From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Oct 27 20:23:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA11388 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 20:23:22 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id UAA17582 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 20:00:44 -0600 Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 20:00:44 -0600 Message-Id: <199710280200.UAA17582@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #441 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, October 27 1997 Volume 01 : Number 441 In this digest: Re: IN> Story : Masquerade Re: IN> Seraphim Check Digits Re: IN> [DV] Corporeal Death in Armageddeon and After IN> Celestial Genesis Re: IN> Query : Where is Gabriel's volcano? Re: IN> Seraphim Check Digits Re: IN> Hebrew in IN and fluff. Re: IN> Two questions.. Re: IN> [DV] Falling Re: IN> THE LAST LAUGH Re: IN> Celestial Genesis Re: IN> Seraphim Check Digits Re: IN> Guardian Angels Re: IN> Seraphim Check Digits Re: IN> [DV] Falling Re: IN> Celestial Genesis Re: IN> [DV] Falling Re: IN> Two questions.. IN> [DV] Saminga, Demon Prince of Death, the Ultimate Evil IN> Cockroaches Re: IN> [DV] Falling ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 18:56:38 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Story : Masquerade At 9:06 PM -0600 10/26/97, Redneck Gaijin wrote: >>Totally apocryphal, naturally: and inspired at least in part by Redneck's >>_Chess Game_, and in part by listening to _The Devil goes down to Georgia_ >>too many times. Opinions welcome. >> > > >Not bad. My only problem is that the story has Laurence and Michael looking >like a couple of dunces, not being able to recognize anybody when the masks >and actions of most of the people are a dead giveaway. (Michael probably knew 'em, and Laurence is just simply young and so very straightforward. It's part of his charm.) At 1:29 PM -0500 10/27/97, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Bravo! Loved the moods. > >Beth, if you take votes, I nominate this one for the archives. No problem -- as soon as she has it up and I have a free moment, I'll go linking to that. (I link to most of her stuff...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 16:52:04 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim Check Digits >At 3:14 AM +0000 10/25/97, Walt Mazur wrote: >>On Fri, 24 Oct 1997 19:59:52 -0600 (MDT), Kingsley Lintz >> wrote: >>>Anything over an 18-Force entity just isn't accounted for, since they >>>note 12 in any attribute as "Spectacular"...by the time you're getting CD >>>bonuses off your default skills, I think the system has largely fallen to >>>pieces. {"Aw, man...chemistry gets a -5, so I only get a minimum check >>>digit of 8. Shucks." See what I mean?} >> >>Well, consider Precision/12 + Ranged Weapon/6 + Talisman Gun/6 + Accuracy/1 >>+ Scope/1 + Aim/3 + Essence/9 = 38 = 12 + 26 CD bonus = 27 to 34 CD. Now >>add a power of 8 to that for 35 to 42 damage. >> >>Or consider a holy pistol with Precision/12 + Ranged Weapon/6 + Accuracy/1 >>+ Aim/3 + Essence/9 = 31 = 12 + 19 CD bonus = 20 to 25 CD, a damage of 120 >>to 150 for a Holy Pistol/6. >> >>We're basically already there in ultra CD land. What we have to do is make >>sure Attunements and other powers can keep up. Smite starts looking pretty >>lame. > >The GM who allows either of the horrible "edge of the bellcurve" >examples above...deserves what he gets. Maybe he should just promote >the PCs to Superiors and be done with it. Use some diceless system >for their politicking... How many times has it been said that the combat is busted?... well, in this case, I look at it this way. Both cases are clearly shots to the head. The first one, with a non-blessed weapon, would have been immediate death for all but the strongest or most agile humans. The second incident, with a holy weapon, ices all but the strongest starting PCs. As a GM, I'd let s player or two be this specialized; then, I'd play the game so he doesn't get the opportunity to use these little toys much, just when it's Dramatically Appropriate. The player will soon find that being Mr. Combat Monster is a pain in a game with little combat. Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 19:30:16 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> [DV] Corporeal Death in Armageddeon and After At 4:10 PM -0600 10/27/97, Redneck Gaijin wrote: >>>>There are disadvantages to gathering all Hearts in one place, >>>>after all... Especially if it's not in Hell. >>>> >>>Thank you, Beth, favored Servitor of Litheroy. }:-{D >> >> Sorry, I didn't know you'd laid claim >>to that inspiration particle already. > >Me and, apparently, three other people now. }:-{D I'm not sore. Good... 'Cause I don't hang around Litheroy. He keeps griping at me because I won't tell him whether J.C. was a celestial or not. "But you must know!" he cries. And I just look at him and say, "I'm not supposed to tell you whether I know or don't know. And I'm not going to. You have to decide what you believe for yourself." Then he demands, "So what about Janus and Valefor? That doesn't have to be an article of faith." And I say, "I'm not supposed to tell you whether I know or don't know. And I won't." So he slithers off in a huff. Because who says Archives are only for the *past*? >>>Who wants to try it? >> >>Suicidal idiots...? >> >At least 25% of all role-players. }:-{D I like those numbers. "Executive summary: We went looking for trouble. We found trouble. Trouble ran away. We went home." (And some poor Jeanite reads this, buries his head in his hands, and mutters, "Does she even understand the *point*?") - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 17:36:45 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: IN> Celestial Genesis Yes, it's that time. It's been about two weeks, so it's time for another one of 'Em's Wacky Writeups'. I need my own segment. My own show, even! This is a topic that I've been tossing back and forth with quite a few people, online and offline. It was bothering me that there was no real genesis for celestials put forth in the sourcebook, and while it was bothering me, a player actually started asking about it. I had to cook up an answer, and that was that. So after some thought, here is my answer. I'll start with demons first, because the method is simpler. I'm expecting all kinds of 'it's not canon' and 'it's not that way in the book' and 'no, I don't like that', and that's cool. This is just how it's laying out for my game, since the subject has come up in a number of forms. .... thanks to ArchAngel Beth to listening to me ramble endlessly about this stuff. Why anyone would want to hear about Shedim mating practices is beyond me. :) ************************ Demons: It is stated (the rulebook, I believe) that there are many more demons then angels down in hell, most of which are never seen. So where did they all come from? According to the fun pamphlet we're given when we walk out of GM school, it says that only 1/3rd of the host Fell originally, and of those, not many of the original Fallen are left. Yet now they outnumber angels by a wide margin. Where did they come from? The general assumption is that they started as imps or 3/4 force Celestials, which is fine. But the question stands, where did those 3/4 force celestials come from? I'm not a big believer in spontanious generation in any form. - - Copulation methods Seeing that fornication is original sin, the simplest ways to fill out the ranks of ones demonic servitors are to allow them to do it themselves with some checks in place. Hell does, after all, run on the free enterprise/free will system, to a point.... which is your free will ends when you run into someone bigger then you are who has more free will then you do. It's time to allow love, and lust, bloom in Hell. Only like bands can mate with like bands, so no weird Shedim/Impudite crosses, unless they come out of Vapula's laboritories. Of the seven major bands of demons, six have controlled mating/breeding habits, generally run by the bureacracies of each of the major Demon Princes. Young demons would be born of few forces (1-2), which is contributed from essense gathered from each of the parents. Demons do not require pregnancy, and may be able to generate a child after initial copulation. This also does not require that the parents care for their offspring, or show any overtly parently additudes in their general direction. Also, a born demon does not necessarily belong to any demon prince, although either a parent will swear it in, or the child will do so at the earliest opportunity. Balseraphim: Copulation, birthing from eggs. (Celtic knots. :) ) Djinni: Copulation. (I still say the entire concept of Djinnporn freaks me out.) Habbalah: Copulation, "God's method". :) Calabim: Copulation. Shedim: Budding. Shedim need only one parent, and my spontaniously grow a child at any point when they have the essense to do so. Impudite: Copulation. Alot, if they work for Andrealphus, and not always with any results. - - Breeding methods A fully grown Demon without any additional essense or forces is one of 7 forces. The ability for demons to produce their own offspring allows a Superior to control a mass of self-replicating troups which are not only expendable, but allow for a little darwin to take over, breeding out the weak and allowing the strongest to survive to serve. The entire system of allowing 'permission' to breed is controlled through a subset of the bureacracy of any of the demon princes involved. It is assumed the Princes themselves would not be involved, handing this off to a lower set of servitors, unless the breeding involved was those of very high distinction and/or Word bound celestials, or those of other high status. Large systems for raising/training (huge military schools for Baal, paranoia-like complexes for Asmodeus, god knows WHAT for Andre) would be in place to churn out huge amounts of ready and apt troops. Even Vapula, doing the Brave New World thing, growing his Habbalah and Impudite slaves in giant vats, tuning them especially for his needs. - - Large empires Allowing demons to breed allows for the Princes to build the enormous loyal staff which is required to run the principalities of Hell, without the worry of replacements from Fallen Angels. Asmodeus can get his million or so servitors to serve at the desks of Hades, enormous vats of Shedim boil in Abaddon, creating loyal servants for Saminga from the stripped essense of the human souls, Baal gets an eternal battle on Gehenna without worrying about replacing troups. The strongest, smartest survive, and eventually become assigned to more earthbound, interesting duties. ************ Lilim Lilim are a different story then any of the other demonic bands, because they are born directly from Lilith herself, and only from Lilith. As of such, they become the smallest of any of the major bands, and possibly the smallest of any of the bands in Hell, period. Since Lilith is, according to the interpretation of your choice of the Alphabet of Ben Sira, a human (to a point), she goes through the motions of 'birthing' a child, one at a time. Every Lilim is born with 9 forces, just like an angel. - - Fathering The question then, is if Lilith is required to bear a child to full term, who is the father who provides the other end of the bargin, so to speak? Since Lilith is known for making bargins with the highest bidder, the father is the one who catches the fancy at the time. These include: * Demon Princes * ArchAngels * Ethereals * High Level Word-Bound Celestials "With Promise". To have a child with Lilith would mean a few things. It could mean that the Celestial in question has an 'early claim' via Geas onto the child in question. The second is that the child may exhibit a few of the traits of the parent. (Sudden image of a Lilim feeling the need to go out hang around with a bunch of almost Dead Babylonian Gods because 'It just feels right to have this bloody sacrifice, you know?') Ah yes. And best of all, plot hooks. For PCs and NPCs alike. - - The Nursery To facilitate the raising of young Lilim, I propose an addition onto the Guildhall called 'The Nursery', a set of rooms added on where the youngest are raised until they are deemed ready to get shoved out into the streets of Shal-Mari with the rest of the kids. This would be run by elder Lilim looking to pick up some quick and easy Geases they can call in alot later, Impudites and Djinn looking for work, etc. ** I still like the teddy bear baby Djinn and the Baby Balseraph ideas, which are not mine. :) A baby lilim can try out proto-geases and make little happy bonds for life, which are more plot hooks. Hey, Lilith has to have her Allied status with other superiors for some reason. For living teddy bear stories, I gesture my hand in the general direction of the Sandman: The Book of Dreams and encourage people to 'go for it'. - - Rarity Clearly, from the pure rarity of Lilim, their intrinsic worth goes up. Their natural forces are more then those of the average demon, and they possess a quality which cannot be duplicated in any other demon. A demon prince may only have a handful at any one time (some more then others), working under a contract. As such, it makes it even more desireable to attain and hold a bound Lilim, so that there is no contract negotiations, nor is there reason for concern that the Lilim will wander off and work for the competition for a time. Having an early hook from 'fathering' a Lilim does make things easier to keep one, even to bind one at an early age, which does make going through the pain with Lilith, in the long run, worth the Geases you know have to pay back. ************ Angels Angels are different. There are no huge Seraph hatcheries, no giant lines of Impudites being grown in tubes. It's heaven, after all, and the gift of life is a rare and precious one. - - Either from Superior themselves forming out of the Symphony So where do little Angels come from? Well, there are two methods. One of which is that the Superior realizes the need for a new servitor of some sort, and forms it himself out of 9 forces gathered from the Symphony. The young angel is handed over to loyal servants to raise in the proper manner as one of that ArchAngel should be. - - Superior grants forces Or... and this is where the question from my player came from. What if an angel, or two angels, or a big group of angels wishes to raise a child themselves? There are a few steps to follow: 1. Petition an ArchAngel for the forces needed, or the additional essense required. 2. Get together and have a big blowout. 3. The child would be loyal to the ArchAngel who donated the forces, much like if the Archangel had created the child in the first place. If a servant of Yves and a servant of Eli get together, and the forces are donated from Yves, then the child is going to be a bookworm, not a free spirit. Note that only one angel is required for the generation of a new Celestial, and it is not constrained to two. If ten Celestials in a Novalis Commune decide they really want to have a new young one to bring up and teach and love, then they can do so in sort of an enormous love fest. Which probably gets a bit messy. Further note that the specific choir of the child is not dependant on the parents, but on the Superior who donated the forces in the first place. Although, the Superior is likely to have the choir of the newly created Celestial of the primary parent. - - Pregnancy vs. Spontanious birth So here's the big question, are Angels born or sprung from the head of some mighty being, like Athena from Zeus? Well, the answer is, "It depends." I would see that, the earthy types, like the servants of Novalis, Eli and Jordi, and maybe even others like Michael, would really appreciate the entire process of pregnancy and childbirth. It really allows the angels to get in touch with the human experience in a big way (and does wonders for one's role, or at least the role of the one to be born.) But others, it is a mating, an a flash of light, and a new Celestial ala Q. I would say it is up to the Celestial, and the Superior, in question. ******** Conclusion None of this is canon, and all of it springs (births, even) from somewhere in my imagination. I doubt that it is all consistant, and of course, I'm welcoming comments. I'm just hoping it answers a little bit of 'where did my PC come from.' - - Em, Demon of Playing IN Backwards, Balseraph of the Game. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 19:30:41 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Query : Where is Gabriel's volcano? At 12:20 AM +0000 10/27/97, GR Cogman wrote: >After reading Heaven and Hell, and comparing it to the original IN book and >The Marches, I'm a little confused. Only understandable... It is, after all, non-topological in any 3-dimensional way that us mortals could understand... Which is a lot of handwaving for something that I'm shaking my head about. O:J Redneck's explanation works for me fairly well. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 00:30:55 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim Check Digits On Mon, 27 Oct 1997 17:37:41 -0400, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >>Well, consider Precision/12 + Ranged Weapon/6 + Talisman Gun/6 + Accuracy/1 >>+ Scope/1 + Aim/3 + Essence/9 = 38 = 12 + 26 CD bonus = 27 to 34 CD. Now >>add a power of 8 to that for 35 to 42 damage. >> >>Or consider a holy pistol with Precision/12 + Ranged Weapon/6 + Accuracy/1 >>+ Aim/3 + Essence/9 = 31 = 12 + 19 CD bonus = 20 to 25 CD, a damage of 120 >>to 150 for a Holy Pistol/6. >> >>We're basically already there in ultra CD land. What we have to do is make >>sure Attunements and other powers can keep up. Smite starts looking pretty >>lame. > >The GM who allows either of the horrible "edge of the bellcurve" >examples above...deserves what he gets. Maybe he should just promote >the PCs to Superiors and be done with it. Use some diceless system >for their politicking... A beginning character can get Precision/12 using only 4 of 9 Forces. Ranged Weapon/6 costs 6 points while a Talisman Gun/6 costs 12: that's only half a starting character's points. Everything else is available to a beginning character, too. I particularly picked 9 Essence since that's the Essence available to a beginning character, though it's probably better to not use the Essence and stay quiet. You'd still do 24-31 damage. A player could make a very strong character to use the Talisman above, then save until the 40 or so for the HP/6 and ammo; but, it's probably more effective to spend the points elsewhere. A Holy Pistol/6 costs 36 points, plus ammo, so it isn't immediately available to a beginning character, unless he took a Discord. But if a demon took a Discord/4 worth 12 points, that would be enough to buy Ranged Weapon/6 and 6 unholy bullets. The GM can hardly object to a Calabite doing this since they're required to buy Discord. Since all these items are "off the shelf," I'd have a hard time justifying their prohibition by GM fiat. It seems to me they're part of the standard game world. All in all, if I were messing with the standard game world (more than I am already to get rid of that God-awful disturbance formula), I'd put into practice the FAQ statement that IN isn't a game where humans are helpless pawns and give them Will bonuses against Celestial influence. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 19:54:52 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Hebrew in IN and fluff. At 5:44 PM -0500 10/27/97, Emily Dresner wrote: >> >> >Most of the choirs are from hebrew, so we and my group can relate >> >easily. [...] Cherubim are cabbages. >> >> Cabbages? > >Haven't you ever noticed? They're all... leafy! I thought that was only Novalis... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 00:31:08 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> Two questions.. On Mon, 27 Oct 1997 17:18:49 -0400, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >>Ah, Beth, are you declaring an errata on this? IN, p.55, *emphasis* added: > >I don't think I have to. The GM's screen says: "or +1 per 4 Body hits" -- >*Body* hits. Not anything about damage to inanimate things... Good point on the GM screen, but IN itself is consistent (pp. 55, 59) about the hits being to inanimate objects. >(I could have sworn this was already errated somewhere, and it's >driving me mildly nuts that it's not up anywhere.) > >(So yes, if it's not errata'ed already, I'm errating it. Physical >damage to *anything* should make noise... I'll CC this to >the errata coordinator. Unless he recalls someone saying >differently...?) Works for me. I think everyone decided on it, but it just didn't get to the Errata sheet because everyone thought it was already there. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 16:42:26 -0700 (MST) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> [DV] Falling > As a general note, with the exception of Infernal Intervention, an angel > *cannot* Fall accidentially. The Dissonance number rolled against > Third note: roll higher than 2. But if you roll a 111, something *good* > happens! But what if you roll a 112? Since the 11 counts for Falling and you only have a 1 in 6 chance from there of getting out of it on the check digit, you should be able to Fall accidentally on getting your third note, before you can trade it in for Discord...(it's, what, 2.5%? Not a very BIG chance, but it seems to be there.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 16:51:04 -0700 (MST) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> THE LAST LAUGH > "No," said Valefor. "All of your kind are unique -- you just happen to > resemble a platypus. I turned you into a Daffanite. One of the > Daffanim." > gigantic hanky. "No, I didn't lie to you. And I'm not an Impudite -- I'm > a Animim. A Mercurian gone Bass-Ackwards and Sideways. And, by the way, So, when do we get Resonances and Attunements? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 20:03:14 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Celestial Genesis At 5:36 PM -0500 10/27/97, Emily Dresner wrote: [...] >.... thanks to ArchAngel Beth to listening to me ramble endlessly about >this stuff. Why anyone would want to hear about Shedim mating practices >is beyond me. :) It was the Djinn that was most bemusing. I mean, if one looks like a cross between a wolf and a praying mantis, and the other looks like Lassie after being skinned and with five extra legs and two prehensile tails... how *does* it work? >Demons: >This also does not require that the parents care for their >offspring, or show any overtly parently additudes in their general >direction. Why am I reminded of GURPS Goblins here? >Habbalah: > > Copulation, "God's method". :) Does this mean they only use the missionary position? (Habbalah without whips and chains? The mind boggles.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 01:01:27 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim Check Digits On Mon, 27 Oct 1997 16:52:04 -0600 (CST), redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) wrote: >How many times has it been said that the combat is busted?... well, in this >case, I look at it this way. > >Both cases are clearly shots to the head. The first one, with a non-blessed >weapon, would have been immediate death for all but the strongest or most >agile humans. The second incident, with a holy weapon, ices all but the >strongest starting PCs. I wouldn't say combat is busted, just that the combat-oriented Attunements and Resonances aren't well-balanced with conventional combat, or with some Songs, for that matter. >As a GM, I'd let s player or two be this specialized; then, I'd play the >game so he doesn't get the opportunity to use these little toys much, just >when it's Dramatically Appropriate. Agree. I don't see that much problem. Most of the work is trying to figure out who to shoot, and you have to do that face-to-face. IAC, if you do shoot a Celestial and kill him, he'll be back as soon as he gets out of Trauma; if you don't at least stun him, he has a number of options for getting out of the line of fire. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 17:12:55 -0700 (MST) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Guardian Angels > Hello All. Just recently saw a birthday card with the Guardian > Angels for each month specified on it. I will provide the info Huh...temporal Seneschals. I have to admit, I really hadn't thought about that. (It sounds awkward, actually, but it could be interesting, too.) > Barbiel Oct I like this one, though. Is that ballerina Barbiel, or Malibu Barbiel? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 17:08:23 -0700 (MST) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim Check Digits > >>Well, consider Precision/12 + Ranged Weapon/6 + Talisman Gun/6 + Accuracy/1 > >>+ Scope/1 + Aim/3 + Essence/9 = 38 = 12 + 26 CD bonus = 27 to 34 CD. Now > >>add a power of 8 to that for 35 to 42 damage. > >>Or consider a holy pistol with Precision/12 + Ranged Weapon/6 + Accuracy/1 > >>+ Aim/3 + Essence/9 = 31 = 12 + 19 CD bonus = 20 to 25 CD, a damage of 120 > >>to 150 for a Holy Pistol/6. Those, I have to admit, don't bother me so much...the first has devoted half his character points and all his Essence to one shot, and the second...um, has spent all his essence and picked up at least 3 levels of Discord, JUST for that. (Holy Pistol/6 is 36 points right there, so he'll need Discord/2 just for the ranged weapon skill, and then a couple bullets at 1 point each.) Especially in the latter case, we're talking a Celestial who was created for the sole purpose of taking out -AN- enemy. I'd start them off Word Bound. ("I am Munchkizim, Angel of Killing Ed." With the special Rite that whenever they kill Ed, they regain 2 Essence. Then explain to the player just how many adventures can be based on killing Ed (ie. 1) Maybe Ed has 6 Corporeal Forces and a Will of 1, so he'll never come out of Trauma anyway...) > As a GM, I'd let s player or two be this specialized; then, I'd play the > game so he doesn't get the opportunity to use these little toys much, just > when it's Dramatically Appropriate. I don't like that so much, though. Players should have some input in how the game is shaped, and the way they build their characters is really their chance to express it. If a PC puts 42 out of 36 points into their gun, they've bloody well paid for a chance to peg SOMEONE...and if the GM really doesn't intend on giving them that, they should be upfront about it from the beginning and say, "Um, look, you guys are all on loan to Novalis. She's not going to TAKE someone like this." ('Course, now they load up on a Relic and max out their Songs of Harmony...) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 18:06:45 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> [DV] Falling >At 2:30 PM -0600 10/26/97, Redneck Gaijin wrote: >>As such, the first time an Angel fails a Dissonance roll or draws a Demonic >>Intervention, they Fall. > >As a general note, with the exception of Infernal Intervention, an angel >*cannot* Fall accidentially. The Dissonance number rolled against >is always *current* dissonance, not including the note that has just >been earned! So a smart angel will go: > >First note: roll higher than 0. No problem. 216 possible combinations Odds on Divine Intervention = 1/6 X 1/6 X 1/6 = 1/216 or 215:1 against Odds = 0 or infinity against >Second note: roll higher than 1. No problem. Odds = 0 or infinity against (only possible failing roll is an Intervention) So far so good. >Third note: roll higher than 2. But if you roll a 111, something *good* > happens! Odds = 1/27 or 26:1 against Long odds, but it could happen. >Now, if you get 3 notes of dissonance, you convert it to Discord >before you do anything to earn a 4th (where you'd be trying to get >higher than a 3, and *could* Fall). Here's where we get into priorities. "Well, this Dissonance is temporary, it'll go away soon as I fix it, I'll hold off on the Discord growth." or "This Dissonance will go away, but i don't want to take any chances. I'll just have green blood for a while, until I can do a big favor for my Superior." The odds for those who choose to gamble on not buying Discord: 3 Dissonance = 1/8 or 7:1 against 4 Dissonance = 8/27 or 19:8 against 5 Dissonance = 125/216 or 91:125 against 6 Dissonance = Hand in your harp, here's your accordion. (1:215 against} }:-{D It is possible, if a player is gambling on Dissonance vanishing or getting cleaned up by their Superior, to get these high numbers. Still, most sensible people will quit gambling after they squeak past the odds on 4 dissonance, pick up their fifth, and realize somebody Down Below is taking their size in horns. }:-{D Any nits you want to pick in the rest of the article, Beth? }:-{D Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 00:27:34 GMT From: maya@tcp.co.uk (GR Cogman) Subject: Re: IN> Celestial Genesis >>Habbalah: >> >> Copulation, "God's method". :) > >Does this mean they only use the missionary position? (Habbalah >without whips and chains? The mind boggles.) > Caliah coughs, politely. "Some of my Choir have apparently had revelations concerning God's methods from Prince Andrealphus. I have _not_ inquired." - --- Maya, Elohim of Eli in service to Blandine maya@tcp.co.uk - -- "There are those who say that wizards are subject to temptations and addictions beyond the understanding of ordinary men: the addiction to shape-changing, or to meditation under the influence of certain herbs and conditions of the stars; the obsession with knowledge, and the development of power. Yet this is not so. Temptation is temptation, obsession is obsession, and choice is choice." - Isar Chelladan, Precepts of Wizardry. -- "Dog Wizard", Barbara Hambly. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 21:10:49 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> [DV] Falling At 4:42 PM -0700 10/27/97, Kingsley Lintz wrote: >> As a general note, with the exception of Infernal Intervention, an angel >> *cannot* Fall accidentially. The Dissonance number rolled against >> Third note: roll higher than 2. But if you roll a 111, something *good* >> happens! > But what if you roll a 112? Since the 11 counts for Falling Equal to or higher than. If you have 2 existing notes of dissonance, you must roll a 2+ to avoid falling. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 21:09:10 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Two questions.. At 12:31 AM +0000 10/28/97, Walt Mazur wrote: >On Mon, 27 Oct 1997 17:18:49 -0400, Elizabeth McCoy > wrote: > >>>Ah, Beth, are you declaring an errata on this? IN, p.55, *emphasis* added: >> >>I don't think I have to. The GM's screen says: "or +1 per 4 Body hits" -- >>*Body* hits. Not anything about damage to inanimate things... > >Good point on the GM screen, but IN itself is consistent (pp. 55, 59) about >the hits being to inanimate objects. And the errata will be consistant. [...] >Works for me. I think everyone decided on it, but it just didn't get to the >Errata sheet because everyone thought it was already there. That sounds about right. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 18:38:01 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: IN> [DV] Saminga, Demon Prince of Death, the Ultimate Evil The horror which was Saminga smiled its rotted, hideous grin as it watched the latest harvest of souls in Abaddon. Several among the harvest were angels, Impudites and Ofanim in particular, squirming and crying out in terror and agony as their souls were stripped randomly of forces. As he watched, one Angel's cry faded, and its Celestial body crumbled into nothingness. Stupid angels, Saminga frowned. They die too hard and yield so little when they do. Human souls are so much better. They're good to the last Force. Saminga sighed, turning away from the entertainment to attend to business. For some reason, he felt a need to sit on his chair for a while. Every day, for some reason, something called him down to the depths of Hell to check on it. He hated doing it- the puny Demon Princes were always there, nagging him about one inconsequential thing after another. We need your help to do this, we need your help to do that, they always say. When will they quit nagging me about the little things and get to work on killing the rest of the humans? The War's over, the handful of puny free angels remaining are beneath the notice of the Ultimate Evil. Death will come to them in all its terror soon enough. Saminga grinned happily as his servants bowed when he passed. Good lads. Very much what the Ultimate Evil should have in help. Not like others, oh no. Look at Malphas, he actually lets his Servants talk back to him, lets them have -ideas.- That's just wrong. Servants are there to obey, worship, and get stepped on. He knows, he was a servant once. Good one, too, until he ran away, very good. Very bad now. The baddest. The Ultimate Evil. Nothing badder than him now. And every day his servants made sure his Evil spread across the world, one corpse at a time. It's good to be Death. Saminga is, if anything, even more insane than before Armageddeon. It would be very, very fair to say that the power his Word gained in the weeks leading up to the actual battle, as wars broke out all across the Earth, went straight to his head. To add to this power, he had personally gone among the humans and fed, building his power with their Forces, amusing himself by turning whole provinces into graveyards, or even zombie kingdoms. Transylvania was literally full of vampires now, as it should be. (Of course, they're getting plenty hungry with not a single human left in that part of Romania...) When Lucifer Redeemed, the tiny part of Saminga's mind which held some sanity picked up on the power vacuum. Since Armageddeon, Saminga had grown more powerful than any other Demon Prince, but not strong enough by himself to stand if they all (or even if many, say three or more) ganged up against him. With the first alarm in Abaddon, Saminga was already on the Throne Lucifer had created, claiming it for himself, Attuning it to himself. Once on the throne, Saminga became unstoppable; he was, in truth, the Ultimate Evil. Unfortunately for the forces of Hell, Saminga has no concept of what to do with this power. Most of the time he doesn't even realize the Throne adds to his power at all- he's always been the Ultimate Evil. He doesn't care about granting Words, or Principalities, or stamping out the few remaining Angels- all these things are beneath his attention. They don't matter. Only Death and obedience to Saminga matter. Saminga, in effect, is New Heaven's strongest ally and worst foe rolled up into one. He's promoting Death more than ever, with Earth's population still in a steep negative population growth curve- 2.5 billion and dropping like a stone- but at the same time he's paralyzed Hell's power structure, with most of the remaining Demon Princes watching and waiting to see what he will do. Some, like Haagenti, wonder what his plan is; most of the rest know he HAS no plan, and worry as they look across the Marches to see the gleaming beacon of Hope mocking their victory. (Info listed here only as changed from the IN Rulebook.) RELATIONS Haagenti is Saminga's only ally of any sort. Haagenti doesn't bother him with useless trivia about renegade Princes and free Archangels. He just asks him where the food is and helps out Saminga's cause by having people gorge themselves to death and starve others at the same time. Kronos actually keeps the day-to-day business of the Occupation and Hell going, and stands silently beside Saminga in those brief times the Prince of Death sits in state on the Granite Throne; he obeys Saminga's orders, so Saminga indulges him. He couldn't care less about the rest of the Princes, which might be his undoing, especially since at least two of those Princes, possibly -all- of them, are plotting against him... ALLIED: No one ASSOCIATED: Haagenti, Kronos HOSTILE: Everyone else ENEMY: None - -- Redneck (short, ne?) Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 18:51:45 -600 From: "John L Veazey" Subject: IN> Cockroaches > the Demon Prince of Cockroaches Who Can Survive Ground Zero So Nyah. > {With his faithful sidekick, Archie, the Demon Of That Movie "Mimic".} I may be sick for asking this, but I'd like to hear more about the Scrunch, Demon Prince of Cockroaches and his faithful sidekick Archie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 19:22:39 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> [DV] Falling >At 4:42 PM -0700 10/27/97, Kingsley Lintz wrote: >>> As a general note, with the exception of Infernal Intervention, an angel >>> *cannot* Fall accidentially. The Dissonance number rolled against >>> Third note: roll higher than 2. But if you roll a 111, something *good* >>> happens! >> But what if you roll a 112? Since the 11 counts for Falling > > Equal to or higher than. If you have 2 existing notes >of dissonance, you must roll a 2+ to avoid falling. > Whups, you're right. Move the calculated odds up a step, with 0-2 still infinite odds against, and 7 and above being the 'how do you look in long red undies' category. Still, anyone with more than 4 Dissonance is gambling beyond good sense. Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #441 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.