From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon May 21 12:58:35 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29391 for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 12:58:34 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id MAA05339 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 21 May 2001 12:55:39 -0500 Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 12:55:39 -0500 Message-Id: <200105211755.MAA05339@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2236 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, May 21 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2236 In this digest: IN> Elohim and Emotions was"We're sending you a cleaner" Re: IN> Baal, Archangel of Victory Re: IN> In Nomine Backwards or Low Contrast RE: IN> Elohim and Emotions was"We're sending you a cleaner" IN> The Digests IN> Re: Bright Baal Re: IN> Re: Bright Baal Re: IN> Re: Bright Baal Re: IN> Re: Bright Baal IN> "Bright (nosed) College Days..." IN> Alternate Writeup - Nephalim IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2235 Re: IN> Baal, Archangel of Victory Re: IN> "Bright (nosed) College Days..." IN> Superior Victory Re: IN> Superior Victory Re: IN> Superior Victory Re: IN> Baal, Archangel of Victory Re: IN> My Coffee with Asomedus: A short story Re: IN> Elohim and Emotions was"We're sending you a cleaner" RE: IN> Elohim and Emotions was"We're sending you a cleaner" Re: IN> Baal, Archangel of Victory Re: IN> Superior Victory Re: IN> Elohim and Emotions was"We're sending you a cleaner" IN> A Kyriotate Archangel ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 22:23:33 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Elohim and Emotions was"We're sending you a cleaner" > Funny. But with that bad attitude about his job, he >won't be an Elohite long. I don't think so. After all Elohim don't have to be Vulcans. The fact is objectively harvey knows his job is important and complaining about all the mess and trouble people cause is just one way of reflecting that an angel if they are more careful will not need to do this sort of thing. Elohim can display emotions all the time I think, they just need to have them be the logical thing to do....they are controlled not driven by them. Besides he's constantly working in Tethers :-) - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 19:34:38 -0700 From: "Kish" Subject: Re: IN> Baal, Archangel of Victory From: "Charles Phipps" <> Why the Word-change? <> Is that Will+Ethereal Forces+the normal Celestial Forces bonus for Seraphim? <> Am I understanding that correctly? A Seraph who detects a lie will automatically know whether it was told by a human or a Balseraph. (Which actually matters only at check digit 5 on the Seraph's resonance, as below that the Seraph will only learn that the Balseraph believes what it said, and at 6 the Seraph will learn that the Balseraph is a Balseraph anyway.) <> Why not? When I read that, I expected to find him Hostile to Dominic--but no, Associated. <> /Yves/? --Kish ICQ# 28085879 AIM Kish K M ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 11:51:39 -0700 From: "Phillip" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Backwards or Low Contrast As it stands, I'm working on a piece where I'm reversing the {rinces and Archangels, if that's what you're takling about. Once the page is up, I'll let you know. Phillip, Angel of Reinventing The Wheel, serving his Word ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 12:08:02 +0800 From: "Manny Nepomuceno" Subject: RE: IN> Elohim and Emotions was"We're sending you a cleaner" I really hate for threads to turn into "i agrees" and "i disagrees", but I'm feeling a bit restless today... True, Elohim don't have to be Vulcans. But the Elohim as a Choir cultivate a detachment from emotions to protect their objectiveness. Only an Elohite who courts dissonance would express emotion; admitting to emotion is, of course, something else entirely. This, I think, is one reason Moe objects to Khalid's Choir; it doesn't make sense for an Elohite to personify Heaven's righteous fury. That's what the Malakim are there for. (Of course, I don't claim to speak for Moe :) ) From the APG: "Elohim who lose their way tend to lose their detachment, and may start to express their emotions in very brief but intense bursts (dissonant Elohim have been known to develop road rage)." (p.43) > Elohim can display emotions all the time I think, they just need to have > them be the logical thing to do....they are controlled not driven by them. This I especially disagree with. They _can_ display emotions, at the cost of dissonance. For a Servitor of Judgment, especially a favored one, this is the equivalent of signing one's own death warrant. For a Servitor able to summon Dominic, how is he able to avoid the Most Holy's scrutiny? Otherwise, I liked the concept. And the Tether as well. :) :) Manny Neps ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 16:11:45 +1200 From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: IN> The Digests Errr. I forgot to save something before I sent it to the list and I would like to get it back. The digest archives seem like the best place to do this. However they only go up to 2000. I tried altering the URL so that it read 2001/05 but so lcuk there. Can someone point me in the right direction please. Thanks Alex _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 15:09:01 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re: Bright Baal > Hostile: Novalis (Novalis is hostile to him and so is Yves) Yves? Mister I'm-not-Hostile-to-anyone is Hostile to the first redeemed DP? Other than that, very cool. James. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 00:25:17 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Bright Baal - ----- Original Message ----- From: "james walker" To: Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 11:09 PM Subject: IN> Re: Bright Baal > > Hostile: Novalis (Novalis is hostile to him and so is Yves) > Yves? Mister I'm-not-Hostile-to-anyone is Hostile to the first redeemed DP? Maybe he knows something we don't. (Such as "The bugger's gonna yo-yo again... and take a lot of mucho update knowledge about Heaven with him. Oh yes, *and* give Laurence a severe kick in the self-confidence.) - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 22:44:13 -0700 From: "Kish" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Bright Baal From: "Charles Glasgow" > > Hostile: Novalis (Novalis is hostile to him and so is Yves) > Yves? Mister I'm-not-Hostile-to-anyone is Hostile to the first redeemed DP? <> In which case, I would expect him either to 1) go to Baal and explain that, thereby causing Baal to commit suicide, or 2) if he knows Baal wouldn't go for it, then go to Dominic and have Baal locked up or killed quickly. (Though I realize the first option is dependent on direction/contrast, and the second is dependent on how much political power in Heaven you give Yves.) --Kish ICQ# 28085879 AIM Kish K M ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 00:49:04 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Bright Baal - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kish" To: Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 12:44 AM Subject: Re: IN> Re: Bright Baal > From: "Charles Glasgow" > > > > Hostile: Novalis (Novalis is hostile to him and so is Yves) > > > Yves? Mister I'm-not-Hostile-to-anyone is Hostile to the first redeemed > DP? > > < > (Such as "The bugger's gonna yo-yo again... and take a lot of mucho update > knowledge about Heaven with him. Oh yes, *and* give Laurence a severe kick > in the self-confidence.)>> > > In which case, I would expect him either to 1) go to Baal and explain that, > thereby causing Baal to commit suicide "But how can I be sure that my doing that wouldn't be the catalyst that actually made Baal jump?" You gotta watch out for them self-fulfillin' prophecies. > or 2) if he knows Baal wouldn't go for it, then go to Dominic and have > Baal locked up or killed quickly. > (Though I realize the first option is dependent on direction/contrast, and > the second is dependent on how much political power in Heaven you give > Yves.) As well as how much *certainty* we give Yves. Sometimes, seeing possible futures can be even more hellish than seeing actual ones. Of course, Yves usually sees the *bright* possibilities, not the dark ones... - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 23:03:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> "Bright (nosed) College Days..." Well, I'm finally back from my weekend. Took a break from (finally) prepping Tattered AAs (and playing with a new Heresy) to toss this off. BTW, the offering thing is apparently real, or so says my girlfriend. I'll be going through the Digests tomorrow. It's 2AM here, for crying out loud. :) Moe "Oh, yeah: any campaign that has the AA of Mending might as well get used to the idea that this guy is absolutely, positively To. Be Left. ALONE." Lane Testudo Ethereal Mascot Corporeal Forces: 1 Strength: 3 Agility: 1 Ethereal Forces: 3 Intelligence: 6 Precision: 6 Celestial Forces: 3 Will: 6 Perception: 6 Vessels: Three Bronze Turtles/6 Skills: Artistry/3 (Writing), Fast-Talk/6, Fighting/1, Knowledge (History/2, Literature/1, University of Maryland lore/3) Songs: Daydreams/3*, Entropy (Ethereal/3), Harmony (Ethereal/3), Lending** (Corporeal/6), Memory (Ethereal/3), Shields (All/1) *It is unknown how Testudo managed to learn this Song. **Normally a Song restricted to Cherubim/Djinn: Testudo apparently knows it as part of his specialized ethereal nature.*** Contrary to popular belief, it is possible for humanity to engage in superstitious activity without it spawning an ethereal. The practice of students at the University of Maryland is a case in point: there are several large bronze turtles at various places on campus, and it's become a habit to rub said turtles' noses for good luck. This sort of thing happens all the time, and nothing ever comes of it. However, when people start leaving offerings, well, that's another story... Testudo is a fairly young ethereal, but it's got a nice spot at the metaphorical table. Young humans always seem to have so much belief sloshing around inside them that it's practically exuding from every pore, and most are more than willing to spend a little of it on something that might help them pass a test. Testudo is happy to help with that. If you go to one of his statues right before a test, rub its nose and leave an offering (candy, roses, Dr. Pepper - he especially likes that one - or anything else of small but real value to you), well, it's amazing how well you do that day. Possibly you may be a little more tired than normal, but then, that's to be expected from staying up all night the night before studying, right? Essentially, what happens is that you've performed Testudo's 2 Essence Worship Rite. The ethereal keeps one, and uses the other one to fuel the performance of the Corporeal Song of Lending upon you. If it works, it works: if not, well, he tried. For the most part, Testudo grants Fast-Talk, as the ability to BS well is usually what a student needs most when taking a test. The ethereal is picking up other skills from osmosis, though. After all, you can't hang around a campus for thirty years without learning something. The ethereal also provides other boons for the Essence: he can calm jitters (Ethereal Song of Harmony), reaffirm someone's hopes (Song of Daydreams) and, if he likes you, even help you in a debate (Ethereal Song of Memory). It's also probably not a good idea to commit a violent crime in front of him (Ethereal Song of Entropy). Testudo is really one of the good guys: he likes humans and considers himself to be in a symbiotic relationship with them. Honestly, most of these kids already know this stuff. They just need a little boost to their self-confidence from time to time, that's all. Testudo gives them that, and in exchange gets the use of some Essence that they'd certainly blow anyway on answering just one question correctly on a test. He's there to serve, and he serves well. He also gets to catch all the home football games, which is nice. His existence is a bit problematic for the Host. Testudo is, after all, fairly obviously hanging out on the corporeal plane. Granted, he's doing nothing but help out humans, but rules are rules. Unfortunately, it so happens that there are Soldiers of God with University of Maryland diplomas, and they have all rubbed Testudo's nose at least once in their college days. They tend to be vehement about leaving their alma mater's mascot alone. Add to that the story about the time Yves wandered by, looked over the main statue-vessel of the ethereal for a moment, smiled and patted Testudo on the nose... ... Well, in a Bright campaign that'd be enough to make the Host quietly ignore any random ethereal bronze turtle manifestations that they might see. There are more important things to worry about, frankly. ***(Chanting) Free. The. E-P-G! Free. The. E-P-G! (/Chanting) ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/29/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 10:07:07 From: "Michael Cleveland" Subject: IN> Alternate Writeup - Nephalim Nephalim - The Whisperers "mrmph...razzarazzafiz _they're using you_ thraz bischt mrmph... The Nephalim are the twisted offspring that are often created from the union of a human and a Grigori or other Celestial. Most of them were hunted down shortly after the Judgment of the Grigori, but rumors persist of monsters that can be found in some of the darkest recesses of the Earth. Some say these obscenities can even be found in the badlands of Hell, but if so, no one has seen them in recent memory. Appearance - A Nephalite's appearance remains the same regardless of the plane of existance, though no two Nephalim are exactly alike. Some Nephalim appear to be normal to a cursory examination, although their eyes often display a greenish luminescense, or are completely black. A more detailed examination shows their skin to have an almost rubbery texture to it, with no bone structure at all. Tentacle-like growths have been seen on some of them, as well as an ability to stretch, twist and elongate their bodies in a decidedly unnatural fashion. In the more typical of the breed, the skin turns a glistening black color, while the arms seems to atrophy and lose cohesiveness, becoming ropelike tentacles. Resonance and Dissonance - The Nephalim are not strictly Celestials, and so do not have a Resonance or Dissonance Condition per se, however there are certain curious effects that have been noted. Quantifying the average Nephalite is a difficult task due to the way that the Nephalim that have been captured seem to have a very different type of mind than most Corporeals or Celestials. They do not appear to speak any languages, even though it's often clear that they understand what is being said. Their behavior patterns swing from being completely unresponsive to outside stimuli to watching and observing their captors for hours on end. The public consensus is that they are dangerous animals that should be put down. The reason that both the Archangels and Princes continue to lead people to believe this is that listening to a Nephalite's jabbering and mumbling has an effect on the minds of the listeners. Placed in a room with several different celestials, all of them heard the Nephalite speaking to them individually about different subjects, all of them extremely personal and deeply upsetting to the listeners. It appears that the whispering of the Nephalim causes the listener to hear the Nephalite speaking about his deepest fears or concerns. It's not believed that the Nephalite actually knows what that fear is, but once a subject starts speaking to them, they will start carrying on an intelligent conversation, complete with philosophical details, secrets, etc. In truth, the Nephalite is still simply whispering its nonsense, but the listener will find it almost impossible to believe that. A Seraph applying its Resonance to a Nephalite will find some disturbing information - their Resonance will read the entire conversation as a lie, even though the Seraph knows that certain parts of what the Nephalite said were True. In actuality, since the Nephalite is not actually saying anything cohesive, the fact that the conversation is taking place is a lie, and all the supposed 'Truths' are coming from the Seraph's own mind. In addition, a Seraph who acquires the 'higher truth' from his Resonance will find that the Nephalite is trying to drive him insane - any further inquiries are inconclusive. (Prolonged exposure to a Nephalite's whispering will slowly start to cause mind hits to the listener. Although the damage is slight, it builds over time until the person loses all their mind hits, takes a point of Ethereal Discord, and starts to lose his mind. The truly dangerous thing about this is that while the loss of Mind Hits may be quite evident to a casual bystander, it will not be noticable to the listener until pointed out by an outside source. The damage can be healed by standard methods, but if it is not pointed out, it will go untreated until insanity occurs. Even should someone gain Discord from listening to a Nephalite, there is a good chance that the person will fail to realize that the Nephalite is the cause, unless he knows about this ability.) Current Status - Orders have quietly gone out to operatives in both Judgment and The Game to destroy any Nephalite that they encounter. No one knows precisely how many Nephalim are left on the Corporeal plane, but strangely the number seems to be going up slowly, The few Grigori that have been found and asked about the matter seem as mystified at this latest turn of events as everyone else. Rumors abound that Eli has been spotted in areas where there are believed to be higher concentrations of the beasts, but according to the few of his Servitors that have asked him about the subject, he becomes very quiet on the subject except to say that he has nothing to do with them, and would not have anything to do with them. One curious note - to date, the souls of slain Nephalim have yet to be found. Both Asmodeus and Dominic have spoken on this subject at great length and volume, only to leave irritated and more confused. Both Yves and Kronos would very much like to know what is going on - both of them claim that the souls are not simply disbanding, but neither one has been able to track them down... Finally, all rumors of Nephalim in notable numbers overseeing construction of a temple complex somewhere in the deserts of the Middle East are nothing more than rumors... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 07:53:01 -0400 From: Mary Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2235 Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 17:23:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Driving Cherubim Crazy - - --- Janet Anderson wrote: > If a Cherub is attuned to someone who's a habitually > reckless driver, will his "danger sense" go off every time the driver does > something like cut in front of a heavily loaded truck or narrowly miss another > car? >> I'd say yes. Gives Cherubim a reason to be selective. I would say no, unless its a Cherub of War. The way I've played it, the cherub resonance is not constitutively active. The Cherub has to check:"What is my attuned doing now and where are they?" According to the resonance role, there doesn't seem to be an actual "danger sense" facet to the resonance. It seems that you have to draw your own conclusions based on the evidence from your check digit. Attuned: Frightened, 2 miles south/south/west, moving quickly, enemies..ex-wife, neighbors dog, Joe Calabite of Fire. "It's not just Science, it's an Adventure!" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 08:20:30 -0400 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN> Baal, Archangel of Victory The concept isn't bad, but I do have some problems with it... >Baal, Archangel of Victory Why wouldn't he get Valor back? > that sense does not go towards any mission that is assigned and the > punishments inflicted on servitors who fail in their deeds make even David > occasionally give pause. That sounds more like the behavior of a Demon Prince in my opinion. > It is dissonant for any follower of Baal to fail in the assignment that Baal > assigns them That sounds like you are setting angels up for failure. No one is perfect, even Celestials. > Baal is extremely loose in how these things are acomplished but he expects > them done and doesn't really care exactly how much property damage and pain > his servitors have to go through to do it. Even Michael's people appreciate the value of not doing too much collateral damage. Last time an angel went this overboard in doing his job was Uriel. And we know what happened to him. > Seraphim The Attunment as listed seems a little too powerful. But that's just my opinion. > Elohim > internal policing (which Baal does not like Dominic needing to handle) A wise commander would know better and let someone with more experience handle things. I think Dominic might not appreciate being told that his people aren't needed to help with this matter... > Kyriotates > > Kyriotates of Victory add their corporeal forces to any will attempts to put > their hosts into battle against evil and take no dissonance if they would be > willing to die battling evil. An interesting idea. I can imagine that other Dominations would be rather contemptuous of them though since they have no problem in letting a host get killed. > Lilim > > Lilim of Baal well to be perfectly honest don't really much resemble their > counterparts anymore and more resemble almost pagan priestesses of Baal > singing his many glories and the freedom and pleasure that will be the > fruits of the dawning age of which the wrathful one shall bring about...etc The way I see it, singing the praises of someone other than God is definitely going to draw the ire of Judgment and run the risk of the Archangel getting more self absorbed. > Hostile: Novalis (Novalis is hostile to him and so is Yves) Novalis I can understand. I think she would try to encourage him to work more on Redemption than destruction though. But Yves? I can't grasp why he would be hostile. Finally, I don't think Heaven would be too willing to put Baal back on the front lines so quickly after Redemption and they would hesitate to allow him Archangel status. After all, this would be the first Demon Prince to defect to Heaven which is bound to cause problems. I could see him being sent into service of Michael or Lawrence, with Dominic keeping a very close watch on him for a few decades. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 05:33:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> "Bright (nosed) College Days..." - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > Testudo > Ethereal Mascot Oh, this is _priceless_. And so logical, even in a strictly canonical campaign. Makes me want to write up the Dream Shade of Chimega (the mascot from my alma mater). Bravo, Moe. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 None of your plans for success will work unless you do. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 07:57:46 -0500 From: "Cthulhu" Subject: IN> Superior Victory It was astounding, when it all came together. No-one in Heaven saw it coming, except for one, who was mostly wrong. And only two people in Hell had. Well, that's wrong. Millions of people in Hell had seen it coming. If you widened the definition of "people" somewhat. It started on the Savannah, of all places. (Actually it started in Hell five hundred years beforehand, in a hidden Principality that very few of the Royalty in the place knew about. But we'll say it started in Heaven.) Very quietly, the Servants of the Apocalypse snuck in. Jordi noticed, of course, but then he was the one who told the Enemy how to shield itself from the Light of Heaven in the first place. The numbers milled around the vast plain for months without anyone commenting (although one or two people did point, at one stage). Then, when all was in place, they struck, savagely and without warning. Novalis was the first to be lost, stripped of all her Forces in a flurry of murderous mastication. Even as the Archangels death cry was echoing in Heaven, and Jordi was still saying "Ooops.", the walls were breached by the invaders, more sneaking in from the Marches every second. The Host never stood a chance. They might have, of course, if they'd actually responded in time, but the plan was crafted with a skill unseen by either side in *any* past conflicts. Michael was reported to have just stood gawking in amazement while the Horde approached. Yves, standing slightly behind him, flipped through his tome in a panic, yelling "That's not supposed to happen!" It didn't really take long at all. The few demons that had marched with the destroying army were later heard to tell tale of souls fleeing before complete destruction, of angels diving into the Horde only to be dragged down and crushed underfoot. Laurence made a valiant stand, but he lost his drive when he saw them pushing over Blandines Tower. After that the sheer weight of numbers dragged him down. Jordi was jumped while still in shock from realising what he'd done. It took a while, but he was chewed up in the end, along with the rest of them. His last sight was of the horde (awkwardly) dragging themselves up Jacobs Ladder, and the screams filtering down from above. The Princes were as shocked by the Archangels, truth be told. They had gathered near the Granite Throne to try to work out what was going on, and had just be wondering where Kobal had gotten to when the penny dropped. They'd been wrong all along. Even the Lightbringer had been wrong. It wasn't about the humans at all. As Baals jaw hit the floor, Furfur screamed, pointing out the window. "Cow!" the Prince of Hardcore screeched, "COW!" In the short few minutes they had left, all the Princes learned something. Asmodeus learned that some Games you just can't win. Haagenti learned that some beings will eat things even he won't. Like him. Kronos learned that he'd been keeping track of the wrong Destinies all this time. Belial learned that sometimes it isn't too bright to try to resonate on the most powerful Prince in Hell, and blew himself up with the backlash. Vapula learned that it had been a mistake to trade off all his Doomsday cattle prods for that natty new leather lab coat. And so on. Eventually, Ronald sat alone on the Celestial plane, with his herd. His forces on Earth were joyous from the news that had filtered down to them. They had some clover to celebrate. In Hell, the bonemeal which had been Kobal was distributed to those who had distinguished themselves in the fighting. Poor sod had made the mistake of *telling* the Demon Prince of Cows when he finally figured out the joke. He had been congratulating him, sure, but still ... he knew too much. There were a few things left to do in Heaven and Hell, but not much. He'd have to figure out wht to do with Lucifer one of these days, but for the moment the trampled ex-Lord of Hell was still only cursing, surrounded by six hundred and sixty six of the most powerful sorcerers who ever lived, who mooed their spells quietly into the still air. David was still wandering around Heaven as well, insulting the parentage of the heffers that were follwing him, but not actually *touching* him. "Stupid dissonance", though Roland as he worked on the final stages of his plan. The most important stage. The eradication of the human race. Tomorrow, it's going to be an Apocalypse ... Cow! - --- For those few of you who are completely lost, go have a look at Moe's page, http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine/superiors/Ronald.htm . I'm going to have to drop out of the list for a few months now, 'cause my net access is vanishing, and I didn't want to leave without saying goodbye. been more fun than I can possibly say, Cthulhu _____________________________________________ Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! http://www.MyOwnEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 09:01:59 -0400 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN> Superior Victory For years, I have been claiming that the cows are out to kill us all. Someone finally believed me. *applause* Thanks Cthulu. Great post! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 09:35:40 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Superior Victory - --On Monday, May 21, 2001 9:01 AM -0400 Cameron McCurry wrote: > For years, I have been claiming that the cows are out to kill > us all. And the sheep. Oh God, the sheep.... Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 10:13:37 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Baal, Archangel of Victory At 8:20 AM -0400 5/21/01, Cameron McCurry wrote: > The concept isn't bad, but I do have some problems with it... > >>Baal, Archangel of Victory > > Why wouldn't he get Valor back? When a Word has led an Angel into Falling, and been stripped away as part of the process, it behooves the Seraphim Council, when deciding upon a new Word for the Angel (if any) to consider *carefully* whether the old Word is appropriate, or whether it could lead to another Fall. In this case, Victory might be seen as innately brighter than Valor was. (Of course, it might well not be.) - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 10:31:43 -0400 From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" Subject: Re: IN> My Coffee with Asomedus: A short story scott hillman > > [snip] Cool. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswcasa.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:27:06 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Elohim and Emotions was"We're sending you a cleaner" Manny Nepomuceno wrote: > Only an Elohite > who courts dissonance would express emotion; admitting to emotion is, of > course, something else entirely. Incorrect. > This, I think, is one reason Moe objects> to Khalid's Choir; it doesn't make sense for an Elohite to personify > Heaven's righteous fury. No, Khalid doesn't fit as an Elohite because his Word is Faith, which is the opposite of objectivity and reason. > This I especially disagree with. They _can_ display emotions, at the cost > of dissonance. Wrong. Many Elohim do avoid expressing emotions, but it's not necessarily dissonant for an Elohite to allow himself to express what he's feeling, as long as he strictly avoids allowing them to influence his actions. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 12:43:15 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: RE: IN> Elohim and Emotions was"We're sending you a cleaner" At 12:08 PM +0800 5/21/01, Manny Nepomuceno wrote: >I really hate for threads to turn into "i agrees" and "i disagrees", but I'm >feeling a bit restless today... > >True, Elohim don't have to be Vulcans. But the Elohim as a Choir cultivate >a detachment from emotions to protect their objectiveness. Only an Elohite >who courts dissonance would express emotion; admitting to emotion is, of >course, something else entirely. Actually... (uh oh)... I disagree. One of my favorite Elohim I've encountered is played by a friend who, from day one, cultivated an almost sneering cynicism in the character. Gillian (the Elohite) is surly to everyone she meets, putting them off balance and often breeding a certain resentment. Now, she does in fact feel that way, much of the time, and her expression of that emotion does reflect that. Objectively, however, she recognizes the usefulness of her cynicism and antisocial behavior as a tool to keep emotionally distant from those she interacts with, ensuring her own rightful behavior. I stole that paradigm for an NPC on my website, actually. It's brilliant. And it raises an important point, which I should mention below: > > Elohim can display emotions all the time I think, they just need to have > > them be the logical thing to do....they are controlled not driven by them. > >This I especially disagree with. They _can_ display emotions, at the cost >of dissonance. There is no dissonance for emotional display, any more than there is dissonance for the falsified emotional displays of the Emote skill. So long as the Elohite does not *act* out of emotional considerations instead of objective ones, he is safe from dissonance. >For a Servitor of Judgment, especially a favored one, this >is the equivalent of signing one's own death warrant. Mm. No, not really. It *is* safe to say that an Elohite observed by Judgement to be apparently expressing (and possibly acting) emotionally will be marked for investigation, but if it can be shown the Elohite is not dissonant (and therefore not acting out of subjectivity), he's not likely to incur terrible wrath. They've had billions of years of interacting with Elohim, after all. >For a Servitor able >to summon Dominic, how is he able to avoid the Most Holy's scrutiny? Technically, none of Dominic's Servitors can summon him. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 09:50:37 -0700 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> Baal, Archangel of Victory In this case, Victory might be seen as innately >brighter than Valor was. I disagree. Valor has a certain morality to it (bravery and honor walk hand-in-hand with it). Victory lacks none of this. After all, somebody poisoning someone is victorious over his foe. But not valorous. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 10:34:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Superior Victory - --- Cthulhu wrote: > "Cow!" the Prince of Hardcore screeched, "COW!" I... do... not... beleive... you... went... THERE. Tanj, we're gonna miss you, man. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 None of your plans for success will work unless you do. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 10:39:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Elohim and Emotions was"We're sending you a cleaner" - --- David Edelstein wrote: > Many Elohim do avoid expressing emotions, but it's not > necessarily dissonant for an Elohite to allow himself to > express what > he's feeling, as long as he strictly avoids allowing them > to influence his actions. Quite so, hence my comment that started this thread. The Elohite in question gripes about his job and is clearly displeased about having to clean up other people's messes. From griping it's only a short (though admittedly not inevitable) step to being subjective about things like, say, how thoroughly he cleans up a particular mess or which cadre of angels he gives his number to. However you slice it, this guy's in danger of Dissonance. Not that I think that's a flaw in the write-up, mind. It adds spice to the situation if the reason that this particular angel can invoke Dominic so easily is that Dommie wants to keep an eye on him. 0;> ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 None of your plans for success will work unless you do. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 13:56:27 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> A Kyriotate Archangel I just realized there weren't nearly enough good Archangels bearing the Kyriotate nature so I decided to create one. Zedikiah Archangel of Control "Humanity has shown itself consistently unprepared to rule itself when the occasion arises that they must be ruled. Thus we must fulfill this ecological niche." Zedikiah is an Archangel that very few in Heaven had heard of and those that have heard of him are usually not very much desiring of meeting. The Archangel of Control is truth be told even considered something of a joke in Heaven with his radical views that can best be likened to Jordi's for the level of seriousness that they are taken. Nevertheless the Archangel of Control plays an extremely important part in Heavenly society and his works advance the cause of humanity a great deal even though he's been known to set them back on occasion a step for every two forward. To Zedikiah's rather practical mind that is still a step forward. The Archangel of Control was originally a servitor of Malphas the First Kyriotate who was the previous Archangel of Control. When that entity fell Zedikiah dedicated himself to recovering his master's word and making sure humanity did not lack guidance even as the demons gave the wrong kind of guidance. Zedikiah after a relatively short period of service, twenty two thousand some odd years, he was confirmed as the Archangel of Control for his work in the Asian regions to which he had devoted a great deal of his time and effort to promoting his word in and the majority of his tethers rested in. While not quite as regional specific as Khalid to this day the orient remains the seat of his power and perhaps the only place on Earth where his power approaches that of a major archangel though the 20th century and First World have been very good to him lately and many Archangels of Western focus are learning to appreciate his existence as the Demon Princes of similar ideas begin to dislike him for it equally. Zedikiah when he chooses to appear, usually appears as an elegant Mandarin Chinese Bureaucrat complete with elongated fingernails with a beautiful glowing phoenix hovering over his shoulder and a small golden dragon that perpetually moves around his robed body. The image is quite surreal and occasionally disorientating but not nearly so much as his Western form which appears as nothing so much as piles of ticker tape, computer screens, and flowing digits and numbers incarnated into a man wearing a wall-street business suit. The word of Control it should be noted covers a variety of aspects that roughly translates as power over another for the greater good. Zedikiah has traditionally due to his rather bizarre personality lost the bids for words of the truly important aspects of this such as Parenting to Zadkiel, Business Management to Marc, Networks to Jean, and Teaching to Yves but still has numerous powerful words under him including Bureaucracy whom is his highest ranking servitor, Ancestor veneration, Confucianism, Surrender, Autocracy, Legalism, Micromanagement, Dictation, Auditing, Meritocracy, Taoism, Utopias, and Dogma which whom gaining the word of proved to be a major coo over Laurence. Given that a great many of the words under his support are often at odds, such as Confucianism and Legalism's age old rivalry, it is a wonder how the Kyriotate's organization stays together but few understand that as a Kyriotate Zedikiah does not just hold one view of the ways to achieve unity with his word but he holds many at once and if a particular situation does not achieve the desired results he will simply try another. Indeed because humanity proves itself such a flighty creature Zedikiah has been known to throw his support behind two competing groups and some with obviously counter-productive ideals in hopes that should one win he might be able to better control the results. This strategy has proven wasteful and disastrous on numerous occasions and he is looked at with a great deal of jaundiced eye. Zedkiah's only excuse does not help as he doesn't believe in free will either "I was meant to do this". Dissonance It is dissonant for any servitor of Zedikiah to lose control of a situation to the point that they are unable to regain control. It should be noted Zedikiah is extremely forgiving of dissonance and understands that it is practically impossible for his servitors to live up to his wonderful example with the way demons have corrupted humanity so he is usually willing to inflict discord of geas, fanaticism, and tyranny to compensate for their "character flaws" rather than punish them outright. Servitor Attunements Zedikiah charges his servitors with increasing angelic influence on the human race as much as possible and encouraging them into positions of power to better serve the common good against demonic intrusion. Zedikiah as a Kyriotate simply believes that no philosophy or solution to a problem such as a universally accepted religion will solve all humanity's problems so the best solution is to have agents and enlightened rulers handle it as the problems arise. Seraphim Zedikiah's Seraphim it has been observed by servitors of Janus would all have fallen to become Balseraphs with their self righteousness if not for the fact that they prefer cutting other people's arguments down as opposed to imposing their own views. Seraphim of Control can hear the flaws in any argument with their resonance. Cherubim Cherubim are the campaign managers, muses, and background forces who are behind many great candidates whose ideas or at least agreement with the Cherubim's would have faded into the background without their influence. As long as his attuned is within a distance of yards equal to his corporeal forces the attuned may also re-roll their reaction rolls and use the more positive one to EVERYONE they meet. Ofanim Ofanim might have popularized the "bungee boss" in which someone comes into an area, changes everything, then disappears just as quickly as he came. Ofanim can instinctively sense where the people most receptive to his ideas are closer and can follow that perception to them. Elohim Elohim of Control are those annoying people you meet who just know the right way to fix your life. With their resonance roll they are able to look at you and determine what is the best way to improve your overall lifestyle to a more heavenly and efficient one. Malakim Malakim are in the speak of the Cathedral of Control called "Negative energy production eliminators" which means what exactly you think it means. With their resonance roll Malakim of Control are able to determine how the elimination of those resonance by whatever means will effect the community as a hole. Outright murder is uncommon and more specific are accidents that improve efficiency such as Mr. Potter from It's a wonderful life getting his pills changed to the wrong kind when the hospital needs more funding. Kyriotates Unsurprisingly there are more Kyriotates in Zedikiah's service that all of the other choirs combined. There is a great deal of choirism in Zedikiah's ranks and it is not unheard of for Zedikiah when comparing two servitors of similar skill to promote the Kyriotate simply because he prefers their similar perspective to his. Kyriotates of Zedikiah are rarely found because they are able to "live inside" a host and merely give suggestions while the host lives his normal life and fully views the situation as part of his conscience. Better yet these Kyriotates take no dissonance when their host is harmed unless their suggestions are the direct result of such. They can also assume "normal control" whenever they like with all the effects both good and bad to the host. Mercurians Mercurians of Control are simply put, less likeable than normal Mercurians as they tend to view humans as children who need a good smack on the wrists more than they do sympathy and understanding though their love for them is no less. A Mercurian of Control is able to deduce all character flaws of a person just by looking at them which some Mercurians use to try and eliminate while others use them to bind them to heaven's service (though Zedkiah keeps this very quiet, he recognizes it is necessary for the weak willed to occasionally be submitted to the strong) Servitor Attunements Bureaucratic Navigation This ability allows a person to instantly be able to understand the layers of bureaucracy that compose the whole of the being that is an institution, indeed bureaucracy is to Zedikiah it is the equivalent of Jesus to the Kyriotates though as you might guess he is somewhat aware humanity is not quite up to angelic snuff with their application of it yet. The information includes everything from whether or not a memo will be lost and where to who to bribe to whether or not a person will react better to a certain piece of legislation than another. The information only pertains to a specific regions bureaucracy and different usages must be made for different departments such as a memo traveling from the IRS to the FBI down to the local police but it still is immensely useful. Suggestion This ability is similar to a divine logic attunement but instead it allows an angel to be able to suggest a given course of action to be undertaken and the target to undergo it with a contested willpower check though actions completely against one's essential nature like suggesting a worker kill his Djinn boss or Lilim wife will simply not work and prolonged actions will allow the person to reroll his will to "reconsider" at various intervals. Hex of the Anarchist This ability is a manifestation of Zedikiah's utter hate for liberals, libertarians, revolutionaries, and other beings who attempt to undermine the established order for more freedom supporting and thus dangerously evil forces. If a person is identified as a source of chaos whether because he is actively working for the breakdown of law and order or merely his very presence inspires it (most but not all demons fall into this category) the servitor of Zedikiah can for the cost of 7 essence turn the lawful aspects of the Symphony against an individual like white blood cells to a virus. People will toss their garbage out on the person when he is passing by, people will ignore stop signs and traffic lights while they are crossing the street, lighting will strike trees to knock them over, animals will despise him, he'll offend everyone he meets, he'll come down with a freak case of bubonic plague when the doctor is out, and other rather bizarre actions. This effect lasts for a full twenty four hours and the best course of action for anyone under the hex is to hide in a hole or kill the offending angel. The placer of the hex can remove it at any time but all essence spent on it is lost. Distinctions Vassal of Teachers The possessor can instantly make any subject interesting and enjoyable to someone listening whether it's quantum mathematics or the essential nature of mildew on showers and how it relates to the greater cosmic godhead. Friend of Government The possessor of this attunement is able to instantly create a role with a success roll (1-6) for a government agency that for a single day shall exist including ID, social security number, and a coffee mug at "Section 6" Master of Domination A Master of Domination is able to determine when and where a system will break down and the reasons why within a year of knowledge. Relations Zedikiah's rather stringent insistence that humanity needs to ruthlessly controlled and guided by the angelic host wins him a rather considerable coldness from the majority of the Host as does his utter contempt for any archangel who does not run their organization with complete and total...well control. However Zedikiah's loyalty to Heaven is unquestioned and his desire for a better life for Heaven, just some such as Jordi and Janus think the man is quite insane. Zedikiah reciprocates this with the belief that is quite unfounded that because Malphas once held his word it is somehow better that he not be allowed to become one of the major superiors and that he has to fight for whatever influence he can, which is not unfounded. He used to be allied with Blandine of all Superiors who found common ground in influencing humanity but lost that friendship when he chose to side with the Commander of the Host against his former allies in the Celestial Bureaucracy. Allied: Jean, Dominic (Jean is Allied with him) Associated: Marc, Laurence, David (David and Marc is Associated with him) Neutral: Everyone else except... Hostile: Jordi, Janus, Eli, Novalis (Janus and Jordi are hostile to him) Basic Rites * Compel the allegiance of 10 individuals to a specific project (+2 for 100, +3 for a thousand, etc) * Spend three hours doing bookkeeping work. * Slay a Lilim Chance of Invocation: 5 +1 A book of non-Eastern domination philosophy such as the Maciavelli's the Prince, Ten Commandments, the Koran (but not A Communist Manifesto for instance) +2 A book of Eastern domination philosophy such as the Analycts of Confucius, Red Book, or Art of War +3 An office building full of people hard at work +4 A man full of patriotic fervor or company loyalty worked to the bone for no apparent reward but still happy +5 A piece of fresh government or corporate legislation limiting freedoms for the greater good +6 An enlightened Despot - -Comments Charlemagne ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2236 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.