From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Nov 5 16:17:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA16038 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 1997 16:17:48 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id PAA22931 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 5 Nov 1997 15:37:41 -0600 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 15:37:41 -0600 Message-Id: <199711052137.PAA22931@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #458 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, November 5 1997 Volume 01 : Number 458 In this digest: Re: IN> [DV] Cities After the Apocalypse Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Places - West Coast Re: IN> [DV] M!ch!gan Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Places - West Coast Re: IN> About Shedim... Subject: Re: IN> [DV] M!ch!gan IN> [Pagan Victory] Introduction IN> {DARK VICTORY} In the Caverns of Stone Re: IN> [Pagan Victory] Introduction Re: IN> About Shedim... IN> {Semi-FLUFF} The Shedim SOLUTION Re: IN> {DARK VICTORY} In the Caverns of Stone IN> Yet Another Shedim Problem.... Re: IN> {DARK VICTORY} In the Caverns of Stone Re: IN> {DARK VICTORY} In the Caverns of Stone IN> Stat Maxima for NPCs Re: IN> [DV] Cities After the Apocalypse Re: IN> [Pagan Victory] Introduction Re: IN> {DARK VICTORY} In the Caverns of Stone Re: IN> {DARK VICTORY} In the Caverns of Stone Re: IN> Re: DarkAges Review Re: IN> About Shedim Re: IN> About Shedim... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 21:14:40 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> [DV] Cities After the Apocalypse >>Speaking of volcanoes, if you hadn't guessed, kiss off Mexico City and >>everyone in it... they're sitting under one of the largest ashcone volcanoes >>in the world. >> >They were toast anyway. The city is built on a basin just like L.A. They >either fried or drowned. > True, but in a basin several thousand feet above sea level. The ocean isn't exactly going to flow in and drown everyone, whereas if Pocapoceptl blows its top, the whole valley's gonna be buried. Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 21:36:45 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Places - West Coast >> Who said they don't have fat layers? }:-{D > >Look at just about any animal that hunts by speed - not very much fat >layers. It slows you down too much. Those animals that hunt by >speed in cold climates have heavy coats. Raptors most likely keep to >the tropical and semi-tropical areas (can you say Florida? I knew >you could). I'm thinking primarily of otters here, but you have a point. Still, the plains get plenty warm during the summer, and in the winter there's the backcountry of Texas and old Mexico. >> If you have someone who can produce large quantities of mercury >> fulminate, you're in business. > >It sounds like some of the larger surviving areas might have the >ability to do that anyway. It'd be a good thing to trade to the >small communitites - it's easy to transport in the amounts needed, >and is (given supply and demand) probably worth more than gold was. And most likely to get hijacked. In the Michigan writeup, it's not so much a worry- Michigan or Ontario, one of the two, have mercury sources. So does Texas, I think. Still, anybody who can mine and refine mercury or produce a substitute explosive primer can write their own ticket in the post-Apocalypse economy... Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 01:02:46 -0500 From: "Steven Ehrbar" Subject: Re: IN> [DV] M!ch!gan >>>Was Lansing's disaster coincidence? >>Nope. David did it when Infernal victory seemed inevitable [snip] >Whoa. That sounds way extreme for David, destroying a whole city to >take out a few hundred people. David didn't mean to destroy the *entire* city, just a few government buildings and such. But he couldn't get the missing Janus's help, and there really wasn't an easy way to destroy only the offending buildings with a geological attack, and David never was an expert in meteorology. So the small number of relatively weak tornadoes fed off each other and the odd winds caused by the Chicago bomb...and the entire city was ripped to shreds. So it wasn't a coincidence...but neither was it fully intentional. David would be feeling somewhat guilty about it if he wasn't being distracted by having to suffer while an evil lives. BTW, the (1990) population of the Tri-Cities (combined) is about 146,000; Flint has about 140,000 people; Grand Rapids has about 189,000 people (and its largest suburb, Wyoming, has about 64,000); Port Huron and Sarnia combine for 84,000; Kalamazoo has 80,000; and all the other surviving cities have under 50,000 each. (Thank you U.S. Census Bureau.) - -- Steven Ehrbar ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 01:06:57 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Places - West Coast > >Look at just about any animal that hunts by speed - not very much fat > >layers. It slows you down too much. Those animals that hunt by > >speed in cold climates have heavy coats. Raptors most likely keep to > >the tropical and semi-tropical areas (can you say Florida? I knew > >you could). > > I'm thinking primarily of otters here, but you have a point. Still, > the plains get plenty warm during the summer, and in the winter > there's the backcountry of Texas and old Mexico. Migration, in other words... ;-) > >It sounds like some of the larger surviving areas might have the > >ability to do that anyway. It'd be a good thing to trade to the > >small communitites - it's easy to transport in the amounts needed, > >and is (given supply and demand) probably worth more than gold was. > > And most likely to get hijacked. Actually, the return trip's more likely - it's going to be larger. But the danger of hijacking is inherent in any non-civilized area. > Still, anybody who can mine and refine mercury or produce a > substitute explosive primer can write their own ticket in the > post-Apocalypse economy... The problem is, they are likely to meet people willing to punch said ticket for them... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com In the fourth grade, Mrs. Watkins gave me a D in Mathematics. I was not a happy camper. Now she's a blood thirsty demon from the seventh plane of hell, and I have a Mini gun with 2000 rounds of HESH ammo. Mrs. Watkins...Class is back in session. - Heavy Ordinance (http://members.iquest.net/~ericg/games/heavy.html) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 02:04:02 +0000 From: Sam Kington Subject: Re: IN> About Shedim... Kingsley Lintz wrote: [snip] > The Song of Celestial Charm would work -GREAT-, I'd say. (Knock > his Will down until he's bouncing off even that heavenhound Servant your > Malakim thought he was being so clever to pick up with a Will/1...) But > it doesn't really help the problem..it's another, "Shedim hunters can do > this," [snip] Anyone who has a Will-based resonance will probably be taking the Celestial song of Charm, and most non-combat characters will because they'll tend to have a fair few Celestial forces, and any other types of songs will just be so difficult they're not worth it. Of my three (current) players, two have 4 Celestial forces and one has 5; as a result, two of them have Celestial Charm/3. It's not just Shedim-hunters that have Cel. Charm. Here's a possible way to slow down a Shedite: a Kyriotate, or the Song of Possession. Celestial Charm the Shedite (I assume you can Charm just the Shedite once you know there's one there - after all, you can always *try* and Charm a host, it just won't work normally because there won't be a Shedite or a Kyrio in there); then send the Kyrio in there to wrestle control from the Shedite, or do the Song of Possession. The Shedite will then be out of the host in Celestial form; this is a great opportunity to go Celestial (*bang* - OK, it's noisy) and start whaling on the Shedite. If someone rushes in and grapples him, he can't move very fast, and he can either choose to run for another host (tricky with everyone hitting him as he goes - he's more or less prone), or stay and fight (and the minutes start ticking on). Assuming you've got several angels against one Shedite, he's going to be seriously damaged, possibly maybe lose a Force or even be Celestially killed. After all, with a reduced Will most angels will be able to hit him without him being able to hit back, it will be harder to break out of a lock, and he won't hit as hard. Also, they're likely to have a higher Perception than him *naturally*, so they'll move faster. Alternatively, it could just drag on until he gets called back to Hell. Either way, the Shedite is going to be in *serious* trouble. (If he's anywhere near getting into a host, send the Kyrio in to possess the host before he does. The Kyrio should be able to move faster by vacating the host, speeding towards the Shedite's destination, and barging in. During all this time, the other angels will be hitting for all they're worth. The Celestial Song of Light would do wonders at this point.) Oh, and plenty of angels have no qualms about hitting a mortal enough to drive the Shedite out before they kill the host. The more I think about it, the happier I am that I've planned my players to have a run-in with a Shedite. (Shedite of Saminga, takes people over and causes road accidents. Is trying for the word of Dangerous Driving.) They're really geared for raw Celestial combat and there will be more of them than him. Should make for a spectacular fight :-). Sam - -- There are *my* opinions, dammit, and let no-one say otherwise. Home page: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ INWO Homebrew: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/cgi/illuminati If you want to lose your faith, make friends with a priest. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 02:54:30 -0500 From: "Steven Ehrbar" Subject: Subject: Re: IN> [DV] M!ch!gan >Electricity and fuel have to travel over physical distances. Unless each >city has its own power plant (which it could, I'll admit), they could be >cut off from power by hostile neighbors... or have their fuel supplies >roadblocked. The Tri-Cities/Flint and the Grand Rapids state are sufficently separated geographically that IRL they already have separate power facilities (in fact, IIRC, Grand Rapids' power company is Consumers Energy, and Flint has Detroit Edison. Also, if the Apocalpse happens after Michigan deregulates electricity, most of the potential competitors plan numerous natural-gas powered mini-generators). The same geographic separation would make it militarily imposssible for either to cut the other off from gas/oil wells. The Muskegon-Grand Rapids rivalry has more potential along these lines. Muskegon is closer to the gas wells, and Grand Rapids has the power plants. However, Grand Rapids has the military advantage and access to the wells south of Holland. Muskegon is pretty much doomed to collapse anyway...this is just another reason for it to happen. >True enough, though I doubt the Huron-Erie connection on the St. Laurence >Seaway is working... Most Huron-Erie traffic goes through the St. Clair river to Lake St. Clair, then through the Detroit River to Lake Erie. (Lake St. Clair is sorta like a sixth Great Lake, although it's significantly smaller than any of the actual Great Lakes). So, yes, Lake Erie is cut off from Lake Huron, by the creatures of the Detroit-Windsor disater area. But Bay City (one of the Tri-Cities of the "State of Michigan") is on Saginaw Bay, an inlet of Lake Huron -- and Port Huron/Sarnia is at the southernmost point of Lake Huron/northernmost point of the St. Clair River. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 09:02:05 -0600 (CST) From: Dorothy Bixler Subject: IN> [Pagan Victory] Introduction Well, I'm most of the way done working out a rough outline of what all will happen(finally). I'm sorry this took to get to the list. It looks like this will be coming out in six parts. Each one will have a short story at the beginning. After the story I'll put in a brief explanation of the mythology/theology parts of the story [otherwise known as who the heck _was_ that God ;) ] and then a section of what's happened in the Final Battle so far. If anyone has a favorite deity they would like thrown into one of the stories, let me know and I'll try to work them in (since she seems like such a popular lady, I made sure to include Bast in on the fun). I hope to have the first part or two done by bedtime tonight (Wednesday). *Dorothy Michelle Bixler * mudmh10@ecom.ecn.bgu.edu* "Gidget, have you been laying with the Horned One again?" -MST3K's Mike from "The Thing the Couldn't Die" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 11:48:45 -0500 (EST) From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: IN> {DARK VICTORY} In the Caverns of Stone The troop of gremlins, imps, snots, and frotlings bounded, slithered, crawled, and walked through David's Citadel, squabbling nervously among themselves. Their leader, a minor Calabite was worried. They had been wandering around in this pit for what semed like weeks, looking for the fabulous store of Angelic Hearts that the Princes said had to be down here in the caverns which once belonged to the Archangel of Stone. Grackle, the Calabite, a servitor of Kronos, didn't care about the Hearts any more. He just wanted out of these caves. His supply of demonlings was getting low, and he wasn't sure why. They'd fall into a sudden crevasse, or disappear around a corner, and never show up again. If it weren't for the battle reports, he'd be convinced that there were angels down here, waiting for him. As his thoughts grew even more gloomy, he heard an ominous crack. As he screamed at his troop to move, the rumble of a cave-in thundered around him. His final lunge, aided by a bit of well-applied entropy, got him clear. But he was standing alone. None of the rest of the troop had made it. Then he realized he wasn't alone. A pair of shadowy-winged figures were there, jet wings glowing against the Stygian darkness. "But you're all dead or captured!" he wailed. "Some of us still exist outside of slavery." The base rumble came from the figure on the left, as he raised a gigantic club. "Especially the Words of Guerilla Warfare and Commandoes," added the lilting voice of the figure on the left, as her sword swept out and down. Seconds later, there was silence in the empty cavern. Days later, Kronos decided that his servants weren't coming back, and sent another group of troublemakers down. * * * * * * Any comments on this scenario? Mark(who may write up the Angels if Redneck think's its OK.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 09:23:10 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Knop Subject: Re: IN> [Pagan Victory] Introduction > brief explanation of the mythology/theology parts of the story [otherwise > known as who the heck _was_ that God ;) ] Oolon Callouphid, or however his name was spell, clearly needs to be invoked at this cruial juncture. > If anyone has a favorite deity they > would like thrown into one of the stories, let me know and I'll try to > work them in (since she seems like such a popular lady, I made sure to > include Bast in on the fun). I hope to have the first part or two done by > bedtime tonight (Wednesday). Although in real life a practicing Christian, I seem to frequently be performing the rites of the great god Procrastinus. I don't suppose he could make it in? (Procrastinus, in the Far Marches, says, "Yeah, yeah, leave me alone, I'll be there in an eon or two.") - -Rob === Rob Knop === rknop@crl.com ==== http://www.wco.com/~rknop === Amiga PGP information at http://www.wco.com/~rknop/amiga_pgp Visit the Dramatic Exchange at http://www.dramex.org/ ================================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 10:27:26 -0700 (MST) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> About Shedim... > Kingsley Lintz wrote: > > The Song of Celestial Charm would work -GREAT-, I'd say. (Knock > > it doesn't really help the problem..it's another, "Shedim hunters can do > > this," > Anyone who has a Will-based resonance will probably be taking the Ie. other Demons, and Kyriotates. > Celestial song of Charm, and most non-combat characters will because > they'll tend to have a fair few Celestial forces, and any other types of > songs will just be so difficult they're not worth it. Of my three Presuming they don't have other things to spend the points on. The Songs of Charm ARE powerful enough that it's easy to say, "Any well-rounded character should probably pick one up," but hey..so's a good Vessel or two, maybe a Body Bag, a good half dozen other Songs, a powerful Role...36 points goes fast. The point IS, that while yes, there are definitely ways to take care of a Shedite, even in a crowd, if the group is PREPARED for one...if they just happen not to be, there suddenly really isn't. Kyriotates present the same problem for Demonic groups, only moreso, and no other Choir/Band does. There are one or two Superior Attunements that work well against them, but just HOW MANY Seraphs of Destiny are out there? I don't THINK every Earthbound group of Angels can have one. (Except possibly in a Bright Victory universe...) Kyriotates and Shedim counter each other well enough, but that runs into problems more in terms of PC's -- to have one in the group, you have to have a player who wanted to run one, and those two are odd enough that that's not something a game can count on. A couple of Songs can do it, but as I note--if you have them, great. If you DON'T...what do you DO? > Oh, and plenty of angels have no qualms about hitting a mortal enough to > drive the Shedite out before they kill the host. Sure, but mostly the dumb ones. As was noted by the guy who started this thread pointed out straight off; there's no sure way to KNOW when the Shedim has jumped host, so they're likely to end up killing the human in doing it. (PARTICULARLY depending on how the GM handles that Body Hit discrepancy. A high CorpF Shedim, who had, say, 40 Hits, gets knocked down to two and jumps out, and suddenly you've got this human host with about 3 Body Hits that's just absorbed 38...) > The more I think about it, the happier I am that I've planned my players > to have a run-in with a Shedite. (Shedite of Saminga, takes people over Your players sound equipped for it, with that heavy a Celestial contingent, so yeah; have fun. The overall Shedim problem, though, I'm afraid extends a little beyond your particular group; it didn't sound like his were. > and causes road accidents. Is trying for the word of Dangerous Driving.) Heh..I don't think I've put up my idea for the Demon of Minor Traffic Infarctions...{Yes, "Infarction." He wanted Minor Traffic Infractions, and Malphas agreed, but Kronos put it in `wrong', because, well, the DoMTI had cut off one of his favored Servitors the week before..} ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 10:49:03 -0700 (MST) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: IN> {Semi-FLUFF} The Shedim SOLUTION Deus Ex Masheddim Malakim of Destiny CorpF3 {Strength/7 Agility/5} EthF1 {Intelligence/2 Precision/2} CelF5 {Will/10 Perception/10} Vessel/3 (Role: Exterminator/3) Songs: Attraction (Celestial/5), Charm (Celestial/6), Light (Celestial/5), Possession/4 Numinous Corpus: Claws/6 Skills: Dodge/5, Fighting/6 Attunements: Malakim of Destiny, Seraphim of Destiny Deus Ex Masheddim (Or, as he likes to think of himself, the "God of Ousting Shedim" -- note that he has no Latin or literary skill) could probably be a good friend of K.K.'s. He roams the world looking for everyone's least favorite Band of Demons, the Shedim. When he finds one...he Celestial Charms it into oblivion, uses Possession to kick it out of its current Host, and then pounces and rips it to nothing on the Celestial. (He's usually sure to use that Charm on its Perception as well as its Will, so it can't run either.) He's been known to, having heard a Demonic Disturbance in the symphony, show up, see three Calabim beating up a Cherub, and sigh. "Damn," he'll say, and turn around and walk off. He's three times now petitioned Yves for the Word of Kicking Shedim Butt, and is beginning to suspect Michael already has one. If that's the case, he's going to ask for the Word of Ripping Those Bloody Shedim Into Celestial Gobbets, but when he mentioned this, Yves informed him, in a very calm and rational tone, that that was getting a bit clunky. {Note that this isn't quite a `balanced starting character'...he's got a little over 50 character points, but...I offer him up for amusement and for any GMs who have a Shedim causing too much trouble, whether PC or otherwise. He wanders almost as much as an Ofanim, and Shedim fear his name. Except Shedim of Kobal, who think it's kind of a cute name, but still fear HIM. He has -NO- sense of humor, or of proportion. And, in fairness, though labeled Semi-Fluff...he's definitely not fluffy.} [For that matter, you could MAKE him a good starting character just by knocking his Vessel down a notch and trimming his Songs a point or two each, and he'd still be pretty obnoxious, but...*shrug*] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 14:11:13 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> {DARK VICTORY} In the Caverns of Stone "The troop of gremlins, imps, snots, and frotlings..." Frotlings? I can hardly wait for the description. I expect I *can* wait for the description of snots... Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 14:11:56 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael C. Nutt" Subject: IN> Yet Another Shedim Problem.... ArchBeth, I *think* I may have something here that calls for an Official Line Editor ruling, or at the least a "clarification" in the Errata. Point the first: Shedim can only possess humans... not animals, and not celestial Vessels. Point the second: Humans do not possess Discord as such. They can *act* in certain ways, but they aren't considered to have Discord like a celestials do. Here's the problem. IN core book, p. 168, "Shedim of Gluttony": "The Shedim who serve Haagenti may add the level of a person's Corporeal Discord to any roll made against him as a host. And if the host is Gluttonous, his resistance rolls are reduced by the demon's Corporeal Forces!" When you read this in light of the two points above, you get the impression Haagenti doesn't like his Shedim very much . Comments? Michael Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 13:33:06 -0600 From: tom timberlake Subject: Re: IN> {DARK VICTORY} In the Caverns of Stone MarkDEddy@aol.com wrote: [snip] > Then he realized he wasn't alone. A pair of shadowy-winged figures were > there, jet wings glowing against the Stygian darkness. "But you're all dead > or captured!" he wailed. > "Some of us still exist outside of slavery." The base rumble came from the > figure on the left, as he raised a gigantic club. > "Especially the Words of Guerilla Warfare and Commandoes," added the lilting > voice of the figure on the left, as her sword swept out and down. > Seconds later, there was silence in the empty cavern. > Days later, Kronos decided that his servants weren't coming back, and sent > another group of troublemakers down. > > * * * * * * > > Any comments on this scenario? Cool, I like it and would like to see the angels. If you don't list-post it, I would like a private copy. tom timberlake, sometimes role of James the Stone Malakim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 13:53:53 -0600 From: Bob the Dancing Monkey Subject: Re: IN> {DARK VICTORY} In the Caverns of Stone Ooops. Sorry about the un[snip]ness of that... - -Drew ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 14:11:50 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael C. Nutt" Subject: IN> Stat Maxima for NPCs ArchBeth wrote: >John Karakesh wrote: >>Emily Dresner wrote: >>> I made one Duke, built him out of 21 forces, and I'm wondering if that is >>> enough. I may have to beef him up some before next session. >> >> You have an NPC that (probably) has over 12 in all his >>attributes > > > >There may be things that having more than 18 Forces does, but >it's not allowing non-Superiors to break the 12-max limits. Um, ArchBeth, I hate to break it to you, but there's precedent. _Heaven and Hell_, p. 110. Beartador only has 16 Forces, and has a stat in excess of 12. Karne, on p. 101, only has 15 Forces, and has *two* stats in excess of 12. There's Staciel on p. 95, and Triel on p. 96, and Nurbis on p. 86, as well. Is this going to be the subject of a lot of errata? (Boy, it feels weird to type "*only* has 16 Forces"...) Michael Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 12:47:07 -0600 From: tom timberlake Subject: Re: IN> [DV] Cities After the Apocalypse Jeff Miller wrote: > > At 11:24 PM 11/3/97 -0700, you wrote: > > > >> >And as we know, velociraptors travel in packs... > >> > >> That's what pipe bombs and mortars are for. > > According to the movie, actually, that's what the uneven bars are > >for. Go figure. (Great...the Idahoans give up potatos and start up a > >brisk trade in velociraptor luggage accessories.) > > > Ya know.... I can actually see that happening. > If parallel bars are vampire's garlic to velociraptors, then OKC is all right [and then some]! To the north, in Edmond, is the gymnastics club that spawned Shannon Miller. To the south, in Norman, are the gymnasts being trained by the husband and wife team of Bart Conner and Nadia Komanich[sp?] and the university where Shannon Miller is taking classes. No V-raptor, no matter how hungry, would come anywhere near OKC--they are just too clever and the area is too deadly. It would be like Dracula attending the Dullsville, Whereever, Annual Garlic Festival. And if the much bandied-about gymnastics hall-of-fame/training center is ever constructed...... tom, living safely about 10 miles north of Norman and midway between two high schools, timberlake ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 13:27:18 -0600 From: tom timberlake Subject: Re: IN> [Pagan Victory] Introduction Dorothy Bixler wrote: [snip] If anyone has a favorite deity they > would like thrown into one of the stories, let me know and I'll try to > work them in (since she seems like such a popular lady, I made sure to > include Bast in on the fun). I hope to have the first part or two done by > bedtime tonight (Wednesday). > Anubis, please. Make that pretty please in tight leather covered with Chocolate? tom timberlake, who just made himself hungry and is going to attack the Kitchen....... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 13:54:49 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> {DARK VICTORY} In the Caverns of Stone > * * * * * * > >Any comments on this scenario? > (1) The two Malakim you've named here seem more likely to be of Michael's bunch than David's... but that's just me. (2) Hell is a bit better organized than to send one little squad into a Cathederal and then wait a few days to hear from it. SOP is to *flood* the Cathederals with a wave of troopers, clearing out every corner at once and giving defenders no time to regroup or tend to wounds. Despite this, the scenario is a possibility... > Mark(who may write up the Angels if Redneck think's its OK.) Redneck (it's a free country, but I don't have use for 'em right now) Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 13:53:16 -0600 From: Bob the Dancing Monkey Subject: Re: IN> {DARK VICTORY} In the Caverns of Stone At 11:48 AM 11/5/97 -0500, you wrote: > > The troop of gremlins, imps, snots, and frotlings bounded, slithered, >crawled, and walked through David's Citadel, squabbling nervously among >themselves. Their leader, a minor Calabite was worried. They had been >wandering around in this pit for what semed like weeks, looking for the >fabulous store of Angelic Hearts that the Princes said had to be down here in >the caverns which once belonged to the Archangel of Stone. > Grackle, the Calabite, a servitor of Kronos, didn't care about the Hearts >any more. He just wanted out of these caves. His supply of demonlings was >getting low, and he wasn't sure why. They'd fall into a sudden crevasse, or >disappear around a corner, and never show up again. If it weren't for the >battle reports, he'd be convinced that there were angels down here, waiting >for him. > As his thoughts grew even more gloomy, he heard an ominous crack. As he >screamed at his troop to move, the rumble of a cave-in thundered around him. >His final lunge, aided by a bit of well-applied entropy, got him clear. But >he was standing alone. None of the rest of the troop had made it. > Then he realized he wasn't alone. A pair of shadowy-winged figures were >there, jet wings glowing against the Stygian darkness. "But you're all dead >or captured!" he wailed. > "Some of us still exist outside of slavery." The base rumble came from the >figure on the left, as he raised a gigantic club. > "Especially the Words of Guerilla Warfare and Commandoes," added the lilting >voice of the figure on the left, as her sword swept out and down. > Seconds later, there was silence in the empty cavern. > Days later, Kronos decided that his servants weren't coming back, and sent >another group of troublemakers down. > > * * * * * * > >Any comments on this scenario? > > Mark(who may write up the Angels if Redneck think's its OK.) > > > > > > Oh please do write those two up. If anyon needs them, it's the PReservers in this universe... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 14:33:39 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Re: DarkAges Review Len Undy quoted "Maha Shiva": "Lucifer was confused with Satan by a misreading of Isaiah 14:12 during the translation of the bible from Latin to English for King James The mistake wasn't cought until recently when the bible was retranslated from Latin to Modern English." He is referring to the passage that starts, "How art thou fallen from Heaven, O Lucifer, Son of the Morning!" It is part of a longer passage that starts at the beginning ofr chapter 13, and is a denunciation of Babylon. "Lucifer" is no mistranslation, just the phrase "shining one," left in the Latin. The context makes it clear that, literally, "Lucifer" is the king of Babylon. However, since "Babylon" is used in Revelation as a code name for "Evil Empire," and since the language of Isaiah is hyperbolic, and since people of that period considered the literal meaning to be only one of many and not necessarily the most important, it was common to decide that "king of Babylon" is a code phrase for the Devil. King James English is not "Middle English." It's modern English, though it is of course somewhat archaic. It's the same English as Shakespeare's. "Any Catholic could have told the prods they were wrong, but the two didn't really share beliefs." So far as I know, this belief was widely entertained by both Catholics and Protestants, who, contrary to the quip, share a great deal of belief (e.g. everything in the Nicene Creed), and have been in constant "dialogue" (even if it often involved a lot of yelling) for five hundred years. "In other Old Testament books (Job, I Chronicles, Psalms, Zechariah) the term also designates an office; and the angel investing that office is not apostate or fallen. This happens early in the New Testament times and writings when we get Satan , the Prince of evil and enemy of God, and is characterized by such titles as "prince of this world" and "prince of power and air" This shift probably happened well before the time of Christ. As I understand it, it probably happened shortly after the end of the Babylonian Captivity, when the Jews were ruled by the much more accomodating Persians, who were Zoroastrian, a religion that features a very Devil-like god of evil, Ahriman. Since Jewish prophets hailed Cyrus -- conqueror of Babylon -- as the God-sent instrument of deliverance, and since Cyrus's Zoroastrian religion is very *like* the monotheism of the Jews, it was natural that the Jews should borrow some details from Zoroastrianism. If, in fact, that's what happened. It's all very conjectural. "The Talmud claims that Satan was created on the 6th day of Creation ..." Actually, it is amazing how little Christian theologians occupy themselves with details like this. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 14:11:53 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael C. Nutt" Subject: Re: IN> About Shedim ArchBeth wrote: >At 3:11 PM -0500 10/31/97, Pee Kitty wrote: >>One of the players in my demon game (which hasn't started just yet) is a >>Shedim. Thinking about it last night, I have a few worries...the >>corruption and evil parts don't bug me a bit (I wouldn't be running a >>demon game if they did), but just game balance-wise... >> >>How is a group of angels supposed to deal with a Shedite in the body of >>some innocent 13-y/o? > >Sleepy time? Yep, it's hard. Shedim are nasty little pests. Worse >than Austin Waterroaches. Knock the kid out and be ready with >the Song of Healing. Or perhaps tie the kid up for a few days >so that the Shedite *can't* corrupt him. > >Either way, we've got kidnapping or violence... Follow the kid around in your *own* "kid" vessel, and keep him from doing anything nasty. Nobody said every angel has to appear as an Arnold Schwarzenegger lookalike... >>Let's assume the Shedite has 28 hits (my player has 40, but that's >>atypical for Shedim). You pump 21 points of damage into him with your >>Uzis; on his turn, he posesses someone else...if they're within line of >>sight, he can do it (maybe at a penalty, but most PCs buy around Will 10 >>for their Shedim anyways). So next turn, the angels will probably not even >>realize what happened (no disturbance, no visible effects), and will keep >>attacking the human until disturbance rings out (unless the answer to the >>above question is 'yes', in which case even THAT won't clue them). If and >>when they finally realize where the Shedite is, he's back to full hit >>points! > Evil, aren't they? Yes, Shedim need sneaky angels to deal >with them. But toss a few Seraphim of Destiny at them and watch >them gripe. Have a few Kyrios around to try to kick them out, >maybe? Well, you need to remember that anyone taking *that* much damage in one turn is quite likely to be stunned, and therefore can't do anything on the next round, while you can still keep pumping bullets into him. Anyway, according to p.152, Shedim manifest in their celestial forms when leaving a host, and any reasonably perceptive angels ought to notice this (mechanics on p. 53... basically, it boils down to Perception + Shedim's Celestial Forces + 2 for the needed roll to see him leave the host). If you allow the Shedite to attempt to posess another host on the same round that he leaves the old one (which *I* wouldn't do, but there doesn't seem to be canon answer either way), he's still got, in the example you gave above with a Will of 10, a 1 in 6 chance of failing to possess the new host if he's at least 10 yards away (-1 for distance). Not a guaranteed shot by any means. >>PS: No one ever replied, so I'll ask again: Anyone else think it's wrong >>and pointless to add Corporeal Forces to your Fighting rolls? > > Not really. Not after seeing Hamet with his 108 >hit points in his *weak* vessel. To me, it seems inconsistent with prior precedent with all other skills, so I just ignore it. Anyway, there is text precedent for ignoring Corporeal Forces in the Automatic Success section on p. 39. Michael Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 13:21:27 -0600 From: tom timberlake Subject: Re: IN> About Shedim... Sam Kington wrote: > > Kingsley Lintz wrote: > [snip] > Anyone who has a Will-based resonance will probably be taking the > Celestial song of Charm, and most non-combat characters will because > they'll tend to have a fair few Celestial forces, and any other types of > songs will just be so difficult they're not worth it. Of my three > (current) players, two have 4 Celestial forces and one has 5; as a > result, two of them have Celestial Charm/3. It's not just Shedim-hunters > that have Cel. Charm. > > Here's a possible way to slow down a Shedite: a Kyriotate, or the Song > of Possession. Celestial Charm the Shedite (I assume you can Charm just > the Shedite once you know there's one there - after all, you can always > *try* and Charm a host, it just won't work normally because there won't > be a Shedite or a Kyrio in there); then send the Kyrio in there to > wrestle control from the Shedite, or do the Song of Possession. > > The Shedite will then be out of the host in Celestial form; this is a > great opportunity to go Celestial (*bang* - OK, it's noisy) and start > whaling on the Shedite. If someone rushes in and grapples him, he can't > move very fast, and he can either choose to run for another host (tricky > with everyone hitting him as he goes - he's more or less prone), or stay > and fight (and the minutes start ticking on). Assuming you've got > several angels against one Shedite, he's going to be seriously damaged, > possibly maybe lose a Force or even be Celestially killed. After all, > with a reduced Will most angels will be able to hit him without him > being able to hit back, it will be harder to break out of a lock, and he > won't hit as hard. Also, they're likely to have a higher Perception than > him *naturally*, so they'll move faster. > > Alternatively, it could just drag on until he gets called back to Hell. > Either way, the Shedite is going to be in *serious* trouble. > > (If he's anywhere near getting into a host, send the Kyrio in to possess > the host before he does. The Kyrio should be able to move faster by > vacating the host, speeding towards the Shedite's destination, and > barging in. During all this time, the other angels will be hitting for > all they're worth. The Celestial Song of Light would do wonders at this > point.) > > Oh, and plenty of angels have no qualms about hitting a mortal enough to > drive the Shedite out before they kill the host. > > The more I think about it, the happier I am that I've planned my players > to have a run-in with a Shedite. (Shedite of Saminga, takes people over > and causes road accidents. Is trying for the word of Dangerous Driving.) > They're really geared for raw Celestial combat and there will be more of > them than him. Should make for a spectacular fight :-). You may also want to remember that the Song of Thunder does damage on all 3 levels of reality without the victim or the performer having to go Etherial or Celestial. I could almost pity that poor 1 Mind hit Shedite [almost, but not quite]. Just make sure your allies are under Eth and Corp Shields before you cut loose with this, since it does not distinguish between friends and foes. Etherial Entropy will also do mind hits without Etheriality of target or performer and is more targetable [is there such a word?] than Thunder, so anyone who took this Song with thoughts of using it as a MIB-style memory eraser will find themselves well armed against a low Eth, low Mind Shedite, once they figure out who/what he is. tom t. "tell me please, what's signal and what's noise?" ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #458 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.