From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Nov 3 10:44:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA00593 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 10:44:37 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id JAA00380 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 09:45:00 -0600 Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 09:45:00 -0600 Message-Id: <199711031545.JAA00380@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #454 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, November 3 1997 Volume 01 : Number 454 In this digest: IN> [DV] Yves, Archangel of Destiny IN> Relative Power Levels IN> interesting info... Re: Jordi & T-Rex (Was Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Places - West Coast) Re: IN> About Shedim... IN> Angelic Symbology Re: IN> About Shedim... Re: IN> About Shedim... Re: Jordi & T-Rex (Was Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Places - West Coast) IN> Belial and Gabriel Re: IN> New IN Campaign ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 00:59:45 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: IN> [DV] Yves, Archangel of Destiny The world has its own destiny... and it lies in our hands. Yves is, if anything, more silent than ever, keeping his own counsel on most issues. Strangely enough, his word has maintained its power, even adding a little, since Armageddeon... apparently, even while the Earth is sliding towards its final Fate, its peoples are meeting more and more of their Destinies. It's very hard to get a handle on Yves, really... he hasn't changed that much, even though his surroundings have... the best way to demonstrate is to show what he has to say about his fellow New Heaven Superiors. LUCIFER - More than any of us, he holds the future of the Earth in his hands. He has taken the first of many steps. I think Novalis and Marc are in good hands with him. ELI - Destiny has placed him in a greater place than he dreamed. I think he will adapt well. GABRIEL - Gabriel has so much potential still, if she could only heal... I fear a very dark Fate for her if we do not stand behind her. LILITH - Her time of decision draws near. More I cannot say. NYBBAS - Perhaps something new is being born in Nybbas... Destiny has many paths, and not all of them are visible even to me. ANDREALPHUS - A sad, sad creature. A being who embodies desire for the things of the Corporeal world, who denies himself and his the greatest joys to be found in these things. Lust has a potential few realize, even himself... (Items listed only as they are changed from IN Rulebook, not including addendums in Heaven & Hell.) CHOIR/BAND ATTUNEMENTS BALSERAPHS - Yves does not use Balseraphs. He has no emnity towards them as a group; those who are charged with revealing the way to Destiny have no room for lies in their hearts. DJINN - A Djinn knows if any being they are Attuned to will meet their end from violent means (murder, suicide, etc) during the currently active period of that Attunement. CALABIM - Calabim of Yves gain a -reverse- entropy effect. Their resonance works to -reassemble- that which is broken- shattered pots, body wounds, holes punched in walls, etc. for a number of Body Points equal to the Calabim's Celestial Forces plus the Check Digit. However, if the resonance fails, the Calabim must strike out as before to -destroy- objects or take Dissonance. (The resonance is a unique twist on Calabim nature; Yves' Calabim work to destroy the acts of Fate.) HABBALAH - Habbalah of Yves may add their Celestial Forces to an attempt to force self-confidence in a victim. LILIM - Lilim of Yves can tell if granting the Need they see in a victim's eyes will move them closer to their Fate or Destiny. IMPUDITES - An Impudite of Yves may choose to -give- an Essence rather than steal it while using their Resonance; this imparts good luck for a short period on the target. (The target may change one die one digit up or down on their next roll- a 3 might become a 2 or 4.) The luck fades after the Impudite's Celestial Forces in hours. RELATIONS ALLIED: Lucifer ASSOCIATED: Eli, Gabriel NEUTRAL: All the others* HOSTILE: None* * It should be said that, although he is not Hostile to Andre - -exactly,- he reacts less favorably to Andre himself than the other Superiors. Andre's Servitors bear no unusual onus in his eyes, though. --- Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 02:07:32 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Relative Power Levels >>>I'd point out that the power of the Superior may also influence the power of the Duke - Hamet gets away with being small because Aleamon is comparatively small. A Duke of Mammon is likely to be less powerful than a Duke of Baal or Kronos.<<< Yes. That's what I meant when I pointed out that Hamet serves a minor Prince while Furfur served a major one. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 06:05:46 -0200 From: "Cristiano Guião de Freitas" Subject: IN> interesting info... Here is an interesting site for info on The Devil... http://www.wbmovies.com/devils/cmp/lucifer-c.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 12:06:53 -0500 From: Nana Yaw Ofori Subject: Re: Jordi & T-Rex (Was Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Places - West Coast) At 11:46 PM -0500 11/1/1997, you wrote: > >Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 11:47:44 -0600 (CST) >From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) >> [Quotes at this level are me, Nana Yaw Ofori. I deleted the attribution >> Accidentally.] >> >>> >>>Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:44:26 -0600 (CST) >>>From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) >>>(He saved T. Rex for Africa. Jordi likes T. Rex. }:-{D ) >>> >> >> Um, Why? Not why Vapula saved T. Rex for Africa, but why Jordi >>likes it? >> >Because Jordi can possess a few and stomp a small tribal village into paste. >}:-{D Point. Just because he uses them doesn't mean he has to like them, though, and there are plenty of reasons for him to not like them. [Snip vapula's cloning from fossilized DNA, and filling gaps with Sauropod DNA from South American subjects] [Snip descriptions of locations and diets of Raptors and Rexes] > >Thankfully one elephant lasts one T-Rex for about two weeks. Lotsa vitamins. >}:-{D Even so, Elephants mostly rely upon their size to protect them from predation, as adults. If they pack hunt, the elephants havce no chance. If they don't...depends on how thick that armor is. About how many of the Rexes are there? Can they breed? With the small number of sample individuals availiable, most of the Rexes are probably going to be clones, with nasty genetic problems that will start showing up in a couple generations. > >> Besides, if Jordi had decided he wanted to, he could have released >>real Dinosaurs himself, before Armageddon. > >Don't think so, else he would have done it -and- prevented the extinction of >other animal species. According to Heaven & Hell, Jordi's Savannah has the spirit of every kind of animal in residence., with the extinct ones on the far edges. To repopulate them, all he'd have to do would be to pick a sufficient breeding population, give them Vessels, and plonk them on the planet. Let nature take its course. Why he doesn't do that for the Dinosaurs is because they're a long time too late. The creatures on the Earth now have every much as right to be there as the Dinosaurs ever did. As the archangel of animals, he'd have to realize the importance of natural extinction, what with the average species lifetime being about 3 million years. Species push each other out of the way all the time. Humans, however, have pushed more species out of their way, than their alloted share, mainly thanks to their technology. They've lost their wild nature, they've stopped evolving, and there are just way too many of them. Replacing an old species to take up an already-held niche dooms at least one of the species to extinction, and would make him a;most as bad, in that respect, as the Humans are. He can't play favorites with one animal against another. Humans are another thing entirely, having far overstepped their bounds, in Jordi's eyes Why doesn't he bring back the species humans have killed off? Well, they're not safe. He doesn't trust the humans not to kill them off again. Maybe, when sufficient humans are dead, he'll send his servitors out to decide which ecosystems are better off with the animals they have now, and which ones are better off with the ones they had before Humans made changes. > > Jordi, I think would see them as >>a prime example of everything he wanted to prevent humanity from doing. >>Humanity's purging is still his priority, but getting rid of Vapula's >>abominations should run a close second. >> >Vapula didn't do much changing with these guys; the only real adaptation he >succeeded with was giving T-Rex an armored hide. Getting a complete, viable, sequenced set of chromosomes from bones seems very unlikely to me.There are what, 10-20 known T-Rex skeletons on earth right now, fossilization being the rare event that it is. So he takes what he can from the bones, but there's no guarantee that what he has is what makes a Rex a Rex, unless he's mapped out the entire genome, in which case, he doesn't really need the bones. Pulling sequences for the missing parts out of other animals, even if they are sauropod dinosaurs (and birds would probably be preferable), still won't make them Rexes, they'll just be as close to the originals as Vapula saw fit to make them. Anyone who'd seen the originals should easily be able to tell the diffewrence, even without the armor plating. They don't look right, they don't smell right, they don't act right, they don't sound right. Where Vapula says "close enough" is far different from where Jordi would. They are abominations, foul mockeries of what life has gone before, brought forth by Demons for their own nefarious purposes, and so on and so forth. Sane Jordi wouldn't approve at all. Whether "All humans must die!" Jordi would depends on whether he cares about how much damage is done to the rest of the world. Either way, I'm looking forward to the Jordi writeup. = http://www.io.com/~beholder ===================== nofori@pop3.utoled.edu === Nana-Yaw "The Fish" Ofori, Freelance Soldier of Heck, presenty serving Legion, Party of six thousand. Smoking or Non? ===== ><{{"> ============ "Life's a Fish, then you Fry." ======= <"}}>< ====== ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 11:47:12 -600 From: "John L Veazey" Subject: Re: IN> About Shedim... > >PS: No one ever replied, so I'll ask again: Anyone else think it's wrong > >and pointless to add Corporeal Forces to your Fighting rolls? > > Yes. > > Redneck Yes Vz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 11:47:12 -600 From: "John L Veazey" Subject: IN> Angelic Symbology Does anyone know of a book with the anchient Hebrew symbols that were used to represent angels. Ex. The Prophecy, Uriel O O O | | | | | | --------- | | O I think that's how it is. Anyway, I've seen it in another book, but I cannot remember the name of it, and I cannot find it within the vastness of my libraries. Thanx Vz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 12:41:12 EST From: "PERRY M. LLOYD" Subject: Re: IN> About Shedim... [Evilpheemy] >>Speaking as a rank-newbie; How about assulting Shedim in the Celestial >>sphere? Such an attack shouldn't scar up the host body too much. Or maybe >>Etherially? If your player-shedim is concentrating simply on the Coporeal, >>it's ignoring two-thirds of it's being. >> [Redneck] >A Celestial in Corporeal form is shielded from Celestial attacks. > >A Celestial has to be on the Etherial plane (e. g. the Marches) to engage in >Etherial combat, IIRC. > >In short, while a Celestial is in one form, they cannot be attacked by >assaults meant for its other forms. Ummmm... hate to be a thorn, but unless this has been changed by errata: "Ethereal Combat This is mental combat... or, often, attacks aimed at the mind of a helpless victim. This can take place in either the corporeal plane or ethereal plane." ^^^^^^^^^ IN pg 63 Ummmmm... a Celesial does _not_ need to be in the Marches to engage in Ethereal combat. So, Evilpheemy has made a good point. Ignoring any of the three realms mat be a bad idea. Just my two cents. Here's a thought, Pee Kitty. Since: Attacking a Corporeal being Celestially is >Impossible. Barring something REALLY special (like the Calibim of Andre >attunement), you cannot do Celestial damage to a person in a vessel; the >'meat' protects them completely. And on about Ethereal attacks: >Well, Ethereal is possible, at least. Both the NC: Tongue and Eth. Song of >Entropy allow one to do Mind hits. Actually, in THIS case that will be >pretty effective...this Shedim is anything but high in the Mind hit dept >(*one* lousy Mind hit point). > >Still, I really don't want to have to resort to someone tonguing his host >every time I wanna get him under control. :) Plus, it certainly doesn't >apply to ALL Shedim...anyone got any advice? Tonguing his host? Never mind, not familiar with this version of the song, I suppose. :) So, I suppose Eth. Song o' Entropy might just be the way to go. Of course, why couldn't one possess an Artifact that does Mind damage? "Hah! Foul demon spawn! I shall smite you with my Mind Blowing Dirk of Disbelief!! You don't exist! You don't exist!" Errr... yeah. O:::} - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd "You know you're doing good when you're bowling for pain!" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 13:50:29 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> About Shedim... >[Redneck] >>A Celestial in Corporeal form is shielded from Celestial attacks. >> >>A Celestial has to be on the Etherial plane (e. g. the Marches) to engage in >>Etherial combat, IIRC. >> >>In short, while a Celestial is in one form, they cannot be attacked by >>assaults meant for its other forms. > >Ummmm... hate to be a thorn, but unless this has been changed by errata: > > "Ethereal Combat > This is mental combat... or, often, attacks aimed at the > mind of a helpless victim. This can take place in either > the corporeal plane or ethereal plane." > ^^^^^^^^^ IN pg 63 Right, sorry. My mistake. Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 13:47:21 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: Jordi & T-Rex (Was Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Places - West Coast) >>> Um, Why? Not why Vapula saved T. Rex for Africa, but why Jordi >>>likes it? >>> >>Because Jordi can possess a few and stomp a small tribal village into paste. >>}:-{D > > Point. Just because he uses them doesn't mean he has to like them, >though, and there are plenty of reasons for him to not like them. Maybe, but Jordi's never been the sanest Superior in the world... };-{D Anyway, why wouldn't Jordi welcome these creatures back? >>Thankfully one elephant lasts one T-Rex for about two weeks. Lotsa vitamins. >>}:-{D > > Even so, Elephants mostly rely upon their size to protect them from >predation, as adults. If they pack hunt, the elephants havce no chance. If >they don't...depends on how thick that armor is. About how many of the >Rexes are there? Can they breed? With the small number of sample >individuals availiable, most of the Rexes are probably going to be clones, >with nasty genetic problems that will start showing up in a couple >generations. There are a few dozen full adults and hundreds of yearlings or two-year juveniles. They hunt in a solitary fashion. Like Velociraptor, T-Rex is a a female-dominant species, and depending on season a T-Rex will welcome or chase off a male. They are as often scavengers as hunters, and are -very- good at both jobs. All that came from H&H? Including the reasons listed? It puts a new spin on IN Jordi to me, then. Still, it just seems waaaay too easy to me for Jordi to put all those extinct species back on Earth like that. Heck, it's a struggle to get Saints with 7 Forces down to Earth again. The animals would have to -want- to go back down, as I read the Sainthood rules in Night Music, anyway. > Getting a complete, viable, sequenced set of chromosomes from bones >seems very unlikely to me.There are what, 10-20 known T-Rex skeletons on >earth right now, fossilization being the rare event that it is. There's about 50 different tyrannosaur finds in the world, I think, only about 10 or so are called T-Rex. Getting -any- DNA from a fossil bone- which would require lithefaction maintaining cellular structure down to the subcellular level, or else the preservation of organic material somewhere , is simply miraculous- which is why it happens so close to Armageddeon. - - So he takes >what he can from the bones, but there's no guarantee that what he has is >what makes a Rex a Rex, unless he's mapped out the entire genome, in which >case, he doesn't really need the bones. He hasn't. Basically, his human pawns have taken the random sequences, slipped them in in places where they don't duplicate the sauropod DNA, and seen what they got. The vast, vast majority of the resulting embryos were totally unviable. These were studied and dumped. A handful of the mix-and-matches were viable enough to be born; these were sent to the China installation for study. Most- but not all- of these monstrosities died after their release. A few wander the uplands of China, lonely, mad, sterile creatures. Eventually, the researchers would get a viable specimen which looked like what they were after.... but it's a long, inefficient, and very very cruel process. Pulling sequences for the missing >parts out of other animals, even if they are sauropod dinosaurs (and birds >would probably be preferable), still won't make them Rexes, they'll just be >as close to the originals as Vapula saw fit to make them. Well, what follows is true, as far as it goes. However, in this case Vapula wants to get as close to the truth as possible... after all, Velociraptor was the closest thing to a perfect reptilian killing machine we know of, and T-Rex is hands down the best -meat-eating- machine the Crecateous produced. Also, he's working not in his labs in Hell, but through cat's paws on the Earth. The humans are ignorant pawns, and as such have their own goals in the process which interfere in part with Vapula's normal methods. Even more than Vapula, most of the humans on Project: Carnosaur wanted true Velociraptors and T-Rexes -badly.- > Sane Jordi wouldn't approve >at all. Whether "All humans must die!" Jordi would depends on whether he >cares about how much damage is done to the rest of the world. In the long term, with the principal meat-eating race (Man) having taken such a hard hit, small populations of carnosaurs might actually be a -good- thing. In Africa, the native large meat-eaters have populations in the single thousands, whereas the plant-eaters run into the hundreds of thousands, even the millions. The elephant population isn't even the one most likely to get wiped out- rhinos would probably not survive the upheavals of the Apocalypse even without a new predator on the scene. In both Africa and North America, the reborn dinosaurs are filling ecological gaps that Man took over from other predators (wolves, bobcats and cougars on the North American plains, other large cats in East Africa). Sane Jordi would probably be conservative enough to approve; Rabid Jordi isn't looking at it in the same light, and probably won't notice until the dinosaurs either die out again or take their place in a new, rebalanced ecology. In the meantime, he's having fun with -his- T-Rexes in Africa, having them gobble up Maori like popcorn shrimp. > Either way, I'm looking forward to the Jordi writeup. It's a loooooooong ways down the road, probably if and when I have use for Jordi or one of his handful of remaining Servitors in a DV adventure or story. Jordi is not a member of New Heaven, and he's driven off most of his Servitors with his angry vendetta against humanity. Humanity's had its turn... evolve or die. Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 02:19:25 GMT From: Molt Subject: IN> Belial and Gabriel Just read the Marches for the first time (Okay, so I'm not keeping quite up to date, I'll admit it!) and read the descriptions of Gabriel and came up with the following idea: Belial is an ex-servitor of Gabriel, and he knows that at least part of her perceived insanity is due to her being the 'mouthpiece' of God. He also has worked alongside her, so knows just how powerful she can be when she's lucid. His problem is now that there is a chance of Gabriel Falling, and if she does it could 'miraculously' clear up her insanity. Whilst the idea of having his ex-Superior as his lackey is certainly a tempting one, he knows that she'd be a challenge for his Word as DP. Thus Belial has three possible solutions: Destroy Gabriel entirely before she falls (Which is the most tempting to him..), destroy or extensively weaken her as soon as she comes into his domain (Which could get raised eyebrows from Baal, Asmodeus, and maybe even Lucifer himself as to why he's blunting such a powerful weapon in their armoury), or simple make sure she doesn't Fall! Now, how would Belial go about making sure he has time to kill her before she falls, without going against the destructive nature of his own perception of Fire? Also, would any 'dissonant' servitiors of his, or Renegades be able to find out about this and maybe decide Gabriel'd be a *much* better Demon Princess of Fire? Molt. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 10:27:43 -0500 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> New IN Campaign > > But yeah, I would normally say a Duke is someone who can squish PCs without > > making the GM roll dice, and it's unlikely a demon with much less than 15 > > Forces would survive long as a Baron... > > > > -David > > > > I made one Duke, built him out of 21 forces, and I'm wondering if that is > enough. I may have to beef him up some before next session. You have an NPC that (probably) has over 12 in all his attributes and you wonder if he's tough enough? Especially since he probably has the Songs, skills, etc to match someone of his stature? Trust me, this is _not_ a big worry even if he purposely designed inefficiently... - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #454 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.