From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Dec 18 21:58:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA24043 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 21:58:46 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id VAA03335 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 21:49:32 -0600 Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 21:49:32 -0600 Message-Id: <199712190349.VAA03335@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #526 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, December 18 1997 Volume 01 : Number 526 In this digest: Re: IN> Silly little rules rape Re: IN> A Movie Trailer IN> Malakim & Lilim Re: DVPBEM Fluff (Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions) Re: Funky Vessels (Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions) Re: IN> Non-Canon alternate Body Hits Re: IN> Sex, Lies & Balseraphs Re: Funky Vessels (Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions) Re: Funky Vessels (Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions) Re: Malkakim & Evil (Re: IN> capturing an angel) Re: Funky Vessels (Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions) IN> new Vapulan gadget Re: IN> Merry Christmas IN> Re: Lilim and Trade IN> The Seraphic Council and James Bond IN> Re: Trade and Lilim Re: IN> Is it as easy as it seems to make Servitor of Fire Re: IN> New Batch of History Stuff IN> Re:Angelic Players' Guide Re: IN> Merry Christmas (Also: vampires) RE: IN> Unorthodox enemies Re: IN> The Seraphic Council and James Bond Re: Funky Vessels (Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions) Re: IN> Silly little rules rape Re: IN> Malakim & Lilim Re: IN> Re: Lilim and Trade Re: IN> Silly little rules rape ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 09:51:40 -0500 From: "Jesse]" Subject: Re: IN> Silly little rules rape >> > On a tangentially related issue, has anyone else noticed the >> > similarity between the Malakite and Lilite resonances? >> >> Yes, it was discussed on the list a few months back. Not only do >> they have similar schticks -- for oaths or geases -- as well as >> corresponding in rank-number, they "correspond" by failing to have >> true opposite numbers. > >One more bit of correspondance - both are originally the creation of >a single superior. The Malakim are from Uriel, the Lilim are from >Lilith. I do not think that is right. Wasn't David an Archangel when he and Uriel became Malakim? Malakim are not limted to just Uriel. - -Jesse I ain't got no shame, But I got my pride, I am just trying to get along, On the upper, upper, upper, West Side! PDQ Bach, "Classical Rap" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 15:29:31 -0000 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: Re: IN> A Movie Trailer Great stuff, Mark ;-) Or as Miss Moneypenny might say: "You're a cunning linguist, James." Hmm.. James Bond in IN. I think... would have to be a Malakite of Eli in service to Jean, where M is Jean in a female vessel. jo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 10:58:05 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Malakim & Lilim >>>Well, it says he was the first of the Malakim, and the one that made them pure (Marches, pg 5). That is at least a strong implication for his being the first one to make others.<<< Check out who wrote that section. Uriel did not MAKE the Malakim. He did make them incorruptible -- when he became a Malakite, his Word encompassed all the other angels who also became Malakim -- but he is not responsible for their creation. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 10:01:59 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: DVPBEM Fluff (Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions) > > >Can I take it that the positions have been filled? > No, tenatively speaking there's two openings left; right now, the characters submitted are split evenly between Preservers and Orphans/Outcast/Renegades, so some people at least will be asked to submit a new character. Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | "It's Christmas in Heaven, http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | there's great shows on TV; c/o White Lightning Productions | the Sound of Music twice an hour http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | and Jaws I, II and III." Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- A Nybbas Christmas http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 10:56:41 EST From: MarkDEddy Subject: Re: Funky Vessels (Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions) In a message dated 12/18/97 5:56:02 AM, hjalkar@RedBrick.DCU.IE writes: >(Archbeth Sez:) >> At 2:29 PM +0000 12/16/97, Hart, Joanna wrote: > >>>Servitors of Andrealphus > >>>probably have complete control over certain bits of anatomy -- and > >>>may have extra muscle-groups for more, ah, precise control! > >> > >> > >>Ditto for servitors of Beleth... > > > >*They* have *teeth*. In odd places. > > >Shouldn't that cost them character points? I can see it now, Numinous >Corpus: Vagina Dentata. The males just need NC:Acid (with the modification of *where* the acid is coming from (or is that cumming from?)... Mark (Just adding to an already sick thread...) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 10:42:00 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> Non-Canon alternate Body Hits >> >Or you could have one person in the team with Ethereal or Celestial >> >Entropy who will laugh his/her head off as (s)he blasts the imbecile who >> >thought it was a useful idea to have 3 non-Corporeal Forces. >> >> Well, the one *I* was thinking of was Duke Hamet, from the Feast of >> Blades adventure in the GM Pack. No starting-level character *there*. >> And then there was the fight we had with Huzzriel -- we took off about >> 30-40 hits, between the Ofanite with Generator (and a van), and >> the Kyriotate of Jean with NC: Acid and a habit of possessing >> people's clothes... And Huzzie had some 40-50 hits left by the >> time we fled the scene because the mundane cops were showing up. >> >> With 9-Forcers or so, yeah, there are trickier ways around things. >> With 12+ Forcers? Owch. Owch. Owch. > > I've been pondering my alternate (non-canon, of >course) Body Hits rule and I've got some numbers now. >Body Hits=2*CorpForces*Level for celestials. This would >_greatly_ contract the range of Body Hits, yet still >give celestials a clear advantage. (Mortals get >Toughness+1 instead of Level.) > > Level1 Level2 Level3 Level4 Level5 Level6 > Tough0 Tough1 Tough2 Tough3 >CF1 2 4 6 8 10 12 >CF2 (4) (8) 12 16 20 24 >CF3 6 12 (18) 24* 30 36 >CF4 8 16 24 32 40 48 >CF5 10 20 30 40* 50 60 >CF6 12 24 36 48 60 72* > > The problem I ran across is that mortals get >seriously hosed by this. A Str/4 CF/2 mortal under >the current rules gets 8 hits while under this plan >they only get 4. Ah, but I said to myself (the >person who listens more often =) ) why not let >Soldiers get a free level of Toughness? It makes >sense since we've given them other advantages. >Regular mortals can still drop like flies, but >Soldiers are supposed to be a bit tougher (especially >PCs!) > By the above chart, I figure the average >angel would have CF/3 and Level3... 18 Body Hits. >Enough to take 5 average attacks (without dodging) >and still keep going. In an 'average' fistfight, >this would be about 18 attacks. A semi-resilient >mortal (CF/2 Tough/0) has 4 hits and can take 1 attack >or 4 punches before falling. An average soldier >(CF/2 Tough/1) would have 8 Body Hits. > The new high end is much contracted for >celestials (still pretty impressive!) I don't >consider 72 too high since anyone that has >maximum CorpForces and a Vessel/6 is probably >one tough dude! The new maximum for a normal >human (CF/3 Tough/3) 24. The new max for a >soldier (CF/5 Tough/3) is 40. > > Justifications: By using both CorpForces >and Strength, it becomes very easy to make uber- >characters since the stats are multiplied together >for Body Hits and Strength comes from CorpForces! >By using CorpForces straight, I think it models >total body resilience better and avoids the >Str*CorpForces thing. Vessel levels become more >valuable in comparison with the current system. > > Comments welcome! (Although on this list, >I don't think I could _stop_ people from commenting!) Hm. My only dig with this is the low actual number of hits. The above system assumes that an un-Dodged punch (Power = -3) does 1 point of damage. Since that Power = -3 is one of my pet peeves with the system, I bump up that Power to 0- which assumed that an average un-Dodged punch will do 3 points of damage. I've been considering recalculating hit points across the board for the DVPBEM games, and your non-geometric system seems to be the way to go, but for my system the numbers are too low. Also, I disagree with normal humans becoming 'popcorn shrimp' in comparison to Angels or even Soldiers. I'd assume that all Humans come with a level of Toughness, but the possibility could exist for that level to be lost. (How - -that- happens in game mechanics I don't know, but serious wounds, traumatic experiences, drug addiction, debilitating illness, all of those could reduce a person's resilience easily.) Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | "It's Christmas in Heaven, http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | there's great shows on TV; c/o White Lightning Productions | the Sound of Music twice an hour http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | and Jaws I, II and III." Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- A Nybbas Christmas http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 16:50:05 -0000 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: Re: IN> Sex, Lies & Balseraphs John Karakash wrote: > Oooooh, an interesting thought just occured to >me. What if, really, really, really deep down there >was a Balseraph that DID want to Redeem? He makes up >this 'lie' on the spur of the moment to escape some >hideous demise at the hands of an angel. This could >make for some _really_ interesting situations (especially >if the Bal was talking to a Seraph). I really like this as an idea!! I figure these Balseraph types are so used to self-deception on a regular basis that its quite likely that they often don't know how they really feel about any given topic. I'm not sure about the redemption angle per se but I can imagine one saying to a seraph 'Of course I want to know the truth!' and hitting some hitherto unknown deep button inside itself... I quite like the idea, as a plot seed, of having a bunch of angelic PCs sent off to investigate such a balseraph (probably at Yves' behest) to see whether there really was any grain of truth in its unlikely sounding excuses. (Of course, they can run into a demonic team of the Game who want to 'rescue it from its delusions' also). Difficult job to find out how someone really feels when they themself don't know. They'd have to set little tests for it or something without telling it in advance ;-) Pity it if it does redeem though, you'll just have created the world's most gormless seraph ;) jo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 12:06:01 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas Davidson Subject: Re: Funky Vessels (Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions) On Thu, 18 Dec 1997, Kevin Walsh wrote: > > At 2:29 PM +0000 12/16/97, Hart, Joanna wrote: > > >>Servitors of Andrealphus > > >>probably have complete control over certain bits of anatomy -- and > > >>may have extra muscle-groups for more, ah, precise control! > > > > > > > > >Ditto for servitors of Beleth... > > > > *They* have *teeth*. In odd places. > > > > > Shouldn't that cost them character points? I can see it now, Numinous > Corpus: Vagina Dentata. > > Ah! I've been scarred for life! Thomas Davidson tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us MUSIC: Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, Rush, Jimi Hendrix GAMES: Champions (old and new), In Nomine, Nephilim TV: The X-Files, the Simpsons, Superman, The Tick, the Animaniacs OTHER: Religion, Philosophy, mysticism, the runes, the Tarot, writing. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 12:12:45 -0500 From: KimFoster Subject: Re: Funky Vessels (Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions) At 10:56 AM 12/18/97 EST, you wrote: > >In a message dated 12/18/97 5:56:02 AM, hjalkar@RedBrick.DCU.IE writes: >>(Archbeth Sez:) >>> At 2:29 PM +0000 12/16/97, Hart, Joanna wrote: >> >>>Servitors of Andrealphus >> >>>probably have complete control over certain bits of anatomy -- and >> >>>may have extra muscle-groups for more, ah, precise control! >> >> >> >> >> >>Ditto for servitors of Beleth... >> > >> >*They* have *teeth*. In odd places. >> >> >>Shouldn't that cost them character points? I can see it now, Numinous >>Corpus: Vagina Dentata. > Could it just be a variant on NC:Claws? (Just the thing for the Calabim of Lust.... or Balseraph considering they could make you enjoy it.....hmmm) Does anyone have the original post for this? I never received it. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 12:26:37 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas Davidson Subject: Re: Malkakim & Evil (Re: IN> capturing an angel) On Thu, 18 Dec 1997, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > > As soon as possible, pick up the APG, which has a discussion about > > Malakim and evil and stuff... > > I heartily second that! The APG is chock full of stuff > on all the choirs and other things. Despite the name, it's > probably more useful for GMs than players (though players won't > lose out by getting it!) > I want it. It's out? Has anybody seen it on the shelves? Does anyone other than ArchBeth have a copy? Why hasn't anyone said anything? > > On APG49, "A *temporary* alliance that offers an opportunity to > > erase greater evil is acceptable." (Just don't hang around afters, > > if you're a demon.) "If a Malakite is forced to choose *which* of > > 2 evils will escape, he earns no dissonance for choosing the lesser!" > > Aaaaaaah! Page references! I want my copy! Aaaaah! O;) > I want my APG! Aaaaaah! :-) Thomas Davidson tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us MUSIC: Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, Rush, Jimi Hendrix GAMES: Champions (old and new), In Nomine, Nephilim TV: The X-Files, the Simpsons, Superman, The Tick, the Animaniacs OTHER: Religion, Philosophy, mysticism, the runes, the Tarot, writing. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 12:51:41 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: Funky Vessels (Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions) > > Shouldn't that cost them character points? I can see it now, Numinous > > Corpus: Vagina Dentata. > > > > > > Ah! I've been scarred for life! > Dammit, you stole MY BIT! GIVE ME MY DUE! :P............o - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 12:59:38 -0500 From: bruce dykes Subject: IN> new Vapulan gadget Presenting: the Essence-sink Trigger The cherub slowly regains consciousness in a room that looks oddly like a prison cell. "Good morning, finally returning to us, I see," came a voice from an unseen intercom. Immediately the cherub invoked his resonance to locate the diplomat's son he was supposed to protect. A hundred feet to his left and about fifteen feet below. "Not to worry, he's quite safe for the moment. But he will be in danger soon. You see that green light in the ceiling? Good. in an hour, that light will be completely out, unless you drop a bit of Essence into it. "Why would you want to do that? Well, when that light goes out, a fair sized hunk of plastique, not coincedantally located in the young lad's cell, goes boom." In a room with a couple of video monitors, a loudspeaker and a microphone, three demons watch the angel's furious outburst with smiles on their faces. "This is funny," said the demon sitting at the mike. "Not hilarious, not yet. Are you sure this thing is going to work?" He directed this last at a demon sitting against the back wall just sitting and smiling to himself. "Even if it malfunctions, it'll malfunction in such a way ss to detonate the explosive. Even I can appreciate the irony in having that bastard dumping Essence into the trigger, only to have it go off and kill the kid anyway." The third demon was busy on a celphone. "Are you watching this? Fucking magnificent! If he can keep this up until we kill the kid, we'll want to save this for World's Stupidest Bodyguards 4...I don't know, I think we'll be able to grab at least two or three others before they cop on, so we can use those for the earlier episodes, no use in playing out all the variations with the first go round...yep, the promos should come out of editing tomorrow afternoon...ciao!" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The Essence-sink Trigger is the creation of Vapula's Angel of Triggers. It can be set to anywhere from 3 essence/hour to 2 essence/day. It's a deadman trigger, which means that unless the required amount of essence is invested in the trigger, it activates whatever device it's attached to, be it a poison gas canister, or plastic explosives, or what have you... I created it as a plot device, not something to be accquired by PCs, so I'll forgo any point costs, etc... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 06:02:40 +1100 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> Merry Christmas > > David Skogsberg wrote: > > > > > So I'm a little early in my well-wishing. Sue me. I'm going to Australia > > > come Friday. > > > > You'll be sorry!!! It's something like 35 degrees Celcius here at the > > moment (in Farenheit, that's roughly 'way too hot'), and it's not a pleasant > > heat. The system shock could kill you... > > Hey, at least it'll beat -5 deg Celsius that it is here... Stop it, I'm drooling. > Anyway, I know what to do. > > Drink lots of water. Duh. I hate to say it, but you're in for a nasty shock... Drinking lots of water will stop you from _dying_ in this heat, but will do bugger-all else... ObIN: So how long do you think a celestial could last in the middle of a desert in summer? - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia Your God drinks peach nectar Eats boiled fruit, can't fart out loud My God arm wrestled Khruschev Eats meat, farts with pride DOUG ANTHONY ALLSTARS, "Commies For Christ" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 16:02:52 EST From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: IN> Re: Lilim and Trade : >> Marc hates Lilim because they are fundamentally incompatible with the : divine : >> word of Trade. IMC, capital-T Trade happens when two (or more) people : come : >> to an agreement without constraint or coercion. Since the core of the : Lilim : >> resonance is the coercive power of the geas, Marc sees this as a : perversion : >> of his word and therefore refuses to employ the Lilim. : : OK, I'm pretty much convinced, Neel ;-) (I like Marc) I think the problem : with the geas is mainly that the actual form the geas will take isn't : defined when it is created, which puts the other party into the position of : being forced to buy a pig in a poke. I think Marc might take Lilim but would : force dissonance on them if they didn't inform a victim of precisely what : the geas would be used for when it was created, and give them the choice of : whether to take the deal or not. Trade is involved when someone says 'You do : this for me and I will do that for you', NOT 'I'll do that for you and.. : I'll let you know at some unspecified time in the future what you can do for : me'... ...'regardless of whether or not you want me to do this.' Part of the problem is that there are often cases when there isn't any way for the victim to refuse the offer. If I have a Need/6 [*] to have my apartment cleaned, and J. Random Lilim sneaks into my apartment when I'm at work and tidies the place up, then I owe a Geas/6 regardless of whether or not I would have accepted the deal if I had a chance to refuse. Ooh, now I have this image of a Mafia Lilim. "I am here to make an offer you cannot refuse..." [*] Isn't the difficulty based on how hard it is for the victim to accomplish? :) - ---- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 21:26:47 GMT From: maya@tcp.co.uk (GR Cogman) Subject: IN> The Seraphic Council and James Bond THE SERAPHIC COUNCIL AND JAMES BOND - ----------------------------------- Agenda : Meeting of the Seraphim Council to discuss Authorship of the new James Bond movie and Themes to be Inspired thereby. Marc to chair. Scene : All the usual Superiors, sitting around a table. Marc : (rising) Thank you all very much for coming. It's been decided that since we've managed to take the script editors for the new Bond movie under our wings, so to speak (pauses for brief chuckle that doesn't come) we should discuss what themes we wish to promote in the presentation. Perhaps we should go round the table. David... oh, I'm sorry, you don't want to go first. Michael, then. Michael : (uses spare knife to mark his place in the script he's reading) I've marked the obvious tactical errors. We can go through them later. And can we make M more of a retired army type? Show some muscle. Novalis : Actually, I wanted to bring that up. I know that it's very empowering, but don't you think that if we just make her a man in drag, that's rather missing the point? Michael : Sex has nothing to do with it. Eli : (looking up from his script) I'm working on it! Michael : I want her to show some drive. Some guts. I want the viewer to be able to look at her and say, yes, _that_ is a person who could have kicked her previous second-in-command out of the Service with her bare hands when he turned traitor... Laurence, Dominic, David : (in unison) What? Laurence : I thought we'd decided the villain was that drugs baron. David : No, no, it's the scientist with the subliminal control thing. Dominic : You are both in error. It was the consortium of ex-Nazi officers collaborating with the Yakuza. Marc : (coughs) Yes, well, we need to discuss that a bit. Eli : (scribbling) Okay, so it's Yakuza drugs barons collaborating with ex-Nazi officers, with the ex-second-in-command as their enforcer, and using a scientist who's developed subliminal control but is being controlled through threats to his beautiful daughter... (A general pause, and looks of stunned admiration.) Marc : (after a moment) Right. Which brings us to the next point. The love interest. Laurence : (wistfully) He _did_ get married once before. Novalis : Well, we could always imply a lasting relationship. David : She has to be self-sufficient, of course. Dominic : Uphold justice. Blandine : Inspire hope. Janus : Carry dynamite. Jean : (not looking up from his writing) Not attempt scientific implausibilities. Marc : Ah, well, um, Jean, there's something I have to mention here. We've had to cut that speech by Q. Jean : (looking up) You _what_? Marc : (waves a hand vaguely) It was running a bit long. We left the gadgets in, though. Jean : (flipping ahead through the script) It would be too much to hope that you left the narration sections on irresponsible use of radiation... (his face falls as he reaches that part) Yes, it would. Novalis : (encouragingly) We're keeping the ecology angle, though. The villains are trying to blast the local environment, you see. Jordi : (throbs in agreement, as only a pulsing cloud of eyes can) Marc : (eyeing the notes he has been taking) The heroine needs to have some flaws. Laurence : Nonsense. She will be a shining example of honour. Marc : Oh, well, that'll do nicely. Novalis : (butting in quickly) So how do they meet? Janus : She's blowing something up. Or he is. Or they both are. Or perhaps she's an incognito cat-burglar and he's after the same thing. Dominic : Certainly not. She abides by the inner voice of justice. Eli : Okay, okay, so she's stealing something from the bad guys to find out why they're persecuting her father, he trips over her, we have much cuteness... David : (stonily) Cuteness. Eli : ... punctuated by martial arts and self-defence as they fight their way out. Michael : I want to see the tactics script for that. Marc : I had Blandine do a survey of mortal dreams, actually, showing the sort of thing that people were dreaming about Bond doing... Blandine : (silently reaches down beside her chair and begins piling stacks of paper from there up on the table. She reaches three feet high before Marc cracks) Marc : ... which I'll put my Market researchers to analysing. Blandine : And this is only the sex stuff. Dominic : (triple-ripple-blinks) Orgies and corruption. Eli : Hey, it's just one girl. Or there's another, but she's the bad girl, and we kill her, which shows justice in action. Right? Gabriel : Is she cruel? Eli : Bags of cruelty. It oozes out of her ears. Gabriel : She must burn. Eli : I'm working on it, I'm working on it. Gabriel : And Bond must prophesy. (scribbles on her copy of the script) Marc : Er, Gabriel .. Bond doesn't prophesy. Gabriel : (clutching script to her protectively) He does _now_. Eli : (snapping his fingers) Brilliant! It's the drugs angle. We work in some really exotic flashbacks - Jean, we'll need some help there - and then pre-images, warp it, because, um... Laurence : (getting caught up despite himself) He's in the lair of the villains. They're interrogating him? Michael : Or he fell into their stores of the raw drug. No, that's sloppy work. Janus : He blew it all up and got caught in the fumes! Eli : Subsidiary hideout, then. Okay, so he gets pulled out by the girl, or by the bad girl, or by the sidekick? Marc : We may have a few too many sidekicks, my fellow Archangels. One, yes, two, perhaps, thirteen, not really. (He looks around the group. There's a long silence.) But we can discuss that later. Novalis : (to Eli) By the bad girl? A glimmer of redemption, a sign that she might have turned away from her evil. Michael : Then she does something treacherous and he shoots her. Dominic : (nods approvingly) Jean : And the villains are doing nothing all the way through this? Eli : Um. Oh. Right! They grab the heroine. She's a hostage. We see some really neat shots of her in (glances at Laurence and hastily rethinks sentence) captivity and inspiring heroic thoughts from the audience and all that sort of thing. Laurence : And Bond hastens to her rescue. David : With friends. Marc : (eyeing script) We haven't got any friends. David : So he gets some friends. Janus : A motorcycle gang. He beats their leader in a friendly contest earlier, we have a motorcycle chase... Eli : (scribbling) Have to have a speed chase, oh yes. Janus : ... and now they come through for him. They charge the villain's base! Michael : They approach it with some tactical sense. You mean. Don't you. Marc : Where is the base, anyhow? Dominic : A disused courthouse. Jean : A laboratory. Gabriel : A volcano. Novalis : Somewhere near a forest, unless we're planning to blow up too much of it. Michael : With good troops. David : And underground passages. Eli : (holding up both hands for a pause) Okay, okay, so, um, it's a laboratory set above a dead volcano which you reach by going through a forest and which has an underground passage to the disused courthouse in the local town. And plenty of guards. And the volcano erupts at the end. (Various nods around the table.) Eli : And Bond and the girl sail off into the sunset on hang-gliders. Novalis : Together? Laurence : Of course. Marc : Well, it sounds as if we have a movie here, people, once we've ironed out a few minor details. Mm... what do you think, Yves? Yves : (looking up over spectacles from novel in his lap) Oh, I'm just reading the book. - --- (or, why Shal-Mari still has the Bond concession...) - --- Maya, Elohim of Eli in service to Blandine maya@tcp.co.uk - -- "There are those who say that wizards are subject to temptations and addictions beyond the understanding of ordinary men: the addiction to shape-changing, or to meditation under the influence of certain herbs and conditions of the stars; the obsession with knowledge, and the development of power. Yet this is not so. Temptation is temptation, obsession is obsession, and choice is choice." - Isar Chelladan, Precepts of Wizardry. -- "Dog Wizard", Barbara Hambly. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 16:32:00 EST From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: IN> Re: Trade and Lilim : Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 08:47:33 -0500 (EST) : From: Emily Dresner : Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #523 : : > Oddly, it's Dominic, and to a lesser extent Michael, who end up with the : > Bright Lilim IMC. But an explanation would be a too-long digression. : : No it wouldn't. I'd like to hear your rationale for Dominic. I know the : rationale for Michael. Well, I guess it's time to visit Dominic's world. :) In an ideal world, Dominic would be unneeded, because everyone would know good without having to know evil. But the Fall and the Tempation of Eve have made that impossible, so the next best thing would be for everyone to try to do their best to be good all the time of their own accord. Naturally, some of the time they would fail, since only God is perfect. But since they would possess judgement, they would be able to recognize their failures and assess an appropriate penance. Unfortunately, IRL this doesn't work because there are plenty of people who refuse to apologize for their crimes. The problem, as Dominic sees it, is that the people most likely to lapse are precisely the ones least likely to be able to perform the appropriate penance. After all, if they had the strength of character to carry out the penance, then they probably wouldn't have made their mistakes in the first place. This is where the Bright Lilim come in. With their ability to detect Needs, they can detect true contrition, and with their ability to lay Geases, they can make sure that the repentant will be able to complete their penances. (Game mechanics: The Bright Lilim of Judgement can neutralize dissonance by laying a Geas/4 for each point neutralized, if and only if the other is truly repentant. Plus, they get to talk it over with Dominic when he shows up for his weekly visit.) Clearly, the ways of the Lord are both mysterious and providential; who could have forseen that the rebellion of Lilith would lead to the creation of the perfect confessors? Now, it's your turn to explain why Lilim want to be like Mike. :) (I want to see if your reason is the same as mine.) - ---- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 13:03:10 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> Is it as easy as it seems to make Servitor of Fire >Well, the point here is, a Servitor of Gabriel can't -do- anything else, >really, under these conditions. They can't, for example, go off and >investigate strange thefts in a certain district, or cattle mutilations in >the countryside, or the strange success of a series of local commercials. >They are so limited by their Dissonance requirements that they are mentally >handicapped. > I disagree. It's not that they can't do anything before they punish the cruel, it's just that they have to punish their target within Celestial Forces days. That gives the Fire angels time to do other stuff just so long as they take care of their job too. Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 19:10:30 -0600 From: John L Veazey Subject: Re: IN> New Batch of History Stuff Wohoo! I was wrong. Sorry 'bout that. Guess I got my facts screwed into the wrong areas of the vast wasteland of my mind. I stand corrected. Vz - -- John L Veazey (Vz) | Warning: In case of accidental overdose, veazey@ebicom.net | seek professional assistance or contact jlv2@ra.msstate.edu | Poison Control Center Immediately. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 18:15:14 EST From: MarkDEddy Subject: IN> Re:Angelic Players' Guide In a message dated 12/18/97 2:42:19 PM, tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us writes: <> Yes, the APG is out. I've had my copy for just under a week now. It went from "at the publishers" to "released" on the Website about two weeks ago. WotC's Game Center ordered it for me. I was waiting for the official "it's out" email from Beth or John Karakesh (sp?) or David Edelstein before I said anything. I like it. I like it alot. Especially the choir/choir interaction sections. Mark(Just a teaser, folks, not a review.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 18:25:43 EST From: Gruzzle Subject: Re: IN> Merry Christmas (Also: vampires) I hate to seem rude on my first post to the list, but can we puh-lease knock off all of the Merry Christmas hooplah which has nothing to do with In Nomine? As if I don't get enough useless mail anyways.... - -Puknar (just call me Scrooge) P.S. In order not to come off as a hypocrite (a rude one, at that), I'll add a little something that has to do with In Nomine.... I've been reading the list for about a week now, and I've noticed a bit of fuss about the strength of vampires and what-not. Folks, this is the In Nomine world, and in this world, vampires are not the suped-up power-freaks they appear to be in V:TM. Here, they are nothing but the result of a failed mummy (thus a bit more disadvantaged), yet still quite a bit more powerful than the average joe-schmoe. Now, for those who, deep down in their hearts, feel that this is a serious injustice to those blood-sucking leeches (for whatever reason, whether they have convinced themselves into beleiving that *they* are a vampire or if they may have decided to devote their lives to the fascination of vampires, etc.), I offer one simple proposal (simplicity is the key): Change the name from "vampire" to "ghoul" or some other undead which you, in your heart, can live with being somewhat more disabled than a mummy. Next, create a "real" vampire in all of its unbalanced power as you see fit and use it happily in your campaign setting. I, myself have switched the names of "mummy" and "zombie" in my campaign simply because I picture zombies as being a helluva lot cooler than any mummy. It's no big deal. 'Nuff said. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 16:49:38 -0500 From: Jack of Spades Subject: RE: IN> Unorthodox enemies On Wednesday, December 17, 1997 21:58, Neel Krishnaswami [SMTP:neelk@MIT.EDU] wrote: > If there's enough demand, I'll do a similar list > for the Demon Princes. Put me on the list of demand. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 18:13:38 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> The Seraphic Council and James Bond >THE SERAPHIC COUNCIL AND JAMES BOND >----------------------------------- > ("I'm sorry, you have reached the home of Kris Overstreet, but he's too busy screwing his ass back on with a Phillips-head screwdriver after having laughed it off reading a certain email. Please leave your message at the sound of the guffaw and he'll get back to you soon.") Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | "It's Christmas in Heaven, http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | there's great shows on TV; c/o White Lightning Productions | the Sound of Music twice an hour http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | and Jaws I, II and III." Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- A Nybbas Christmas http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 19:31:31 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: Funky Vessels (Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions) > >Shouldn't that cost them character points? I can see it now, Numinous > >Corpus: Vagina Dentata. > > The males just need NC:Acid (with the modification of *where* the > acid is coming from (or is that cumming from?)... OTOH, NC:Tounge could be fun... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "Now all I need is that Rite of Eli's..." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 19:31:31 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Silly little rules rape > I do not think that is right. Wasn't David an Archangel when he and > Uriel became Malakim? Malakim are not limted to just Uriel. I've already been corrected on this. However, I don't think David was an AA before Uriel. Given the age of the War, it would make sense that Uriel was older than dirt, and David a little less so (probably about the same age...;-) But it's only my opinion anyway. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 19:31:31 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Malakim & Lilim > > Well, it says he was the first of the Malakim, and the one that made > > them pure (Marches, pg 5). That is at least a strong implication for > > his being the first one to make others. > > I guess a better way of putting it is that Uriel was the first > _Archangel_ to create Malakim. He, himself, was created by God. I thought he became a Malakim somewhere down the line - that has been the implication in more than one bit I have read. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 19:31:31 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Lilim and Trade > :Trade is involved when someone says 'You do this for me and I > :will do that for you', NOT 'I'll do that for you and.. I'll let > :you know at some unspecified time in the future what you can do > :for me'... > > ...'regardless of whether or not you want me to do this.' > > Part of the problem is that there are often cases when there isn't > any way for the victim to refuse the offer. If I have a Need/6 [*] > to have my apartment cleaned, and J. Random Lilim sneaks into my > apartment when I'm at work and tidies the place up, then I owe a > Geas/6 regardless of whether or not I would have accepted the deal > if I had a chance to refuse. Then maybe Marc will allow Lilim only if they don't use their ability without consent of the other party. IE: "Okay, I can tell you need your room cleaned. If I do this for you, will you do me a favor in the future?" I'd say they get a bonus equal to Ethereal forces to call in any Geas which was agreed to in writing. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 21:38:10 -0600 From: Corey Subject: Re: IN> Silly little rules rape At 07:31 PM 12/18/97 +0000, you wrote: >> I do not think that is right. Wasn't David an Archangel when he and >> Uriel became Malakim? Malakim are not limted to just Uriel. > >I've already been corrected on this. However, I don't think David >was an AA before Uriel. Given the age of the War, it would make >sense that Uriel was older than dirt, and David a little less so >(probably about the same age...;-) > According to the APG, David and Uriel were created shortly after Yves, Michael and Lucifer. Also created then were Baal, Eli, and Gabriel. I'm assuming they were sorta created as Archangels, since the next paragraph starts with the Seven of them( Not includng Yves) "helped God create the universe, which some call the symphony."(APG 6). Yves watched and told God what was going on. Corey - --"I'll try "Do or do not. There is nor try." "Knock that shit off. We gotta bus ta catch. Jedi Bitch." Holdon, Jay, and Silent Bob from "Chasing Amy" ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #526 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.