From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri May 18 09:42:40 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA32320 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 09:42:39 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id JAA09084 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 18 May 2001 09:41:24 -0500 Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 09:41:24 -0500 Message-Id: <200105181441.JAA09084@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2232 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, May 18 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2232 In this digest: Re: IN> Pudding Words (Not joking. Honest) Re: IN> Man, eveyone's quiet today... IN> Whee, yet more IN questions. ^_^;; Re: IN> In Anime Movie Trailer Re: IN> In Anime Movie Trailer Re: IN> Whee, yet more IN questions. ^_^;; IN> Hell's plan for beating Heaven epilogue IN> Falling down pop 1 Re: IN> Whee, yet more IN questions. ^_^;; Re: IN> In Anime Movie Trailer IN> Re: The Unredeemable. IN> Re: Armageddon - the Tac Sim. IN> Re: Stuff we want Re: IN> No need for Laurence Re: IN> No need for Laurence Re: IN> Re: Tactics of Armageddon Re: IN> Whee, yet more IN questions. ^_^;; IN> In Nomine Backwards or Low Contrast Re: IN> In Nomine Backwards or Low Contrast Re: IN> In Nomine Backwards or Low Contrast ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 14:51:41 -0700 From: "Phillip" Subject: Re: IN> Pudding Words (Not joking. Honest) > Nah. Check out "Touched by an Angel" canon -- Bill Cosby > is the primary Vessel of the Angel of Fun (IMHO, a > Creationer IST whoever Johab's Superior is). Is it possible that maybe Bill Cosby is a real human, but both the Angel of Fun and the Demon of Pudding had made vessels to copy him? I dunno, it was just a strange thought that entered my head. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 15:32:27 -0700 From: Daiv Subject: Re: IN> Man, eveyone's quiet today... i was hoping to make it, but the lack of a job, a friends wedding that weekend, and my wife birthday all adds up to a lot of money needed in a very short time. Still, we may try for a one day affair, sunday. have to wait and see what happen. Look for a geek in an RTFM t shirt, that may well be me. - -daiv Michael Walton wrote: > > --- Whistling in the Dark wrote: > > Speaking of which -- anyone planning to be at Baycon in a > > week? It's > > my official extravagence, flying out to the west coast > > and enjoying movies projected on the wall poolside. > > Wish I had the fundage, but that's not happening. My > wife and I are doing our duty by the gene pool, and the > prototype's due to be unveiled in December. Cuts way down > on my purchases of IN products, I can tell you. :( > > ===== > Michael Walton, #9805-068 > None of your plans for success will work > unless you do. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 19:01:47 -0400 From: "S.D." Subject: IN> Whee, yet more IN questions. ^_^;; First off, are there any canon Bright Lilim attunements yet? If so, could someone e-mail the details of what they do? (general mechanics, plus point values if any are like, say, Nybbas' Band attunements or Asmodeus'.) Secondly, well...I'm currently very interested in getting into a game (as PC, not GM.) But to do it as tabletop (as far as I know), I'd have to wait till the upcoming *autumn*, *minimum.* So, does anyone know of either A: a currently-running online game (PBEM, chatroom-facilitated, or other) that'd accept a new player B: a not-yet-started online game/a GM that's looking for PCs At the moment, I'd do normal or Alter-IN (I'd prefer to see the details on the second type, though.) Thanks in advance. ~S.D. Ryukage http://fly.to/sd_nexus ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ And God said The reason had hung from the tree But I feel the reason Hanging on me I am free of my innocence Falling too far I am helpless to change I am hopelessly lost I am all that you are 'Adam and Eve', October Project (I swear, this is practically the Lilim/Lilith Theme Song... ^_^;; ) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 02:26:11 -0500 From: "John Walter Biles" Subject: Re: IN> In Anime Movie Trailer On 17 May 01, at 14:49, S.D. wrote: > >But better, I think to do Laurence/Michael, or better...Laurence/Khalid > >as Saionji/Touga > > Ooh. I *like* that second one. But Laurence pretty much *needs* to stay as > Dios. I'm *not* getting rid of the sword connection unless I have an > *extremely* good reason. > How about because Dios and Akio happen to be the same being? :) In unfallen/fallen state... > >> (Image: Eli, dressed in a vaguely military outfit, white wings mantled > >> behind him, dances with Lilith, in a surprisingly elegant gown.) > >> > >> (VOICEOVER/ELI: "Someday...someday, the two of us...") > > > >Eli doesn't strike me as being even a teensy tiny bit like Utena in any > >way. > > > >I'd say Zadkiel myself, as Utena is certainly a protector. > > Don't know Zadkiel; can't say. > > I was thinking Eli for a couple reasons. One, there are quite a few > referances to the fact that he *might* be Falling online, and a few in > what supplements I've read. Thus, his future alignment is unknown - like > Utena. Both sides want him to stay/join up with them, IMO. > > Two, remember, Utena's the one who will bring the world Revolution. She's > also the Duelist who's still the most 'human', IMO. Who better to > represent her than a member of the most human non-Outcast Choir, who is > also effectively the most human Archangel? And the word of Creation is the > only one that struck me as...*powerful* enough to represent Utena's power. > Yes, but Eli's response to the duels would be to have Lillith jump in his car with him and they'd go cruising looking for a party, leaving the morons behind to play their little games. There goes the whole show... :) > >I'd add Malphas as Mikage (He's in the second set of 13 episodes, doesn't > > show up in the first thirteen) > > I recognize Mikage. I know the whole series. (That's part of my reasoning > for other characters - I can *not* see Blandine as Shiori during the BRA > or the Ruka thing...) But Malphas doesn't fit with my conception of > Mikage...and who'd be Nemuro? Or Mamiya? Or *Tokiko*? Malphas isn't > emotionally tied to *anyone* who'd fit those last two. Mikage's whole modus operandi is corrupting people by turning them against others, preferably someone they have a deep emotional bond to. That screams 'Shedim' and 'Factions' to me. Although I admit I can't think of who could be Mamiya to Malphas. But then, hardly any of the Demon Princes have anyone close enough to them to play that role. John Walter Biles : MA-History, ABD, Ph.D Candidate at U. Kansas ranma@falcon.cc.ukans.edu http://www.dkcomm.net/rhea/falcon.html rhea@maison-otaku.net http://maison-otaku.net/~rhea/ "That all princes shall kiss the foot of the Pope alone."--Dictatus Papae, 11th century ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 19:28:27 -0400 From: "S.D." Subject: Re: IN> In Anime Movie Trailer >> >But better, I think to do Laurence/Michael, or better...Laurence/Khalid >> >as Saionji/Touga >> >> Ooh. I *like* that second one. But Laurence pretty much *needs* to stay as >> Dios. I'm *not* getting rid of the sword connection unless I have an >> *extremely* good reason. >> >How about because Dios and Akio happen to be the same being? :) In >unfallen/fallen state... Well, true. But who'd replace Laurence if I made him Saionji/Touga? >> >> (Image: Eli, dressed in a vaguely military outfit, white wings mantled >> >> behind him, dances with Lilith, in a surprisingly elegant gown.) >> >> >> >> (VOICEOVER/ELI: "Someday...someday, the two of us...") >> > >> >Eli doesn't strike me as being even a teensy tiny bit like Utena in any >> >way. >> > >> >I'd say Zadkiel myself, as Utena is certainly a protector. >> >> Don't know Zadkiel; can't say. >> >> I was thinking Eli for a couple reasons. One, there are quite a few >> referances to the fact that he *might* be Falling online, and a few in >> what supplements I've read. Thus, his future alignment is unknown - like >> Utena. Both sides want him to stay/join up with them, IMO. >> >> Two, remember, Utena's the one who will bring the world Revolution. She's >> also the Duelist who's still the most 'human', IMO. Who better to >> represent her than a member of the most human non-Outcast Choir, who is >> also effectively the most human Archangel? And the word of Creation is the >> only one that struck me as...*powerful* enough to represent Utena's power. >> >Yes, but Eli's response to the duels would be to have Lillith jump in his >car with him and they'd go cruising looking for a party, leaving the >morons behind to play their little games. There goes the whole show... :) ...probably, yeah. ^_^;; Any suggestions besides Zadkiel or Eli? >> >I'd add Malphas as Mikage (He's in the second set of 13 episodes, doesn't >> > show up in the first thirteen) >> >> I recognize Mikage. I know the whole series. (That's part of my reasoning >> for other characters - I can *not* see Blandine as Shiori during the BRA >> or the Ruka thing...) But Malphas doesn't fit with my conception of >> Mikage...and who'd be Nemuro? Or Mamiya? Or *Tokiko*? Malphas isn't >> emotionally tied to *anyone* who'd fit those last two. > >Mikage's whole modus operandi is corrupting people by turning them against >others, preferably someone they have a deep emotional bond to. That >screams 'Shedim' and 'Factions' to me. Ah, but would Factions leave Tatsuya alone, just because he put Wakaba above himself? I doubt that. >Although I admit I can't think of who could be Mamiya to Malphas. But >then, hardly any of the Demon Princes have anyone close enough to them to >play that role. Doesn't necessarily have to be someone close to 'Mikage'. *Tokiko* has to be someone close to him/her/it at some point, preferably before 'Mikage' Fell (if he/she/it did.) Mamiya has to be someone with *some* ties to 'Mikage'-as-AA/DP, preferably with a close connection to 'Tokiko' and Lilith as well, and also plausibly manipulating 'Mikage'. (Asmodeus or Kronos might work...) [beat] ... [starts laughing head off] I just had the *strangest* mental image, and I don't know why. Mamiya... ...played by *Lucifer.* *FEAR*. ^_^ ~S.D. Ryukage http://fly.to/sd_nexus ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ He died, leaving only an angel of vengeance that was herself to enact retribution. Saotome Ranma-chan on Saotome Ranma-kun, 'Sunrise' (Hmm. Fallen Habbalite, anyone? ^_^) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 20:36:33 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Whee, yet more IN questions. ^_^;; At 7:01 PM -0400 5/17/01, S.D. wrote: >First off, are there any canon Bright Lilim attunements yet? Yes. They are listed in the Superiors books for the given Superiors, and in FotM. They are all considered restricted. (If you dig around in the INC, you can find prototypes of them, which are pretty close to what got in, as I didn't have many Better Ideas when I did up the Brights for that book. I think Khalid's got in that way too, with some alterations.) No point values given in GIN terms, I fear. They ought to generally be guesstimatable from existing attunement costs. >Secondly, well...I'm currently very interested in getting into a game (as PC, >not GM.) But to do it as tabletop (as far as I know), I'd have to wait till the >upcoming *autumn*, *minimum.* So, does anyone know of either Brass & Steel is around. It's a MU*, IN themed. At the least, you might meet some more chatroom-friendly potential players/GMs. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 20:34:43 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Hell's plan for beating Heaven epilogue Niptick, Count of Battle Plan Flaws: Ummm Lord Baal what will do about the Light of Heaven? Baal: Do? What do mean do? Niptick: Well theres all this bright light which will stop us from taking Heaven.... Baal: Your saying a bit of discord an hour is enough to dissaude you from slaughtering angels in the streets? Niptick: Well yes...no...ummm. Baal: With Michael, David, Novalis, indeed all of the Archangels wiped out and the majority of Heaven levelled in an intense campaign the Light of Heaven is a very small small small small worry for the surviving VERY powerful demon princes who can remove it at will. Especially given the damned will be immune to such. When everyone is dead then God will march up the hills to Jacob's ladder and HE will dim the light for us. Niptick: But what if he doesn't!? Baal: Well what if he suddenly decides he's not letting us win and blasts us all out of existence by tommorow! Niptick: Ummmm.... Baal: I swear either God is omnipotent and neutral in this war letting us duke it out to prove whose right which I *KNOW* is right or there is the WILD off chance or God is weakened immensely by spreading his essence so thin that eradicating all the angels will leave us an enemy who can be defeated...abeit it might require a great deal more preparation and a united front given the possibility he's been absorbing all human souls entering the Higher heavens preparing for this day. It is still a victory he must eventually cower too. Niptick: Well theres the third option that he is allowing us to fight in hopes of our redemption. *Baal blasts Niptick back into his base forces* Baal: Okay anybody ELSE have any objections? - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 20:48:47 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Falling down pop 1 >Nice: it's got the potential to be scary-scary or >funny-scary, depending on how one wants to play it. Yeah that's the way I wanted to play it. A place named after "Twin peaks" which was created by the actions of the man who was reputed to be the character of No. 6 from the "Prisoner" (Danger Man's main actor) with the master being a man whose commiting all these bizzare mental atrocities in hopes of winning the heart of the most heartless woman in existence. I'd hate to see what he'd do to some demons. Habbalah: I admit it now...I'm not an angel.... Balseraph: Okay Okay I'm a liar, geez! >Of course, it's going to get vaporized once the Order >of the Eternal Sword finds out about it*, but it's >amazing how often the Deus Ex Machina Squads don't >find out about things until after PCs have had a >chance to try all the rides. :) Well I'm not so sure about that actually Moe, though what you say about the PC's is true....I like to remember that in my game the PCs *ARE* the calvary and even if they work for Michael and Laurence (in fact especially so) they have to come up with their own ways of demons dealing with this sort of thing. >*Working for Beleth? Trying to make a Malakite Fall? >Having anything else than abject failure along those >lines? Yeah, that'll get your name on the List. The problem basically it's a VERY VERY long list.... Scared angel: Master Laurence! Master Laurence! I've found a tether to Beleth where they are trying to corrupt a Malakim to Fall. Laurence: Oh that's original....*grumbles* Scared Angel: But sir! They have managed to trap human beings in never ending states of waking terror and terrible dream experiments... Laurence: *sighs and writes it down* I'll see what I can do....will three malakim be enough? Scared Angel: But sir they'res like 40 ethereals and several powerful demons gaurding the place! Laurnce: *pat pat* I'm sorry but I really can't spare the men my child, simply put we require the soldiery of the sword to work in concentrated units to overwhelm and destroy much. While this is no doubt an extremely viable military target and mark my words it WILL be destroyed someday we acomplish much more by attacking smarter not in wave assaults. Scared Angel: Huh? Laurence: Intelligence and skill in our operatives is what's necessary to defeat hell not sheer numbers and our greater targets are corporeal not ethereal in this age which means we'll win by killing seneschals and coordinated works such as attacking it's physical structure. Why don't you contact Marc's servitors in the area to make some red tape or Novalis to protest. Then take out the seneschal yourself with the three I may assign. Scared Angel: Sir! *Laurence leaves and a week later everybody is dead which moves it up a notch target wise but Laurence will only double the patrol next time as Beleth increases security* The stalemate in all it's ugliness. While Laurence's sucess ratio is fairly high in my game ten tether attacks fail for every one that suceeds including servitors attempts to get rid of the local demonic and such...tethers arn't really secrets in my game they just are so bloody entrenched! >Of course, as written it may take a _long_ while for >Heaven to notice. Cool: you can never have enough >spooky MK-ULTRA mind control freaky stuff going on, in >my opinion. :) I totally agree. I just wanted to make a statement about the overwhelming forces of the Sword (or the lack thereof). - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 18:28:58 -0700 From: "Kish" Subject: Re: IN> Whee, yet more IN questions. ^_^;; From: "Elizabeth McCoy" At 7:01 PM -0400 5/17/01, S.D. wrote: >First off, are there any canon Bright Lilim attunements yet? <> Note, however, that Laurence's attitude toward Bright Lilim is pretty much the opposite of what it's indicated to be in the INC--instead of never wanting any, he tries to get every Lilim who Redeems. --Kish ICQ# 28085879 AIM Kish K M ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 05:45:52 -0500 From: "John Walter Biles" Subject: Re: IN> In Anime Movie Trailer On 17 May 01, at 19:28, S.D. wrote: > >> >But better, I think to do Laurence/Michael, or > >> >better...Laurence/Khalid as Saionji/Touga > >> > >> Ooh. I *like* that second one. But Laurence pretty much *needs* to stay > >> as Dios. I'm *not* getting rid of the sword connection unless I have an > >> *extremely* good reason. > >> > >How about because Dios and Akio happen to be the same being? :) In > >unfallen/fallen state... > > Well, true. But who'd replace Laurence if I made him Saionji/Touga? Force Andre to yo-yo as needed for filming scenes? :) Although if Laurence/Khalid do Saionji/Touga, Michael can be Dios. > >Yes, but Eli's response to the duels would be to have Lillith jump in his > > car with him and they'd go cruising looking for a party, leaving the > >morons behind to play their little games. There goes the whole show... > >:) > > ...probably, yeah. ^_^;; Any suggestions besides Zadkiel or Eli? > Beyond Zadkiel, I dunno. Although the thought comes to mind of having an Ethereal play the role of Utena. Ethereals are closer to humanity than Celestials are, even Eli :) Or, alternately, Utena as a Grigori or child of the Grigori :) > >> >I'd add Malphas as Mikage (He's in the second set of 13 episodes, > >> >doesn't > >> > show up in the first thirteen) > >> > >> I recognize Mikage. I know the whole series. (That's part of my > >> reasoning for other characters - I can *not* see Blandine as Shiori > >> during the BRA or the Ruka thing...) But Malphas doesn't fit with my > >> conception of Mikage...and who'd be Nemuro? Or Mamiya? Or *Tokiko*? > >> Malphas isn't emotionally tied to *anyone* who'd fit those last two. > > > >Mikage's whole modus operandi is corrupting people by turning them > >against others, preferably someone they have a deep emotional bond to. > >That screams 'Shedim' and 'Factions' to me. > > Ah, but would Factions leave Tatsuya alone, just because he put Wakaba > above himself? I doubt that. > Would any demon prince? I can't think of any who would. > >Although I admit I can't think of who could be Mamiya to Malphas. But > >then, hardly any of the Demon Princes have anyone close enough to them to > > play that role. > > Doesn't necessarily have to be someone close to 'Mikage'. *Tokiko* has to > be someone close to him/her/it at some point, preferably before 'Mikage' > Fell (if he/she/it did.) Mamiya has to be someone with *some* ties to > 'Mikage'-as-AA/DP, preferably with a close connection to 'Tokiko' and > Lilith as well, and also plausibly manipulating 'Mikage'. (Asmodeus or > Kronos might work...) > > [beat] ... [starts laughing head off] I just had the *strangest* mental > image, and I don't know why. > > Mamiya... > > ...played by *Lucifer.* > HEh. John Walter Biles : MA-History, ABD, Ph.D Candidate at U. Kansas ranma@falcon.cc.ukans.edu http://www.dkcomm.net/rhea/falcon.html rhea@maison-otaku.net http://maison-otaku.net/~rhea/ "That all princes shall kiss the foot of the Pope alone."--Dictatus Papae, 11th century ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 12:51:39 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re: The Unredeemable. > Rather, may I suggest that you attempt to create a > being of Hell which cannot Redeem? A similar thought has been running through my mind for some time. Given we are talking about immortals here, anyone who has any flexibility is going to yo-yo over the eons. Especially as propoganda in this war doesn't just means sound bites; it can also include sabotaged Songs. I sent some examples to INC umpteen times a couple of years ago, but I got fed up with them being continually lost. But imagine the uses of Songs which require the Emptiness part of the Habbalite resonance, or which drain hits from a Djinn's attuned the round after the Djinn attempts to break the attunement. So both sides are going to be working on the project. Heaven probably only creates Malakim; they are actually quite flexible and tasks they can't fulfil can be handled by angels created before the Fall, or by the handful of Masters of Divine Destiny (which all angels, of every Word would strive for, so that everyone has both the Malakite resonance and a backup). Hell has a couple of starting points for unredeemable demons. The first, starting with Saminga (hey, the goal of 'any attempted Redemption results in the demons' death' is a natural part of his Word). Experimenting with combinations of the Shedite of Death attunement and the Mummification ritual to create a demonic undead, bound to a corpse, would be entertaining, and quite deadly, as they'd be able to pick up any toughness the corpse had and the Status of the human. They can still change sides, but they'll always be demonic. The Second is with Lilith. Given how painful/dangerous Geas stripping is, having every Lilim, and eventually every demon with a Geas called in to 'never BE an angel' or 'if you ever become an angel then Fall' would only be worth a level 1 for most demons (some may have a Need to owe it, to get the Game of their back) but would be a dissonance trap for the newly Redeemed. How Lilith is going to react to the elimination of the option of Redemption would be interesting to see, especially as this option could prevent changing sides as well as changing natures. The Third is Kronos. The Balseraph of Fate attunement is interesting; trying to modify the nature of Bal-akites to make redemption impossible would probably amuse him. Whether or not this is possible is a different matter, as AA's would be able to strip the attunement before attempting the redemption. In addition to preventing redemption, there is also the option of making it more useful. In my games I've made the Restricted Songs common, as handing out Songs which will be useless to you if you Fall/Redeem is simply good sense; also there is less threat of the Other Side learning useful Songs from your Servitors, and it'll increase the number of Variants which are developed which are similarly Restricted. So maybe this is what God is waiting for - as long as people can Redeem, He wants the stalemate to continue, the moment it isn't: Armageddon. James. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 13:10:12 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re: Armageddon - the Tac Sim. >> After all, the victory condition might be: *either* one side is left >> totally in control of the corporeal realm, with some humans still >> alive to breed, *or* Earth is utterly destroyed, and He With the >> Most Souls Wins. > > I thought the victory condition was that the enemy was annihilated. So M.A.D. is a joint victory? I'm looking forward to seeing some rules for this. James. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 13:10:03 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re: Stuff we want >> There was never any plan to do this. > > > Correct. The EPG is NOT an extended writeup of The Marches. As I > understand it, originally there was going to be another supplement which > did that. The likelihood of that supplement ever being published is > probably significantly lower than the likelihood of the EPG ever being > published.... And lots of other stuff. [Insert depressed sighs here, but]. Okay so we know that lots of stuff we want will never be published. How about hitting this from the other side? What is SJG definitely completely uninterested in writing up that should be canon? The Tsayadim? The dead Superiors? What? If that was determined, then people could write-up what they these should look like, and anything that Beth likes the look of could become official, web-only material. This would allow things like canon historical campaigns, allow Gm's to easily whip up older Servitors who used to serve now-dead Superiors, etc. It won't fill the hole that the absence of write-ups on the remaining Superiors, but it would fill up some of the cracks, and the next In book could trumpet how much extra In stuff is now available. One of the biggest problems I've had bringing new players into In has been the lack of write-ups on Superiors. (Heck, in one group I ran NOBODY's Superior had been written up in either Rev or Sup). Having the dead Superiors written up on-line would help solve that problem, I think. Hoping that there isn't a blindingly obvious reason why this won't work, James. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 05:26:18 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> No need for Laurence >Sure! Anyone who wants to publish it on their pages can, or any of my work >for that matter. > >-Charlemagne > http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ righthand column under "Other Linkage." - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 05:38:38 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> No need for Laurence >Sure! Anyone who wants to publish it on their pages can, or any of my work >for that matter. > >-Charlemagne > http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ righthand column under "Other Linkage." - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 01:48:57 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Re: Tactics of Armageddon - --On Thursday, May 17, 2001 12:39 -0700 Daiv wrote: > I would definitely be way into that. Just how much fun it would > be to Paint them, all by itself, would give me a good reason to > buy into it. "What's that cotton ball?" "It's my Kyrio." Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 06:02:46 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Whee, yet more IN questions. ^_^;; >First off, are there any canon Bright Lilim attunements yet? If so, could >someone e-mail the details of what they do? (general mechanics, plus point >values if any are like, say, Nybbas' Band attunements or Asmodeus'.) uh, there are but . . . I don't have the book they're in (FotM, right?) >Secondly, well...I'm currently very interested in getting into a game (as >PC, not GM.) But to do it as tabletop (as far as I know), I'd have to wait >till the upcoming *autumn*, *minimum.* So, does anyone know of either > A: a currently-running online game (PBEM, chatroom-facilitated, or other) >that'd accept a new player Well, unless anyone knows how to get ahold of JOHN KARAKESH, I'm currently a player short in NPBEM, a Malakite of Flowers to be precise.(http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/npbem/npbem.html) HAS ANYONE HEARD FROM JOHN KARAKESH?! - -sigh- Check out the Songs being performed in http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/npbem/shopping2.html this may fit your sense of style, seeing as you seem to like Anime. I've been allowing the way powers are depicted affect my portrayal of Songs. But there isn't room for a new *character*, merely that we need a new actor/player to role-play Kalamiel . . . and that does for the rest of y'all. I hate to "hand out" John's character, but she'll be an NPC anyway unless I do . . . I don't believe I've heard from him in, like, what, a year or something?? - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 07:15:22 -0600 From: "Julian Mensch" Subject: IN> In Nomine Backwards or Low Contrast I was just browsing through the list archive as I've been inclined to do, and I've noticed that despite the strong attention drawn to it in the GMG, there's very little talk of IN Backwards or Low Contrast on the list. Recently, I've been throwing around ideas for a warped version of IN that would be very low contrast and what all I'd change and alter in canon to achieve this (or just for the thrill of mangling canon -- something I manage to do to every RPG I play). I was looking over the net for inspiration, particulairly in regards to Choir/Band and Superior psychology, and I find there is very little Backwards or Low Contrast material. This is actually surprising; I would have thought Backwards would have been one of the more popular variants. I have found Tattered IN, and am more than a little over- awed by how well done it is -- I have to say I prefer it to the canon setting by leaps and bounds, largely because of the moral greyness and high drama/tragedy it evokes. While the Host is clearly the antagonistic side, they are more tragic than evil, and even have some truly good sorts in their ranks. That's something I'd really like to do in a non-heretical angels and demons game. The GMG advice for doing lighter versions of the Princes seems to focus more on whitewashing their evil than actually creating a heroic or antiheroic perspective for them. So my questions are 1) does anyone know the /dates/ for when Backwards was discussed on the IN-list in any detail? I'd love to go reread those threads in the archive (other than the Is Lilith Evil? stuff, which I've already found.) 2) for the people that have run very Low Contrast or fully Backwards games, how did it work? How did you handle the perspectives of various Superiors? Any anecdotes, characters or similar material to share? Are there any cool web pages for Backwards or LC games? And finally, I'm inclined to write up my own descriptions of Bands and some Superiors to give to players for a Back- wards game. Is anyone interested in seeing this kind of material on the list? I've seen a ton of Fallen Archangels, Redeemed Princes, a Malakite Novalis and now the combined Superiors Raplial and Vapulinga -- warped Superiors seem to be a popular pastime (no complaints here). Are people even remotely interested in Backwards/Low Contrast versions of Superiors on the list? - -- Julian Mensch ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:13:57 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Backwards or Low Contrast At 7:15 AM -0600 5/18/01, Julian Mensch wrote: >I was looking over the net for inspiration, particulairly in >regards to Choir/Band and Superior psychology, and I find >there is very little Backwards or Low Contrast material. This >is actually surprising; I would have thought Backwards would >have been one of the more popular variants. I'm occasionally of the opinion that IN should have followed the French INS/MV model (or, for that matter, the White Wolf WoD Vampire/Werewolf/Mage/Changeling model) and released two seperate games -- one Angelic and one Infernal. And that the Infernal game should proceed from the supposition that the demons are right, that Self Interest, individuality and independence are the virtues and that the Heavenly totalitarianism must be smashed. (Had In Nomine been the core product of a game company, rather than the ancilliary product of one -- I love In Nomine and thing SJGames has done well by it, but GURPS is Evil Stevie's firstborn son in Roleplaying -- it's fully possible we'd have gotten at least as much support and as many products and product lines as the Deadlands imprint has at Pinnacle. I could see core books for an Angelic game, an Infernal game, an Ethereal game -- actually brought up here on the list -- and a Corporeal game, with expanded options and concepts for the latter two to give people more options. Then, each line would get a certain number of supplements branded to it, and then some supplements like the Liber Canticorum would spread across all four games.) > I have found Tattered IN, and am more than a little over- >awed by how well done it is -- I have to say I prefer it to >the canon setting by leaps and bounds, largely because of >the moral greyness and high drama/tragedy it evokes. For my part of it, thank you. Though I'm not sure I prefer it to the canon setting, I'm awfully proud of my little dysfunctional family's part in it. >While >the Host is clearly the antagonistic side, they are more >tragic than evil, and even have some truly good sorts in >their ranks. That's something I'd really like to do in a >non-heretical angels and demons game. The GMG advice for >doing lighter versions of the Princes seems to focus more >on whitewashing their evil than actually creating a heroic >or antiheroic perspective for them. There is a point to be made here, certainly. One worth exploring. Should that become the next big thing? I warn you, it takes more than writing up new Princely backgrounds. It takes remaking or fleshing out Hell until it's an actual place with actual comprehensible purposes in each location. And to a degree recasting Hell in a "Job: A Comedy of Justice" light (which itself should be the Bibl-- er, first book read by anyone looking to do a semi-bright or bright IN-Backwards game). >2) for the people that have run very Low Contrast or fully >Backwards games, how did it work? How did you handle the >perspectives of various Superiors? Any anecdotes, characters >or similar material to share? Are there any cool web pages >for Backwards or LC games? The Wings campaign Mason Kramer and I have worked with comes from a very Low Contrast IN setting. It postulates a large number of renegades and outcasts, including two Minor Superiors, one from each side, who have fled from Judgement and the Game, in large part because in that universe, the two are practically the same. Michael has been seen on camera, and he's essentially good, but also arrogent as Hell, dismissive of anyone who doesn't go out of their way to impress him and succeed, and willing to casually decimate his opposition even if they're more scared than hostile. We haven't had Baal come out yet, but he'd be pretty much the same with an added inferiority complex. Gabriel has appeared twice -- once relatively lucid, but the second time she's been completely incoherent, not even remembering who she was or why she's doing what she's doing. It's not inconvievable she's a Remnant. > And finally, I'm inclined to write up my own descriptions >of Bands and some Superiors to give to players for a Back- >wards game. Is anyone interested in seeing this kind of >material on the list? I've seen a ton of Fallen Archangels, >Redeemed Princes, a Malakite Novalis and now the combined >Superiors Raplial and Vapulinga -- warped Superiors seem to >be a popular pastime (no complaints here). Are people even >remotely interested in Backwards/Low Contrast versions of >Superiors on the list? Always, though it's a hard trick. For my money, the best low contrast versions are the ones where you don't change a word. You just change attitudes. There's very little in either the Archangels or the Demon Princes that won't work low-contrast as written, and the Choirs and Bands work right out of the box, IMHO. However, I *would* throw in a flourish from the GMG (or IPG -- I don't remember off the top of my head). Allow "perversion" of resonances -- letting an Angel use his opposing Band's resonance -- but up the cost to do so to three notes of dissonance, each rolled seperately. And allow the same for demons. This represents both sides being able to look the other philosophy in the eyes and dive into it, but suffer a blow to their worldview as a result. A Balseraph who looks outside his personal, self-centered Symphony to determine the truth of a man's statement may get zinged and may even go Renegade or Discordant, but still has the ability to think as an Angel. An Ofanite who needs to destroy someone or something can break the circuit of his wheel of fire and pour it as destruction into his enemies, just like a Calabite, but might plummet for doing so. If there's enough background for this happening moderately often, the lines between Choir and Band become blurred, and Falling and Redeeming become more common. (If you want to make it *really* Low Contrast, allow Redemption by the same rules as Falling, no Superior needed, with the above flourish.) - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 14:40:20 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Backwards or Low Contrast >From: Whistling in the Dark >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >CC: "Julian Mensch" >Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Backwards or Low Contrast >Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:13:57 -0400 > >At 7:15 AM -0600 5/18/01, Julian Mensch wrote: >>I was looking over the net for inspiration, particulairly in >>regards to Choir/Band and Superior psychology, and I find >>there is very little Backwards or Low Contrast material. This >>is actually surprising; I would have thought Backwards would >>have been one of the more popular variants. > >I'm occasionally of the opinion that IN should have followed the >French INS/MV model (or, for that matter, the White Wolf WoD >Vampire/Werewolf/Mage/Changeling model) and released two seperate >games -- one Angelic and one Infernal. And that the Infernal game >should proceed from the supposition that the demons are right, that >Self Interest, individuality and independence are the virtues and >that the Heavenly totalitarianism must be smashed. > But what about people who enjoy playing silly, immoral demons without too many scruples? I really think this is how demons were intended to be presented as PCs. They don't need the moral high ground to be fun characters (not that you can't do it -- it's painfully easy to write up any of the demon princes as noble heroes, but I think they're a lot more *fun* just as they are.) >>2) for the people that have run very Low Contrast or fully >>Backwards games, how did it work? We've had all superiors being pretty much dangerous nutters, with PCs and other low-level celestials of both sides as the only voices of reason (similar to INS really, but also a bit too similar to Vampire for my liking. I like Vampire a lot, but I wanted this to be different.) jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2232 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.