From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat May 26 20:04:17 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06664 for ; Sat, 26 May 2001 20:04:17 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id UAA23773 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 26 May 2001 20:03:32 -0500 Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 20:03:32 -0500 Message-Id: <200105270103.UAA23773@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2243 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, May 26 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2243 In this digest: IN> Asian Archangel Re: IN> IN CCG? Re: IN> Welcome to Fantasy Island Re: IN> Call for Papers (OOPS/Galahad/Heresy) IN> Re:Dumbing Down ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 19:01:12 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Asian Archangel >This version makes more sense. One wonders what the >Ethereal Shang-Ti would think of him, though. };> I think cheap immitation does it best. Just like the Ethereal god Mithras is actually just humanity's conception of the Archangel Michael fighting Baal in my game. When Shang-Ti the Archangel was let slip by his servitors and saints, and people made HIM God with an elaborate myth set the Ethereal god was created and he no doubt believes the Archangel of bureaucracy is a copy of him to usurp his worshippers. I personally like the idea of Heaven having many elements of the paradises of many worlds with Valkyrie Mercurians of War in the glades sent to comfort the spirits of slain Vikings who chose thier honor over their gods, Beutiful Muses of Eli greeting those creators who worship the Greek Pantheon in the Elysium Fields (Novalis's Glade), and whatnot. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 19:14:34 -0400 From: Jason Schneiderman Subject: Re: IN> IN CCG? >Awhile ago I was working on an IN adaptation of VTES, since that's >my card game of choice. (Despite the fact that I have little interest in >the WoD as a roleplaying setting, I think Jyhad is probably the best CCG >ever designed... Something that Jyhad lacks, though, is player affiliation as opposed to character affiliation, which I think an IN CCG would need. In Jyhad, your characters have a "clan" affiliation. Tusk the Talebearer is a Nosferatu; Ulugh Bey is a Tremere. The characters have factions. You, in your role as a Methuselah, do not have such an affiliation. You may play a deck filled with Gangrel, but you don't play a "Gangrel Deck," except colloquially. Compare this with a game like L5R, wherein you might have a Crane deck and bring in Crane Samurai or Phoenix shugenja. This, in my eyes, better reflects the feel of In Nomine, where the player's role is that of an Archangel or Demon Prince bringing forth his or her Servitors. The choice of Superior should add flavor to the game play. (As a thought exercise, contrast both of these with I:NWO, which has player affiliation but not character affiliation.) * * * * * Jason Schneiderman jadasc@ma.ultranet.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 01:25:06 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Welcome to Fantasy Island > >Roarke >Elohim of Dreams >Master of the Realms of Night >Master of Divine Knowledge >The Seneschal of Fantasy Island >Rites: >* Cure a human of his illusions about life Unforunately, in reality, this would shatter a person's psyche, forcing him/her to recognize that her/his life is constantly in danger, that s/he has little to no chance of ever being important to society at large, and that the likelihood of finding true love is next to nil. Studies indicate that people who maintain a very realistic view of the world (realistic defined as taking an equal measure of positive and negative potential for the future) tend to (a) have less happy lives (b) achieve less (healthy family, good friends, good love, and monetary security) and (c) not surprisingly, have lower self-worth. Perhaps this Rite should revised to something along the lines of: * Cure a human of detrimental illusions of about his life. or even * Foster positive self-image in someone After all, a positive self-image is usually based upon several Fantasies: (a) I am above average. (b) People like me. (c) I can achieve; I am not a failure. The irony is that fostering these illusions can help to turn them into a reality (at least, that's that the psychologists are telling us, I think they just want us to stop being realistic just so we can feel better about ourselves - bastards). - -Perry, kfc perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 13:52:17 From: "Michael Cleveland" Subject: Re: IN> Call for Papers (OOPS/Galahad/Heresy) >The Steering Committee for Litheroy's Abbey is calling >for papers for the upcoming 7,542nd Annual Pan-Entity >Symposium on Triplanar Affairs. From - Administration of Lightning Laboratories To - Administration of Lightning Laboratories Re - Pan-Entity Symposium / Purity Crusade - -------------- 'Archangel' Jean, Since receiving word of the latest PES, I've been giving quite a bit of thought to the topic of the year. I've decided to send something in as your associate Litheroy has requested, however I've found it somewhat difficult to do given the level of 'security' that's found at most of the Divine Tethers and the lack of an E-Mail address to send papers to. Out of 'respect' for your lesser associates fragile egos, I've decided to not break into a Tether to deliver this. Instead, I've hacked into one of your personal Email accounts to deliver this to you. It's small, you apparently weren't using it much, and it allows for a certain amount of room to avoid your Bright-Eyed Boy, Laurence. It also allows you to plug up (this hole in) your security, as you'll undoubtedly trace it back and find it. I think you'll see the logic in keeping this (somewhat less than) minor breach of security from the rest of your associates. Tf you don't feel the need to tell them, neither do I. The private lesson I meant to teach you will have been learned by the time you find the error in the firewall's programming. I look forward to reading the next copy of The Divine Revelation to see comments on my entry. (In)Sincerely, Coyote Spirit - Independent Ethereal Trickster / Teacher / Genius Reincarnation 15,297 (And Counting) - ------------------------------ The Purity Crusade of 715 was the expression of the wishes of a small portion of the Divine Host to see the masses of Ethereals brought under Divine Control, or to see their elimination. It stands as one of the most defining moments in Ethereal/Celestial relations, and as the most poignant example of how a 'Good Idea' can be taken far beyond its realistic breaking point. In this short paper, the opinions of one of the Ethereal 'Gods' will be expressed, as well as first hand accounts of what transpired. Many of the Ethereals that are still left have a very one-sided picture of the Purity Crusade, which is quite easily understood - the War of Divine Agression is where many of the current attitudes were formed. The Infernal Hordes have done nothing to hinder their views, and the actions of the Tsayadim have reinforced the image of the Host as a group of psychotic killers. The Word of Divine Purity has become synonomous with Intolerance and murder as a result. Although this interpretation of Divine Purity is considered to be nothing more than Infernal Propaganda, consider the facts - 1. According to Judgment-Internal documentation, approximately 70% of the Ethereal population was exterminated inside a 30 year period. The number of Ethereals killed in the thousand year period before the Crusade would have roughly equaled the _confirmed_ body count that was accounted for in two months of the Crusade. 2. Public knowledge of the Crusade tells of Tsayadim raiding the Divinely Held portion of the Marches for Ethereals. Dream-Internal documentation that has been captured reports something much more disturbing to the Host. On several occasions, the Servitors of Purity did assault, and in certain cases kill, Servitors of Dreams that were attempting to protect Ethereals. Unsubstantiated rumors persist that Laurence, then Angel of The Sword, was involved in such operations. (As several of my prior reincarnations who were slain by Laurence recall, however, this never occured to their knowledge. In point of fact, Laurence was reported to have _prevented_ this from happening on several occasions.) 3. Game, Media and Nightmare reports indicate that while the number of Ethereals in Hell's service jumped by over 7000% in the years immediately following the Crusade, the number of Ethereals actively involved in Infernal Operations only rose by 15%. Game Internal reports suggest that the surveys taken find overwhelmingly that protection from Uriel was the cause of the move to Nightmare Realms. While there is much more information that could be presented, the basic information is either already known, or is not important at this point. In order to make this a more accurate assessment of the Crusade and its effects, let us move on to a different point of view. While most of the Ethereals believe that The Host was out to get them, the truth is a bit different. While there was an appearance of a united front on the side of Heaven, when observed closely there were quite a few cracks in the facade. Few Ethereals have ever taken this into account, due to their lack of knowledge as to what the real political situation was. While the 'Archangel' of Divine Judgment has never to my knowledge given a final statement regarding the subjective 'Rightness' or 'Wrongness' of the Purity Crusade, the opinions of certain participants are known. The 'Archangels' of Creation, Dreams and Flowers are all known to been opponents of the Crusade, where the 'Archangels' of Purity, Stone, and The Sword are known to have been in support of it. It should be noted that as Laurence was not an 'Archangel' at the time, he did not command a sufficiently large power block to have prevented the Crusade, even had he wished to. Another point that is often overlooked is that while many of the Host may have followed orders given by their superior officers, not all of them followed them willingly. An escape that one of my prior incarnations remembers occurred because several Servitors of Purity happened to 'trip' thus allowing him the chance to run. Another story that has been told tells of Servitors of Stone announcing their affiliations openly and loudly, thus allowing the Ethereals time to escape, and also allowing them to know not to strike first. Finally, I think that in order to understand the Purity Crusade, delving into the mind of Uriel is necessary. Fortunately for all of us, Uriel is no longer here for us to ask questions of. Having never personally met the man, I can not pass judgment, or Judgment, on him. I can speak about what I personally know to be true, however. When you hold an Ethereal concept, or a Celestial Word, you become a part of the Symphony, and everything that you perceive is filtered through that Word. Through the eyes of Purity, I can only imagine what the world must have looked like, but I can see it as being very much black and white. Either something was created by 'God' or it was not, in which case it needed to be purged. I can imagine it being almost painful for him to see the world filled with the influences of the Divine, the Infernal and the Ethereal, without the blinders that we all put up that allow us to see things without knowing their origins. And like most rational people, he tried to make that pain stop in the simplest way he knew how. I see Uriel's recall to the Upper Heavens as an attempt to allow that pain to stop, in a place where there was absolute Purity. Without the Corporeal, Ethereal and Infernal influences on him, with luck he should return to his senses and be able to see his actions from a logical point of view. At that point, perhaps he can set certain things to right. Or perhaps not - there is no way to know for certain except to watch and wait. In summation, the Purity Crusade was a debacle for the Heavenly Host, a triumph for the Infernal Hordes, and a tragedy for the Ethereal planes as a whole. But while the end result was one of utter horror, and the reasons that it was embarked upon may never be fully known, the Crusade was fulfilled by individuals, some of whom believed in their cause, and some of whom had doubts. To cast a blanket Judgment on the Crusade is to ignore the contributions of the countless number of people who, right or wrong, recognized or not, did everything they could to further their version of Purity. Whether it was those who stood for the Purification of the World by fire, those who had the Purity of Purpose to oppose what they thought was wrong, or those who simply wanted the Pure and simple right to live, all of them did what they thought was the right thing. In the end, only the Historians and the dead can judge them. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 10:47:56 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re:Dumbing Down > Dumbing Down (Will) Default -2 [snicker] James. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2243 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.