From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Jul 11 06:32:23 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA15171 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 06:32:21 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id GAA05095 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 06:32:19 -0500 Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 06:32:19 -0500 Message-Id: <200107111132.GAA05095@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2296 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, July 11 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2296 In this digest: IN> High statistics....(was WoD vs. In Nomine) IN> Re: In Nomine T-shirts RE: IN> WoD / IN vignette Re: IN> Re: In Nomine T-shirts IN> Re: IN/WoD Re: IN> WoD / IN vignette Re: IN> In Nomine vs. WoD Re: Fwd: RE: IN> World of Darkness/In Nomine crossover pt 1 Re: Fwd: RE: IN> World of Darkness/In Nomine crossover pt 1 Re: IN> T-Shirt Updates... RE: IN> WoD / IN vignette Re: IN> WoD / IN vignette Re: IN> WoD / IN vignette Re: IN> WoD / IN vignette IN> This is harder than it looks... Re: IN> WoD / IN vignette Re: IN> WoD / IN vignette Re: Fwd: RE: IN> World of Darkness/In Nomine crossover pt 1 Re: IN> This is harder than it looks... RE: IN> WoD / IN vignette RE: IN> WoD / IN vignette RE: IN> WoD / IN vignette Re: IN> WoD / IN vignette RE: IN> WoD / IN vignette RE: IN> WoD / IN vignette RE: IN> WoD / IN vignette Re: Fwd: RE: IN> World of Darkness/In Nomine crossover pt 1 Re: IN> Ch-ch-ch-changes. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 20:27:17 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> High statistics....(was WoD vs. In Nomine) >Except that a huge amount of people in WoD have a 5 in at least one stat, >whereas virtually no human has a 10 in In Nomine. Tis true enough but however lots of humans in canon I imagine have an average as a 2 in their intelligence, precision etc skills. It's sort of like (100 IQ translates as a 2 in In Nomine terms-few people have it in every area but quite a few overall in when intelligence is averaged out) which the way I've always played it and the same is done for Vampire the Masquerade. It's a home rule preference. I never really especially liked In Nomine's take on statistics...it's chart just and I quote andre "Do it for me". While the chart is fairly clear forward I use a homebrewed (I hope none of the Powers that Be are offended by all this discussion of Home rules, rival game comapnies, etc) I use this chart instead. (warning this makes soldiers and celestials much more powerful) 1. Miserable (As a human you are pathetically weak, likely illiterate, or a complete butterfingers...as a celestial someone has seriously min/maxed you as the Hulk or giant head with small body) 2. Average (Humans who posess this are those who aren't exceptionally gifted but can handle the day to day tasks of life without embarassing themselves....they are C students, wreck only when they meet other bad drivers, and arn't complete snivelling weaklings when the pressure is composed but break easily enough) 3. Above Average (The B student with occasional As and equal Number Cs, the person who plays a little football well after class and might be on a small high school's team, these people show the first signs of "strong" personality characteristics) 4. Exceptional (The honor roll student, the best player on a small team or a good player on a large team, the person who has the nerve to stand up to the teacher in class on issues, and in general the people whom for whatever reason you remember as talented) 5. Gifted (The best player on a large football team...might be able to go pro, the straight A student, the person whose will is unbreakable and stubborn as Hell...could probably survive combat without too much mental damage, the person who can spot a fly from across the room) 6. Genius (These people are what mankind terms prodigies and while not legendary a person with this high in a skill can become a nuclear physicist, astronaut, rockstar, statesman or president...the last in a bad year or if they're parent was, Pro players of the best crop this year) 7. Legend (Names that will live if not forever than for an extremely long time. Vladimir Lenin, Richard the Lion Heart, Jimmi Hendrix, Picasso, the Beetles, and Michael Jordon make these people world heroes in their own time or spoken of greatly after death) 8. Deitiffic (Mortals who acquire this level in an ability will be immortalized for ages to come such as the mind of Einstein, the Precision of Leonardo Davinchi, the strength of Samson, and the will to endure the labors and horrors of Odysseus or Moses) 9. Celestial (At this point a human beings mind can no longer relate to the complexities and depth of a celestial with this powerful of precision/mind/will. The power to not despair after a hundred years of torture, the power to lift cars and dodge bullets, and a mind which works as fast a super computer or three constantly is the average power of such a being) 10. Word Bound (a celestial who wishes a word should do well to cultivate the overiding trait of their word to this level or he will never be considered. A man with this will might be willing to stay in the same spot or suffer the ministrations of demons for a thousand years without breaking, Their mind can grasp the interelated thoughts of ten thousand humans or more in an instant if they have access to such information, and can run as fast as a cheetah or speeding car) 11. Superbeing (Celestials with this type of will/intellect/precision/perception are often cultivated for the higher ranks such as Counts, Dukes, or Advisors to their Superiors. A celestial with physical skills of 11 can kill entire armies of two thousand and more and leap acres, they can predict the trends in society to a level that is precognative up to fifty years and more with frightening accuracy, and design masterworks that humans could never concieve of save if they worked laboraously for ten thousand years) 12. He who is like God (These are the upper limits of Celestial Abilities and the names of the Angels with such abilities are already well known in Heaven (and Hell). Ophis the Liar with the will to be the first to officially defy God and who would be willing to wait ten/twenty/fifty billion years and forever to avoid saying he's sorry to God, Moloch the Destroyer whose strength could kill squadrons of Malakim and lay waste to armies of thirty thousand men, Sophia the Wise whose perception made her Raphael's most valued consort and orrator and whom could instally tell a person's past, present, and likely future up to their deaths by looking at them, and in general peoples named with a "The" after them and who are extremely intimidating beinsg to celestials.) >Therefore, a Celestial with 6 in WoD is a lot weaker in comparison with most >people then one with 12 in In Nomine. Something to remember. Maybe.... Just my .02 - -Charlie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:23:01 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re: In Nomine T-shirts > From: Michael Walton > Subject: Re: IN> T-Shirt Updates... > > - --- "William J. Keith" wrote: >> Hmm... 72 T-shirts.... I dunno if we'll get that many >> orders purely from >> people speaking up on the list, and I have no idea how >> accurate my personal >> opinion is that they'd sell like hotcakes at cons and >> elsewhere. > > Let me query the IN LARPers in my area -- that's got to > be good for a dozen or so. I'll also be spreading the word down here, although the pitiful value of the OZ dollar at the moment is going to hurt. Still, I know a few people who are likely to be interested. Will need to know what they're likely to cost and what design/motto is most popular. (If they're being done in house, may I suggest that the burning feather feature prominently? It's easily the finest, most recognisable In Nomine image). >> If >> you *are* thinking about doing a design or two >> in-house, the one I >> definitely want is still "I'm the / ANGEL / the / >> DEVIL / warned you >> about", with "The 8th Virtue / Malakim Choir Glyph >> / Malakite >> Convention 2001" on the back. > > I want this one, too. Either black on white or white > on black: red on black would have a nice feel to it, > but then there's a visibility option... > > Moe This one would be nice - I'd personally prefer black on white. James. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 18:40:08 -0600 From: "Julian Mensch" Subject: RE: IN> WoD / IN vignette << In fact, that's my advice to anybody planning to run such a crossover: TURN DOWN NOVALIS ABOUT FIVE NOTCHES. As stands, she and hers would go through your average Kindred/Garou like a hot knife through hotter butter... :) >> I'm at a loss to understand how Novalis poses a threat to the WoD critters. Although, I must admit, the thought of a heavily-Novalintine influenced WoD/IN crossover has much amusement potential. One of the things I like the most about IN is that it can be Dark or Bright. There are times I really wish the WoD (absent Changeling) had a "Bright" setting the way IN does. Something more like Buffy and Angel in tone than Dracula. That would be cool... - -- Julian Mensch ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 21:07:52 -0400 From: "S.D." Subject: Re: IN> Re: In Nomine T-shirts >> - --- "William J. Keith" wrote: >>> Hmm... 72 T-shirts.... I dunno if we'll get that many >>> orders purely from >>> people speaking up on the list, and I have no idea how >>> accurate my personal >>> opinion is that they'd sell like hotcakes at cons and >>> elsewhere. >> >> Let me query the IN LARPers in my area -- that's got to >> be good for a dozen or so. >I'll also be spreading the word down here, although the pitiful value of the >OZ dollar at the moment is going to hurt. Still, I know a few people who are >likely to be interested. Will need to know what they're likely to cost and >what design/motto is most popular. (If they're being done in house, may I >suggest that the burning feather feature prominently? It's easily the >finest, most recognisable In Nomine image). I know I'll probably pick up at least one, and I might be able to find people after more...Especially since so many people liked the designs for my Choir/Band window clings. >>> If >>> you *are* thinking about doing a design or two >>> in-house, the one I >>> definitely want is still "I'm the / ANGEL / the / >>> DEVIL / warned you >>> about", with "The 8th Virtue / Malakim Choir Glyph >>> / Malakite >>> Convention 2001" on the back. >> >> I want this one, too. Either black on white or white >> on black: red on black would have a nice feel to it, >> but then there's a visibility option... >> >> Moe >This one would be nice - I'd personally prefer black on white. I like red on black, but I like red and black *everything*. ^^ And while I'm at it, here's a couple of the slogans/designs I particularly liked or came up with... *** "Practice Random Acts of Kindness and Senseless Violence" (Circle of choir-symbols on a pocket or the front, flaming feather in the center; large text in the IN font across the back) "In Nomine - Goodness has nothing to do with it." (Put the core rules picture on the front and this on the back? Or the core book pic on the front and do the back with the text from the back of the book...) Malakim - Paladins in Black Leather MALAKIM: Honor. Integrity. And bigass guns. (Malakim choir symbol on the sleeves/pocket, Malakite picture on the front or back, text on the other side with the flaming feather below it?) I'm Only Renegade if They Catch Me Asmodeus: "Shall we play a Game?" (The pic by Azzie's core writeup, in color, on the front; Asmodeus' sigil if it's been done on the back, below the text - if not, IN feather.) Lilith: "What's it Worth to You?" "How much do you Need to know?" (No clue, other than Bright and Free Lilim symbols somewhere on it.) Saminga: "First you die. Then it gets worse." Janus: "...and mayhem ensues." Jean: "Let there be Light." "I sing the body electric." (Well...I *liked* the end paragraph of 'Consider Lightning'. ^_^;; ) ~S.D. Ryukage http://fly.to/sd_nexus ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ But hope is as fragile as a rose... 'Dragons of Winter Night' (Yeah. Let me introduce you to my friends the Malakim of Flowers and Dreams... ^^) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 21:42:07 -0700 From: Anthony Damiani Subject: IN> Re: IN/WoD You know, it seems to me that the key decision in an In Nomine/WoD port is the question of which game's ethos is going to be predominant> Because, essentially, In Nomine /could/ in many ways be a WoD game-- a group of supernatural beings fighting a secret war behind the scenes of the modern world, overlayed with various spiritual themes. Except that it's completely different; IN, despite its areas of Cannon Doubt and Uncertainty is a /much/ less relativistic game: there is (probably) an objective truth, and (probably) a single monothiestic deity. It's also a much lighter game, and doesn't take it self as seriously (the angst! Oh the angst!). To meld it with the other games, you /really/ have to make a decision about what ideology is going to be dominant. Arguments about respecting both game lines aside, it's much more difficult to forge a true marriage of equal systems here than it is to take the elements from one and placing it in the other. The example about toning down Novalis is a perfect example; but the other solution is to brighten the undead up a little bit. Ultimately, what do you want the game to /feel/ like? That said, IN does mesh with Changeling with virtually no modification, just substitute the phrase 'Dreaming' for Marches and 'Purity Crusade' for 'Shattering,' and you're set with a new group of Ethereals. Actually played a mixed game once where Eli had given a newly fledged malakim to a group of PC Fae to look after (did it make sense? Well, no, but it /was/ Eli...) As for stats, obviously, there is not true translation, it's going to depend on how powerful you want the groups to be relative to eachother. Say, doesn't the Book of Nod call the allergy to sunlight "Uriel's Curse"? -ALD ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 19:30:17 -0700 From: Kish Subject: Re: IN> WoD / IN vignette Julian Mensch wrote: > > << > In fact, that's my advice to anybody planning to run > such a crossover: TURN DOWN NOVALIS ABOUT FIVE > NOTCHES. As stands, she and hers would go through > your average Kindred/Garou like a hot knife through > hotter butter... :) > >> > > I'm at a loss to understand how Novalis poses a > threat to the WoD critters. I believe that comes from reading the Seraph of Flowers attunement as not affecting the user. - -- Kish ICQ# 28085879 AIM Kish K M ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 19:37:48 -0700 From: Kish Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine vs. WoD Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > I forget what the GURPS W:TA suggested point totals for character creation > were. Somewhere in the 400's? 450. More than a mage, much more than a vampire. And for some wonky reason, being a mage or werewolf is a bigger Secret than being a vampire, but never mind. > I think that's around the range for GIN > celestials. Thanks. - -- Kish ICQ# 28085879 AIM Kish K M ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 19:43:55 -0700 From: Kish Subject: Re: Fwd: RE: IN> World of Darkness/In Nomine crossover pt 1 Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > >Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:01:09 -0500 > >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from [ranma ] > >If one looks at the actual stat scale of In Nomine, the upper limit of humans > >is 10, the upper limit of Celestials is only 2 points higher, 12, unless one > >is a Superior. In Storyteller terms, the max for Joe Human is a 5. One could > >thus say that the max stat for Celestials would be a 6. The average Celestial > >would, in theory, have a 6 in all stats in In Nomine, and thus a 3 average > >under Storyteller rules. Yupyup. If I were ever to run an IN-to-WoD crossover, I'd translate celestial stats to half the ratings, round up (except for Will, which I would translate straight to Willpower). That would make an angel or demon with an 11 or 12 in a stat in IN translate as still just above human maximum. - -- Kish ICQ# 28085879 AIM Kish K M ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 20:04:07 -0700 From: Kish Subject: Re: Fwd: RE: IN> World of Darkness/In Nomine crossover pt 1 Bevan Thomas wrote: > > Except that a huge amount of people in WoD have a 5 in at least one stat, No. > whereas virtually no human has a 10 in In Nomine. Virtually no mundane has a 5 in WoD. - -- Kish ICQ# 28085879 AIM Kish K M ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 00:11:53 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> T-Shirt Updates... >--- "William J. Keith" wrote: > > > >> If >> you *are* thinking about doing a design or two >> in-house, the one I >> definitely want is still "I'm the / ANGEL / the / >> DEVIL / warned you >> about", with "The 8th Virtue / Malakim Choir Glyph >> / Malakite >> Convention 2001" on the back. > >I want this one, too. Either black on white or white >on black: red on black would have a nice feel to it, >but then there's a visibility option... > >Moe The color scheme I was thinking was: body of shirt, black (white is so easily dirtied, and black is better on the eyes), "angel" in ice-blue w/shadings (dunno how much more expensive that would make it, simply blue'd be good), "Devil" in, of course, red with flame tints; other text white. William ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 21:29:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: RE: IN> WoD / IN vignette - --- Julian Mensch wrote: > I'm at a loss to understand how Novalis poses a > threat to the WoD critters. Seraphim of Flowers: or, "say goodbye to Mister Frenzy/Rage"*. Unrestricted, so all the Flowerchildren can play ... and then there's the little issue about precisely how 'human' Kindred and Garou are. Hell, Mercurians would be even more potentially disruptive of a VtM campaign than they are in IN: that ability to detect relationships could let them put a serious spoke in most Kindred political manueverings, and if the Council decides to declare Cainites to be equivalent to Nephelim, well... :) Moe *That's how I would treat it if I was GMing, at least - - and then there's the entire issue of "is vampiric feeding a violent activity by default"? Seraphim of Flowers will be _scary_ in the WoD - unless they get toned down. ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 06/05/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 21:39:08 -0700 From: Kish Subject: Re: IN> WoD / IN vignette Maurice Lane wrote: > > --- Julian Mensch wrote: > > > I'm at a loss to understand how Novalis poses a > > threat to the WoD critters. > > Seraphim of Flowers: or, "say goodbye to Mister > Frenzy/Rage"*. Unrestricted, so all the > Flowerchildren can play ... ...but not fight while they're playing. Unless you read it as not applying to the user. - -- Kish ICQ# 28085879 AIM Kish K M ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 21:37:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> WoD / IN vignette - --- Kish wrote: > I believe that comes from reading the Seraph of > Flowers attunement as > not affecting the user. > No, I'm quite aware that the Attunement affects the user: that won't prevent the Seraph from _capturing_ entities and handing them over to, say, Malakim of Divine Fire...* Well, maybe not in that case. It all depends on whether the Seraphim Council decrees that Kindred are official 'humans' or not. :) Moe *There's also a combat application, but that requires the use of a sniper rifle. ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 06/05/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 21:46:17 -0700 From: Kish Subject: Re: IN> WoD / IN vignette Maurice Lane wrote: > > --- Kish wrote: > > > I believe that comes from reading the Seraph of > > Flowers attunement as > > not affecting the user. > > > > No, I'm quite aware that the Attunement affects the > user: that won't prevent the Seraph from _capturing_ > entities and handing them over to, say, Malakim of > Divine Fire...* That all depends on how you define "violent." Was it someone else who had Novalis telling Asmodeus that trying to restrain her Servitors was a form of violence? I have that linked with your name in my head for some reason. - -- Kish ICQ# 28085879 AIM Kish K M ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 21:47:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> This is harder than it looks... ...getting back into the saddle, that is. May be a couple of days before I'm back up to speed. Anyway, tonight's offering is a fictional character, oddly enough: now that I have my complete library available again, I've been rereading old favorites, and well... he's below. Moe "Good Historical Fiction novels, BTW. Go read them" Lane Harry Flashman Saint of the Sword IST War, God help us all Corporeal Forces: 3 Strength: 5 Agility: 7 Ethereal Forces: 3 Intelligence: 5 Precision: 7 Celestial Forces: 2 Will: 7* Perception: 4 *Bought up Vessel: large Caucasian man/3, Charisma +1 Skills: Artistry/5 (Writing), Dodge/3, Emote/4, Fighting/3, Knowledge/4 (intelligence analysis), Languages (many), Large Weapons (Sabre/3, Lance/4), Lying/6 (mastery), Move Silently/3, Ranged Weapons (Pistol/3, rifle/3), Riding/6 (mastery), Savoir-Faire/2, Seduction/6 (mastery), Tactics/2 Songs: Motion (Celestial/6), Shields (All/6, Virtuoso) Attunements: Blessed (It hurts to even _write_ that), Scabbard Disadvantages: Cowardly/2, Lustful/2 (he used to have both of these at higher levels, plus Slothful, but the personal attention of two Archangels is an amazing motivational tool) That man has the luck of the Devil himself, it seems - which is not to say that Flashman has good luck. It's just that there's no neutral switch to it: either things are going very well, or else very badly. Harry hasn't yet worked out which condition applies here. On the one hand, he managed to skip Hell on, frankly, a technicality (his Destiny was achieved on his own, but every single one of the seventy-five occasions where his Fate was met had been inadvertently disrupted by celestial interference). This is a good thing, obviously: Harry has heard about what goes on down there. It might be good for a bit of fun if you were a demon, yourself, but for humans ... well, no need to dwell on the unpleasant, right? That's the good news. The bad news is that the first thing - the very first thing - that Harry Flashman got to see when he walked past a shocked Radueriel was a nastily grinning short, skinny guy with black wings, idly leaning on the largest sword the ... blessed soul ... had ever seen. Said skinny guy politely informed Flashman that he was being volunteered. Right now. Well, nothing new there - but Harry wasn't used to having a boss who could read minds. His next few decades were precisely as painful as anything can actually get in Heaven. Laurence is the sort who believes that there's nothing like good, healthy exercise to promote virtue: Flashman would disagree, but he learned very quickly that the Archangel of the Sword has a whim of steel - and a willingness to assign 500 mile runs at the first hint of whining. The worst part was, of course, that the Archangel just kept smiling the whole time. Flashman has very good instincts about nastiness - he should, considering his earthly habits - and he sourly suspects that Laurence has always wanted to _really_ put a sinner through his paces. The ... blessed soul ... must have seemed like a gift from God Himself. Anyway, after half a century of this, Harry was ready to work for anyone else - except Michael. Seraphim terrify him: those angels can detect lies. Guess what? Actually, being assigned to War wasn't - all that bad. Michael is a sneaky bastard (Harry considers this a compliment, by the way), and he doesn't respond to the least little infraction by assigning ten thousand pushups. In fact, Flashman gets to spend most of his time sitting at a desk reading reports. He has a certain talent for intelligence work, and if he had his way, the ... blessed soul ... would do nothing else for the rest of eternity. Of course, that's not going to happen anytime soon. Every time that there's a particularly tricky problem down on earth that calls out for a poltroon with a keen sense of self-preservation, Michael sends for Flashman. The Archangel of War well knows that Harry is a coward and lecher (although no longer a bully - Laurence has methods for dealing with *that* little character flaw): he just doesn't _care_. Indeed, in some cases both qualities are useful: if nothing else, Hell would never expect that anyone who acts like Harry does could ever be a Saint. He's perfectly safe. Harry's heard this before. It was never true when he was alive - and it isn't true now. Then again, what choice does he have? The other side's worse - and at least this one leaves him alone most of the time. There's even beer and women... Now, for those of you who haven't read George MacDonald Fraser (shame on you, by the way), Harry Flashman is one of those people that you can't help but like ... from very, very far away. He's a coward, a poltroon, a lecher of astonishing ability and zeal, and in life a bully and sluggard ... and those are his good points. He's also an excellent and charismatic storyteller, with a keen eye for human foibles (seeing as he's indulged in most of them, he ought to). While Flashman's riding abilities aren't as important to modern campaigns as they were during his lifetime, his talents at linguistics and mendacity will probably never go out of style. Michael uses him for 'forlorn hope' missions: Harry, as stated above, has the devil's own luck. It's all a matter of making sure that his survival depends on the mission being successful... Cruel? Probably, but really, now: this man should not be in Heaven. He hasn't earned it. Yet. ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 06/05/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 21:58:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> WoD / IN vignette - --- Kish wrote: > Maurice Lane wrote: > That all depends on how you define "violent." Was > it someone else who > had Novalis telling Asmodeus that trying to restrain > her Servitors was a > form of violence? I have that linked with your name > in my head for some > reason. No, but I remember the story. I laughed like a loon when Novy dropped the Song of Bridges on Azzy's head. Classic fanfic moment, I thought. :) More seriously ... ah, heck, it's all a matter of personal interpretation anyway. I just have difficulty reconciling Happy Shiny Angels Holding Hands with the WoD - without the WoD being the ones coming off the worse for wear. Personal quirk, I suppose. Moe Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 06/05/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 01:11:07 -0400 From: Patrick Ley Subject: Re: IN> WoD / IN vignette > > > Julian Mensch wrote > > > One of the things I like the most about IN is that > it can be Dark or Bright. There are times I really > wish the WoD (absent Changeling) had a "Bright" > setting the way IN does. Something more like Buffy > and Angel in tone than Dracula. That would be cool... > > Actually Mage (pre-revised) can be played Bright in a few ways... A: Technocracy Chronicle (they're winning after all) maybe they HAVEN'T Lost their original goals of what's good for all mankind IN crossover: Technology and Lightning fighting for the upper hand. Whose side the Union comes down on could make all the difference B: Standard Tradition Fare only the Tecnocracy is losing ground, people are starting to Believe in something other than cold hard technology IN Crossover: Having learned of the Ascension war IN PC's must decide some issues there's a lot of Ethereal worship in this campaign as well as are theese "Mages" Independant Sorcerers? Other Questions too... More when they come to me (if anyone Cares) Patrick Ley Kyrio of Whatever ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 22:17:12 -0700 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: Fwd: RE: IN> World of Darkness/In Nomine crossover pt 1 Okay, but people usually have higher stats in WoD. For a normal person to have a really high stat in IN, he has to be pretty cruddy in other stats. A non-supernatural person generally has higher stats in WoD. > >No. > >Virtually no mundane has a 5 in WoD. > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 01:22:38 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> This is harder than it looks... Moe, you are one sick bastard. I love it! I used Flashman in an AD&D campaign once -- as a foil to shape up the PCs' behavior. Sure enough, they all ended up despising him and improving their own ways (well, a little). They never did manage to kill him, though... >Attunements: Blessed (It hurts to even _write_ that), Snort. "I could see right away that he was one of those holier-than-thou Johnnies. Oh, I'd seen plenty of them at Rugby, right enough. But old man Arnold was a squeaker compared to this brute. Well, put on your best Sunday-going-to-prayer-meeting face, Flashy, and mind your manners, thought I..." Waitasec. A lot of people in Heaven are going to... really want to welcome Flashman properly. I'm particularly thinking of Arnold, and that Sergeant he "defended" the fort with in the first book... Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 01:28:44 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: RE: IN> WoD / IN vignette - --On Tuesday, July 10, 2001 18:40 -0600 Julian Mensch wrote: > One of the things I like the most about IN is that > it can be Dark or Bright. There are times I really > wish the WoD (absent Changeling) had a "Bright" > setting the way IN does. I've never, ever seen a WoD group where a bright setting would fly. The game system doesn't tend to attract that kind of player. It'd be like ramming a Ravenloft setting down a Toon group's throat. WARNING!!! Do NOT think about "The Mists of Toon" for more than a few seconds at a time. If you hurt yourself, I'm not responsible. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation (Or "Car Wars: The Masquerade" either.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 01:29:18 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: RE: IN> WoD / IN vignette - --On Tuesday, July 10, 2001 15:21 -0600 Julian Mensch wrote: > > This does sound cool... but people rarely play Yves or Kronos' > Servitors. Also, the whole reincarnation/Fate/Destiny thing is > very detatched from Judeo-Christian theology, and that takes away > from the spiritual aspect for me. It doesn't have to be /accurate/, > fully, but if a game about angels and demons really wants to > explore spirituality, it should at least resemble the theology > it's protaganists are drawn from. That always looked from my perspective to be a way to soften the blow...I mean, you don't want the game to be too religious or you turn people off.... I know. Thinking about that makes my head hurt too. It does let you, in all seriousness, tailor the urgency of your players and the stakes in the War. The War is, after all, about mortals, and if they only go around the wheel once, it sort of makes it important not to blow them away with a shrug and a "well, they didn't meet their Fate so they'll be okay next time around." You only get one chance to nudge them towards the light and you'd damned well better get it right, or else. Not all players can handle those stakes, so the option exists to vary the mechanism in your campaign. Full-on mortality with one shot can quickly burn out a player because it makes it so EASY for the angels to lose, in the long run. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("They fight the battles, we just level the field.") ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 01:29:28 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: RE: IN> WoD / IN vignette - --On Tuesday, July 10, 2001 16:30 -0700 Maurice Lane wrote: > > In fact, that's my advice to anybody planning to run > such a crossover: TURN DOWN NOVALIS ABOUT FIVE > NOTCHES. As stands, she and hers would go through > your average Kindred/Garou like a hot knife through > hotter butter... :) > But...but.... Aw, don't be grumpy. Give us a hug.... *ZZZZZZZZZZTTTTTT* Ew. That's not supposed to happen. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("It's a tough love.") ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 01:29:36 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> WoD / IN vignette - --On Tuesday, July 10, 2001 14:50 -0700 Michael Walton wrote: > > --- Omentide wrote: >> For the Bright Lady a GURPS scenario for Vampire > > Niiiiice. And supernatural predators who survive by > drinking the blood of the living must show up like neon > signs on the Seraph of Fire Attunement. > Like looking into a candle with night-vision goggles, I imagine. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("I have this incessant buzzing in my head." "How do you make it stop?" *SNIKT* "Funny you should ask...") ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 00:35:27 -0600 From: "Julian Mensch" Subject: RE: IN> WoD / IN vignette << Actually Mage (pre-revised) can be played Bright in a few ways... >> Oh, yeah; I know. I'm a big Technocracy fan, and am /not/ a big Revised fan. But that's a topic for alt.games.whitewolf, not in_nomine-l. :) - -- Julian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 00:41:55 -0600 From: "Julian Mensch" Subject: RE: IN> WoD / IN vignette << More seriously ... ah, heck, it's all a matter of personal interpretation anyway. I just have difficulty reconciling Happy Shiny Angels Holding Hands with the WoD - without the WoD being the ones coming off the worse for wear. Personal quirk, I suppose. >> It /is/ amusing to watch Novalis run roughshod over the WoD, especially after playing in a few chronicles where the "mood" was a little too oppressive, dreary and cliched. There's a lot of room for pathos and drama in a serious peacemaker character in the WoD as well, though. I've enjoyed playing Children of Gaia, a vampire with Humanity 9 and a Cultist of Ecstacy with Lifesaver*. There's just something about the WoD that makes you want to play a genuine, serious true-blue hero. I guess that it appeals because there's so much out there that /demands/ heroism in the WoD, and unlike, say, Forgotten Realms, you don't get the feeling that someone else will take care of it even if you don't. Mind you, this only works if the Storyteller is not the tired "all good efforts in the WoD must inevitably fail" type. Those Storytellers really irk me no end. :( This reminds me of Nybbas' line from Dark Victory: "Playing Bright in a Dark world is good for the ratings..." Does anyone else get that? That is, when confronted with a Dark setting, inevitably want to play the hero? - -- Julian Mensch * A WoD psychological Flaw Trait basically equivalant to Novy's dissonance condition. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 03:04:08 -0400 From: "S.D." Subject: RE: IN> WoD / IN vignette >Hell, Mercurians would be even more potentially >disruptive of a VtM campaign than they are in IN: that >ability to detect relationships could let them put a >serious spoke in most Kindred political manueverings, >and if the Council decides to declare Cainites to be >equivalent to Nephelim, well... No, the *Nephandi* are Nephilim. ^_^ Hmm. Hang on a sec. [goes to hunt down Mage Player's Guide and look up Marauders] To paraphrase the pertinant, Marauders are embodiments of the Wyld (raw chaos - or perhaps creation) that oppose the Wyrm-as-Nephandi (entropy) at all costs. They are also, one and all, insane. They can also warp reality as they please with no negative side effects - at least, none that affect them. I listed the patrons of the technological groups before. Eli is the patron of the Marauders. So *that's* what he's been doing all this time. And Dominic is worried about heresy. Eli's just arranging to clean up some of Dominic's messes (*coughGrigoricoughNephilimcough*) and have some fun with reality at the same time. No biggie. ^_^ And on that subject, I have a Relic that says Eli was close to Arikel and Malkav (V:tM; Toreador and Malkavian Antediluvians) way-back-when. Same goes for the Fianna Tribe (W:tA) and Eshu Kith (C:tD). ^^ ~S.D. Ryukage http://fly.to/sd_nexus ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Do not go gently into that good night. Rage, rage, against the dying of the light." (And if you know the source of this quote, please, tell me. ^_^;; ) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 22:32:38 -0700 From: Kish Subject: Re: Fwd: RE: IN> World of Darkness/In Nomine crossover pt 1 Bevan Thomas wrote: > > Okay, but people usually have higher stats in WoD. Do you mean PCs? Average people have around average stats--pretty much by definition. It is true, though, that WoD presumes that any PC is pretty superhuman, even a nonmagical PC. - -- Kish ICQ# 28085879 AIM Kish K M ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:30:34 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Ch-ch-ch-changes. >Having recently got back into In Nomine I have decided to get the DPG and >GMG. What other books would people suggest I get after these two. > >Dave >(if this one comes out pink on black it means I have a gremlin). Good Omens!!! (by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaimon, is that right?) Oh, and the Liber Canticorum is a MUST HAVE. I liked The Marches, and I've even used it, too!! The GM screen is a good buy (IMHO). I suggest watching The Propecy, definitely. and then go out and buy GURPS In Nomine, 'cause GURPS have many many more supplements, like Cyberpunk, Old West, Black Ops, and Warehouse 23. Not to mention the conversions of the WoD, like Werewolf and Vampire. Nothing quite like Celestials and Mages mixing it up!!! (Or Malalkim and Werewolves for that matter . . .) - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2296 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.