From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat Jun 23 18:25:08 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10077 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2001 18:25:08 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id SAA06438 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 23 Jun 2001 18:23:54 -0500 Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 18:23:54 -0500 Message-Id: <200106232323.SAA06438@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2274 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, June 23 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2274 In this digest: Re: IN> Two oppositional attunements IN> IN: six degrees. IN> Discussion or Edicts? Re: IN> Re: Poetry duels Re: IN> Discussion or Edicts? Re: IN> Discussion or Edicts? Re: IN> Discussion or Edicts? IN> Paradox, Angel of the Impossible Re: IN> Discussion or Edicts? IN> RE: IN > Wondering about celestial languages Re: IN> hobbies, was Re: Poetry duels RE: IN> Two oppositional attunements IN> Request from a game log junky IN> Re: Novalis Servitor Attunement IN> Angels speaking demonic. Re: IN> Request from a game log junky Re: IN> Discussion or Edicts? Re: IN> IN > Wondering about celestial languages IN> When will SJGames declare IN officially dead? Or will it? Re: IN> When will SJGames declare IN officially dead? Or will it? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 15:59:29 -0700 From: Daiv Subject: Re: IN> Two oppositional attunements Phillip Des Jardins wrote: > > Daiv and I were out driving yesterday when we thought about these. You > can blame him for the first, but I claim full responsability for the second. > > Tech Support (Jean) > > This attunement, recently developed as a way to help humans figure it > out for themselves, costs 1 essense to use, and requires a successful > Intelligence roll on the part of the Angel. Note, for the record: I think this should be Perception based. My own experience with Tech Support (that is, being tech support for three years (GOd save me from a relapse)) I find that actually Listening to the complaint is far more important that knowing everything there is to know about the system. All too often, Tech support follows rigidly defined rules of how to solve X, without realizing that the problem is actually Y. It is all Jean, though. By virtue of that selfsame experience, I had occasions where i suddenly Understood in a flash of insight. Or, in IN terms, a flash of divine inspiration. So, if I am going to get credit (and blame) for this one, I might as well get it for what i have actually done. -Daiv, Tech Writer in service to Coffee, in search of a superior. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 16:02:34 -0700 From: Daiv Subject: IN> IN: six degrees. In that selfsame roadtrip to Nowhere that Phillip mentioned, a question came to me. What happened to the Mecurian who Resonated on Kevin Bacon? -Daiv, Tech Writer in service to Coffee, in search of a superior. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 19:10:00 -0400 From: "Michael J. Person" Subject: IN> Discussion or Edicts? Interesting. In response to what was turning out to be a rather stimulating discussion on the nature of Words and their extent, (as specifically related to Lawrence), one of the parties drops in with this sort of sarcastic response: - ------ David Edelstein wrote: >Yeah, I'm sure I've never thought in depth about what Laurence's Word >represents, since I only wrote his expanded writeup in Superiors 1. >Yeah, I'm sure I've never thought in depth about how Words work, since I >only wrote the Game Master's Guide. - ------- No other comments in the post. No rebuttal to the opinions expressed. I understand that to some extent, by definition, what is written in the published books is as close as any of us can get to "actual answers" out of a realm of fiction, but is it really the case that David and the other authors of said books believe their opinions in these discussions are so paramount that they don't even merit examination? As far as I could tell, the discussion preceding these comments was progressing as a good discussion should, with the exchange of conflicting ideas and opinions in a polite and well-reasoned manner that many of the rest of us found thought provoking from both sides. Following up with the insulting sarcasm above does nothing but undermine the very opinions that one side of the argument was, until that point, fairly successfully defending. - -MJ Person mjperson@mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 19:37:07 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: Poetry duels At 4:17 PM -0500 6/22/01, David Edelstein wrote: >Malachai Davidson wrote: [snip] Do let's not get into a Whose Canon Can Beat Up Whose Canon... If I _had_ to give a canon answer regarding Laurence and Flower Arranging (probably an Artistry skill), I suspect that, at this moment, it would be along the lines of: His Word doesn't give him either a bonus or an innate knowledge of Flower Arranging. His attraction to honorable sword-weilders and their codes of honor would probably lead him to study the skill himself, personally, and he might be surprisingly good at it. (Not to mention hedge-clipping-into- shapes, especially in a more humourous campaign.) I.e., his Word wouldn't _give_ him the skill, but it and his Malakite opinions about honor would be likely to incline him to _learn_ it, because of its indirect connection. (Or else, in a more humourous campaign, the fact that some of his Mercurians bullied him into it (indirectly) so that he'd have something to do after All Evil Had Been Slain.) Michael's Word, on the other hand, would not even indirectly incline him to go learn something so useless. He'd pick up a smattering of such a skill only as it pertained to war and diplomacy, and probably have to drop a bomb of Essence on it to get anywhere with it. (Unless it were a contest of the sort that the GM decreed _would_ fall under his Word, in which case the GM can have fun, and with my blessings.) And , on the _other_ hand, if you're dropping Laurence into GURPS Yrth, he undoubtedly has cooking skill. But you'd have to read GURPS Fantasy Adventures to understand why. (It's a mild spoiler for one of the adventures.) Now, while that's what I'd rule if I had to rule canon (meaning that I am not so doing at this moment, because I don't want to have to remember it and I don't think it needs to be errata'ed), this hardly prevents people from running their games to suit themselves in this matter, or even from writing fanfic that portrays a Laurence-Novalis scandal, rocking the Seraphim Council and provoking the explanation that "they're only _politically_ opposed." Just so long as it's good fanfic, and gets the plurals right. And remembers Rule One. (Yes, I read Prachett's _Thief of Time_ recently. And Bonsai Mountains _would_ fall under David's Word.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 23:25:37 -0000 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> Discussion or Edicts? I wondered if I was the only one who thought, reading the "replies" in question, "If you feel that way, why do you bother reading these lists at all?" Janet Anderson _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 18:32:36 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Discussion or Edicts? "Michael J. Person" wrote: > I understand that to some extent, by definition, what is written > in the published books is as close as any of us can get to > "actual answers" out of a realm of fiction, but is it really > the case that David and the other authors of said books > believe their opinions in these discussions are so paramount > that they don't even merit examination? No. It's the case that I found it annoying to be lectured about what Laurence's Word means by someone who seems convinced that I can't possibly know what I'm talking about. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 16:44:19 -0700 From: Sean McCarthy Subject: Re: IN> Discussion or Edicts? Our spies report that at 11:25 PM 6/22/2001 +0000, Janet Anderson wrote: >I wondered if I was the only one who thought, reading the "replies" in >question, "If you feel that way, why do you bother reading these lists at all?" Sometimes I want to throttle people here. In this case, however, it struck me that the initial mail had poor phrasing: "Which isn't how it gets to be part of the Word, David, at least as I understand In Nomine" is sort of IMHO, yet doesn't hold back on saying the other person is wrong, canonically speaking (if you say 'in In Nomine' without qualifiers, default assumption by readers will be you are stating how the official rules work.) So while Mez. Edelstein was his usual sunny self in reponse, I don't think taking a little umbrage at the statement that you have the rules wrong is completely out of line. Sean ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 19:58:14 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Paradox, Angel of the Impossible Paradox Cherub of Destiny Master of Divine Knowledge Angel of Paradox Cor-3 Str-6 Agi-6 Int-1 Int-2 Pre-2 Cel-6 Will-12 Per-12 Vessel: Parrot 2/, Ox 3/ Skills: Artistry (Puns) 6/, Savoir Faire 3/, Temporal Mechanics 6/ Songs: Song of Form (Ethereal 6/), Song of Motion (Cor 3/, Cel 3/), Song of Time 6/ Attunements: Master of Divine Knowledge, Sychronity, Divine Destiny, Divine Logic, Whatever he needs Word Forces: 1-100!!! Special Attunement: Whatever-he-needs: This strange attunement manifests paradoxially as whatever Paradox DOESN'T need at the moment but inevitably does need later on after which it immediately dissapears whether this is a rite, artifact, or series of incredibly powerful attunements that allow him to affect the universe as we know it. "Paradox is the most powerful Angel in existence...NO WAIT...sorry now he's the weakest....HOLD ON...now he's both...BAH!"-Seraph reading the chronicles of Paradox's exploits aloud in the library. Paradox is a rather peculiar looking Cherub (half Parrot/Half Ox) who has one of the most bizzare missions for Yves currently abounding in that he is to safegaurd the Impossible and make sure that it doesn't spill over into the probable. To this end he has been taught the secret songs of time that allow him to jump forward, backward, look through, and stop time at his leisure. Paradox however is not well known as a servitor of Yves because if he's doing his job right then he's never actually done anything whatsoever. Sounds impossible doesn't it? Thankfully that is his specialty. To help understand exactly what sort of job Paradox does, one simply has to look at the destiny of a man who is supposed to invent the cure for the Black Death. Well unfortunately he didn't which basically means quite a few people died, Paradox hasn't quite gotten around to that particular case but he will eventually. Second chances are impossible in Hell? Paradox is to find out why and make sure that they are. Paradox in effect is there to rewrite history for the better and intends to keep doing so until he gets it right. That Yves would support such an insane plan with such chaos? Impossible you say! Well duh. Still when the Nazi's developed the atomic bomb and Hitler nuked the entirety of the planet, one should be grateful about that not happening due to Paradox....actually he's not sure if he actually caused it in the first place but it didn't happen here...yet right? Things would be relatively simple if not for the fact Paradox has to put up with Kronos's interference with his mission, unbeknowst to most of Heaven the Prince of Fate has a very vested interest in seeing History rewritten for the Worst and long ago found the Secret of the Songs of Time which have allowed him to muck with history just as much as Paradox. Paradox is frankly on the verge of a nerveous breakdown with the intimate chains and threads of time that keep running through him and he's slowly starting to believe that EVERY possibility is simultaneously happening and occuring and real. Shoedigger's dead and alive cat theory isn't really that frightening for most people but think about when you have an angelic mindset and your told no matter what you do you are just one particular reality where infinite possibilty gaurentees even if you fail some of you suceeded and even if you fail completely, utterly, and magnificently there is an equal number of infinite realities where you suceeded. Also Paradox has increasingly discovered much of his work has required outside perspectives who occasionally reacted very badly to situations.... Kronos is already licking his lips. "Just what if the Metatron actually WAS the pillar of Fire at the Hebrews then thanks to our little talk with Lucifer trying to keep him from rebelling actually led to him killing the Metatron and thus causing a paradox....and Uzziel, what about him? How the heck did all these Hebrews find out about him unless he wasn't killed in the Fall but was killed later on and some dream memory of time altered carried over? Have you ever also wondered whether I fixed the fact the Garden of Eden didn't occur, thus creating the Creationalist vs. Evolutionist debate and why Lilith only suddenly appears in Hebrew Lore until much later as a superstition? I'm telling you when you have my job, losing ethereal forces is a witch!" - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 21:29:27 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Discussion or Edicts? Janet Anderson wrote: >I wondered if I was the only one who thought, reading the "replies" in >question, "If you feel that way, why do you bother reading these lists at all?" Possibly not, and because I want to, respectively. Sean McCarthy wrote: > I> don't think taking a little umbrage at the statement that you have the> rules wrong is completely out of line. Bingo. I have never, ever, ever told anyone how they should run their campaign or how they should interpret canon for their own games. However, when someone becomes patronizing when "explaining" to me how a chunk of the rules that _I wrote_ works, yes, I tend to respond with some degree of sarcasm. - -David, bringing you your daily dose of sunshine ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 19:49:13 -0700 From: Vaughn Romero Subject: IN> RE: IN > Wondering about celestial languages [Note: I, um, removed the spurious "IN" from the subject line. Sorry about that.] On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 ranma wrote: >Who says Lucifer LIED to anyone? The key thing is that Angelic doesn't ensure >you speak 'the TRUTH', it ensures you can't say something that you yourself, >think is false. I'm free thinking here, so bear with me. If Angelic only enforces that I speak 'my truth', then I can lie about 'the TRUTH' as long as I believe what I am saying. So, one angel can say "The Purity Crusade was wrong" and another can say "The Purity Crusade was right" and as long as both are speaking 'my truth' each statement is a perfectly valid thing to say in Angelic. In Helltongue however, I would guess that a celestial could at best only speak 'my truth' and there is either no such concept as 'the TRUTH' or it is equivalent to 'my truth.' Perhaps the dissonance generated by learning and lying with Helltongue is that the angel embraces 'my truth' over 'the TRUTH'. One problem I see with that argument however is that the angel can do the very same thing in his or her native Angelic tongue and not gain dissonance. So when should an angel gain dissonance for speaking Helltongue? Is it when they speak a 'my truth' that is contrary to 'the TRUTH'? I don't know, but I think that's a question best left to the individual GM anyhow. So, I shant worry my pretty little head about it anymore because it hurts to do so, almost like... dissonance. Yep, Helltongue bad. On to another topic. Thanks, everyone who indulged my little tangent. Vaughn - - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - "Never abandon faith that people can learn the In Nomine Mailing List conventions, even in the slowest of newbie posters, until I have no choice" (I'm guessing) Archangel Beth's 1st Oath ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 19:58:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> hobbies, was Re: Poetry duels - --- cassandra benner wrote: > Now admitadly i am thinking on a tangent, but what > are the superiors > hobbies? Hmm... I've suggested a few, from time to time, as part of my insidious plot to humanize a bunch of near-omnipotent entities that aren't even close to human (even the Mercurians). Let's see: I've suggested that Larry cooks (for the humility factor, and also because I _want_ to see him on Iron Chef someday), Jean sings and Marc does theatricals. Oh, yes: Mike dances. Extremely well, in fact: to semiquote Robert Ludlum, good soldiers almost always do. They have to work fast on leaves, after all. :) Moe (still not back from the wilderness, btw) ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 06/05/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 20:09:30 -0700 From: Vaughn Romero Subject: RE: IN> Two oppositional attunements On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 "Phillip Des Jardins" wrote: > Tech Support (Jean) [snip] > A 1 would give the basic gist of the problem and the Celestial equivalent of RTFM [snip] > Bonehead User From Hell (Vapula) And my first thought reading these two attunements was an Adventure seed for demons: Your assignment is to inflict every technical writer you can with the Bonehead User From Hell attunement thus ensuring that every user manual they ever write is incomprehensible and/or completely functionless. Not even Jean Tech Support attunement will be able to save them... bwahahaha! Of course it also possible that most technical manuals are already written in Helltongue. That would explain why I feel so dirty at the end of a day. Vaughn, technically, a writer. - - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - "Never abandon faith, even in the lowest of the Fallen, until I have no choice." David's 1st Oath ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 21:35:38 -0700 From: Vaughn Romero Subject: IN> Request from a game log junky I don't know how most of you made your way to this list, or to playing In Nomine in particular, but I got into both by perusing the strange time capsule that is the Internet and finding game logs. Over the course of several months I have had the pleasure of reading some (IMHO) really exciting game logs posted by members of this very list. Of course, even as prolific writers and players as some of you seem to be, I seem to have exhausted the supply but not exhausted my demand. So, I have a simple request for you: More, please. I know, I know, some of you are writing Superiors 4, and others of you are the line editor with a new child, and still others of you live in Britain where that UTC +8 relative to me must delay the writing process, BUT it's still time for you folks to game. I don't want to start a Holy War, or Fiat Justitia on anyone, but it's not like Mary the Mother of God is Missing or anything. Just gather The League together and get over the Oops Cycle that seems to have dragged you down before everything Fades to Grey. If you can find time Between the Wars just game, game, game, and by all means post those logs. And if a lack of warm bodies is hindering your creative process, I'm sure there are plenty of people on this list who would glad to help you out. But even if we are not yet ready to be among the few and the proud who get to show up in the play tester credits, remember that we still like reading your stories. Heck, write a book, we might even pay for 'em. I figure if you ask for what you want, you might just get it. Vaughn, Hmmm maybe that Cherubim of Creation attunement does work after all. P.S. Question for those of you whose logs involve the IRC-like chat and automatic dice rolls: what software are you using and is it available to us mundanes? (and no, I have not been on a MOO, MUSH, whatever, before, so excuse my ignorance.) - - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - "Never abandon faith, even in the lowest of the Fallen, until I have no choice." David's 1st Oath ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 17:01:16 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re: Novalis Servitor Attunement > NOVALIS SERVITOR ATTUNEMENT > - --------------------------- [snip] > Rose Thorns (a.k.a Instant Karma) > While rumors speak of a celestial version of this > attunement, it is merely wishful thinking on the part of more militant > angels. Corporeal death is one thing, but promoting, or risking, soul-death > is not in the spirit of the word. > > * * * > > This might also work as a song, but I don't think that promoting Ethereal > and Celestial damage would fit Novalis' style. It is a Song - NC:Spines (LC:45). Changing it to Thorns was a good idea. As a NC, if used in Celestial it will cause Celestial damage. Rather than having it not function in Celestial/Ethereal combat (which would leave the Servitor of Flowers defenceless) why not require a Will roll to attack if doing so will risk losing a Force? In Ethereal combat, you could either again require a Will roll or make the acquired Discord automatically Cowardly/Fear(Combat). > I say let the Bad people wonder what that Essence expenditure was for or > find out the hard way. Allowing other Flower children to just burn essence, and let their opponents assume that the Attunement has been used? :-) > Comments and corrections welcomed. Good stuff. if you use my comments, having the damage taken linked to damage inflicted may cause problems, as you won't be sure whether an attack cost a Force. NC:Spines does flat damage, equal to the level the Song is known at; you might want to make the Attunement to damage equal to the relevant Forces of the angel? James. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 16:55:44 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Angels speaking demonic. >> * Helltongue is (I believe) a cousin of Angelic. At the >> very least the two >> "modern" languages share a common mother tongue. > > Canon says that Helltongue is actually a corrupt version > of Angelic. It also says that demons can speak Angelic, so > your point about Lucifer is moot. > As for angels not understanding Helltongue, I suspect > that the problem has less to do with lexicography than > context. In Angelic it is impossible to lie, while > Helltongue makes this easy. It's that sort of difference > in communicated concepts that makes Helltongue > incomprehensible to angels, IMHO. The demonic language can be learned by an angel - the cost is 5 character points and a point of dissonance (and, of course, a teacher). Any time an angel lies in the demonic tongue, they gain a point of dissonance. it's described in detail in H&H, p55. Entertainment occurs when a demon redeems - they still know Demonic, so if negotiations between Heaven and Hell are going on, the demons can always ask the ex-demon to confirm the truth in Helltongue...... Are you prepared to gain dissonance for Heaven? james. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 03:35:40 -0700 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Request from a game log junky . Over the course of > several months I have had the pleasure of reading some (IMHO) really > exciting game logs posted by members of this very list. Of course, even as > prolific writers and players as some of you seem to be, I seem to have > exhausted the supply but not exhausted my demand. So, I have a simple > request for you: More, please. You've read all of the entries of In Nomine: Vancouver? Both of the Play By E-Mail links from my webpage lead to In Nomine game logs. http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ And if a lack of warm bodies is hindering your creative process, Mmmmm. Bodies. > I'm sure there are plenty of people on this list who would glad to help you > out. But even if we are not yet ready to be among the few and the proud who > get to show up in the play tester credits, remember that we still like > reading your stories. Heck, write a book, we might even pay for 'em. http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/books.html for the low-down. > I figure if you ask for what you want, you might just get it. > > Vaughn, Hmmm maybe that Cherubim of Creation attunement does work after all. > > P.S. Question for those of you whose logs involve the IRC-like chat and > automatic dice rolls: what software are you using and is it available to us > mundanes? (and no, I have not been on a MOO, MUSH, whatever, before, so > excuse my ignorance.) Uhhh . . . I use Quickdice sometimes when I don't have dice on hand. Not that I know where I found it . . . - -Perry/kfc perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu NEW WEB PAGE!!!!!! http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd "Be careful what you pretend to be because you are what you pretend to be. " - --Kurt Vonnegut ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 07:44:07 -0500 From: "Erich S. Arendall" Subject: Re: IN> Discussion or Edicts? > No. It's the case that I found it annoying to be lectured about what > Laurence's Word means by someone who seems convinced that I can't > possibly know what I'm talking about. As sassy as Mister David Edelstein (but I call him Davy!) can be, I am going to have to side with him on this one... It is clearly stated in the GMG (page 22) "Thus, while words may be ambiguous, Words are not." And I can understand how it could be frustrating to constantly have to reference your own works... in an empathic sort of way, I have yet to be in the actual situation. :) Bringing this back around towards topic, Laurence, Mister Sword or not, would not automatically cover flower-arranging simply by his Word being Sword. He follow's the Symphony's definition rather than man's. If I understand correctly, his word would only embrace other aspects if a.) he began altering his personal definition of the word and began promoting it that way or b.) something happened globally which changed the definition, rather than a portion of the world. Erich S. Arendall http://www.egrigor.com/ Egrigor | Bringing some colour into your drab little life. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 17:40:32 -0400 From: damienw@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> IN > Wondering about celestial languages On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 18:57:30 -0400 Elizabeth McCoy writes: > Ooooooo, nice point there. Must remember it. (Or he must rely on > redeemed > demons who have not had the knowledge wiped from their minds. It is > theoretically possible for a never-experienced-dissonance demon to > decide > to become an angel (free will, so grand!), redeem successfully, and > then > go on to translate Helltongue...) > > (Not _likely_. But possible.) And, given we're dealing with immortal beings here, it only takes ONE. :) - --- damienw[et]juno.com "To kill a man between panels is to condemn him to a thousand deaths." - Scott McCloud ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 23:35:25 +0100 From: "Christopher Lee" Subject: IN> When will SJGames declare IN officially dead? Or will it? Dear all, I have been lurking for a while and I don't want to spoil anyone's reverie - but it occurs to me that IN might be dead. I am sure this has been mentioned on the list before and I am merely going back over old territory but I am surprised that I haven't seen more worry about it. I know the statement on the website is overtly positive and says it will be back. However, it implicitly implies that the game is under total review and is only probably coming back. I was not initially worried, but recently I have been to a few games shops, all of whom were dumping IN stuff in the bargain bins and clearing it off the shelves. So I ask myself what is going on? I have no desire to see this wonderful game go the way of so many other classics over the years. However, I fear it will. Or can someone tell me differently? I sincerely hope so! However, even if it is canned by SJ there is no reason why it cannot continue to thrive, it will just transcend to the Net, so I don't suppose the loss of the line is too much of a worry. A good example is 2300AD, which some of you might remember as Traveller 2300. It got canned long ago, probably in the early 90's and then GDW went bust anyway. The licence has been bought by someone who does nothing with it and no new material has appeared for years. However, there is a healthy list on the Net with plenty of spin-offs and loads of unofficial material appearing. Don't mean to scaremonger, I am sure SJ will contiue, but these events have distrubed me and I am just hoping for a bit of clarification. Chris Lee ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 16:22:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> When will SJGames declare IN officially dead? Or will it? - --- Christopher Lee wrote: > Dear all, > > I have been lurking for a while and I don't want to > spoil anyone's reverie - but it occurs to me that IN > might be dead. I've worried about this, myself, but I think that it isn't dead quite yet. Bear in mind that I have no official connection with SJG or the IN line*: I'm merely basing it on my ten years of observation of my favorite RPG vendor. I've never seen Steve Jackson mealymouth on anything: if he was going to just cancel the line, he'd say so. That he hasn't leads me to the conclusion that he's either still undecided, planning to keep cutting back the line drastically or going to do ... something else, whatever it is. Reply hazy: ask again later. > However, even if it is canned by SJ there is no > reason why it cannot continue to thrive, it will > just transcend to the Net, so I don't suppose the > loss of the line is too much of a worry. Well, yes and no. Yes, in the sense that people will still write and post IN material (I ain't planning to stop anytime soon: I've just cut back 'cuz my computer hasn't moved to Maryland yet): bad, because frankly I LIKED getting paid for that IN character in Pyramid, and I'd like to feel that sensation again. :) Moe *Dammit. ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 06/05/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2274 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.