From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Jun 27 22:18:11 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28205 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 22:18:11 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id DAA18006 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 30 Oct 2000 03:04:38 -0600 Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 03:04:38 -0600 Message-Id: <200010300904.DAA18006@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2280 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, October 30 2000 Volume 01 : Number 2280 In this digest: IN> "And I Feel Fine" -- Part 3: The First Horseman IN> T-Shirt Slogans... Re: IN> 'Houston, we have outright fanboyishness...' Re: IN> T-Shirt Slogans... RE: IN> Gabrielites and other connotations IN> Oaths to Lilim IN> Fwd: Re: In Nomine Digests broken again? Re: IN> T-Shirt Slogans... Re: IN> "And I Feel Fine" -- Part 3: The First Horseman Re: IN> T-Shirt Slogans... Re: IN> T-Shirt Slogans... Re: IN> T-Shirt Slogans... IN> T-shirt Slogans RE: IN> Gabrielites and other connotations Re: IN> T-Shirt Slogans... Re: IN> T-shirt Slogans Re: IN> T-shirt Slogans Re: IN> T-shirt Slogans RE: IN> Gabrielites and other connotations IN> Re: Vivian's Band/Word Re: IN> T-Shirt Slogans... Re: IN> T-Shirt Slogans... Re: IN> T-Shirt Slogans... Re: IN> T-Shirt Slogans... *William Tries a Beth Invocation* IN> The Black and White Gaurdian RE: IN> Gabrielites and other connotations ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 10:09:01 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> "And I Feel Fine" -- Part 3: The First Horseman "Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals. And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, "Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?" But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it. I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. Then one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals." -- Revelation 5:1-5 * * * * * * * Roleplaying seed: Conversion Experiences It rapidly becomes obvious to everyone in Heaven that Christianity is true. But *how* true? And what *kind* of Christianity? The returnees from the Upper Heavens include plenty of humans and angels who used to be of other faiths, but none of them have useful information on these questions. What, then, should angels do concerning their human Soldiers and servants? Almost everyone on Earth is having a rough time, right now. Theological debate doesn't attract a lot of interest. But looking for spiritual strength is another matter. Look for it *where*? * * * * * * * "And the dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority." -- Revelation 13:1-2 * * * * * * * Even Lucifer is taken in, at least briefly, by Michael's ruse. He decides the time is right to move one of his pawns forward on the world's chessboard. This is an extraordinary man, a Soldier of Lucifer who started with seven Forces, and to whom Lucifer has added three more for a total of ten: The Soldier, one Cezar Therrian, was given the Forces and Resonnances of a balseraph, a lilim, and an impudite. All these resonnances are very useful in his career as a UN diplomat. The UN is in ruins. The UN building in New York City is simply gone, along with most of the rest of New York, and a large chunk of its bureaucracy is dead, in various catastrophes around the world. This includes the Secretary General. Therrian moves from diplomatic background to foreground with supernal speed and becomes the new UN Secretary General, saving the UN from oblivion and re-convening the Security Council in Rome, which is relatively untouched, just beyond the general disaster area that is the eastern Mediterranean. He declares that world-wide disaster relief has to be the UN's sole concern and publically begs for the help of the member nations. Privately, he pulls in geases. He begins laying the foundations for his future empire. Therrian is, of course, the Antichrist. Lucifer has read Revelation, too, and he knows full well that the Antichrist only comes into play in the End Times. And he wasn't going to start the End Times when it looked like he could lose. But now, with Michael apparently out of the way, it looks like the crucial prophecies cannot be fulfilled for Heaven. Even so, Lucifer is being cautious. Therrian is under orders to found his empire slowly. It isn't like there's a hurry. Heaven looks like it is in disarray, Michael looks gone, and Therrian has plenty of personal time, already being over 170 years old, thanks to his command of various Songs. * * * * * * * "I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, "Come!" I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest." - -- Revelation 6:1-2 * * * * * * * Lucifer's caution is wise. that's why it can't be allowed to continue. Gabriel was always the spark of divine inspiration. Of course, *divine* inspiration is not a good thing for Hell. From her place by the Throne, she fans the flame of Therrian's ambition. There is an elegant office in the Vatican. Here, the turmoil of the aching world does not show. This office has been put at the disposal of the UN Secretary General, while he reorganizes that world body. He writes on a laptop, placed on a baroque desk two hundred times older than it is. Suddenly, there is another man in the room, in severe formal dress, looking young, fair, and human, though he is none of those things. Lucifer: "My son, what are you doing? That order you are composing is the founding of a world empire, no matter how you couch it in terms of humble service to suffering humanity." Therrian (concealing the dread he always feels at these meetings, and the additional shock of realizing -- again -- how closely he is watched): "My Father, is this not your plan for us?" Lucifer: "Yes, but not yet. We must verify the reports from the battlefield." Therrian: "Have you not personally interrogated Belial's own surviving captains? (All of them spirits more intelligent than their late master.) Father, the world is ripe. With every day we wait, the nations recover another step from Gabriel's death-throes. They become that much harder to subdue." The debate goes back and forth, but in the end the Tempter is tempted. He decides that, even if all his old foes are not dead, some must be, and the rest must be much weakened. Then best to strike quickly. He agrees to Therrian's plan. The next morning, Therrian announces the creation of myriads of "recovery zones" in the world's remaining population centers. There, food, shelter, and medical care will be supplied to all who come. And there, UN troops and other armed forces under UN control will maintain order. All in a spirit of humanitarian aid. At his side, in the background as he makes the announcement, stands a bald, hatchet-faced figure in dark, vaguely clerical garb. It is Kronos, in the Role of Therrian's "spiritual advisor." * * * * * * * Roleplaying seed: The Beast at His Best Angelic PCs *know* who Therrian is, and what he's doing. What do they do about it? Do they tell their human servants and friends? Start organizing resistance? So far, there is no Archangelic direction, and *so* *far*, Therrian is doing little but good in the world. How do they react to human street-theologians denouncing Therrian as the Antichrist? (This is bound to happen, without any celestial assistance at all. It has happened many times before with far less provocation. They just happen to be right this time.) Angels who decide to cooperate with the UN recovery effort, for the time being, may be discomfitted to find themselves working along side demons. Angels who decide to resist immediately will be looked at askance by perfectly benign humans who wonder what their problem with Therrian is. * * * * * * * Roleplaying seed: Flower Arrangements What are angels of Flowers to do, come Armageddon? It becomes more important than ever that they foster peace, so long as it is between those who do not serve Therrian. But, along with the angels of Protection, many of them are put to work healing. Angels of Flowers and Protections are likely to find themselves sent to one of the many disaster areas, in hastily arranged medical Roles, trying to help the hurting while they are still taking cram courses in the Song of Healing and mundane medical skills. * * * * * * * Roleplaying seed: Deserting At almost any time during the Tribulation, PCs of either side can be engaged in helping mortals defect from one side to the other. For politicians, diplomats, spies, and soldiers, these will be for-real defections into or out of Therrian's rule. For more ordinary folk, it may be a matter of sneaking into or out of the "recovery zones," acquiring or losing a paper trail. These adventures can, of course, happen with or without celestials or Soldiers involved. * * * * * * * Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 14:22:04 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> T-Shirt Slogans... Okay, once upon a time, I and spouse were thinking up T-shirt slogans for In Nomine. Or In Nomine slogans for T-shirts. Whatever. I found the slip of paper while unpacking some stuff in the library. Enjoy. Or don't. O:> - ----- Body by Andre Geas/1: Kiss the Cook Body by Haagenti Angel: Touch Here I am NOT a Balseraph! [I have a button that says this...] That Favor _Wasn't_ a Freebie! Bumpersticker: This car protected by [Malakite/Calabite/Cherub] Practice Random Acts of Kindness and Senseless Violence Seraphim Aren't Ignorant -- Just Clueless I like you -- you're beautiful, intelligent, & full of Essence. In Nomine - Goodness has nothing to do with it. Malakim - Paladins in Black Leather Makes Lilim Blush You May Approach (Perfection) Now Approaching Perfection I Don't Know What I'm Doing Here, but I'm Going to Talk to my Superior About It. My Host is Out of His Mind RIght Now - Leave a Message. Vessel/1 - Don't Hit Ofanite - Decaf Won't Help No, Ofanim _Never_ Stop Moving... Servitor of Haagenti - Let's Do Lunch Malakim - Angels In Black Leather Servitor of Asmodeus - Just Say No to Redemption Servitor of Jordi: Party Animal Servitor of Kobal - How many angels does it take to screw in a light bulb? I'm not quite sure, but I got it all on film. Seraphim will not lie with you. Servitor of Kobal - Have a Nice Trip I'm Only Renegade if They Catch Me Habbalite - Think of Me as Evolution in Action emccoy@nh.ultranet.com, Uppity Wynch http://brie.bmsc.washington.edu/people/merritt/books/Eye_of_Argon.html "rumoured to contain hoards of plunder, and many young wenches" Mike [falsetto]: "We're tired of these degrading patriachical slurs! From now on we demand to be called 'wynchys.'" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 14:37:06 EDT From: Galen Silversmith Subject: Re: IN> 'Houston, we have outright fanboyishness...' > From: Earl Wajenberg > > If you go to the other extreme and hew to Gaiman, fitting IN > > around the edges, all of the Endless are kind of super-Ethereals, > > mostly unconcerned with the matters of the celestials except where > > they cross their province. > > Here's my own take on the Endless in IN: > > In "Season of Mists," Dream acknowledges frankly that Lucifer is > much more powerful than he, though even then, in the event of his > death, he says a new manifestation of himself will emerge from the > dreaming. He is pretty unconcerned about demons. He is respectful > to angels, though that may be because of their office rather than > their inherent power. There is more to it than that; Dream also states, in Season of the Mists, that the demon (I forget which; the one he has to enter to retrieve his former lover) was a fool to challenge him in Dream; that elsewhere he might have been at risk, but not in Dream's home realm. I would put the endless on Par, as individuals, with upper tier Angels and Demons (18, plus their equivalent of word forces), but below Archangels and Demon Prices. There is also a problem in fitting the Endless into the IN universe; if Dream is lord of the Dreamrealm and the marches, his power and range of control exist far beyond that of his siblings, including being inadvertant master of his sibling's domains in the Far Marches. It also provides some other interesting ties. Delight would possibly have become Delerium due to Uriel's purity crusade. The 'soft places' would allow unaware mortals and others to pass between the ethereal and corporeal accidentally, and there would be a mechanism to tranform (a small number) humans into extremely powerful Ethereals. It also answers the question of where Cain, Able, and Eve are... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 18:49:31 -0000 From: "Fallen Seraph" Subject: Re: IN> T-Shirt Slogans... I made one for myself (and worn it so much its gone all ratty) " I'm the ANGEL the DEVIL Warned you about " on the front and " The 8th Virtue 2000 " on the back. Some of those quotes look tempting, and I need a replacement... - -FallenSeraph (who thinks he plays this game a leeeeetle too much) "I still believe in God, but He no longer believes in me..." http://eternalcity.freeservers.com ICQ: 110193631 _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 06:41:04 -0600 From: "Julian Mensch" Subject: RE: IN> Gabrielites and other connotations [Fire has Enlightment, Vengence, and countless other connotations... and they're dissonance condition means basically they are stuck constantly doing nothing but punishing the Cruel for their mistress's pleasure so I'm not sure this might exactly be true.... Fire Servitor 1: I wanted to prostelize the good word but I had to set the Preacher's wife on fire for being mean... Fire Servitor 2: I wanted to help a girl play the violin and become passionate about it but I had to set her instructor on fire...] I'm actually really unimpressed with the way IN treated Gabby and the Word of Fire. They touch on the fact that Fire has all these other interesting connotations (passion, vengeance, inspiration, transformation, rebirth, cleansing, etc.) and that Gabriel is the angel responsible for revealing much of the Western monothiestic tradition, but what it ultimately comes down to is that all her servitors really do is "punish the cruel," and that's a terribly one-dimensional role IMO. In cynical moods, I'm inclined to think that Gabriel was written to be "kewl" -- that is, "she's like this megababe that hunts down all the street scum and fries their asses, and she's like psycho and uncontrollable, and her servitors get to do whatever they want as long as they fry a bully every few days." In short, she's an adolescant power fantasy, sex fantasy and revenge fantasy all in one. (I'm _not_ speaking about her _Superiors_ writeup, which I'm sure is much more three-dimensional than this, as I've heard from good sources they are all very well done.) Although, I must admit, a missionary who occasionally has to set the preacher's wife on fire does have interesting comic potential... :) - -- Julian Mensch ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 12:42:31 -0400 From: Daniel Sauve Subject: IN> Oaths to Lilim On Wed, 27 Jun 2001 12:42:31 +1100, "james walker" wrote: >Nothing personal, I swore an oath to a Lilim to kill two demons of her >choice every year - much better than Geases! (And yes, he had). Was the Lilim a Bright or not? - -- Your GM Daniel Sauve (in nomine, shadowrun, earthdawn, hero unlimited) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 16:06:31 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Fwd: Re: In Nomine Digests broken again? Got permission to forward this... >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 11:36:17 -0700 >To: Elizabeth McCoy >From: Mark Cogan >Subject: Re: In Nomine Digests broken again? > >At 02:40 PM 6/27/01 -0400, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >>I went to http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/digests/ and got a >>"page not found." (This is the link from /in-nomine/lists.html .) >> >>Apparently it's been like that for a few days. Halp? > >Yeah. We know about that ... can't say when it will get fixed. > >Technical explanation: > >The digests are on a shared network volume hosted by one machine (pyramid) >and then mounted by another (sphynx). Sphynx is the webserver. After the IO >move last weekend, we saw massive I/O bottlenecking over the shared volume >which was crashing the whole machine ... so we've un-shared the volume for >now. This means that web access to the IN archives is down at the moment. > >The ultimate cause of the problem is unknown (well -- actually, the >ultimate cause is that we are caught up in the illusory nature of the >samsara and are thus doomed to suffer, but you know what I mean). I would >_guess_ that it's a router issue, although I'm not at all certain. > >The good news: We have specced a shiny new server with enough horsepower >and disk space to take over from both of the old machines several times >over. Hopefully we'll be able to put that in place in the nearish future. >failing that, I can't honestly say when we'll have the network volume >problem fixed. We may need input from IO on this. > > >Mark Cogan >marq@sjgames.com >Mercenary Code Monkey ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 15:58:01 -0400 From: Daniel Sauve Subject: Re: IN> T-Shirt Slogans... ARCHANGEL TEES ALL ARCHS Back: Their "the world is..." line and an image represenitive of them. Blandine Front: See you in your dreams... CHRISTOPHER FRONT: "Suffer the little children, come on to me." (Anyone have Book/chapter/ verse for that?) DOMINIC FRONT: heavenly judgement and law incarnate... ELI: Fine art. Booze. Orgies. God, it's almost the perfect job... Gabriel: And the cruel shall feel my fire... JANUS: ...and mayhem ensues. JEAN: No idea. Jordi: Civilization is a lie... LAURENCE: My blade is worse than my bite. OR Master of the Armies of God MARC: You have my word on it. MICHAEL: No surrender, no retreat. NOVALIS: Mind the thorns, dearie. YVES: ...and Yves just smiles... - -- Your GM Daniel Sauve (in nomine, shadowrun, earthdawn, hero unlimited) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 13:05:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> "And I Feel Fine" -- Part 3: The First Horseman Thoroughly enjoyable. The only thing that sets of my spidey sense is the conversation between Therrian and Lucifer -- It seemed like the Lightbringer was convinced too easily there. Other than that it's great. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Fall down seven times, get up eight." - -- Japanese proverb __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 16:08:09 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> T-Shirt Slogans... >Malakim - Paladins in Black Leather So help me, I am going to find a t-shirt place and have this one made! Choir symbol on the back, writing on the front, white decals on black cotton. - -- Casca _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 13:17:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> T-Shirt Slogans... - --- Daniel Sauve wrote: > ARCHANGEL TEES > > ALL ARCHS Back: Their "the world is..." line and an image > represenitive of them. I like it so far. > CHRISTOPHER FRONT: "Suffer the little children, come on > to me." (Anyone have Book/chapter/ verse for that?) It's one of the Gospels. That's the best I can do without a Bible in front of me. > DOMINIC FRONT: heavenly judgement and law incarnate... > > JEAN: No idea. Hello, McFly -- Revelation and Development! > Jordi: Civilization is a lie... Ooo, nice. > LAURENCE: My blade is worse than my bite. > OR > Master of the Armies of God Option B, definitely. And let's not forget... KHALID: You will believe... ZADKIEL: I am your shield. LITHEROY: The truth shall make you free. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Fall down seven times, get up eight." - -- Japanese proverb __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 17:07:58 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> T-Shirt Slogans... Daniel Sauve wrote: > > ARCHANGEL TEES > CHRISTOPHER FRONT: "Suffer the little children, come on to me." > (Anyone have Book/chapter/ verse for that?) Matthew 19:13, Mark 10:14, and Luke 10:16. (It's part of the the synoptic material, repeated in those three gospels.) This is also the place where Jesus said that the kingdom of heaven belonged to such as them, and that one had to become as a little child to enter the Kingdom, all of which would delight Christopher. > JEAN: No idea. The four Maxwell equations, describing electromagnetic radiaiton, followed by "...and there was light." Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 14:35:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: IN> T-shirt Slogans Tried to send this once before -- hope it works this time. ALAEMON: I won't tell a soul... ANDREALPHUS: I won't hurt you... much. ASMODEUS: Let the games begin. BAAL: Let slip the dogs of war! BELETH: Pleasant dreams... will elude you. BELIAL: If you're not fire, you're fuel. FLEURITY: Better living through chemistry. FURFUR: Go ahead and scream -- I like that. HAAGENTI: You are what you eat. KOBAL: I always knock 'em dead. KRONOS: All the time in the world -- is mine. LILITH: What's it worth to you? MALPHAS: Hey, I'm on your side. MAMMON: How much is enough? Just a little bit more. NYBBAS: Say cheese... SAMINGA: First you die. Then it gets worse. VALEPHOR: What's yours is mine. VAPULA: Knowledge is power. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Fall down seven times, get up eight." - -- Japanese proverb __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 21:39:24 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: RE: IN> Gabrielites and other connotations > > In cynical moods, I'm inclined to think that Gabriel was written >to be "kewl" Well yeah. Can this be a surprise? You can say the same about Lilith and Eli in particular (no shock that they're the best loved of the superiors...) jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 21:43:51 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> T-Shirt Slogans... > > JEAN: No idea. > >The four Maxwell equations, describing electromagnetic radiaiton, >followed by "...and there was light." > "And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And the rest of the electromagnetic spectrum came into being too ..." - --Genesis 1:3 (amended jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 16:45:17 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> T-shirt Slogans From: "Michael Walton" > > ANDREALPHUS: I won't hurt you... much. Or "It only hurts the first few times." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 17:49:29 -0500 From: "Erich S. Arendall" Subject: Re: IN> T-shirt Slogans Going a slightly different route, with a little more of a marketing schpeil... Front of the T-shirt: "And God said, 'Let there be dice' and it was good." Back: The In Nomine Flaming Feather above the words "In Nomine" - --- Erich S. Arendall http://www.egrigor.com/in-nomine/ "I'm confused. That Calabite of Fire just did /how/ much damage?" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 20:12:46 -0400 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN> T-shirt Slogans IOLANTHE: Shiny! Gimme! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 18:49:28 -0600 From: "Julian Mensch" Subject: RE: IN> Gabrielites and other connotations > In cynical moods, I'm inclined to think that Gabriel was written >to be "kewl" Well yeah. Can this be a surprise? You can say the same about Lilith and Eli in particular (no shock that they're the best loved of the superiors...) - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Maybe that came out wrong. I'm not against "kewl" powers, characters, Superiors or anything else on principle. "Kewl" can be a lot of fun at times, and pretty much everyone that I know (me included) subscribes to some adolescant fantasy or another. But "kewlness" is not good if it gets in the way of a more serious work's tone or thematic structure. Eli I have mixed feelings about. Canon IN is supposed to be good versus evil, or at least not outright Backwards. They needed a pro-sexuality, pro-openness figure of some kind on the divine side if they really wanted them to seem to be "the good guys" to liberal gamer sensibilities. And there is a lot of comic potential in the "frat boy AA" stereotype. That said, Eli can be very frusterating to try to work into serious or dark games at times. Still, the fundamental fact is that Eli's Servitors are _interesting_ and there's room to work in a lot of depth and complexity with them in a serious game. As with Novalis, the "kewl" aspects are easy to brush over into a more serious character. Lilith I actually have no problems with the way she is portrayed. Yeah, sure, she's "kewl," but she's also complex and ethically grey and is described as a fully realized, believable character. And her Servitors, like Eli's, have the potential to be serious, mature and complex characters; indeed, they are arguably the most complex Word in hell. So Lilith gets a free pass from me for the glamour and the fanboyishness. If she's written for the sensibilities of 14-year-old boys (and she is), then hot damn! those are some intelligent, visionary and literate 14-year-olds. But Gabriel... is irksome. I'm not really against the idea of an insane megababe vigilainte Archangel. There's even some (_very_ loose) precedent for that kind of character in Milton and other sources: angels are beautiful, angels are passionate and the Angel of Vengeance has strong mythic precedence. But _Gabriel_ is literally the most important angel of all, with a cruical role in Christian and Islamic mythlore -- a role that has _nothing_ to do with punishing the cruel. And so we get our "kewl" Gabriel with all the /really/ interesting bits just tacked on. The angel of Hope is Gabriel's closest servitor. Gabriel is the only AA with direct divine revelations. The Word of Fire covers inspiration, passion, cleansing, transformation and a host of other really interesting things. But when you make a Gabrielite character, you are locked from day one into playing the vigilainte concept by the dissonance condition. And that, for me, is the point where kewl stops being a feature and becomes a rather severe bug. - -- Julian Mensch ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 10:53:46 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re: Vivian's Band/Word > From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Erich S. Arendall wrote: > >> The Young Ones? >> >> ...Great. Now I keep picturing Vivian as a Calabite of HardCore. > > Naw, Calabite of Haagenti. He's used the Rite on damn near every episode. Nope. A Maw would have eaten that leg he stole from the graveyard, not attached it to the front of his car. The hampster, on the other hand, would likely be a demonling of gluttony - it did devour the entire cauldron of lentils under 5 seconds, and could bite Vivian hard enough to hurt. I don't believe that we're doing this, BTW. James. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 18:19:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> T-Shirt Slogans... I liked the 8th Virtue one (I'd BUY the 8th Virtue one, actually). Still, I'm surprised that this one hasn't come up yet: "My Superior went to the First Rebellion and all I got was this lousy T-shirt". Moe (Who may come up with less cheesy ones later) Lane ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 06/05/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 22:06:33 -0400 From: Jason Schneiderman Subject: Re: IN> T-Shirt Slogans... So no one's caught this yet? >CHRISTOPHER FRONT: "Suffer the little children, come on to me." I imagine it's "come unto me." What you've written is more appropriate for Humbert, Demon of Paedophilia. * * * * * Jason Schneiderman jadasc@ma.ultranet.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 22:31:02 -0400 From: Daniel Sauve Subject: Re: IN> T-Shirt Slogans... On Wed, 27 Jun 2001 13:17:40 -0700 (PDT), Michael Walton wrote: >--- Daniel Sauve wrote: >> ARCHANGEL TEES >> >> ALL ARCHS Back: Their "the world is..." line and an image >> represenitive of them. > > I like it so far. Thanks. > >> CHRISTOPHER FRONT: "Suffer the little children, come on >> to me." (Anyone have Book/chapter/ verse for that?) > > It's one of the Gospels. That's the best I can do >without a Bible in front of me. I'm sure SOMEONE will find it. > >> DOMINIC FRONT: heavenly judgement and law incarnate... >> >> JEAN: No idea. > > Hello, McFly -- Revelation and Development! DUH! Thanks, Mike, Perfect! >> Jordi: Civilization is a lie... > Ooo, nice. First line of his write up. :) >> LAURENCE: My blade is worse than my bite. >> OR >> Master of the Armies of God > > Option B, definitely. Thought so. > > And let's not forget... > >KHALID: You will believe... Nice. > >ZADKIEL: I am your shield. VERY appropo! > >LITHEROY: The truth shall make you free. Litheroy is the Hacktivist of angels, in a way... - -- Your GM Daniel Sauve (in nomine, shadowrun, earthdawn, hero unlimited) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 22:59:06 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> T-Shirt Slogans... *William Tries a Beth Invocation* >I liked the 8th Virtue one (I'd BUY the 8th Virtue >one, actually). > >Still, I'm surprised that this one hasn't come up yet: > >"My Superior went to the First Rebellion and all I got >was this lousy T-shirt". > >Moe (Who may come up with less cheesy ones later) Lane So would I (the "8th Virtue" one, that is). I was reluctant to bring this up earlier, but now that someone else has expressed the sentiment, I'm emboldened. There's a website called CafePress.com, where you can get T-shirts and mugs and such made cheap. I'm in a *very* informal organization that used them to get some of those made. We're not talking big orders here -- there can't be a hundred people in this organization, tops. (I forget -- they may just make them on order.) I did order a T-shirt and a mug, and in fact the T-shirt's comfortably wearable and the mug is a perfectly acceptable drinking cup. I'd be eager and willing to set up something just like this through CafePress. However, I need to know some things first. The BIG one, of course, is licensing issues. Would SJGames be bothered by this if I did it? Would there necessarily be a prohibitive (to a private citizen) licensing fee? What kind of hoops are we looking at here, if any?* If that's covered, I'd just check prices and costs (I'm fairly sure such a T-shirt would be in the $15-$20 range), and it could be good to know whether many people would be interested in the poduct. Happily deluded by visions of an In Nomine clothing line, I am: William *Hey, if SJGames wants to keep their license and have this printed up themselves, *I*'d buy it. Off of CafePress, or at my Friendly Neighborhood Comic Shop. :^) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 23:11:58 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> The Black and White Gaurdian Yves and Michael's friendship was until Gabriel unbreakable for Michael knows the secret of Yves that keeps him loyal to the doddering old man more than any angel has a right to be loyal to him for...Michael knows Yves is God. Not a fragment of God like most angels or even a perspective of God removed from omnisience but honest to good IS God...unfortunately Michael is also aware that his beloved father and friend is no longer omnipotent or omniscient and Michael is worried now that he might also be corruptable. Lucifer is the only other being who knows this secret which he shares with Kronos, who is God as well (surprise surprise). Roughly 24,000 years ago (gee I wonder what this could be leading up to) God was visiting routinely the Heavens through Yves which served as what is best summed up as an avatar. However during this period God made a choice which at last began comming to a head and that was that he would continue to spin his omniscent limitless soul into the weaving tapestry that was creation until he was no more as "God" because of his love for multiplicity and love of the universe's many many souls. Humanity was to be his crowning achievement in this regard because angels despite their interesting natures were fundementally flawed beings who were still too static and fundementally one perspectived to be anything more than parts of a greater symphony which thus led to the creation of God's crowning achievement in man who would straddle all perspectives..... Unfortunately or Fortunately God is a essentially dynamic creator and made the possibility that at some point with his many new perspectives it may come a point humanity would desire a creator again or he would care to reunite after multitudes of perspectives so he created the Ourebous of Infinity which would possess the power to undo all of what had come before and restore the universe back to it's fundemental unified perspective. Yves at present is all that remains of God and it was this decision which drove Lucifer to his rebellion in belief the Creator had gone mad. Lucifer shattered the device when he killed the Metatron and stole it but he was only able to recover half before Michael was able to drive him away and to this day the forbidden object spoken of in the Testament of Lucifer in Yves's "Special Section" of the Libary is completely forgotten of save by those two. The fragment's powers are immense make no doubt and allow Lucifer the strange ability to grant words, elevate demons, ressurect those killed by demons, and even transform humans into celestials as he did when he bound Lilith's forces to her current form. The object was used to create Legion in hopes of recreating God in a saner form but when that failed Lucifer began assmiliating the souls in the Lower Hells to create Kronos..... Yves keeps his fragment around his person as well as the fragment is used to channel energy of the universe into the subjects but Yves is more skeptical of such undertakings as Lucifer and thus tries to mitigate it by only using the power channeled into him by the rest of the Council. In affect to make a being alittle more of God.... This situation is interesting enough as it is if not for the fact this titanic secret was inevitable to get out someday and get out it has despite Lucifer's best efforts...Gebbeleth learned of the Object and was entrapped in a dagger for it. Malphas has figured out the philosophy himself by studying humanity's soul and is actually a quisling in Hell itself to carry on God's plan...he merely intends to find the fragments and destroy them. Saminga knows since it was his servitor the object he was allowed to use to create Legion and his occult knowledge and "playing dumb" routine allowed him to identify it. Valephor certainly knows as he had the object in his hands when he destroyed Gebnubath.....he actually is Janus and Yves has given him the task of retrieving the other fragment. It is likely in addition to Michael (who even know considers what he will do once the object is in his posession), Gabriel, Uriel, and Raphael knew something of it as well. The situation finally of course hits it's powder keg when Janus/Valephor suceeds in stealing the object...uniting it...and is destroyed...driving the object on the mortal plane where it cannot be found by celestial means. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 23:18:24 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: RE: IN> Gabrielites and other connotations > Eli I have mixed feelings about. Canon IN is supposed to >be good versus evil, or at least not outright Backwards. >They needed a pro-sexuality, pro-openness figure of some >kind on the divine side if they really wanted them to seem >to be "the good guys" to liberal gamer sensibilities. And >there is a lot of comic potential in the "frat boy AA" >stereotype. That said, Eli can be very frusterating to try >to work into serious or dark games at times. There's a really nice vignette in the Liber Reliquarum that could help out with this. A Malakite angel of Lightning has sought out Eli on Earth to learn about the making of relics. She's quite uncomfortable with the apparent disorganization of the surroundings (a trait I would personally change, since it is my experience that the creative process is far more efficient in a clean and organized environment, but that's neither here nor there) and the general "slackness" she thinks he's dropped into. However, when he's actually employing his powers and doing the teaching, our protagonist is forcefully reminded that she is in the presence of one of the oldest and most powerful Archangels, one who taps into one of the most powerful and least understandable processes in the Symphony with a direct line to God as Alpha. > But Gabriel... is irksome. I'm not really against the idea >of an insane megababe vigilainte Archangel. There's even some >(_very_ loose) precedent for that kind of character in Milton >and other sources: angels are beautiful, angels are passionate >and the Angel of Vengeance has strong mythic precedence. But >_Gabriel_ is literally the most important angel of all, with >a cruical role in Christian and Islamic mythlore -- a role >that has _nothing_ to do with punishing the cruel. And so we >get our "kewl" Gabriel with all the /really/ interesting bits >just tacked on. The angel of Hope is Gabriel's closest servitor. Really? I'd've said Soldekai was closest to Gabriel... >Gabriel is the only AA with direct divine revelations. The Word >of Fire covers inspiration, passion, cleansing, transformation >and a host of other really interesting things. But when you make >a Gabrielite character, you are locked from day one into playing >the vigilainte concept by the dissonance condition. And that, >for me, is the point where kewl stops being a feature and becomes >a rather severe bug. I can see this. As a GM, one possible solution is to simply give the angel few targets -- leave them long stretches where their dissonance condition doesn't activate. A strict reading of the "No Roll Required" enhancement also leaves me to wonder whether an angel may simply not attempt to activate his specialized perception for that kind of cruelty, focusing instead on Fire's original inspirative intent. That is, I'm not sure if the angel must make an effort, or at least "turn on" the ability by being generally receptive at the moment, or if they receive the information whether willing or not. Finally, you could go with Moe's favorite solution. :^) >-- Julian Mensch William ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2280 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.