From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Jul 10 13:04:06 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29367 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:04:06 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id NAA11454 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:03:14 -0500 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:03:14 -0500 Message-Id: <200107101803.NAA11454@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2294 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, July 10 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2294 In this digest: Re: IN> How to seduce your Archangel/demon prince IN> In Nomine vs. WoD Re: IN> In LARP Re: Fwd: Re: IN> Religion in Hell Re: Fwd: Re: IN> Religion in Hell IN> WoD / IN vignette Re: IN> In Nomine vs. WoD Re: IN> How to seduce your Archangel/demon prince Re: IN> How to seduce your Archangel/demon prince IN> The Partition IN> "And I Feel Fine" - Part 7: Locusts Re: IN> In Nomine vs. WoD Re: Fwd: Re: IN> Religion in Hell Re: IN> Screamers (nope, not that at all) Re: IN> How to seduce your Archangel/demon prince ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 23:41:35 -0700 From: Anthony Damiani Subject: Re: IN> How to seduce your Archangel/demon prince Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 05:33:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> How to seduce your Archangel/demon prince - - --- Charles Phipps wrote: > How does one go about seducing their Archangel/Demon > Prince? In the case of Andre? Breathe.* Moe *And even that's not necessary, providing that you can catch him when he's bored. ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html There are harder DPs to seduce, but Andre is actually more difficult than one would imagine. It's just that the problems seducing him are difficult than trying to talk, say, Beleth into the sack (brrr...). Andre's always willing to go, but, first you have to attract his attention-- and Lust's entire power structure is predicated on the idea of sleeping you're way to the top. The competition is /merciless/. In all of Hell, only the backbiting of Malphas' court can rival the intense sexual intrigues that go on as his the most experienced seducer's in all of existence compete to draw Andrealphus' eye. The average servitor is driven to extrordinary lengths just to compete... Which is, more or less, just the way Andre wants it. Hmm... A decently dark Andre could be played as bored, sinking to successively greater depravities to satisfy his jaded palate... -ALD ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 00:28:46 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> In Nomine vs. WoD [ I think there's a lot bigger conceptual jumps to be made than just the rules. IN Storyteller rules would actually be fairly easy to cobble together; seeing as though I dislike the canon IN system mildly and *loathe* GURPs, I've thought about running IN using Storyteller, Champions and a few other systems. It's work, sure, but it's not _really hard_ to do. Your biggest hurdle with come in combining the settings, not the rules. Thanks for the link to the In Nomine conversion setting. In truth I'm not at all intimidated by combining the settings of the two worlds. Indeed I am actually fairly sure that the two settings are close enough in concept that a Dark In Nomine world can add several important things to the WoD and vice versa. [ First question: do you actually _respect_ the WoD games? I'm not trying to be patronizing by asking, but generally whenever WW stuff is brought up on this list, it seems to be treated with contempt. I'm a WoD player first and foremost, though I'm into and enjoy IN. If I was introduced to IN through a WoD crossover, however, and the angels and their metaphysics trod all over everything else, chances are I'd hate the game -- strongly.] Well frankly I'm glad your not one of my players. I'm primarily a Star Wars player with Mage: The Ascension player and Vampire the Masquerade comming second. Unfortunately In nomine suffers from what I like to refer to as "Changeling the Dreaming" syndrome which is that the games are very well done and intriguing in concept but suffered from a very poor initial run which has created a very loyal fanbase but a stagnant one with usually many players but few groups. I like to resolve my difficulty with games online as I have done so having a 3 year Changeling the Dreaming game on White Wolf's own forums with 7 adventures successfully one (slow forums), and a wonderful PBEM under Charles E. Smith (the game "Turning Point" is mostly talk and speculation rather than combat though I won't complain since the causalties are higher than the Final Trumpet it seems sometimes-a great work). I intend to run In nomine with WoD rules as basically "powerful angelic beings" descending o the Earth and struggling with the fact they can't change the world overtly despite their power. It will be done in WoD format truth be told. [ IN is more spiritual than the WoD? The game certainly has it's strong points, but I've never seen it's treatment of spirituality as one of them, particulairly in contrast to Werewolf or Wraith.] AHHHH do not speaketh those names! I won't trash the WoD as they are my favorite games (after In Nomine) but the thought of Werewolf and Wraith being...ugh those games gives me headaches just thinking of it. I tried playing a Werewolf spiritual game but found my players were far too interested in playing the hack'n'slash primordial aspect to do anything overt so I finally switched over to mage where it worked much better. Attempts also to fit human deities into it failed abysmally as my players considered such things weak and abysmal instead of part of the Umbra and Gaia's people... It was a great game with good roleplaying but a total miscommunication that soured me on Werewolf. Wraith just wasn't what I wanted in concept. Unfortunately for all of it's beuatiful alien setting it drove home why people don't really enjoy the Afterlife of the Damned....there wasn't really much conflict between the physical world and the mortal realm because of the Shroud and the immense restrictions on interaction. I also felt the Shadowlands were too much of a direct departure from Ghosts of Myth. In truth In Nomine has always seemed to me a spirituality that was superior in WoD because it was able to acturaly tackle the Christianity/Islam/Hell aspect without chickening out as the WoD seems to so routeinly do so save in Vampire: The Masquerade and Dark Ages. It actually took the step of examining Demonic and Angelic psyches and what Heaven/Hell is actually like.... One of my favorite scenes in a game was where the soul of a player was judged by Kronos vs. Yves after death as his Destinty and Fate were weighed...the angel got a rare view of what truly goes on....it was a magnificent experience. But different strokes/folks [ This is *so* not the way to begin a crossover, IMO. I understand your reasoning, here; in mythology angels are indeed terrifyingly powerful entities. But very little of that aspect seems to have transferred over into canon IN, so why put it into WoD-IN?] Perhaps you should read what I wrote as rules, A Angel is no more powerful and in a way significantly less so than the average werewolf. The fact an Angel has a 12 intelligence (more intelligent than an Antedeluvian) and 300,000 years of experience is what seperates him from the other supernaturals of the WoD and the STRUGGLE aspect is that he is powerless really to wield this knwoeldge because he lacks the power and perhaps will to do so. * Incarna and Superiors Honestly I intend to do the exact opposite and doing what you suggest would completely destroy the mood of what I'm trying to intend. This is meant to be a multi-phase project but the answer to the game is that the Players unlike other beings in the WoD are privy to the mysteries of the supernatural which are wide open to them and the truths laid before them.... The "clicher" is this Golcondan revelation offers no real comfort. An Angel can still and often summon his superior to the Earthly realms because quite simply...that's what angels do....but unlike sorcerors who can draw demons into the world like Nephandus, most Demons and Angels require their Superiors to enter into the physical world and even then are limited in form and power. In my WoD/In nomine Hell is HORRIBLE and every Demon wnats to get to the Earth that can really. Incarna are ethereals of immense and similar power as intended....but more on that. * The Umbra/Shadowlands Again your ideas really don't reflect the mood of the Game I'm envisioning. An Angels natural home is the Spirit plane and it seems to me perfectly natural for a game that a spirit of a dead man might be spoken to by a Angel once he forms up from his corpse (I like the idea a spirit who achieves/fails both his fate and destiny instead of reincarnating is made into a wraith for WoD In Nomine) with the angel leading them down to the Shadowlands to a place of safety or berating them as the fools they are. The Ethereal Marches are simply IMHO the Umbra/Dreaming as the Celestials term them. An angel is still a very powerful creature in these places but a Incarna (god) and Celestine (Patriarch God) have created their realms as to make themselves invunerable and godlike in their place.... Also angels are severely outnumbered here with the dead resenting the beatiffic and crying out for punishment/Deliverance as angels can do nothing or wanting revenge for the excesses of their "Divine Religeon". I actually used In Nomine as the basis for my Mage game and it worked spectacularly.... The Mages had to serve as defense before the "Court of the High Umbra" of mage where Thor, Athena, Set etc had all banned together with the causalties of the Purity crusade and made it judgement that any celestials found by their minions would be put to death. The Weaver, Wyld, and Wyrm became primal Ethereals but powerful ones that may be known are simply too powerful to destroy...Uriel's Crusade came too little...too late (in WoD: In Nomine the Purity Crusade was a last ditch effort to destroy all the supernaturals in In Nomine with the creation of the Inquisition and protect humanity from the comming apoclypse...despite Uriels best efforts to eradicate all it failed utterly) * Heaven and Hell Well as the Ethereals believe but I'm keeping them as exactly as In Nomine describes with a darker bent...Heaven is a solitary lonely place where the saints pray in vain for the righteous and sinner below on Earth.....Hell is overflowing. * Beleth and Blandine I was actually thinking of this and Dreams and Nightmares described "Dream globes" in Dreams and Nightmares...my idea is at the North and South Pole of the NEar Dreaming/Umbra there are too rising towers which ascend through all the lands but are impregnanble to werewolves and other dwellers of the Land... Beleth and Blandine watch over humanity's dreams nothing more...unable to challenge the powerful beings left. * "Etherials" would be what Celestials call the spirits of Werewolf and Mage. The WoD is a /lot/ friendlier, cosmologically speaking, toward pagan religions than IN is. I'm not so sure about that given that the spirits of Werewolf/Mage are unilaterally not the type of people I would take home with me on a date (save Gaia of course...and Luna...both babes...ooo maybe theres a Beleth/Blandine connection there?). If God is absent in WoD then the "gods" of Mage and elsewise are quivering bickering fools who consider humanity what you should find under your boot on any given sunday. * Lilith this I totally agree with. Lilith is a major figure for making the supernatural situation totally out of control on the World of Darkness...for better or for ill they are now free... Now for the rest of humanity. * Mages/Celestials This I was thinking of and while the Abrahamic Religeons are still the default I'm thinking of doing a little tinkering to make the Celestials also the patrons of the Brahmen Eastern Religeons and eliminating the Ethereals of Hindu altogether because frankly it never made sense to me (especially being a minister in RL) and doing so gives Celestials a distinct lock on religeous thought which neither demphasizes nor overemphasizes their power in the world. I like your interpretation of Sorcery....my guess is Lilith taught humans how to be like Demons....or maybe Vice Versa (Hey what if Lucifer was still an Angel until he met Lilith)? I really enjoy the Cycles of Lilith which give insight if you want to play Lilith as completely delusional. * Awareness/Disturbance That's exactly what I was thinking for mages and Changelings (The Shattering was also caused by Uriel's crusade I think and I intend to up the repellant felt by Changelings for symbols of Uriel's faith) with maybe werewolves able to smell the taint of disturbance around an area... After all that's what "Wyrm"/Weaver taint is all about them to the Gaian Spirit worshipers. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:29:30 +1200 From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: Re: IN> In LARP >Er, the PC's are Archangels? Do you not mean Demon Princes. I cannot see >Archangels doing this sort of thing at the behest of the Lightbringer. Yeah, they are Demon Princes. Not Archangels. The AA thing is a lie! >Assuming I am right, there is a real problem here. The PC Terridian is >central to the action but blind. The other PC's are secondary to the >action and hold all the aces. DP'as are not likely to be happy being >second fiddle to an upstart even if told to sdo so by the >Lightbringer. Apart from which some DP's may want to make use of this >upstart for their own ends and even to want to find ways of revealing what >is really going on. I agree with you entirely. DP's would not really like going along with this. Not every Superior is here. Lilith for example will not be present (I HATE Lilith). The objective here is not standard IN continuity and it certainly is not really involved with the rules and system. The objective is to give one person who plays Terridian a chance to manipulate and connive. The others get to play along and do what they want. >From experience you might be better to let the DP's be more open about >what they are and let the upstart try to convince them of the power of his >word and why he is worthy of it. They still get to vote at the end of the >day, and throughout the game poor Terridian will have to deal with the >internal politics of hell. Who hates whom, who wants to bring down whom, >where the allegances are etc. And, if he can show that the politics is >Hopeless then even if the DP's decide to reject his status the Lightbringer >might intervene. In the meantine the various DP's can be attempting to >stitch up each other, making offers to Terridian, side deals and everything >else that could go on. Yes that is a much better idea. I like that more now that you mention it. Thanks. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 01:09:32 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: IN> Religion in Hell >"William J. Keith" wrote: > >> Oooh, there's a dark thought. Yves has started a few religions in his >> time. Why wouldn't Kronos have gotten in on the act? I'm not talking >> about Anton LaVey, oh no... a much more sinister religion. A quiet one. >> One that tries to be as infernal as the divine ones are divine. Open-eyed >> human beings trying consciously to embrace their Fate and get the rest of >> the world to do so as well. >> >> ... >> > >Are you thinking of something that exists in the real world here, or >something purely fictional? Purely fictional. Take any notions you may personally have of "evil cults." Drop the bombast and the material greed. Add a dash of the line from "Lost in Space": "Lie once, cheat twice. A conscious choice of a philosophy of action." (Or whatever it was.) Add in some Shedim with a thorough grounding in theology, and a couple of fallen Servitors of Yves familiar with the monotheism experiment. As Yves sought to bring mankind to God through revelation and faith, let Kronos seek to lead them away... but with what? "Moral" laws as pseudo-chaotically organized as the Archives? Promises as bitter as mortality? Can you get a human to embrace their Fate for its own sake without the whip or the dollar, without the promise of fame or power? The answer might be closely related to the question which started the War. As for the form and content of the religion -- let your imagination roam over the concepts. I did, briefly, and stopped because the images were frightening me. God, if I was talking about a real religion -- well, in real life I don't think that that religion could exist because of the way humans are wired. Extending that to the IN Universe, Kronos' attempts in his direction would be doomed to fail. But what he'd come up with in the process... >-- > Kish William ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 02:05:21 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: IN> Religion in Hell > but with what? "Moral" laws as pseudo-chaotically organized as the > Archives? Promises as bitter as mortality? Can you get a human to embrace > their Fate for its own sake without the whip or the dollar, without the > promise of fame or power? The answer might be closely related to the > question which started the War. "What you have to consider," [the mechanic] says, "is the possibility that God doesn't like you. Could be, God hates us. This is not the worst thing that can happen." How Tyler saw it was that getting God's attention for being bad was better than getting no attention at all. Maybe because God's hate was better than His indifference. If you could be either God's worst enemy or nothing, which would you choose? We are God's middle children, according to Tyler Durden, with no special place in history and no special attention. Unless we get God's attention, we have no hope of damnation or redemption. Which is worse, hell or nothing? Only if we're caught and punished can we be saved. "Burn the Louvre," the mechanic says, "and wipe your ass with the Mona Lisa. This way at least, God would know our names." The lower you fall, the higher you'll fly. The farther you run, the more God wants you back. "If the prodigal son never left home," the mechanic says, "the fatted calf would still be alive." -- _Fight Club_, Chuck Palahniuk Says it all, eh? - -- Casca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:14:01 +0100 From: Omentide Subject: IN> WoD / IN vignette Below is a vignette for a Gurps Vampire game with heavy In Nomine influence. Ashley. - ------------------------------------------- For the Bright Lady a GURPS scenario for Vampire My name is Lisa, I am Clan Brujah. My sire is, or should I say my Sire was, Prince of Leeds. I was due to be elected onto the Primogen, or at the very least I was in with a damn good chance. Everyone who is anyone was gathered in Elysium, and anyone else who might have event the slightest interest in politics. OK, so that means pretty much every Kindred in Leeds and a few from other places. To be honest, life for the Kindred was good, my Sire, Arthur a remarkable diplomat. Kindred politics had become a game of sparring. Relations between the various Clans were pretty good, disputes mostly settled by diplomacy. We had few major worries. Being at the top of the food chain and well away from the ravages of the Garou, our life was more than comfortable. Well, as I said, life was comfortable. Now I am Prince of Leeds. I am Prince of nothing. Let me explain. Everyone was gathered in Elysium, these four guys walked in, or should I say, three guys and a chick, and not Kindred. Before anyone could react Arthur became a ball of fire so bright he burned like the sun. We attacked the intruders, we threw everything we had at them. We filled them full of lead. Nothing stopped them. They burned everything, became creatures of blazing fire beyond anything I have witnessed the Tremere capable of. I am not sure how I escaped, there was this huge explosion and then darkness. Maybe they left me for finally dead. Fortunately I regained my senses before dawn and gained shelter. The Nosferatu found me, burnt and wounded, thirsty. Or should I say the few remaining Nosferatu found me. Like me the Nosferatu have no idea what manner of creature dared to attack Elysium. They suspect the Tremere or Mages. I guess they are probably right, but I have never seen Tremere capable of such things. There is a score to settle, but right now simply finding out who dared the affront, where they are, and what weaknesses they have is sufficient. Revenge may take a little while longer. The Prince is gone, now I am Prince. The Primogen is gone, Elysium destroyed. Everyone is gone apart from a few Nosferatu and some Neonates. I will rebuild, but for now I need information. I remember four words one of them spoke before all hell erupted upon us. The Neonates will discover what those words mean, will track down any clues. Oh, Yes and those words.... "For the bright lady" Those words echo in my mind, I suspect they will never go away. We, the Kindred, Lords of the Night have an enemy. We, the hunters have become the hunted. I am Clan Brujah, I will show no fear, but those words burn my mind like fire. "For the bright lady". - ------------------------------------------------ Ashley and Hilary omentide.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:05:18 +0100 From: Omentide Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine vs. WoD I have been working in In Nomine WoD games for some time. Mostly playing around with the concepts trying to get them to fit, and the changes this potentially makes in the relationships between various groups or how they ally with the new additions. For instance: Do some within Hell link up with the Kindred who are afterall damned? How does certain elements in Heaven regard Mages? Might they be seen by some as sorcerers? What allegiances are there between Heaven and the Garou? Jordi, Novalis. At the same time how might the Black Furies react to a patriarch. How does the Ubmra equate to the Ethereal realm (Marches)? What effect does this have on Blandine and Beleth? Many other WoD creatures fit pretty well, Changelings = Ethereals. Wraiths = souls who refuse to 'go to the light'. Mummy???? Not read it yet. Conversely does allowing Heaven or Hell to know of Vampires or Garou constitute breaking the Masquerade or veil? If not, why not? Unless Angels and Demons accept a similar code of secretiveness then it probably does constitute a break. How does the concept of Humanity from VtM fit. What about Discord and Dissonance? How do you fit the Technocracy into the picture? I have tended to think on lines of Wyrm = Hell. Weaver = Heaven, interesting since the weaver is mad and so is Gabriel. Taking GURPS (as an example) a starting level Angel is vastly more powerful than any starting level WoD creature, including the Garou. This is not in itself a problem, it just means an angel can kick. Angels and demons tend to be solitary or at best work with very small groups. A concerted effort by a group of Vampires could probably take a celestial down (or at the very least the Corporeal Vessel). A pack of Garou remain a frightening thing but in all probability will not attack unless Wyrm taint is evident - should prevent them attacking angels. Just thoughts.... Ashley. Ashley and Hilary omentide.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 03:21:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> How to seduce your Archangel/demon prince - --- Anthony Damiani wrote: > Hmm... A decently dark Andre could be > played as bored, sinking to > successively greater depravities to satisfy his > jaded palate... Yup. OTOH, a _Bright_ Andre could be played as someone's who finally - finally - started to get his kinks out of his system, and is now beginning to wonder what to do now... Heck, for a *Backwards* IN Andre just make him the equivalent of a seventeen year old guy with a real difficulty in learning how to say no. _That's_ a interpretation you don't see very often, I fancy. :) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 06/05/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:40:26 -0400 From: Jason Schneiderman Subject: Re: IN> How to seduce your Archangel/demon prince >Heck, for a *Backwards* IN Andre just make him the >equivalent of a seventeen year old guy with a real >difficulty in learning how to say no. _That's_ a >interpretation you don't see very often, I fancy. :) You may have to give me a hand with "seventeen year old guy." The words that come to mind when you say such are "fumbling" and "macho" - neither of which I can see applying to Andrealphus, especially in a Backwards game. It'd be like a craven, snivelling Laurence in a Forwards game - not incorrect, but decidedly wrong. Know what I mean? * * * * * Jason Schneiderman jadasc@ma.ultranet.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:23:09 -0400 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: IN> The Partition Those of you who are fans of older Warner Brothers cartoons might recognize this... Servitors of Flowers are the nicest angels anyone ever meets. They are always patient and kind even to demons. They get sent on missions that need a more diplomatic touch or when they are required to make things less bloody. But let's face it; everyone has their breaking point. There comes a time when you have to stop being nice and smack someone around. For angels of Flowers it's not that easy for them. They have to set the example for peaceful resolutions of conflict and don't wish anyone to see them snap. Needless to say, The Partition was a blessing and a half. The Partition (No one's really come up with a better name) folds up to a 3 inch square for easy transport. When it's unfolded, it expands to seven feet high by four feet wide. It appears as a simple white colored wall that stands firmly wherever it's set down on. The purpose of The Partition is quite simple. When it's unfolded and the angel takes a demon behind it, neither can be seen and no disturbance to The Symphony can be heard. Usually, the most that can be heard is the sound of pummeling and yelps of pain. People have noticed that the angel seems amiable once again, while the demon that went behind it is rather bruised. Jean refuses to talk to anyone about how these are made, Novalis sighs and realizes that sometimes her people need to smack some fool demon around and accepts it's use and Vapula has yet to reverse engineer it. And this artifact has developed quite a reputation amongst demons. They know when a Flower Child starts unfolding that screen, they better start acting nice or learn what their pain threshold is. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:22:00 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> "And I Feel Fine" - Part 7: Locusts "The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss. When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss. And out of the smoke locusts came down upon the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth. They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads. They were not given power to kill them, but only to torture them for five months. And the agony they suffered was like that of the sting of a scorpion when it strikes a man. During those days men will seek death, but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them. The locusts looked like horses prepared for battle. On their heads they wore something like crowns of gold, and their faces resembled human faces. Their hair was like women's hair, and their teeth were like lions' teeth. They had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was like the thundering of many horses and chariots rushing into battle. They had tails and stings like scorpions, and in their tails they had power to torment people for five months. They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek, Apollyon." -- Revelation 9:1-11 * * * * * * * (Lacking any canonical name for it, I recommend the Grigori Archangel of Song be called "Semyaza," after the leader of the Grigori in the Book of Enoch. As Archangel of the Abyss, its name is either Abaddon or Apollyon, according to Revelation 9:11. I recommend "Apollyon" to avoid confusion with Abaddon as Saminga's domain in Hell. Thus this Archangel would be referred to as Semyaza, Semyaza Apolyyon, or Apollyon, depending on the Word to be emphasized.) * * * * * * * It stands on the topmost parapet of a tower. It looks like a young woman in an elaborately embroidered grey gown, it but is no such thing. Blandine raises her head, appearing to listen for a moment, then says, "Come." A figure appears next to her. It looks like a young man made of liquid gold, seven feet tall, but it is no such thing. He is robed in black. Under one arm, he holds a circular harp, resembling a dreamcatcher. "Welcome, Semyaza, Song," says the Archangel of Dream. She surveys the churning sunset/sunrise/rainbow clouds of the Vale, not looking at him, though the shape of his instrument is not lost on her. "What brings you here?" "My lady, I come with a request. A large one." "Name it." "I am also Archangel of the Abyss, and now is the time when I must open that Abyss. But the manner of that opening is mine to determine. I have an idea, but I need your leave to put it into action." He gestures at the open air before them and a locust appears -- horse-sized, human-faced, scorpion-tailed. "I would send my angels, in this form, into the dreams of Therrian's servants. There, they would rob them of rest and afflict them with terror, pain, the memories of recents sins, and, it may be, guilt." "So that they cry for death and do not find it?" Blandine asks. "I am not in the business of fomenting nightmares, Apollyon." "I know. But I am." "What of she whose Word is Nightmare?" Apollyon smiles. "Believe me, I do not stand in *her* tower, asking permission." Blandine shakes her head. "I mean, she will retaliate. You are escalating the War, and in my realm." "Indeed. I mean to. Call on Zadkiel for help, then, to defend your dreamers. And Michael, Laurence, Gabriel, Janus. I think they will be more than willing." "And Beleth will call on Baal, Vapula, Valefor, and so on. More escalation." Apollyon nods. "Indeed. If we could, we would draw every demon out of Hell and into the Marches. Not that we expect Lucifer to leave his house so emptied. But as much as we can." "A feint? Is this some plan you have hatched with Michael?" "I am even now discussing it with him. But may we have your permission?" Blandine stands on her tower. But she also sits in the Seraphim Council. There, she looks over at Apollyon, who is quietly listening to Marc addressing the Council on logistical matters. Michael does the same ... here, but doubtless sits talking with Apollyon in the Groves. Blandine also stands before the Throne, robed in white, crowned with gold -- robed in love, crowned with glory. She gazes into the Light from the Throne. It gives no message, but it clears her thinking. It is too late to protect the old. Let the new come. Therein lies hope. "Go ahead. But a favor in return, Semyaza. I would hear you sing." * * * * * * * It is over three years since Belial died and the Upper Heavens opened. The Saints, Grigori, and Grigorids have all been rallied. The 144,000 are nearly completed. On Earth, the Four Horsemen rampage. Therrian's imperial UN reaches out from Rome, controlling all the major cities and Therrian reigns, in splendor and adulation hyped by an ecstatically busy Nybbas. Baal's forces seek to gain territory for Therrian -- the smaller cities, towns, farmlands; Michael's forces resist. Mammon and Valefor loot the world for Therrian; Marc and Janus resist. Saminga sends zombie troops and zombie labor everywhere; it's getting hard to keep them secret; Death angels lead attacks on them more and more openly. Then the dreams start. Singly and in swarms, locusts appear over and over in the dreams of Therrian's human servants. They bring horribly vivid sensations of pain, and memories of the dreamer's latest sins. They leave exhaustion always, psychosomatic illness often. Locusts sometimes haunt the dreams of Therrian's foes, too, but there they generally attack figures that threaten the dreamer, driving them away. Heroic monsters. And what explanation can Therrian give for this plague of dreams, without bringing in the supernatural and revealing the War? It's depressingly easy: giant locusts have appeared all over the world, the way UFOs used to do, only far more frequently. Most often, they are seen at a distance, and always fleetingly. Sometimes, they appear next to a particularly noxious person -- a noxious person left writhing in pain and incapacitated for weeks afterward. Therrian blames the resistance forces, without specifics. Multiple rumors claim the resistance (or Therrian's own labs) have brewed up monstrous robot vehicles, or transgenic horrors, or mind-addling technologies. But plenty of people have read Revelation, and more accurate rumors circulate, too. The locusts appear on Earth because Apollyon has been handing them out as bizarre vessels. The Archangel of the Abyss has given one to every Grigori in existence, and to all its servitors of other choirs, and to any other angel or saint that asks for one. So far, these heavenly monsters have seldom appeared on Earth -- not NEVER, but SELDOM. Mostly, they appear in dreams. * * * * * * * Roleplaying seed: Dream Wars No matter what Word they serve, PCs may now be invited to go fight in the Marches. They may be attacking or defending individual dreamscapes. Heavenly PCs should use the locust form as their default self-image. They may be playing hide-and-seek Ethereal combat with small enemy groups in random surreal landscapes of the Marches, especially if they have been sent ahead as scouts. Such things can be spiced up with appropriate artifacts and encounters with local Ethereals. They may be swept up in mass combat in the Marches. Besides the obvious scenes of mass melee, there is the challenge of *escaping* the battle, if and when retreat is sounded, and everyone in the party is down to their last few Mind Hits, and you have one or two points of Essence, at most, among the lot of you. The pagan pantheons and other Ethereal communities are bound to get involved, whether they want to or not. PCs can be sent as diplomats, asking for allies or negotiating passage through to other realms. Of course, some Ethereal realms are solidly aligned with Beleth. But how solidly, and can that be changed, now that unprecedented masses of angels are invading the Marches? Or PCs can infiltrate as spies, scouts, and saboteurs. Even totally un-military PCs can arrive openly as missionaries (from either side) to stir up appropriate feeling among the masses -- the dreamshades and minor myth figures of a given realm. * * * * * * * Roleplaying seed: Bugging the Beast Ever want to play an avenging angel in the form of a giant grasshopper? Sure you have! *Really* leap tall buildings in a single bound as you hop and fly through the streets of Therrian's "recovery centers," dealing out terror and agonizing stings to demons and hellsworn. Then switch back to your old vessel and lay low. Or buzz out of town and join a swarm of buddies, to attack a slave labor camp, military outpost, or zombie factory. Of course, every demon in Hell will be looking to Vapula for insecticide. And your locust vessel is by no means invulnerable. And, when you go celestial and vanish, you *may* find some recently-stung Calabim have just done the same thing, and are waiting for you. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 15:01:57 From: "Kish Moore" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine vs. WoD <> Now that surprises me. Relative to humans in each world, the angel is not more powerful than the Garou in the two original games. How many points are starting angel characters usually created with in GURPS In Nomine? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:47:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: IN> Religion in Hell - --- Kish wrote: > > Oooh, there's a dark thought. Yves has started a few > religions in his > > time. Why wouldn't Kronos have gotten in on the act? > I'm not talking > > about Anton LaVey, oh no... a much more sinister > religion. A quiet one. > > One that tries to be as infernal as the divine ones are > divine. Open-eyed > > human beings trying consciously to embrace their Fate > and get the rest of the world to do so as well. You mean Microsoft? 0;> ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Fall down seven times, get up eight." - -- Japanese proverb __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:52:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Screamers (nope, not that at all) - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > Screamers That tidal wave you see approaching is just the drool from all the Ofanim who've seen these things. You can thank me later for that image. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Fall down seven times, get up eight." - -- Japanese proverb __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 11:02:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> How to seduce your Archangel/demon prince - --- Jason Schneiderman wrote: > You may have to give me a hand with "seventeen year old > guy." The words > that come to mind when you say such are "fumbling" and > "macho" "Fumbling" is definitely right, but "macho" -- not necessarily. Depends on the 17-year-old's level of confidence. I can see Andre in backwards IN as being a fundamentally insecure being. Shoot, he's not far from that in canon; SOMETHING has to drive all that manipulativeness. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Fall down seven times, get up eight." - -- Japanese proverb __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2294 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.