From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat May 19 19:42:31 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25322 for ; Sat, 19 May 2001 19:42:31 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id TAA02629 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 19 May 2001 19:37:21 -0500 Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 19:37:21 -0500 Message-Id: <200105200037.TAA02629@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2234 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, May 19 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2234 In this digest: Re: IN> Mirror In Nomine : The History Re: IN> Mirror In Nomine : The History Re: IN> Mirror In Nomine : The History Re: IN> In Nomine Backwards or Low Contrast Re: IN> Mirror In Nomine : The History IN> Re: Duplicate Vessels. IN> Ryo-oki IN> My Coffee with Asomedus: A short story ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 13:52:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Mirror In Nomine : The History I like your version of the Eden Experiment here. Giving Eve the Word of Choice was a nice touch, too. But, as always, a quibble: in Davidson and other sources, an Archon is a demon. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 None of your plans for success will work unless you do. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 15:09:58 -0700 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> Mirror In Nomine : The History Really? I thought that Davidson described archons as angels (can't find the book right now, so I can't make sure). However, even if he didn't, different sources have described the Archons as angels or demons (as is frequently the case for this sort of things). Like the angels Uriel, Satan, Azrael, etc., depending upon which source you read, the Archons are angels or demons. >From: Michael Walton >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: Re: IN> Mirror In Nomine : The History >Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 13:52:10 -0700 (PDT) > > I like your version of the Eden Experiment here. Giving >Eve the Word of Choice was a nice touch, too. > But, as always, a quibble: in Davidson and other sources, >an Archon is a demon. > >===== >Michael Walton, #9805-068 > None of your plans for success will work >unless you do. > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices >http://auctions.yahoo.com/ _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 18:30:51 -0500 From: Santiago Subject: Re: IN> Mirror In Nomine : The History > But, as always, a quibble: in Davidson and other sources, an >Archon is a demon. Archon was originally the title of the nine magistrates that oversaw ancient Athens. It is currently one of titles of a type of high-ranking official in the Eastern Orthodox Church. It has the advantage of sounding like Archangel, and there's a tradition of naming angelic figures "Archon" in computer games, such as one of the special units in the Warlords series. - -- - -- Santiago ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 21:30:13 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Backwards or Low Contrast On Fri, 18 May 2001, Jonathan Walton wrote: > [Tattered] I'm definitely going to > have a PBeM game that's going to launch alongside the public release of the > netbook, and will gleefully play in any others that get started. Grey is > the way to go. I would like to call dibs well in advance for a position in this game, regardless of which side we'll be playing. :) (Hell, if I have the free time, I'll run one, too! But I doubt I will...) - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! "When you're alive you gotta SHOUT, and MAKE A LOT OF NOISE or WHATEVER, 'cause when you're dead, you SHUT UP LIKE HELL!" -- St. Jeroen Van Braam ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 17:35:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Mirror In Nomine : The History - --- Bevan Thomas wrote: > Really? I thought that Davidson described archons as > angels (can't find the > book right now, so I can't make sure). However, even if > he didn't, different > sources have described the Archons as angels or demons > (as is frequently the > case for this sort of things). Like the angels Uriel, > Satan, Azrael, etc., > depending upon which source you read, the Archons are > angels or demons. True. Davidson lists them as Fallen angels, counterparts to the Aeons. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 None of your plans for success will work unless you do. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 10:24:50 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re: Duplicate Vessels. > Is it possible that maybe Bill Cosby is a real human, but both the Angel of > Fun and the Demon of Pudding had made vessels to copy him? I dunno, it was > just a strange thought that entered my head. I can imagine Kobal handing out copies of famous people - after all, he often turns up looking like them; possibly if a jokester laughs themselves sufficiently silly over one of his vessels Kobal would give it to them to play with. James. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 21:48:14 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Ryo-oki Ryo-oki Cherub of Destiny Cor-6 Str-12 Agi-12 Eth-1 Int-2 Pre-2 Cel- 2 Will-4 Per-4 Vessel: Cabbit 1/ (+3 Chr), Starship 10/ (-1 Charisma) Skills: Jumping 3/, Fighting 1/, Emote 3/ Songs: Song of Form 2/, Song of Light (Celestial 6/), Song of Motion (Corporeal 6/, Celestial 2/) Attunements: Cherub of Destiny, Divine Destiny Dischord: Need (carrots) 4/ Ryo-Oki is on probation from Yves given that only recently (within the past seven hundred years) has she been redeemed from the terrible Djinn warrior that she was. Serving the dread Impudite Pirate Ryoko was indeed a chore but since the Impudite was imprisoned for so long it eventually got extremely boring and she ditched it for a higher calling. Upon news of Ryoko's awakening Ryo-oki however was contacted anew by Yves who said that the young Cherub would have to deal with a great mission ahead and for the time being would serve her anew as she was led on the rightful path back to righteousness. To compensate for any darker tendancies Ryo-oki was given an exceptionally cute vessel in addition to her normal self and a hunger for a earthly plant to make sure she never forgot what it was for she was fighting. Since then she has served abilly with on numerous occasions bringing life, joy, and yummy goodies to the people of the Household to which she is assigned and while she's certain her former mistress isn't ready yet to redeem she's well onto the path. It's no coinicidence but God's will Ryo-oki believes that the gathering of people in the small Japanese home with such great destinies and terrible fates. He has managed to attune himself also to little Sasami whose destiny is particularly powerful indeed and finds her as close to a sister as the little creature is ever going to find. Recently she has learned the song of form and has begun using it to acquire semi-human form for brief periods though the vessel is small and she isn't very good on getting rid of the vocal chords, duration, or facial features quite human yet but she's learning. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 17:36:21 -0700 (PDT) From: scott hillman Subject: IN> My Coffee with Asomedus: A short story Dominic grunted as he saw him come in. He was using his humanity trick of course and gave off nor aura..but the smirk the expression, he could recognize anywhere. It was Asomedus lord of the law, Demon of the machiavellian, prince of the game, even if he looked like a six five brown haired body builder. He looked over at his nose and grunted. Cute he thought. Asomedus offered him a polite nod “Good evening old friend” It was the truth, Dominic needed not his powers to know that. They had once of course like all grand enemies once been the best of friends, back in the days when the earth was new and punishment had been swift. Many angels even some of the newer ones thought that before the fall, that all they did was wear halos and sing hallelujahs. In reality their was much to be done, many rules to make sure followed. it had been a never-ending job then, now..thanks to him it was inconviable. Dominc invited him to sit down next to him and they ordered. Both had a coffee drink and a scone in the small upscale spot outside of portland. It was a good five minutes before their real conversation started. Dominc was dressed as a lawyer, tall and black with a pleasant round face. He liked the vessel. He liked the food. He absolutely hated the man across the table from him...but no he had to he had to give it to him. He started off with some pleasantries Well pleasantries in the loose definition. “If any of your demons where here you would probably chop them up into a million peaces and then corpse them on the wind. “ a very loose definition. Many people said that asomedus talked in a monotone.. Dominc had never thought that. His voice gave a tremendous range of emotions inflections and feels all the more so as the range was so small. A millionth of a decebel for him told more stories then all of the screams of the dammed put together. “Hierocracy is my part of my word old friend.. one must embody one must be the living embodiment of ones word...i do many things i would never allow my most loyal servants....i make the rules. and I can break them as I see fit” Asomedus grinned. Drinking He had ordered a cappuccino...another drink dominic could never understand like its drinker. “you always where like that.... My first lawyer... but not my best” Dominc added. He drank a coffee, dark. He could understand that. “oh such flattery....but literally true of course I imagine...I was young... the world was young .. so many tricks of avoiding you...so many skills....so many tactics...but whilst I was thier was no one to use it on. Till that is I stabbed you in the back.... So why are we here lover?” Asomedus said. Dominic hated when he called him that. Old lovers bent, between haven in hell locked in eternal love....it was poetic no doubt... but it lead people ..and angels to sympathize... to believe.. to hearsay. He hated more was that it was the literal truth. They had never been like Blandine and Beleth, or any other of the other doomed lovers from before or after the fall. Dominc could never imagine himself feeling what humans called love. But yes they had made love in the celestial manner. It hadn’t been that good. Sex had never been. Dominic frequently heard cries of love and passion in his judged. and he never quite understood why. He mused if it was a flaw..like his other one. how blind he though Dominic wondered for the thousandth time hits morning... not that he had really though.. why...why hadn’t he seen it coming. Asomedus..was in the celestial sense actually kind of a slut for a cherub. He should have seen it comming his less then total devotion for his charges..but then in cicrumstance he always wondered why he hadn’t seen it.. why god whould not have given him his word if he hadn’t been needed.. but..it was part of the divine will he imagined. not that it conforted him much. but on to business. “I am here to make you an offer” he thought about using the word friend. it seemed to..no “the council has agreed with a proposal of marc.. “Which you did not” Asomedus Said. “Which I did not yes...it was felt if a single demon prince betrayed hell at exactly the right momment..the entire hierarchy might collapse... “And you want me to be that demon prince.. or believe ...probably correctly that every demon prince is being made simultaneously or near simultaneously this same offer. Dominc nodded. “and you would believe it of course....its literally true..you know i can’t lie. We would place what ever one agreed in protective custody in heaven..and gradually convert you back to angelism..who knows you might become an archangel.. Asomedus archangel of law?” dominc was unable to hide a slight snear in his words. Asomedus nodded “you never did like the concept.... but you and they where correct I see that now.... who wants to be tied down in heaven? I do admit that did make me rather angry when you got the position. but i think now it was right... judgment... that was the more approate archangel for an angry god.. I don‘t hold grudges for 20,000 years, and “he paused “ no offense to your position, but it was a good plan as plans go...i salute to marc he is more crafty then you think.. he plays the game well..just I play it best ” Dominc sighed. He now suspected that this was some sort of giant double cross that marc had secretly turned....which asomedus wanted him to think..the inquisition of marc had just begun. It dod make as much sense logically as his own plan. Asomedus was not lying when he said he played it best. “Why do you do this Asomedus? “Because i can” Asomedus said, utterly coldly drinking his cappuccino. “But why ...”dominc sat up..and asked ..he was curious at least. why. “Why do all of this why did you..well to get right down to it fall?”: “Its better to rule in hell then serve up their” asomedus taking another sip . “oh cut the slogans” Domminc said not needing to attune . “Power” Asomedus admitted “Lots of Power.. A princedom... which he has granted “ “that's not it...your not that stupid to fall for that trap.. Asomedus leaned down on the table a bit relaxing..his voice growing more...something..“Well this is my third comment so it might not be very trustworthy. so keep that in mind..i probably am lying “ “Taken” . “I don’t believe in god” Asomedus said. “What.. “Dominc..we are as old as anything.. Have you ever seen him...or her..or it? “Dominic interrupted “but.. “ The voices... I mean their was the metranon of course...who could speak the word .Thier was yves “Asomedus paused “and kronos what ever they are... Gabriel could always feel it..but then gabriel you must admit was never the sanest one in our coitere Domic said. “Then you doubt all existence. “Dominic was going to raise his voice at this heresy..but he stoped realizing it was not an angel speaking “We served together well you and me..all those years...I really always loved the concept of equitiy.. it was such the great concept...value for value... didn’t we made a great team the angel of Judgement... the Angel of Law...but I realized something...yes i doubted existence.. what if what if the metranon was just faking it..what if he was in some cosmic joke with yves...or not at all... “he sipped his drink for a moment. He then continued “Mu theory goes like this...and it probably is wrong and has suffered 10,000 years of revision. We are creatures of some onnone void. created with out a god..if this sounds impossible to you consider. humans believe it very well. To sound Darwinian we are the creatures of some cosmic evolution. ..no god..just what...magic if not science or what ever it is..it was.. The first seraphs come along from this process. I admit I can’t very well explain ..but let us say they quite came full form ...Lucifer Micheal, Baal,Raphael..all born from what ever process came about. “Their they meet Yves..and i have several theories about him...one he is telling truth and older them a uniuque being..another he is a flawed seraph..a Mutant for lack of a better word...either case they meet him and ask him the question every babe asks thier parents. They where born relatively intelligent.... intelligent enough to know they exist...and they ask why “As seraphs they had no concept of the lie..but are unable aren’t you to perceive the truth..thier is a difference in that....the truth that yves then was guessing. Not quite a lie..no more a lie then Catholics belive mohomanded made. he just created a religion. He created god. not just named him as he claims but created him full cloth. Created a myth a story... an explanation of the universe..how they could exist...how they could be.. “and this was good enough for a few millenia. More where created more came... Then Came the metranon..and this is my belief”. He leaned in softly “The Metranon was the first baal seraph..and yes he was a mutant as well a fallen and flawed creature..like i am perhaps now. “his voice gave the slightest hint of sadness thier..wheter tact or truth it was impossible for even the seraph to say. “The metranon lied..and said he spoke the word of god.. the word of the god, of yves hypothetical religion... becuse he wanted .he wanted power, wealth....and the other seraphs. .The other seraphs stupidly belived him..for how could any one lie at all. He was a seraph ex-po facto he must be telling the truth. This was about when you where created wasn’t it domminic? Dominc grunted. “It was a rebellion of one... and a most subtle one. He was the prince of heaven speaking forth for a god that did not exist..Yves either knew or believed by this point his own story. If he knew what he could do He would have been hanged just as quick of the metranon..if the metranon didn’t hang him first..If he did not know..well now he was effectly under the metranon arch priest to his religion...and yves always was a bit self-satisfied.... “So it went on. even after the cherubian was created ..after i was created. We created the world the corplreal plane..heaven..the earth after all the other choirs where created....until lucifer..” asomedus paused “ I don’t know if he thinks as i do. I know almost every act he has done since the rebellion every speech every word..but i never have presumed to know what he was thinking at the time.. but what ever he did.. he killed the metranon..he killed The voice of are god... . Asomedus paused and finished “The rest you know “Their are numerous flaws in your story.. “I do admit that...particularly how they existed at all i have theorized that we are literally are a sympony..and that where notes... “stop. Their are flaws in your story. it just does not add up..” domic said with more force then he wanted.. “ But sufficed to say it is a theroy..and as a theory it lets me think a postulate. God does not exist. Okay. If god does exist then.. thier is no free will. “That is not the case. ..a supreme will does not need subjugate a lesser will.. “but by creating a lesser will then that he does not subjugate then he has the power to subjacte them. Since a playing peice running round the board can never stop the opponent from grabing them and doing with him as they will. Thus any possible free will is cancelable at any time..and thus it is never in this sense free. besides as god by creating the other playing pieces, the rules, and the manner in which the players interact.. Their is no free willl..only god’s will to let the universe exist. and if their is no free will their is no you dominic..thier is no justice in the universe. no destiny or fate ..for god can not make correct or incorrect the actions if the universe exists only as his game, then he can not make his own actions just and injust as one can not judge oneself. only god in the end can..and. if god does not exist their is no one to define it.... “so in both cases you have no responsibility for your actions.” Dominc said softly. finishing his thought. The danger of dealing in heresy is that one must hear it is os often..think it. “Exactly old friend exactly..Either god made has made me the prince of the game..or i have made me the prince of the game.. In either case i am free to make the rules what I want. do what i do..with no true justice. If i am to rot in eternal fires like your books say.... Then that it is just the end of the game...and I should just play my part till then.... your regretting your earlier offer aren’t you? “No i don’t in fact. I feel better then ever about it...despite what ever even my comrades say about me..and the lies your kind spreads threw ...i am not without mercy... I am mercy in away “The same as the god you said throws firebolts, and spreads locusts and destroys armies with the sea..is love? “Exactly the same way yes” Dominic. Asomedus grinned and bit into his scone.“thiers much to this corporal plane..i rather enjoy it sometime...i belive you rhetoric is that we plan to destroy it after where finished. but for me..i don’t plan to change a thing.. “Do you think you can win?” Dominic asked “you who expect to be thrown in the fire pits, Asomedus noded . “Yes...we will in the end..Lucifer is what ever else he is..the most powerful being in the universe right now.. His word is.....His word is the world... Think of that old friend....truely think of it. his word is the non divine..that whic is imperfection in creation.. the Corpreal.. all beyond the realm of heaven... “And your his lackey spotting catherist dogmatism. “I admit it ..and i admit that might not be true.. I admit that I am at most a queen to his king...but then he is powerful which even you can’t deny. As are armies..Baal...Saminga..Belial.. any of a million other demons. We can win. it will be easier then you might imagine. where evil...as you so wonderfully call us...and we have the luxury you truely not have. we can stand to wait. to let sit until the exact moment of are desire to strike...we are not truely sickened by good as you are with Us..This why your armies are not as strong as they where. That is why rapheal is gone..why uriel is gone. why thousand...fruitless attacks on us.... While we..we can wait till doomsday....well actually yes we will. Asomedus continued finishing up his coffee. “But then. then you. might win. Even with out believe god controls the true fate universe I will admit that their are good odds that you do. then what now.? What do you do for immortality.. it is such a long time.. I am seven hundred million years old dominc.. you are close to a bilion..and Michael. How do the endless end? how does anything end? Adomedus was near the end of his speech. “We rebelled... and that is what i believe will happen agian... a second grand rebellion. then a third. for on and on ..forever....I might not be their to see it. but if I play the game... “I will be their to see you do not..” Dominic said. He was to see to the thousand angels that he had been killed by him and his lies.. “ oh no you won‘t Dominic. I know you to well..someday..i will accept your most kind offer dommic.. and you will make it..you have to domminc..you are as you said....mercy...you work for a god who is by your own defenition..love.... someday(and i will work most assuredly not to be in the front line for either slaughter or triumph, but among those who either cheer your deaths on or surrender to your better nature....someday... I might become a good cherub again....and be with you agian..love god again, and stop believing this grand heresies i sputter,.. ... but whether i believe them or not.. 70 million years from now.. The waiter came by and offered the check. Dominic pulled out of his pocket exact change. that was due. they where most definitely splitting this one...as the waiter left asomedus finished his blashomey “The game..the game begins anew..” Asomedus was the type to leave his grand statements open and grand. Domminic felt no need to add to the conversation. asomedus rised leaving a tip a penny less then 15 %..dominic knew that it was deliberate. as asomedus walked from the cafe.. Dominic followed in a few moments. he did not see asomedus on the nights street. he did smell....He smelled something that would bother him for a very long time.. it was incense.. pleasant incense... he threw a penny to the waiter as he walked past him.. the Waiter, looked curiously at the grim figure. it was his job to clean up after him. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2234 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.