From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Dec 8 07:58:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA13777 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 07:58:42 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id HAA31668 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 07:03:08 -0600 Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 07:03:08 -0600 Message-Id: <199712081303.HAA31668@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #503 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, December 8 1997 Volume 01 : Number 503 In this digest: Re: IN> Request for List Superiors Re: IN> [DV Fluff!] Scrunch & Archie Red Dwarf? (was Re: IN> Superiors' Notes IN> [FLUFF] Red Dwarf IN> [FLUFF] Madonna IN> 12 Will Shedite / Cristmas Cheer IN> 12 Will Shedite / Cristmas Cheer. Re: IN> [FLUFF] Red Dwarf Re: IN> [FLUFF] Madonna Re: Re: IN> Red Dwarf Re: IN> [FLUFF] Red Dwarf Re: IN> [DV Fluff!] Scrunch & Archie Re: IN> Nybbas Redux Re: Re: IN> Red Dwarf IN> IN. Dan Smith IN> Ideas from the comic shop. Re: Re: IN> Red Dwarf IN> Angelic Player's Guide. . . . IN>More Shedim stuff... IN> The Demon of Celebrity Stalkers IN> The Demon of Stalking Re: IN>More Shedim stuff... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 21:15:42 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Request for List Superiors > > Fine, I promise to only churn out crap and fluff from now on. :) > > Well, you're off to a good start, splitting an infinitive like that.. > *slaps down Seraph of Archives proofreading attunement* ;;;) > Ahem. Goof. Engineering has sucked out my ability to effectively use grammar or spell, although I'm handy with a Z-Transform. This is why I said earlier today, "This is why God made spell checking and grammar software." :) - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 20:17:53 -0600 From: Corey Subject: Re: IN> [DV Fluff!] Scrunch & Archie At 02:38 PM 12/7/97 -0500, you wrote: >>-David (who must have fallen victim to the Balseraph of "Starship >>Troopers", 'cause I liked that movie despite it's gaping holes...I'm still >>having problems with "Aliens IV", OTOH.) >I don't know anybody who has seen Alien 4 and liked it. I know I didn't >like it at all. >-Jesse I thought it was better than Event Horizon, but then again that didn't take a whole lot. - --"Sell your soul for complete control Is that really what you need" -Pink Floyd "What do you want from me" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 22:37:34 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Kinney Subject: Red Dwarf? (was Re: IN> Superiors' Notes On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, cd skogsberg wrote: > You consider Red Dwarf intellectual? > > Not that it's not funny, but intellectual? > I've observed the flamewar raging over this, and I'd just like to say that while it is a comedy, and at times pretty low-brow, it still from time to time deals with quite classic SF themes, and often in a fairly serious manner (even if the presentation is funny -- "Waiting For God" from series one, for example). And being British humor, even the lowbrow comedy makes you think from time to time. :-) Now, to make this somewhat on topic, I dare someone to make up a variant where the Cats were right. :-) alberich@iglou.com | Mark Kinney | http://www.iglou.com/nations "I do not want to be devoured by a symbol of monarchy!" -- KGB Chief, "Casino Royale" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 23:10:00 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> [FLUFF] Red Dwarf >>>Compare Red Drawf to Gary Larson's work, compare to Bill Waterson's compare to Camile Paglia, compare to Roger Mapplethrope, compare to the State, compare to Captial Steps, compare to Madonna, compare to Bob Dylan, compare to Dan Smith's art. All of these are American examples of great intellectualism and, with the expection of Paglia and Mappletrope, come from popular cluture. It takes brians to lauggh at "The Far Side" and "Calvin and Hobbes" and to understand Madonna and Dylan but it does -not- take brians to laugh at that stupid computer on Red Dwarf.<<< I have to agree. I've found Red Dwarf amusing on occasion, but mostly I find it as offensively stupid as most of our American sitcoms. And while "European TV is better/more intellectual than American TV" is a common refrain among intellectual snobs, I suspect those people haven't seen some of the worst that European TV has to offer (which usually doesn't make it over here). Of course most American comedy IS Nybbas-inspired crap, but then, Sturgeon's Law applies _everywhere_. - -David (who inexplicably likes Tool Time. And Xena. But not Seinfeld. Go figure.) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 23:10:01 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> [FLUFF] Madonna >>>Madonna: Madonna is most definatly intellectual. Madonna has done what Flint and Mappletrope have failed at: makking pornography mainstream [....] Folks like Madonna will always be in a society, trying to urge it past its constricating taboos.<<< Madonna as a joint project of Andrealphus and Nybbas? - -David (she ain't even _that_ good-looking!) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 23:10:05 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> 12 Will Shedite / Cristmas Cheer >>>Beth announced that rules change after I sent this message. Note that John Karakash was very clear that the above is not the case when he answered this question earlier. Frankly, I liked that answer a lot better...it might have made Shedim a little hard to handle, but the new ruling makes them practically useless.<<< I don't think so. It does mean they can't freely hop around between hosts at will out in the open. >>>> Calabim, usually. Only if they damage something Symphonic.<<< Which means whenever they use their resonance against anything other than another celestial. >>>So? *Any* celestial manifesting like that causes a disturbance.<<< Yes. Just making the note, to point out that Kyriotates don't have a special ability to avoid making a disturbance when manifesting a celestial form. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 23:10:03 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> 12 Will Shedite / Cristmas Cheer. >>>I just looked at my copy of the FAQ, and that's right. But Kyriotates can... what's the rationale behind that? (Other than the unbalancing effects of having angels being easily corruptible.)<<< Shedim get to access the memories of their hosts, and their hosts usually don't KNOW they've been possessed, or have inconvenient blank spots in their memories, when the Shedite is done. That is a big advantage. Kyriotates have a few balancing advantages with the nature of their possessions. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 22:25:59 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> [FLUFF] Red Dwarf >I have to agree. I've found Red Dwarf amusing on occasion, but mostly I >find it as offensively stupid as most of our American sitcoms. And while >"European TV is better/more intellectual than American TV" is a common >refrain among intellectual snobs, I suspect those people haven't seen some >of the worst that European TV has to offer (which usually doesn't make it >over here). True enough, by a long road. And let's not even go into -Japanese- television. (Japan invented 'Funniest Home Maimings- um, Videos', you know.) Still, the fact remains that, where comedy is concerned, there's virtually - -nothing- on American TV which can be remotely called 'intellectual.' > >-David (who inexplicably likes Tool Time. And Xena. But not Seinfeld. Go >figure.) Home Improvement - Slapstick. Xena - Slapstick. Seinfeld - Annoying Whiny New Yorkers We All Hope Never to Meet. Gee, I just can't see why you wouldn't like Seinfeld... }:-{D Redneck (hate beavis & butthead, love king of the hill) Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | "It's Christmas in Heaven, http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | there's great shows on TV; c/o White Lightning Productions | the Sound of Music twice an hour http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | and Jaws I, II and III." Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- A Nybbas Christmas http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 23:34:53 -0500 From: Jesse Rooney Subject: Re: IN> [FLUFF] Madonna >>>>Madonna: Madonna is most definatly intellectual. Madonna has done what >Flint and Mappletrope have failed at: makking pornography mainstream [....] >Folks like Madonna will always be in a society, trying to urge it past its >constricating taboos.<<< > > > Madonna as a joint project of Andrealphus and Nybbas? Or maybe Novalis and Janus? Hmmm... can't mortals do anything on their own. In my game Dylan and Hitler are both soilders and so was half of the presidents. It seems that in IN and WOD the super powers run the show and even if that is not always right most GMs play it that way. I don't like it. - -Jesse ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 00:37:17 EST From: MarkDEddy Subject: Re: Re: IN> Red Dwarf In a message dated 12/7/97 4:30:31 PM, you wrote: > I think you miss the point of the postings. I was not debating over the >humor value of Dylan and Madonna, I was saying that they are more >intellecual than Red Dwarf. I agree with you that Mapplethrope's images >are not "funny" but they are visionary, cretainaly moreso than Red Dwarf. > >-Jesse And the counter-point is that you missed the point of the thread in the first place. What is being looked for is clever, creative, and intellectual English-language TV comedy produced in the United States. If you can prove that there is an US *TV* Sitcom that is not the work of the anti-creativity Forces o' Hell (TM), then you will be closer on track to what we were talking about in the first place. On the other hand, in response to your totally unrelated points, my guess is that Mapplethorpe is currently making Eli very, very happy (and confusing Andrephalus to no end...); Madonna is currently the focus of a three-way fight between servants of Eli (on loan to Novalis), Andrephalus, and Nybbas; Camille Paglia is a maverick who has interested both Novalis and David; Gary Larson and Bill Watterson's retirement is one of Nybbas' greatest triumphs of the '90's; the Capitol Steps are probably driving Malphas bonkers trying to figure out how to corrupt them; and Bob Dylan is actually one of Eli's soldiers. For the rest mentioned, I don't know enough about them (the State and Dan Smith, I believe?) to come up with what they would mean to Celestials in In Nomine. Mark(Trying to segue this fascinating thread back on-topic) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 00:50:31 EST From: MarkDEddy Subject: Re: IN> [FLUFF] Red Dwarf One point about British TV Comedy (TM) that I'd like to make: Ivar Haglund (of Ivar's Fish & Chips fame), while he was alive, made sure that the Seattle PBS station was funded as long as they would show Monty Python's Flying Circus. When asked why, he replied, (as I remember the quote) "Well I saw it while in Britian and thought, 'this is great, it's really truly clever,' but then, I wondered if the average American would think it was funny, so I showed an episode to my brother-in-law. He's a great guy, but not too swift upstairs, if you know what I mean, and he loved it. So I figured it worked on all levels and funded it." I think this is also true of Red Dwarf. It works on more than one level of comedy. Mark( oh yeah, US$0.02, in case you hadn't figured it out...) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 01:20:50 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> [DV Fluff!] Scrunch & Archie > >-David (who must have fallen victim to the Balseraph of "Starship > >Troopers", 'cause I liked that movie despite it's gaping > >holes...I'm still having problems with "Aliens IV", OTOH.) > > I don't know anybody who has seen Alien 4 and liked it. I know I > didn't like it at all. -Jesse Well, I've been hearing good stuff on Alien 4. Given that I went on a rapage over Starship Troopers, I may just get lucky... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's 90210 with guns and Nickelodean Gack, for God's sake!" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 01:20:50 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Nybbas Redux > You think some RPGs aren't derivative puerile fodder? > > -David (I'd name a couple, but they'd turn out to be someone's > favorite game -- been there, done that, roasted the weenies and > marshmallows in the flames...) Well, I'll risk the flames, to mouth the words "World of Synnibar", which IMO ranks somewhere around the Eye of Argon... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "From where do you come barbarian, Crow: You mean you're a prostitute and you don't know from where guys-- Mike: Don't make me wash your mouth out with soap. http://brie.bmsc.washington.edu/people/merritt/books/Eye_of_Argon.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 01:22:30 -0500 From: Jesse Rooney Subject: Re: Re: IN> Red Dwarf >In a message dated 12/7/97 4:30:31 PM, you wrote: > >> I think you miss the point of the postings. I was not debating over the >>humor value of Dylan and Madonna, I was saying that they are more >>intellecual than Red Dwarf. I agree with you that Mapplethrope's images >>are not "funny" but they are visionary, cretainaly moreso than Red Dwarf. >> >>-Jesse > >And the counter-point is that you missed the point of the thread in the first >place. What is being looked for is clever, creative, and intellectual >English-language TV comedy produced in the United States. If you can prove >that there is an US *TV* Sitcom that is not the work of the anti-creativity >Forces o' Hell (TM), then you will be closer on track to what we were talking >about in the first place. > >On the other hand, in response to your totally unrelated points, my guess is >that Mapplethorpe is currently making Eli very, very happy (and confusing >Andrephalus to no end...); Madonna is currently the focus of a three-way fight >between servants of Eli (on loan to Novalis), Andrephalus, and Nybbas; Camille >Paglia is a maverick who has interested both Novalis and David; Gary Larson >and Bill Watterson's retirement is one of Nybbas' greatest triumphs of the >'90's; the Capitol Steps are probably driving Malphas bonkers trying to figure >out how to corrupt them; and Bob Dylan is actually one of Eli's soldiers. For >the rest mentioned, I don't know enough about them (the State and Dan Smith, I >believe?) to come up with what they would mean to Celestials in In Nomine. > > Mark(Trying to segue this fascinating thread back on-topic) Dang, this is the funniest poting I have read to date! Kudoos to Mark! Intellectual/Funny American sitcoms? Welll... <> Greatest American Hero was funny, I know! Women of the House, Ran 2 yrs. ago really funny stuff. - -Jesse ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 01:23:28 -0500 From: Jesse Rooney Subject: IN> IN. Dan Smith By the way, Dan Smith did the art for IN's main book. - -Jesse ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 11:31:42 -0600 (CST) From: Shadowcat Subject: IN> Ideas from the comic shop. Greenthings and Salivations I was at a comic shop today just a couple blocks from my fiance Fran's parent's place and picked up a couple of interesting items. First was a graphic novel version of Clive Staple Lewis' book "The Screwtape Letters" (ISBN 0-8407-6261-5) with an introuction by Neil Gaiman. {I hadn't known that Gaiman and Pratchett had won a British awqard for religious fiction for 'Good Omens"}. It is an abridged version, but still a lot of fun. The other thing I found was issue 4 of 'Night Force,' the story is about a priest who has to deliver an angel in a jar to Satan from God, so that Humans can retain freewill for another year. This could be an interesting plot for a Soldiers campaighn. Shadowcat All cats may look upon a king. No comment on the Queen ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 08:57:23 -0000 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: Re: Re: IN> Red Dwarf >What is being looked for is clever, creative, and intellectual >English-language TV comedy produced in the United States. The Simpsons. jo nb. It is however true that British TV is significantly better than what they get in mainland Europe (all my European friends who have ever lived here are astounded that we don't spend all our spare time indoors glued to the BBC), and probably significantly better //ON AVERAGE// than the American equivalent (again, according to American friends who have spent time here). I don't know why this is. Must be a culture thing -- Europe & America do produce all the best films (IMO). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 04:35:38 -0500 From: "Thomas Davidson" Subject: IN> Angelic Player's Guide. . . . Has anyone seen this yet? According to the S.J. Games web-site, this is listed as a "New Release". Or am I misinterpreting things (nothing unusual there)? TIA. Thomas Davidson tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us MUSIC: Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, Rush, Jimi Hendrix GAMES: Champions (old and new), In Nomine, Nephilim TV: The X-Files, The Simpsons, Superman, The Tick, The Animaniacs OTHER: Religion, Philosophy, mysticism, the runes, the Tarot, writing ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 04:43:18 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael C. Nutt" Subject: IN>More Shedim stuff... >> >>>If you want to make that a house rule, fine, but Canon is that he does >> *not* make any disturbance when he hops.<<< >> >> Nope, canon is that Shedim have to assume celestial form between hosts, >> which causes a normal disturbance. Though as Elizabeth mentioned, there >> will be a trick they can pull to get around that in the Infernal Player's >> Guide. > >Beth announced that rules change after I sent this message. Note that John >Karakash was very clear that the above is not the case when he answered >this question earlier. Frankly, I liked that answer a lot better...it >might have made Shedim a little hard to handle, but the new ruling makes >them practically useless. I must admit, I choked when I read this the first time. Wonderful spit-take... Haagenti would have been proud. Grape juice *everywhere*! "...practically useless"???? Are there no politicians in your game? No clergymen? No police officers? No military men? No bank officers? No judges? No doctors? No scientists? No humans who hold positions of power and importance and influence? No humans whose memories and abilities could prove useful to the infernal legions? Go back and reread the section on Shedim in the corebook... if you can't come up with some serious potential there, just check out some of the adventure seeds people have posted to the list. Anyway, even *if* you're just looking for combat-monsters, Shedim aren't exactly weaklings, either. This host is about dead? Switch to another one... if you're getting beaten up, it's not like you're undetected, anyway. Guess what? You've just gotten all your hit points back, plus maybe some extras if this host is tougher than the last one. If they want to fight you celestially... well, Soul hits depend on Will, and demons generally have higher Will scores than angels. Worst comes to worst, run for Hell. >> >>>In fact, if he did, I can't see why anyone would want to play a Shedim! >> THey'd be the only Celestials in the game with resonance that causes a >> disturbance automatically!<<< >> >> Calabim, usually. > >Only if they damage something Symphonic. Which is.... everything except a celestial's Vessel, or an Artifact. Anyway, it's not *that* big a deal... sure, celestials that are within a quarter-mile or less *might* hear you, if they're lucky, but you can surely manage some sort of more secluded location to switch out, or even just a *secure* one. It's not like angels are spread in tight nets across the entire corporeal realm, y'know... the forces of *Hell* are the ones whose strength lies in numbers. Disturbance, in limited quantity, isn't *that* big a deal. Unless your GM has sown celestials so thickly that there's a significant population of them in every city block, you can minimize the risks that disturbance will create. Not eliminated, true... but they can be reduced. >> Also note that if all of a Kyriotate's Forces are invested in hosts, then >> taking some out to manifest a celestial form creates a disturbance too. > >So? *Any* celestial manifesting like that causes a disturbance. > >Like I said, I hope this new ruling isn't going to be the case; it >drastically cuts down on Shedim (and Kyriotate--I assume that this change >*does* apply to Kyriotates?) usefulness. Horsefeathers. It keeps Shedim from being nigh-unstoppable, that's all. Kyrios have their own limits that keep them from being total monsters, too... that "take care of the host" rule, as well as no access to memories. Michael Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 04:46:14 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> The Demon of Celebrity Stalkers "GEORGE! OVER HERE! I LOOOOOOOVE YOOOOOUUUUUU!!!!" The actor looked up, as the voice seemed to stand out from the clamor of photographers and fans gathered at the Planet Hollywood event. Perhaps he sensed there was something different about the speaker, or maybe intuition connected the sudden screech with the obsessive, unsettling letters and phone calls he'd been getting. He looked across the crowd, but couldn't pick anyone out with all the camera flashes going off in his face. Shuddering, he smiled, waved, and hurried inside. **There were too many people** Othoros crooned to her host. **Of course he couldn't stop and talk to you. But he heard you. You saw how he looked right at you?** The pimply-faced woman nodded to herself, agreeing with the thoughts she thought were her own. He _knew_. As soon as she could meet him face to face, everything would be perfect. He'd realize what a special relationship they had, and they would be together forever, just like she'd always dreamed. She didn't worry about how they'd get rid of that slut the tabloids had been connecting romantically with her man. She knew he was only with the bimbo for the publicity. It would all work out. The voices told her so. _George_ said so, in her dreams, and then last night right while she was watching him on TV! Soon they'd be together forever. - --------------------------------------------------------------------- OTHOROS The Demon of Celebrity Stalkers Shedite of the Media Corporeal Forces -- 2 Strength 4 Agility 4 Ethereal Forces -- 3 Intelligence 6 Precision 6 Celestial Forces -- 5 Will 10 Perception 10 Servant: Obsessed Fan/6 Songs: Attraction (Ethereal/6), Charm (Celestial/2), Dreams (Corporeal/3, Celestial/2), Form (Ethereal/4, Celestial/3), Shields (Celestial/2) Skills: Climbing/3, Computer Operation/2, Driving/1, Fast-Talk/4, Knowledge (Celebrities/6), Lying/3, Ranged Weapon (Pistol/3), Savoir-Faire/1, Small Weapon (Knife/2) Attunements: Balseraph of the Media, Shedite of the Media, Subliminal, the Demon of Celebrity Stalkers (see below) Special Attunement: As the Demon of Celebrity Stalkers, Othoros's victims get no daily Perception roll to realize they are not in control so long as they are obsessed with a celebrity. Also, Othoros only needs to win one daily contest of Wills as she urges her host to go further in his or her obsession -- so long as the acts she forces are in pursuit of that obsession, she does not need to win a contest of Wills for every other evil act that day. Nybbas has also made special arrangements with her as to her servant (see below). Special Rites: Othoros gains an extra point of Essence each day a celebrity whom her host is stalking is in the news as a result of that stalking -- or each day the _stalker_ is in the news. If she was responsible for the incident, she continues to gain Essence even after she has left the host! Othoros has led a charmed life. A very young demon, not long on Earth, she narrowly avoided destruction at the hands of her wrathful Prince and gained a Word before she gained her first additional Force. All as a result of one extraordinary event that she blithely planned and executed without ever dreaming what consequences it would reap. In 1980, Othoros was just another Shedite of the Media, newly arrived on Earth. Like most Shedim of the Media, she was expected to make people famous for doing awful things, generating more media coverage of social deviants and horrible tragedies. It was pure chance (unless you talk to Kronos) that caused her to cross paths with Mark David Chapman. When she stumbled upon the disturbed and obsessive young man, she knew she had material with which to engineer a major media event. What better way to make someone famous than by getting him to _kill_ someone famous? She (and Mark) considered and rejected numerous celebrities before settling on John Lennon. On December 8, 1980, Mark David Chapman shot and killed the former Beatles member outside his apartment in New York City. Nybbas was not exactly pleased with what his Servitor had done. In fact, "not pleased" would be an understatement. She escaped immediate destruction only because Nybbas threw her back to Hell while thinking about exactly what punishment would be appropriate. John Lennon had been one of his favorites, and what the Hell good was a _dead_ celebrity? But then his minions reported a curious phenomenon to him -- Mark David Chapman, in custody, was becoming a major celebrity himself. People were sneaking into the hospital where he'd been temporarily incarcerated, and even conspired to slip him fraudulent documents to sign, just so they could get his autograph! Kronos dropped a note to the Prince of the Media, saying "Well done, I see good things coming from this." And then Othoros, imprisoned in Perdition and anxiously awaiting her Superior's return (whereupon he would probably televise her execution), received a visit from Lucifer. He was just passing through, as he does in every Principality every so often, and he chose that time to take notice of the quivering young Shedite and grant her a boon. Most diabolicals in her situation would probably have asked the Darkest of Dark Lords to put in a good word for her with her Prince, or just transfer her to another Prince's service outright and spare her life. Instead, Othoros asked for a Word. Lucifer laughed. A demon so brash as to think she'd done the right thing despite the fact that her Prince was about to obliterate her for it -- and who dared to ask him for a Word after just one (seemingly botched) assignment on Earth! -- deserved a chance to prove herself. He granted her the Word of Celebrity Stalkers. Of course Lucifer made no promises as to her disposition by Nybbas, and the Prince of the Media was still fully within his rights if he wanted to make Othoros's Word the shortest-lived ever. But he didn't. Impressed by the attention Chapman was receiving as a result of her stunt, and perhaps thinking that if Kronos and Lucifer were both pleased, she might have something there, Nybbas not only let Othoros live, but sent her back to Earth to continue propagating her Word -- with strict instructions that in the future, she was not to _kill_ any celebrities without his approval! Celebrity stalking is now an ever-increasing phenomenon. Mark David Chapman literally started a trend, as many other famous celebrity stalkers (including John Hinkley) have been found to have been inspired by him. Hollywood stars complain constantly about their lack of privacy, even as they continue basking in the limelight and pull outrageous stunts to get more attention. They decry tabloids while catering to the most banal media organs, and the public decries tabloids while buying them in record numbers. Furthermore, as media figures increase their personal security for fear of stalkers, they become more isolated within the celebrity world, putting up more and more barriers between the rich and famous and everyone else. This appeals to Nybbas very much. Still, he hasn't quite forgiven Othoros for killing his favorite drug-addicted rock star, and _all_ of his other Servitors resent her, for doing something so blatantly incautious and ill-advised and not only getting away with it, but coming out of it with a Word, after less than a year on Earth. Then there is the fact that the more Othoros succeeds in encouraging borderline personalities with low self-esteem to begin stalking their favorite star, the more unpredictable loonies there are out there, stalking Nybbas's prime talent. Othoros certainly can't control them all -- whomever _she_ is possessing might not kill their fixation (she often pushes them to suicide, or to kill someone else, as a final act, abandoning the host just before the trigger is pulled), but all the other mortals out there acting of their own free will might. So while so far Othoros's Word has benefited Nybbas, he remains suspicious, and Othoros has remained at the bottom end of Word-bound Servitors. Fearful of a disaster that will provoke Nybbas to eliminate her, Othoros has begun taking advice, albeit grudgingly, from Grengarl, the Demon of Stalking. Their Words overlap, and Grengarl has a lot more experience, and much to teach her. However, the Shedite is naturally loathe to work with a Djinn, and Grengarl barely conceals his contempt for her. They have a most unusual relationship, two vastly different Servitors from opposing Bands and unfriendly Princes. The only thing they have in common is a pair of closely-connected Words -- if the Word of one wanes, it will probably reflect on the other. The recent Princess Diana tragedy was not of Othoros's making, though it put a terrible fright into her -- she was afraid Nybbas _would_ blame her. Mortals often connect paparazzi and stalkers, but the Demon of Paparazzi was not a friend of Othoros. They should have been allied, considering how much they could have helped one another, but like most of Nybbas' Servitors, he resented the young Shedite and shunned her. In light of what happened to that hapless demon after that car crash in Paris, Othoros counted herself lucky he did. Nybbas granted Othoros a twist on the usual Shedite of the Media attunement: instead of having one constant servant, she gets to pick someone who already has an obsession on a celebrity. If she succeeds in her initial possession attempt, that person becomes her servant for as long as she is engineering the person's downward slide. When she's finished, she can discard that victim and find a new one. Her servants _must_ already have an obsession which they developed on their own, though it can be a minor one that without her aggravation would never amount to more than buying every Franklin Mint commemorative item featuring the person they adore. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 04:46:19 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> The Demon of Stalking "I did it... I actually got up the nerve to ask her out." Glenn smiled encouragingly at his new friend. The mortal was unkempt, overweight, and poorly groomed. He lived with his mother and worked as an assistant manager at a comic book shop. Next door to the comic book shop was a gym, and every afternoon, a pretty blonde aerobics instructor walked past the shop's mirrored glass windows, decorated with X-Men posters and a life-sized cardboard Darth Vader cutout, and paused to stare at her reflection and adjust her hair. This gave the man behind the counter a clandestine close-up view of the busty young woman in her skintight leotard. Glenn collected comic books obsessively. He didn't even read all the ones he bought, but his pad was always full of boxes stuffed with them. Other diabolicals didn't think this was particularly strange -- Djinn are like that. There were other reasons why Glenn was fond of frequenting comic and game shops and fan conventions, though; they were great places to find socially retarded adolescents of all ages, like Mike the comic shop manager. "So what happened?" Glenn asked. Mike's face fell. "She said to get lost." Glenn shrugged. "Women always say that." "Especially to me," Mike said glumly. "Yeah, well, figure she's gotta have guys pestering her constantly at the gym. You know fitness centers are just places for muscle-bound hunks to hit on chicks. Of course, if she ever gave you the slightest chance, she'd probably be amazed at what she was passing up. You could be the man of her dreams and _she'll_ never know." "Guys like us never get a chance with girls like that," Mike mumbled. "Uh huh..." Glenn was very good at feigning sympathy. "Instead they always go for buff neanderthals who'll just sit on the couch and drink beer. And probably abuse them. Not like you, you'd be respectful and kind, but do girls want that? Do they want someone who's smart and creative and witty and sensitive, like the average comic and gamer-type?" Here, Glenn always had a little trouble keeping a straight face, but he was getting better at it. "Nooooo, all they see is biceps and washboard abs....." "If only she'd give me a chance....." Mike sighed. Glenn smiled. It was gnawing on Mike's mind. And he'd make sure the blonde aerobics instructor continued to haunt the fat loser's dreams, waking and sleeping. Not for the first time, he wished he was a Balseraph, or a Habbalite. It would make tasks like this so much easier. But he was getting pretty good at scoping out prospective victims and figuring out what buttons to push even without a diabolical resonance to help him. And a Balseraph or a Habbalite could only take pleasure in provoking someone else into obsessive behavior -- Glenn reveled in the thrill of the chase, the joy of pursuit and the sweet smell of fear..... But he couldn't spend all his time indulging in his own pleasures. He had a Word to support. Right now, Mike was just another fanboy geek who got off on Penthouse Letters and Gor novels, and oggled any girl whose proportions came near to those of an Image comic book cover. But with just the right combination of hope and frustration, he might become the man of that girl's dreams after all. Glenn knew -- he'd been there, and soon he'd make Mike a part of them...on Beleth's side of the Marches. - --------------------------------------------------------------------- GRENGARL The Demon of Stalking Djinn Captain of Headhaunters Corporeal Forces -- 5 Strength 12 Agility 8 Ethereal Forces -- 4 Intelligence 10 Precision 6 Celestial Forces -- 4 Will 8 Perception 8 Vessels: Human/3, Cat/2, Bird/1 Songs: Attraction (Ethereal/4), Charm (Corporeal/5), Dreams (Celestial/6), Form (Ethereal/3, Celestial/5), Motion (Corporeal/2, Celestial/2), Possession/5, Tongues (Ethereal/3, Celestial/3) Skills: Emote/4, Fast-Talk/4, Knowledge (Psychology/5), Lockpicking/6, Lying/2, Move Silently/6, Tracking/2 Attunements: Djinn of Nightmares, Impudite of Nightmares, Captain of Headhaunters, Dream Joining, Dream Walking, the Demon of Stalking (see below) Special Attunement: Although Grengarl cannot directly harm someone to whom he is attuned, he does not suffer dissonance for emotional harm he causes by stalking and terrorizing someone, not even if he pushes his victim to the point of suicide. Other Djinn serving Grengarl also receive this benefit. Special Rites: Grengarl receives a point of Essence every time someone to whom he is attuned flees from his presence. He also receives a point of Essence if he succeeds in pushing another person into obsessively stalking someone. He may grant these Rites to others. The basic practice of stalking has been around for a long, long time, but it's fairly recently that it became a cultural phenomenon inspiring anxiety and fear on a society-wide level. Djinn of Nightmares have always been responsible for physical harassment and terrorization, but Grengarl attracted Beleth's attention with his subtle and malevolent touch -- he _never_ overtly threatened his victims or gave them an obvious reason to fear him. Sometimes he even befriended them initially. Then he would tamper with their dreams, turn himself into an object of irrational fear, and begin showing up wherever his victims where -- everywhere. They couldn't get away from him, they couldn't seem to keep him at a distance no matter what precautions they used, and they couldn't do anything about it because he never _did_ anything, just followed them around and smiled. After he drove two people to suicide and turned another half a dozen into paranoid neurotics, Beleth knew she had an unusually talented Servitor. Glengarl started getting promotions and additional gifts to help him in his work, and he began setting his sights on a Word. The Word he chose was very apropos, and he did all the research he needed to support it. He studied human nature, particularly obsession, and got very good at manipulating people, with a combination of psychology and dream-tampering. Once he'd established a successful track record at turning harmless crushes into murderous obsessions, including several infamous murder-suicide stalking cases, Beleth sponsored his application for the Word of Stalking, and Lucifer granted it with alacrity. This up-and-coming Servitor, however, has recently suffered some major setbacks. After being a little too successful in encouraging the spread of his Word, public awareness rose, and anti-stalking laws started to appear. Now there is an increasing crackdown on stalkers, making things much more difficult for them, and Glengarl's Word is in jeopardy. Many of his Band members are angry at him, because anti-stalking laws can inconvenience any Djinn, especially when a legal-savvy angel takes advantage of them. Into this precarious situation walked (oozed, roiled) Othoros (see below), and while Glengarl's Word has been strengthened by Othoros's serendipitous promotion, he is very much aware that a major screw-up by Othoros can backlash on him as well. It doesn't help that Othoros is a Shedite. Glengarl considers Othoros an uncertain ally, a wild card that may benefit or cripple him. It rankles his hide that he has no real control over the Shedite of the Media whose Word overlaps with his. Still, for now he derives what benefit he can out of their bellicose relationship. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 12:58:26 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN>More Shedim stuff... > >might have made Shedim a little hard to handle, but the new ruling makes > >them practically useless. > > I must admit, I choked when I read this the first time. Wonderful > spit-take... Haagenti would have been proud. Grape juice *everywhere*! > > "...practically useless"???? Are there no politicians in your game? No > clergymen? No police officers? No military men? No bank officers? No judges? > No doctors? No scientists? No humans who hold positions of power and > importance and influence? No humans whose memories and abilities could prove > useful to the infernal legions? The original point I was making in this thread was the extent of the usefulness of the Shedite resonance. The Shedite, on his own, was able to get his hands on video evidence which showed just what happened to the high-ranking demon we were supposed to be tracking. How? By possessing the head of the hotel's security. When a Malakite bothered him (unconfirmed, but we assume it was one), he stunned it and shot his vessel to pieces. With the gun belonging to the head of hotel security. In the hand of the head of hotel security. > > Anyway, even *if* you're just looking for combat-monsters, Shedim aren't > exactly weaklings, either. This host is about dead? Switch to another one... Or just go straight to Celestial. This is where disturbances begin to mount up. > if you're getting beaten up, it's not like you're undetected, anyway. Guess > what? You've just gotten all your hit points back, plus maybe some extras if > this host is tougher than the last one. If they want to fight you > celestially... well, Soul hits depend on Will, and demons generally have > higher Will scores than angels. Worst comes to worst, run for Hell. > Will is probably a higher priority for Shedim than other demons in any case. There aren't any other demons whose corporeal manifestation depends on their Will, after all. > > > >Only if they damage something Symphonic. > Except Calabim of Fire. > > Disturbance, in limited quantity, isn't *that* big a deal. Unless your GM > has sown celestials so thickly that there's a significant population of them > in every city block, you can minimize the risks that disturbance will > create. Not eliminated, true... but they can be reduced. > The problem is that if the issue is very important, disturbance is a massive deal. I worked out with the GM that the disturbance from our encounter with 2 Malakites would extend between 2 or 3 miles. (We had several changes to Celestial form and a total of 13 Essence was spent) How many angels are in the city of Geneva? How many more will Laurence or Michael send if important plans are being ripped up and the muscle has been inconvenienced? Disturbance can be quite a big deal. > > Horsefeathers. It keeps Shedim from being nigh-unstoppable, that's all. > Kyrios have their own limits that keep them from being total monsters, > too... that "take care of the host" rule, as well as no access to memories. > > I agree that leaving and entering hosts should create Symphonic Disturbance. Otherwise the sheer trouble-making potential is too much. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #503 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.