From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat Nov 22 17:06:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA02100 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 1997 17:06:39 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id QAA11253 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 22 Nov 1997 16:58:24 -0600 Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 16:58:24 -0600 Message-Id: <199711222258.QAA11253@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #482 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, November 22 1997 Volume 01 : Number 482 In this digest: Re: IN> Seed : Theorem for Trouble Re: IN> Seed : Theorem for Trouble Re: IN> Angels and Souls (was Angelaki) RE: IN> Angels and Souls (was Angelaki) IN> Re: Achmetha IN> Creation of angels/demons Re: IN> Strange Question Re: IN> Angels and Souls (was Angelaki) Re: IN> Strange Question Re: IN> Creation of angels/demons Re: IN> Angels and Souls (was Angelaki) IN> Relievers Re: IN> Strange Question (fluffish) Re: IN> Strange Question Re: IN> Relievers IN> Angelic Reproduction Re: IN> Angels and Souls (was Angelaki) IN> Kobal crops up in Hellblazer/Books of Magic Re: IN> Strange Question Re: IN> Strange Question Re: IN> Strange Question ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 14:22:20 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> Seed : Theorem for Trouble >Conclusion (by some Superior or Word-bound who the PCs will be shortly >cursing) : These people who go spotting flying saucers would make good >Soldier potential, don't you think? > Hee Hee Hee. I love it. Fishing for Soldiers. Heh. Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 14:28:27 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> Seed : Theorem for Trouble >> Conclusion (by some Superior or Word-bound who the PCs will be shortly >> cursing) : These people who go spotting flying saucers would make good >> Soldier potential, don't you think? > >Yeah, but... (I hate anyone who starts a rebuttel with 'yeah, but!') ...isn't it >the old joke that UFOs are only sighted in 'hick communities'? Imagine those >soldiers. > Well, it'd explain where those Forces that most of have in the Ethereal area went in these guys.... Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 18:29:48 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Angels and Souls (was Angelaki) At 5:17 PM -0500 11/21/97, The Other Chris wrote: >Earl Wajenberg wrote: >> What would be meant by "have a soul"? As generally imagined, a soul >> is an immortal, immaterial consciousness. > >The Archangel Beth wrote: >>Angels *are* souls... They just have bodies occasionally as well, >>instead of being born into vessels, like humans... Or >>so I'd say if any kid of mine asked... > >Okay, so I guess that's the canonical answer. Nonono -- I changed my .sig for that one. I think it's all semantics, and therefore probably a canonically Undefined Area. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 15:14:42 -0800 From: "Steven Feldon (Exchange)" Subject: RE: IN> Angels and Souls (was Angelaki) P.S. How about Adonites (Adonai = Lord, so it would translate as "little lords") Um, that's not lord in the sense of lord of the manor-it's Lord in the sense of Lord of the universe. Adonai is a bit too singular to be turned into a generic, imho. steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 20:01:30 EST From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: IN> Re: Achmetha : From: "Nathaniel Eliot" : > Achmetha ("Brother of Death") : > Elohite Servitor of War : > Friend of the Fighters : > Angel of Casualties : : I like it, a lot. It fits well into both standard In Nomine and my : particular offshoot of it <1>, provides a good way to reign in H/K : <2> and random violence angels, and provides good potential for plot : lines all over. Especially with Michael; he and Achmetha are going : to load their Celestial undergarments when they find out what exactly : God (possibly) is and does <3>. Thanks! It's good to know that people like what you do. : <2> Hunter/Killer - specifically, characters who solve any problem by : methodically placing lead in anyone who is related to the problem, as : well as any witnesses. If that's what you want, play Shadowrun... Yep. It's often really hard to think of a way to fight this tendency without indulging in it yourself -- when the PCs blow up a building full of people, the urge to send in a squad of Dominic's Malakim can be overwhelming. But IME that only serves as reinforcement; the players think "we failed because we didn't have enough force!" and next time go for a nuke. So when I thought of a way to deal with this without responding in kind, I had to share. :) : <3> Ask if you care. Please tell; the major reason I subscribe to the list is to see what other people are doing. : http://brie.bmsc.washington.edu/people/merritt/books/Eye_of_Argon.html I applaud your taste in literature, sir! - ---- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 20:56:04 EST From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: IN> Creation of angels/demons I treat the creation of angels and demons a little bit differently, both from canon and from each other. - ---- Angels: Angels were created once, by God, at the beginning of the universe. Every angel is as old as the Symphony. However, almost all angels are not distinct personalities; they are 'singing the Symphony' and are responsible for its day-to-day progression, keeping the planets obeying Newton's laws and electons obeying Schroedinger's and so on. When an archangel 'calls an angel from the Symphony,' s/he calls an angel from the chorus and makes it aware of its seperate existence. This is when individual consciousness and memory begin for an angel, and when an angel speaks of its "birth," it means the time a Superior awakened it. This is why Heaven is so reluctant to awaken more angels; each time they do so, there is one less voice supporting God's Symphony. And once an angel has tasted independent thought and action, it is impossible for it to ever go back to its original divinely-ordained place in the Symphony. This also means that every time an angel dies a soul-death, a piece of the universe dies forever and irrevocably. If the forces of Hell can kill enough angels, then the Symphony will fall apart and Lucifer will be master of the ruins. Demons: The first Fall from the heights of Heaven to the depths of the Pit was a traumatic experience. Many demons found that their personal drive to exist was insufficient without divine grace, and their Forces just...fell apart. The Princes collected these broken pieces of fallen angels, and used them as building blocks to create new demons. Rather than building a few juggernauts, most Princes choose to build many, weak Servitors. In addition to the benefit of not creating potential rivals, this also has the benefit that each new demon has the ability to grow in power and gain Forces through experience, thus multiplying the amount of power the Prince has available much faster. One of the punishments the Game inflicts is to dismantle demons and use them as 'seeds' to make new ones. The loss of personal identity is one of the worst things a demon can imagine, and Asmodeus's bland denials that this is done seem calculated to stoke the paranoia of the lower echelons of Hell. Since every demon in Hell contains a piece of divine handiwork, albeit twisted and shattered, the possibility of Redemption exists for every demon as well. - ---- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 22:58:12 -0500 From: John Dye Subject: Re: IN> Strange Question John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > > On Nov 21, 11:30am, Jesse Rooney wrote: > > Subject: Re: IN> Strange Question > > > Celestial reproduction (both demonic and angelic) is going > > >to involve contribution of forces to the newborn. Several celestials > > >can contribute and there's usually a Superior involved (unapproved > > >procreation is a no-no). Even Lucifer, though, cannot turn a > > >human soul into demonic soul as far as we know. He has taken an > > >essential demonic (celestial) soul and bolstered it with Forces > > >stripped from humans, OTOH. > > Aack! Celestial birth control! Laurence and Dominic and the Catholic > > Church would not be pleased! Course maybe if Angels have not drive to > > reproduce it would be a lot easier to avoid. Do Celestial have a sex drive > > as it were? > > There is no 'sex drive' in celestials. There may be a desire > to reproduce, but it isn't imposed on them by their genetics/glands. > It's very much an individual decision. (Heaven and Hell spoiler) I don't know. In the vignette at the beginning of the book, angel fair, and demon hot both seemed to go around their respective superiors to do the celestial wild thing and produce a infink. Since they both got in big trouble, I would assume there was a drive of somekind behind it. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 23:20:26 -0500 From: John Dye Subject: Re: IN> Angels and Souls (was Angelaki) The Other Chris wrote: > > Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > What would be meant by "have a soul"? As generally imagined, a soul > > is an immortal, immaterial consciousness. > > The Archangel Beth wrote: > >Angels *are* souls... They just have bodies occasionally as well, > >instead of being born into vessels, like humans... Or > >so I'd say if any kid of mine asked... > > Okay, so I guess that's the canonical answer. I'd like people to > consider another possible view. snip definition > The general concensus appears to be that the soul is not the same thing > as the mind or consciousness, and that not all things that think > necessarily have a soul. > > In the standard IN worldview, celestials are way better than us, no > doubt. They have souls, super-powers, they're pretty much immortal. > There is nothing about us that makes us special in any way. So why > didn't God stop with them? Canon got it wrong > An alternative view is that there is something fundamentally different > about humans, and that thing the soul. Too many sources have made a > point of stating that angels don't have souls for it to be one of those > things we just got wrong (though typically, I can't lay my hand on any > of those sources right now!). Angels are "better" then humans much the same way a tractor is better then a human. They are designed to do a job, but they are really fragile. If they don't follow their resonence, they break (become demons). And in some ways, the folks who try to make non-judgemental servitors of Dominic, or pacifistic servitors of Michael are missing the boat, because the Superiors are putting them together with these drives hard wired into their anatomy. It would kind of being like a human denying an instinctive need for social contact, communication, sex drive, etcetra. I don't know what you are left with, but I'm pretty sure it's not human except biologically. Demons have replaced their hard wiring toward "Divine Will" with "ME! I'm gonna get mine!" If they lose this precarious perch, they don't have much left. Angels and demons can percieve divine will freely (whether they do anything about that differentiates between the two) Man is left kind of staggering with absolute free will and not much sense of the divine, working it out as he goes along. A micro rant and my pov, but it and 48 more cents will buy a cup of coffee. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 21:28:18 -0700 (MST) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Strange Question > > >Has anyone conceived of anything which would constitute a sort of > > >"Celestial Marriage Vows?" I'm more interested in some sort of temporary > > Well, with Lilim, you swap Geasa -- "For [duration] I swear I shall > > not betray thee." Or something like. > > Wow. Lilim as wedding ceremony types. What a concept... Say..there's an interesting thought. Extend that a bit past just wedding officiates and apply Lilim to the question of "Where do little angels come from?" Given the particular mythology around Lilith as QUITE the breeder, and the rather unique status of Lilith and the Lilim as actually being, when it comes down to it, of a nature that somewhat crosses over between Celestial and Corporeal (if certainly not precisely `human')... It'd actually make sense if Lilim, and ONLY Lilim, can give birth to new Celestials. It'd also explain not only the fact that they're the ONLY C/B with an attached (if not overriding) gender, but also why Hell has been `propagating' faster than Heaven. The `child' would come out according to the Choir/Band of the `father', and for this purpose, all Lilim are `female' and all other Celestials `male'. {Which, of course, is why only Lilith can create Lilim.} If not necessarily for Angels, I'm liking the idea for Demons...particularly as it would also suggest that either Lilith is an absolute loose cannon that God hadn't really accounted for, or that He was thinking ahead -VERY- clearly...(And after all; why else offer Adam a wife specifically built so she won't stay with him? Obviously, because she was actually for something else, further down the line...like giving the demons, `broken' by their very nature, the opportunity to promulgate and thereby keep up their end of the Plan.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 23:30:26 -0500 From: John Dye Subject: Re: IN> Creation of angels/demons Neel Krishnaswami wrote: > > I treat the creation of angels and demons a little bit differently, both from > canon and from each other. > > ---- > > Angels: > I like the premise, but I have to disagree with the last bit about killing off enough angels to win. The major view of the demons seems to be "Target the Humans", with knocking off the odd angel as icing on the cake. But otherwise well done > > Demons: > Very Good! No quibbles here. It makes a lot of sense. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 01:50:26 -0500 From: Jesse Rooeny Subject: Re: IN> Angels and Souls (was Angelaki) >> In the standard IN worldview, celestials are way better than us, no >> doubt. They have souls, super-powers, they're pretty much immortal. >> There is nothing about us that makes us special in any way. So why >> didn't God stop with them? (1) Mortal's souls -are- immortal. We are going to soar in Heaven or burn in Hell forever. It is alot easier to soul kill an angel than it is to soul kill a mortal and only one charceter in the stanard In Nomine continum does that, the Prince of Death. (2) "Why didn't God stop with them?" That is exacltly the question that lead to the Fall. I do not have an answer on hand but it has to do with us having free will and the ability to choose between good and evil. Futhermore we are the center of Creation. God made this world for us not the angels. - -Jesse Ofanite of Tequila ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 04:08:13 +0200 From: Ijon Tichy Subject: IN> Relievers Hi. The main book (the only one I have) goes into VERY little detail about relievers. In fact, it seems almost as if SJG don't want us to use 'em. Or rather, a cheap "buy the next book" scheme? I shan't deign to ponder that one further. Anyhow, some basic questions: 1. How does an angel communicate with his reliever servant? Is telepathy available, range/limitations, etc. ? 2. Is a reliever visible in the corporeal world? Does it have a vessel, so to speak? If not, how can it "pull car keys from between cushions" ? 3. Can they have skills? How about equipment? - -- Ijon Tichy Sailing the 'net in the only e-mail: ijon@forum2.org Space Barrel known to man. Homepage: http://www.forum2.org/ijon MOO: VotSB, telnet://forum2.org:7777 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 03:56:44 +0200 From: Ijon Tichy Subject: Re: IN> Strange Question (fluffish) At 05:09 PM 11/20/97 -0500, Archangel Beth wrote: >>Has anyone conceived of anything which would constitute a sort of >>"Celestial Marriage Vows?" I'm more interested in some sort of temporary > >Well, with Lilim, you swap Geasa -- "For [duration] I swear I shall >not betray thee." Or something like. > >I've been assuming that a Lilim can put a full-blown Geas on any >*willing* subject ("Yes, you're right, I owe you." wrap around the person> he's an honest one, though>), so you could have "vows" performed in >front of a Lilim... > >Wow. Lilim as wedding ceremony types. What a concept... Ooh, I can't resist the temptation... "Mawwiage! Mawwiage is what bwings us togethew, today. That bwessed awwangement, that dweam, wiffin a dweam!... and Wove, True Wove, shaw fowwow you, whewevew..." "Have you the Geas?" - -- Laitpun, Lilim of Marriage (never mind the stats) - -- Ijon Tichy Sailing the 'net in the only e-mail: ijon@forum2.org Space Barrel known to man. Homepage: http://www.forum2.org/ijon MOO: VotSB, telnet://forum2.org:7777 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 11:19:41 -0500 From: "Thomas Davidson" Subject: Re: IN> Strange Question - ---------- > From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC > To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > Subject: Re: IN> Strange Question > Date: Friday, November 21, 1997 8:36 AM > > > Two doesn't decide where demons come from, but it's not implausible to > suggest > > that Lucifer's come up with a way to turn the damned into demons. They're > > stupid and even more selfish than most demons, and quite often not nearly as > > powerful. As most of the books say, however, Lucifer chose quantity over > > quality. > > Celestial reproduction (both demonic and angelic) is going > to involve contribution of forces to the newborn. Several celestials > can contribute and there's usually a Superior involved (unapproved > procreation is a no-no). Even Lucifer, though, cannot turn a > human soul into demonic soul as far as we know. He has taken an > essential demonic (celestial) soul and bolstered it with Forces > stripped from humans, OTOH. > I believe this to be in error. To wit, IN p. 149-150: "[...] Lilith [...] Created as the first wife of Adam in God's famous experiment in the Garden of Eden, she exercised her free will and walked away. Lucifer offered her power, dark Essence, and the Word of Freedom. Lilith accepted [....]" In other words, there *is* a precedence for Lucifer being able to change a human into a demon... or am I missing something? Thomas Davidson tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us MUSIC: Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, Rush, Jimi Hendrix GAMES: Champions (old and new), In Nomine, Nephilim TV: The X-Files, The Simpsons, Superman, The Tick, The Animaniacs OTHER: Religion, Philosophy, mysticism, the runes, the Tarot, writing ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 11:07:22 -0700 (MST) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> Relievers > The main book (the only one I have) goes into VERY little detail about > relievers. In fact, it seems almost as if SJG don't want us to use 'em. Or Really, just about everything you need to know about 'em is in there...I think it's more a, "They're very simple creatures", and on the whole, the same rules apply to them that you use for everyone else..they just have fewer Forces. > 1. How does an angel communicate with his reliever servant? Is telepathy > available, range/limitations, etc. ? Talk to 'em. Telepathy's available, yes. (Ethereal Tongues, I believe, though it'll have to be on the angel's end of things, by canon.) > 2. Is a reliever visible in the corporeal world? Does it have a vessel, so > to speak? If not, how can it "pull car keys from between cushions" ? > 3. Can they have skills? How about equipment? They can buy any of those with their 16 points, sure. Or they might pick up Ethereal Motion. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 14:16:59 -0500 From: Jesse Rooney Subject: IN> Angelic Reproduction Just a note: Odric form the Marches, pg 14 is described as a child of two angels so it seems to me that angels can reproduce. There is no description about how or why or anything else, though. - -Jesse Ofanite of Tequila ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 14:20:33 -0500 From: Jesse Rooney Subject: Re: IN> Angels and Souls (was Angelaki) >>> In the standard IN worldview, celestials are way better than us, no >>> doubt. They have souls, super-powers, they're pretty much immortal. >>> There is nothing about us that makes us special in any way. So why >>> didn't God stop with them? >(1) Mortal's souls -are- immortal. We are going to soar in Heaven or burn >in Hell forever. It is alot easier to soul kill an angel than it is to >soul kill a mortal and only one charceter in the stanard In Nomine continum >does that, the Prince of Death. >(2) "Why didn't God stop with them?" That is exacltly the question that >lead to the Fall. I do not have an answer on hand but it has to do with us >having free will and the ability to choose between good and evil. >Futhermore we are the center of Creation. God made this world for us not >the angels. I remebered what it was that made us better than angels. We are made in the image of God the inference being God did not make angels in His image. Prehaps this means that God, the Creator, made us creators too, we can make tools and clone sheep and all that whereas angels may just be uncreative or something. - -Jesse Ofanite of Tequila ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 19:34:31 GMT From: maya@tcp.co.uk (GR Cogman) Subject: IN> Kobal crops up in Hellblazer/Books of Magic Blink. Blink. Yes, it's true. I was reading the second part of the Hellblazer/Books of Magic crossover (comic by Vertigo) when guess who gets mentioned? Kobal, Master of the Infernal Theatre. "You dare come into the theatre of Kobal and insult his usher? You dare? You have just penned the script for your own damnation, thrice over..." - demon As for what happens, it's more a question of theatre than comedy, but bluff and social amusement definitely come into it. Read it and snicker. - --- Maya, Elohim of Eli in service to Blandine maya@tcp.co.uk - -- "There are those who say that wizards are subject to temptations and addictions beyond the understanding of ordinary men: the addiction to shape-changing, or to meditation under the influence of certain herbs and conditions of the stars; the obsession with knowledge, and the development of power. Yet this is not so. Temptation is temptation, obsession is obsession, and choice is choice." - Isar Chelladan, Precepts of Wizardry. -- "Dog Wizard", Barbara Hambly. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 15:31:30 -0500 (EST) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Strange Question On Fri, 21 Nov 1997, Thomas Davidson wrote: > I believe this to be in error. To wit, IN p. 149-150: "[...] > Lilith [...] Created as the first wife of Adam in God's famous experiment > in the Garden of Eden, she exercised her free will and walked away. > Lucifer offered her power, dark Essence, and the Word of Freedom. Lilith > accepted [....]" > > In other words, there *is* a precedence for Lucifer being able to change a > human into a demon... or am I missing something? I never bought the 'Lilith as mortal' bit. In my game, she is a fallen Grigori...the first, in fact. My take on the Grigori is that of celestial breeding stock. Ever wonder where Cain, Abel and Seth got their wives? Grigori, the only angels that have the capacity to give birth to humans. This way, all that nasty business about birth defects from a limited gene pool is avoided. This explains why Lilith is such a prolific breeder. It also explains, if you use the World of Darkness, why she taught Caine how to use his vampiric powers, why she taught the secrets of magick to the children of Seth, etc....she was accumulating Geasa. - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 16:43:55 -0500 From: "Thomas Davidson" Subject: Re: IN> Strange Question - ---------- > From: Casca > To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > Subject: Re: IN> Strange Question > Date: Saturday, November 22, 1997 3:31 PM > > On Fri, 21 Nov 1997, Thomas Davidson wrote: > > > I believe this to be in error. To wit, IN p. 149-150: "[...] > > Lilith [...] Created as the first wife of Adam in God's famous experiment > > in the Garden of Eden, she exercised her free will and walked away. > > Lucifer offered her power, dark Essence, and the Word of Freedom. Lilith > > accepted [....]" > > > > In other words, there *is* a precedence for Lucifer being able to change a > > human into a demon... or am I missing something? > > I never bought the 'Lilith as mortal' bit. In my game, she is a fallen > Grigori...the first, in fact. > But that is neither "canonical", nor faithful to the source material. Lilith was Adam's first wife... or at least she was created as such, but chose freedom instead. In Kaballah, she is also seen as a Entity of the Qlippoth (simply, "demons", but it's a little more complicated than that). So, apparently she gained quite a bit in relative power in the last couple of millenia. To become simply the first wife of the first man to a powerful entity means that *something* had to happen. > My take on the Grigori is that of celestial breeding stock. Ever wonder > where Cain, Abel and Seth got their wives? Grigori, the only angels that > have the capacity to give birth to humans. This way, all that nasty > business about birth defects from a limited gene pool is avoided. > Mmmm... don't know. IMC, the "first family" is really a metaphor. Even if it weren't a metaphor, the story didn't quite occur as it did in The Bible. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 23:51:20 +0100 From: "cd skogsberg" Subject: Re: IN> Strange Question John Dye wrote: [Angelic/Infernal Reproduction] > (Heaven and Hell spoiler) > > I don't know. In the vignette at the beginning of the book, angel > fair, and demon hot both seemed to go around their respective > superiors to do the celestial wild thing and produce a infink. Since > they both got in big trouble, I would assume there was a drive of > somekind behind it. *Someone* has been reading John Constantine: Hellblazer... _Guys and Dolls_, to be precise. cd Nothus Effector de Inferis in training, or something. - -- "And it has come to pass that the Lord of the Woods, being ... Seven and nine, down the onyx steps ... (tri)butes to Him in the Gulf, Aza- thoth, He of Whom Thou hast taught us marv(els ..." - H. P. Lovecraft, _The Whisperer in Darkness_ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #482 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.