From owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Wed Nov 12 11:34:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA15926 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 1997 11:34:38 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id KAA16009 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 12 Nov 1997 10:57:49 -0600 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 10:57:49 -0600 Message-Id: <199711121657.KAA16009@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #468 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@LISTS.IO.COM Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, November 12 1997 Volume 01 : Number 468 In this digest: IN> Vessels and possession... Re: IN> Anton S. LaVey Re: IN> Pronouns Re: IN> Pronouns Re: IN> Anachronistic Words Re: IN> Anachronistic Words Re: IN> Anton S. LaVey Re: IN> Vessels and possession... Re: IN> The honorable Rulius Advocatus, Esq. Re: IN> Couple of Questions... IN> Dice? Re: IN> The honorable Rulius Advocatus, Esq. Re: IN> The honorable Rulius Advocatus, Esq. IN> www.What The $&#*?!.com Re: IN> Vessels and possession... Re: IN> Evangelism (for gamers) Re: IN> Couple of Questions... Re: IN> IN Character Sheet .BMP Re: IN> Evangelism (for gamers) Re: IN> Anton S. LaVey Re: IN> Wording Re: IN> Kyrio Telegraph IN> The God Spot IN> Claudine, Angel of Forgiveness Re: IN> Dice? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 15:04:28 -0500 From: "bruce dykes" Subject: IN> Vessels and possession... In working on rev0.2 of the Slayer Project, I find I need an answer about possession. If I were to use a Kyriotate, I'd have to gut IN canon (which I'm willing to do, but not if I can come up with a more elegant and rules friendly answer). In short, I need to put an angel in long term residence in a vampire's body. Actual control of the body is not necessary as it makes a more romantic story element if the vampire is repntant and now fighting for good. Any thoughts? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 12:16:23 -0800 From: "Keith Phemister" Subject: Re: IN> Anton S. LaVey >his death certificate has been changed to October 31 and that his daughter put a curse on >him Yep that sounds like rumors all right. Though, your daughter putting a curse on you, either before or after your death. Sort of defines "dysfunctional" doesn't it? >both of which have been stated as false by the Church of Satan on-line rep It's not the rumors that caused me to raise an eyebrow, it's the concept of the "Church of Satan" having an on-line rep. I guess customer service would be lousy. (>net surfing schmuck: umm. excuse me, but my computer seems to have contracted the Hellraiser virus after visiting your site. Could you help me? >Satan Rep: Contracted a virus? hmmmmmm. Would you say that your hard drive has been... corrupted? >NS schmuck: Oh yes, most definitely. Now, about that anti-virus program you have listed on your site? >Satan Rep: (chuckling malevolantly...) Oh. that, I'm sooo sorry, but it seems that we LIED about that little detail. But if you sign right here, and initial there, we can set you up with a new Home Computer system, for a reasonable price.... (grinns wickedly)). Keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 13:47:03 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Knop Subject: Re: IN> Pronouns > (I've got a character in a PBEM who has a female vessel, but is > a bit closer to an "it" celestially. Hasn't had the vessel long > enough to acquire much gender identity.) I've seen it :) That, plus another, was part of what prompted my curiosity about what pronouns people used. - -Rob === Rob Knop === rknop@crl.com ==== http://www.wco.com/~rknop === Amiga PGP information at http://www.wco.com/~rknop/amiga_pgp Visit the Dramatic Exchange at http://www.dramex.org/ ================================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 16:42:48 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Pronouns > Here's my theory: if the angel or demon tends to think of himself as > being more masculine or feminine, then use "he" or "she." If the angel > or demon is in a vessel, use the pronoun corresponding to the gender of > the pronoun. (This means I would have used "he" for the Habbalite in the > Trial.) Of course, things can get a touch confusing if a celestial has > multiple vessels of different genders, but presumably they are used to > this sort of thing. > > If the celestial, however, is in celestial form, and doesn't consider > itself to be either more masculine or more femenine (and seems to have no > preference when it comes to vessels), then use "it". (Kyrios and Shedim > probably always have to be called "it".) > > Thoughts? > In general, my feeling is more or less with yours. It depends on the player and the NPC, and in general, the character as a whole. The characters usually choose gender in alignment with their vessels of the time. IF they are more comfortable with "it", then so be it. I can easily see a Kyrio calling itself a "concept", and a concept has no gender. On the other hand, is my Lilim NPC who prefers the male over the female vessel (it has both), and keeps confusing the PCs. If asked, the answer would be, "I'm an aggressive bisexual, so what difference does it make?" - - Em, Demon of Balseraphness ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 17:58:27 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Anachronistic Words At 3:06 PM -0600 11/11/97, Redneck Gaijin wrote: >>At 6:34 PM -0600 11/10/97, Redneck Gaijin wrote: >>>>Renegades and Outcasts keep Words. Fallen or Redeemed loses it. >>> >>>Um, isn't it also possible for angels and demons to be stripped of their >>>Words as well? I know of at least one canonical example of the latter in >>>Night Music... >> >>(Night Music? There's one in H&H...) >> >Remember everyone's cayenne friend, the Once and Future Demon of Hot Sauce? >}:-{D Oh, right. I was remembering someone else... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 12:47:43 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> Anachronistic Words At 10:04 AM 11/11/97 -0500, you wrote: >Jo Hart wrote: > >> I'm sort of confused about what an Angel of Autumn would really need >> to do to promote its word, given that Autumn will happen anyway. > >In the article, the Angel and its servitors got additional essence >for things like autumn weather coming early or lingering late, or >per number of fields harvested and such like. Of course, that put >it in direct competition with the Angels of Summer and Winter. > Another way to look at it is to take it further into the ideas that the words embody. Autumn: Going out with a blaze of glory, preparing for hard times, etc. Winter: Overcoming adversity, biding one's time Spring: Growth, renual, etc. Summer: Life, good times, plenty Thus, an angel of Autumn would be weaker in other seasons but they would still have something to do since their word covers more than the literal season. Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 17:25:08 -0600 (CST) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> Anton S. LaVey > >both of which have been stated as false by the Church of Satan on-line rep > > It's not the rumors that caused me to raise an eyebrow, it's the concept of > the "Church of Satan" having an on-line rep. I guess customer service > would be lousy. (>net surfing schmuck: umm. excuse me, but my computer While amusing, you're thinking of the wrong type of Satanism. Try the next aisle over, right by the "Hollywood Voodoo" section. > Keith Oops da Ogre, besides, that would be Mr. Gates doing that... mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 19:38:02 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Vessels and possession... At 3:04 PM -0500 11/11/97, bruce dykes wrote: >In short, I need to put an angel in long term residence in a vampire's >body. Actual control of the body is not necessary as it makes a more >romantic story element if the vampire is repntant and now fighting for >good. Bound Discord? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 17:21:17 -0600 (CST) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> The honorable Rulius Advocatus, Esq. > No. The rules are there for GMs who want to know how to determine a random > chance for such things. Nowhere in the rulebook does it say "You cannot > decide for yourself whether or not another celestial hears a disturbance, > based on the needs of the story." The Golden Rule of Gaming is still in effect, after all. > No one *expects* you to do any such thing. No one *expects* you to let a > die roll determine whether or not someone's attunement works -- you can > make that an arbitrary GM decision too, and certainly no one at Steve > Jackson Games will tell you "Hand in your In Nomine book, you heretic!" Exactly. I tend to roll a lot more dice in an IN game than any other, but that's just because I love when Interventions come up. Due to the sadistic glee with which Dotti watches me try to figure out what happens when I'm GMing, she doesn't complain over the dice-rolling either. And if the Gaming Police were rounding up offenders, they would lose me as help on the web page since I happily ignore canon in my personal campaign when it suits my purposes. > This is not some radical new idea, Ijon. Every experienced GM improvises > with the rules, I believe, and does not let die rolls overwhelm the story. > (In fact, that would be one of my definitions of "experienced GM".) Well, that would depend on your definition of "experienced GM". I know some Gms who've been GM for years who still live by the dice... > So I'm really not sure what your complaint is. You think there are too many > rules and too many tables in In Nomine? That's a matter of personal > taste. There are games which have a lot more rules than In Nomine, and > games which have much fewer. And this pretty much sums up my opinion for me. Thank you, Mr. Edelstein, for the good comments. > -David Oops da Ogre, I'm agreeing with David. The end is nigh. ;'} mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 07:47:31 +1100 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> Couple of Questions... Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >2. Both of Zadkiel's Servitor Attunement's refer to the check digit. > >What's the target number? The Angel's resonance? I thought Attunements > >didn't require a d666 roll. > > They don't, usually -- just roll the check digit. Hmm... seems clumsy. I'd be happier if it was based off the angel's Forces. Oh well. > Okay, so Yves is the Destiny of God and Kronos is God's Fate. Cool, > >nice idea. Does that mean that celestials have fates and destinies? I > >had thought they didn't - previously it was stated that only humans have > >destinies/fates. > > We have been playing that celestials have f/d. Their Fate is to be > demonic, and their destiny to be angelic. > The box in IN (p. 67) says "Every mortal has both a fate and a destiny". >From that, I assumed celestials didn't. > If using Fated Future/Divine Destiny on a celestial, it is generally > couched in those very vague terms -- Demonic/Angelic. (Usually with > no real sense of *which* is currently in effect!) If they have > the potential to be Word-Bound or become a Superior, that may show > up too. Yeah, that makes sense. > > If only humans have d/f, then what happens if you use the Fated > >Future/Dark Destiny attunements on someone who isn't human (like a > >celestial in a vessel)? Do you get a result, or a null reading? Either > >way, won't it handily give away whether the target is a celestial? > > Both those attunements are cheap and easy to use, > > They cost 10 points at character creation (and 10 points and/or > your Superior's permission after), and cost Essence -- which a > celestial will likely sense being used if you're close enough. "Cheap and Easy" in the sense that they only cost 1 Essence, and require no dice roll. > >and give the > >Servitors of Yves and Kronos a massive edge in the War if they can > >reveal another's celestial nature. > > Seraphim of Destiny are already tricky, if you have a funky name... Good point. > Yes, they have an edge. So do Servitors of the Game, who can > recognize various Bands... Seen the list of ways to spot celestials > yet? It's on the INC... I'll have to add FF/DD to the list, though. > Seen it, should double-check it now that I'm _finally_ running an IN adventure. Follow-up question - what reading would you get for f/d off a servitor of Asmodeus using Humanity? Most of the usual methods won't reveal them, but a f/d check might... - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia I want to go on a mountain-top With a radio and good batteries Play a joyous tune and free the human race from suffering I'm no fucking Buddhist, but this is enlightenment BJORK, "Alarm Call" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 19:25:47 -0500 (EST) From: Ozmodeus Subject: IN> Dice? Along the diceless/dice-ed thread: sometimes I think our dice HELP the roleplaying in the game. This is because dice are merciless. I, myself, have experienced several situations where I would have given a PC the ability to do something in the game, but made him roll for grins and giggles. When the 5% chance that the character fails pops up and stares him in the face, I just snicker and force them to find a more creative, role suited way of doing something. "oo, that sucks. Guess you WON'T be able to lie your way backstage Mr. Balseraph...." The again, I've also been known to say, "That was a DAMN good idea! Stupid freakin' dice. Go ahead and do it, I don't care what the little dot-ridden cubes say!" It's all in how you use random chance in your games. Later, Dan Ozdowski - -- The Devil's Cabana Boy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 20:09:32 -0500 (EST) From: Raoul Duke Subject: Re: IN> The honorable Rulius Advocatus, Esq. On Tue, 11 Nov 1997, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > Raoul Duke wrote: > > See, this is a beautiful mechanic which encourages creative character > > choices (which is why I'm running an OTE game right now), but I can't > > see how to integrate it with the some of the bits of IN I like best; > > the Symphony and Interventions. Would Essence just be spare bits of > > psychic pool? What about the d666? I could see a really good > > devils/angels game of OTE happening, but reducing the IN-specific > > bits to chrome kinda removes the IN-specific feel. > Well, you can always mix and match, and make your own adaptation by > blending. As far as I can see, Essence and psi hits and spell points > and mana, etc. are all just the same concept under different names > and with different rates of exchange. If you wanted to run IN with > the old name of "Essence" and the old costs and rites for generation, > I don't think this would collide with OTE mechanics at all. There > AREN'T many OTE mechanics, after all. True, but I dunno... it just feels different, to me anyway, if most of it goes to chrome. Like the superfluous dice, just to make a d666... what's the point then? I probably won't be running an IN game anytime soon (if anyone cares, because 1. the game's a bit too fiddly and errata-heavy and 2. most of the sourcebooks don't keep up the morally ambiguous "Good Omens" flavor that attracted me to it, although Heaven and Hell looks promising), but if I did it would be for the Disturbance/d666 mechanics as meaningful parts of a game, and not just tacked-on bits. I don't know if I'm really communicating well or even have much of a point here... Irresponsible Captain Iglesias ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 21:20:29 -0500 From: stardrag@eastky.net Subject: Re: IN> The honorable Rulius Advocatus, Esq. > > >---------- >> From: Ijon Tichy >> To: In Nomine list >> Subject: IN> The honorable Rulius Advocatus, Esq. >> Date: Monday, November 09, 1998 12:40 PM >> >> Good evening. >> > >Or whatever... :) > >I'm going to snip most of your message down to the nuts and bolts of >it--the last paragraph. >> [snip] >> My point: In Nomine, in my humble opinion, calls for too many die rolls, >> involves too many modifier tables to be looked up, and is generally >> somewhat overladen with mechanics that, again - to me (and my players) - >> hamper gameplay rather than help. I do not preach complete diceless In >> Nomine, nor a stat-less In Nomine. I do preach to ignoring a healthy bit >> of the rules and numbers, and employing a Dramatic System instead of a >> Mechanical System. Let the GM determine action results that would best >> advance the storyline. Don't let characters live or die by die rolls. Let >> 'em die because of their mistakes! >> > >Well, let me tell you as a (former?) Champions player: These rules *are* >minimalist, at least *I* thought so. That's what I love about them. Like >yourself, I've never been one for game mechanics, preferring to allow the >drama of the moment determine many things. But I was *pleased* at how >*few* mechanics there were in IN, comparatively speaking. > >I've talked to gamers in other parts of the world, myself, and it's my >experience that US players prefer more rules than their counterparts in >other parts of the world. This *could* be a generalization on my part... >but somehow, I don't think so. I guess that makes me kinda odd as American >players go: I search for a middle ground between not having *any* >mechanics and having *too many*. Champions (both incarnations) and >anything by Palladium have too many mechanics, and Amber (IMHO) doesn't >have enough. IN, I think, finds a nice middle-ground. > > > >Thomas Davidson >tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us > >MUSIC: Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, Rush, Jimi Hendrix >GAMES: Champions (old and new), In Nomine, Nephilim >TV: The X-Files, The Simpsons, Superman, The Tick, The Animaniacs >OTHER: Religion, Philosophy, mysticism, the runes, the Tarot, writing > > I agree with you totally. In Nomine does have very little mechanics and dice rolling (Especially compared to AD&D and GURPS which have TONS). In Nomine is over all the best basic system ive seen in a long time. Star Drake ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 97 22:44:21 -0500 From: dwood@skipjack.bluecrab.org Subject: IN> www.What The $&#*?!.com I got bored this evening and started typing random names into the go-to block of my browser. The scary thing is that all of the following CONNECTED ME TO ACTUAL SITES... www.kronos.com www.asmodeus.com www.baal.com www.lucifer.com Couldn't find anything for Belial, Haagenti, Saminga, Beleth, Andrealphus, Nybbas, so this is mercifully the exception rather than the rule. I was concerned, though, because three of the first four names I tried (Kronos, Asmodeus, Belial, and Baal) actually worked. The first three "successes" were commercial sites which seem not to have anything to do with their namesakes. The fourth, I don't know, since IE3 decided to pack it in just as I clicked on the table of contents page... Just in case you find anything synchronicitous about this... - -David http://www.bluecrab.org/members/dwood/ Demon of Obfuscation in service to Malphas ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 00:03:14 -0500 (EST) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Vessels and possession... On Tue, 11 Nov 1997, bruce dykes wrote: > In short, I need to put an angel in long term residence in a vampire's > body. Actual control of the body is not necessary as it makes a more > romantic story element if the vampire is repntant and now fighting for > good. Song of Possession? - -- Casca (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 00:21:47 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Evangelism (for gamers) > Not per se, but _I_ got hooked on In Nomine from a > short story in Pyramid. It detailed the plan for some mortals > who wanted to make a bargain with Hell and Lucifer's involvement > with the same. It was _awesome_. Sorry I can't come up with the > title or issue#. All of the Vinegettes from Pyramid and the books are on the web site, IIRC. Print them out and give them to him. Maya and Redneck have also created great fan-fic - ask them if you can use some of their's, as well. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 00:12:39 -0500 (EST) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Couple of Questions... On Tue, 11 Nov 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > If using Fated Future/Divine Destiny on a celestial, it is generally > couched in those very vague terms -- Demonic/Angelic. (Usually with > no real sense of *which* is currently in effect!) If they have > the potential to be Word-Bound or become a Superior, that may show > up too. I'd allow a roll against Role to see if FF/DD picked up the F/D of the Role, rather than that of the celestial. - -- Casca (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 00:21:48 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> IN Character Sheet .BMP > [Pee Kitty] > >It's a 640x480 B&W Windows BitMap (.BMP) file, only 38K. It prints out > >very nice at 8.5"x11". Anyone interested in a copy? I suppose I could just > >stick it on my web site, but if there was a lot of interest I could post > >it to the list with the Archangel of I-N-List's blessing... > [Beth] > > (Among other reasons, it's no good to *me* -- I don't use > Vapusoft Windows.) If Pee Kitty sends it to me, I can send it back to her(/him/it - speaking of gender in a genderless environment) in GIF format. That should be much more readable by everybody. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 00:21:47 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Evangelism (for gamers) > Yea, oh brethern and sistern! > > *cough* Pardon. A friend of mine is currently waffling on spending > his entertainment dollars on a copy of IN. > > What encouragement/discouragement/caveats does the list have? > I love the game, but I can't seem to express the game's good > points to him succintly- at least, not thirty dollars worth. > > Any creative, pithy quotes from the list? I am almost certain this is Em's, but she didn't mention it, so here goes: "Laugh, and the world laughs with you. Prank a Malakim, and you're on your own. But we'll watch from a safe distance, like low earth orbit..." Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 00:21:48 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Anton S. LaVey > > Apparently (according to the Daily Show anyway), Anton LaVey has passed on > > to his infernal reward. > > Yep. October 28, due to fluid build-up in the lungs (he had a long > history of heart problems and a notorious distrust of doctors). I > believe there have been several rumors such as his death certificate > has been changed to October 31 and that his daughter put a curse on > him (both of which have been stated as false by the Church of Satan > on-line rep). Other than that, he was cremated (IIRC) after a > private satanic funeral. Anybody care to speculate on the causes/effects of this WRT the Church of Satan writeup done a couple months ago? The original author would probably be best, but... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 01:19:34 -0500 (EST) From: Calabim@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Wording In a message dated 97-11-11 10:41:21 EST, you write: << Trust me, this is being discussed even now. What you will _never_ see is how to become an AA/DP, though. Uh-uh, no way. It might make an interesting climax to a campaign, but then people will want rules on how to _be_ an AA/DP and that is faaaaar out of the scope of the game! >> I would like to see AA/DP design rules for In Nomine. IN would almost certainly break with such characters as PC's however. I would seriously like to see a "play a AA/DP of your own design" type game, but at that level it should be a different game. Preferably a board game... No collectable card games please! too many of those and not enough good ones as it is. Just something that comes in a box and you have everything you'll need. (Actually, Knightmare Chess was A-OK, even though it's only half board game.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 17:20:15 +1100 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: Re: IN> Kyrio Telegraph At 03:49 PM 11/11/97 -0500, you wrote: >At 1:39 PM +0000 11/11/97, Nathaniel Eliot wrote: >>> The Kyrio telegraph is a cute idea. As for the problem of talking >>> with a pigeon -- how about using a crow instead? Crows, ravens, >>> magpies, and most other members of the Corvidae can talk. >> >>Okay - one question, then - how many forces does a crow/raven have? >>This would work great for my character... > >1-2 Forces, probably... Ask the GM. > >But don't bring any of those dirty things into the bar. Wow, go away for a couple of days and your thread gets hijacked to Havana. Makes a poor boy proud to see so many folks taking time to comment on one of his posts. For record, I have pegged pigeons (and similar avians) as 1 force, about .5 in Corp and .5 in Ethe, but since when possessed they have the stats of the Kyrio it hardly matters. Thanking all for their indulgence. Yours Peter. Reply to peterf@wr.com.au What does the Lord require of you, but to do justice and to love kindness and to walk humbly with your God ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 17:34:37 +1100 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: IN> The God Spot Dear List has anyone else seen the reports that some researchers in Virginia have found a spot in the brain that becomes electrically active when people think about God? They are reported as suggesting that the strength of a persons belief in God may depend on how developed this area of the brain is. Following on individuals who are atheists may have differently wired brains. "This set of structures in the brain may have evolved to promote group behaviour as a tool to work together. What a better tool that religion to exploit this God module" said Craig Kinsley, associate pforessor of neuroscience at Richmond Uni, Virginia. If true imagine the fun Vapula could have with this for a start, and if not imagine the fun Kobol could have with it :) . Thanking you for your indulgence. Yours Peter. Reply to peterf@wr.com.au What does the Lord require of you, but to do justice and to love kindness and to walk humbly with your God ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 07:06:08 -0600 (CST) From: "Austin G. Loomis" Subject: IN> Claudine, Angel of Forgiveness [The following writeup is based on a _Magna Veritas_ Archangel created by Erick-Noel "Baron Samedi" Bouchard . The Archangel is in turn based on his good friend Claudine Allen , who (I'm sure) will forgive me if I screwed this up. Anything you like about the writeup can ultimately be credited to one of them; anything you hate is probably my own fault for not getting my own copy of INS/MV before I tried to translate a character from it. If you'd like to see the ori- ginal, she's at http://mat.ulaval.ca/jfducre/claudine.htm -- part of Le Royaume des Morts de Baron Samedi (Baron Samedi's Realm of the Dead).] The bar was dark, and cigarette smoke was drifting in the air. With a casual gesture, the young woman calmly loosened the strings of her bonnet as she listened to the rantings of the people around her: "...don't mean to brag, of course, but it's not always obvious how to survive surrounded by so many idiots, especially when one's a superior being like myself. People are nothing really. Now you, even if you are an inferior being, you're very well-evolved..." "...uncool. What do you want me to do, that you're telling me that? The point is this-- I do what I want, but I don't believe I'm as bad as others may think. True artists are always misunderstood. Ahoy then! Anyone wanna go to Subway?" "...an imaginary individual, of course, whose name I shall withhold to avoid damage to his reputation. Let us call him T__. I shall spare you his description, since without doubt such ludicrousness would be able to give birth in your infantile gullets to a pure flame of crystal- lized genius. For, you see, unlike my colleagues here, I do not take myself for a superior being. Not at all. I am a superior being, and I have not the hypocrisy to deny it. And as a sign of my generosity, I advise you, mere mortal, to take the benefit of the pure intelligence of my genius..." "...oh yes, old man. Your wisdom is so colossal, and we've all got the grand fortune to listen to you, even me, a poor naive child who'll never have your intellect. Yeah, right." "...the b***ards, I'm gonna trash their boring Chronicle. They're all going to be up s*** creek. Five times already, I talked to my Primogen, he wanted to come with us himself, but I told him, `Don't do that, we need spies on *their* side too!' My Elder is proud of me anyway, 'cuz out of the whole Clan, I'm the one that's brought him the most information. I told you how I've got that magic dagger? Next time, I'm gonna Obfus- cate and bash 'em in the back when they're not looking. Then, with my Disciplines, I'm going to dig two graves, the other for..." Five hours already she'd been listening to their boasting and their jere- miads. Interrupting them all, she stood, spread out her arms, and said to them with a tender smile: "My poor little ones, I understand how hard your lives have been. In your heart of hearts, you are all just little children suffering from your wounds. Come here." The five Servitors of Malphas fell silent in an instant. Then, one by one, they approached her with a suspicious air. They stared at her an instant in the most perfect silence. The first collapsed in sobs then, followed by a second, then the entire Troupe were weeping at her feet. Claudine took them in her arms and comforted them in her gentle voice. Once again, the Angel had conquered. Claudine, Angel of Forgiveness, Mercurian Ambassador of Flowers Corporeal Forces 3 Strength 4, Agility 8 Ethereal Forces 5 Intelligence 10 (Mind 50), Precision 10 Celestial Forces 4 Will 12 (Soul 48), Perception 6 Vessel: Human/1 (charisma +2) [Body 16] Role: Student/4 Skills: Artistry (folk dance)/3, Chemistry/1, Cooking (Precision)/2, Emote/3, Fast-Talk/2, Lying/1 Songs: Charm (Corporeal/3, Ethereal/2, Celestial/2), Dreams (Corporeal /3, Celestial/2), Harmony (Corporeal/2, Ethereal/3, Celestial /3), Light (Corporeal/1), Projection (Corporeal) Attunements: Seraph of Novalis, Cherub of Novalis, Elohite of Novalis, Mercurian of Novalis, Crown of Joy, Master of Peace, Angel of Repentance, Divine Forgiveness (see below) Discord: Lustful/2 Special Rites: help the inept for an hour (+1), lead a sinner to repent (+2) A servitor of Novalis, Claudine earned her Word in 1995 after forgiving the torturers who'd spent six hours of atrocity making a martyr of her vessel. She manifests in a vessel that looks like a Beauceronne (see below) of 18 years, dressed in traditional Quebecois woman's garb (white bonnet, checked dress and ankle boots). Her debonair gentleness shines around her and warms the hearts of the most unfortunate. She makes her gentle and loving Superior look like a skinhead Malakite of David by comparison. [Beauceron(ne): a native of la Beauce, a quasi-mythic region in southern Quebec. (It appears to have been named for the Beauce in France, or maybe vice versa.) Since I promised Claudine to leave it in peace, along with her little hometown, I'll say no more about it. - bouche] God calls on Claudine when martyrs need her support, or again to restore impenitent sinners to reason. Formerly a Servitor of Guy (the Angel of Medicine), she's still on excellent terms with him and they often form a common front against the diabolical forces. She loves everyone, even demons, to the point where it can get frankly discouraging... (But we'll forgive her this little fault.) [(As seen in the INS/MV Superior writeups...) What Claudine thinks of... Mortals: I love them all and I forgive them. Animals: I forgive them too. Violence: It's not very nice, but I forgive you anyway. Promise me you won't do it again? Politics: ...can be interesting, but it needs care not to hurt other people. Order and discipline: It's not a big thing, but I still forgive you (sorry -- force of habit).. Other Archangels: They're all wonderful people and they're all my friends. Servitors: I love them all, except when they're naughty, and even then I always find a way to forgive them.] Special Attunement: Divine Forgiveness -- With one Essence and a Will roll, the angel can awaken remorse in the heart of any human who's done wrong. For minutes equal to the angel's Celestial Forces, the target will feel a profound sense of Guilt, apologizing ceaselessly and attemp- ting to make amends for what he has done. Additional Essence may be spent to increase the number of people affected. Only humans are affec- ted by this attunement. Distinctions As an Ambassador, Claudine has been empowered by Novalis to grant her own distinctions, usually in parallel with her servitor's advancement through the ranks of Flowers. Vassal of the Penitent: The angel can detect the degree of a person's guilt (including the Guilt Discord or disadvantage) as for the Elohite of Judgment attunement.. Friend of the Martyrs: The angel can cleanse a mortal of his guilt (each level of Guilt removed costs one Essence, up to a maximum of the angel's Celestial Forces). Master of Repentance: The angel can now use the power of Divine Forgive- ness on ethereal and diabolical spirits (though not on major gods or Demon Princes -- they're still too big for this, as they are for Yves' Divine Logic attunement or the ArchDean's "And the Truth Shall Set You Free"). Allied: Blandine, Novalis, Zadkiel Associated: Everyone else, except sometimes... Neutral: David, Laurence, Michael Chance of Invocation: 4 As an Ambassador holding an important Word, Claudine has been given the Archangelic power to respond instantly to invocations. She herself has a natural bonus of +4 to summon Novalis. Invocation Modifiers: +1: Feeding a stray dog +2: Helping an unfortunate mortal +3: Turning the other cheek when struck +4: Forgiving a sworn enemy +5: Reconciling typical members of two violently opposed ideologies, e.g. the Green Party and the Libertarians [*] +6: Getting Bill Clinton to forgive Rush Limbaugh and/or vice-versa [*] [*] In the original, these were respectively "Convert a Federalist" and "The repentance of Pierre-Elliot Trudeau." You can use those if you want... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 10:27:23 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Dice? I'm a diehard Diceless, so I'll just address this. What the heck. > Along the diceless/dice-ed thread: > > sometimes I think our dice HELP the roleplaying in the game. > This is because dice are merciless. No, the dice are fair. The GM is merciless. And arbitrary. And cruel. I don't think the dice need to be there to convey mercy. Hell, the dice are much nicer then I could ever be. Besides, it isn't the dice telling the story, it's the GM. > I, myself, have > experienced several situations where I would have given a PC > the ability to do something in the game, but made him roll for > grins and giggles. When the 5% chance that the character fails > pops up and stares him in the face, I just snicker and force > them to find a more creative, role suited way of doing > something. "oo, that sucks. Guess you WON'T be able to lie > your way backstage Mr. Balseraph...." I don't believe in allowing the dice to be nasty. Sometimes it's okay, but sometimes I think the GM can make that call just as easily as the dice can, sometimes better. It's all for what is best for the story. Of course, I would probably roll the dice in this case if it was a critical point, just because the game calls for dice and that's that. But otherwise, if it's not that important, why bother? > > The again, I've also been known to say, "That was a DAMN good > idea! Stupid freakin' dice. Go ahead and do it, I don't care > what the little dot-ridden cubes say!" But my dice never seem to have dots, for some odd inexplicable reason. > > It's all in how you use random chance in your games. Possibly. I'm very very story oriented. Random chance does happen, but it's alot less frequent then people would like to think. I ran a PC on a one-on-one last night for three hours. I did bring my infamous green and white Shadowrun Cube, which has served me well dice-wise for almost seven years. I never even got to the point of pulling off the rubber band on the case, let alone rolling dice. Granted, much of it was conversation and the like, and some of it was rather entertaining. But some of it was a GM call, and I would rather not break the flow of the story to roll dice and screw the player. I can screw her all by myself without the little plastic cubes. ... which I did. But hey, that's life. > > Later, > Dan Ozdowski > -- > The Devil's Cabana Boy > Emily K. Dresner, M.S.Eng. Applications Programmer III and Balseraph of the Game Desktop Applications Team - Medical Center Information Technology Current Quote: How can you say, "We are wise and the law of the LORD is with us," when, in fact, the false pens of the scribes has made it into a lie? - Jeremiah 8:8 ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #468 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.