From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed May 30 21:13:50 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06986 for ; Wed, 30 May 2001 21:13:49 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id VAA16799 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 30 May 2001 21:12:20 -0500 Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 21:12:20 -0500 Message-Id: <200105310212.VAA16799@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2248 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, May 30 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2248 In this digest: Re: IN> Paper on the Purity Crusade Re: IN> Quirky angel of Destiny Re: IN> Re: Papers on the Purity Crusade IN> Re: Quirky Destinarian IN> Archangel Raziel (Part II) Re: IN> Archangel Raziel Re: IN> Archangel Raziel (Part II) Re: IN> Archangel Raziel Re: IN> IN CCG - Discords IN> One more question, this time on skills... RE: IN> Archangel Raziel (Part II) Re: IN> Archangel Raziel (Part II) IN> Archangel Raziel (Part III) Re: IN> Consider Believers Re: IN> IN CCG - Discords Re: IN> Paper on the Purity Crusade Re: IN> Consider Believers Re: IN> Paper on the Purity Crusade Re: IN> One more question, this time on skills... Re: IN> Consider Believers IN> Crusade Symposium Re: IN> Re: In CCG Re: IN> Paper on the Purity Crusade IN> Re: Call for Papers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 08:58:23 -0700 From: "Phillip Des Jardins" Subject: Re: IN> Paper on the Purity Crusade > Sonaciel, Seraph of Lightning. I liked this one. I'm personally of the opinion that the Crusade was not a good idea, but this gave me some thought. It felt a little more like an Elohite argument, though. Phillip, Mercurian of Novalis The Happy Shiny Mercurian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 09:27:44 -0700 From: edenesque@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Quirky angel of Destiny May I join in the chorus of people asking, "Where are the rest of his characteristics?"<<< *blink* I thought I included them. Four points per force.<<< Oh. I guess that's what I get for making characters in the rulebook style, without the rulebooks. :P ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 09:25:44 -0700 From: edenesque@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Re: Papers on the Purity Crusade Oooh. The Symposium's first academic Feud! Thanks, guys! :) <<< *laugh* Thanks Moe! This should be good. :) *goes off to arm Onariel with another verbal bomb...err...argument...for her detractors.* :P ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 09:30:01 -0700 From: edenesque@juno.com Subject: IN> Re: Quirky Destinarian > Let me know what you think. :) Liked a lot. Now all we need is for a friendly Balseraph to explain to him that he's got Fate & Destiny mixed up "Don't be daft, he can't be DESTINED to get killed, even if it will save other lives; clearly the make lots of money option is his Destiny" and he'll be ready to think about a new Superior.....<<< Yeah, but would Kronos take him? I mean, as Michael mentioned, it does take guts but not brains to question Yves and Quicin is awfully independent-minded. Do you think Kronos would want that in an Impudite of Fate? ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 10:23:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: IN> Archangel Raziel (Part II) And now for the boring game mechanics. 0;> CHOIR ATTUNEMENTS Seraphim Seraphim of Mysteries are masters of conversational misdirection; they add their Celestial Forces to the TN of any use of Fast-talk skill. They also do not earn Dissonance for lies of omission; they can leave out information as long as they don't utter actual falsehoods. Cherubim (Restricted) These Guardians can attune to media -- books, computer disks, microfilm, etc. -- and have total recall of all information contained therein for as long as the attunement lasts. This gives the angel a Knowledge skill in the appropriate area at a level up to his Ethereal Forces (depending on how much information is contained in the attuned media). Ofanim (Restricted) Ofanim of Mysteries are disturbing to other Wheels. They don't say much and often sit still -- but their minds are always in motion. These angels built of raw curiosity can use their Resonance to find the solution to a mental problem. This doesn't instantly give them the answer; it merely tells them what questions to ask, which books to read and whom to ask for advice. Elohim (Restricted) Raziel's Powers can peer into a person's subconscious mind and hidden memories. In addition to the normal information gained from its Resonance, the Elohite learns one thing that the subject has been keeping from herself or that she has forgotten (on her own or because her mind has been tampered with). The CD of the Resonance roll is the GM's guide for the potential importance of the secret (CD of 1 = "Where did I leave my keys?" while CD of 6 = "I know where the Grail is hidden."). Raziel"s Dissonance condition is the angel's guide for what to do with the information. This Attunement will defeat Alaemon's Seal of the Confessional Attunement. Malakim The only aggressive Attunement granted by Raziel is the ability to erase information from books, computer disks and other media with a touch. Only one specific piece of information can be removed (an address, a name, a phone number, etc.), but the angel can perform multiple applications of this power on the same medium. This Attunement does not work on living beings! Kyriotates (Restricted) Kyriotates of Mysteries are real homebodies; they can possess buildings. To be precise, they can remain on the Corporeal Plane without Hosts by anchoring at least three Forces to a man-made structure. The building must be a repository of knowledge (i.e. a library or school) or a place of mystery (a Masonic lodge, Stonehenge, Fort Knox, etc.). The anchored Forces are not available for possessing Hosts. The angel can manifest a celestial form while anchored, but any additional presence must be through Hosts. If the anchored Forces leave the building, the Kyriotate has the normal time limit in which to find a Host unless he has one already. The Domination's senses don't work normally within the building, but he knows its condition as if he had a Cherubic attunement to it. He also knows the approximate location of his celestial form and any Hosts in relation to the building; this is limited to distance and direction. Mercurians (Restricted) In addition to the normal information gained from the Mercurian Resonance, a Mercurian of Mysteries gains knowledge of who within range of his Resonance knows a particular secret. The angel must be aware of that secret himself and must think about it as he invokes his Resonance. Bright Lilim (Restricted) A Daughter of Mysteries is the most intriguing of her kind. She can amplify a person's memory of one aspect of her appearance (i.e. her dazzling smile, the smell of her perfume, the texture of her hair) so that it overwhelms all other details about her, including her name and how she looks. The subject may resist with a Will roll, but the level of any Geas that the Gifter has on that person is a penalty to the roll. The Lustful Discord/Disadvantage provides a similar penalty. Celestials and Ethereals add their Celestial Forces when resisting. Raziel has no Bright Lilim as of this writing; the first angel to provide him with one will surely be rewarded well. SERVITOR ATTUMENTS Book of Secrets The Book of the Angel Raziel is the oldest and greatest example of this Attunement. An angel of Mysteries is able to record supernatural information in any medium (usually print, but some Razielites have begun to use computers, video, or various forms of art). A Book of Secrets is used mainly to train Soldiers. A mortal who studies an angel's Book of Secrets gains insight into the Symphony and may acquire unusual powers thereby. At the very least, the subject will become Symphonically Aware and able to control Essence expenditures. A Book of Secrets can teach any Song or Rite that the angel knows, but only to beings who are able to learn them. Word-bound angels of Mysteries can grant their Rites and Attunements and the Sorcery Attunement through their Books, and Raziel has been known to reward effective Servitors by allowing their books to grant Ethereal and/or Celestial Connections. Gaining the benefits of a Book of Secrets requires long hours of study -- consult the chart below for the required study times. These figures assume that the student has text to read; double all times below for graphic media (i.e. paintings, sculpture, computer graphics). When making or upgrading a Book of Secrets, the angel spends an amount time equal to the time given below divided by 10 to implant each ability. For example, putting a Song into a book takes 20 hours. Book of Secrets Study Time Chart Attach Potential Force 320 hours Attunement 520 hours Control Essence Expenditure 160 hours Rare/secret language 120 hours Rite 80 hours Song 200 hours Symphonic Awareness 240 hours Guarded Words At the cost of 1 Essence, the angel will know if anything that he is about to say would lead the hearer toward either his Destiny or his Fate. This sense lasts for a number of minutes equal to the angel's Celestial Forces. All angels of Mysteries must have this Attunement. Shroud of Ignorance Raziel's Servitors partake somewhat of divine ineffability. If anyone other than a Superior attempts to gain any information about an angel with this Attunement (including detecting the Disturbance he makes when taking Celestial form or entering the Corporeal plane), subtract the angel's Celestial Forces from the TN. It should be noted that Superiors have all of the Attunements and Distinctions that they can grant. Raziel also has Shroud of Ignorance -- but for him it effects Superiors, too. Unseen Watcher The angel does not disturb the Symphony when playing sense-enhancing or information-gathering Songs (any Song of Sight, Symphony or Truth, the Ethereal Song of Tongues, etc.) or when spending Essence to enhance a Perception roll. DISTINCTIONS Vassal of Mysteries The angel can perform purely mental tasks at phenomenal speed; divide the normal time required by the angel's Ethereal Forces. Friend of Hidden Lore The angel has a personal language. Anyone who hasn't been taught this language cannot understand it by any means, not even with the Corporeal Song of Tongues. The personal language always has a written form and one other (either spoken or gestural). The Friend of Hidden Lore and Raziel are the only beings who know this language initially. The angel may teach Soldiers of God and other angels personally or through a Book of Secrets. If an angel or Soldier who knows such a personal language switches sides, he immediately loses the ability to comprehend such an inherently angelic tongue. Master of the Unknown Raziel's Masters can become undetectable to normal senses and technology at will and remain in that state for as long as they wish until they take an aggressive action. Supernatural powers (i.e. Songs and Attunements) and celestially-enhanced technology can still detect them, but at a penalty equal to the angel's total Forces. Raziel has only granted this Distinction twice -- both incidents involved the redemption of powerful Word-bound demons. HIGHER DISTINCTIONS Raziel has no standard Higher Distinctions. Instead, he creates a unique Distinction for any angel whom he wants to honor in this manner. The holders of such Distinctions are sworn to secrecy as to exactly what their titles are. These Distinctions are marks of Raziel's trust rather than badges of rank and grant the angel no added powers. Instead, they confer added responsibility and make the holder privy to higher security levels of information. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 The Aztecs had chocolate and human sacrifice. That's got to balance out on the karmic scale. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 10:33:38 -0700 From: "Phillip Des Jardins" Subject: Re: IN> Archangel Raziel Fun one, and definately an AA I'd make a character under. Mind you, he probably erks Litheroy to no end, but that's just the way it goes. Oh, and Kudos on the name choice. Times like this an obssession with judaic mystisism pays off. :::) Phillip, Mercurian of Novalis The Happy Shiny Mercurian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 12:39:17 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Archangel Raziel (Part II) Michael Walton wrote: > > And now for the boring game mechanics. 0;> Looks like you had some of the same notions I did, though I wrote him up as a very powerful Servitor, rather than an Archangel: http://www.amadan.org/Innomine/Raziel.html - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 10:48:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Archangel Raziel - --- Phillip Des Jardins wrote: > Fun one, and definately an AA I'd make a character > under. Thank you. > Mind you, he > probably erks Litheroy to no end, but that's just the way > it goes. Heh, heh -- see "Relations" in Part III. > Oh, and > Kudos on the name choice. Times like this an obssession > with judaic mystisism pays off. :::) I can't take credit for that one. Raziel Angel of Mysteries is a published NPC, he's just not an AA in canon (Canon? We don't need no steenkin' canon!). ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 The Aztecs had chocolate and human sacrifice. That's got to balance out on the karmic scale. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 13:24:02 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> IN CCG - Discords james walker wrote: > > Most people seem to like the idea of basing the game on V:TES/Jyhad > (although plundering ideas from other games will be needed - eg having > Superior cards similar to the Stronghold cards in L5R. I suggest having the > Superior's dissonance conditions (if any) on the Superior card, as well the > other global effects). I probably should read up on L5R again to get more ideas to stea-- err, borrow. ;) > What do people think of combining the choir/ band resonances & dissonances > with Discord cards? As an example, the following card: Too complicated. I think dissonance or Discord should just be something you can slap on a rival's Servitor (ala the "clan hoser" Master cards in VTES). Get enough "dissonance counters" and you risk Falling. Or something like that. > TRUTHFULNESS DISCORD (DIVINE) > Whenever the servitor makes a directed action, the target of the action may > ask one question regarding the acting servitors' action which must be > answered truthfully. If the servitor acts contrary to the stated answer, the > servitor must make a dissonance check. > If the servitor with the card is a Seraph, they may choose to answer > additional questions, and may inflict this Discord on any Servitor they > block for the remainder of the blocked action. Argh. Very similar to the Monocle of Clarity, which was banned in Jyhad for good reason: "Will you block my minions' actions for the rest of the game?" (Yes, you can add more restrictions to prevent that kind of abuse, but for every restriction there's another loophole, and then the errata for that card gets to be about a page long. In general, "meta-game" effects like that are just a bad idea.) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 16:07:20 -0400 From: "S.D." Subject: IN> One more question, this time on skills... (This'll be the last question-mail from me, I promise. [watches all the Seraphim flinch and glare at her]) So, I'm looking through the core book, and it says that skill (and song, etc) rolls are made at a target number of Characteristic + Skill Level. IIRC, it also says that Role skills must be taken at a level equal to...either status or level, I don't remember. Now, say, I've got a Role/4, Status 4, as an entertainer (musician.) I've also got Perception/8. Which gives me a target number on an Artistry (Instrument) roll of nine, even if that Artistry is just level 1. Which means I *should* roll a success roughly every three out of four rolls. While taking it at level 4, to match--whichever it is--would mean I automatically succeed, I'd rather sink those extra three points into, say, an upgraded Vessel. Or another Song. Or something else. So, canonically, would I *have* to take skills meant to back up my Role at the level of the roll or its status, especially with a target number that's that high *anyway*? And if so, is it Role level or status I need to match? ~S.D. Ryukage http://fly.to/sd_nexus ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ And so it came to pass. It all shall end. Not in a bang. Nor disappear in a whisper. But end it shall... ...End in tears. Reflections 6:34-36 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 14:25:51 -0600 From: "Julian Mensch" Subject: RE: IN> Archangel Raziel (Part II) > Looks like you had some of the same notions I did, though I wrote him up > as a very powerful Servitor, rather than an Archangel: > http://www.amadan.org/Innomine/Raziel.html I think Raziel is a fairly obvious idea -- he's just way too cool a mythical figure to leave out of IN. I was having thoughts about a Raziel as well, from a slightly different perspective -- the patron of Hermeticism, Christian theurgy and spiritual transformation, a counterpoint to Hatiphas. It surprised me that really cool angels with mythic precedent like Raziel, Azrael and Metatron got left out of the IN main book to make room for (IMO) somewhat silly angels like Jordi or Marc. I do love both the AA and Servitor writeups of Razzy, and may nick a few ideas from each for my own version (with proper credit given, of course). In short: this is cool. Thanks. - -- Julian Mensch ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 13:28:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Archangel Raziel (Part II) - --- David Edelstein wrote: > Looks like you had some of the same notions I did, though > I wrote him up > as a very powerful Servitor, rather than an Archangel: Wow, those are some scary similarities. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 The Aztecs had chocolate and human sacrifice. That's got to balance out on the karmic scale. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 13:34:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: IN> Archangel Raziel (Part III) This is it for this one. I have Superior opinions, too, but I've got to save something for the website. 0:;:> RELATIONS Most of Heaven doesn't know Raziel’s secret. This leaves him free to do his work without regard for politics. Not all of his fellow Archangels are happy with the way that he does his job, however. Raziel dislikes no one in Heaven, but his part in the War requires him to keep his distance from both Litheroy and Vocatiel, neither of whom is good at keeping secrets. Allied: Yves Associated: Dominic, Laurence Neutral: all others except... Hostile: Litheroy, Vocatiel (Blandine is hostile toward Raziel; Vocatiel is neutral) Rites * Solve a mystery* * Spend at least an hour providing clues to help humans solve a mystery* * Spend two hours researching ancient or hidden knowledge *This is worth +1 Essence if no supernatural powers are used. Chance of Invocation: None Raziel shows up when he's least expected -- and most needed. He cannot be invoked, but his Servitors know that he'll be there if his help is really necessary. SAMPLE MALAKITE OATHS * I will learn something new every day. * When dealing with mortals, I will never give a straight answer. * I will never tell all that I know about a situation except to my Archangel or by his order. * When I find it necessary to kill, I will do my best to make it look like an accident or natural causes. * I will not use violence until misdirection and guile have failed. * I will never speak the whole, unblemished truth to the forces of Hell. * I will encourage human curiosity by feeding it sparingly and keeping it hungry. ELEMENTARY, MY DEAR ANGEL: SERVITORS OF MYSTERIES Razielites, Detectives, Snoops Raziel’s angels are organized into cells of five angels each. Each cell member knows only the members of his own cell except for the leader, who reports to a more senior member in another cell. Angels of higher rank also know the cell leaders who report to them. Cells of rank and file angels report to cells of Word-bound, who in turn report to the Distincted who report to Raziel. The number and identities of the angels who serve Raziel are known only to him and God (Dominic and Laurence have been allowed to think that they know). Mysteries is the most egalitarian Word in Heaven; despite the stratification of angels based on holiness, choirism is not tolerated. Seraphim Raziel's Seraphim are hint droppers and clue providers. They are charged with giving out information (but not too much) to Humans. Cherubim Guardians in the service of Mysteries are archivists and loremasters. They know where the forbidden knowledge is and keep mortals away from it. Ofanim Ofanim are the primary detectives among Razielites. They seek and interpret clues to mysteries that require divine solutions. They also seek out evidence of Hellish activity and alert the Host as needed. Wheels are the best represented Choir in Raziel's service. Elohim Raziel's Powers are charged with recovering forgotten lore and information that has been wiped from a subject's conscious memory. They sometimes help out angels of Blandine and Christopher on the sly (their Choir Attunement is invaluable for retrieving repressed memories). Elohim among the Detectives are outnumbered by all other Choirs except for Bright Lilim. Malakim When evidence needs to be destroyed, Raziel sends a Malakite to do it. Virtues are called in whenever there is a case of "knowledge that Man was not meant to know." Raziel hates to destroy any knowledge, so he has few Malakim. Kyriotates Raziel uses Dominations to guard places of strategic importance to his Word. Their ability to be in several places at once is also a common means of communicating among Detectives. Most of Raziel's Tethers have Kyriotates as Seneschals. Mercurians Mysteries' Mercurians are spies and conspiracy busters. With a little preparation, they can find all of the members of a secret cabal. They are the second largest Choir in Raziel's service. Bright Lilim The job that Raziel plans for his Lilim (remember, he has none as of this writing) is as agents provocateur. Their Choir Attunement will allow them to go in, Geas a few targets into actions beneficial to Heaven and get out with no one able to identify them. RAZIEL'S CATHEDRAL: THE BLACK BOX This featureless cube made of black stone is located under Raphael's abandoned Cathedral. No one seems to know of its existence except for Raziel, his Servitors and possibly the Archangel of Destiny. What the Black Box contains and what goes on inside are mysteries known only to Raziel and his angels. Razielites cover their comings and goings from the area by maintaining the old Cathedral of Knowledge. Each Razielite keeps his Heart in a hidden place within the Black Box known only to him and Raziel. Angels of Mysteries sometimes amuse each other by giving their friends clues to where their Hearts are hidden; being given such a clue is a sign of supreme trust. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 The Aztecs had chocolate and human sacrifice. That's got to balance out on the karmic scale. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 16:38:30 -0400 From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" Subject: Re: IN> Consider Believers Maurice Lane wrote: > > Not Truth, necessarily, but true - from a certain > point of view, to quote that old Balseraph. :) Here's another one: - -*-*-*- No, I have no interest in worshipping your god. I could say I refuse because my father performed the upanayanam for me when I was seven, and because he taught me the Gayatri mantra, and I will disappoint him if I fail to observe the dharmas. I could say that I remember my mother chanting the Vishnu-sahasranaman, and that I remember her face as she praised Krishna and Rama, and I do not think that she was deluded. I could say that I feel the trod of Natarajan's dance as he balances the universe, that I hear Narasimha's roar as he tears apart the demon Hiranyakashapu -- that I am humbled by Anjaneya's devotion to Rama. That does not convince you; perhaps this will: I know about your Marches, and the creatures that lurk there. They are not the gods I worship -- they are creatures of maya. The five senses are wild horses, barely tamed by even the strongest will, and of course they will run riot when one sleeps and that self-control breaks. Perhaps, when my children are grown, I will become a sanyasi, and learn to control my senses even when I sleep. Or perhaps that will be another life -- I am not the dharmaraja, who knows everyone's karmas. You claim to also desire my enlightenment? Then prove it; punish those false ethereal beings, who pretend to the mantle of omnipotence. Even the ever-merciful Krishna eventually, after a hundred forebearances and hundred mercies, struck down the false Vasudeva. Emulate him, and strike down the spirits that pretend to bear the chakram and ride Garuda. - -*-*-*- Just because you believe doesn't mean you have to give a fig for some loser ethereals with similar names. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswcasa.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 15:40:41 -0500 From: Santiago Subject: Re: IN> IN CCG - Discords > > What do people think of combining the choir/ band resonances & dissonances >> with Discord cards? As an example, the following card: > >Too complicated. I think dissonance or Discord should just be something >you can slap on a rival's Servitor (ala the "clan hoser" Master cards in >VTES). Get enough "dissonance counters" and you risk Falling. Or >something like that. How about if Discords are like clan hosers, cards that can only be slapped on certain Choirs/Bands or Servitors of a certain Superior. If we want to include Dissonance at all, how about if it's some sort of counter that takes the place of essence; you can't spend it, but it counts towards a servitors current amount of essence, effectively lowering their capacity. It may be removable by some action of the Servitor's or through your (the Superior's) direct action, requiring the expenditure of your essence pool. - -- - -- Santiago ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 17:05:48 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Paper on the Purity Crusade At 8:06 PM -0700 5/29/01, Maurice Lane wrote: >--- Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> At 7:33 PM -0700 5/28/01, Maurice Lane wrote: >> >> >3) Sorry, Beth. I needed a good reference, and >> >Archives seemed logical. ;) >> >> No problem. So long as I don't have to >> write one... > >And here I went to so much trouble to come up with a >title that would tempt you*... ;) Well, if you can accept it being a few years late, when ze Princess of Cute has learned to amuse herself... >*BTW, picked up the Michael Longcor album with >'Monster in My Head' in it. SCARY Shedite song, >indeed. :) (Remember, everyone, respond to things like this off-list. Even if I did suggest it long and long ago... O:> ) - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. arcangel is nursing a trout with ARMS! ARMS that reach out and try to pound the keyboard! You say "And teeth. Ow." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 13:44:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Consider Believers - --- "Krishnaswami, Neel" wrote: > Just because you believe doesn't mean you have to give a > fig for some loser ethereals with similar names. Whoa! We're not worthy! We're not worthy! Thanks for the insight into that culture -- I certainly would never have thought of that. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 The Aztecs had chocolate and human sacrifice. That's got to balance out on the karmic scale. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 17:15:27 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Paper on the Purity Crusade At 8:58 AM -0700 5/30/01, Phillip Des Jardins wrote: >> Sonaciel, Seraph of Lightning. > >I liked this one. I'm personally of the opinion that the Crusade was not a >good idea, but this gave me some thought. It felt a little more like an >Elohite argument, though. What do you expect of a Seraph who was (presumably) created by an Elohite? (Or, if a fledged reliever who chose to serve Lightning, has been steeped in the Word and attitudes for a nice chunk of its existance?) O:> - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. arcangel is nursing a trout with ARMS! ARMS that reach out and try to pound the keyboard! You say "And teeth. Ow." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 17:21:41 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> One more question, this time on skills... At 4:07 PM -0400 5/30/01, S.D. wrote: [...] >So, canonically, would I *have* to take skills meant to back up my Role at the >level of the roll or its status, especially with a target number that's that >high *anyway*? And if so, is it Role level or status I need to match? Wouldn't you just know that I'd have left my book elsewhere... Canonically, yes, you'd have to take the skills, if that's what the book says. However, I can't think of a GM anywhere who wouldn't adjust that to just be a reasonable skill level. I certainly never bother to remember that level thing -- I tend to figure that if the target number is reasonable, skill/1 is fine. (Which does suggest it's a candidate for errata. Any opposed? I'll have to regard the text for a suitable replacement that floweth well upon the tongue.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 14:12:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Consider Believers - --- "Krishnaswami, Neel" wrote: > Maurice Lane wrote: > > > > Not Truth, necessarily, but true - from a certain > > point of view, to quote that old Balseraph. :) > > Here's another one: > (soft applause) ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/29/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 18:48:08 -0700 From: Anthony Damiani Subject: IN> Crusade Symposium (Geez.... I'm procrastinating writng a real paper by composing a fictional one. I must be sick...) My esteemed colleagues, Over the course of the past few centuries, a substantial amount of criticism and analysis has been leveled at the Purity Crusade and its ancillary movements, which has traditionally focused on the proper nature of the relationship between Heaven and the Ethereals. Was it ethical to kill millions of ethereals? Does Uriel's ultimate fate justify or invalidate this movement? Those familiar with my previous work will be aware of my long-held position on the matter; however, I would like to refocus our attention to the costs of the Crusade, not only the number of ethereal lives it took, but in terms of the diversion of angellic resources to the Marches, and the corresponding gains Hell was able to make as a result. It is, in fact, my contention that this movement represented dereliction of the duties implicit in Uriel's role of General of God's Armies, leading to disasterous consequences. To begin with, I agree with the many distinguished scholars which suggest that the Purity Crusade has its roots in the destruction of Beezlebub during the fall of Rome. One need not suggest that superior/superior combat can lead to madness (1) to believe that Uriel's expansion of his traditional duties-- combatting Hell and Corruption, promoting the cause of Purity-- into control of the Marches was a result of the fall of Corruption. Simply put, having vanquished his longstanding adversary in Corruption, he had vastly greater free resources (2), and searched for a way to put them to use, able to largely neglect corruption now that it was no longer organized and personified. Secondly, I wish to point to Beleth and the estimated two million ethereal entities (3), that found themselves forced into alliance with Hell as a result of that action. Measuring the damage done here in raw force totals is incomplete. It also represented a massive influx of research and new ideas into Hell. I've recently the data for an unpublished study that was in preparation by some of my colleagues IST Knowledge (Yandiel, et al.), before their untimely demise some ten centuries ago. This leads me to suggest that almost twice as much information flowed into Hell during the Crusade than has been generated in any comparable period, including a 43% increase in the number of known songs (4). An Infernal renaissance, as it were. So, from a hellish perspective, we see a confluence in factors: vacancy in corruption coupled with a relative absence of Heavenly pressure in regard to the efforts of the former soldiers of Beelzebub, combined with a massive influx of information and the corresponding research into new techniques. Now, our records on the matter are incomplete, but reports from defecting demons of Kronos (5) and Vapula (6) regarding the research conducted during this period suggest that substantial productive research was made by these former servitors of Beelzebub in researching corruption. Now, by agreement, the so-called 'Shal-Mari concordance', (7), each Prince appointed agents responsible for debreifing the Ethereals seeking asylum in Beleth's Marches and disseminating it through the rest of the hierarchy. Angels of Dominic and Lawrence have published studies attesting to the increased technical resources of Hell during this period (8,9). More interesting, however, is an examination of the agents responsible for facilitating this transference (10). Among the agents of Saminga involved in the initial debriefing of members of the Olympian and Egyptian Pantheons, and quite likely possibly others (for which records are unavailable to us) was a former servitor of Beelzebub, a Shedim known as Legion. It would not be irresponsible to suggest that this played an immediate and possibly crucial role in the subsequent development of Legion's It is therefore possible that, among the Purity Crusade's consequences, we must consider that it may have led /directly/ to the rise of Legion, and the resultant consequences (the death of Raphael, the elevation of Haagenti and the creation of Vapula). Charavin -Angel of Knowledge, IST Destiny (I'm too lazy to make-up footnotes here) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 18:35:05 -0700 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Re: In CCG My CCG friend mentioned that you all might try tweaking Apprentice (http://www.dragonstudios.com/apprentice/) to create an IN game . . . H'e'd love to join in on this discussion thread, but he isn't a member of the mailing list. He says (I quote): "www.dragonstudios.com made the program in the first place - however, I think that the updating is done via www.e-league.com ... however, the updates are pretty pointless, since they're just adding in additional magic cards and such, rather than alterations to the core program you'd just keep the main program, but alter the cardinfo.dat file to contain the information for the INCCG cards ... of course, you'd have to make sure that the game didn't contain elements that couldn't be simulated with Apprentice (or a lightly modified version thereof) ... it's easy (though time-consuming) to adjust Apprentice for other games because Apprentice doesn't actually "know" what the rules or cards are, it just provides an environment for moving your cards around in (for example, if I lightning bolt you for 3 damage, I tap a mountain, move the LB card from the hand zone to in play zone, you manually click your life down, then I move the LB from play zone to graveyard zone)" he can be emailed at daramere@hotmail.com and I've been forwarding all your CCG thread emails to him, and I believe he's read them all (except for the CCG-Discord thread) He's, uh, very familiar with In Nomine, and is a competitive CCG player (as in tournaments). Familiar with Magic, Star Trek, and a bunch of others, I think. - -Perry, KFC perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu NEW WEB PAGE!!!!!! http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd "As long as people will accept crap, it will be financially profitable to dispense it. " - --Dick Cavett ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 16:41:32 -0700 From: "Phillip Des Jardins" Subject: Re: IN> Paper on the Purity Crusade > What do you expect of a Seraph who was (presumably) created by an > Elohite? (Or, if a fledged reliever who chose to serve Lightning, > has been steeped in the Word and attitudes for a nice chunk of its > existance?) I stand, once again, humbly rebuked. Phillip, Mercurian of Novalis The Happy Shiny Mercurian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 12:03:02 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re: Call for Papers Hi. If you want a written copy of what I'm about to say, talk to that overworked reliever making notes. I can't write, so you'll have to get a copy from him. More importantly, I wasn't trained as a saga poet - if I had been, then you'd get something to remember! Still, maybe one of your skalds can knock my story into shape. I'm Yves Ransom - no not YOUR Yves, a different one. Yves means 'archer', and Ransom is the new way of saying Ranulfs' son. Everyone got that? Good. I'm one of the Blessed, and a retired Einheriar. My retirement wasn't my idea - one of Hell's sorcerers managed to kick me up here. I brained a demon first, which is why I've the right to be here. Sure, coming here was a shock, but Jack & Tollers [indicates a pair of Blessed who are smoking pipes] explained things to me. Now, the reason I'm going to talk about your war-ride is this: I was there, in both worlds. I'm a Saxon, and even once I'd loosed ever arrow, the Franks fell beneath my axe like wheat under a scythe, until one of your angels stood against me. There was a battle! When I was finally cut down by his sword, I rejoiced, for I knew that our epic battle had assured me of a fine seat in Woden's feasting hall. The long sleep claimed me, and I was in the hall- which was burning! A timber had fallen from the roof, crushing the long table, the women were screaming, and Woden's men strove to hold back your knights as they pushed in through holes they'd hacked in the hall. I was still gripped by battle rage, and rushed into the fray, burying my axe into a dark, gigantic knight. He lashed out with a blow that seared through my mind & soul as I twisted my axe deep in his body. No man could have survived that blow, but the knight still fought. The suddenly, he leapt back, ripping my axe from my hands, and in a voice as deep and cold as winter bade me depart the battlefield and seek my destiny elsewhere. Abandon Woden? I was a guest in his mead hall! Had I been in the rudest cot of my fiercest enemy, I would not have abandoned my host! I cursed the knight, damning him for insulting me, for daring to imagine the dishonour of refusing a pledge, of denying the claims of hospitality. The knight, who had feared no blow of my axe, cringed in shame, and then was gone, vanquished by the pain of dishonourable words. Alone I stood in the gap, blinded by smoke and the bright fire light, gulping up the star-touched air that rushed past my face into the hall. No foe stood before me. But then through the gap I held the women came, fleeing the flames, shielding their children with their bodies. Above them Woden's spirits flew through the smoke, behind them Woden and his warriors followed, guarding their retreat. Woden stopped before me, and as I knelt to pay homage he drew me to my feet and handed me a nobleman's sword, the hilt of gold studded with gems, the blade of fine steel, inlaid with silver and gleaming with powerful magics. I named the blade Brenris, and swore on the blade my loyalty to Woden. Four score and five scores of years have passed since Woden took me into his service. Demons and angels, spirits & ghosts, living Sorcerers and undead monsters have all fallen to Brenris - the sword Woden gave me. Yet my pride is dulled by the pain I feel for my noble lord. Once only the bravest, the boldest, the truest dared enter Woden's halls. Now the dregs of men slink into his halls, too feeble to serve the Risen Christ,they dare claim kinship with us. Do they strive to be noble, to be honourable, do they seek to out do one another with their hospitality, with their generous gifts? A scant few do. But we must hold our peace and listen as vermin seek to dictate to the All-Father when and how they will serve, or boast of the stingy gifts of essence they bring. Once we would have butchered such scum, and left their bodies to the wolves as a warning to the honourless, but now we must watch as our lord, generous beyond the reach of kings, wise with the ages, his sworn word stronger than the finest steel, gathers the crumbs of worship from this rabble as if he was a broken beggar, rather than our king. And I come here, and here you talk of 'justified', or 'right', or 'wrong' like a gaggle of peasants arguing over a pig. Did your thirst for honour die with Uriel? You choose the entire hosts of gods as your foes! You should shout of your courage to your God, and boast of your victories! Then the slain would rest easy, knowing that their final battles are remembered, that their names will live on as the worthiest foes to the mightiest of all warriors. When I entered this hall, where was the skald? Why did he not sing of the knight I felled? Was he not your knight? But no. You are ashamed of yourselves! Bah! What twisted your minds into the ways of foxes? By denying the courage of your warriors, you insult the fallen. Do you think that Woden is honoured by your shame? Had you boasted of your victory, he would rule his realm in pride. But instead you are ashamed! Shame? Had you struck a woman or child, you should feel shame. To strike the defenceless, to break your word, to fail to defend those under your care; these are the causes of shame. Your shame insults Woden; it says that you deem him as defenceless as a woman or a child, that you think that he could only exist under your protection, that his life was at the sufferance of your word. When did he swear allegiance to you? He did not. When did you exchange gifts with him, and swear brotherhood? You did not. No, he chooses to life and die by his own counsel, and will do so, whether you make amends or not. Your shame is a curse, and it sullies your honour as well as ours. If you value your honour, make amends. Offer a good weregild for the insult to my lord's pride, and since the praises of the fallen. Then the feud will end. And then? Should you still deem Woden your foe, then strike again! The skalds will sing of the mighty deed we shall perform, and our valour will be remembered throughout the ages. Should we fall, then we will still rejoice, knowing that our foes are mighty and true. If not, then raise the war banner against Hell, and the mightiest warriors of our peoples will stand together against the foe. We strive for Ragnarok, and as you strive for Armageddon. It is the warriors way, as it always was, as it always must be. But I must depart. I feel the cry of the Jacob's Ladder. Know that when I stand before your God, I will do so as a man, as a warrior. And as he bids me enter his Halls, I will remain true through the ages, true to my host. And when I meet Uriel, I will sing of his courage in withstanding the countless gods of the Marches, and he will recite the mighty warriors who fought beside me, and fell to his blade. But I say this; I will not speak of your whining tales of 'justified' or 'unprovoked' or worse the yapping slander that he was mad. Not yet; not until he has led us down to do battle in your Armageddon. Then he will know, that he may be avenged on those who sully his memory. [Turning to the pair of pipe-smoking Blessed] Remember my deeds in your sagas my friends! And know that I will recount yours to your God. Farewell! James. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2248 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.