From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Jul 12 14:05:36 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA31494 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:05:35 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id OAA26492 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:04:33 -0500 Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:04:33 -0500 Message-Id: <200107121904.OAA26492@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2299 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, July 12 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2299 In this digest: Re: IN> "And I Feel Fine" - Part 8: The Keys to the Abyss Re: IN> Hi Re: IN> Printer's Devils Re: IN> "And I Feel Fine" - Part 8: The Keys to the Abyss Re: IN> "And I Feel Fine" - Part 8: The Keys to the Abyss IN> "And I Feel Fine" - Part 9: The Rapture IN> Earl Wajenberg, do you have another e-mail address? Re: IN> Mirror, Mirror ...Again? Re: IN> "And I Feel Fine" - Part 9: The Rapture Re: IN> Fwd: Help for a neophyte? Re: IN> "And I Feel Fine" - Part 9: The Rapture Re: IN> "And I Feel Fine" - Part 9: The Rapture Re: IN> "And I Feel Fine" - Part 9: The Rapture Re: IN> "And I Feel Fine" - Part 9: The Rapture Re: IN> "And I Feel Fine" - Part 9: The Rapture Re: IN> "And I Feel Fine" - Part 9: The Rapture IN> Re:Dark Victory IN> Re: Printer's Devils IN> Re: Seraph of Destiny Re: IN> Printer's Devils IN> Seraphim of Yves and names Re: IN> Re: 8th Virtue shirt Re: IN> Re: 8th Virtue shirt Re: IN> "And I Feel Fine" - Part 9: The Rapture Re: IN> Re: Printer's Devils Re: IN> Mirror, Mirror ...Again? Re: IN> Re:Brightness Re: IN> Seraphim of Yves and names Re: IN> Kochab, Renegade Demon Prince of Constellations IN> 101 Things to do with a prince of Infernal Fire IN> Prophecy Re: IN> 101 Things to do with a prince of Infernal Fire Re: IN> "And I Feel Fine" - Part 9: The Rapture IN> I feel fine... the Habbalah, on the other hand... Re: IN> I feel fine... the Habbalah, on the other hand... Re: IN> "And I Feel Fine" - Part 9: The Rapture Re: IN> "And I Feel Fine" - Part 9: The Rapture Re: IN> "And I Feel Fine" - Part 9: The Rapture IN> An actual scene from a friend's campaign Re: IN> 101 Things to do with a prince of Infernal Fire ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 06:19:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> "And I Feel Fine" - Part 8: The Keys to the Abyss - --- "William J. Keith" wrote: > What Word do you need if you're going to try to go up > against the Being > that not just created, but in a certain sense *is* > Everything? Destruction > isn't nearly wide enough; that's just another physical > process. But to > literally slice off and destroy pieces of Reality, and > ultimately, to > remove the root of existence... that is Negation. All good points. But Negation doesn't have the emotional resonance that Darkness has. Also, there's the factor of imperfect translation from Celestial to English; the Enochian word that we render as "darkness" could very well mean something more like "the ultimate negation of all that is bright and good." ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Fall down seven times, get up eight." - -- Japanese proverb __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 06:26:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Hi - --- A C wrote: > I'm with a little "dilemma" with a player of mine. He > plays a Serpah of > Destiny. In the Angelic Player Guide it seems that Yves' > Seraph is able to > detect true name of Celestial when Seraph touches it. Yup, that's exactly what happens. Yes, this gives Seraphim of Destiny a way to detect demons. That's why demons don't shake hands when they know they're dealing with a Seraph of Destiny. IIRC, the Balseraph Resonance may be able to cover this as well. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Fall down seven times, get up eight." - -- Japanese proverb __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:39:07 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Printer's Devils The subject of the literary life of Hell reminds me of the following passage from "The Screwtape Letters": "I enclose a copy of a pamphlet describing the new House of Correction for Incompetent Tempters. It is profusely illustrated and you will not find a dull page in it." Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:54:50 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> "And I Feel Fine" - Part 8: The Keys to the Abyss Janet Anderson wrote: > Okay, I've really liked them all, but *this* one was the best ... Thank you very much. David Edelstein wrote: > I am enjoying this series very much, but one thing suddenly > occurred to me: it works much better as fanfic than it would as > an actual campaign. > > Why? Because, from a player's viewpoint, it's basically a railroad job > from start to finish. The outcomes are all preordained (literally!), > and while there's ample opportunity to have an effect on a small > scale, winning battles here and there, there really isn't any way > for PCs to impact Armageddon. You're quite right about the "railroading." But this is the way I regard it: Suppose you are playing a strictly historical RPG about World War II. You can't affect the outcome of the war, not and remain historical. You can only affect whether or not you and your buddies come out of the war alive, whole, and/or covered in glory. The roleplaying is, as you said, on the small scale, or at least a smaller scale. The unalterable background history becomes part of the setting. But one can do plenty of good roleplaying and have fun down at the small scale, too. The Tribulation (a la Dispensationalism) is being treated as history, here. It actually allows more wiggle-room than an historical WWII game, since, in the WWII game, you could not be the man who ran the liberation of Paris from the Nazis (except by dreadfully tight scripting), whereas you *could* be the angel who liberated Paris from the forces of the Antichrist. Revelation isn't THAT detailed. I envisioned the PCs as most likely angels -- maybe including Saints and Soldiers of God -- who are sent by their Archangels to a selection of the roleplaying seeds in the campaign, just as soldiers got hustled around in WWII. I admit that the campaign offers far less scope for Infernal PCs, unless the players *like* feeling doomed. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:05:47 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> "And I Feel Fine" - Part 8: The Keys to the Abyss P.S.: I wrote: > in the WWII game, you could not be the man who ran the > liberation of Paris from the Nazis (except by dreadfully tight > scripting), whereas you *could* be the angel who liberated Paris > from the forces of the Antichrist. You could also, of course, be the angel who *tried* to liberate Paris from the Antichrist and tragically failed. The same options and uncertainties apply to even larger chunks of geography and to even smaller, but potentially more poignant, casts of characters. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:11:52 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> "And I Feel Fine" - Part 9: The Rapture "At that time, the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other." - -- Matthew 24:30-31 "For the Son of Man in his day will be like the lightning, which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other. ... I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left." -- Luke 17:24, 34-35 * * * * * * * As soon as the angels return to Heaven, they hear a loud trumpet call from the East. Turning, they see it is Gabriel who blew the call. They also see into the Light. Instantly, wordlessly, each angel knows they must descend to Earth and start bringing people up to Heaven. The exact place, the exact list of people, and the ability to translate them to Heaven all come to the angel in the same moment. This is the Rapture. Dispensationalists -- on whose theory I am basing this scenario -- place the Rapture at one of three dates: the beginning of the Tribulation (the most popular option), the 3.5-year-point in the middle, or the end (the least popular option). I am using the mid-point. In moments, the world loses a third of its adult population. Without bias by creed, people vanish everywhere. Sometimes, they wink out before the eyes of others. Sometimes, there is a moment of ecstatic wonder in their faces. Sometimes they shout in fear at something invisible. Sometimes they run from unseen things for a few paces, before vanishing, or argue with the air a bit, then disappear. Other times, the Raptured are taken by visible agents -- people who appear out of thin air and disappear, taking others with them, even as they question or protest. Or onlookers, those left behind, may glimpse beautiful or surreal shapes that seize folk and vanish with them. Huge percentages of the mentally retarded are Raptured. All the children are gone, or almost all. Hardly any below the age of ten remain. The Rapture-rate for thirteen-year-olds is about twice that for the adult population. For sixteen and older, the rate is the same as for adults. Any unRaptured woman who was pregnant more than three months is suddenly pregnant no longer, and soon delivers an afterbirth. All other pregnancies died stillborn. In minutes, it's over. * * * * * * * Roleplaying seed: The Rapture The GM should land angelic PCs in the midst of the mortals they care most about. The GM also picks which ones are on the pick-up list. The angels arrive in their celestial forms, though they can use their vessels if they want to. But they should *hurry*. They may want to give their passengers a bit of warning -- they may have to *catch* some of them -- but the main thing is to grab them and ascend, then come back for the next. What *do* you say to them? And what do you say to the by-standers whom you *aren't* taking? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:33:42 -0000 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> Earl Wajenberg, do you have another e-mail address? When I try to contact you off-list, I am informed that your system rejects Hotmail. I would love to speak with you further about your wonderful series without boring the list. Do you have another account that isn't so elitist? :) Janet Anderson dorigen@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:37:46 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Mirror, Mirror ...Again? From: "Marc Bowden" > > Personally, I'm waiting for Star Trek: Clear. With a Scientologist Federation? ;) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 07:40:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> "And I Feel Fine" - Part 9: The Rapture - --- Earl Wajenberg wrote: > And what do you say to > the by-standers whom > you *aren't* taking? "Sucks to be you!", no doubt. There's a definite streak of preemptive gloating going through a lot of Tribulation fiction.* :) :) Moe *That slam not aimed at your work, Earl. Keep. It. Coming. BTW, have you thought about doing other cultures' Apopcalypses (Apopcalypsi?) for an encore? ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 06/05/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:43:13 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: Help for a neophyte? From: "Michael Walton" > > There are also a number > of excellent plot seeds generated by members of this list > for the two (to date) Iron Rev contests (Are the links to > those still up, and if so who has them?). Although life has conspired to prevent me from updating the page to show the scores, Iron Rev II is posted here: http://www.ishware.com/prodigal/IronRev/IR2.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:53:13 -0400 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN> "And I Feel Fine" - Part 9: The Rapture > "Sucks to be you!", no doubt. There's a definite > streak of preemptive gloating going through a lot of > Tribulation fiction.* :) *coughcough*Tribulation Force *cough*by Tim F. LaHaye*hack!* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:04:22 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> "And I Feel Fine" - Part 9: The Rapture Maurice Lane wrote: > > --- Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > > And what do you say to the by-standers whom you *aren't* taking? > > "Sucks to be you!", no doubt. There's a definite > streak of preemptive gloating going through a lot of > Tribulation fiction.* :) ... Hadn't thought of that one. ... Though it would certainly fit for by-standers that the angel is not at all fond of. "Shape up!" with varying amounts of sympathy and additional explanation, was the theme that occurred to me. You're right about the "preemptive gloating" (nice phrase), but it's not just Trib fiction. Just about all apocalyptic literature could be said to have that as a main ingredient. I mean, nobody's battle-cry is "We're evil, and we're screwed!" Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 08:05:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> "And I Feel Fine" - Part 9: The Rapture - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > BTW, have you thought about doing other cultures' > Apopcalypses (Apopcalypsi?) for an encore? I can see it now: IN: Ragnarok! ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Fall down seven times, get up eight." - -- Japanese proverb __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 08:09:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> "And I Feel Fine" - Part 9: The Rapture Nice stuff. I like plenty. BTW, a mid-Trib Rapture is the one that makes the most sense according to the Biblical evidence. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Fall down seven times, get up eight." - -- Japanese proverb __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:11:37 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> "And I Feel Fine" - Part 9: The Rapture - --On Thursday, July 12, 2001 8:05 AM -0700 Michael Walton wrote: > > --- Maurice Lane wrote: >> BTW, have you thought about doing other cultures' >> Apopcalypses (Apopcalypsi?) for an encore? > > I can see it now: IN: Ragnarok! > In Nomine: Voyager! Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation. ("What?") ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:31:35 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> "And I Feel Fine" - Part 9: The Rapture >From: Earl Wajenberg > >I mean, nobody's battle-cry is "We're evil, and we're screwed!" > Clearly Earl has been spared the tribulation of listening to too much heavy metal :-) jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 01:15:49 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re:Dark Victory > What would happen if Vapula, through complete accident, tore a hole in the > spacetime continuum that the PCs fell through. In this alternate world, the > diabolicals won their revolution and angels are a freedom-fighting force. > Think Dark Victory(TM) from the start, rather than later in the War. > > Any thoughts? Write it up for Tattered. People have already been toying with cross-overs. James. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 01:20:33 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re: Printer's Devils > > Moe > > Printer's Devils Interesting. Of course, if reading material is that scarce, then smuggling out scripts from the slush piles in Perdition may be profitable... James. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 01:31:12 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re: Seraph of Destiny > Hi everybody, > > I'm new in your list and I'm not sure I'm doing things well. > I'm a master in In Nomine Campaign (of course ! :)). I play in Italy. > I'm with a little "dilemma" with a player of mine. He plays a Serpah of > Destiny. In the Angelic Player Guide it seems that Yves' Seraph is able to > detect true name of Celestial when Seraph touches it. What do you think > about ? Somebody could help me ? > > Thanks. > > Bye,Grey G'day Grey. Yes, he can, but so what? A Celestials' true name doesn't have to be unusual. 'Fred' makes an excellent name for a Djinn, for example. Given that Hell knows about the attunement, they're going to attempt to counter it, and the simplest way to do this give demons human sounding names. Habbalah will want religious names, of course - no shortage of those. I normally name Lilim after gemstones; again, quite common. This solve your problem? James. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 07:01:02 -0700 From: Charles E Smith Subject: Re: IN> Printer's Devils The centers of the Infernal literary 'movements' are, as mentioned above, Stygia and Shal-Mari: the bribery's easier, and more likely to work. Most customers are from those two Principalities as well, but these books can end up anywhere. What passes for an elite among damned souls usually have a volume or two hidden away in their meager personal possessions, although very few actually dare to read them - even in Hell, pretensions to intellectual ability is a popular pastime.<<< Nice seed Moe! One question though. Wouldn't a major center of such a movement also include Perdition? I would think that literature is part of the Media (if an understated part). ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 16:02:29 -0000 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> Seraphim of Yves and names Although the person who pointed out that a demon *could* be named Fred is technically correct, the chances are good that a celestial will have a name that's out of the ordinary, and very good that even if he's named David, Paul, Marcus, Alexander, Margaret, etc. (in other words, good Biblical or Greek names still in use today), it will not be the name he's using publicly - -- which will at least clue someone in that he's using an alias. Of course, if the person being resonated is a Seraph, he *will* be using his true name, so it won't help. One thing I do IMC with Mercurian resonances: the resonance says "what most people call you," and many angels (and demons) with Roles use their Role name almost exclusively no matter who they're talking to -- especially if they work with Soldiers a lot or are concerned with security. This means that the Mercurian resonance will get the name "Leo" or "Sally" if that's what most people *do* call them, even if they have another name for formal purposes. Janet Anderson _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:41:30 -0600 From: "Chris Holland" Subject: Re: IN> Re: 8th Virtue shirt >> > If >> > you *are* thinking about doing a design or two >> > in-house, the one I >> > definitely want is still "I'm the / ANGEL / the / >> > DEVIL / warned you >> > about", with "The 8th Virtue / Malakim Choir Glyph >> > / Malakite >> > Convention 2001" on the back. >> >>I want this one, too. > >And another order. You can add my name to the list as well. >I'd vote for dropping the 2001 date though, and just making it look like a >standard bar shirt. Who knows how many years from now I'll be wearing this >thing (or how many years it will take to get it printed)? I agree, it fits the Malakim personality a bit more. Christopher _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:53:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Re: 8th Virtue shirt - --- Chris Holland wrote: > >I'd vote for dropping the 2001 date though, and > just making it look like a > >standard bar shirt. Who knows how many years from > now I'll be wearing this > >thing (or how many years it will take to get it > printed)? > > I agree, it fits the Malakim personality a bit more. Hmmm. I'd suggest adding the phrase "Whenever we feel like it" where the date would be (or neatly crossing through said date and writing it underneath)... Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 06/05/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:54:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> "And I Feel Fine" - Part 9: The Rapture - --- Earl Wajenberg wrote: > I mean, nobody's battle-cry is "We're evil, and > we're screwed!" > > Earl Not _yet_, at any rate. Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 06/05/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:58:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Re: Printer's Devils - --- james walker wrote: > > > > Moe > > > > Printer's Devils > Interesting. Of course, if reading material is that > scarce, then smuggling > out scripts from the slush piles in Perdition may be > profitable... Hmm. Hadn't thought of that one: still, it's earmarked for human audiences, probably gets recycled to a faretheewell anyway, and doesn't precisely have a bite to it... :) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 06/05/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:00:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Mirror, Mirror ...Again? - --- "Erich S. Arendall" wrote: > From now on, Moe, I'm just going to check all ideas > through you first, okay? Hey, it's not even mostly my stuff. lots of people have come to play... :) moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 06/05/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 13:14:53 -0400 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN> Re:Brightness This reminds me of Nybbas' line from Dark Victory: > > "Playing Bright in a Dark world is good for the ratings..." > > Does anyone else get that? That is, when confronted with a > > Dark setting, inevitably want to play the hero? >of course! > >james. Inevitably, though I admidt, I don't play WoD often just because its dark. Jeffery _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:26:48 -0700 From: Ryan Elias Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim of Yves and names In our last IN campaign, I played a Calabite of Secrets who had been designed to masquerade as a human (former 17 force bruiser who had been stripped down to six, who's true name was John McAdams, or something). It worked out pretty well, actually, since most of the established demon detection schemes depend on forces (or essence) or true name. The only one I couldn't get around was the destiny/fate issue. And persistent Seraphs, of course. But there're plenty of ways to detect celestials (there's a page somewhere on the INC); Seraph of Destiny at least requires physical contact, so I wouldn't worry about it too much (it's those Vapulan Impudites who'll really give you headaches, I believe) Cheers, Ryan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 13:42:35 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Kochab, Renegade Demon Prince of Constellations An interesting figure. Good for a high-fantasy campaign. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 13:48:05 -0700 From: Anthony Damiani Subject: IN> 101 Things to do with a prince of Infernal Fire I've been meaning to ask about this for a while, as this is a longstanding issue for me, prompted largely by Moe's pure and unrelenting hatred of the DP of Fire. I don't hate him. I can't hate him. I can't even bring myself to /care/ one way or the other about Belial. I don't know how to use him in my games. He is said to not embrace the metaphorical concepts of his words to any great extent-- so what do his servitors do? Set fires? /All the time/? For dangerous savvy violence and villainy there's Baal. For destruction for destruction's sake I have Furfur and the entire band of Calabim. For dangerous buffoonery he's outdone by both Haagenti and Saminga. Any of his major roles seem to be eclipsed by other major princes. In fact the only thing I /can/ think to do with him is to blow him up when I want to underscore that the plot is Getting Mythic without actually destroying someone useful.... Somebody help me here, because I just don't get this guy... -ALD ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:49:09 -0600 From: "Chris Holland" Subject: IN> Prophecy Quick question. Has anyone written up the Prophecy movies by IN standards? Chris _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:55:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> 101 Things to do with a prince of Infernal Fire - --- Anthony Damiani wrote: > I've been meaning to ask about this for a while, as this > is a longstanding > issue for me, prompted largely by Moe's pure and > unrelenting hatred of the > DP of Fire. I don't hate him. I can't hate him. I can't > even bring myself > to /care/ one way or the other about Belial. I don't know > how to use him in > my games. He is said to not embrace the metaphorical > concepts of his words > to any great extent-- so what do his servitors do? Set > fires? /All the time/? I have problems with that, as well. My solution was to give Belial some metaphorical aspects to his Word, but not the kinder, gentler ones included in Gabriel's. Thus, Infernal Fire includes wrath and hatred, but not affection or romantic passion. An alternate take on that is to portray Belial as a dispassionate destroyer, an elemental force who burns things not because he enjoys it but solely because it is the nature of fire to burn. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Fall down seven times, get up eight." - -- Japanese proverb __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:10:40 -0400 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN> "And I Feel Fine" - Part 9: The Rapture I just want to say that this series has been magnificient and inspring. I love your interpretations and how they have been applied. Both my roommate and I are running two different IN/Crossover games and he is doing an apocalypse which this has been a wonderful way to help define how he will do it. For me its been great to see the applications. I was particualarly blown away with your interpretation of the 144,000. Thanks and I hope you continue with this great work. Jeffery _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:12:24 -0700 From: Anthony Damiani Subject: IN> I feel fine... the Habbalah, on the other hand... They stood there arrayed acros the marches, two vast armies each numbering as the stars. The horsemen rode, the beast was loosed, and The End had been decreed. Seas of blood, third of the earth burned up and all that. The time had come for the final battle. Baal stared out across the expanse at Michael, and pointed his sword at him-- a promise that before the day was done, the seraph would be no more. Saminga was gibbering and making a long-winded proclamation about the death that was to ensue. Good. Soon he would finally be able to unleash him against the enemy-- after having to suffer the fool's pratteling for so very, very long. Beleth looked cool, unnaturally so-- as this moment held no terrors for her, so too it held no excitement. He suppressed a shudder. Asmodeus and Kronos had decided to wage the battle on another level, and was off... somewhere else, a feint around the edges of reality. Valefor, likewise was absent, on a 'secret mission behind enemy lines'. Baal still wasn't sure if that meant that he was stealing Heaven's munitions, or he'd been Wind all along-- but by the end of the day, it wouldn't matter either way. Vapula seemed to be tinkering with some device he didn't entirely understand, but it was really big, and a sickly green light poured out from its rivited seams, so it couldn't be all bad. Haagenti chomped impatiently-- he hadn't eaten for hours, in preparation of the gorging that awaited. Nybbas was personally filming events for posterity. He would be useless in the battle ahead, but had been a valuable, if reluctant, source of essence for the final push And above all, it was hot, the air filled with hellfire, and flaming swords, ofanim and servitors of both Fires, the heat was everywhere and it was unbearable. Lucifer... had deigned fit not to show himself yet. But that was too be expected-- the Darkest of Dark Lords had always played his cards close to his vest. War glanced across his lines at the forces that had assembled, and somewhere on the other side, the archangel sneered and beckoned him, mouthing two words: bring it. Turning to adressess his forces. "I will not waste your time with long speaches. We all know why we are here. Today we storm the gates of heaven. Today we kill an unjust God and rape his corpse!" The latter was more a concession to Andre than anything. He gave the order, and his lines advanced in a mad and frantic rush, screaming blasphemies such as had never been heard before or since. He prepared to join them, when he realized something was wrong-- where was Malphas? He was there but a moment ago-- he wasn't supposed to be part of the initial assault. Baal whirled around, to see Kobal standing behind him, looking like the cat who swallowed the canary. "What are you looking for, impudite?" There was a great cry of 'Deus le volt!' and 'Ad majoram gloriam Dei!,' and then a crunch and the sounds of chaos and battle. And Kobal's smile spread, distending from ear to ear. There was true malice in that smile, as there always was.. This was, of course, a bad omen, and Baal grabbed Dark Humor by the throat--partly in rage, partly in terror-- and liffed him from the floor of the marches, with a look that demanded explanation. "Settle a bet for me, War..." the Clown Prince's smirk was intolerable, and though Baal squeezed his throat, he proved unable to rid himself of it. Kobal choked out a laugh and pointed behind the balseraph. "What part of 'I'm an Angel' " he made little quote motions with his hands "did you not understand?" War whirled around and saw with a sinking horror that his forces, breaking from the defection into a confused melee, had failed even to reach the ranks of Heaven. He watched as Fleurity rained chemical death down upon the assembled hordes, and as another score of broken-elohim lashed gleefully at a wounded, bellowing Mammon. Lawrence's armies stood stunned for only a moment before advancing on the ranks of The Enemy, aided by an ally they had never imagined, and never would have acknowledged. Snapping Kobal's neck like a fortune-cookie, Baal dropped the prince's corpse at his feet and spun madly, trying to find some way to salvage the situation-- Vapula. He had to find Vapula before.... A sickly green glow washed across across the battlefield, and when it was over, Punishment had been meted out. -ALD ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:29:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> I feel fine... the Habbalah, on the other hand... Heh. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha-ha-ha. Hah-HAH-HAH! MWBWAH-HAH-HAH-HAH-HAHHHH!!!!! Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 06/05/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 13:31:51 -0500 From: "Erich S. Arendall" Subject: Re: IN> "And I Feel Fine" - Part 9: The Rapture > In moments, the world loses a third of its adult population. Without > bias by creed, people vanish everywhere. Sometimes, they wink out > before the eyes of others. Sometimes, there is a moment of ecstatic > wonder in their faces. Sometimes they shout in fear at something > invisible. Sometimes they run from unseen things for a few paces, > before vanishing, or argue with the air a bit, then disappear. I've always wondered about this. If, say, a train engineer was suddenly whisked away while, ...err, engineering? driving? a train, wouldn't their be some sort of repercussions to the action? Would the Rapture be suddenly followed by vehicle collisions, planes falling from the sky, construction accidents, etc. or would the Hand of God(TM) be benevolent enough to lift people (and their corporeal forms) away when they're in safe positions? Excellent In Nomine interpretations, in case I've not mentioned it before. Veddy veddy good stuff. Cordially, Erich S. Arendall "Klaatu, Verata, and Nickto? Weren't those the three Wise Guys... err, Men?" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:47:22 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> "And I Feel Fine" - Part 9: The Rapture Erich S. Arendall wrote: > Would the Rapture be suddenly followed by vehicle collisions, planes > falling from the sky, construction accidents, etc. or would the Hand > of God(TM) be benevolent enough to lift people (and their corporeal > forms) away when they're in safe positions? Well, there used to be a bumper sticker that read, more or less, "Warning: In case of Rapture, this vehicle will be without a driver," and the awkwardness of disappearances is a standard part of Tribulation fiction. So this implies a lot of chaos, and an attitude that that's just tough on the unRaptured. Nothing in the theology *prevents* a Rapture with a softer landing, though, so far as I know. And this scenario has the Rapture implemented by individual angels, so results might vary a lot. I can see Flower angels doing their Rapture bit, say, out of an airplane, then collaring the nearest Ophanite (if they aren't Ophanim themselves) and shoving it into the cockpit with demands for a safe landing. Stone angels, on the other hand, might grab the pilot and loft, and too bad if no one else on the plane can fly. > Veddy veddy good stuff. Thank you. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:48:37 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> "And I Feel Fine" - Part 9: The Rapture Jeffery Watkins wrote: > > I just want to say that this series has been magnificient and inspring. Thank you very much. > Both my roommate and I are running two different IN/Crossover games > and he is doing an apocalypse which this has been a wonderful way to > help define how he will do it. I'm delighted that this will actually see roleplaying use. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:50:12 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> An actual scene from a friend's campaign This is in regards to the "Apcolypse" being one railroad job... The game was demonic PCs.... *Damien the Antichrist is stabbed* "Damn you NAZARENE!" *Damien falls to the ground dead* Succubus PC: Uhmmmmmm... *bright light encompasses her before she's alone with the Devil* Succubus: What the? Lucifer: The world you've been assigned to has unfortunately run it's course. As per the Master's instructions we have been defeated and redemption will reign across this world for all time. Succubus: But what now? *Lucifer smiles and it is not a pretty smile as the image of a beautiful world of green pastures and shining towers appears* Lucifer: We move on to the next one...you've proven yourself worthy of tackling larger assignments. This is a world where the Catholic church is universal and....*he gets an unpleasant look on his face* just. I want you to deliver it to me. Succubus: More worlds but...won't we lose again? Lucifer: Yes...and again...and again...forever. However there will always be another world....and more power. *The succubus smiles and looks at Lucifer knowing perhaps someday she might take his mantle with such an endless stream of defeats for him* Lucifer: yes...perhaps - -Charlie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:03:45 -0500 From: Jason Schneiderman Subject: Re: IN> 101 Things to do with a prince of Infernal Fire > I've been meaning to ask about this for a while, as this is a >longstanding >issue for me, prompted largely by Moe's pure and unrelenting hatred of the >DP of Fire. I don't hate him. I can't hate him. I can't even bring myself >to /care/ one way or the other about Belial. I don't know how to use him in >my games. He is said to not embrace the metaphorical concepts of his words >to any great extent-- so what do his servitors do? Set fires? /All the time/? > For dangerous savvy violence and villainy there's Baal. For >destruction >for destruction's sake I have Furfur and the entire band of Calabim. For >dangerous buffoonery he's outdone by both Haagenti and Saminga. Any of his >major roles seem to be eclipsed by other major princes. In fact the only >thing I /can/ think to do with him is to blow him up when I want to >underscore that the plot is Getting Mythic without actually destroying >someone useful.... > > Somebody help me here, because I just don't get this guy... Admittedly, I tend to play somewhat backwards games. This may help a little. But I've always seen it somewhat like this: Michael and Baal are pitted as adversaries. But Baal is more like Laurence than he is like Michael. Who among the demon princes is like Michael? That's where Belial comes in. The word of Infernal Fire is the devastating blaze that lays waste. It's napalm. It's Agent Orange. It's a fertilizer bomb in the basement. It leaves no survivors. (Hardcore requires a witness, even if it's only the perpetrators. Someone has to *say* it's hardcore.) A Novaline might say that Divine Fire kills weeds, while Infernal Fire salts the earth. In some games, I've made him blind, to draw analogies with Gabriel's gift of prophecy. In others, I've implied that he shares the same relationship with the former Prince of Destruction that Laurence shared with Uriel - and that the Purity Crusade shares as much with Infernal Fire as it does divine. Does that add anything to the discussion? * * * * * Jason Schneiderman, Editor, EDITORIAL HUMOR. E-mail: edhumor@tiac.net ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2299 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.