From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Dec 17 19:07:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA15280 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 19:07:22 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id SAA14039 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 18:54:47 -0600 Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 18:54:47 -0600 Message-Id: <199712180054.SAA14039@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #523 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, December 17 1997 Volume 01 : Number 523 In this digest: Re: IN> Silly little rules rape Re: IN> capturing an angel Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions IN> Sex, Lies & Balseraphs Re: IN> Silly little rules rape Re: IN> Sex, Lies & Balseraphs Re: IN> Sex, Lies & Balseraphs Re: IN> Silly little rules rape Re: IN> Silly little rules rape IN> Merry Christmas Re: IN> Sex, Lies & Balseraphs Re: IN> Silly little rules rape Re: IN> I need advice and answers Re: IN> capturing an angel Re: IN> Silly little rules rape Re: IN> Silly little rules rape Re: IN> Songs (Other Vessel Questions) Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions Re: IN> Merry Christmas IN> One of Us IN> Combat, HP, et al Re: IN> Combat, HP, et al IN> Soldiers of God question RE: IN> Soldiers of God question Re: IN> In Anime: Movie Trailer DVPBEM Fluff (Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions) Re: IN> Sex, Lies & Balseraphs Re: IN> IN Anime movie trailer : 2 Forces (Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions) Re: IN> Songs (Other Vessel Questions) Re: IN> capturing an angel ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 10:05:17 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Silly little rules rape > Last night as I was wending my way home in the freezing night air, it > occured to me that, with the Balseraph of Fate attunement, I could > justify getting the Lilim resonance, on the grounds that Bright Lilim > exist, and are angels, and have the Lilite resonance. This strikes me as > silly. One for the FAQ? AUGH! This needs to be stomped! Thanks for pointing it out before I had a new "Angel" jump into my game, possibly with that very attunement. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 10:13:08 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> capturing an angel > Or, if you're a Balseraph, tell the Malakite you want to redeem, then > talk about the weather for the couple of minutes you have left before he > cops on and tries to kill you. Er, if you're a Balseraph, don't do this. Just, it's a bad plan. Think up a better set of lies. Come ON! You bought that 11 Intelligence for SOMETHING. Keep in mind that the Balseraph lives in a little bubble of it's delusions. It is still resonating Truth, but it's own Truth from it's own broken Symphony. If they said, "I want to redeem," and resonanted, for that moment they have to believe "I want to redeem". The problem is when their next action proves they don't want to do this, and they pick up dissonance. All of the sudden they have this new lie floating around in their bubble which is incompatible with the rest of the bullshit. That, and if it fails, the Malakite is going to pummel you to paste. If it works, and the Malakite explores this a little, they'll figure out you're lying and they'll pummel you to paste. And Malakim Really Hate Balseraphs. Remember the best lies are 99% truth, and that keeps the dissonance away. I may be wrong, hell I'm often wrong, but this has always been my view of my favorite six eyed friends. - - Em, Balseraph of Happy Fun Balseraphs ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 10:20:09 EST From: "Perry M. Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions [Kevin] > >I was going to post a self-righteous claim that I, at least, would never > >do such a thing, until I realised that I had on a number of occasions. [Perry] > Me, I've only penalized Eth Forces ONCE, that's was in Redneck's DVPBEM, > ironically. :) > > Why? Usually I play soldiers when I'm a player because I doubt I'd be > very able to see things from a Celestial's point of view. But, I'm > playing a demon in DVPBEM. I lowered his Eth forces because I didn't > think that I, as human, could possible role-play that high an Intelligence. > I could do 4, but 6? [Kevin] >6 Intelligence is about equivalent to 130 IQ (I'm extrapolating from >WOD). A fair bit above average for humans, but not amazingly so. Of >course, I can't see myself roleplaying someone with Intelligence 8 very >well, but a fair number of characters of mine have around that. Hey! I can do IQ 130! Not that I really know how good that number is, but it doesn't sound TOO high... >I don't think so. I didn't want a lowered Int and >> out of proportion Precision (snap-shot from hell) so I went with the two Eth >> forces. >> [Kevin] >No, go for disproprotion! I usually go the other way, though, making >smart characters who can't hold a gun straight (lack of any ranged weapon >skills has an impact there though). Yeah, a killer snapsnot wound have been keen. Oh, well! :) Slick is cool. [Kevin] >As for the lack of ranged weapon skills, it's probably due to my >environment. In Ireland, where I live, having handguns or crossbows is >illegal, you need a licence for a rifle or a shotgun, and automatic >weapons are out unless you're the Army or the Special Branch. Even most >police don't have guns. So I tend to think of guns as things that you'd >never get to use. Even though I know that some gangs, and the various >paramilitary groups have them, the average scummer has to make do with >knives and blood-filled syringes. Yiurk... Blood-filled syringes... > In a way, it only makes sense to me that people would sacrifice Eth forces > for a higher Corp or Cele. I mean, if a Superior hasn't designed a > celestial being to need to play around in the Dreamlands and they can > function pretty well with a human intelligence brain, why not pump up > their Corp or Eth? > [Kevin] >They mightn't be able to function all that well, if they're being >outthought by enemy Celestials. Well, I tend to be of the opinion tha seperating Player Intelligence and Cunning and Character Intelligence and Cunning is pretty hard. "I don't know what to do... I'll just ask my character for an idea, his Intelligence is higher than mine!" > But, me, I sacrificed Eth forces for the sake of role-playing. I've only made > one celestial player character so far, the rest have been all soldiers. :) [Kevin] >I'm told that we're eventually going to have soldier-type characters. I'm >torn between a Vampire with every folklore-based Discord I can think of >and a heavily deranged Sorcerer. (Every demonic character I have ever >created has Discord, frequently lots of it. As for WOD characters, I tend >to produce either a history or a group of flaws that seriously hampers >the character, like the time I gave a Mage the Lifesaver flaw combined >with the Throwback flaw (one of his past lives sitting in his head, >commenting on his every action). That was amusing.) I've love to get into my Mage stuff, but not on IM Nailing List. Yeah, lots of Discord. The one vampire character I have (Eternal Dawn, check it OUT!) has more discord than needed, including one for Needing his earth beside him while he sleeps, an extra vulnearability (read P.N. Elrod's Vampire Files series!) and something called Blood Rage (not unlike the Frenzy of WW when a vampire NEEDS BLOOD). Marsyas is so cool. Hmmm... vampire or soldier? Well, I LOVE vampires, they have that whole "I'm going to live forever and I'm SO depressed/angry/sad/happy/sexy" thing going on. I haven't read the stuff about sorcerors, but from what what I've seen in the GM's Pack (Get the Game Screen, Read FEAST OF BLADES!!!) they look really cool. Insane and loving/hating it. - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd "Amidst my scarcely-strifled groans, Amidst my moaning deep, I heard a voice, "Wake! Mr. Jones, You're screaming in your sleep!" -Lewis Carrol (from "Horrors"-1850) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 15:21:59 -0000 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: IN> Sex, Lies & Balseraphs (This was vaguely something I was toying with as part of a plot idea, and I coudln't decide which way to jump with it) A balseraph has to believe its own lies before it can invoke its resonance. So if it was trying to persuade a dangerous-looking angel that it was trying to redeem, yes truly, honestly, would I lie to you ... and the angels could keep it talking for long enough to get it to a superior, would it actually redeem? jo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 15:43:11 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Silly little rules rape > > > Last night as I was wending my way home in the freezing night air, it > > occured to me that, with the Balseraph of Fate attunement, I could > > justify getting the Lilim resonance, on the grounds that Bright Lilim > > exist, and are angels, and have the Lilite resonance. This strikes me as > > silly. One for the FAQ? > > AUGH! This needs to be stomped! > > Thanks for pointing it out before I had a new "Angel" jump into my game, > possibly with that very attunement. > Actually, I have a cool rationale/rationalisation (you decide which it is) for not allowing it. Firstly, in the Redemption setting under Lilim it says, and I quote, with no challenge intended to copyright etc... "If a Lilim truly repents and wishes to join the angels (see p. 60) - and yes, it can happen - she does not become part of any angelic Choir. There is none corresponding to her Band." (p. 148) On p. 172, it says... "Kronos' Balseraphs, at character creation may choose to emulate the resonance of any one _Choir_ of angel." (My own emphasis.)" It can reasonably be argued that Bright Lilim do not constitute a Choir, simply members of their Band who happen to be Bright, though it presents the small problem of being now able to talk about a Band of Angels. Plus, as John Karakash pointed out, it makes Lilith just a bit less important if Kronos can pull off the same trick. (Though he might refrain from doing so in order to keep Lilith onside for sinister reasons of his own.) And of course it does say on page 150 "Other Princes have engendered their own ideas of the perfect infernal seductress, but no one can duplicate the Lilim". On a tangentially related issue, has anyone else noticed the similarity between the Malakite and Lilite resonances? ObDisclaimer: I know that Malakim and Lilim correspond only in number. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 15:48:11 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Sex, Lies & Balseraphs > (This was vaguely something I was toying with as part of a plot idea, and I > coudln't decide which way to jump with it) > > A balseraph has to believe its own lies before it can invoke its resonance. > So if it was trying to persuade a dangerous-looking angel that it was trying > to redeem, yes truly, honestly, would I lie to you ... and the angels could > keep it talking for long enough to get it to a superior, would it actually > redeem? > I will now admit that I was wrong and it was a silly idea. As for plot ideas, you've been assigned to rescue a Balseraph who put himself in this situation...and hand the traitor over to the Game for punishment. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 10:48:04 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Sex, Lies & Balseraphs > (This was vaguely something I was toying with as part of a plot idea, and I > coudln't decide which way to jump with it) > > A balseraph has to believe its own lies before it can invoke its resonance. > So if it was trying to persuade a dangerous-looking angel that it was trying > to redeem, yes truly, honestly, would I lie to you ... and the angels could > keep it talking for long enough to get it to a superior, would it actually > redeem? > No. The Balseraph would pick up dissonance as soon as it realized that it didn't really WANT to redeem, it was all a lie it caught itself in, and then the Superior would do some force seperating. Balseraphs don't spontaniously redeem. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 11:00:27 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Silly little rules rape Kevin Walsh wrote: > On a tangentially related issue, has anyone else noticed the > similarity between the Malakite and Lilite resonances? Yes, it was discussed on the list a few months back. Not only do they have similar schticks -- for oaths or geases -- as well as corresponding in rank-number, they "correspond" by failing to have true opposite numbers. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 11:02:47 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Silly little rules rape > On a tangentially related issue, has anyone else noticed the similarity > between the Malakite and Lilite resonances? > ObDisclaimer: I know that Malakim and Lilim correspond only in number. > *pull out soapbox* *stand on soapbox* Yes. *get off soapbox* *put away soapbox* I have about a dozen emails archived on my favorite subject, why "Lilim aren't very evil and Malakim are really demons", from a few months ago. It is, indeed, my very favorite argument, in which I end up writing piles and piles of philosophical nonsense. We've been through this once. Dunno if my hands or my sanity can take it again, so I suggest poking through the mail list digest archives. Wait... I have sanity? - - Em, Your Fun Balseraph Pal! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 17:07:02 +0100 (MET) From: David Skogsberg Subject: IN> Merry Christmas So I'm a little early in my well-wishing. Sue me. I'm going to Australia come Friday. I just want to wish all the nice people[1] on this list a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. I'll be back in three weeks. cd - -- cd skogsberg | Erst wenn die Wolken/Schlafen gehen/Kann man uns am | d97skog@dtek. | Himmel sehen/Wir haben angst und sind allein | chalmers.se | Gott weiß ich will kein Engel sein | ______________|_________________ Rammstein, _Engel_ ________________| ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 11:10:02 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> Sex, Lies & Balseraphs >A balseraph has to believe its own lies before it can invoke its resonance. >So if it was trying to persuade a dangerous-looking angel that it was trying >to redeem, yes truly, honestly, would I lie to you ... and the angels could >keep it talking for long enough to get it to a superior, would it actually >redeem? Well, I'd just point out that the Balseraph attunement is to get someone else to believe what the Balseraph says. And not -everything- a Bal says is a lie.... }:-{D Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | "It's Christmas in Heaven, http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | there's great shows on TV; c/o White Lightning Productions | the Sound of Music twice an hour http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | and Jaws I, II and III." Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- A Nybbas Christmas http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 12:50:39 -0600 (CST) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Silly little rules rape On Wed, 17 Dec 1997, Emily Dresner wrote: > Dunno if my hands or my sanity can take it again, so I suggest poking > through the mail list digest archives. I've got them here on my mail spool...somewhere (damn, I need the Cherub of Archives attunement!). Once they are found, collated, folded/spindled/mutilated/etc, they will be uploaded to mistress's Archives. - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:06:12 -0500 From: Jesse Subject: Re: IN> I need advice and answers >So you are attacking all the time with your Magnum .44 but only manage to >fire once in five seconds. Because aiming isn't included in those five >seconds this sounds a little strange. Have you ever tried to "fan" a gun or shoot a Magnum alot? It is difficult given the kick a Magnum produces. It seems to me that in terms of Magnums and most swords one attack per 5 secounds is being nice and allowing for more attacks by those weapons than I would expect in real life. However I am not about to change the combat system around so it includes realistic weapon speeds because (a) I have better things to do, (b) I like the combat system the way it is, simple. The combat system was made simple because the designers wanted more focus on something other than combat. If all you are going to do is fight and debate about the Power of fists than you might as well be playing Street Fighter. Realism may be a kind of silly goal to aim for in a world populated by Angels and Demons (or may be not.). - -Jesse I ain't got no shame, But I got my pride, I am just trying to get along, On the upper, upper, upper, West Side! PDQ Bach, "Classical Rap" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:38:10 -0500 From: Jesse Subject: Re: IN> capturing an angel >Hello, I am a GM in the Netherlands (so excuse me if I don´t type correct >English) and I have a question about how to capture an angel (or demon).< <> >So, is there a way you can capture and imprison an angel (he has no >dissonance (yet) so i can´t use Dissonance Binding on him). Any >suggestions or ideas are welcomed. Here is an idea- invent the Shackles of Binding a relic that prevents a celestial from going celestial. - -Jesse I ain't got no shame, But I got my pride, I am just trying to get along, On the upper, upper, upper, West Side! PDQ Bach, "Classical Rap" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:44:46 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Silly little rules rape > > On a tangentially related issue, has anyone else noticed the > > similarity between the Malakite and Lilite resonances? > > Yes, it was discussed on the list a few months back. Not only do > they have similar schticks -- for oaths or geases -- as well as > corresponding in rank-number, they "correspond" by failing to have > true opposite numbers. One more bit of correspondance - both are originally the creation of a single superior. The Malakim are from Uriel, the Lilim are from Lilith. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:44:47 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Silly little rules rape > Last night as I was wending my way home in the freezing night air, > it occured to me that, with the Balseraph of Fate attunement, I > could justify getting the Lilim resonance, on the grounds that > Bright Lilim exist, and are angels, and have the Lilite resonance. > This strikes me as silly. One for the FAQ? > > The same would go for Yves' Master distinction. > > Also, has anyone noticed that this means both of them have the > resonance of every single Choir of Angels? After all, you can't hand > out powers you don't have yourself. (At least allegedly you can't.) Well, I'd point out that both Yves and Kronos are manifestations of God, and so very well might have all the Choir attunements. However, given that God did not create the Lilim, I don't think allowing either the ability to take the Bright Lilim resonance makes sense. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:44:46 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Songs (Other Vessel Questions) > > Too noisy, too obvious, and leave very *strange* wounds on dead > > bodies. > > Noisy? They have no degree of disturbance apart from the Essence > cost. Yeah, but a gun has no DOD at *all*... > As for the wounds, killing anyone is a problem because it can be > laid at your door sooner or later. My guess is that there are > Servitors of Asmodeus out there who make damn sure things like this > go into the looney file. The thing is, an unsolved shooting, unless the target was rich or powerful, is less likely to get attention than an unsolved claw slashing... > > And if you have a problem with carrying weapons all the time, take > > the +4 modifier Summonable for 1 Essence. > > a) That doesn't appear in the rulebook, and not every GM is going to > allow you to make up your own funky modifiers. It will appear in Librum Reliquarium, unless things have changed since I talked to Beth. I know, that's cheating, but... > b) Not every GM is going to allow artifacts either. They're supposed > to be rare, right? If your GM doesn't allow it, go for the NC, I guess... > c) In many ways, it's just as noisy and obvious as Numinous Corpus. > After all, given that people were searched and no weapons were > allowed, how did that gun get in? And it has the same Essence cost. Okay, here's three of my own: a) Automatically successful - no roll necessary to get the guns. b) You can banish them at any time for no cost. So just carry them on a concealed holster until somebody bad looks. And somebody sneaking guns by security is more believable than somebody growing claws... c) Only a fool brings claws to a gun-fight... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:44:47 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions > > 1) Give all vampires the Vampiric Kiss attunement automatically, > > in addition to the 10 points for another attunement. > > I reckon this probably makes more sense than the others. And let's > fact it, any Vampire who wants a reliable Essence supply will want > to buy it anyway. Well, any Undead will want to, too. Only I wasn't paying attention when I built my uber-Mummy (big, been around for a while, on par with starting celestials). > > 3) Give vampires the points for their discord, possibly instead > > of the 10 points they are given. > > I dunno about that. I'm pretty sure that's how it works for > Renegades, Outcasts, and Calabites, but the scale of the discord is > rather larger in the case of Vampires, and it was put in place to > stop their Soul falling into bits, after all. Like I said, any of these can be done only for PCs. After all, PCs are supposed to be fairly extraordinary. > (Does that mean that any Prince/Archangel could destroy the Vampire > by removing one point of its vulnerability to sunlight?) Yes, though lets face it - it's easier just to stomp them (HOW many Corp Forces does it have? And you think auotsuccess, power +40 is too much?) > >Personally, I am changing a lot of things in In Nomine anyway, so > >vampires will be different anyway. Basically, while mummies need > >to be created by a demon, and use several forces from Abbadon (or > >wherever the forces are being drawn from), vampires are > >self-perpetuating. They are less powerful, but require less work > >and less forces from Hell to create - in some cases, they don't > >require any at all. This has made them a minor force in their > >own right, and one that is no longer wholly under the control of > >Hell... > > Muahahahaha! For a really scary NPC, have a 7-8 Force > Vampire with the Vampiric Kiss and Zombi attunements. Just use > Ethereal Attraction/really good combination of Seduction and > Charisma to get the Essence off someone (coincidentally killing > them) and use the Essence to raise their corpses. They don't have to make zombies - they can make new vampires. Granted, it's not as easy as in V:tM - you need some source of demonic forces. This can be Hell, or it can be another vampire. A demonic force is required for each vampire, which results in a vampire w/ 5 forces, all considered demonic for these purposes. Thus, you can sacrifice part of a vampire to create more vampires, although sacrificing the forces of another vampire requires a special attunement. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 06:28:14 +1100 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> Merry Christmas David Skogsberg wrote: > So I'm a little early in my well-wishing. Sue me. I'm going to Australia > come Friday. You'll be sorry!!! It's something like 35 degrees Celcius here at the moment (in Farenheit, that's roughly 'way too hot'), and it's not a pleasant heat. The system shock could kill you... - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia Your God drinks peach nectar Eats boiled fruit, can't fart out loud My God arm wrestled Khruschev Eats meat, farts with pride DOUG ANTHONY ALLSTARS, "Commies For Christ" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 15:32:23 -0500 From: "Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki" Subject: IN> One of Us Some theological comments from another mailing list that I thought might interest y'all... >X-Authentication-Warning: maxwell.kumo.com: majordom set sender to owner-virus@lucifer.com using -f >X-Sender: david@lucifer.com (Unverified) >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) >Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 15:10:03 -0700 >To: virus@lucifer.com, virus@lucifer.com >From: David McFadzean >Subject: Re: virus: One of Us >Sender: owner-virus@lucifer.com >Reply-To: virus@lucifer.com > >At 04:42 PM 12/16/97 -0500, Eric Boyd wrote: >>Me, I've thought and thought and decided that I'd ask God about the weather >>tomorrow. Is it going to rain? >> >>Can anyone guess why? (here's a hint: I honestly don't care if it's going >>to rain tomorrow) > >Maybe you're like me in that you wouldn't expect to get any >comprehensible answers out of God. > >Me: Why? >God: Why not? >Me: How did you create the universe? >God: I willed it. >Me: Why did you make it appear like you don't exist? >God: More fun that way. >Me: What were you thinking?! >God: I wasn't thinking in the way that you mean thinking. >Me: What do you want? >God: I have no needs. >Me: What would be a good question to ask God? >God: All questions are good questions. >Me: Are you trying to be funny? >God: Maybe. >. >. >. > >-- >David McFadzean david@lucifer.com >Memetic Engineer http://www.lucifer.com/~david/ >Church of Virus http://www.lucifer.com/virus/ > > - -- Kirt A. Dankmyer --- Academic Computing Specialist http://www.wfu.edu/~dankmyka/ -- (910) 759-4202 -- PGP public key available. For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see. --Lewis Carroll ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 15:29:30 -0600 From: ehp Subject: IN> Combat, HP, et al A justification for adding total forces to hit points. We have all heard of the power of the will allowing a person to survive far more than what is otherwise rational. And the effect of using intelligence or precision and 'rolling' with the attack or relaxing at the critical moment. But Hit points are a reflection, not of the ammount of harm the physical body can take, but the total package; how much harm they can personally absorb/avoid and have it drain their resources before the body finally gives up. You ever hear the AD&D justification for hit points, and how they can have your average people with 4 and your average 8th level warrior with 36? Use it here. It is not like this system is any more realistic than AD&D. To continue the idea into Mind hits and Soul hits: Total HP of any type = (prev HP)/2 + total forces Basically, if you want another line of reasoning, the total divine power imbued in the entity, wether they be mortal, undead or celestial in origin, affects the amount of harm they can cope with on any plane. Realistically this concept is not that difficult to accept... mind over matter / soul over matter extended to its fundamental level. And mathematically it gives a better curve for game play. Granny smith holding on to the bitter end and surviving in that bed for twenty years. Tough old bird... her body should have given up ages ago... You can justify anything given enough time. Any way, just to toy with the idea further, if the 'adding forces' thing really bothers you, then just try some other constant as the basis and minimum. Total forces is just convenient. The basic mathematical problem is what someone else pointed out... a square in the equasion, ending up with really low at one end and really high at the other. So reduce the power of the square, and use addition. Evan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 16:13:24 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> Combat, HP, et al Here's a new idea, seems kind of simple to me: Limit a Character's Vessel level to no more than his Corporeal Forces. Comments? Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | "It's Christmas in Heaven, http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | there's great shows on TV; c/o White Lightning Productions | the Sound of Music twice an hour http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | and Jaws I, II and III." Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- A Nybbas Christmas http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 16:19:38 -0800 From: "Scott Jones" Subject: IN> Soldiers of God question I am going to be starting a game where the players will be playing soldiers of god. This is more to give us all a solid idea of the system than anything else. Eventually, when everybody gets a good solid grasp of the system, I will be allowing them to play Angels. My question is are there any guidlines about how a normal human or a soldier of god can become an Angel. Just wondering. Thanks. BIZKeT ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 16:39:46 -0800 From: "Steven Feldon (Exchange)" Subject: RE: IN> Soldiers of God question Nope, there aren't, because they can't. One of the often repeated parts of canon is that there is a qualitative difference between mortal and celestial souls, and no matter what the demon promises you, you can't become one of them. A human can become a Zombi, a Mummy, a Vampire, a Soldier, a Saint, a Bodhisattva, or a house-painter, but they can _not_ become an angel. That said, if you want to change the game, just make it so that soldiers become angels when they die, as long as you can trust your players not to run screaming into gunfire as soon as you tell them that. . . . -----Original Message----- From: Scott Jones [SMTP:scojones@sprintmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 1997 4:20 PM To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Subject: IN> Soldiers of God question I am going to be starting a game where the players will be playing soldiers of god. This is more to give us all a solid idea of the system than anything else. Eventually, when everybody gets a good solid grasp of the system, I will be allowing them to play Angels. My question is are there any guidlines about how a normal human or a soldier of god can become an Angel. Just wondering. Thanks. BIZKeT ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 18:41:17 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> In Anime: Movie Trailer At 12:03 PM -0600 12/16/97, Redneck Gaijin wrote: In Nomine Tenchi!!! WHEEE! [...] >Tenchi breaks her fall. Cut to the Lilim in the house, looking innocently at >the others.> > >MIHOSHI: I'm looking for the Renegade demon Ryoko on behalf of the Game. >Have you seen her? Mihoshi, a *Lilim*? Hey, I thought being a Lil meant one had to have *brains*!! Not just luck... (I think she's an Ofanite, myself. She's the very un-acknowledged result of Novalis actually getting her way with Dommie, you see...) [...] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 18:32:30 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: DVPBEM Fluff (Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions) At 12:16 PM -0500 12/16/97, Perry M. Lloyd wrote: >Redneck said: >>(And happy day, I just got my brand new Rand McNally road atlas today, which >>means I'm all set to send the DVPBEM group on a nice loooooong stroll... >>far, far, far away from that lone existing Tether... }:-{D) > >Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! > >"This is gunna suck." :) Hey, at least you're gonna be alive to take that roadtrip. This is still debatable for me at the moment... (Non-obvious death-vows: Never abandon a comrade to capture; always be the last to retreat. Now, if Archangels are supposed to be so smart, why didn't this one give his kid a @$%#$ vessel to retreat to???) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 19:34:10 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Sex, Lies & Balseraphs At 3:21 PM +0000 12/17/97, Hart, Joanna wrote: >(This was vaguely something I was toying with as part of a plot idea, and I >coudln't decide which way to jump with it) > >A balseraph has to believe its own lies before it can invoke its resonance. >So if it was trying to persuade a dangerous-looking angel that it was trying >to redeem, yes truly, honestly, would I lie to you ... and the angels could >keep it talking for long enough to get it to a superior, would it actually >redeem? Hmmmm......... It might go through with trying, but only the GM (and player) can say for sure if it would *survive* the process... Of course, those lies only last for a few minutes, generally, so the angel would have to work fast! - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 18:07:38 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> IN Anime movie trailer : 2 At 1:00 AM -0500 12/16/97, Jesse wrote: >>This is, of course, all in anime, and all appropriately subtitled. > >So than that begs the question, what is anime? Japanese animation. Stuff like G-Force, or Sailor Moon. Only subtitled and not plot-hacked to death. (What plot there is -- there's a lot of anime out there that is kind of vague on plot, but big on explosions, violence, and fan service (aka gratuitious nudity or semi-nudity or tight clothes, etc.). And then there's Neon Genisis Evangelion, which is Illuminated and has a really cool opening themesong thing.) Dirty Pair is one of the "plot? what plot? who needs a plot?" sort, often, but is still really really cool. (Kei and Yuri, special ops with Jinx.) Dominion Tank Police is much much fun, and only gets a little plot-weird towards the end. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 18:50:17 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Forces (Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions) At 3:28 PM +0000 12/16/97, Nathaniel Eliot wrote: >> I was going to post a self-righteous claim that I, at least, would >> never do such a thing, until I realised that I had on a number of >> occasions. Interestingly, I've also penalised Corporeal Forces for >> some of my characters, but never have I penalised Celestial Forces. >> Why is this, I wonder? And the answer is, because their resonance >> depends on it. > >Oh, fine. Now they tell me... > >(I'm playing a Kyriotate of War with 2 Celestial Forces. Lets just >say finding new hosts is a pain...) (Actually, since she doesn't *need* a host to function (the vessel that the Kyrios of War get), I thought it was a rather cool concept. And she can manage such misleading things if she wants. Of course, she wants to be the Illuminati Spy Network all on her lonesome, so there are some difficulties here... O;> ) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 18:35:39 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Songs (Other Vessel Questions) At 5:34 PM +0000 12/16/97, Kevin Walsh wrote: >> > Interesting... I almost buy Songs as an afterthought. Skills >> > are _much_ more reliable (they are based on attributes, not forces) >> > and usually less noisy. I almost always take at least two songs >> > though (Healing is a good 'un!) >> >> Two words: Numinous Corpus, Baby. >> >Good old Song of Acid, eh? And Tail, and Wings, and Spurs. And Tongue for >those people with 5 Corporeal Forces. [...] Claws. Claws are very good. "That's a knife, yes. These aren't." >In terms of skill replacement, I don't think anything beats the Corporeal >Song of Tongues. Why bother picking up several different languages when >you have that? Because sometimes it's nice to be able to pretend that you can't understand/speak a language, instead of having every word out of your mouth be in the Universal Translation mode? But I am starting to go for skill-high, but a few Songs known at very high (4-6) levels, and 1-3 Songs known at low levels, for future improvement. Skills are quiet, after all... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 19:21:12 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> capturing an angel At 9:28 AM +0100 12/16/97, d.ranzato@bpa.vnu.com wrote: >[Angel caught and] was chained to a wall. Now is my problem, >how I can keep him imprisoned. I mean, when he wakes up, he can just "go >celestial" and escape. If you can find some way to keep him Essence-drained, he's stuck. If you invoke various Relics, he can be stuck (say, something that inflicts the Discord: Bound/6). [There are some of these in Relics, hopefully -- also, Will Shackles, which make the wearer do things like say "Yes, Master" a lot...] If you have a human hostage, he can be kept pretty stuck. If you keep him unconscious, he's stuck, but that's no fun. At the GM's evil option, certain drugs (LSD?) may thwart a celestial's ability to go celestial. Some may even leave him groggy but functional otherwise. The Celestial Song of Charm can lower the angel's will a lot, making it likely that he'll be stuck for a while. You can park a Corp1, Eth2, Cel6 demon (with Fighting/6, natch) in the cell with him and explain to him about how much it hurts to have one's Forces stripped away. If you can get a Lilim around, he might be Geasable to be stuck. If somebody has Dark Desire, he might really *enjoy* being in those chains. If someone has Rule of Law (a Game attunement, p. 25 of Heaven & Hell, works like Humanity, only it's imposable on others!), then he's stuck. As has been noted, the Celestial Song of Charm and an Impudite make a nice combination, and the angel is generally being friendly to the Taker, too. Howzat? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #523 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.