From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed May 16 21:31:33 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA30585 for ; Wed, 16 May 2001 21:31:33 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id VAA01292 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 16 May 2001 21:30:40 -0500 Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 21:30:40 -0500 Message-Id: <200105170230.VAA01292@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2229 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, May 16 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2229 In this digest: Re: IN> Man, eveyone's quiet today... IN> Messages to Eli, was Re: Superior Roles: Khalid Re: IN> The Demon of Hard Work Re: IN> Man, eveyone's quiet today... Re: IN> The Demon of Hard Work Re: IN> Man, eveyone's quiet today... Re: IN> Re: Total Chaos 2 Re: IN> Re: Total Chaos 2 Re: IN> Re:Tactics for Armageddon Re: IN> In High School, eh? Re: IN> Re: Total Chaos 2 IN> Re: Dominc's Judgements IN> Re: Hell's Plan for beating Heaven Re: IN> Re: Dissonance conditions for Light. Re: IN> Re: Dominc's Judgements Re: IN> More In Anime works! Re: IN> Stupid Balseraph Tricks Re: IN> A Vignette, of sorts Re: IN> Consider Song Re: IN> Stupid Balseraph Tricks IN> Sea of Oblivion IN> In Anime Movie Trailer IN> What is it about Hellcows? Re: IN> Re: Total Chaos 2 IN> "Falling down" pop. 1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 16:19:08 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Man, eveyone's quiet today... >... usually there's a digest kicking in by now. Odd. Period of mourning for Douglas? >Does anyone think that a Campaign Guide (I can't think >of a better name) full of tried-and-found-useful >mechanics stuff would sell? I'd call it a GM's Toolkit, and I'm not in marketing so therefore have no idea if it'd sell... but I'd buy it. Are you suggesting this be a compilation of suggestions from the list? - -- Casca _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 17:13:52 -0400 From: Daniel Sauve Subject: IN> Messages to Eli, was Re: Superior Roles: Khalid On Wed, 16 May 2001 12:38:31 -0700 (PDT), Maurice Lane wrote: >Clap. > >"...DON'T YOU DARE HANG UP ON ME! I WANT YOU BACK >HERE _NOW_, AND IF YOU THINK THAT I CARE ABOUT YOUR >EXCUSES, WELL... >(pause) >"Good, he's finally out of earshot, the grinning >barbarian. I'll see you at the usual time, usual >place. Try not to keep me guessing who you are this >time, OK?" > >Clap. > >"Umm, boss? You there? Well, we found the Thing, but >it sort of found the Other Thing first, and, well, >could you come up here all quiet-like? > >"And could you bring some tin foil with you?" CLAP. "Please. Just explain this one mission. Why is it so important I give Stephen King this particular pineapple?!" Clap. "Eli. It's 'St.' Issac. Heh. The guys and I where wondering-- you, us, Hugos this year? Dave's up, and it's an idea I helped with..." CLAP. "Meow?" CLAP. "Eli, it's Novi. Thanks for the advice, the roses have never looked better..." CLAP. "This is your third notice, Eli. Walkabout or not, we really need that complete works of the English Language back." CLAP. "No, really, boss-- now the Thing and the Other Thing have gotten into that Dodad you and jean were building..." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 14:27:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> The Demon of Hard Work - --- Cameron McCurry wrote: > Elpaaliah, Habbalah of Death > Demon of Hard Work Heh heh... nice. Although there are probably a few people in Japan who would take issue with the idea of overwork being a bad thing (not that I think it's a good thing, mind). ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 None of your plans for success will work unless you do. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 14:30:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Man, eveyone's quiet today... - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > Does anyone think that a Campaign Guide (I can't think > of a better name) full of tried-and-found-useful > mechanics stuff would sell? Sure... to US. Trouble is, people like us are the only ones buying IN products right now. The problem is universal in the gaming industry; an increasing number of companies and products competing for ever-smaller pieces of a pie that isn't getting any bigger (the growth of PC gaming isn't helping any). What we need is something that grabs attention and brings new people into the hobby. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 None of your plans for success will work unless you do. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 17:43:03 -0400 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN> The Demon of Hard Work > Heh heh... nice. Although there are probably a few > people in Japan who would take issue with the idea of > overwork being a bad thing (not that I think it's a good > thing, mind). Actually, karoshi *is* considered a serious problem out there, but the government and the companies aren't doing much right now to prevent the problem. Pretty fertile ground for a Habbalah like her. Until Maguel catches up to her. -:-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 21:48:29 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Man, eveyone's quiet today... >From: Michael Walton >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: Re: IN> Man, eveyone's quiet today... >Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 14:30:30 -0700 (PDT) > > >--- Maurice Lane wrote: > > Does anyone think that a Campaign Guide (I can't think > > of a better name) full of tried-and-found-useful > > mechanics stuff would sell? > > Sure... to US. Trouble is, people like us are the only >ones buying IN products right now. > The problem is universal in the gaming industry; an >increasing number of companies and products competing for >ever-smaller pieces of a pie that isn't getting any bigger >(the growth of PC gaming isn't helping any). What we need >is something that grabs attention and brings new people >into the hobby. > I don't know about new people but I'd like to see: a 32 page book on the Grigori, telling their true story, with stats for major figures, plot seeds, and ways for players to play Grigori characters a 32 page EPG. Yep, I think 32 pages is about right for this. Just concentrate on the information needed to create characters, with lots of examples, and some discussion of vessels, hearts, and combat in the marches. And dragons. Definitely let people play dragons. a 32 page book on the FarMarches/ethereal domains a 32 book on mortal secret societes, include at least one that neither heaven nor hell really knows much about. scenarios, possibly with pregen characters, that can be picked up and run. (I think this is the best thing for bringing in new players, myself) jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 22:07:40 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Total Chaos 2 >> > Why could he not have the Seraph of War Attunement? >> >>An attunement can only be granted if it matches either the choir or the >>Word >>the angel serves. The only Sword servitors who are capable of accepting >>the >>Seraph of War attunement are Seraphim of the Sword. > >Can someone point me to a page in the book that says this? As far as I >have >seen, as long as the Attunement is unrestricted you can take it. I must >have missed a BIG section. Or is this one of those amazing GURPS rules? > >Alex It did /not/ originate in the GURPS conversion . . . so far as I'm concerned this is another bit of canon sillyness, not unlike the fact that In Canon, humans cannot be granted a Choir/Band attunement unless they have a Force of that Choir/Band affixed to their being. -sigh- *Whatever* It's not like seraphim have cherubim forces, but they /can/ take the cherubim choir attunement of their own Superior . . . what book it was publisehed in, I don't recall . . . CPG?? - -Perry, kfc perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 18:41:34 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: Total Chaos 2 At 1:25 PM +1200 5/16/01, Alex Liddell wrote: >>Actually, it's an SJ ruling from waaaay back, which may or may not have >>made it into the Blue Book. (I didn't do the errata cleanup on the second >>printing, so there were some matters which... didn't get addressed to my >>satisfaction.) I can't get mine at the moment, or I'd check. It did make >>it into GIN, of course, since I _was_ writing on the thing. >> >>Ah, Blue Book... Which the baby is pitching a fit about not being allowed >>to flip through. No, can't see it immediately. So, the FAQ... Good, it is >>alluded to here. > >Just a question then. The errata listing above the one we are talking >about. Does that mean that I *can* give my Malakite of The Sword the Seraph >of War attunement and still have it canon? *looks hopeful* Technically, canonically, yes and no. No in the sense that, in the future, no published character will have that. SJ doesn't like blurring the lines between Choir/Band and Superior like that. (That line you quoted is also contradicted somewhat in the CPG, regarding the need for celestial Forces before getting a Band/Choir Attunement.) Yes in the sense that it's your game, do as you like. >Just so I know, are there any other GURPS IN rules that made it into that >book and NOT the main reprint? Oh, probably. I don't remember them off the top of my head and the baby isn't cooperating, so I can't get them to you at the moment. O:p - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. arcangel is nursing a trout with ARMS! ARMS that reach out and try to pound the keyboard! You say "And teeth. Ow." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 18:41:31 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re:Tactics for Armageddon At 11:13 AM +1100 5/16/01, james walker wrote: >Thanks Beth. I'm busy mulling over most of your points (all of which are >appreciated) but I thought I should answer these: >>>and the other angels are >>>summoned whenever the Angels of Final judgement find a human who shouldn't >>>go to Hell. >> (IMC, the FJ duo just kicked the human... elsewhere. Celestial Motion >> varients and/or Word-based power, anyone?) >They'd have the power (being effectively AA level), but in the vignette in >CPG Yves seems to have done the honours. [Remember that in addition to >moving the human, said human probably needs Infernal attunements stripped]. From what I recall of the CPG vignette, it's still pretty unclear what went on. Maybe they _do_ call Yves to do the honors all the time. Who would notice another old-seeming "human" soul, if he's somehow shielding his Superior nature... O:> Seriously, I think that's likely to be CDaU at best, unless you can find a page citation to contradict it. >>> Thirdly, it isn't part of any Principality so none of the Demon >>>Princes can modify the terrain at will. >> >> Lucifer can. >Yep. Michael would probably give Laurence a pat on the head for encouraging >Lucifer to come out and play. And it's CDaU whether Lucifer has or has not gained enough power to make a rematch.... in doubt. >>>be the Heavenly Judgement attunement. >> >> Remember that it only works on those accused of a crime no less than >> murder; sending in green troops, freshly created, may well _not work_, >> and it would waste 7 Essence a pop. (And it works on a _target_, not >> on a random mass. The Dominican has to pick who he's targeting.) > >Very true - however, any demon who isn't a legitimate target for Heavenly >Judgment nor shows up on Gabriel's Choir Attunements is a good candidate for >redemption, so they'd be worth capturing. A nice way to tie up a lot of people, which is tactically useful -- send a wave of "redeemables" (or at least those who haven't had a _chance_ to do murder+ or be cruel!), watch Heaven devote forces to capturing them (fill their heads with BalProp of what the angels will do with demons!), and then devote more time and energy to redeeming them. Then, after you've done that, send in the next wave of real stinkers. >Also, working with Malakim of >Laurence and other Dominicans, they should be able to detect legitimate >targets without burning the essence. But it will still burn _time_ -- which you don't have in a combat situation. So they burn Essence the first few times, or they don't get a _chance_ to fill the air with flying Swords of Judgment before the second wave is upon them. Or the first, for that matter. >>>, they're also gaining Tethers, as any >>>Tether which would have been contested becomes theirs by default. >> Not necessarily -- all that disturbance would probably disrupt the forming >> Tethers when they send a "feeler" into their Hellside potential. >Good Point. Still, preventing Hell from getting tethers is the most >important thing. Mayhap. And you're assuming that distance is not subject to Lucifer's whim.... >>>So, sorry about the length of this post. Any obvious flaws? >> >> Besides the ones mentioned above, I think there's one major one: >> Lucifer. What's _he_ up to, hm? (You're also underestimating the >> tactical effects of Dark Desire, considering the typically weak Will >> of angels; Prank is good for a lot of confusion but is Per-resisted. >> Factions' [etc] >Yes. I was only trying to work through what Laurence's battle plan is likely >to be. Working through how 16+ DP's are responding would have tripled the >length of the post! True -- but while that might be the _plan_ -- it wouldn't tidy things up all that neatly, because it doesn't take into account the "non-combatants" in Lust, Dark Humor, etc. And if the rumor in S2 is at _all_ known to Laurence, he _ought_ to worry what would happen if the first wave of demons hit just as Andrealphus was doing his Mass Orgy (expanded verson of Dark Desire) attunement at the angelic ranks. (Yeah, Ethereal Shields should stop it. And you're going to be able to get them up in time? For sure?) One miscalculation in there, and you've got a huge blunder that's going to horribly weaken Heaven and Heaven's morale. (Andrealphus and Baal working together? Heck, yeah -- if angels are knocking down the gates. Andre would bow the neck to the experienced military commander for the duration... (See S2, relations/relationships for implicit corroboration of that assumption.) - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. arcangel is nursing a trout with ARMS! ARMS that reach out and try to pound the keyboard! You say "And teeth. Ow." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 22:27:00 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> In High School, eh? >*looks over at Daiv* I told you In Nomine/TFOS could be done. Seriously >though, this is beautiful. It was a lying-in-bed-after-waking-up thought. I'd been thinking about a brief series of IN >adventures set around a local high school, but this just works. Just works? do you mean works just as well or . . . I was thinking about having Superiors as Parents, but . . . with the general anti-parental authority that a High School game would have, it didn't sit well with me. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 18:51:46 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: Total Chaos 2 At 10:07 PM -0400 5/16/01, Perry Lloyd wrote: >*Whatever* It's not like seraphim have cherubim forces, but they /can/ take >the cherubim choir attunement of their own Superior . . . It's a grid. An attunement, to stick, requires the nature of the being to harmonize with it. So you can _EITHER_ be bound to the same Word as the attunement comes from, OR be of the same nature as what it's meant for. So, a Seraph of War can take: War Choir Attunements and Seraph Choir Attunements. His nature resonantes well enough with the Word of War (because he's bound to it) to give him access to all those that are not restricted. He's a Seraph, so his nature resonantes well enough with all Seraph Choir Attunements to take _those_. But he's not a Malakite, so he can't have Malakite of X attunement save those of War. Yves Masters are a weird case upon which I don't feel like expounding. That's the logic for it in-game. The logic for it out of game is that taking things that don't pertain to your nature at all homogenizes angels (and demons) such that they don't have fun little distinctive bits. Especially for the Creationers. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 09:21:50 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re: Dominc's Judgements > But yet another is > that Dominic was simply applying the principle of guilt by association, > or as we were told in Basic Training, "If one of you screws you, you ALL > screwed up!", as justification for group punishments. He could, except that collective punishment is forbidden by the Old Testament; now that he's accepted Christianity is can't do so. Of course, the judgement on the Grigori was before that - I wonder if that causes him any sleepless nights? James. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 09:32:19 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re: Hell's Plan for beating Heaven > Actually, I always wondered how they intended to conquer Heaven in the first > place. Yeah, the Light of Heaven is a bit of a killer. However, it is strongest in the Loci of Tethers; destroying all of Heaven's Tethers [by trashing the planet] may cause it slowly fade. Of course, Kobal is probably laughing his head off, "You mean, you're depending on the Light of Heaven to hold off the armies of the Lightbringer?" That probably worries a few (Arch)angels. After all, no-one could know what the Light of Heaven did to demons until Lilith broke the demons out of Hell. Suppose that Lucifer created the effect to enforce his order that no demons are to go to Heaven? if nothing else, it makes redemptions harder. James. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 19:59:14 -0400 From: Mike Bruner Subject: Re: IN> Re: Dissonance conditions for Light. >>>DISSONANCE >>> Angels of Light cannot promote darkness -- either >>>literally or metaphorically. They would no more extinguish >>>a light source than they would allow ignorance to go >>>unchallenged. Not interfering with natural cycles of light >>>and darkness is alright, as is letting a temporary light >>>source expire naturally. It is Dissonant for these angels >>>to learn (let alone use) the Songs of Shadows or to give >>>out false information. >> >> Uh, I can forsee some silliness with this one. For one thing, never give >> one of these guys a flashlight; he'd have to wait until the batteries run >> out! And if this doesn't just apply to their actions but those of others, >> we have the real reason there are so few of them; all a demon has to do to >> make one Fall is flip a light switch up and down a dozen or so times (or >> for the Kobalites among us, use a strobe light and watch the angel go >> "AHHHHH!" "Whew!" "AHHHH!" "Whew!" "AHHH!" under the strobe :)). And God >> help them with their power bill; turn on a light and you can never, ever >> turn it off! Maybe if they use a night light? :) >Two points. >Firstly, the minor one: turning a torch or other artificial light on or off >IS it's natural cycle. You're not snuffing it out; on the contrary letting >the battery run dead is. Say what? I'd think "extinguishing a light source" as written pretty much includes turning off a flashlight, especially since the description mentions it's OK to let a "temporary light source extinguish naturally" (which pretty much says it is NOT alright to extinguish it any other way). >Secondly, and far more importantly, so what? These dissonance conditions >haven't been changed since long before the Fall. They aren't designed for >either a technological society OR to resist being twisted by demons. >Probably most of the AA's modified their dissonance conditions after the >Fall once they realised that demons would seek to pervert them, but there >had never been a need to do so before. If the angel doesn't like it, they >should sign up with another AA - the way Dominic would want them to. Would Dominic by happy then if they sign up with Eli and avoid the dissonance question altogether? :) Seriously, though, I raise this point because if you make it too easy to give these guys dissonance there's no logical way any of them would survive into the present without being confined to Heaven (and thus fairly worthless from a game perspective). Admittedly, I'm not sure what else to give them; my main ideas keep coming out too much like Litheroy's dissonance conditions (which might make sense; one wonders if Revelation was elevated to Archangel to at least in part fill in the gap left by Lucifer's departure (sure, it took 'em until 325 to do it, but maybe they kept on holding out hoping Lucy would change his mind before then :))). - -- Mike Bruner-- bruner@delaware.infi.net It takes all kinds of people to make a world, but did you ever think the percentages were wrong? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 19:05:28 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Re: Dominc's Judgements james walker wrote: > He could, except that collective punishment is forbidden by the Old > Testament; Dominic isn't bound by the Old Testament. > now that he's accepted Christianity is can't do so. Even if Dominic was a Christian (which he isn't necessarily -- he just considers Christianity to be a Good Thing), that wouldn't make him a Biblical literalist. For that matter, an argument could be made that Biblical laws are for humans, who need them, not angels. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 20:45:22 -0400 From: Mike Bruner Subject: Re: IN> More In Anime works! > From: "Charles Phipps" > > > > Laurence: Cast in the name of God ye are EXTREMELY guilty. > > No, Charles, Laurence wouldn't be piloting Big O. > > Remember who Heaven's Negotiator is? ;;;) I'm not sure whether to be pleased or horrified that I got ALL the references here (I supposed pleased, given my pride in my general slide towards otaku-hood these days). I gotta admit Big O isn't exactly Laurence's style; now Escaflowne, on the other hand... :) - -- Mike Bruner-- bruner@delaware.infi.net It takes all kinds of people to make a world, but did you ever think the percentages were wrong? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 21:02:25 -0400 From: Mike Bruner Subject: Re: IN> Stupid Balseraph Tricks >>It would be quite risky, at least in any game I ran. "Okay, you convince >>the Malakite that he broke his oath. He immediately makes a Perception roll >>to notice the rather obvious piece of physical evidence that he didn't (his >>lack of dissonance). He succeeds. Take a note of dissonance." > >I don't think dissonance shows up physically (as opposed to Discord, which >often does). But I'm quite sure that any angel, let alone a Malakite, would >notice whether or not he was dissonant. (Demons might not notice >immediately, and Calabim might *never* notice.) Actually, that's an interesting question here; WOULD an angel who's never taken dissonance before KNOW what happened? After all, in Heaven taking dissonance would be practically impossible for most angels to contemplate, much less do; it's on the corporeal plane that they really face a serious threat of it. Heck, until Lucifer angels didn't even know you COULD violate your nature. Maybe a young Malakite just out of Heaven might not realize he's not dissonant, or at least takes a few seconds to figure out something's wrong (or rather, something's NOT wrong). Of course IIRC Archangels can inflict dissonance as well as remove it, so maybe new servitors being sent to Earth have a point inflicted then removed so they know what to worry about; Novalis probably wouldn't be so cruel, and Laurence might consider it too dishonorable (given he's never experienced a note of dissonance in his existence, forcing another to might feel wrong), but I could certainly see David and Michael at least doing it so the angel knows what happened if it occurs on Earth. - -- Mike Bruner-- bruner@delaware.infi.net It takes all kinds of people to make a world, but did you ever think the percentages were wrong? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 21:11:56 -0400 From: Jonathan Walton Subject: Re: IN> A Vignette, of sorts Something along these same lines ... I was flipping through the Gospel of Thomas the other day, in the middle of studying for one of my exams, when I came across the 42nd Saying of Jesus in the book, something that I thought was deliciously appropriate as both "The Answer to the Ultimate Question of ... Etc." and as Jesus' words to the hitchhiker. It also happens to be the shortest and, in my opinion, most beautiful Jesus quote in existence. Ahem ... " Saying 42. Jesus said, 'Become wanderers.' " Like I said, delicious :) Jonathan Walton World Weavers In Nomine Deus Ex Machina: Steampunk In Nomine PBeM Tattered Symphony Netbook Project ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 15:17:25 -0700 From: "Phillip" Subject: Re: IN> Consider Song > Another example, of course, is the Grigori. The whole Choir got Outcast > for the crimes of some of them. One interpretation is that all the > Grigori really were guilty. Another is the one you cited from the Book > of Enoch, where they swore an oath to stand together. But yet another is > that Dominic was simply applying the principle of guilt by association, > or as we were told in Basic Training, "If one of you screws you, you ALL > screwed up!", as justification for group punishments. Something that > definitely feels unfair to the group that's punished, but it does serve > the purpose of justice -- depending on what kind of justice you're > administering. Dominic looks at one of the men, "You have been judged guilty of the crime of Murder. It is the decision of the court that your punishment be death." He then looks at the other, "And you are his brother. Though youu have done nothing wrong, I feel that to be certain you, too, must be put to death." Seriously, I don't think that guilt by association qualifies as Just, and I don't think Dominic would think so either. Phillip, Angel of Reinventing The Wheel ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 18:25:33 -0700 From: "Phillip" Subject: Re: IN> Stupid Balseraph Tricks I dunno. I always figured Dissonance to be a more overt thing for angels; it carries with it a sense of inner violation that they simply cannot ignore. They have defied their nature and it shows. Well, that's how I see it, anyway. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 01:39:18 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Sea of Oblivion http://www.geocities.com/blakestorm/ anyone else see this?? check out his In Nomine, the Alternate In Nomine universe in particular . . . damn . . . - -Perry, Kfc perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 21:55:12 -0400 From: "S.D." Subject: IN> In Anime Movie Trailer Hmm. On the subject of In Anime, I just had a *strange* idea. Opinions? ~S.D. Ryukage *** (Image: Blandine, wearing a fencing uniform, stares down at a rose-shaped locket. An image of Beleth, looking away, is within.) (VOICEOVER/BLANDINE: "...there are no such things in this world as miracles.") (Image: Jean, seated at a piano. Eli leans over, listening.) (VOICEOVER/JEAN: "In that garden...I realize that all of my happiness rested in that garden. But...But...I ruined it. I ruined it all by myself!") (Image: Dominic, in psuedomilitary uniform, bends Lilith backward...and draws Laurence's sword from her chest.) (VOICEOVER/DOMINIC: "For the Redemption of the World!") (Image: Michael, holding a notebook with Judgement's Seal on the cover. He tosses it into the incinerator.) (VOICEOVER/MICHAEL : "After all, what are friends for?") (Image: Eli, dressed in a vaguely military outfit, white wings mantled behind him, dances with Lilith, in a surprisingly elegant gown.) (VOICEOVER/ELI: "Someday...someday, the two of us...") (Image: Andrealphus, driving a car at Ofanite-like speeds down a long tunnel, neon-lit along the sides. (VOICEOVER/ANDREALPHUS: "In the temple that is Shal-Mari...blasphemy is holy and sin is divine.") (The logo, title written in elegant angelic script, dissolves into being) REDEMPTION'S ANGEL ELI STARRING BLANDINE as JURI ARISUGAWA BELETH as SHIORI TAKATSUKI JEAN as MIKI KAORU RAPHAEL as KOZUE KAORU DOMINIC as KYOUICHI SAIONJI KOBAL as WAKABA SHINOHARA MICHAEL as TOUGA KIRYUU NOVALIS as NANAMI KIRYUU LAURENCE as DIOS LILITH as ANTHY HIMEMIYA ANDREALPHUS as AKIO OHTORI and ELI as UTENA TENJOU Coming soon, to a theater near you. (VOICEOVER/LILITH: "For the Salvation of the World.") ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 19:09:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> What is it about Hellcows? ...I keep seeing examples of them*, ever since I wrote up Prince Ronald. Weird. I think that I should do a page, or something. Anyway, this comes from my girlfriend: this is her interpretation of one of Ronald's Vampire Hellcows: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine/other/cow1.jpg http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine/other/cow2.jpg The fangs aren't bloody enough, but she says that she's going to work on it. :) Moe "I am an extremely lucky man" Lane *Cow. ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/29/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 22:21:56 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Total Chaos 2 >From: Elizabeth McCoy > >That's the logic for it in-game. I would think, though, that having a Word might allow for a case of rule-bending, if the attunement meshes well with the Word. Sort of like adding another dimensional grid. - -- Casca _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 22:31:03 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> "Falling down" pop. 1 Tether to Nightmares Double Mountains Asylum "Falling Down" is the name of a mythical town where prisoner Johnathan Drake believed he was being held prisoner by "them" in order to cover up what he knew about the world. The man's routine nightmares about torture and degredation were so incredibly strong that when he somehow managed to acquire a shotgun he managed to kill five doctors and three nurses before killing himself. In truth the place was actually a tether to Blandine which had a remarkable sucess ratio in curing the afflicted of their difficulties but the incident was enough along with litigation that shut the place down due to these "atrocities" to not only eradicate the tether whose seneschal was in trauma but shift it's location to Beleth's side of the Marches. The seneschal placed there by Beleth was in charge not only of maintaining the tether against the possibility of Blandine returning it to her area of the Marches but also given private reign to pursue his experiments in her name for finding the secret origins of the Soul. Corporeal Corporally Blandine while mourning the loss of her tether hasn't yet had time to notice that it has been actually taken up by her arch-rival Beleth or if it was it has long since lost it's power because the period it was shut down was extensive and the new staff transferred into it showed a similar sucess ratio as Blandine's previous tether in transforming the violently insane into decent hardworking and compassionate folk. Simply put she was far too busy to probe into the matter with the kind of effectiveness that would have revealed the very dark underbelly of Double Mountains asylum. Patients of Double Mountains asylum it is true still include a large number of child molesters, murderers, and the schizophrenic but it has a remarkable sucess ratio in transforming them within a matter of years into people who aside from a distant past commited terrible things seem very rational "normal folk" but if Blandine's investigators would have included an elohim they would have noticed that they live lives of never-ending living terror with every shadow, smile, and bush they see holding some image of absolute shattering horror. They believe they are normal and well adjusted indeed but that is because they have been trained and conditioned to know that "He" is responsible for everything in their lives and "He" will make sure that this pleasant lifestyle they're living is taken away at any point if they do not obey. Double Mountains asylum is currently offering mild cases of delusion and other "lesser known" insanities but insists that the type of specialized treatment that they provide requires for the most part a serious commitment of individuals completely to their care. While the state is always suspicious of people who like they're privacy with medical treatments the results have kept for the most part investigators in line and nothing seems to be wrong with the quiet staid clinic that seems to be researching ways to better control phobias and other mental difficulties with roleplaying. Johnathan Drake's cell has also since been turned into the chief of staff's office. The Ethereal Marches It is in the marches where the true form of Double Mountains asylum comes into play as the place lies deeply within Beleth's side of the Marches with virtually every dreamscape of every patient and former patient lying in and around the tether's grounds. Roaming the halls include calabim with a djinn in orderly outfits and a great number of nightmarish ethereals who patrol the grounds of the asylum and have been dreamed to revere "He" and He's mistress "She" as a goddess. These ethereals unlike most are completely loyal to Hell and have almost no possibility for redemption because they're very existence is subveriant to darker base impulses. It is believed that Beleth intends to start "manufacturing" these footsoldiers a bit more for aiding her armies against Blandine and Dreams. The incredibly terrifying part to anyone who understands the word of dreams is that a great deal of the dreamscapes present though by far not all of them appear perfectly normal with children, future homes, and cute little animals like any children. Westerns, Space operas, and all the rest of the typical dreams of humanity actually managed to fool the investigators checking the dreamscapes of the patients who did it only curosory. The problem is these "normal" dreams are as horrible to the patients as any and though they play the part with gusto this is mainly because they know if they don't they will suffer something much much worse. The process of "breaking" makes heavy use of this including heavy use of the celestial song of dreams to make sure drugged patients are unable to distinguish between fantasy and reality and even use of a Belethian version of "Healing Dream" to completely switch and rewrite patients histories in order to bend their understanding that they are even living a corporeal existence away from the dreams they live or that such an existence is the "real one" as opposed to one in 24th century Europe. More traditional dreams of horror in the time of the Inquisition, hunted by monsters, and the excalibration of childhood and adult traumas are all made use of as well. The main area of Double Mountains and the tether's locus is the Cell of Johnathan Drake which produced the town of Falling Down proper that is where souls judged "suitable" are mixed and allowed to engage in strange games and information sharing along with disguised orderlies as fellow souls using the celestial song of form though souls corrupted to betrayal are of course far more common given the costs of such "experiments". The town contains a great number of things which are represenative of areas of the mind including the Library of Ignorant Knowledge, the Glade of Tranquility and Narcotic flowers, the Trading Towers of Id, and the Superego Church of Hypocrisy. The resembelance to a specific areas on certain planes of existence is not coincidental. "Special Cases" have finally at last been approved as gifts from Beleth and she has made it a point to capture several angels alive to see what the seneschal of the tether can do with them and while he's only had a few such "gifts" he has a ninety percent sucess ratio thus far in making them fall including one case in which actually convinced a Mercurian a bank he was finally freed in was inhabited entirely by demons.....it is the Chief of Staff's "professional" rivalry with Lucretia the Demon of Brainwashing to be the first one to cause a Malakim to fall. Seneschal Absalom Pachadim Baron of Screams (working on a Promotion to Count of Unreality) Seneschal of "Falling Down" Corporeal- 1 Strength 2 Agility 2 Ethereal- 5 Intelligence 10 Precision 10 Celestial- 6 Will 12 Perception 12 Vessel: Human 2/ (Chr +3) Role: Chief of Staff "Double Mountains" Hospital 4/ Skills: Artistry (Set Design) 5/, Emote 4/, Detect Lies/6, Interrogation 5/, Lying 5/, Medicine (Psychology)/6, Savoir Fair/4, Torture 2/ Songs: Attraction (Ethereal 3/), Charm (Corporeal 3/, Ethereal 3/, Celestial 5/), Dreams (Corporeal 6/, Ethereal 6/, Celestial 6/), Form (Celestial 3/), Harmony (Corporeal 2/, Ethereal 3/, Celestial 4/) Attunements: Calabim of Nightmares, Impudite of Nightmares, Habbalah of Nightmares, Dream Joining, Nightmare Trigger, Torturing Nightmare, Terror, Knight of Restlessness, Baron of Screams Special Attunements: False Feedback: This new ability allows Absalom to cause any angel currently in the area of Falling Down or the Asylum to recieve false information from his resonance whether a subject reads as completely honorable or a lie as the truth and vice versa. This ability touches at the very core of what it means to be an angel and has broken the sanity of many who have been trapped in Falling down. Delusion: This ability forces a dreamer to act fully the part of a being outlined by Absalom with a sucessful will roll until a full day has passed or he sucessfully resists the beings titanic and awesome will. Thus far no mortal has suceeded in overcomming Absalom's desires for him to play a part and many angels cannot either given they are unused to facing demons so fully confident in their own symphony. While "possesed" they act somewhat like they were if under the control of a Shedim though the personality can be benign like Mother Mary or vile like Jack the Ripper or Hitler. A new will roll is allowed every time they are required to do something by the roll they would not normally do but the Doctor has no need to be present for them to continue to "live it" as long as they are in the tether. "He who is Everywhere": He who is everywhere is the Doctor's Pet name for the Fact that he can telepathically read the minds of everyone who enters the tether whether visitors or patients and communicate with them as well. This ability is automatic and simply put everything thought is processed through the Doctor's mind with no difficulty whatsoever. Imagery can also be sent with little difficulty and while these are not hallucinations they are very powerful to the weak mind who cannot understand he is not percieving his own thoughts. Special Rites: * Get a prisoner of Falling Down to fully submit to you (+2) * Produce an ethereal nightmare through your ministrations at Falling down (+1) Word Forces: 15-16 Absalom is a very old Pachadim who personally was well alive during the Fall and chose to follow his mistress Beleth into Hell because of jealousy that she would be Blandine's and Lucifers but he a mere fragment of her soul could never hope to win her "love". It is this feeling of inadequacy which led him for many centuries to explore Beleth's side of the Marches and conduct a great deal of personal and private experimentation into the nature of the soul, human mind, and how the body reacted with both in order to perhaps supply a reason or more precisley a cure for why he was so weak in the grand scheme of things and why humans were equally so compared to him. His work won him attention long ago from Beleth but the mistress of Nightmares always wary of affection routinely banished him to darker and debased duties that for years left him berift of anything approaching powerful or even favored status. Still Absalom perservered and he came to know in his heart that you didn't have to have terrible omnimorphic monsters to scare a mortal to death or dark lights or bizzare shapes or traumas in childhood. Those were common enough among mortals without demons and unoriginal. In truth you had to go deeper to what causes these things to terrify in the fact that human powerlessness and desire to be safe were the motivators of fear and the latter could be used to terrify just as much as the fear of being not so. If a demon could make sure a mortal is constantly aware that his pretty baubles, beutiful spouse, or favorite toy is able to be removed with just a thought having and striving for that thing becomes just as much of a nightmare as watching it destroyed or despair as never getting it. That Absalom was the key to Blandine's final defeat and the destruction of dreams forever....and his very at heart petty revenge against a woman who stole the heart of his beloved before he was even born. Double Mountains asylum came during one of his annual walkabouts through the Nightmare regions and discovered that one particular dreamscape was actually dragging forward one of Blandine's tethers dangerously close to the Nightmare Marches and managing to secure a vessel with a role that could survive angelic background checks he used his theories to drive Johnathan Drake over the edge even as several friends in the game who had made use of his interrogation methods in the past put an end to the tether's operating liscense with Absalom's "State turned evidence". Once the tether was secured he has since turned it into a sort of gigantic laboratory for his research into the soul and the sheer power of the fear he's managed to invoke with his well meaning staff (now all damned to Hell because they're fates were led to with the best of intentions) in both realms has made the one hundred year old asylum one of Beleth's most powerful tethers. Absalom himself has currently devoted himself fully to the prospects of acquiring a Malakim (of course such things are among the most expensive commodities in Hell) after he managed to turn the only one he's ever acquired dark before it commited suicide. The Pachadim is certain that Lucifer has visited his asylum and is sure that the next Malakim he acquires he can trick, restrain, and debase to the point he can finally have his heart shattered though he's aware such an endeavor requires inordinate ammounts of preparation (the whole heart locator thing) and his amazingly large ammount of competition in forcing a virtue to Fall including Lucretia, Kronos, and every demon who believes it is their swift ticket to a Princedom. Absalom knows though that if he suceeds Lucifer will crown him the Prince of Madness and Beleth looking upon him will finally accept him as her spouse...and together they can destroy Blandine. After such...who knows for the man who knows the Soul and Fears of Even God might someday supplant the Unholiest of Unholies. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2229 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.