From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Jun 14 11:44:46 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01769 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:44:46 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id LAA11851 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:43:04 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:43:04 -0500 Message-Id: <200106141643.LAA11851@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2263 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, June 14 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2263 In this digest: IN> The Marches Reclamation Program Re: IN> Iron Rev Superiors? IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2262 Re: IN> The Marches Reclamation Program IN> Re: The Marches reclamation program IN> Re:New Choirs/Bands IN> Re: Athena does Buffy. IN> Re: Attunements from the other side Re: IN> Re: Attunements from the other side IN> MarcFest: A Saint that he wouldn't like too much IN> Somebody had to go and talk about dinosaurs... Re: IN> Re:New Choirs/Bands Re: IN> Somebody had to go and talk about dinosaurs... Re: IN> MarcFest: A Saint that he wouldn't like too much Re: IN> Somebody had to go and talk about dinosaurs... Re: IN> Somebody had to go and talk about dinosaurs... Re: IN> Somebody had to go and talk about dinosaurs... IN> Iron Rev: Round Two Re: IN> Re:New Choirs/Bands Re: IN> MarcFest: A Saint that he wouldn't like too much IN> It's Gaiman, it's Celestial, but it ain't Good Omens... IN> Minor Choir: The Translators ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 18:31:23 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> The Marches Reclamation Program I disagree most heartily Moe. Nybbas would indeed do this very much because of what you said. Unfortunately the Media is spiralling out of control with the internet, rapid expansion, and this reknewed interest in *shudder* books. I also think he's firmly aware that his religeon of self-indulgence is while his main prodject....it's always good to have something to fall back on. It's not like these alliances of convienance usually last either, these sort of things happen all the time and only rarely like with Kobal and Haagenti due they form mutual dependancy or impossibly so, friendship. Also it's an inherently safe investment.... Beleth WANTS the Marches to become absolutely full of battle, bloodshed, and destruction and the best way to do that is to make a tragedy such as the fall of numerous dream worlds....in this case Blandine recognizes the danger but if she tries to bring it up to Laurence and the Council... A:) The Big boys will waltz right in and try to "help" Which anyone knows from a certain infamous idea between David and Michael that originated on this list is a VERY bad idea. B:) She's laughed completely off. The Purity Crusade Bias is not exactly gone here, Moe sure Jean could destroy Hollywood but do you honestly think Nybbas would care? Oh hell yes for about thirty seconds before he laughs his freaking hiney off, high fives Baal and says "it's time to rumble" as Nybbas floods the Earth with more of his propaganda about evil angels and is able to spread humanity's cultural concentrations outward.... Basically your asking Michael and Jean to devote valuable resources and MASSIVE ammounts of their own word which depend on humanity knowing lots about each other and being united (David, Marc, Novalis after all) to save a few ethereal realms!??!?!? They're fictional characters, yuck it up. michael actually prefers Beleth controlling the Marches to blandine and to an extent so does David. If best comes to best a Second Purity Crusade may occur and the Marches may be reduced to ashes by it as Beleth laughs and takes over the pieces....Nybbas himself rules the one unassailable aspect of humanity because it does almost as much good as evil, thus Heaven like freedom won't attack it. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 17:30:19 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Iron Rev Superiors? If nobody objects, I'll volunteer for the next round, and post the ingredients list about 10pm tonight. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:25:26 -0400 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2262 - -----Original Message----- From: in_nomine-digest To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Date: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 6:13 PM Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2262 >Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 23:23:20 -0400 >From: "Charles Phipps" >Subject: IN> The Marches reclamation program >A beutiful 22 something Susan warrior princess with a similar amazon lucy >for when Aslan has been killed for real..... ...Ok, now I feel like going into the Marches to kill some Demons... - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 17:20:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> The Marches Reclamation Program - --- Charles Phipps wrote: > I disagree most heartily Moe. That's cool. I still don't agree tht Nybbas would get away with it, but he might be sufficiently inexperienced to _try_ ... and get ultimately defeated by an unlikely group of heroes, which is really the ultimate reason for the exercise. :) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 06/05/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:39:02 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re: The Marches reclamation program > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - --MS_Mac_OE_3075359942_126625_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > inspiring folk to massace heroic > figures like God, Traditional American Icons, and other wonderful folk like > Alice in Wonderland into terrifying nightmarish creatures in order to hurt > human belief. .....oh dear...... The scary thing is, it could work. One a small scale Nightmare Trigger and the Songs of Nightmares would help - on a large scale, however: a number of stories etc have been modified to be more 'acceptable' - spreading a rumours of this happening in other works, eg that in 'the original draft' of LotR Frodo and Sam die on MT Doom after the destruction of the Ring, would aid the task. And play with stories about the authors - keep spreading rumours that Lewis Carrol was a child molester and dream up other rumours about the other authors. That would rapidly accelerate the process. >>It's an interesting idea, but Nybbas wouldn't go for >>it. >> >>Reason? Simple. >> >>Nybbas _likes_ the status quo. He ought to, because >>it favors him - and is inherently u n stable, to boot. Likes the stalemate, yes. But refuse to increase his market share? >>The Prince of the Media, parvenu that he might be, is >>probably bright enough to realize that his empire is >>jury-rigged. Every other Prince in Hell (except >>Vapula) enjoys the luxury of the fact that their Words >>are fundamentally independent of technology. That is, ultimately, part of the point. IF Nybbas can have broadcast from Dream Realms, he is no longer dependent on Technology. All he needs in one, nice dream real that mortals visit nightly and he's set for the long haul. >>But Nybbas? Nybbas' empire can be Turned Off. He's >>dependent on satellites, television sets, movie >>theaters, radio, CD players and various and sundry >>electronic devices to keep his Word strong. Remove >>any of them, and he takes a hit. Remove them _all_, >>and he's dead meat. Hurt, yes. Dead? Painful as it would be, Nybbas could survive - live performances would be sufficient. It's not like people are going to want to stop being entertained. Heck, he could have survived in Ancient Rome, gaining essence from the circuses! Sure he'd drop to being a minor Superior, but he'd manage. James James. - --MS_Mac_OE_3075359942_126625_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: The Marches reclamation program
> inspiring folk to massace heroic
> figures like God, Traditional American Icons, and other wonderful folk= like
> Alice in Wonderland into terrifying nightmarish creatures in order to = hurt
> human belief.
.....oh dear......

The scary thing is, it could work. One a small scale Nightmare Trigger and<= BR> the Songs of Nightmares would help - on a large scale, however: a number of=
stories etc have been modified to be more 'acceptable' - spreading a rumour= s
of this happening in other works, eg that in 'the original draft' of LotR Frodo and Sam die on MT Doom after the destruction of the Ring, would aid the task.
And play with stories about the authors - keep spreading rumours that Lewis=
Carrol was a child molester and dream up other rumours about the other
authors. That would rapidly accelerate the process.

>>It's an interesting idea, but Nybbas wouldn't go for
>>it.
>>
>>Reason?  Simple.
>>
>>Nybbas _likes_ the status quo.  He ought to, because
>>it favors him - and is inherently u n stable, to boot.
Likes the stalemate, yes. But refuse to increase his market share?

>>The Prince of the Media, parvenu that he might be, is
>>probably bright enough to realize that his empire is
>>jury-rigged.  Every other Prince in Hell (except
>>Vapula) enjoys the luxury of the fact that their Words
>>are fundamentally independent of technology.
That is, ultimately, part of the point. IF Nybbas can have broadcast from <= BR> Dream Realms, he is no longer dependent on Technology. All he needs in one,= nice dream real that mortals visit nightly and he's set for the long haul.<= BR>
>>But Nybbas?  Nybbas' empire can be Turned Off.  He's
>>dependent on satellites, television sets, movie
>>theaters, radio, CD players and various and sundry
>>electronic devices to keep his Word strong.  Remove
>>any of them, and he takes a hit.  Remove them _all_,
>>and he's dead meat.
Hurt, yes. Dead? Painful as it would be, Nybbas could survive - live perfor= mances would be sufficient. It's not like people are going to want to stop b= eing entertained.

Heck, he could have survived in Ancient Rome, gaining essence from the circ= uses! Sure he'd drop to being a minor Superior, but he'd manage.

James
James. - --MS_Mac_OE_3075359942_126625_MIME_Part-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:26:37 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re:New Choirs/Bands >> Come to think of it, say that >> after you've read what other people have come up >> with and have to think of something that hasn't been >> done already. On the subject of 'done already', are there any other orders mentioned in the 'real world' stuff? I know In uses everything in the common angelographies, but is there anything rarer floating around? James. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:46:49 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re: Athena does Buffy. >The PCs will almost > certainly be quite nervous as they reach Olympus... > > ... and find it deserted, and already starting to fade > away. [snip] > If you simply must have a Scooby-Doo version, however, > then the Greek gods aren't actually dead, just > relocated. Back to Earth? With this power level, they might decide to make a come-back... > I still think that Elder Gods would be cooler, though. Mental image of devout angel, saying:'Our Elder God can beat up your Elder God". James. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:53:35 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re: Attunements from the other side > Servitor Attunements are dependent on the Word, if I recall correctly, and > I *think* it's canon that an angel/demon may recieve a Servitor Attunement > from the 'other side'. ! News to me! When (if ever) did this happen? James. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 21:48:16 -0400 From: "S.D." Subject: Re: IN> Re: Attunements from the other side >> Servitor Attunements are dependent on the Word, if I recall correctly, and >> I *think* it's canon that an angel/demon may recieve a Servitor Attunement >> from the 'other side'. >! >News to me! When (if ever) did this happen? I just have vague memories of stuff on the INC (or maybe this ML...) involving angels getting diabolical Attunements (something with Asmodeus' Humanity Attunement) and vice-versa (Novalis, here, IIRC...) I'm not sure. And since it's not in a book, I can't tell if it's based on canon or not. [shrugs] ~S.D. Ryukage http://fly.to/sd_nexus ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "I made such a great impression on you, you don't even remember my name." B-Ko Daitokuji, 'Project A-Ko' ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:40:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> MarcFest: A Saint that he wouldn't like too much Now, some might argue that Heaven would _never_ let this fellow actually go back down to Earth and do what he does. To that I say, 'Bah'. The allure of the ethical thief isn't _all_ Valefor's doing. :) Moe Bill Saint of the Wind Corporeal Forces: 2 Strength: 3 Agility: 5 Ethereal Forces: 2 Intelligence: 4 Precision: 4 Celestial Forces: 3 Will: 6 Perception: 6 Vessel: middle-aged man/2, Charisma +1 Skills: Chemistry/2, Climbing/1, Computer Operation/1, Electronics/2, Emote/3, Fast-Talk/4, Fighting/1, Knowledge/3 (research), Lockpicking/6 (mastery), Lying/6 (mastery), Ranged Weapon (pistol/1), Savoir-Faire/1 Songs: Charm (Ethereal/3), Entropy (Corporeal/2), Form (Celestial/3), Light (Ethereal/1), Motion (Ethereal/4, Celestial/3), Shields (Corporeal/2), Tongues (Ethereal/2) Attunements: Blessed, Passage Meet Bill. He robs banks for the Lord. Now, there are those that would argue that the Lord doesn't need ready cash quite that badly, and they'd be right. However, the money isn't really the issue, here. Marc and/or Dominic may spit at the idea, but there are banks that need robbing (admittedly, most have their head offices in Hell anyway). Anyway, mere money has never been the main attraction to Bill, even when he was alive. He simply found it fun to assess a bank's routine (sometimes for years) until he found its one weakness, then go put on a disguise and exploit it. The money was at times just a way to keep score. Maybe that attitude was what kept Bill out of Hell - or maybe it was because he never actually hurt anybody while indulging in his chosen art (and, with Bill, it was an art). He was even very polite about it, which probably won him points. Or maybe he was just very sorry about the whole thing, towards the end. At any rate, when he found himself being let through the Pearly Gates, Bill decided not to argue about his apparent narrow escape. The blessed soul wasn't sure what he was going to do with eternity, but he was pretty sure that something would come up. Then he ran into Janus. The Archangel of the Wind was more than happy to explain the minor flaw in Bill's earthly philosophy: it wasn't the fact that he robbed banks that was bad, it was that he was robbing the wrong banks. If Bill had fallen in with the right crowd, he could have been pointed to places where the expression of his art would have actually benefited humanity. Of course, Janus was apologetic about how remiss his Servitors had been about this (these things unfortunately happen in Wartime, but that's no real excuse): still, better late than never, huh? Well, now Bill's back, and robbing the right banks this time. Banks that connive at laundering drug money. Banks that deliberately and immorally foreclose on small businessmen and farms. Banks that are wholly owned and operated by Mammon's (or some other Prince's) organization. Banks, in short, that have incurred the wrath of Heaven in general and Janus in particular: Bill gets his assignment, cases the joint, then goes to work. The keynote to Bill's operation is meticulous planning: the Saint is willing to spend as long as it takes to know, down in his bones, the layout and routine of a place. When he was alive, Bill was an early user of what a later generation would call 'social engineering': he specialized in getting in by showing people what they expected to see. He sees no reason why he should change tactics now (for one thing, it's a blessed sight safer for any innocent bystanders): after all, he can change his face and fingerprints at will now. On those occasions where a good gift of gab won't be enough, Janus has thoughtfully provided the Saint with access to all sorts of specialists: nice kids, even if they can't stick around for long. Bill's a charismatic sort of fellow: even Servitors of Trade (who can be universally counted on to look upon his work with grave reservations) have to admit that he's personally charming. Good dresser, too. He actually wouldn't mind too much working for Trade - from Bill's point of view, he's fighting those who would make a mockery of the Word - but that isn't too likely. Janus did offer to do a couple of joint missions, but Marc's only response was horrified laughter. This disappoints the Saint, but what can you do? Unlike his living days, Bill _never_ goes in for armed robbery anymore (even then, he was usually quietly terrified that he'd actually have to fire a gun someday). Nighttime robberies are much more fun, anyway - not as much fun as making sure that the ensuing police investigation and/or financial audit reveals details that crooked bank officials would rather not have revealed, but then, what is? The Saint is starting to think that these computers have real possibilities, too: he's starting to take a few lessons along those lines. He's unlikely to ever end up exclusively concentrating on cracking electronic accounts, though: he's a bit old-fashioned, and honestly prefers to crack actual safes. After all, that's where the money is. ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 06/05/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. http://buzz.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 06:32:00 From: "Michael Cleveland" Subject: IN> Somebody had to go and talk about dinosaurs... (Unpronouncable) 'Outcast' (Former Elohite)Malakite of Animals Corporeal Forces - 6 (Strength 12, Agility 12) Ethereal Forces - 2 (Intelligence 2, Precision 6_ Celestial Forces - 4 (Perception 6, Will 10) Skills - Dodge 3, Fighting 5, Move Silently 5, Running 4, Survival 4, Tracking 4 Songs - Healing (Corporeal -3), Numinous Corpus (Fangs 6, Claws 6) Vessel - Velociraptor/6 Charisma +2 Body Hits - 144 Mind Hits - 4 Soul Hits - 40 - ------------- Out of Dark. Good. Wait long time. Have body back now. Strange. Where is grass? Where are trees? Ground is stone. Not stone. Has lines. Wrong color. Odd. What is noise? Chimpanzees. With no hair. Wait. Hair on skull. Chimpanzees making noise. Pointing. Eyes are wide. Not moving. Chimpanzees are not in trees. Chimpanzees are forgetting natural order of things. Chimpanzees are weak. Velociraptor is strong. Weak are eaten by strong. Correct error of closest hairless chimpanzee. Other chimpanzees running and chittering. Can not tell if chimps are sufficiently afraid. Eat. Walking. Many cliffs. Very sheer. Very tall. Valleys in between. More stone. Odd. Wrong. See 4 chimpanzees wearing the same shell. Chimpanzees do not have shells. Even if chimpanzees did have shells, only one chimpanzee could use at at the same time. Illogical. Assume Biological error. Remove error for sake of genetic purity. Shell broke instantly upon impact. Proof of flaws. More chimpanzees. Most run in acceptance of natural order. Still no grass. Saw trees. Small. Surrounded by stone. More monkeys sleeping in narrow valley. Eat. Scream out challenge - no answer. Where is pack? Confused. More hairless monkeys. More cliffs. Pain. Rocks hitting hide. No rocks. Quiet thunder noises. Coming from monkeys. More pain. Monkeys are not supposed to use Songs of Thunder. Violates natural order. Remove violations of natural order. Scream challenge again. Where are Velociraptors? Getting dark. More of same. Found small patches of grass and trees. Monkeys everywhere. More monkeys using Song of Thunder. More pain. Removed monkeys. Still have not seen Velociraptors. Have not seen any dinosaurs. Nothing but monkeys. Saw wolf - wolf was walking next to a monkey. Killed wolf. Killed monkey. Where has order gone to? Confused. Will go to Heaven and ask Jordi what is wrong. Strange. Can not go to Heaven. Odd. Disturbing. Walk to pool of water to get drink. Still in Celestial Form - look strange. Look like Mercurian with black wings. Confused. Have figured out what to do - will call Jordi. Start to scream challenges to sky. Stop. More monkeys in shells. Light coming from sticks in hands. Is there no sense of order? Reform vessel. Other Velociraptors not around to enforce order. Jordi will be angry if natural laws are not enforced. Will contact after monkeys are taught. Vessel reformed next to monkey. Monkey is standing still and chittering. Think to self about finding more Velociraptors to cull herds before too long. Too many monkeys. Must fix. Eat. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 06:24:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Re:New Choirs/Bands - --- james walker wrote: > On the subject of 'done already', are there any other > orders mentioned in > the 'real world' stuff? I know In uses everything in the > common > angelographies, but is there anything rarer floating > around? Davidson's Dictionary of Angels is invaluable here. That's where I got the names for all but one of the minor Choirs and Bands that I did. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 The Aztecs had chocolate and human sacrifice. That's got to balance out on the karmic scale. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. http://buzz.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 06:27:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Somebody had to go and talk about dinosaurs... - --- Michael Cleveland wrote: > (Unpronouncable) > 'Outcast' (Former Elohite)Malakite of Animals > Vessel - Velociraptor/6 Charisma +2 _+_2? Admittedly, *we* may think that he's the cutest little thing, but everybody else... :) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 06/05/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. http://buzz.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 06:28:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> MarcFest: A Saint that he wouldn't like too much - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > Bill > Saint of the Wind > > Meet Bill. He robs banks for the Lord. I like this guy a lot. Consider him stolen. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 The Aztecs had chocolate and human sacrifice. That's got to balance out on the karmic scale. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. http://buzz.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 06:30:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Somebody had to go and talk about dinosaurs... - --- Michael Cleveland wrote: > (Unpronouncable) > 'Outcast' (Former Elohite)Malakite of Animals [shudder] ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 The Aztecs had chocolate and human sacrifice. That's got to balance out on the karmic scale. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. http://buzz.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:34:05 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Somebody had to go and talk about dinosaurs... Um. Cute, but wolves, monkeys, and chimpanzees are all as futuristic as humans and dogs to someone who regards velociraptors as biological state-of-the-art. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:36:32 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Somebody had to go and talk about dinosaurs... Maurice Lane wrote: > > Vessel - Velociraptor/6 Charisma +2 > > _+_2? Admittedly, *we* may think that he's the cutest > little thing, but everybody else... I think, in this case, the +2 should be interpreted as "impressive" or "scary" rather than "appealing." Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:44:56 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: IN> Iron Rev: Round Two From: "Prodigal" > If nobody objects, I'll volunteer for the next round, and post the > ingredients list about 10pm tonight. OK, I'll take the total silence that greeted my offer to post as assent. Here goes: The three ingredients are as follows: Computers Conspiracy Footwear Submissions are due by Tuesday, June 19th, and I will be posting them for review and voting on Wednesday, June 20th, through Tuesday, June 26th, with winners to be announced on Thursday, June 28th. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:59:24 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Re:New Choirs/Bands james walker wrote: > On the subject of 'done already', are there any other orders > mentioned in the 'real world' stuff? I know In uses everything > in the common angelographies, but is there anything rarer > floating around? A previous post mentioned Davidson's Dictionary of Angels. Shortly after I got my copy, I made the following notes on "non-standard" choirs during a period of too much free time. (For those nervous about copyright, please note that tese ARE just my NOTES on entries in the dictionary, not quotes from it.) By "non-standard choirs" I mean any not in the angelology of Pseudo-Dionyius, the most widely received angelology of Christendom. He had nine choirs: seraphim, cherubim, thrones dominations, virtues, powers principalities, archangels, angels I have not included classes of spirits from polytheistic religions, or names which are simple alternate translations of the names of the "standard" choirs. However, I have included (alleged) alternate names of standard choirs, when those names apparently have different meanings. The tidle, "~", means "equivalent to." _____________ abalim / arelim / arellim / erelim : "valiant ones," mentioned in 3 Enoch, ~ thrones, see Isaiah 33:7 abdals : "substitutes," 70 righteous spirits known only to God, who sustain the world. Cf. the lamed wufniks acclamations, apparitions, & voices : the three main divisions of the hierarchy according to Robert Fludd aeons : us. gnostic emanations of God aishim / ishim / ischim : "flames" anakim : "giants," syn. or sub. of nephilim animastic / animated / issim : "nobles, lords, princes" anunna : terrestrial spirits, Chaldean archons : us. world-ruling gnostic demons, often planetary in character ardors : a Miltonic choir authorities : ~ virtues or powers, or similar to them chalkydri : 12-winged, rumorerd serpentine chariots of God : ~ thrones, ophanim chieftains : ~ principalities chiva : ~ hayyoth, cherubim [living thing, same as hayya] cosmagogi : "universe guides," three in number, Chaldean decani : a band of 36 demons of disease degalim : one of the Song-Uttering Choirs deputies : a Talmudic order according to M. De. Voltaire elders : from Revelation electors : 7 planetary spirits elim : mentioned in 3 Enoch empires : ~virtues entities : a choir "sheathed in gold lame'" -- how stylish! ephemerae : angels that last only one day ethnarchs : ~ principalities exousia : ~ powers/virtues favashi : Zoroastrian guardian angel, rather like Egyptian ka's. flames : a Talmudic order according to M. De. Voltaire forces : governors of earthly affairs, according to John of Damascus; pos. ~ power or virtues galgallim : "spheres," ~ seraphim gedudim : one of the Song-Uttering Choirs gibborim : syn. or sub. of nephilim gonfalons : a Miltonic choir (maybe; the word just means a flag hung from a crosspiece) governments : ~ principalities? grigori : "watchers," fallen ones being the fathers of the nephilim guards : ~ cherubim hafaza : a set of four protecting and recording angels; Moslem hajoth hakados : a choir of angels; "hajoth" ~ "hayyoth"? hashmallim : also "hamshalim," ~ hayyoth, cherubim [from moshelim, dominions] heavenly academy : a group of angels that judges humans, cabbalistic hebdomad : ~ archons, gnostic hayyoth : (sing. hayya) ~ cherubim; the "Zohar" says there are 36 of them [living thing] hechaloth : the seven female emanations of God; cf. serphiroth; cabbalistic [halls] hypezokos : "flowers of fire," Chaldean innocents : 10th choir in a system of 12 intelligences : us. 10 in number, us. astronomical; neo-Platonic irin : wakefuls "irin & qassadin" = "watchers & holy ones" irin & qaddisin : two pairs of twin angels, each equal to the rest of the heavenly host ishim / ischim : see aishim kadishim / qadishim / qaddisin : "holy ones," see irin & qaddisin lords : ~ dominations, virtues, principalities maadim : two angels that stand near the moon and keep the world warm; apocryphal [the appointed] majesties : ~ thrones? malakim : "kings," ~ virtues maskim : a band of seven major demons, Sumerian [ensnarers] mastinim : accusers, us. on behalf of mortal plaintiffs melki : Mandean angels memunim : "appointed ones," sing. memuneh, a dream-dispensing angel, "defenders in Heaven of their earthy charges," one of the "Song-Uttering Choirs" merkaboth : a set of seven major angels mesharethim : one of the Song-Uttering Choirs middoth : ~ sephiroth, seven personifications of divine virtues oirin : ~ principalities; Chaldean [var. of irin?] Olympian spirits : seven planetary spirits ophanim : ~ thrones, cherubim parasim : celestial horsemen, one of the "Song-Uttering Choirs" patriarchs : Biblical patriarchs dubiously rumored to have become angels phoenixes : an order of solar angels; purple; said to be 12-winged like chalkydri; mentioned in Enoch qlippoth : "husks," the infernal counterparts of the sephiroth rectores mundorum : divine regents over the mortal world; Chaldean regents : a Miltonic order ribbotaim : ~ cherubim, used as chariots of God so ~ ophanim? rulers : ~ dominations or perhaps principalities saints : a Talmudic order according to M. De. Voltaire sallisim : one of the "Song-Uttering Choirs" sanctities : a Miltonic order sarim : "princes," ~ principalities satrapies : a Miltonic order scourging angels : Heb. "malache habbala" scribes : a choir of recording angels in 3 Enoch seats : ~ thrones; mentioned by Augustine sebalim : one of the "Song-Uttering Choirs" sedim : sing. sedu, ~ cherubim, cf. "shedu/shedim" sephiroth : sing. sephira, either "spheres" or "books" or "vessels," a set of 10 divine qualities, forming the Cabalisitc Tree of Life, sometimes personified as angelic emanations senegorin : "advocates," a choir of 1800 shahakim : a choir [clouds] shaitans : equated with shedim, mazikeen/mazzikim, and given as the masc. of lilin shinanim : a choir associated with the revealing of the Law, with fire, and with the sephira Tiphereth (beauty) [the repeaters] Song-Uttering Choirs : a set of choirs that, in 3 Enoch, are reported as having been consumed by fire for being late in singing the Trisagion (!) They are (or were): degalim [flags, ensigns, banners] gedudim [hosts] mesharethim [ministering ones] sallisim sebalim [bearers (of burdens)] sons of princes : a Talmudic order according to M. De. Voltaire sovereignties : a choir, according to one interpretation of 1 Corinthians 15:24 sparks : a Talmudic order according to M. De. Voltaire spheres : ~ galgallim, seraphim splendors : ~virtues stalwarts : a choir standards : a Miltonic order (maybe, or maybe just flags of the heavenly host; see gonfallons) the strong : a Talmudic order according to M. De. Voltaire tacouin : "beautiful, winged, minor angels" tafsarim : a high choir, associated with the elim and the erelim [children of the sarim, i.e. children of the princes] tarshishim : "brilliant ones," ~ virtues, see Daniel 16:6, associated with the sephira Foundation tartaruchi : the angels of Tartarus teletarchae : celestial intelligences or luminaries, Chaldean throne-bearers : a set of four angels; ~ hayyoth?; Moslem; four more will be added on the day of resurrection uthri : sing. uthra, a shoir of ten Mandean solar angels virgins : ~ virtues; Coptic voices : a choir of seven, in one form of gnosticism; one of the three main divisions of the hierarchy according to Fludd warriors : a Miltonic order, also used elsewhere Zoroastrian choirs: amensha spentas (the seven high emanations or archangels) izeds / izads / yazatas / yezids (the next tier down, genii of the elements, led by Mithras, numbering 27 0r 28) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:00:30 -0400 From: "Jason F. McBrayer" Subject: Re: IN> MarcFest: A Saint that he wouldn't like too much On Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 10:40:13PM -0700, Maurice Lane wrote: > Bill [1] > Saint of the Wind Nice. Until I saw the last line, I was thinking that this slippery character probably should have been called Jim [2]. Annotations below. [1] Bill == Willie Sutton (1901 - 1980), a bank robber famous for answering the question "why do you rob banks" with "Because that's where the money is." Noted for his politeness and use of disguises in robberies, he was nicknamed "The Actor" or "Slick Willie." (In his autobiography, Sutton admits that The Quote was actually made up by a reporter.) Plenty of biographical information is at http://www.fbi.gov/fbinbrief/historic/famcases/sutton/sutton.htm. [2] diGriz. If you don't get this, you've missed a very funny series of books (but stay away from the later ones). - -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Jason F. McBrayer jmcbray@carcosa.net | | The scalloped tatters of the King in Yellow must hide Yhtill | | forever. R.W. Chambers _The King in Yellow_ | ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:04:43 +0100 From: Jason Schneiderman Subject: IN> It's Gaiman, it's Celestial, but it ain't Good Omens... >Neil Gaiman's >Murder Mysteries >Neil Gaiman > >In this mystery noir set in heaven's City of Angels before the fall, the >first crime has been committed. It is an awful one. While the angelic >hosts labor to create the world and its workings, one of their number is >mysteriously slain by one of their own. Raguel, Angel of Vengeance, is >mandated by Lucifer to discover both motive and murderer in this holy >dominion that had so recently known no sin. > >http://www.scifi.com/set/playhouse/murder/ * * * * * Jason Schneiderman, Editor, EDITORIAL HUMOR. E-mail: edhumor@tiac.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:44:08 -0400 From: "Matthew B. Gerber" Subject: IN> Minor Choir: The Translators You know, ideas come from the strangest places. Random syllables people use to express being groggy really shouldn't lead to things like this. They really shouldn't. Thanks to Mason Kramer for being a sounding board, and thanks (and apologies) to Amy Borden for the original inspiration. .......... Mrflglim: The Translators Sometimes, the rest of Heaven really wonders about Yves. The Archangel of Destiny came up with this minor Choir relatively recently, and has been more than pleased with the results. You wouldn't know it by looking at them--in Celestial form, Mrflglim are short, wizened figures with huge ears and stubby, almost comical wings. Their Vessels are almost invariably vital elderly men and women, and they're always good--very, *very* good--at listening. .......... The Resonance of a Mrflglite is for language. On a successful Resonance roll, the Angel can understand *anything* he or she hears or reads that is in a coherent human language. Anything. To be more precise about it: On a check digit of 1, the Mrflglite understands, at worst, the rough gist of what the person originating the communication was trying to get across. (The Angel might get more information than this just from being observant, if they happen to know the language.) On a check digit of 2, the Mrflglite understands both the gist and nuances of what the person meant to say. On a check digit of 3, the Mrflglite understands *everything* the originator intended to say. Meaning, double-meanings, puns, poetry, and all other linguistic constructs will be clear. On a check digit of 4, the Mrflglite understands all of the above, plus some things the originator perhaps *didn't* intend to say: they will pick up unconscious cues of sarcasm and bitterness, for example. On a check digit of 5, the Mrflglite understands everything the originator both did and didn't intend to say; meanings inadvertantly included in the message will be clear to the Angel, as well as whether the communicator believed them or not (whether or not he or she intended to say it). On a check digit of 6, the Mrflglite gets all this plus a total linguistic breakdown of the communication from the Symphony, including a word-by-word translation and analysis of the linguistic constructs and roots of everything said. A Mrflglite doesn't need many of these to start translating a language in earnest. A successful Resonance lasts either for the check digit in hours or for as long as a Mrflglite continues to listen to or study the same person/people, conversation, or text--whichever is shorter. After a failed Resonance, a Mrflglite must wait the check digit in hours to try again. If a Mrflglite succeeds but wants to try for greater clarity in a Resonance (i.e., a higher check digit), they may voluntarily end the Resonance and try again immediately. .......... Mrflglim become Dissnonant if they muddle their own speech. When they speak, the intended listeners *must* understand what they say: it's fine for it to not come across immediately, but if a person for whom the communication was meant leaves without getting the point, the Mrflglite takes Dissonance. It is *very, very dangerous* for Mrflglim to engage in public speaking! The same problem doesn't happen with written documents--the Mrflglite Dissonance condition doesn't apply for documents except to the extent that a document was written for *one* specific recipient (i.e., a letter, an E-mail or a report). Fallen Mrflglim become Mrglflim, a minor Band with a Resonance for obfuscating communications; Kronos and Alaemon tend to fight over who gets them. .......... *All* Mrflglite Choir Attunements are restricted. Mrflglite of Dreams: Blandine's Translators can interpret the subconscious meanings inherent in the dreams of humans. When observing someone's dream, they may treat the dream itself as a communication for the purposes of their Resonance. When *inside* that person's dreamscape, they add their Ethereal Forces to their Resonance roll for this purpose. Mrflglite of Children: Christopher's Translators can, with their successful resonance, understand the meaning of a child's cry--from where it hurts, to how petty the child is being about getting his or her way, to who the bad man is that the Malakim need to be pointed in the general direction of. Mrflglite of Stone: David has a surprising amount of affinity for this Choir. His Translators add their Celestial Forces to any Resonance roll that involves one group communicating with another. Mrflglite of Judgement: Dominic's Translators are the most skilled interpreters of law and laws to exist. They add their Celestial Forces to the check digit of any Resonance that concerns a legal matter. Mrflglite of Creation: Eli's Translators can use a successful Resonance on a work of art, to see the message, if any, that the artist was trying to convey. Mrflglite of Fire: Gabriel's Translators can Resonate to determine the meaning of a prophecy, at a penalty commensurate with its import. The penalty, sadly, has meant that none of the *really* important prophecies have gotten cracked. It's rumored that there are about ten Wordbound Mrflglim of Fire constantly pounding on the prophecies of Armageddon; if it's true, either they haven't gotten anywhere or the results have been *spectacularly* well-bottled.... Mrflglite of Faith: Khalid's beloved Translators can add their Celestial Forces to the check digit of any Resonance on a religious text. This does *not* tell them whether the text was actually Divinely (or, for that matter, Infernally) inspired, but it does allow them to see more clearly the intent of the human author. Mrflglite of The Wind: Janus has very few Translators--the quiet, long-term study they prefer clashes rather seriously with Wind's usual modus operandi. The few that he has can use their Resonance to see what someone intends to say *as soon as the conversation starts* rather than waiting for them to say it, letting them discern the point quickly. Mrflglite of Lightning: Jean's Translators may use their Resonance on computer-readable languages, including not only programming languages but machine object code. Mrflglite of Animals: Jordi's Translators may use their Resonance on animal languages--right on down to bird calls. Heaven's linguistics journals have been getting significantly more interesting, recently... Mrflglite of The Sword: Laurence's Translators add their Celestial Forces to the check digit when Resonating a communication going either up or down a hierarchy. Laurence uses them to ferret out, and find the sources of, hidden disrespect in reports from subordinates to superiors--*or* responses from superiors to subordinates. Mrflglite of Revelation: Litheroy's Translators may use their Resonance, as normal, to decipher encrypted or otherwise intentionally obfuscated communications! Mrflglite of Trade: Marc dearly, dearly *loves* Translators. His have the ability to add their *total* Forces to any Resonance roll that involves reading or interpreting a contract or business agreement of any kind. (Yes, this essentially means automatic success.) Mrflglite of War: Michael's rare and deeply coveted Translators cut through the fog of war. On a successful Resonance roll, they have the ability to understand any order or other military communication from any fragment of it that is received--*any* fragment, period. Even if only a tenth of the text has survived, a Mrflglite of War will receive the meaning of the entire message from the Symphony! Mrflglite of Flowers: Novalis' Translators add their Celestial Forces to any Resonance roll when attempting to understand information necessary to end a violent situation. Mrflglite of Destiny: Yves' Translators simply add half their Celestial Forces (rounded up) to any Resonance roll. Mrflglite of Protection: Zadkiel's Translators often protect information from being lost forever. Whenever they successfully Resonate on a communication whose medium is damaged or in danger, they will remember the text of the communication *verbatim*, after the Resonance ends, for a number of hours equivalent to the check digit. .......... The role of Mrflglim in the War is fairly obvious: help the good guys understand everything, especially what the bad guys don't want them to. They are essentially *never* combat monsters--it's not that they think any less of combatants, it's just not something they do. The typical Mrflglite is patient if condescending, speaking carefully and clearly, often absently reading over something while you talk. They tend to take Roles as reclusive researchers, especially linguists or archaeologists. More daring ones will take Roles as college professors, but always teaching small classes. Somewhat atypical ones (particularly Mrflglim of Flowers) will take Roles as psychologists or counselors--their Resonance can be nearly as useful as the Elohite Resonance for figuring out what makes people tick. A final note: Rare and valuable, Mrflglim are often backed up by Malakim nearby. What? You thought *Nybbas* came up with the stereotype of the reclusive researcher with the hulking bodyguard? For shame, for *shame*.... Matt ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2263 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.