From owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Mon Oct 27 15:57:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA21871 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 15:57:25 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id PAA26775 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 15:26:54 -0600 Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 15:26:54 -0600 Message-Id: <199710272126.PAA26775@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #439 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@LISTS.IO.COM Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, October 27 1997 Volume 01 : Number 439 In this digest: Re: IN> [Dark Victory] Media Malakim Re: IN> Breaking Hearts and Minds Re: IN> Query : Where is Gabriel's volcano? Re: IN> Heaven and Hell (brief review) Re: IN> [DV] Monster Sampling in DV Re: IN> [DV] PLACES: The Holy City of Rio de Janeiro IN> Re Chiliasm IN> [Fluff] Book Review Re: Re: IN> Breaking Hearts and Minds Re: IN> [DV] PLACES: The Holy City of Rio de Janeiro Re: IN> [Dark Victory] Media Malakim Re: IN> [DV] Monster Sampling in DV Re: IN> [Dark Victory] Media Malakim Re: IN> Story : Masquerade Re: IN> Re Chiliasm Re: IN> Breaking Hearts and Minds Re: IN> [Fluff] Book Review Re: IN> Heaven and Hell (brief review) Re: IN> Story : Masquerade IN> Guardian Angels Re: IN> [Dark Victory] Media Malakim Re: IN> Story : Masquerade Re: IN> [Fluff] Book Review Re: IN> [DV] Well... what next? + Fluff Re: IN> Story : Masquerade Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Bright Victory? Re: IN> Two questions.. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 10:25:49 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> [Dark Victory] Media Malakim Redneck Gaijin wrote: > Nice ideas, but I keep seeing the following little viginette:... I said *enemy* propaganda. And that still leaves enemy saboteurs and verbal combat. This also depends on how much latitude you give Malakim characters. If they're anatomy consists entirely of itchy trigger finger, then yeah, they're not much use. In this setting or any other. That's why I keep suggesting James Bond or D'Artagnan as alternate role models for Malakim. Of course, if you WANT to disallow Malakim of Communications for some reason, fine. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 09:10:00 -0500 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Breaking Hearts and Minds > What I want to know is, is there any possible way to break someone > ELSE's heart? (On this thread, I seem to recall someone suggesting that a > Malakim showing up in the big Heart warehouse could break their own and > probably quite a few others before being taken down, but...COULD they > break anyone else's?) > As I understand the canon, the answer is an absolute `not', but I > don't quite like that...Actually, my general feeling is, if you get hold > of someone's Heart, it should be possible not only to find them, but to > Soul-Kill 'em. {Not EASY, but possible. I think Hearts should be more > than constantly active Songs of Attraction...} It should be possible to break someone else's heart with the right effort. It's _not_ possible to kill them with just the heart. The heart, while connected to a celestial, is more of a 'beacon' for their forces rather than an integral part of their being. (Why would any DP have renegades if killing them from afar was this simple?) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 09:34:11 -0500 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Query : Where is Gabriel's volcano? > This seems to suggest that Gabriel's volcano lies somewhere between Heaven > and Blandine's Tower / the Marches. > > This seems to suggest that Gabriel's volcano is entirely the other side of > Heaven from Blandine's Tower. > > I can accept that Heavenly topology may be so weird that both cases can be > true at the same time, and beyond our mortal understanding. Would anybody > else care to comment? I just took it as a fact that the terms 'distance' and 'position' have entirely different meanings in heaven. This allows one a certain... freedom... when writing descriptions, to be sure! ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 09:07:36 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Heaven and Hell (brief review) > :( > They are almost completely useless to me, as are adventures and almost > all adventure seeds. Yet In Nomine supplements are stuffed to the gills > with such things and I cannot get the expanded superior write-ups without > paying for the other materials as well. Putting my cards on the table, I > have simply stopped buying the Revelations Cycle. Much of the material > was interesting, but too much was waste-paper for me. > > Greg. > We seem to have this argument off an on, back and forth, everytime a new sourcebook comes out. Myself, I write my entire campaign from scratch, and I'll be doing a good piece of plotting tonight, which means using everything but adventure seeds and pregenerated NPCs from the books. I have zero interest in, say, Furfur, or Texas when my entire game is set in South Eastern Michigan. For my uses, those have been completely useless and changes to the universe have been more then detremental to my vision. So do I wish it was all just left out? Yes. I just don't use stuff, and I have veto power over my group on what is or isn't. And that power gets used ALOT. BUT... some of it has, on the other hand, been useful. Is the entire add on to the Marches useful? Yes, in ways. I don't have to build something that isn't going to be heavily used (except for... oh, nevermind. :) ). Are the Soldier rules useful to me? Yes. So it's not a total waste. So it's a give and take. When I plunk down my $15, it's with deep fear for my own sanity. I'm probably going to froth at the mouth when books coming out do make it out, and wander around ranting for a while. Would it would be great if the adventures just went into modules and the rules stayed in rule expansions and people could buy what they wanted like the Shadowrun expansions? Yes. But hey, I'm not in charge there. And remember, you vote for the format you like with your checkbook. :) - - Em, Balseraph on the MOVE ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 09:39:27 -0500 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> [DV] Monster Sampling in DV Since Vapula now has free reign on earth (for the most part), we might seem some grotesque animal/human or human/machine hybrids wandering around. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 09:45:11 -0500 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> [DV] PLACES: The Holy City of Rio de Janeiro > > Wait a minute: Petrobras (the national oil company) is presently the word main > producer of oil from deep waters, with more than 300.000 barrels of oil/day > flowing from its wells in the Campos Basin - in the sea just outside Rio. It's one > third of the country's daily production. Sure, it would still be hold by the > military, but I think that there would be some available to the population - yet > at outrageous prices... It depends on how many are just big torches now, rather than active oil wells! ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 11:09:05 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> Re Chiliasm PERRY M. LLOYD wrote: > If I've opened a can of worms that you don't want to deal with, > then... uh... sorry. But, Laurence and Dominic _do_ favor > Christianity... :) But the coming of the Messiah and the Day of Judgement are not specifically Christian. Christianity inherited them from Judaism, and the expectation of the Messiah and the World to Come was a part of standard Judaism for centuries and still is except for the more liberal branches. Even Islam expects the coming of a messiah (called the Maddhi, if I recall correctly). IN literature dances around the Messiah idea because it pushes the Christianity-specific hot-button with so many readers, but the idea is not, in fact, Christian-specific (and of course certainly not Christian-original). Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 10:16:02 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: IN> [Fluff] Book Review There has been some banter about resources and the like, so I thought I'd contribute a bit. I just finished last night reading "THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO THE SON" by Norman Mailer. It's the first person view of the New Testament through the eyes of Jesus Christ. Now, this is a painful read. It is difficult, dry, and it would be funner to be staked out and eaten alive by a hoarde of red ants. But... * The characterization of Satan when Jesus goes off to sit on his mountain and fast for 40 days is excellent. Mailer does an excellent job of showing the slick, persuasive nature of Evil and how simple it is just to accept it. * The characterization of Judas is also excellent. Again, it shows the nature of evil... betrayal this time, and all that other good stuff. ... and if you are going with an Eli is Christ motif in your game, it's very interesting to have a first person view of what it feels like to have people grabbing you constantly begging for miracles, having to deal with apostles who don't really believe you are who you claim you are, and the hatred of your peers. "I'm the Son of God. Really. Look, I can heal you. What do you mean, you don't believe me?" It's an excellent resource for In Nomine if you need some good first person miracles. Lessee... while I'm on the topic, what other books can I recommend? * JOB: A COMEDY OF JUSTICE by Robert Heinlein is a good choice. I've just started this really bizarre book called "WICKED: The Tale of the Wicked Witch of the West." It's about the nature of evil. I'm a big 20 pages into it, but the topic and the point of the book may be relevant here. **** On a completely different topic, there was talk somewhat about good, evil, and free will. For that, I HIGHLY recommend A CLOCKWORK ORANGE by Burgess. Not the movie... NOT THE MOVIE! Yes, I know it's a difficult read. Yes, I know it is a pain. But for conversations about the nature of what is evil and what constitues Free Will you can't beat it. :) One of my demons is facing this right now, in the form of 'Forced Redemption' from the player characters, one way or another. (They are under the impression you can give a demon the 'redeem or die' choice, and it will come out to their satisfaction.) Is it really GOOD for the angels to strap a demon into a chair, show them the 'error of their ways', and force them to feel guilt and redeem simply because it's acceptable to their moral standards? And when you are done, what happens to the newly redeemed individual when they are set loose? Doesn't their own personal demons come back? Is it fair to remove their free will to do whatever they want simply to make them acceptable to community standards? So it's something to think about. I have pondered deeply. Emily K. Dresner, M.S.Eng. Applications Programmer III and Balseraph of the Game Desktop Applications Team - Medical Center Information Technology Current Quote: "We care a lot about the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines about the NY, SF, and LAPD about you people, about your guns about the War you're fighting gee, that looks like fun." - "We Care Alot", Faith No More ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 10:29:29 -0500 (EST) From: IQJason@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: IN> Breaking Hearts and Minds John Karakash: "It should be possible to break someone else's heart with the right effort." As if this was ever in doubt. ;) yours, don't go breakin' my heart, - -J ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 09:36:17 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> [DV] PLACES: The Holy City of Rio de Janeiro > Well, I felt kinda obligated to reply this. I was *born* in Rio, after all... > >Redneck Gaijin wrote: > >> The fires burn on in the Amazon, plants and animals strike back against the >> lonely substinence farmers on the edge of the wilds, and creatures of the >> night roam the wide empty places... > > The image is good, although The Amazon stays a good 3.000 km away from Rio... > I know. I was referring to the South American continent as a whole. >> Most of the >> older, smoky cars and outboard-motor boats are being cannibalized for raw >> materials, since what little fuel which comes in from Caracas City-state or >> from Arabia > > Wait a minute: Petrobras (the national oil company) is presently the word main >producer of oil from deep waters, with more than 300.000 barrels of oil/day >flowing from its wells in the Campos Basin - in the sea just outside Rio. It's one >third of the country's daily production. Sure, it would still be hold by the >military, but I think that there would be some available to the population - - yet >at outrageous prices... Ah. Brazil isn't known as a major oil exporter here in America, so I didn't know. However, I ask, are there -refineries- within Rio or a few miles out? Crude oil isn't good for much by itself... >> Rio is special in that it contains one of the five claimants of the title of >> Pope in the Roman Catholic Church. > > Right, Rio is a very catholic city (have you seen the two million people in >Pope John Paul II's last visit's service??) and the head of the church there *do* >has political power. All of America south of the Rio Grande is a very Catholic city. }:-{D >> Pope Paolo (Paul) > > Paulo? Paulo corresponds to 'Paul', in portuguese. Unless you actually >intended to give it a roman (italian) sounding... Pope Paolo di Brasil probably is >called here as Papa Paulo do Brasil. Thanks for the corrections. I know enough Spanish to know it isn't Portugese, but not any Portugese itself, so I was guessing. > What the heck, it's a fairly good sketch of pos-apocalyptic Rio!! I may well >use it in my campaign... As soon as I fill in the details... Thumbs up for you, >Redneck! I left out the finer details because I've never been to Rio myself. I'll leave them to the natives. }:-{D Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 10:37:44 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> [Dark Victory] Media Malakim >Redneck Gaijin wrote: > >> Nice ideas, but I keep seeing the following little viginette:... > >I said *enemy* propaganda. And that still leaves enemy saboteurs >and verbal combat. > >This also depends on how much latitude you give Malakim characters. >If they're anatomy consists entirely of itchy trigger finger, then >yeah, they're not much use. In this setting or any other. That's >why I keep suggesting James Bond or D'Artagnan as alternate role >models for Malakim. James Bond would make a horrible Malakim. He's a spy. Honor is something either fluid or nonexistent for him. As for D'Artagnan, had he had the power of a Malakim, Cardinal Richeilieu (sic) wouldn't have lived long enough to give him his commission- which would pose a problem for Alexandre Dumat (damn, I can't spell today). >Of course, if you WANT to disallow Malakim of Communications for >some reason, fine. Not really. I don't like excluding Choirs or Bands- it seems like a copout to me. But I haven't seen a workable way for Malakim to promote 'the Media' or 'Communications.' Attacking propogandists isn't enough, really, and it leads to conflict of interest; propoganda is inherently evil no matter which side is using it. That's a good chunk of why Nybbas isn't Redeeming. No, the Malakim need something constructive to do, something which promotes the Word. I really liked the idea of Malakim being action heroes... except how many 'Surname: Texas Ranger' shows could you have at one time? }:-{D Something like that would work... maybe Malakim as stuntmen... hmmm... Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 10:40:21 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> [DV] Monster Sampling in DV > > Since Vapula now has free reign on earth (for the most >part), we might seem some grotesque animal/human or human/machine >hybrids wandering around. > We might indeed. Jerseys are an example of the former; the latter gives one a chance to play off cyberpunk. Redneck (Dark Victory: Tank Police - coming soon to an Apocalypse near you) Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 13:26:40 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> [Dark Victory] Media Malakim Redneck Gaijin wrote: > James Bond would make a horrible Malakim. He's a spy. Honor is > something either fluid or nonexistent for him. I meant something more like Bond's style than his policies. Substitute John Steed & Mrs. Peel, then. > As for D'Artagnan, had he had the power of a Malakim, Cardinal > Richeilieu (sic) wouldn't have lived long enough to give him his > commission If D'Artagnan had been a Malakite, I suppose Richelieu would have been a deep-cover Balseraph -- or maybe Impudite -- and more equal to the occasion. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 13:29:56 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Story : Masquerade Bravo! Loved the moods. Beth, if you take votes, I nominate this one for the archives. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 12:38:11 EST From: "PERRY M. LLOYD" Subject: Re: IN> Re Chiliasm [PERRY] > If I've opened a can of worms that you don't want to deal with, > then... uh... sorry. But, Laurence and Dominic _do_ favor > Christianity... :) [Earl] >But the coming of the Messiah and the Day of Judgement are not >specifically Christian. Christianity inherited them from Judaism, >and the expectation of the Messiah and the World to Come was a >part of standard Judaism for centuries and still is except for the >more liberal branches. Even Islam expects the coming of a messiah >(called the Maddhi, if I recall correctly). > >IN literature dances around the Messiah idea because it pushes the >Christianity-specific hot-button with so many readers, but the idea >is not, in fact, Christian-specific (and of course certainly not >Christian-original). Couldn't agree with you more. Since Laurence and Dominic favor Christianity, I've taken a more or less Christian outlook on it. I am aware that there are other takes on it, but, being lazy slug I am, I've not yet persued these avenues... ooohhh that sounded good, I've not yet persued these avenues... Yup. - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd "Yes, you can stay in the same guy for nine years and rack up so much discord that your Celestial Form looks like the kind of thing Saminga scrapes off the underside of his feet, but that makes it so much harder to do anything if you're murderous, vulnerable to cheese, deathly afraid of the color blue, and your host glows in the dark." -Nana Yaw Ofori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 11:01:37 -0700 (MST) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Breaking Hearts and Minds > > As I understand the canon, the answer is an absolute `not', but I > > don't quite like that...Actually, my general feeling is, if you get hold > > of someone's Heart, it should be possible not only to find them, but to > > Soul-Kill 'em. {Not EASY, but possible. I think Hearts should be more > > than constantly active Songs of Attraction...} > the right effort. It's _not_ possible to kill them with just the > heart. The heart, while connected to a celestial, is more of a > 'beacon' for their forces rather than an integral part of their I wasn't so much thinking you could just hang out by the Heart and do it...more that if you HAD someone's Heart, and brought it along, their Vessel wouldn't protect them, because you've got a way to go deeper than that...as it stands, a Heart has very little to do with the Celestial personally...it's just kind of a souped up homing device. AA's and DP's get glass bubbles and give them Corporeal Form, Light, and Celestial Attraction. {'Course, the Marches just jumped way up in my esteem of importance last night when I noticed the paragraph explaining how easy it is to Soul Kill -anyone-, even humans, there.} ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 10:53:29 -0700 (MST) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> [Fluff] Book Review > I just finished last night reading "THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO THE SON" by > Norman Mailer. It's the first person view of the New Testament through > the eyes of Jesus Christ. Now, this is a painful read. It is difficult, "Well, it's a big, black book.." > I've just started this really bizarre book called "WICKED: The Tale of the > Wicked Witch of the West." It's about the nature of evil. I'm a big 20 Sounds interesting...let me know how it shapes up when you get further in.. MaBarry suggests _Illusions_, by Richard Bach; it's kind of a treatise on how to be a Messiah, if, by chance, you haven't read it... For my own part, I can't QUITE recommend _Satan, His Psychotherapy And Cure By the Unfortunate Dr. Kessler, JSPS_, because while it has a great name and the bits that actually pertain to that are amusing, the rest of it's lousy...and it really is -BITS- that have anything to do with the title. (Though I do like the "JSPS" as a term for Celestials to use regarding humans they're mucking with; stands for "Just Some Poor Schmuck.") > redeemed individual when they are set loose? Doesn't their own personal > demons come back? Is it fair to remove their free will to do whatever > they want simply to make them acceptable to community standards? > So it's something to think about. I have pondered deeply. "What're we going to do tonight, Em?" "Same thing we do every night, Lintking. Try to spread angst to the world!" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 13:15:02 -0500 (EST) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> Heaven and Hell (brief review) On Mon, 27 Oct 1997, Emily Dresner wrote: > > > :( > > We seem to have this argument off an on, back and forth, everytime a new > sourcebook comes out. I should point out that I wasn't intending to argue that SJG *shouldn't* do this or that its objectively bad in some sense. I was just saying, in responce to someone's question, that such things are of little use to me. > > Myself, I write my entire campaign from scratch, Ditto. > BUT... some of it has, on the other hand, been useful. Is the entire add > on to the Marches useful? Yes, in ways. Agreed - although it is a shame to have to buy it to get the write-up of Yves. > I don't have to build something > that isn't going to be heavily used (except for... oh, nevermind. :) ). > Are the Soldier rules useful to me? Yes. Indeed. > So it's not a total waste. Agreed. Just enough of a waste (for me). :( > > But hey, I'm not in charge there. And remember, you vote for the > format you like with your checkbook. :) True. I've never been less pleased to cast a vote. :/ It's a great game, but I can't afford it... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 18:31:51 GMT From: maya@tcp.co.uk (GR Cogman) Subject: Re: IN> Story : Masquerade > >Not bad. My only problem is that the story has Laurence and Michael looking >like a couple of dunces, not being able to recognize anybody when the masks >and actions of most of the people are a dead giveaway. Laurence and Michael weren't that dumb: they were attempting to gather information rather than just charge then and there. And there were a _lot_ of humans present: it was a big ball, not just a Superiors-only. >Thanks for the fun... though I could wish for better wordwrap. }:-{D Yes, sorry about that. Not sure what happened. >Redneck Maya - --- Maya, Elohim of Eli in service to Blandine maya@tcp.co.uk - -- "There are those who say that wizards are subject to temptations and addictions beyond the understanding of ordinary men: the addiction to shape-changing, or to meditation under the influence of certain herbs and conditions of the stars; the obsession with knowledge, and the development of power. Yet this is not so. Temptation is temptation, obsession is obsession, and choice is choice." - Isar Chelladan, Precepts of Wizardry. -- "Dog Wizard", Barbara Hambly. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 12:41:10 -0600 (CST) From: CyberSavant Subject: IN> Guardian Angels Hello All. Just recently saw a birthday card with the Guardian Angels for each month specified on it. I will provide the info off the card for all. Can anyone tell me where the company found this info? thanks Guardian Angel 1994 Treasures and Trinkets, Inc Manchester, CT barcode of card ---> [7] 52020 00230 [4] Gabriel January Barchiel Feb Machidiel Mar Asmodel Apr Ambriel May Muriel Jun Verchiel Jul Hamaliel Aug Uriel Sep Barbiel Oct Adnachiel Nov Hanael Dec thanks _._. _.__ _... . ._. ... ._ ..._ ._ __ _ CyberSavant, Matrix Guide ,:\ /:. Mail: aa308@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca // .\_()_/. \\ cybersavant@dlcwest.com || ..| |.. || || ..| |.. || WWW : http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~aa308/index.html || ..|____|.. || http://www.dlcwest.com/~cybersavant \\ ./ || \. // `:/ || \:' <\ || - -=========================={+|XXXXXX@ || [Dark Victory] Media Malakim >Redneck Gaijin wrote: > >> James Bond would make a horrible Malakim. He's a spy. Honor is >> something either fluid or nonexistent for him. > >I meant something more like Bond's style than his policies. >Substitute John Steed & Mrs. Peel, then. > >> As for D'Artagnan, had he had the power of a Malakim, Cardinal >> Richeilieu (sic) wouldn't have lived long enough to give him his >> commission > >If D'Artagnan had been a Malakite, I suppose Richelieu would have >been a deep-cover Balseraph -- or maybe Impudite -- and more equal to >the occasion. > Habbalite. The historical figure played the Sun King Louis XIV like a violin for quite some time... Redneck (though Balseraph and Impudite are just as good, and good point) Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 15:13:53 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Story : Masquerade Michael doesn't look that dumb, having tied Lucifer in a violin contest. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 14:12:47 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> [Fluff] Book Review > > I just finished last night reading "THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO THE SON" by > > Norman Mailer. It's the first person view of the New Testament through > > the eyes of Jesus Christ. Now, this is a painful read. It is difficult, > "Well, it's a big, black book.." My Bible is actually blue. *shrug* > > > I've just started this really bizarre book called "WICKED: The Tale of the > > Wicked Witch of the West." It's about the nature of evil. I'm a big 20 > Sounds interesting...let me know how it shapes up when you get > further in.. > I'll probably post a review. Anything that bizarre that focuses on the Nature of Evil has GOT to be good. > MaBarry suggests _Illusions_, by Richard Bach; it's kind of a > treatise on how to be a Messiah, if, by chance, you haven't read it... *nodnodnodnodnodnod* I agree. Especially the bit about walking on water. I've also read several other Richard Bach books (One, Jonathan Livingston Seagull, etc.) It was during my hippy period. My copy got lost in the ether... I think it fell out of my bag one day and crossed Shadows. I'm hoping it ended up in the hands of a son of Brand so he can go, be mellow, and do anything STUPID. But, unfortunately, this means I need a new copy. > > redeemed individual when they are set loose? Doesn't their own personal > > demons come back? Is it fair to remove their free will to do whatever > > they want simply to make them acceptable to community standards? > > So it's something to think about. I have pondered deeply. > "What're we going to do tonight, Em?" > "Same thing we do every night, Lintking. Try to spread angst to > the world!" > Why, comma, yes. Never a day without some angst. Actually, it's a good and interesting point when talking about the nature of Free Will, the nature of demons, and asking oneself 'what is good' and 'what is evil'. Is it good to sit an enemy down and brainwash them until they believe that you are in the right? Maybe, but at what loss? What cost? And what innate goodness within their soul do they lose through the transition? In the book, Alex was forced through conditioning to lose his violent tendancies (and they're pretty nasty) and become 'acceptable to human society'. But at the same time, he lost any redeeming qualities he, himself possessed. And by whose standards is he now acceptable? Not his own. And those he inflicted pain on where just as cruel in return. I think it works the same way here, when it comes to Redemption, in a way. It's the same subject, without the Beethoven. :) - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 12:38:44 -0600 (CST) From: Martin Leslie Leuschen Subject: Re: IN> [DV] Well... what next? + Fluff >Redneck Gaijin wrote: >> >> Well, I appear to have run through the 'requests' list thus far for DV >> material. At the moment my mind is perking on my first adventure seed for >> DV, 'Rebirth of Liberty.' >> >> So... any requests for DV? Demon Prince mods you'd like to see? Regional >> info? Suggestions for adventures? > I want to see Kronos. The Prince of Fate is no longer the most Powerful DP in Hell, but his raw power was always only a side effect of his other talents, IMHO. (I've always pictured him as immensely stong willed, subtle, and deep-thinking. Kobal may be more clever, Vapula more intelligent, and Malphas more manipulative, but no DP is even close to being as dangerous a Kronos. YMMV) He sounded depressed and defeatest in "A Dark Seed," pining for Lucifer in a similar way that Yves (in some settings) pines for God. I don't think that will last forever. Yves, after all, has continued with God's Plan, as he Sees it, Kronos may continue with Lucifer's. Ops for some real bittersweet interactions between the two later on... Two things I see in the future of the DV universe: (Sorry Redneck if any of these imaginings conflict with your plans - take them as fanciful suggestions...) - -Uriel's rampage in Hell, slaughtering Demons and freeing many captive Angels seems unstoppable. Even the combined might of the other DPs can't seem to stop this Power from the Upper Heavens. Then Saminga steps onto the scene, calmly grabs the first Malakite in one immense hand, and cracks his neck like a chicken. (Makes it baldly clear how powerful Saminga has become.) - -After much preparation and work (Many sessions and maybe campaigns worth of playing) the Forces of heaven, aided by the remaining Etherials and a few Hellish backstabbers (noteably Malphas) arrange to ambush Saminga as he walks the Earth. (Pick the area you wish to devastate.) Everyone except a few die-hard (Kronos, etc.) and insane (Dominic, etc.) demons have been convinced to turn on the power-bloated DP of Death simply for their own survival. Every possible preparation has been made - the Granite Throne will be destroyed by an artifact created by Lucifer just as the battle begins, Saminga will be alone, and surprised, and outnumbered, special Songs and Artifacts have been crafted. And it is not enough. Saminga is winning. Things get more and more desparate, with the angels turning to suicidal attacks just to give the Symphony a chance to survive, even if they themselves are Dissipated. Saminga reels, but it is still not enough. He recovers, preparing to strike. Kronos' and Dominic's forces appear behind Saminga. The DP of Cleansing stared at Saminga's twisted form, Kronos whispering somthing in his ear. "UNCLEAN!" it screams, and hurls its forces, and its Forces, against the surprised and reeling DP of Death. Kronos' minons join the fray. And Saminga goes down... *** Later, Eli, Lucifer, and Yves are in New Heaven, counting their losses, licking their wounds, and discussing the battle. Eli asks "I realize you knew him well, but how could you be so *sure*? If we'd had *any* other chance whatsoever I wouldn't have placed our only hope on the Demon Prince of Fate." He sighs. "But you were right, he did appear, and he did turn Dominic against Saminga. How did you *know.*" Lucifer looks up, not answering to Eli's whim for the first time since he Redeemed. He shrugs, and looks down again. "He just knew." said Yves. *** In Hell, Malphas talks to Kronos... "But I still want to know how you could *tell* it would all come down to that. Every time I tried to get you to turn on Saminga before he got too powerful, you told me it was not yet time. Again and again to put confrontation off. Eventually I gave up on you and your Servants as depressed beyond action, and dealt directly with New Heaven to arrange a co-operative strike." "And when we're going down, when the entire Symphony is going down, you appear with that bugf*ck rabid former Archangel and and hit him by surprise. Exactly, to ten Forsaken decimal places exactly, what was needed to take it down." The prince of Factions was worked up now, panting, actually losing his cool for the first time in millenia. (Coming within a hair of getting Force-stripped does that to a Demon.) "But we didn't even tell you of the ambush! And I'd talked to that raving excuse for a Balseraph Dominic - - what you did to him wasn't easy, Hell - I don't think it was possible! But you had him right where you wanted him, right where we needed him, in an ambush you didn't even know about. *HOW DID YOU KNOW*?" The Pince of Fate said simply - "I just knew." Leaving the stunned Shedite to stare at the rubble that was once the Granite Throne, Kronos returned to his Library. There were records that needed to be updated... (Anyway, that's one way to end a DV campaign, and my lttle bit of compulsive Kronos Fluff....) Regards, Martin Leuschen martinl@rice.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 13:58:04 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> Story : Masquerade >Michael doesn't look that dumb, having tied Lucifer in a violin >contest. > Skill and intelligence are not necessarily related, but this point has been refuted anyway. Still, I would point out that the 'lots of humans' angle didn't show up too well through the various Superiors interacting. Perhaps some human-Superior matchups could be dropped in on an edit? }:-{D Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 17:09:27 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Bright Victory? At 1:26 PM -0400 10/24/97, Jeff Miller wrote: >At 07:10 PM 10/23/97 -0500, you wrote: >>> Eris goddess/AA of discord? >> >>Goddess of Discord, Chaos, and All Things Funky. The only reason she'd >>be an Archangel would be to get into the Seraphim Council long enough to >>do some fruit throwing. >> >The thought of a horde of Cherubs or Djinn Attuning to the apple.... > >Or, give it to a Lilim... ...what a quandry! "Okay, who *Needs* this the *MOST*??" (Bidding war, bidding war!) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 17:18:49 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Two questions.. At 1:29 AM +0000 10/25/97, Walt Mazur wrote: >On Fri, 24 Oct 1997 18:51:52 -0400, Elizabeth McCoy > wrote: > >>*ahem* Right. Yes, every 4 points of damage to *anything* will >>cause disturbance. So if you toast a human, it's +10, +human >>Forces, +1-per-every-4-points it took to kill him in the >>first place. > >Ah, Beth, are you declaring an errata on this? IN, p.55, *emphasis* added: I don't think I have to. The GM's screen says: "or +1 per 4 Body hits" -- *Body* hits. Not anything about damage to inanimate things... (I could have sworn this was already errated somewhere, and it's driving me mildly nuts that it's not up anywhere.) (So yes, if it's not errata'ed already, I'm errating it. Physical damage to *anything* should make noise... I'll CC this to the errata coordinator. Unless he recalls someone saying differently...?) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #439 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.