From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Jul 22 04:17:53 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA01576 for ; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 04:17:52 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id EAA15090 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 04:18:46 -0500 Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 04:18:46 -0500 Message-Id: <200107220918.EAA15090@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2312 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, July 22 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2312 In this digest: Re: IN> Attunements & Rites Re: IN> Re: Scroud Re: IN> Proto-Superior: Perdix, Demon of Despair IN> The Angel of Ethnic Badass Weapons Re: IN> IN/Continuum (Repost) Re: IN> Proto-Superior: Perdix, Demon of Despair Re: IN> IN/Continuum (Repost) Re: IN> Proto-Superior: Perdix, Demon of Despair Re: IN> WWIN Resurrection Re: IN> Proto-Superior: Perdix, Demon of Despair Re: IN> Re:Attunements & Rites. Re: IN> Proto-Superiors IN> Re: Time-Travel IN> Re: Scroud's Word Bound IN> Plot hook (sorry) Re: IN> Proto-Superiors Re: IN> The Angel of Ethnic Badass Weapons Re: IN> The Angel of Ethnic Badass Weapons Re: IN> Plot hook (sorry) Re: IN> Consider Fate... Re: IN> Proto-Superior: Perdix, Demon of Despair Re: IN> Plot hook (sorry) Re: IN> IN/Continuum (Repost) Off Topic-sort of Re: IN>Kobal (was Perdix) Re: IN> Re:Attunements & Rites. Re: IN> Proto-Superiors Re: IN> The Angel of Ethnic Badass Weapons Re: IN> The Angel of Ethnic Badass Weapons Re: IN> The Angel of Ethnic Badass Weapons Re: IN>Kobal (was Perdix) Re: IN>Kobal (was Perdix) Re: IN> The Angel of Ethnic Badass Weapons Dark Humor [was Re: IN> Proto-Superior: Perdix, Demon of Despair] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 10:34:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Attunements & Rites My 2 cents: > Jordi: > > Cloak of the Natural World This duplicates the effect of the Celestial Song of Beasts, which is cheaper Essence-wise and doesn't require a prop. > Eyes in the Sky This one I like. One question; does flying animal include insects? > Dragnet I wouldn't make this a separate Attunement -- how about just an expansion to Eyes in the Sky (extra Essence cost, more difficult roll, something like that). > Foul Wound This seems more like a demonic Attunement to me, but I admit that it's a personal bias. > Expanded Rites > > Destroy a place which treats animals cruelly (Jordi might > interpret this > as a laboratory or perhaps a zoo). I like. > Protect a rainforest from interlopers (+4 Essence). I like this even better. > Deliver any type of death to a Servitor of Haagenti, > Magog, Mammon, > Vapula, or Belial (+3 Essence). Haagenti, Belial and Vapula I understand, and Magog I suppose because of the cruelty to animals thing. Why Mammon? > Destroy a machine that adversely affects nature (i.e. > offshore oil rigs, > bulldozers, etc.+2 Essence). Makes perfect sense. > Convince 100 people to take violent action on behalf of > animals. This also seems more demonic to me. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 13:08:26 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Scroud From: "Douglas Muir" > > Day Care Centers* Kronos would very possibly be contending with Scroud for this one - the potential to warp children toward their Fates in a squalid center would be too tempting not to make a bid for, IMO. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 15:23:40 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Proto-Superior: Perdix, Demon of Despair I like this guy. The bit about how he got his Word is a nice touch. The attunements are very good, though I might require the demon to spend a point of Essence for the "Wailing and Weeping" one. Repeated applications might drive humans to madness or suicide. Relations... Saminga should be at least associated. Kobal probably too, as Despair is both a starting and ending point for many of his pranks. Beleth, OTOH, might be hostile if she thinks his Word is too close to hers. Remember, she's not exactly a team player, even by Hell's loose standards; Beleth has more hostiles than any other Prince ("everyone else", in the IN main book), so that should probably be considered her default setting. Oddly enough, my second proto-Superior is a Servitor of Factions. Somewhat different take, though... watch this space. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 14:29:22 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: IN> The Angel of Ethnic Badass Weapons (If you aren't frequenting the .roleplaying forum at Pyramid, no wonder you have no idea where this one came from...) Kyahiel Ofanite of War (formerly of The Sword) Angel of Ethnic Badass Weapons Forces: Corporeal: 6 Strength: 12 Agility: 12 Ethereal: 4 Intelligence: 7 Precision: 9 Celestial: 5 Will: 12 Perception: 8 Word Forces: Vessels: Human male (Multiple ethnic groups)/5 (Charisma +2 [Imposing]) Songs: Form (Corporeal/3, Celestial/5), Healing (Corporeal/6, Celestial/3), Motion (Corporeal/4, Celestial/3), Thunder/3, Tongues (Corporeal/6) Skills: Acrobatics/4, Artistry/2, Climbing/3, Detect Lies/1, Dodge/6, Emote/3, Escape/3, Fighting /6, Languages (Too many to list)/2, Large Weapon/6, Medicine/3, Move Silently/3, Ranged Weapon (Chains)/6, Running/3, Small Weapon/6, Tactics/3, Throwing/6 Attunements: Ofanite of the Sword, Ofanite of War, Seraph of War, Howl, One to One, Sure-Footed, Vassal of War, Friend of the Fighters, Angel of Ethnic Badass Weapons Rites: All War rites Fight a fair and honorable duel Slay an evil creature with an Ethnic Badass Weapon Word Dissonance Conditions: Kyahiel may never fight with a weapon not thought of as Badass. This includes bare-handed fighting when he is in a non-Oriental vessel. Angel of Ethnic Badass Weapons: Adapted from Laurence's Scabbard attunement, Kyahiel can use this to produce any one weapon that is thought of as Badass when weilded by a member of the ethnic group his vessel's appearance matches. Too tired to type up his history right now, but I had to get this one out of my head... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 15:29:19 -0400 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN> IN/Continuum (Repost) THAT was fantastic Jonathan! I loved how you wove this. Very playable and solid concept. I had originally been working on an Archangel of Time and one of Infinity-the parallel universes from GURPS time travel, though from the IN point of view they are the Echoes. They are only reflections of THE Symphony and later it will be realved that they are a type of vessel of the extreme reaches Ethereals which had discovered to make vessels that are universes. Sort of self genereating Essence makers, just not as great as from the main Symphony. The full plotline gets abit wordy (as if this wasn't already). So I too am looking forward to the release of "Narcissist." Thank you for posting/re-posting the Continuum/IN. I really enjoyed them and hope you continue on to the DP of Paradox. Jeffery _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 15:04:33 -0500 From: "Erich S. Arendall" Subject: Re: IN> Proto-Superior: Perdix, Demon of Despair > I like this guy. The bit about how he got his Word is a nice touch. Thank you kindly. :) > The attunements are very good, though I might require the demon to spend a > point of Essence for the "Wailing and Weeping" one. Repeated applications > might drive humans to madness or suicide. Hmm... Probably poor wording on my part, or I'm misunderstanding your meaning. The attunement does cost Essence: 1 per minute of duration for the Wailing and Weeping attunement. > Relations... Saminga should be at least associated. Kobal probably too, as > Despair is both a starting and ending point for many of his pranks. I was troubled about those two. On one hand I could see Saminga being associated, but I was swayed by the classic "I don't want 'em sad, I want 'em dead!" attitude of his. I always forget about Kobal. His word seems so overshadowed by Fate, Media and Factions. Frankly, I'd love to either get rid of the guy, have him redeem, or give him a massive face-lift. IMO, he just doesn't stand up on his own within the current write-ups. > Beleth, OTOH, might be hostile if she thinks his Word is too close to hers. > Remember, she's not exactly a team player, even by Hell's loose standards; > Beleth has more hostiles than any other Prince ("everyone else", in the IN > main book), so that should probably be considered her default setting. Oooh... Good point. I forgot the big smear of jealousy and covetness within her. I've got to keep in mind that Beleth in a Djinn and that means grudges. So, with that light of info in mind,if servitors of Nightmares are working for Despair then it's probably not within Beleth's wishes -- unless she's planted them there to bring Perdix down. > Oddly enough, my second proto-Superior is a Servitor of Factions. Somewhat > different take, though... watch this space. I'm looking quite forward to it.... ...And Moe, please no Proto-Superiors of Ronald. Cordially, Erich S. Arendall "The cow says, 'mooo!'" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 15:08:28 -0500 From: "Erich S. Arendall" Subject: Re: IN> IN/Continuum (Repost) > Okay, inspired by the recent post on multiple Symphonies and reality > jumping in In Nomine, I decided to dig out my old notes and try to do sorta > the same thing from a time travel perspective. And since the only _real_ > way to do RPG time travel (no offense to GURPS, of course) is to do it in > the style of Aetherco's "Continuum" game, I present to you the first (to my > knowledge) rules for In Nomine/Continuum. Really nice, Jonathan! I've not checked out Continuum before, but I could still relate to the rules and the premise in and of itself seems quite nice. ...Great. Another game on my to-buy list. How am I going to finish purchasing the all of the current Doctor Who books at this rate? Cordially, Erich S. Arendall "You can't rule the world in hiding. You've got to come out on the balcony sometimes and wave a tentacle." -Doctor Who ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 21:01:42 +0100 From: "Genevieve Cogman" Subject: Re: IN> Proto-Superior: Perdix, Demon of Despair Two quick notes: (a) Blandine must really, really, really _not_ like this guy. Those who despair have lost all hope. This is . . . not good. (b) I feel that a strong connection with Kobal, or even support from Kobal, might be appropriate here. I always saw Despair as being strongly associated with Dark Humor -- it's the humor that makes you laugh while at the same time giving up all hope of being able to affect the matter, or despairing of yourself ever making a difference. Hey, you might as well laugh -- it's not as if anything you could ever say or do would be able to affect whatever it is. Genevieve ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 16:43:39 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> WWIN Resurrection > Coolness. But I still want to know what's happening with >Mare Imbrium. > >===== >Michael Walton Only two people volunteered to help write, and I only heard back again from one of those, so I pretty much scratched the notion as a group project. I still have it in my personal files as a "Thing to Do When Inspired and not Under Massive Amounts of Coursework." William ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 16:43:51 -0400 From: "Robb Kidd" Subject: Re: IN> Proto-Superior: Perdix, Demon of Despair Genevieve Cogman wrote: > (a) Blandine must really, really, really _not_ like this guy. Those who > despair have lost all hope. This is . . . not good. "Demon make Mistress pout!?! Dream Ogiel SMASH demon!" > (b) I feel that a strong connection with Kobal, or even support from Kobal, > might be appropriate here. I always saw Despair as being strongly associated > with Dark Humor -- it's the humor that makes you laugh while at the same > time giving up all hope of being able to affect the matter, or despairing of > yourself ever making a difference. Hey, you might as well laugh -- it's not > as if anything you could ever say or do would be able to affect whatever it > is. Too true. It's certainly fits the dark side of Laughter. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 16:57:15 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Re:Attunements & Rites. Here's an editing (for conciseness) of something I did as an archaic Choir Attunement (Elohite) for Lightning: Elohim of Lightning Jean's Elohim are incredibly precise in their control and manipulation of electrical currents. Taking 1 second to visualize the object (making a successful Engineering(Electrical) roll) and 1 Essence, they can produce any possible electric device -- batteries included -- known to man or angel. The object remains until the angel ceases to hold it. And some history: This attunement started changing when Eli delegated the sphere of the new, electrically-based inventions to Jean. First, the power for the object was no longer chemically generated, it was created "free." Later, as faster and more complex electrical tools were created, circuits became more predominant in the inventions. With the advent of the computer in human consciousness, Jean took advantage of the possibilities of data storage and communication, so his Elohite attunement came to be what it is today. While any angel with the know-how could create some kind of networking port previously when desired, in recent years the Internet has become so entangled with the idea of computing(information flowing around at Lightning speeds, and other connotations) that the Internet jack is now "standard." In short, Elohim of Lightning could create electrically-powered objects. Computers, without an "automatic" attunement, would have been nigh-on impossible, though. The rest, IMO, are reasonable; the old Seraph display simply wouldn't have been called "holographic." This and the eidetic memory might have had something to do with his taking over some of the responsibilities of Raphael as well. A word on his Rites: Likewise, Jean's basic Rites were probably different. Instead of resting touching the turbine in a power station or plugged into a wall socket, an angel could regenerate Essence by bathing in static electricity for three hours, electrum being useful to generate static charge for this purpose. More active electricity is just more useful, and so replaced static charge as a basic Rite. Earl, in a response, also proposed the Rite "Stand on top of a hill during an electrical storm." If I were Moe, I'd add "wearing copper armor and shouting 'All Ethereal lightning spirits are bastards' (+3 Essence)"... but I'm not. ;^) William ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 19:51:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> Proto-Superiors On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Douglas Muir wrote: > IMO and IMC, a proto-Superior would: > > -- Have at least 15 Forces 15? No way. 18, flat rate, IMO. You have to have maxxed out your current state to be eligible for the state change, it seems to me. > -- Come equipped with a massive arsenal of skills, Songs, and attunements Yes. And they'd have several attunements already, based around their Word, along with perhaps a small handful of proto-Choir-attunements (even though they can't have TRUE Choir attunements until they 'fledge'). > -- would carry a major Word, one with at least the potential of being > upgraded to a Superior Word. Very important, yes. > I've got two or three of these guys sort-of written up. Anyone else have > any thoughts on this? David Edelstein has written up (as a counterpart to Bethanel, AA of Cities, who is very well written and a *staple* of my campaign world) Izrann, Duke of Cities... a demon who isn't a Demon Prince only because he has yet to realize that he just has to realize it himself. He has full Band attunements... but they're only free Roles, so they make sense and don't even bend the rules. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! When you're having a bad day, remember: It takes 42 muscles to frown, but only 4 to pull the trigger of a decent sniper rifle. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 08:55:04 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re: Time-Travel Interesting..... > Therefore, predestination, in the mind of Yves and all of the > servitors of Time, is not a theory but a fact. History itself is a bunch > of predestined events and they have to protect them all, including some > horrors like the Holocaust or Raphael's death in the final battle with > Legion (hello, DeusX!), even though they may devoutly wish those things had > not happened. Uh - can Servitors of Time to ANYTHING other than fight Kronos? If not, what are they for? Otherwise looks fun. James. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 08:36:45 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re: Scroud's Word Bound > *If you don't think "Day Care Centers" should be an Infernal Word, then > you've never stepped inside a bad one. Not only hellish, but fitting right > under both Gluttony and Squalor. > > > Doug M. Sad but true. Nursing Homes would be another Word fitting under both, unfortunately. James. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 19:18:10 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: IN> Plot hook (sorry) In my next-to-last campaign, the PCs made several visits to the Eighth Virtue (the floating "Malakite bar" from _You Are Here_). While there, they several times encountered a Malakite of the Sword, one Vidatsy by name*, who had a hook at the end of his arm. Vidatsy was missing a hand. And it wasn't just his Vessel, either -- Vidatsy had the Crippled Discord at level 3. But the other Malakim treated him, not just with tolerance, but with respect. And whenever the PCs asked what the story was (Discordant Virtues being vanishingly rare IMC), non-Malakim would shrug, and Malakim would get poker-faced and change the subject. The PCs were mildly curious, but nobody ever quite got up the nerve to ask Vidatsy about his Discord directly. And that's a good thing, because I really had no idea what the answer was. I had dropped the one-handed Virtue into the bar on a whim, as an example of a slightly unusual Malakite, and also as a maybe-someday potential... plot hook. But I never actually worked out his backstory. And I never have. One-Hand Vidatsy has stayed in the back of my head for a couple of years now, and I still have no idea how he managed to get that Discord. I don't know why nobody knows the true story but Malakim, and why they won't talk about it. Nor why Laurence hasn't stripped it from him. It's trickier than it sounds. Scars can be a badge of honor for a human, but Discord comes from Dissonance -- and Dissonance, for a Malakite, is always a thing of horror and shame. IMC, the (very rare) Malakim with Discord are viewed by their fellows, and view themselves, as carrying a shameful badge of failure. Their status is noticeably diminished, and they're usually almost obsessive about getting it removed ASAP. Your campaign may be different, of course... but, given these constraints, how can we explain the mysterious Vidatsy? I've never been able to do it. So I'm throwing it open to all comers. Anyone? *If it's any help, "Vidatsy" means something like "Look!" or "You must see!" in various Slavic languages. May be relevant, maybe not. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 19:19:10 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Proto-Superiors >> -- Have at least 15 Forces > >15? No way. 18, flat rate, IMO. You have to have maxxed out your current >state to be eligible for the state change, it seems to me. Plausible, but canon's too fuzzy for me to be sure of this. >full >Band attunements... but they're only free Roles, so they make sense and >don't even bend the rules. I guess that would stick closer to canon, yah. OTOH, from that POV Asmodeus has no Band attunements, and Jordi just barely does. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 23:36:47 From: "Daniel Gallagher" Subject: Re: IN> The Angel of Ethnic Badass Weapons Interesting Idea, I could see a Celt with a claymore, a German with a Zwihander, but what about those ethnicities whose weapons aren’t so badass, like the French, Italians, Swiss, or Canadians. Is it just melee weapons? How about an Israeli with a .50 Desert Eagle? Also, even if he is oriental martial arts shouldn’t count. This word is Ethnic “Weapons”. Daniel Demon Prince of Lurkers “I see the world but it rarely see me.” _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 16:43:01 -0700 From: "Phillip Des Jardins" Subject: Re: IN> The Angel of Ethnic Badass Weapons > Daniel > Demon Prince of Lurkers > "I see the world but it rarely see me." > I think we found our first example of a Skulker Superior. The question is how he got his Princedom without anyone noticing. Of course, I'd love to vist his principality. Fnordia No one seems to know exactly where in Hell this is. It exists, supposedly, as he has to have -somewhere- to keep damned souls and his servitors, but it has yet to be found by anyone who doesn't work for him. Alaemon is *this* close to having a nervous breakdown over the whole thing. Even Lucifer looks a little sheepish when it's brought up. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 20:28:03 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Plot hook (sorry) >So I'm throwing it open to all comers. Anyone? Malakite of the Sword, huh? Early in Laurence's career, says his writeup, he would give very explicit, finely-detailed instructions to Servitors. However, his Dissonance Condition is absolute obedience, so if his intelligence data was off even slightly, the Servitor who had received the instructions might find them *impossible* to fulfill, and thus gain Dissonance. Vidatsy could have been one of those Servitors, given a long-term assignment(reconaissance? Fits with his name...) with several orders, one of which was: "Don't come back to Heaven until [something happens]." He couldn't fulfill the previous orders, but he wouldn't break the last one deliberately, so he kept accumulating Dissonance, and converting it into Discord to keep from going Outcast. Thus, it took a while before somebody wondered where he was, and when they found him... well, there he was. It was a significant event for Laurence. Vidatsy's explanation was one of the catalysts that started him moving toward the orders he uses today, which are looser and allow for some querying and creative interpretation if some of his data is faulty. He was going to strip the Discord, but Vidatsy said: "As a reminder." Laurence nodded, left him with the Discord, and removed the remaining Dissonance. Other Malakim show him respect -- there aren't many angels who can lay claim to having been part of correcting an error of behavior in one of their Choir's Archangels -- but keep quiet about it with outsiders. Laurence's past errors are his own, and Vidatsy's choice was his, and if someone really needs to know what happened, that someone can find out; but otherwise they protect their Choir. >Doug M. William ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 17:35:20 -0700 From: "Phillip Des Jardins" Subject: Re: IN> Consider Fate... > A secondary consequence: Yves will never Fall, nor Kronos Redeem. They > _can't_. It never will hasn't have happened, ever. > > > Thoughts? Actually, it reminded me of one of my more bizarre ideas. It has been said before that Yves and Kronos are God's Destiny and Fate, respectively. Well, if this is the case, then -neither of them exist yet-. Why? Because God (that is to say in my opinion the Symphony in its most palpable manifestation) has met neither His Destiny nor His Fate. And thus Yves and Kronos are not entities but rather possibilities. Possibilities so powerful that they seem for all intents and purposes to exist as beings, but mere possibilities nonetheless. If Gods Destiny or Fate were to be actualised, however, then that manifestation would truly exist, at the same time ceasing to exist as an individual so much as a background theme of the Symphony as a whole, constantly making its presence known in every note. The other, on the other hand, would simply cease to exist, a possibility unfulfilled. But that's just another way of looking at it. I have to say I'm gaining a lot of interest in the 'Kronos as the Metatron' idea, though. Phillip, Mercurian of Novalis The Happy Shiny Mercurian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 23:57:41 -0400 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN> Proto-Superior: Perdix, Demon of Despair I always forget about Kobal. His word seems so overshadowed by Fate, Media and Factions. Frankly, I'd love to either get rid of the guy, have him redeem, or give him a massive face-lift. IMO, he just doesn't stand up on his own within the current write-ups. I agree, 100%. My roommate and I had been racking our brians to find a way to use him. Really, by now we just acknowledge he is there and I am amazed when I read how he is used in the books. Jeffery _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 21:02:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Plot hook (sorry) - --- "William J. Keith" wrote: > >So I'm throwing it open to all comers. Anyone? > > Malakite of the Sword, huh? Congrats, dude: you just put a spoke in any urge that I might have had to come up with a reason for the scenario. Yours works too well ... and, as I'm a lazy sort of person, I see no reason why I shouldn't nod and state, "What he said". :) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 06/05/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 00:03:53 -0400 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN> IN/Continuum (Repost) Off Topic-sort of ..Great. Another game on my to-buy list. How am I going to finish >purchasing the all of the current Doctor Who books at this rate? > >Cordially, >Erich S. Arendall >"You can't rule the world in hiding. You've got to come out on the balcony >sometimes and wave a tentacle." -Doctor Who Great! Another Dr. Who fan. Eric, there is a RPG that is linked from the Continuum site to Time Wars, that has a Gallifreyan-like race in that game. Beside Continuum, it is probably the best gamable time travel RPG out there. In case you don't want to go all the way to Continuum and find that link, here it is: http://ads.fortunecity.com/RealMedia/ads/adstream_sx.ads/net/locale@x32 Now back to this marvelous game of In Nomie. Jeffery _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 00:06:58 -0400 From: Patrick Ley Subject: Re: IN>Kobal (was Perdix) Jeffery Watkins wrote: > I always forget about Kobal. His word seems so overshadowed by Fate, Media > and Factions. Frankly, I'd love to either get rid of the guy, have him > redeem, or give him a massive face-lift. IMO, he just doesn't stand up on > his own within the current write-ups. > > I agree, 100%. My roommate and I had been racking our brians to find a way > to use him. Really, by now we just acknowledge he is there and I am amazed > when I read how he is used in the books. > The essence of Dark Humor is that Kobal is out to amuse himself. He is willing to hurt kill and ruin to do so. In the Game that is Hell's worldview unlike everyone else, Kobal _isn't_ out to win. He is out to amuse himself everything else including the game, including the universe be damned Patrick Ley Kyrio of That Guy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 21:11:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Re:Attunements & Rites. - --- "William J. Keith" wrote: > Earl, in a response, also proposed the Rite "Stand > on top of a hill during > an electrical storm." If I were Moe, I'd add > "wearing copper armor and > shouting 'All Ethereal lightning spirits are > bastards' (+3 Essence)"... but > I'm not. ;^) Oh, like I'm the only person that reads Terry Pratchett around here. Seriously, I'd include "Perform a scientific experiment in public" as a Rite for medieval/early modern campaigns. Galileo doublechecking gravity, Franklin's Kite Flying*, that sort of thing. Moe *Both sites would make good Tethers; the second would be cumulative with the electrical storm thing. ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 06/05/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 21:15:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Proto-Superiors - --- Douglas Muir wrote: > > >> -- Have at least 15 Forces > > > >15? No way. 18, flat rate, IMO. You have to have > maxxed out your current > >state to be eligible for the state change, it seems > to me. > > Plausible, but canon's too fuzzy for me to be sure > of this. Heh. I'm working on something that assumes that, as a human, Lilith only has 15 personal Forces* (as opposed to Forces that came with the State Change), but for celestials I think that 18's a good call. Moe *And that she hasn't really _used_ her body in 20,000 years (which would mean that she's still digesting her last meal as a human), but I digress. ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 06/05/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 23:19:02 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> The Angel of Ethnic Badass Weapons From: "Daniel Gallagher" > Interesting Idea, I could see a Celt with a claymore, a German with a > Zwihander, but what about those ethnicities whose weapons aren’t so badass, > like the French, Italians, Swiss, or Canadians. Is it just melee weapons? > How about an Israeli with a .50 Desert Eagle? Also, even if he is oriental > martial arts shouldn’t count. This word is Ethnic “Weapons”. The martial arts reference was largely in honor of Barney "These hands are certified lethal weapons" Fife, who just doesn't get enough RPG references in my opinion. :) And the Italian Ethnic Badass Weapon would actually be a pair of weapons, namely rapier and main-gauche, since the Florentine fighting style would (at least IMO) qualify. And as for the ethnicities whose weapons aren't badass, or are firearms? He never models his vessel to look like them. He's a melee and throwing weapon purist. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 23:19:02 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> The Angel of Ethnic Badass Weapons From: "Daniel Gallagher" > Interesting Idea, I could see a Celt with a claymore, a German with a > Zwihander, but what about those ethnicities whose weapons aren’t so badass, > like the French, Italians, Swiss, or Canadians. Is it just melee weapons? > How about an Israeli with a .50 Desert Eagle? Also, even if he is oriental > martial arts shouldn’t count. This word is Ethnic “Weapons”. The martial arts reference was largely in honor of Barney "These hands are certified lethal weapons" Fife, who just doesn't get enough RPG references in my opinion. :) And the Italian Ethnic Badass Weapon would actually be a pair of weapons, namely rapier and main-gauche, since the Florentine fighting style would (at least IMO) qualify. And as for the ethnicities whose weapons aren't badass, or are firearms? He never models his vessel to look like them. He's a melee and throwing weapon purist. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 21:20:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> The Angel of Ethnic Badass Weapons - --- Daniel Gallagher wrote: > How about an Israeli with a .50 Desert Eagle? I think that a tank would be more appropriate.* :) Moe *Well, you did say 'Badass'. ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 06/05/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 00:20:38 -0400 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN>Kobal (was Perdix) >The essence of Dark Humor is that Kobal is out to amuse himself. He is >willing to hurt kill and ruin to do so. In the Game that is Hell's >worldview unlike everyone else, Kobal _isn't_ out to win. He is out to >amuse himselfeverything else including the game, including the universe be >damned > > >Patrick Ley >Kyrio of That Guy First off, thanks for responding to the indirect plea for help. Second, if I understand you correctly to use Kobal properly everything he does should be end up in or being a joke? I can pass this on to my roommate, I unfortunately, am not a good joke teller/deviser so Kobal will unfortunately be regulated to the background. Though can anyone on the list devise a scenario in which he redeems, like one person did for Belial? Thanks in advance. Jeffery _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 00:04:06 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN>Kobal (was Perdix) Jeffery Watkins wrote: > First off, thanks for responding to the indirect plea for help. Second, if I> understand you correctly to use Kobal properly everything he does should be> end up in or being a joke? I can pass this on to my roommate, I> unfortunately, am not a good joke teller/deviser so Kobal will unfortunately> be regulated to the background. Yes, everything he does will end up being part of a joke, but not necessarily a FUNNY joke. At least, not to anyone but him. Kobal thinks humans exist to be the butt of jokes -- what he finds amusing is anything that humiliates people or brings out the worst in humanity. He finds Jerry Springer hilarious. He finds all the hypocritical talking monkeys who watch Jerry Springer thinking that they're better than Springer's guests even more hilarious. A priest who was a pillar of the community exposed as a serial child molester? Now that's entertainment! Kobal isn't about laughter. He's about nasty, mean-spirited, humiliating mockery that hurts, offends, and traumatizes. He's an intellectual bully who rarely gets his own hands dirty -- it's so much funnier to manipulate others into dancing to his tune. Where Kobal is involved, you should expect to see people getting hurt in cruelly ironic ways, and then he'll show up afterwards with a smirk to rub salt in your wounds. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 02:01:42 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> The Angel of Ethnic Badass Weapons > > How about an Israeli with a .50 Desert Eagle? > > I think that a tank would be more appropriate.* > *Well, you did say 'Badass'. I'm thinking Sling of David short-range ballistic missile. Oh, like the Israelis ever do anything halfway. ;) - -- Casca ("Now exiting Silliness; next stop, Absurdity.") ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 05:21:10 -0400 From: "S.D." Subject: Dark Humor [was Re: IN> Proto-Superior: Perdix, Demon of Despair] >>I always forget about Kobal. His word seems so overshadowed by Fate, Media >>and Factions. Frankly, I'd love to either get rid of the guy, have him >>redeem, or give him a massive face-lift. IMO, he just doesn't stand up on >>his own within the current write-ups. > >I agree, 100%. My roommate and I had been racking our brians to find a way >to use him. Really, by now we just acknowledge he is there and I am amazed >when I read how he is used in the books. The best summary of Kobal himself and his Word that I've seen yet is from a script/trial by the players and GM for 'Fiat Justitia'. (This is in my own opinion, and yes I own Superiors 2. *And* The Final Trumpet. So I have both the official writeups of Kobal.) You ought to read this in full, at: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~zenith/in-nomine/kobal-trial.html but I'll quote the major part here. This is a bit long, so be warned. *** Daimon: [Folds his hands at the base of his back, and looks contemplative.] My Lord, can you outline for the Court what your Word means and how it furthers the power of Hell? Kobal: Humor is the spark that divides humans from animals -- souls from minds. A man whose life is lived in utter cold seriousness, who tortures young children and burns down forests, has no soul at all; but if even once he looks down at one young child in the throes of agony and laughs, he becomes a font of corruption and decay, essence and Forces dedicated to Hell. That is one half of my Word: the dark side of bright humor. The other half is the bright humor of a dark life, the laughter t hat is all a soul -- or a demon -- can hold on to in Hell. Laughter that appreciates horrors, or pain, or despair, but does not cause them. Without it, Hell would spiral so far into the darkness that not even Lucifer could reach the Earth. Daimon: [Beginning to pace slowly.] So, my Lord, we require humor to really allow humans to become lasting monsters, and to keep Hell from getting so sick it spins into the cold darkness forever. How do you apply your Word to the Corporeal w orld above? Kobal: I teach the humans to laugh at others. I teach them to laugh at horrors. On the one hand, it brings them release in their darkest hours -- but this gift does not affect the destination of any soul. And on the other hand, it teaches them all that the pain of others, that the horrible things in the world, that the fires of Belial and the callous lusts of Andrealphus and the dooms of Kronos and the mutations of Vapula and the twisted mind games of that Djinn fellow are all -- just fine. Fun. Someone else's problem. Not something that should be fixed. Daimon: So you further the aims of Hell by teaching the humans to simply accept that they are going to Hell and there is nothing else they can do? You help them to accept their loss of hope? Kobal: Oh, no. I help them to accept that _everybody else_ is going to Hell. Daimon: [Stops, nods, and resumes pacing.] So you spread acceptance of other's fate. You teach them to mock other's pain and embarrassment. You teach them that the way the world is going to Hell is just fine, and, is in fact, just material f or another good joke? Kobal: I believe you have the gist of it. Daimon: [Stops pacing again.] Thank you, my Lord. Would you consider your Word to be just as pervasive, just as harmful, just as powerful in furthering the machinations of Hell as, say, for example, Lust, or Factions, or even the Game? Kobal: Does the Game further the cause of Hell? Daimon: It certainly believes it does. Asmodeus: [Scowls. Scribbles a few notes.] Kobal: [Smiling.] I have Fallen once out of Pride, Daimonique, and I fear that if I did so again, I would fall out of the universe altogether. Still, that considered -- is not Pride intertwined on all levels with laughter and dismissal of others? And is not Pride the first of all sins, that brings slaughter, war, atrocities, blasphemy, and which, long ago, brought on the Fall of the Archangel of Light? -- Daimonique, it sometimes seems to me that my Word is the very keystone and cornerstone of Hell. Funny, huh?" Daimon: [Swallows hard.] Yes, sir. Quite ironic, I would say." [Spends a moment pulling himself together.] Would you say, My Lord, that being a Word which does not require the immediate death of many humans at once, but instead requires a ce rtain amount of survivable pain, that it has a 'lasting effect' on human history and the human psyche as a whole? Kobal: I remember when humans thought 'a bad thing' was pissing in someone else's cave. If they can make jokes about genocide and nuclear catastrophe today, then I think I must say yes. Daimon: My Lord, you have been accused of High Treason, yet you claim to be the 'cornerstone of Hell'. Can you please outline for the court your ongoing argument with the Game? Kobal: Certainly. Asmodeus is afraid that if any of Hell's other demons have the least bit of brightness in their life, he will start feeling sorry for himself again. Asmodeus: [Glares at Kobal. He's barely restraining himself.] Daimon: [Purses his lips together, and stands silent for a moment.] Brightness, my Lord? Kobal: Asmodeus has attempted to focus this trial on complaints against my operation on Earth, but it is not my operation on Earth that he objects to. It is the other side of my Word, humor in a dark life, which is most apparent in Hell itself. This is also, as you are aware, his power base. If demons live their lives with nothing but fear, sorrow, loathing, hatred, and all the songs of darkness, they are vulnerable to apathy -- to reaching the point where there is nothing to strive for, whe re not even momentary satisfaction is possible. Then they are useless to Hell, and may even go over to Heaven. I have made my small contribution to reducing the Sloth in Hell, but ... It is an ongoing job. Daimon: So you contend, sir, that you are the 'grease' in the metaphorical 'gears' of Hell. Kobal: Again, I believe you have the gist of it. *** The only things I can add to this are 1: Kobal values intelligence above all else in a Servitor. All else, except creativity. (Which has led to the idea that he used to work for Eli...) 2: Kobal is the court jester of Hell. Lucifer lets him get away with quite a bit. Asmodeus *hates* him over this, and Comedians will risk a great deal if it means they can humiliate Gamesters. 3: As the Superiors writeup states, he's become increasingly jaded over the years. It's harder and harder to get a smirk out of Kobal, much less actual *laughter*. He is therefore willing to go further and further to amuse himself, and if the campaign's dim enough, he won't care *who* gets caught up in the aftermath. 4: Again c/o the Superiors writeup...Kobal is effectively the demonic PCs' version of Eli, if you need him to be. As long as you can rationalize the current adventure amusing or interesting him in some way, you've got a perfect source of odd artifacts (it's mentioned that he's got almost anything in his citadel), 'background' help, and just token Superior appearances. And there's always that Mission from God he's been rumored to have, as well as his Ultimate Joke... Frankly, Kobal's one of my favorite Superiors on either side. (The others including Marc, Lilith, and Yves. Guess what character type I like most... ^_^) The only things that're keeping me from playing a Servitor of his are that the Band Attunements aren't worth the tradeoff in dissonance conditions and normal rites (though the expanded Servitor Attunements are fairly interesting) and that I've already got an interesting Windy character idea written up. Make a few changes, and I'd work for him in a heartbeat; make him Laughter, and I'd work for him even faster... ~S.D. Ryukage http://fly.to/sd_nexus ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ All I know for sure is that I'm sitting here in this blackness alone and my mind is thudding inside my skull and I hate everything and I can't remember where my smile got to. Xellos Metallium, 'Gradual Madness' (And, strangely, I can see this working for an introspective Kobal piece. Hmm...fiction ideas...) ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2312 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.