From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon May 21 19:39:40 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA13313 for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 19:39:40 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id TAA21901 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 21 May 2001 19:37:34 -0500 Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 19:37:34 -0500 Message-Id: <200105220037.TAA21901@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2237 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, May 21 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2237 In this digest: IN> Canon Ruling, Please... Re: IN> Elohim and Emotions was"We're sending you a cleaner" Re: IN> Superior Victory Re: IN> Superior Victory IN> Baal, Archangel of Victory Re: IN> Elohim and Emotions was"We're sending you a cleaner Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2235 IN> The Cleaner IN> Elohim and Emotions IN> First Timer, Newbie Question... Re: IN> A Kyriotate Archangel Re: IN> Elohim and Emotions Re: IN> In Nomine Backwards or Low Contrast Re: IN> Canon Ruling, Please... Re: IN> My Coffee with Asomedus: A short story Re: IN> Canon Ruling, Please... Re: IN> Driving Cherubim Crazy RE: IN> Elohim and Emotions was"We're sending you a cleaner" Re: IN> A Kyriotate Archangel IN> A Kyriotate Archangel RE: IN> Elohim and Emotions was"We're sending you a cleaner" Re: IN> The Digests Re: IN> Elohim and Emotions was"We're sending you a cleaner" Re: IN> In Nomine Backwards or Low Contrast Re: IN> Elohim and Emotions was"We're sending you a cleaner" Re: IN> A Kyriotate Archangel Re: IN> "Bright (nosed) College Days..." Re: IN> In Nomine Backwards or Low Contrast Re: IN> In Nomine Backwards or Low Contrast Re: IN> In Nomine Backwards or Low Contrast Re: IN> In Nomine Backwards or Low Contrast Re: IN> In Nomine Backwards or Low Contrast ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 01:59:28 +0800 From: "Manny Nepomuceno" Subject: IN> Canon Ruling, Please... Heya, In the GMG Metatron is said to maybe be a Seraph, maybe not. He isn't even listed as an Archangel. (p. 92) In the APG, Metatron is listed as a Seraph Archangel. (p. 22) Which is it, please? Thanks in advance, :) Manny Neps ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 13:58:06 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Elohim and Emotions was"We're sending you a cleaner" At 10:39 AM -0700 5/21/01, Michael Walton wrote: > Quite so, hence my comment that started this thread. The >Elohite in question gripes about his job and is clearly >displeased about having to clean up other people's messes. >From griping it's only a short (though admittedly not >inevitable) step to being subjective about things like, >say, how thoroughly he cleans up a particular mess or which >cadre of angels he gives his number to. (A slightly different take than the write-up, mind.) "So how are you, today?" "Inconvenienced." The answer was curt, and abrupt, bringing Donald up short. He hadn't expected it from the Elohite. "What do you mean? I thought your job was to--" "Of course my duties involve cleaning up your little messes. If they weren't, I would not be here. I don't make my travel plans on whim, you know." He began unpacking his kit. "However, if you're under the mistaken perception that yours is the only assignment I currently have pending, please don't allow me to cloud your perfect world with reality." "Jeez -- I'm sorry--" "Are you? Hm. I could find out, were I vindictive, or curious, or even cared slightly. As I'm not any of the above -- or don't act out of them, were I -- I shall have to accept your sorrow under face value. However, if you *really* want to prove you're sorry, next time you'll have some consideration for the corporeal realm and our orders regarding it, hm?" Donald took a deep breath. "Look -- it was him or us. We did what we had to." "The reasons for your sloppiness are of as little concern to me as the equal sloppiness in your grammar." He had begun to scrub the surfaces. "Now, look at this -- do you see this finish? Blood ruins it. I have to clean the blood away, type the finish, match it, replace the finish and properly age it so that the coloration matches. I rather imagine you don't care about that, either." "Hey -- if you feel that way, why don't you just get out of here?" "You honestly *don't* have a clue, do you? No, that was apparent by what you did here. Look, run along. The adults have work to do. You can go play with your friends in the sewer for a while. Only this time, play *quietly,* if such a thing can penetrate what you Malakim call skulls. There's literally nothing you can do for me here except get out of my way." His disdain was palpable. Donald's fist clenched. He turned on his heel and marched out. The Elohite allowed himself a small smile. 'Heroic Malakite' rebuked instead of praised. Disdained instead of deferred. Strongly likely to reduce overall impact in the future to 'show' the Elohite just 'what he's capable of.' More to the point, said Malakite is now out of the room, allowing the Elohite to work. Excellent. Pity the bastard shot him on a badly finished hardwood floor. This *was* going to take forever. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:08:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Superior Victory Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 07:57:46 -0500 From: "Cthulhu" Subject: IN> Superior Victory >"Cow!" the Prince of Hardcore screeched, "COW!" This is all my fault. Everyone? I'm sorry. I am so, so sorry. Not sorry enough that this isn't going on that HellCow Page (with Cthulhu's permission, of course) that I'll be creating one of these days, but still... :) Moe PS Get your insane butt back online ASAP, Cthulhu. :) ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/29/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:08:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Superior Victory Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 07:57:46 -0500 From: "Cthulhu" Subject: IN> Superior Victory >"Cow!" the Prince of Hardcore screeched, "COW!" This is all my fault. Everyone? I'm sorry. I am so, so sorry. Not sorry enough that this isn't going on that HellCow Page (with Cthulhu's permission, of course) that I'll be creating one of these days, but still... :) Moe PS Get your insane butt back online ASAP, Cthulhu. :) ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/29/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 14:15:05 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Baal, Archangel of Victory >Valor The idea a Demon Prince can return to his old word in my mind is a bit of an insult to the actions and deeds that they've caused. Andrephalus in my mind will never again be love, Beleth will not be Fear, nor will Lucifer ever again be the Archangel of Light. They've passed through their own trials and been transformed for it. Baal has gone from a being of prideful personal glory to a being dedicated to eradicating everything demonic in the world. Hence Victory. > Dominic Baal innately fears Dominic is going to find him wanting and is doing his best to police his servitors and cooperate with his men. Unfortunately he's having trouble shaking some of his demonic habits as his work shows...in effect he's overcompensating for millenium of destroying everything he now stands for again. His servitors are the same after all and it's rather impossible to deal with them all like normal angels are.... Hence.... Dominic as associated is trying to lead Baal through it. I imagine it's relieved a lot of his guilt for the Fall that Baal has returned and he's doing his best to make sure it's not going to be harsher than his former brother can bear. It also will allow him to slowly adjust Baal's servitors in a large group toward their new heavengly roles after all the Seraphim council was NOT going to give Baal a word when he redeemed. God did and who is going to argue with God? Not Dominic. >Yves It's a bit of a role reversal, I think Yves can stand hostile and very firm if he believes it will do the greater good. As opposed to Dominic who is usually the unforgivingly harsh one. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:16:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Elohim and Emotions was"We're sending you a cleaner Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:27:06 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Elohim and Emotions was"We're sending you a cleaner" >>This, I think, is one reason Moe objects to Khalid's >>Choir; it doesn't make sense for an Elohite to >>personify Heaven's righteous fury. >No, Khalid doesn't fit as an Elohite because his Word >is Faith, which is the opposite of objectivity and >reason. That's essentially my opinion, too, although the approach to ultraviolence is likewise a factor*. Moe *But, upon reflection, maybe Bright Lilim isn't the only way to go. There is another path... ...but that's for another day. :) ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/29/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:28:49 -0700 From: "Kish" Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2235 From: "Mary" <> The description of the resonance notes that, in addition to the effects if the Cherub focuses on the attunement, the Cherub will automatically know if the attuned is in mortal danger. --Kish ICQ# 28085879 AIM Kish K M ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 14:28:03 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> The Cleaner >Dominic so easily is that Dommie wants to keep an >eye on him. 0;> More precisley I think it's because Harvey alone is in charge of covering up the Symphony from negatively impacting mortal society. For that matter whenever he summons Dominic it would be for something like oh say.... "Dominic, slight problem, a bunch of angels with dischord are getting autosied by the government" - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 14:31:31 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Elohim and Emotions >No, Khalid doesn't fit as an Elohite because his Word is Faith, which is >the opposite of objectivity and reason. Well in my writeup "Consider Faith" I stated Khalid's goal is to prove faith is both objective and reasoning with the world as it is currently presented and his faith in Islam is because he believes it is objectively the most simple (in it's original form), consise, and proper code of behavior to living a godly life. In my write up I also questioned whether an Elohim can believe in God and Khalid said that was a line that objectively NEEDED TO BE DRAWN because objectivity made everything completely subjective. (a full circle accepting nothing as valid or logical by questioning everything) - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 15:16:16 -0400 From: "Tafka" Subject: IN> First Timer, Newbie Question... This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0E208.FAC67620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable New to IN and the list ('tho, I have been lurking a little bit now, and = you people are scaarrry ;) and just thought I'd peep up and ask a simple = question... Anywhere out there in netville, has anyone done any work on an IN: = Atlanta setting? Thanks! (And keep being scaarrry... :) - ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0E208.FAC67620 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
New to IN and the list ('tho, = I have been=20 lurking a little bit now, and you people are scaarrry ;) and just = thought I'd=20 peep up and ask a simple question...
 
Anywhere out there in = netville, has anyone=20 done any work on an IN: Atlanta setting?
 
Thanks! (And keep being = scaarrry...=20 :)
- ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0E208.FAC67620-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 15:28:47 -0400 From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" Subject: Re: IN> A Kyriotate Archangel You wrote: > > +2 A book of Eastern domination philosophy such as the Analects > of Confucius, Red Book, or Art of War How does that bit from _Bridge of Birds_ go, where Master Li describes the Legalist philosophy: Punishment produces fear. Fear produces obedience. Obedience produces respect. Respect produces virtue. Thus, punishment is the origin of virtue. I've always thought that this is a good kernel to build a Malakite or Habbalah around. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswcasa.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 15:33:01 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Elohim and Emotions - --On Monday, May 21, 2001 2:31 PM -0400 Charles Phipps wrote: > In my write up I also questioned whether an Elohim can believe in > God Angels and demons don't need faith. Faith is "the evidence of things not seen."[1] Celestials have direct, constant experience with the power of God in the Symphony, and thus have knowledge and fact, not faith - it's humans who need faith, one way or the other, and they're given the ability to make choices like that for themselves. Since they don't have (and aren't supposed to have) direct knowledge of God in the sense of experiencing directly the way the Celestials do, that's all they've got. You can't *tell* a person what to believe, nor can you have faith in something you already know beyond doubt to be true. The faith that stands on authority is not faith. [2] Celestial 'faith' in In Nomine actually boils down to *opinions* about the nature and plans of God, based on individual experience. Think of it this way. Faith is the belief of facts testified, or of testimony; knowledge is the assurance derived from actual and sensible perception, by the exercise of our own senses; matters not certified to us by testimony or our own experience. Thus Newton knew that bodies specifically lighter than water would swim in it; he believed that King Henry VIII seceded from the Roman Catholic institution; and he was of the opinion that the planet Saturn was inhabited.[3] Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation. ("When we have broken our god of tradition, and ceased from our god of rhetoric, then may God fire the heart with His presence.") [1] Hebrews 11:1 [2] Ralph Waldo Emerson, "The Over-Soul" from _Essays: First Series_ [3] Alexander Campbell, Millennial Harbinger, Vol. 1, p. 355 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 16:00:15 -0400 From: "S.D." Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Backwards or Low Contrast >As it stands, I'm working on a piece where I'm reversing the Princes and >Archangels, if that's what you're takling about. Once the page is up, I'll >let you know. Send that to me too, would you please? I have an ongoing side project (whenever I'm not doing *anything* else) involving swapping them, and I'd like to see someone else's take. Right now, about all I have is a few snippits on Kobal, Archangel of Laughter (mostly based on the Dark Victory writeup) and lots of details about swapped Malakim and Lilim. (Which happens to be my favorite part of the setting... ^_^) ~S.D. Ryukage http://fly.to/sd_nexus ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Looking back, I realize that I sold my soul for a pack of cigarettes. Of course, I can comfort myself in that she also gave me a lighter. Somehow I feel I got the better end of the bargain. (Youji Kudou, 'Bad Habits') (I swear, this is so Lilim/Lilith it's not funny. ^_^;; ) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 19:55:28 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Canon Ruling, Please... >From: "Manny Nepomuceno" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: >Subject: IN> Canon Ruling, Please... >Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 01:59:28 +0800 > >Heya, > >In the GMG Metatron is said to maybe be a Seraph, maybe not. He isn't even >listed as an Archangel. (p. 92) > >In the APG, Metatron is listed as a Seraph Archangel. (p. 22) > >Which is it, please? > Use the GMG ruling. jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 16:33:56 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> My Coffee with Asomedus: A short story #1: this is enough over 10K that I'm frowning somewhat. (It's 18K.) #2: Set Your Emailer To *7BIT* ascii. #3: If you have already done that, then make sure that any composers you are copying and pasting from are NOT using "curly quotes" (also known as "smartquotes"). Why? Because > Asomedus offered him a polite nod ìGood evening old ^ _that_ looks like an i with a ` mark over it, and >friendî ^ _that_ looks like an i with a ^ mark over it. - --Beth, List Admin http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/listrules.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 16:45:05 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Canon Ruling, Please... At 7:55 PM -0400 5/21/01, Jo Hart wrote: >>From: "Manny Nepomuceno" >>In the GMG Metatron is said to maybe be a Seraph, maybe not. He isn't even >>listed as an Archangel. (p. 92) >> >>In the APG, Metatron is listed as a Seraph Archangel. (p. 22) >> >>Which is it, please? >> > >Use the GMG ruling. What Jo said. The APG is riddled with.... things that someone thought might be a good idea at the time, and there was no LE operant to check with. - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. arcangel is nursing a trout with ARMS! ARMS that reach out and try to pound the keyboard! You say "And teeth. Ow." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 17:03:09 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Driving Cherubim Crazy At 9:34 PM -0400 5/20/01, Janet Anderson wrote: >If a Cherub is attuned to someone who's a habitually reckless driver, will >his "danger sense" go off every time the driver does something like cut in >front of a heavily loaded truck or narrowly miss another car? > >Opinions are welcome, but I'd like CANON for this if possible. p. 95... If the attuned is in "immediate mortal danger," then yes. This is a GM call -- if the other driver is actually alert enough to compensate, it might not go off _every_ time. Just every other time. Hmmm.... Now we know why Tariel was tying up his attuned? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 20:57:48 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: RE: IN> Elohim and Emotions was"We're sending you a cleaner" >> > Elohim can display emotions all the time I think, they just need to >>have > them be the logical thing to do....they are controlled not driven >>by them. >> >>This I especially disagree with. They _can_ display emotions, at the cost >>of dissonance. And I disagree with both of you, based upon The Book. (IN core rules.)Eric has expressed very well my understanding of the matter : >There is no dissonance for emotional display, any more than there is >dissonance for the falsified emotional displays of the Emote skill. So long >as the Elohite does not *act* out of emotional considerations instead of >objective ones, he is safe from dissonance. Precisely. Elohim are allowed to lie, so long as they do not lie because of an internal/subjective emotional urging. Therefore, they can "pretend" to be acting upon personal emotional motivators as much as they like. It's lying, but lying with their expressions, body language, tone of voice, etc . . . enough to drive a some Seraphim to violence, I'd imagine. I could go into psychological research that goes into the facial feedback effect (how smiling/frowning leads to internal emotional changes), but I refrain, as In Nomine is a game for which great detail in the workings of the Real World in this aspect is not needed (SFAICT) and I imagine that most people on this list would have little to no interest in the FFE (except perhaps passing interest). (Though the FFE would have little effect if Celestial vessels are designed to not include its mechanism.) At any rate, I'm intrigued by the idea that God's Truth (the Symphony) is Objective truth, and that if an Elohite would able to discern God's emotions regarding a topic, then that Elohite would be able to act on those objective emotions. Of course, the very idea of emotions being inherently subjective and intellectual thought as being inherently objective is also of particular interest, especially when one considers the fact that no matter how much data you obtain, the way in which you organize and therefore understand that data will be of an inherently unique nature, because no two minds are exactly alike (at least in human beings, because experience shapes the way in which the mind develops, at least until we have evidence to the contray to contradict the theory, and as every being has a unique set of experiences, therefore every being has a unique mind). And if a unique perspective is an inherently subjective perspective, then Elohim cannot possibly exist (unless their minds are NOT shaped by experience, which is entirely possible, but rather unplayable in my understanding.) - -Perry, Kfc emulating an Elohite. perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 14:03:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> A Kyriotate Archangel - --- Charles Phipps wrote: > Zedikiah > Archangel of Control I don't know about this one. The Word and how he promotes it seem more appropriate for a Shedite than a Kyrio. And any AA who is "forgiving of Dissonance" is just asking to be put on trial for heresy. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 None of your plans for success will work unless you do. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 09:07:54 +1200 From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: IN> A Kyriotate Archangel My poor Choir Angel. Good job Charles. Just you stay away from the other Words I have reserved! Again to remind you guys Truth, Devotion, Motion, Balance, Honour, *Control*, Interaction, Guidance Alex _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 17:15:21 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: RE: IN> Elohim and Emotions was"We're sending you a cleaner" At 12:08 PM +0800 5/21/01, Manny Nepomuceno wrote: [Phipps wrote] >> Elohim can display emotions all the time I think, they just need to have >> them be the logical thing to do....they are controlled not driven by them. > >This I especially disagree with. They _can_ display emotions, at the cost >of dissonance. [...] Elohim can display emotions if there is no reason _not_ to -- such as morale reasons. One who _does_ display a lot of emotion, especially violent emotions, which it actually feels... is likely to be investigated quite a bit, since at the least, it's going to be making other angels _worry_ about it! Which is not something that is likely to aid the Symphony. So the canon is between the two above statements. Elohim cannot display emotions "all the time" -- only when it is either neutral, or in the best interests of the Symphony. If it is detrimental, and/or they are displaying their emotions "_just_ 'cause they feel like it," then they will be dissonant. If displaying an emotion is in the best interests of the Symphony, they will be dissonant if they do _not_ display it! If displaying an emotion is neutral, then they can choose whether or not to display it, according to whim, just as they can choose which underwear they are going to don for the day (provided that there is no reason why they should pick the thong over the boxers). - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 17:19:39 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> The Digests At 4:11 PM +1200 5/21/01, Alex Liddell wrote: >Errr. I forgot to save something before I sent it to the list and I would >like to get it back. The digest archives seem like the best place to do >this. However they only go up to 2000. I tried altering the URL so that it >read 2001/05 but so lcuk there. I'm looking into this; tell me a good, unique keyword and I'll search my own archives... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 21:11:56 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Elohim and Emotions was"We're sending you a cleaner" > >Pity the bastard shot him on a badly finished hardwood floor. This >*was* going to take forever. Now I'm tempted to write up the bofh. jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 14:57:39 -0700 From: "Phillip Des Jardins" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Backwards or Low Contrast > Right now, about all I have is a few snippits on Kobal, Archangel of Laughter (mostly based on the Dark Victory writeup) and lots of details about swapped Malakim and Lilim. (Which happens to be my favorite part of the setting... ^_^) You too? I felt in order ot do the setting justice I'd have to do it. And thus it is th -ONLY- time you will ever here me talk about Dark Malakim as a concept and take it seriously. The Lilim, on the other hand, required a severe makeover to reconcile the fact that they were created from a different standpoint entirely: in Counterpoint (the name of the setting), Lilim can't collect Geasa from people, instead their ability to sense Needs is far more sophisticated, allowing them to tell more than simply -what someone needs. Phillip, Angel of Reinventing The Wheel, furthering his Word ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 22:17:20 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Elohim and Emotions was"We're sending you a cleaner" //what I'm thinking// "what I'm saying" actions (who am I? : an Elohite of the Sword) NOTE: I apologize to actual survivers for my inability to accurately portray the surviver in this case. Detroit: Street, Low socio-economic status The car tools along carrying me as its passenger, I'm casually resonanting on the passers-by. //looking for any signs of evil to carve up into little tiny wiggling pieces// //here we go, someone's disturbed because he's just been raped, that's **pretty** evil, let's check it out, maybe I *will* see some action tonight// The car pulls up slowly to the curb ahead of the invidual. I get out. //he'll tell me to f*@k off if I ask him if he's ok . . . crap// I reresonate on him as he approaches, meanwhile I lean up against my car and pull out a cigarette. //God I hate smoking, this habit is disgusting and dangerous to those around me. But, it does often serve as a method of introduction to strangers.// //ah, he'll interact with me if I ask for light and offer him one, excellent// "Hey, buddy? You gotta light?" I ask, tinging my voice with a bit more hope that truly necessary, enough to indicate that I would really like a light. "Uh, yeah." He walks over to me, looks like he's still in pain. //God, if the demon who did this to him is a f*@king Demon I'd sure like to rip him a new one, to hit home the point// "Thanks, man," I say. "Hey you know any good bars in town?" //ouch, that sure tripped off his emotional state! he's fricking trying to numb out on me// //if I just ask him messed up his leg so I can take him out, while showing him my gun, he'll talk// He stands there in thought. "Never mind," I say calmly, as though I'm suddently uninterested. "Look, I'm working with a special anti-crime unit, and I couldn't but notice that you're walking funny, as though you've been recently assaulted." //that got his interest, wow!!!, look at those emotions fly// "If you would be willing to give me any leads, that'd make my job a lot easier, 'cause whomever did this to you is likely the person I'm looking for anyway." "Check out the State Street Smiling Skull, man." He says, grimacing, "Big guy, tatoo of an American Eagle on his right arm," he says, pointing to his upper bicep. "Thanks," I say, apparently pleased. "Thanks for the light," I say, pressing a fortune cooking into his hand." //the fortune cookie reads --He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.-- // //let's go see if I can find some wretched Devils to kill by the Sword . . .// ******** I dunno, just an attempt to examine the mentality of one who's actions are wholly separated from their emotions. - -Perry, kfc perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 15:40:51 -0700 From: "Phillip Des Jardins" Subject: Re: IN> A Kyriotate Archangel > Again to remind you guys > > Truth, Devotion, Motion, Balance, Honour, *Control*, Interaction, Guidance > I think a better Word for the Kyriotate would be Perspective. After all, that's what they're best at, seeing the universe through the eyes of many at once. Phillip, Angel of Reinventing The Wheel ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 18:49:56 -0400 From: Amanda Kilgore Subject: Re: IN> "Bright (nosed) College Days..." I'm not sure if I should jump in here or not, but what the hey. > BTW, the offering > thing is apparently real, or so says my girlfriend. When I was looking to go there... admittedly this was in '93... I didn't see evidence of it. I did get to rub the nose though. It was warm. :-) > ... Well, in a Bright campaign that'd be enough to > make the Host quietly ignore any random ethereal > bronze turtle manifestations that they might see. > There are more important things to worry about, > frankly. Perhaps this has something to do with why the statues are bolted onto heavy concrete blocks? Supposedly, on year (no idea how long ago) the statue was stolen by a rival team. Went missing for some time, again I don't know when, but was finally found... on a beach in Florida. Maybe even Ethereals like a vacation in the sun and surf now and again? (I'll be hiding now.) Amanda "yes, my school mascot is an orange and maroon turkey, you got a problem with that?" Kilgore ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 19:25:44 -0400 From: "S.D." Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Backwards or Low Contrast >> Right now, about all I have is a few snippits on Kobal, Archangel of >>Laughter (mostly based on the Dark Victory writeup) and lots of details >>about swapped Malakim and Lilim. (Which happens to be my favorite part of >>the setting... ^_^) > >You too? I felt in order ot do the setting justice I'd have to do it. And >thus it is th -ONLY- time you will ever here me talk about Dark Malakim as a >concept and take it seriously. The Lilim, on the other hand, required a >severe makeover to reconcile the fact that they were created from a >different standpoint entirely: in Counterpoint (the name of the setting), >Lilim can't collect Geasa from people, instead their ability to sense Needs >is far more sophisticated, allowing them to tell more than simply -what >someone needs. Hmm. I don't have as much on the Lilim as I thought I would have. ^_^;; However, I'm thinking sensing Needs in the truest sense of the term (not what a person *wants* to have, what a person really, truly, desperately *NEEDS* to have) and possibly adding something like high-check-digit Elohim-resonance to it. And/or my interpretation of Dominic's Bright resonance (how far a person's willing to go to fulfil a Need). Malakim, on the other hand... I've got a *lot*. How'd you write them up? (Creation, Superiors, and the like.) Mine's rather...odd. ^_^;; I have them as effectively canon-Lilim at birth and with Superior arrangements, except nearly invariably they stick with their creator... ...Laurence. See what I mean? ^_^;; And I still haven't finished interpreting my polarized/reinterpreted Words...Or deciding if I'm going to rename people or not. (I've got names that are insanely appropriate for a Bright Andre and (my concept of) Kobal...Whether I'm going to *keep* them is the question.) *And* I need to figure out what to do with *Lucifer*...Keep him as canon, replace him... Actually, that reminds me. Which Words did you pick out for the AAs/DPs? Besides obvious things like Andre as AA/Love, or just swapping Baal/Michael and Belial/Gabriel. ~S.D. Ryukage http://fly.to/sd_nexus ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ (M) "A little humor never hurt anyone..." (K) "Other than you, you mean?" Mischief & Kento Rei Fuan, 'Setsuna no Kagami' ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 16:31:19 -0700 From: "Phillip Des Jardins" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Backwards or Low Contrast As for Words, I specifically didn't swap anyone, with the possible exceptions of Gabriel/Belial (still mulling over them). I wanted each to be an honest approximation of their Fallen/Redeemed selves. I got a lot of my inspiration from seeing other people's write-ups on some of them (Most notably Maurice's Oops Cycle and I think it was Micheal Walton who did Fallen Novalis and Micheal). The only people I didn't change were Yves and Kronos, since I felt they weren't really capable of Falling or Redeeming. They're just concepts in the Symphony, moreso than any other Superiors. The Malakim for Counterpoint, btw, were born out of the sense of outrage and betrayal inherent to the Rebellion, and are devoted to the goal of corrupting all aspects of the Symphony. They have the ability to see what any person's price is, that is to say what they could offer to make that person do something, well, evil. Effectively, they make contracts with people (similar to Geasa) like the Lilim in Canon do, but inestead of being about Needs, it's about Price. The Words: Blandine: Princess of Desires Christopher: Prince of Immaturity David: Prince of Prejudice Dominic: Prince of Tyranny Eli: Prince of Plagues Gabriel: Princess of Fire Janus: Prince of Chaos Jean: Prince of Insanity Jordi: Prince of the Jungle Khalid: Prince of Fanaticism Kronos: Prince of Fate Laurence: Prince of Carnage Litheroy: Prince of Forbidden Knowledge Marc: Prince of Exploitation Michael: The First Balseraph, Prince of Betrayal. Micheal isn't technically a Superior in this setting, as he takes Lucifer's place. Novalis: Princess of Thorns Zadkiel: Princess of Isolation Alaemon: Archangel of Mysteries Andrealphus: Archangel of Love Asmodeus: Archangel of Justice* Baal: Archangel of Valor Beleth: Archangel of Fear Belial: Archangel of Flame Fleurity: Archangel of Relief Haagenti: Archangel of Gusto Kobal: Archangel of Laughter Lilith: Archangel of Freedom Lucifer: Archangel of Light Magog: Archangel of Fortitude Malphas: Archangel of Individuality Mammon: Archangel of Generosity. Nybbas: Archangel of Communication Saminga: Archangel of Death Valefor: Archangel of Change Vapula: Archangel of Knowledge Yves: Archangel of Destiny * My GF, a bona-fide Sailor Moon fanatic, pointed out to me the fact that I'd opened up some interesting thoughts when I put these two Words right next to each other. :) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 20:03:54 -0400 From: Daniel Sauve Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Backwards or Low Contrast On Mon, 21 May 2001 16:31:19 -0700, "Phillip Des Jardins" wrote: > As for Words, I specifically didn't swap anyone, with the possible >exceptions of Gabriel/Belial (still mulling over them). I wanted each to be >an honest approximation of their Fallen/Redeemed selves. I got a lot of my >inspiration from seeing other people's write-ups on some of them (Most >notably Maurice's Oops Cycle and I think it was Micheal Walton who did >Fallen Novalis and Micheal). The only people I didn't change were Yves and >Kronos, since I felt they weren't really capable of Falling or Redeeming. >They're just concepts in the Symphony, moreso than any other Superiors. Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Backwards or Low Contrast Phillip Des Jardins wrote: > Haagenti: Archangel of Gusto You have mentioned this one to me before. Then as now, I am not sure that is really what a Haagenti Archangel would be like. May I humbly suggest, instead: Haageti, Archangel of the Feast. And allow me to add this; Back when i was a Christian Church Camp going kind of guy, there was a tradition for the camp I went to; the Agape feast. The practice was to share bread and wine (well, grape juice) with everyone. But there was a catch; You could only feed one another, not yourself. I could elaborate if you like, in private email. Suffice it to say, the tradition was not original to the church camp. Feasting, as a celebration of times of plenty, has been around for a long time. And, of course, it leaves room for an Prince(ess) of Famine. Maybe Novalis? Just a thought. be well. be loved. -Daiv ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 20:41:12 -0400 From: "S.D." Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Backwards or Low Contrast > As for Words, I specifically didn't swap anyone, with the possible >exceptions of Gabriel/Belial (still mulling over them). I wanted each to be >an honest approximation of their Fallen/Redeemed selves. I got a lot of my >inspiration from seeing other people's write-ups on some of them (Most >notably Maurice's Oops Cycle and I think it was Micheal Walton who did >Fallen Novalis and Micheal). The only people I didn't change were Yves and >Kronos, since I felt they weren't really capable of Falling or Redeeming. >They're just concepts in the Symphony, moreso than any other Superiors. Well, some of them I swapped because 1) they're obvious pairs when they aren't Redeemed *with* the other Word around (Lightning/Technology, Divine and Infernal Fire, etc) and 2) I'm lazy. ^_^;; I'm still tweaking it, though. And after reading some of the changed versions others have written, I'm redoing words. (ex. I was missing Khalid for some reason, but now he's Prince of Delusion - appropriate for a Habbalite, no? ^_~) Others, I kept with their original Words, or changed them only a bit, because of how close my perceptions of the Divine and Infernal counterparts were (notably Laurence, who's still The Sword, and Lilith, who's just changed to Free Will.) And some I just stole shamelessly from other sources (like Nybbas, AA of Communication, or Asmodeus, AA of the Promise. And I'm debating whether to switch Jordi to Genocide, as someone - can't remember who - wrote up, or keep him as Recession.) > The Malakim for Counterpoint, btw, were born out of the sense of outrage >and betrayal inherent to the Rebellion, and are devoted to the goal of >corrupting all aspects of the Symphony. They have the ability to see what >any person's price is, that is to say what they could offer to make that >person do something, well, evil. Effectively, they make contracts with >people (similar to Geasa) like the Lilim in Canon do, but inestead of being >about Needs, it's about Price. Hmm. Interesting idea...I was planning *something* with the chains, but not sure which...Maybe blind duty? Ideas, ideas... ^_^ >The Words: >Blandine: Princess of Desires >Christopher: Prince of Immaturity Oddly enough, I made him Despair. From childlike innocence (and hope) to cynical 'experience' and lack of trust... >David: Prince of Prejudice I didn't change him much. From Stone to Ice (heavily emphasizing the coldness...hmm. Maybe I should consider a Band-change to Habbalite; Ice is starting to seem rather Punisher...) >Dominic: Prince of Tyranny Heh. No imagination on my part; I picked The Inquisition. ^_^;; >Eli: Prince of Plagues This I can't see. I went straight for Destruction as a temporary measure, though I'm debating Entropy or Chaos, but I can't see Plagues. >Gabriel: Princess of Fire >Janus: Prince of Chaos He was one of the ones I swapped. Though most of those I'll likely change. For some reason I'm picturing Rebellion, though... >Jean: Prince of Insanity >Jordi: Prince of the Jungle >Khalid: Prince of Fanaticism Mentioned my Words for the last two, and I Word-swapped Jean and Vapula. >Kronos: Prince of Fate I actually exchanged Kronos and Yves. Though I have this idea running around in the back of my head for Kronos as AA of Time or Necessity... >Laurence: Prince of Carnage >Litheroy: Prince of Forbidden Knowledge Mentioned Laurence; Word-swapped Litheroy and Alaemon. >Marc: Prince of Exploitation I have Gambling, because I couldn't think of a better way to phrase it. ^_^;; >Michael: The First Balseraph, Prince of Betrayal. Micheal isn't technically >a Superior in this setting, as he takes Lucifer's place. That's what I'm still arguing with myself over. I've got another mini idea, based vaguely on Tattered Symphony, of Michael and Lucifer (assuming Michael *is* the Firstborn, period, and Lucifer came right after) pulling a Cain and Abel, or something like that... >Novalis: Princess of Thorns >Zadkiel: Princess of Isolation I don't have a good Word for Novalis; as a temporary thing, I gave her Fleurity's. And Zadkiel is Apathy. >Alaemon: Archangel of Mysteries See Litheroy comment. >Andrealphus: Archangel of Love >Asmodeus: Archangel of Justice I swiped my Word for Asmodeus from the Sliders bits on the Fiat Justitia page: The Promise. Though Justice seems *very* good for him... (Or for Dominic, for that matter.) >Baal: Archangel of Valor >Beleth: Archangel of Fear >Belial: Archangel of Flame >Fleurity: Archangel of Relief Same for all except Fleurity. Him I gave Novalis', till I think of something better. >Haagenti: Archangel of Gusto Haagenti's giving me problems. I'm not sure about Gusto, but... [shrugs] >Kobal: Archangel of Laughter >Lilith: Archangel of Freedom Mentioned what she is already; Kobal's the same. >Lucifer: Archangel of Light >Magog: Archangel of Fortitude Missed him on my list. >Malphas: Archangel of Individuality I got him before I saw Oops. ^_^ Trust. >Mammon: Archangel of Generosity. Charity in mine. (I can't resist pulling Virtues/Vices and the like.) >Nybbas: Archangel of Communication Ditto. You get it from Dark Victory? >Saminga: Archangel of Death Currently debating Death or Life. >Valefor: Archangel of Change >Vapula: Archangel of Knowledge Does Raphael come into this anywhere? >Yves: Archangel of Destiny Definitely want to see this when it's up. ^_^ ~S.D. Ryukage http://fly.to/sd_nexus ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Look instead at what [the sun] does to the land--the hollows filled by light, as Water fills hollow stones and Air fills the hollow caves and Fire fills the hollow hearth. The light moves, caresses the Earth like a lover, warms the Air, sparkles across the Water, finds its mate in the Fire. Of these four things, all are made. Lady Andrade of Goddess Keep to Princess Tobin of Radzyn Keep, 'Dragon Prince' ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2237 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.