From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Jul 20 11:33:05 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22718 for ; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 11:33:05 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id LAA19586 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 11:32:10 -0500 Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 11:32:10 -0500 Message-Id: <200107201632.LAA19586@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2309 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, July 20 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2309 In this digest: Re: IN> Angel of Bounty Hunters Re: IN> Proto-Superiors 1 -- Squalor Re: IN> Proto-Superiors 1 -- Squalor IN> A puzzle... Re: IN> The Online Conspiracy IN> Re: Demon of Squalor IN> Re:Angel of Bounty Hunters Re: IN> Re:Angel of Bounty Hunters IN> Re: IN/Continuum IN> Re: Alaemon's Band Re: IN> The Online Conspiracy Re: IN> Re:Angel of Bounty Hunters Re: IN> Proto-Superiors Re: IN> The Online Conspiracy Re: IN> Re:Angel of Bounty Hunters Re: IN> The Online Conspiracy Re: IN> Re: Alaemon's Band Re: IN> The Online Conspiracy Re: IN> Re:Angel of Bounty Hunters Re: IN> Proto-Superiors 1 -- Squalor IN> Ormazd Re: IN> The Online Conspiracy Re: IN> Re: Alaemon's Band Re: IN> Re: IN/Continuum Re: IN> Ormazd Re: IN> Ormazd Re: IN> Re: IN/Continuum Re: IN> Ormazd IN> Skulker Re: IN> Skulker IN> The Demon of Squalor -- further thoughts Re: IN> Proto-Superiors 1 -- Squalor Re: IN> Proto-Superiors 1 -- Squalor Re: IN> Ormazd ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 18:37:53 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Angel of Bounty Hunters > I am a list newbie, but I have heard many wonderful things about it. > I play in Casca's game currently, but I need more.(no offense Eric) Y'know, considering how much I abuse you in VO4, I find this indicative of a masochistic personality. No matter. I'll just grind you all the finer under my heel.... > Salathiel > Cherub of Judgment > Angel of Bounty Hunters When Dave was hitting me up for ideas regarding Sally, we bandied about the usual Judgement/Fire decision. In a fit of whimsey, I puckishly suggested Cherub of the Sword, with their attune-at-a-glance ability. - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 17:49:18 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Proto-Superiors 1 -- Squalor From: "Douglas Muir" > > More likely he'll simply crash through a wall, Kool-Aid style, > and devour this upstart whole. I laughed loudly enough to scare my cow orkers when I read this. Nicely done. :) > Possible allies: Kronos (Squalor destroys the human spirit), Saminga > (disease and crime), Fleurity, and possibly Belial (slums burn nicely, and > there's an "enemy's enemy" effect WRT Haagenti). Andrealphus could go > either way -- moral squalor is great, but poor, dirty and diseased humans > are unattractive. I could see Furfur being an ally, also - the more densely-packed people's living conditions are, and the more squalid their lives are, the more likely they are to riot. Depending on how intelligent you want Furfur to be, he could be cultivating relations with Scroud out of anything from whatever passes for friendship among demon princes to sheer calculating self-interest. Only in a campaign where Furfur is played as not very smart would he be anything less than Associated, IMO. I don't think he would get anything better than Neutral relations from Lilith, though, since his Word is furthered by the kind of poverty that keeps humans enslaved to their circumstances. On the other side of the celestial fence, I could see David being hostile (since he inflicts hardship not to strengthen, but to grind down,) and I can't see any way that Laurence would not like to see Scroud's forces dispersed (since the sheer Darwinian quality of life in areas where Squalor holds sway would breed dishonorable behavior.) Likewise, I see Eli as hating Scroud, because the squalid conditions he fosters hinder the development of creativity among the afflicted human residents. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:06:13 -0400 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Re: IN> Proto-Superiors 1 -- Squalor - -----Original Message----- Date: Thursday, July 19, 2001 6:27 PM From: Douglas Muir Subject: IN> Proto-Superiors 1 -- Squalor >Possible allies: Kronos (Squalor destroys the human spirit), Saminga >(disease and crime), Fleurity, and possibly Belial (slums burn nicely, and >there's an "enemy's enemy" effect WRT Haagenti). Andrealphus could go >either way -- moral squalor is great, but poor, dirty and diseased humans >are unattractive. Andrealphus would probably be Neutral. So would Valefor, actually. Squalor's good for encouraging criminal behavior, but poor people have little to nothing worth stealing. Baal might actually like the kid, since people living in Squalor are so inclined to performing acts of violence to better their lives, making them vulnerable to Demonic influence. After all, would the people of Palestine have been so eager to go at war with Israel if they didn't consider themselves living in Squalor, compared to the Rich Jews? Beleth would find the horrid conditions of any slum suitable breeding ground for Nightmares and Frightening Urban Legends, so mark up another ally. Asmodeus is the last Prince I could think about who would be Neutral, bordering on Associated; Slums may foster civil disobedience, but it also conveniently fences it up in controllable areas. When Scroud makes his bid for Princehood, Asmodeus might be willing to turn the other way. >Probable enemies: Mammon, Haagenti, possibly Haagenti's "brother" Kobal. Actually, I would see Mammon as supporting Scroud in his bid for Princedom, as Greed and Squalor fit well together: Slumlords are mainly motivated by Greed, after all, and Greedy people tend to leave Poverty in their wake. How many people now are unemployed because of "Downsizing" and "Cutbacks" their companies made to save a Buck? Plus, Mammon would strongly support ANYTHING that knocks Haagenti down a peg. >Particularly hostile Archangels: Gabriel, Marc I would add Christopher ("Does this look like a Place to raise Children?"), Blandine ("She might not really hate him, but he'd dislike her attempts to foster Hope in Slums), Eli (He'd constantly be trying to fix up the Slums) and Novalis (She'd keep trying to make the Slum people feel better, which works against the purpose of his Word). No one but Marc and Gabriel would probably see him as a potential threat before it was too late, however. - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 00:53:32 +0100 From: "Genevieve Cogman" Subject: IN> A puzzle... A little puzzle game, for those who might be intrigued . . . http://home.hccnet.nl/p.c.de.jong/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 20:24:44 -0400 From: Mason Kramer Subject: Re: IN> The Online Conspiracy On 7/19/01 8:32 AM, "Whistling in the Dark" wrote: > Some folks have wondered about my long absences on this list this > summer. I've mentioned grad school to them, and the day long BSI > courses followed by work and the like. I've mentioned some other > projects too. Yeeeees... You've mentioned this. And yet, I can't help but notice that you were largely absent during the same chunk of time that Moe was largely absent. Coincidence? I think *not*. But what game is Alaemon playing *now*? Mason Angel of... Um... I forget. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 11:06:08 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re: Demon of Squalor > Thoughts? That has the makings of a great adventure - or even campaign. I'd add Laurence to the list of especially Hostile Archangels, partly because of personal dislike but mainly because eliminating Scroud now effectively eliminates a Demon Prince. James. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 11:11:38 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re:Angel of Bounty Hunters Nice write-up, with an excellent explanation of how he ended up with his Word. ( And the fact that you were careful to describe his Celestial Form is something that pleases me greatly - that is often forgotten). A few minor points - > Attunement: Salathiel gets a +2 on his check digits for > any roll that is directly involved with tracking and capturing his query. Given how IN works, that will actually make any failed rolls worse. If you want him to be able to increase his check digits, then a choice between increasing the skill or the CD would be the way to go. Alternatively, being able to gain a Nemesis attunement on someone who harmed an attuned BEFORE Salathiel attuned to them IF they are offering a bounty would be an interesting way of blending Choir & Word. > Dissonance Condition: Lesser Word Bound don't normally have dissonance conditions; however I believe they can, so, as long as you are aware that this is unusual, no worries. >Word Forces probably 4-6; a Minor Word which most people have heard of but which is unlikely to impact their lives. Very good very effort! > From: Cameron McCurry > Not a bad notion, but I question why he would be a Servitor of Judgment. > Given the role of bounty hunters as retrieving those who try to escape justice, > as well as Dominic's lack of interest in mortal laws, it would make more sense > for him to be one of Gabriel's. No. Gabriel's angels must punish the cruel; capturing and handing over to mortal justice is unlikely to be sufficient to prevent dissonance - especially as may cruel actions will not have been noticed by human authorities. Also, Dominic IS interested in human laws; heck, one of his Basic Rites is: Help deliver a guilty mortal to corporeal justice! James. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 21:28:12 -0400 From: "John Maurer" Subject: Re: IN> Re:Angel of Bounty Hunters - ----- Original Message ----- From: "james walker" To: Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 8:11 PM Subject: IN> Re:Angel of Bounty Hunters > No. Gabriel's angels must punish the cruel; capturing and handing over to > mortal justice is unlikely to be sufficient to prevent dissonance - > especially as may cruel actions will not have been noticed by human > authorities. Anyone who jumps bail is going to spend serious jail time. Gabriels servitors can't dish out cruel punishment, or even necessarily "equal punishment". I guess it depends on how you play Gabriel. Catching a bail jumper and putting them in jail can be pretty bad. Despite what myths you hear about prison, it is NOT a fun time where everyone works weights and watches TV all day. Male rape is common, as is violence among prisoners. Prisoners are put into forced labor at wages often being about 10-12 cents an hour (although they do get free room and board). They are generally allowed less than 6 hours of sleep a day to keep them exhausted and therefore less dangerous. It is no picnic ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 21:29:56 -0400 From: Jonathan Walton Subject: IN> Re: IN/Continuum >This is the approach that Continuum (one of the few thoroughly thought-out >time-travel systems around) takes. Use present tense for almost anything >in the third person. Using past and future tenses implies that you are >talking about personal history and future (what Continuum terms Age and >Yet) rather than global past and future (Up and Down). It seems to work. Yeah, I know. That's what I was quoting from. I was the guy who drafted the IN/Continuum crossover setting a while back (drat! can't search archives) with Yves secretly being the Archangel of Time and Kronos the Demon Prince of Paradox. I think I confused everyone a little too much though. Continuum can do that to you. Later. Jonathan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 11:55:26 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re: Alaemon's Band > Moe > > *The actual form, OTOH, might be interesting. I know > that solid rumor makes him an Impudite, but consider: > wouldn't a Fallen Grigori make a certain amount of > aesthetic sense? Yes, it would...and the Skulker resonance fits nicely with the Word of Secrets. hmm - Have a New Band Attunement for Secrets: Skulker (restricted) Alaemon's fellow Skulkers have their Celestial Forms modified to resemble another Band. Their new celestial Form is chosen when the attunement is gained, and can only be changed by re-buying this Attunement. The Skulker may 'belong' to one of the following Bands: Calabim, Lilim, Habbalah, Impudite or Pachadim. Naturally, the existence of this Attunement is Secret. James. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 19:53:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> The Online Conspiracy - --- Mason Kramer wrote: > Yeeeees... You've mentioned this. And yet, I can't > help but notice that you > were largely absent during the same chunk of time > that Moe was largely > absent. Coincidence? I think *not*. Come _on_, Mason: Eric and I don't even come *close* to having similar writing styles. He does high concept, and I... well, damned if I know what my 'style' is, unless "barking mad" counts. And no, we don't have sufficiently _dissimilar_ writing styles to justify the old 'secret identity' wheeze, either. ;) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 06/05/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 23:07:41 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Re:Angel of Bounty Hunters > > Dissonance Condition: > Lesser Word Bound don't normally have dissonance conditions; however I > believe they can, so, as long as you are aware that this is unusual, no > worries. This is a holdover from my campaign, where I have stated that any celestial who gets a Word gains a corresponding Dissonance condition. - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 00:06:37 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Proto-Superiors >>I've got two or three of these guys sort-of written up. Anyone else have >>any thoughts on this? > >http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/INChar/Angels/Malakite.Zuriel.html Ooh, nice one. Fits, too. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 05:23:55 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> The Online Conspiracy At 7:53 PM -0700 7/19/01, Maurice Lane wrote: >--- Mason Kramer wrote: > >> Yeeeees... You've mentioned this. And yet, I can't >> help but notice that you >> were largely absent during the same chunk of time >> that Moe was largely >> absent. Coincidence? I think *not*. > >Come _on_, Mason: Eric and I don't even come *close* >to having similar writing styles. He does high >concept, and I... well, damned if I know what my >'style' is, unless "barking mad" counts. > >And no, we don't have sufficiently _dissimilar_ >writing styles to justify the old 'secret identity' >wheeze, either. Of course, we *could* just be saying that.... (And how d'you know he doesn't see us holed up in a mountain villa, plotting the fate of all mankind? We don't *have* to be the same person in an evil conspiracy, after all.) - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Impudite of Secrets (candidate for the Word of Obscurity) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 07:12:51 -0400 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN> Re:Angel of Bounty Hunters james walker said unto us: > No. Gabriel's angels must punish the cruel; capturing and handing over to > mortal justice is unlikely to be sufficient to prevent dissonance - > especially as may cruel actions will not have been noticed by human > authorities. Quote from main book regarding Gabriel's Ofanim Attunement: "Charged with pursuing those who flee justice-" That sounds a bit like a bounty hunter's job description. Although a bounty hunter (Bail Bondsman) is only interested in going after people that skip out on their bond. > Also, Dominic IS interested in human laws; heck, one of his Basic Rites is: > Help deliver a guilty mortal to corporeal justice! My last post was also taken from the main book that stated how Dominic has little interest in human laws. If there was a correction or an expansion to that in Superiors 1, I wouldn't know as I don't own that book. As it also states in the main book, "He and his Servitors are more concerned with "rooting out corruption in the Symphony....Especially among angels." That's the priority over any laws that they encounter over Earth. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 05:27:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> The Online Conspiracy - --- Whistling in the Dark wrote: > At 7:53 PM -0700 7/19/01, Maurice Lane wrote: > (And how d'you know he doesn't see us holed up in a > mountain villa, > plotting the fate of all mankind? We don't *have* to > be the same > person in an evil conspiracy, after all.) Naah. I never get tapped for that sort of thing, and I had just the background the Illuminati was looking for: too bright for my own good, poor peer* relationships, a hellish puberty... But I digress. Bringing this a bit more on-IN... hmm. Angel of the Illuminati (obviously, a Demon of same would have a short yet interesting life, as befits things in a tug-of-war between Alaemon and Malphas, with Asmodeus kibitzing on the sidelines): Stone, maybe? I could argue War, Trade or (for Robert Anton Wilson fans) a particularly odd Flowerchild... ;) Moe *Hah! ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 06/05/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 05:41:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Re: Alaemon's Band - --- james walker wrote: > Skulker (restricted) > Alaemon's fellow Skulkers have their Celestial Forms > modified to resemble > another Band. [snip]: Calabim, Lilim, Habbalah, > Impudite or Pachadim. Considering that only Beleth can make Pachadim, I think it's reasonable that Alaemon couldn't make other demons look like them. Other than that, I like it. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 05:43:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> The Online Conspiracy - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > And no, we don't have sufficiently _dissimilar_ > writing styles to justify the old 'secret identity' > wheeze, either. Sure, Eric is secretly Moe... he takes off his glasses to write the really wierd stuff! }:;:> ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 05:46:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Re:Angel of Bounty Hunters > > Lesser Word Bound don't normally have dissonance > conditions; however I > > believe they can, so, as long as you are aware that > this is unusual, no > > worries. As per the GMG, all Word-bound have Dissonance conditions, but only Superiors can impose those Dissonance conditions on their Servitors. However, lesser Word-bound can make voluntary acceptance of their Dissonance conditions a prerequisite for receiving their Rites and/or Attunements. This is how I work it in my campaign. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 05:59:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Proto-Superiors 1 -- Squalor - --- Douglas Muir wrote: > Scroud, Demon of Squalor I like this guy -- I can definitely get a plot out of him. Almost makes me wish I ran a demonic campaign instead of an angelic one. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 13:07:16 +0000 From: "Fallen Seraph" Subject: IN> Ormazd Righty. It's Fusion Time! the lovely Cas has got my brain working with that Ahriman post. time to fit it into canon (ish) Zoroastrianism was Yves and Eli dry-running monotheisim (Canon IIRC) so why did yves set michael up as Ormazd, the god-head figure for the religion? (non-canon). maybe so that if the project failed, it would not damage heaven so much, and michael was deemed the strongest candidate for surviving any fallout (War is pretty much a self-perpetuating word, with humans involved. ergo quick word-recovery.) If michael willingly accepted the position, surely dominic would have had kittens (call them hammurabi, solomon, or whatever). Itr would be (in his eyes) a heresy as great as lucifers, declaring yourself equal to god. which is why he tried michael. Michael now distrusts yves because it was yves idea, and it got mike in trouble. If Yves set michael up as ormazd, perhaps, just perhaps, he conspired to create Ahriman as well (Yves level of divine ineffability would probably be powerfull enough to obfuscate the Adversary's word). but why would Yves create a powerful and utterly evil force? solely as a counterpoint to the new religion? anyone smell too much effort/too little effect, and after all, Ahriman is still around, unlike the religion that he featured in. what is Destiny up to, eh? As another point, can anyone think of other AAs who might be guilty of creating cults of personality to gain additional Essence. We all know Baal and Belial did so, but would an AA stoop to such a low? Depends how dark you like it i guess. (Janus would be a good candidate, and Gabriel might sponsor appocalypse cults) Ruminate, cogitate and vomit forth ideas people! - -FallenSeraph "I still believe in God, but He no longer believes in me..." http://eternalcity.freeservers.com ICQ: 110193631 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 09:35:20 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> The Online Conspiracy At 5:27 AM -0700 7/20/01, Maurice Lane wrote: >Bringing this a bit more on-IN... hmm. Angel of the >Illuminati (obviously, a Demon of same would have a >short yet interesting life, as befits things in a >tug-of-war between Alaemon and Malphas, with Asmodeus >kibitzing on the sidelines): Stone, maybe? I could >argue War, Trade or (for Robert Anton Wilson fans) a >particularly odd Flowerchild... If we're taking "Illuminati" to mean the Robert Anton Wilson/antiDiscordian/Masterminds behind everything definition, then Destiny. So totally Destiny. If we take deeper meanings of the word, then wouldn't it be Fire? Or perhaps... Light. And who's the Angel of the Illuminati *really* working for now? - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Impudite of Secrets (candidate for the Word of Obscurity) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 09:36:55 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Re: Alaemon's Band At 5:41 AM -0700 7/20/01, Michael Walton wrote: >--- james walker wrote: >> Skulker (restricted) >> Alaemon's fellow Skulkers have their Celestial Forms >> modified to resemble >> another Band. [snip]: Calabim, Lilim, Habbalah, >> Impudite or Pachadim. > > Considering that only Beleth can make Pachadim, I think >it's reasonable that Alaemon couldn't make other demons >look like them. Other than that, I like it. By those lights, Lemmy couldn't make them look like Lilim either. I'm thinking resculpting a Celestial Form to look like another Demon isn't a huge issue -- might as well throw the Pachadim in there too. (To be *really* fun, make them look like *Angels.*) - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Mercurian of Revelation (candidate for the Word of Obscurity) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:22:33 -0400 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN/Continuum Yeah, I know. That's what I was quoting from. I was the guy who >drafted the IN/Continuum crossover setting a while back Really! Any chance you still have those notes on the setting? I am running a IN/Crossover game that has time travel and I do use Continuum as well as GURPS Time Travel in the game. If you still have them, since the archives section is down, would you be willing to either re-post or send them to me? Thanks in any case. Jeffery _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 07:24:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Ormazd - --- Fallen Seraph wrote: > Righty. It's Fusion Time! > > the lovely Cas has got my brain working with that > Ahriman post. > > time to fit it into canon (ish) Pretty good. Hmm, what does that make... (struck by a related thought) Wait a second. My God, that would explain everything. Sweep it all up into a neat pile and even wrap it in a fragging bow. Bloody _everything_. Wow. I wonder if I can fake some kind of acute illness, so I can get home early and write it all out? Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 06/05/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:31:36 -0400 From: "Seth Questor" Subject: Re: IN> Ormazd - --- Moe wrote: >Wait a second. >My God, that would explain everything. Sweep it all >up into a neat pile and even wrap it in a fragging >bow. Bloody _everything_. Please do :) - ----------------------------------------------------------- No one who is safe is truly free. - ----------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:34:20 -0400 From: "Seth Questor" Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN/Continuum >From: "Jeffery Watkins" >Really! Any chance you still have those notes on the setting? I am running >a >IN/Crossover game that has time travel and I do use Continuum as well as >GURPS Time Travel in the game. If you still have them, since the archives >section is down, would you be willing to either re-post or send them to me? >Thanks in any case. I would love to see those as well. Continuum is one of the most interesting games I've ever seen. Course, I enjoy rpg's that are "hard" to play. - ---Seth _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 14:44:58 +0000 From: "Fallen Seraph" Subject: Re: IN> Ormazd >My God, that would explain everything. Sweep it all >up into a neat pile and even wrap it in a fragging >bow. Bloody _everything_. >Wow. oh pants. i've given Moe the key to his Grand Unification Theory. Looks like i've fulfilled my Fate. See Ya In Hell! so you can all blame me. - -Fallen(for sure now)Seraph "I still believe in God, but He no longer believes in me..." http://eternalcity.freeservers.com ICQ: 110193631 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 09:33:13 -0600 From: "Chris Holland" Subject: IN> Skulker Where could I find a writeup of this band? Chris _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 08:42:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Skulker - --- Chris Holland wrote: > > Where could I find a writeup of this band? > > Chris Heh. There isn't a canonical writeup: I _think_ that David E referred to them in his web writeup. If not, well, you'll have to hope that somebody writes them up in response. Usually, somebody will. :) Moe "No, not me: I'm too busy fiendishly plotting out text. Oh, look, that's where Gebunath goes..." Lane ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 06/05/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 12:23:23 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: IN> The Demon of Squalor -- further thoughts I don't know why, but this bad boy won't let me go yet. Subprincipality: Scroud runs -- what else? -- a disgusting slum on the edge of Shal-Mari. The damned souls of slumlords and corrupt public officials are crammed into dark, dirty, stinking little rooms, to be tormented by imp "landlords" and gremlin "custodians". Calabim and Habbalah roam the narrow, garbage-strewn streets outside, lashing out at will. Scroud's Ducal Palace is the biggest and worst tenement of all. Scroud has the penthouse, while the entire first floor is taken up by... a restaurant; he is in service to Gluttony, after all. But the restaurant in question mixes his word with his Prince's. Known as The Trench, it's the most disgusting, filthy, stinking, /squalid/ eatery in all Shal-Mari. Which is saying something. But, hey, the coffee's hot... and it can be a good place for a quiet meeting, as the Game won't go in there (or so it's said). The Shedite Demon of Filthy Restaurants can be found bubbling behind the counter when he's not on Earth. Serving Squalor: Scroud may be the best Duke of Gluttony to serve under. Stern, but fair, he's generous to those who serve Gluttony well, and just a bit more generous to those who serve _him_ well. This is, of course, enlightened selfishness on his part. If he's going to successfully make the jump to Princehood, he needs Servitors who'll feel what passes for loyalty in Hell, or who will at least be willing to take a calculated risk in jumping with him. PC Demons could find themselves gradually being drawn into Scroud's plotting. PC Angels, too, of course -- but from a different perspective; see below. As with Furfur, most AAs would oppose Scroud, but a few would be neutral or even supportive. What Would Lucifer Do? -- If Scroud ever manages to present his petition, there's no telling which way Lucifer might jump. The GM could have him grant the Princedom, or turn Scroud over to Haagenti (mmmm, traitor), or anything in between. He's perfectly capable of doing something weirdly unexpected, too -- giving Scroud a *different* Word, or sending him on a mission to "prove" himself, or whatever. Scroud himself figures it this way. That obnoxious jerk Furfur somewhat reduced his chances; after all, will Lucifer be willing to promote a *second* upstart Calabite to Princehood against his Superior's wishes? So soon after the last one, anyway? On the other hand, Scroud has proven himself to be intelligent, cunning, and dedicated to Hell's cause. And Squalor is such a great Word! In Scroud's opinion, Hell has been missing a bet; ever since the Princes of Corruption, Sloth, and Disease disappeared from the scene, certain aspects of evil and degradation have been under-represented. There's a niche open, and he's just the demon to fill it. And surely Scroud, one of the smartest of his Band, can make his case at least as well as Furfur did... Archangelic opinions in more detail -- All the AAs know of Scroud already (they keep track of all Hell's Dukes), but none of them know that he's plotting to become a Prince -- though some of the more strategically minded ones may suspect it. Most of the AAs would oppose his bid for Princehood, but two or three might be neutral to it, and one -- Michael -- might actually quietly support it. After all, he was in favor of Furfur (_Night Music_, p. 118), and the reasons given there would work even more strongly in Scroud's favor. It's doubtful whether Michael would go so far as to _help_ the upstart Duke, but... Gabriel or Marc, OTOH, would probably go all-out to stop him. Marc, in particular, would be cunning enough to pass a warning along to Haagenti, if he could find enough firm evidence to back it. After all, getting the other side to kill (and eat) a powerful Word-bound Duke is just as good as killing him yourself... Thoughts? Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 12:24:32 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Proto-Superiors 1 -- Squalor >>Possible allies: [snippage] >Andrealphus would probably be Neutral. So would Valefor, actually. >Squalor's good for encouraging criminal behavior, but poor people have >little to nothing worth stealing. After you've looked at their Words, you then want to consider the individual personalities of the Princes. Would Valefor appreciate another intelligent, thoughtful Calabite Prince? Or would he consider Scroud a rival to his own uniqueness? I'm inclined to think the latter, but YMMV. >Baal might actually like the kid, since people living in Squalor are so >inclined to performing acts of violence to better their lives, making them >vulnerable to Demonic influence. Yah, quite possibly. After all, he degrades the monkeys, which is just what they deserve... I suspect Baal would find him the least objectionable of the Shal-Mari Princes. >Beleth would find the horrid conditions of any slum suitable breeding ground >for Nightmares and Frightening Urban Legends, so mark up another ally. Associated, perhaps. >Asmodeus is the last Prince I could think about who would be Neutral, >bordering on Associated; Slums may foster civil disobedience, but it also >conveniently fences it up in controllable areas. When Scroud makes his bid >for Princehood, Asmodeus might be willing to turn the other way. Well, as noted, Scroud has been more or less bribing him in advance. This signals to Asmodeus that Scroud understands how The Game is played. >>Probable enemies: Mammon, Haagenti, possibly Haagenti's "brother" Kobal. > >Actually, I would see Mammon as supporting Scroud in his bid for Princedom, >as Greed and Squalor fit well together: Slumlords are mainly motivated by >Greed, after all, and Greedy people tend to leave Poverty in their wake. >How many people now are unemployed because of "Downsizing" and "Cutbacks" >their companies made to save a Buck? If Mammon were sensible he'd still be a major prince. Resentment and jealousy frequently trump good sense in Hell. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 12:25:57 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Proto-Superiors 1 -- Squalor >> More likely he'll simply crash through a wall, Kool-Aid style, >> and devour this upstart whole. > >I laughed loudly enough to scare my cow orkers when I read this. Nicely >done. :) Thankee. >I could see Furfur being an ally, also - the more densely-packed people's >living conditions are, and the more squalid their lives are, the more likely >they are to riot. Depending on how intelligent you want Furfur to be, he >could be cultivating relations with Scroud out of anything from whatever >passes for friendship among demon princes to sheer calculating >self-interest. Only in a campaign where Furfur is played as not very smart >would he be anything less than Associated, IMO. Right now, Scroud is annoyed with Furfur for possibly queering his own chances at Princehood (see my previous post). He'd love to trip up the newest Prince if he could -- it'd leave a gap for another ambitious Calabite. If no such opportunity arises, though, he's smart enough to swallow his irritation and smile. If Scroud _does_ get his Princehood, he'll promptly make friendly overtures to Furfur; we young Princes have to stick together, our Words support each other, yadda yadda. Furfur's reaction would depend, as you say, on how intelligent you think he is. >I don't think he would get anything better than Neutral relations from >Lilith, though, since his Word is furthered by the kind of poverty that >keeps humans enslaved to their circumstances. I'd agree with that. OTOH, this wouldn't stop her from helping him IMO -- it'd just make her jack up the price some more. >On the other side of the celestial fence, I could see David being hostile >(since he inflicts hardship not to strengthen, but to grind down,) Probably, yah. >and I >can't see any way that Laurence would not like to see Scroud's forces >dispersed (since the sheer Darwinian quality of life in areas where Squalor >holds sway would breed dishonorable behavior.) Yep. >Likewise, I see Eli as hating Scroud, because the squalid conditions he >fosters hinder the development of creativity among the afflicted human >residents. If he notices, yes. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 12:35:04 -0400 From: "S.D." Subject: Re: IN> Ormazd >As another point, can anyone think of other AAs who might be guilty of >creating cults of personality to gain additional Essence. We all know Baal >and Belial did so, but would an AA stoop to such a low? Depends how dark you >like it i guess. (Janus would be a good candidate, and Gabriel might sponsor >appocalypse cults) Ruminate, cogitate and vomit forth ideas people! Didn't I just post something along those lines? ^^;; (title was "Human perceptions, and another theory on Janus/Valefor", on 7/17/01) ~S.D. Ryukage http://fly.to/sd_nexus ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ (A) "I fail to see the humor in this." (C) "Really? Because I fail to _miss_ the humor in this!" Anubis Doji and Cale Sasaki, 'Ronin Warriors: The New Generation' ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2309 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.