From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Dec 28 05:31:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA23182 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 1997 05:31:07 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id FAA25260 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 28 Dec 1997 05:23:52 -0600 Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 05:23:52 -0600 Message-Id: <199712281123.FAA25260@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #534 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, December 28 1997 Volume 01 : Number 534 In this digest: IN> The Marches...or...a Campaign Setting (Parts 1-2) IN> Christian Mods for In Nomine IN> Song of Stability Re: IN> It finally happened, damnit... IN> Christian In Nomine Re: IN> Christian In Nomine Re: IN> Fwd: What 'he' finally did... Re: IN> Fwd: What 'he' finally did... Re: IN> A new and disturbing NPC encounter... Re: IN> The Marches...or...a Campaign Setting (Parts 1-2) Re: IN> Christian In Nomine Re: IN> A review and a quibble... Re: IN> Fwd: What 'he' finally did... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 21:00:26 -0700 (MST) From: Jason Corley Subject: IN> The Marches...or...a Campaign Setting (Parts 1-2) At one end of the Marches is Beleth's Tower, beyond it, more or less, is Hell. At the other end of the Marches is Blandine's Tower, beyond it, more or less, is Heaven. Far along the Marches live the deposed pagan gods and eerie servitor ethereal spirits. But right in the middle of it is Los Angeles. CITY OF ANGELS PART ONE: TOP MEN AND BOTTOM-FEEDERS The Angel of Los Angeles is a Kyriotate named Rodia. It prefers the young as vessels, and generally speaks through a female vessel (it likes the sound of the feminine voice better.) Rodia has a pronounced sense of humor and is a canny and slightly manic promoter of her Word. In Los Angeles lies the proverbial Last Chance of Western civilisation: even the civilisation is -named- 'Western'. Whenever things go wrong in the West, people go West, and in Los Angeles, you can't go West any more. That's the place where you have to make it, or disappear forever. The Demon of Los Angeles is a Habbalah named Daralef. He looks like a younger, thinner, more successful Ronald Reagan, or a wizened, stringy patriarch who speaks through a box in his throat. Daralef has less of a sense of humor now than he used to: now he is beginning to be more serious about some very serious evil to plant in LA. Rodia intended for the city to expand more into the realm of dreams, making it weirder but more liveable (if you can imagine that - Kyriotates -do- get some weird ideas): Daralef zoned everything for the corporeal world and thus brought minor Demons of LA Traffic and LA Pollution into Word-boundedness. Sample Attunements: RODIA Opportunity Knocks: In LA, anyone can make it. By spending a GM-specified amount of Essence over a GM-specified amount of time, the Celestial may cause one human to be handed a Golden Opportunity. A Golden Opportunity is the first step on their way to achieving their Destiny. They may be "discovered" by a movie producer, or get that promotion they need, or finally conceive the child they have always wanted, meet their true love in a stopped elevator, or what have you. Using this Attunement generates very little Symphonic noise, though it is detectable on the Ethereal plane, since the Golden Opportunity is actually a Dream construct made real. The more the angel "helps" the Golden Opportunity, the less Symphonic disturbance and the less Essence is costs. Also, this Attunement cannot be used to help someone achieve a destiny that the GM deems that they are close to achieving anyway. The Golden Opportunity is a first step, not a final step. Hidden Nook: Sometimes it seems like there isn't anything in LA but private, hidden crannies and highways between them. By spending 1 Essence, the Celestial can cause anyone (including themselves and other Celestials) to find the perfect place for a little peace and quiet in LA. It may be quite a drive, but there is always some spot you can just happen across that is perfect for you. This minor attunement costs only 4 character points and causes no Symphonic disturbance to speak of. DARALEF Cut Me Off, Will You?: This minor attunement allows the demon to drive anywhere in LA at any time as if there were no traffic without fear of being pulled over by any mortal police. They do this through cutting people off, swerving through cars, riding the median, speeding, making rude gestures and shouting, tailgating, flashing their lights and in general behaving badly. It costs 1 Essence to activate for a 24-hour period. This minor attunement costs 6 character points and only causes Symphonic disturbance on the freeways. The Casting Couch: Kronos and Daralef put this little nasty Attunement together after they heard about Rodia's "Golden Opportunity". This has the effect of making whatever the next opportunity, (non-Golden), available only at the most degrading price possible. If they meet the love of their life, it's while terribly drunk and both do things they will never forget and will always hold against each other. If they get the opportunity to address the city on live TV, they will be frozen with panic and turn their inspiring words of hopefulness and spirituality into a drooling stuttering "Hi mom." In all other ways, it acts like the angelic Attunement. BOTH The Golden People: LA is about image, and Celestials with this attunement can give off the image of perfection. By spending 1 Essence per day, they can appear with a perfect tan, the chic-est styles, the whitest smiles and trim, athletic bodies. If they do not spend this Essence, they may be recognized as who they are, of course, but they aren't -perfect-. This causes very little Symphonic disturbance: perfect bodies are not as rare in LA as they are elsewhere. TWO: LA AND THE MARCHES Here in LA the ancient religions make their last stand: here they try to return from the Far Marches, and here, they may disappear forever. The border between LA and the Marches is not easily defined and fluctuates continually. Blandine and Beleth both watch carefully to see which dreams cross over into reality and which real things slip finally forever into dreams through the City of Angels. They keep both Rodia and Daralef briefed on what they want to be Lost and what they want to be Found. Their desires might surprise you. Things To Be Lost: Blandine wants -bad- things to be lost, brought over into the Dreamworld where they can be dealt with directly and without danger to the corporeal Symphony. However, sometimes -good- things should be Lost, if they will be good weapons in the Dreamworld against Beleth's forces. EXAMPLE: The Zodiac killer was never caught: a team of angels caught up to him in Los Angeles and made sure that he lost his home, his car, and all his possessions, then that he wandered over into the Dreamlands. Blandine dealt with him directly there. You don't want to know. Beleth wants -good- things to be lost, for similar reasons. And similarly, really top-notch evil should be "promoted" to the Marches where they become her slav..er...lieutenants. Right. EXAMPLE: Betty Jo Makialeski, an Orange County resident, 90 years old, would have organized a civil rights group that would have opposed racism in the arch-conservative area. Except for the demons who nabbed her from her home, trussed her up and before Heaven could react, had dragged her into the Marches where she was nonchalantly tortured and driven insane before being dumped back on the streets of Compton where she starved to death because she couldn't remember what food was. Anything can become just a dream in LA, no matter how solid, and anything can become real in LA, no matter how ethereal. LA is where the Marches and the world meet, and keeping traffic moving in the "right" direction is a high priority of Blandine and Beleth...not to mention Heaven and Hell themselves! Here other Princes and Archangels can interfere in the Marches-war in the ways that they think it should be done...(Michael in particular is always trying to circumvent Blandine's authority since he just -knows- how Blandine should be fighting Beleth.) More later, including more LA Attunements and some adventure seeds. Jason if i am guilty then god is as well ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 00:19:58 -0600 (CST) From: rogue@ez-net.com Subject: IN> Christian Mods for In Nomine Hey hey, everybody. 'S been a while since I've posted, but I couldn't pass on making a few comments on this one. Please remember, everything I write is in my own humble opinion. I'm an awfully opinianted SOB, sometimes, though, so you'll have to forgive me. >The infamous post itself. Call it a story seed, if y'like... > >> The Role of Choirs >> ----------------------- >> Malakim are NEVER cruel! A vicious lie from the Balseraph. >> >> Kyriotates are not "discordians". And they can not posses a Human >> being with it's own free will. They can, however, "attach" >> themselves to humans and influence them (In Game Mechanics terms, >> it works out the same, but a distinction needs to be made for a >> Christian World View). Angels never posses anyone, but Demons can >> posses non-Christians who allow them to do so. And Demons can so >> influence a Christian that he may appear to be possessed. Ye Gods above, why don't we just give them fluffy tails and little signs saying "Make love, not war"????? it is shown time and again in the Bible that angels can very well be cruel... if we demasculate the Angels so that they are never cruel, the War is over. It's not possible to beat that ruthless a foe without some cruelty. >> When a demon is "destroyed", he is being sent there [The Pit] to >> wait with the Locust Demons for the eventual release and then >> judgement (cf. Rev. 18-20). Demons do not return to their "heart" >> in Hell, but go to The Pit. Strictly from a game balance point, that would tilt things very far to the divine side. If Angels can constantly be killed and reincorporate, but demons only get one shot at it, the War is not going to last long. >> The Role of Archangels >> ----------------------------- >> Archangels work as describe in the book. The differance being, >> they are HOLY! The section of the book that describes Archangels Again, lets just slap on the Disney (TM) smiles and cute fluffy tails. If you were to get rid of all the political maneuvering among the AAs, you'd destroy half the fun of the game! >> Archangels cal those under them, "Charges", not "Servants", as the Bull. I don't have a Bible handy, but I'm fairly certain that Angels are described as 'Servants' of God a few times. >> Balandine: He did not, nor will ever have, sexual relations with >> another Demon or Angel, or ANYONE. The reference to Beleth is a >> sick perversion of the real truth, which is the cause for >> Balandine's calling for the destruction of Beleth. No real >> problems to speak of...he's Freddy Cruger's HOLY twin. Just a general note- what is this guy's fixation on every Angel being male? >> David: No real problems to speak of, except an Archangel would never use slaves >> Marc: Marc DOES NOT USE SLAVES!! A vicious lie!! The treasures >> of heaven are GOOD WORKS and the SAINTS themselves! Marc is the Again, bull. In more than one location in the Bible (again, I don't have one handy so I can't quote chapter and verse) taking booty and slaves from a sacked city is mentioned as a reward to God's loyal people. As long as we're going to use the Bible as law, pal, let's at least use all of it- not just the parts that look good. >> Eli: The lies the Balseraph spoke against Eli are because of whom >> Eli really is! Jesus. Jesus Christ is the Creator. Eli is >> ("Yahweh")", which theologins agree is the pre-incarnate Christ. Note: Christian theologians, maybe. Not all of them. >> Gabrial: Islam is listed by the Balseraph as a creation of Yves >> with help from Gabrial. They both would have a COW!! Not only is >> it not true, but they are both Hostile towards Malphas, Demon >> Prince of Factions for coming up with the idea and deceiving >> Mohammed. If only a disciple of Christ could have gotten to >> Mohammed in time, the schism of Islam would never have happened, >> and peace would be in Isreal. Pardon my passing judgment, but this theo-centric crap. Even many Christians nowadays have accepted the fact that other religions do exist as more than just direct spawn of Satan-- obviously not this guy. >> Jean: the Balseraph levied one of the biggest accusations anyone >> can lay against the heavenly host...Pride. Jena is a very HUMBLE >> angel, and prefers to not even be called an Archangel at all. Hey, if we're going to be accusing people of pride, why don't we start with Yahweh? He exhibits a pretty big ego fairly often... sorry, I'll stop there before this becomes a Non-IN religious argument. >> Jordi: Angels of Jordi value human life more so than animals, but >Dogs, >> Raccoons, Rabbits, Gerbils, Guinea Pigs, and other cute cuddlies >> are what Jordi favors. Anything soft, fuzzy and cute that doesn't >> have a prideful attitude (like cat's do). Aaaarrrrrgggghhhhhh!!!!!!!!!! Jordi has been *neutered!* >> Michael: He is not a Seraph, but a one of a kind Choir of >> angels... of which he, and the pre-incarnate Christ is (and was in >> Christ's case), called ARCHANGEL. He is the leader of the entire >> army of angels in heaven. He is also known as the Angel of Salem >> (latter named Jerusalem). As opposed to his description by the >> Balseraph, he is the Angel of PEACE, not war. Peace is gained >> through supirior firepower (Jesus's sacrifice), therefore the Wrong. Peace is not gained throgh superior firepower. Sullen obedience is gained through superior firepower. Peace only comes from understanding. >> Novalis: HE is not a "flower child" as the Balseraph stated, and Again, the masculinity complex. >> Numinous Corpus >> --------------- I gotta agree here- Angelic NumCorp shouldn't be horns. >> Use of Scripture >> ---------------- I suppose from a Christian standpoint, this might make sense. It's still more fun to just shoot 'em, though. All in all, these mods are just a little too 'Holier then Thou' for my taste. They lead me to wonder why the War is even still going on- with the Angels being a complete bunch of do-gooder wimps, you'd think the Demons woulda trounced ages back.... - -Rogue, the Demon of Running Red Lights, Calabim Duke of Daredevils. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 02:14:40 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Song of Stability >>>No, but I was saying that lots of people aren't necessarily right, and that disagreeing with them is what makes a lot of good things in the first place.<<< I don't disagree. OTOH, while the majority opinion isn't ALWAYS right, when a new idea is presented to a relatively select group of people who spend a great deal of time contemplating ideas of that nature (i.e. In Nomine ideas on this list), if the majority of responses are consistent, that IS probably a pretty good indicator. {Insert numerous disclaimers & qualifiers to the above statement which I don't feel like repeating and I assume you are intelligent enough to deduce for yourself.} >>>Subjectively: Hell yes, I'm saying AD&D is bad.....Go ahead. Try telling me it's good. I *dare* yah...<<< No, you missed my point. I don't disagree with you about AD&D. (God help you if you express an opinion like that about White Wolf, though. >;) Not that I'd disagree -- but I find the double-standard amusing.) >>>Yes, it wouldn't be official. But it would fit the spirit of things, at least - humans, as parts of the symphony, can use their connection to subdue the changes to it.<<< No -- that would fit the spirit of the World of Darkness. The Symphony confirming to the will of mundanes is not a part of In Nomine. And a Soldier singing a Song is *not* "using his connection" to the Symphony to subdue changes to it. He's creating a disturbance himself to oppose another one. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 02:15:32 -0500 From: "Thomas Davidson" Subject: Re: IN> It finally happened, damnit... - ---------- > From: IQJason > To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > Subject: Re: IN> It finally happened, damnit... > Date: Saturday, December 27, 1997 7:22 PM > > In a message dated 97-12-26 21:51:25 EST, David writes: > > < commentary, including calling Derek Pearsy a Balseraph for his flagrant > lies in the descriptions of the choirs and archangels>> > > Now, now, now. That was a joke, I think. More along the lines that the > descriptions of the archangels couldn't be accurate and reconciled with his > faith. Therefore, they must be lies. Who has more reason to lie about angels > than a demon? > At first blush, I also read it seriously. But now that I've read it again, I don't think he was being completely serious at *all*. I think a lot of it was tongue-in-cheek. > < perspective>> > > Forgive my lack of eloquence, but...well, duh. The title of the piece was > "Christian Mods for In Nomine." It was designed for Christians who *wanted* a > more strictly faithful game. > Perhaps. I just wonder what his sources were. > << Isn't there some anti-RPG group we could report this wanker to...?>> > > I'm gonna cry foul, here. This guy is obviously *pro* RPGs. He's not saying > 'don't play,' he's saying "If you wanna play IN in with a Christian mindset, > here's a way how." I wish *more* people were like him. > I had actually never thought of this topic that way. Thanks for opening my mind a little. I'm so used to hearing those such as Pat Robertson Xtians (though, Robertson I would call a Xtulian :) ) who hate RPGs completely. > << Frankly, I don't think that even I can ridicule this enough myself... >> > > Frankly, I'm not sure that it's ridicule worthy. It's no more "offensive" than > the Bright or Dark Victory seeds. I'm nobody's Xtian, but even *I* enjoyed > reading it, even if I'll never use it. Hold yer stones. > This is too true. Once again: Jason; the voice of reason. :) > yours, > Jason Schneiderman > Balseraph of the Media, Demon of Game Criticism (with a sense of fair play) Thomas Davidson tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us MUSIC: Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, Rush, Jimi Hendrix GAMES: Champions (old and new), In Nomine, Nephilim TV: The X-Files, The Simpsons, Superman, The Tick, The Animaniacs OTHER: Religion, Philosophy, mysticism, the runes, the Tarot, writing ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 02:14:38 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Christian In Nomine Thank you, IQJason, for posting the actual message. I think it teaches all of us a valuable lesson -- I was just about to write a message about how we should just ignore fundie rantings, not having actually read the message myself. Seems I wasn't alone; everyone was getting up in arms assuming from one distorted account that this guy was a Bible-thumping RPG-basher. That's clearly not the case. He's presenting his own proposed scheme for In Nomine based on a fairly conservative Christian interpretation. And there's *absolutely nothing wrong* with that. Nowhere in his post did I see "Anyone who plays the heretical SJG version of In Nomine will burn in hell." So chill. I think he should be encouraged to develop his idea, in fact. If creating a Christianized version of In Nomine leads more Christians to play the game..... :) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 03:16:14 -0500 From: "Thomas Davidson" Subject: Re: IN> Christian In Nomine - ---------- > From: David Edelstein > To: In Nomine List > Subject: IN> Christian In Nomine > Date: Sunday, December 28, 1997 2:14 AM > >Seems I wasn't alone; everyone was getting up in arms assuming from > one distorted account that this guy was a Bible-thumping RPG-basher. > > That's clearly not the case. He's presenting his own proposed scheme for In > Nomine based on a fairly conservative Christian interpretation. > That depends largely on your definition of "conservative". There are some Fundamentalists who would have *serious* problems with this gentleman's post, besides the fact that it is about an RPG (a tool of the Devil, they'll be more than happy to tell you). > And there's *absolutely nothing wrong* with that. Nowhere in his post did I > see "Anyone who plays the heretical SJG version of In Nomine will burn in > hell." > At first reading my reaction was similar to the person who first posted about it here. But now I see it as essentially harmless. > So chill. I think he should be encouraged to develop his idea, in fact. If > creating a Christianized version of In Nomine leads more Christians to play > the game..... :) > Amen! Preach on, Brother Edelstein! :) > -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 02:53:38 -0600 From: Corey Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: What 'he' finally did... At 07:49 PM 12/27/97 EST, you wrote: >> Malakim are NEVER cruel! A vicious lie from the Balseraph. >> The Role of Archangels >> ----------------------------- >> >> Archangels are NEVER "Hostile" to one another. They may have some >> POLITE disagreements based on their purposes given them by The >> Father. Of which they may debate amongst themselves [actually, >> they are so polite and holy, it's more of a race to see who will >> apologize and submit to the other first!]. They work together for >> the cause of Christ. Is it just me or would this game be really, really boring. Not to mention rather Unbiblical. In my experience with Christianty, the Old Testament is full of sex, violence and other non-family values. The New Testament is a little better, but its got its share of violence and really wierd stuff at the end. :) >> >> Balandine: He did not, nor will ever have, sexual relations with >> another Demon or Angel, or ANYONE. The reference to Beleth is a >> sick perversion of the real truth, which is the cause for >> Balandine's calling for the destruction of Beleth. No real >> problems to speak of...he's Freddy Cruger's HOLY twin. And what the heck is wrong with sex... >> >> David: No real problems to speak of, except an Archangel would >> never believe in slavery or forced labor. I see him as the >> Archangel of Unions. The person of Saint King David is to be >> distinguished from David the Archangel. David is the Jimmy Hoffa >> of heaven. Oh, Jimmy Hoffa, great example of good here. >> >> Eli: The lies the Balseraph spoke against Eli are because of whom >> Eli really is! Jesus. Jesus Christ is the Creator. Eli is >> Aramaic for "my God". Angels who serve Christ directly, were the >> ones who came to His aide following His Temptation, and are the >> LEAST likely to ever gain any Dissonance. The Balseraph makes a >> sharp attempt at defaming Christ by writing about "Eli" as having >> "dropped out". He will surely be punished most sever. Eli is >> referred to in the Old Testament as "The Angel of The LORD >> ("Yahweh")", which theologins agree is the pre-incarnate Christ. Don't even ask. >> >> Gabrial: Islam is listed by the Balseraph as a creation of Yves >> with help from Gabrial. They both would have a COW!! Not only is >> it not true, but they are both Hostile towards Malphas, Demon >> Prince of Factions for coming up with the idea and deceiving >> Mohammed. If only a disciple of Christ could have gotten to >> Mohammed in time, the schism of Islam would never have happened, >> and peace would be in Isreal. Isreal is dear to Gabrail's heart, >> as it is the place were HE go to deliver the message of peace to >> Mary. He is STILL the heavenly carrier (The Postman of Heaven) >> from God, in spite of the mligning the Balseraph game Him.... >> basically calling him crazy. In fact, he has a message for the >> Balseraph who did the write up, but He can't seem to find him >> yet... >> >> Janus: He is not a Theif!! And neither are his Angels! They may >> MOVE something... ever loose your keys or misplace your remote >> control for the TV? His Angels are the ones who will help to test >> the humans with this sort of thing. The Balseraph was trying to >> defame Janus and make him appear Chaotic. In fact, God wants >> change, but change is to be done in Order according to His plan. >> The order from God's point of view may appear to Chaotic from our >> temporal point of view as humans. Janus is the Jim Carry or hyper >> Robbin Williams of heavan. Wonderful Jim Carrey in Heaven, I really hoped he was going to Hell, preferable Abbadon. >> >> Jean: the Balseraph levied one of the biggest accusations anyone >> can lay against the heavenly host...Pride. Jena is a very HUMBLE >> angel, and prefers to not even be called an Archangel at all. In >> fact, he does not control he Creative ideas of mankind at all. >> Man was created in the image of God (cf. Gen. 1:27), and thus is >> creative of a free will, and that creativity is not under any >> control, save that of God's soverignty. Jean does not look down >> upon mankind at all due to this fact. In fact, he is so humbled >> by their ability to create (something he doesn't have, and none of >> the angels have), that he can barely keep up with the new >> technologies and innovations man comes up with....not the other >> way around as the Balseraph claimed. Jean is like the Jim Nieh >> the science guy of heaven. >> >> Jordi: Angels of Jordi value human life more so than animals, but >> animals are their Charge. This is different from the write up by >> the Balseraph, as he indicates that Animal life is more important >> to Jordi. Animal life Is IMPORTANT to God and to the angels of >> Jordi, as ALL LIFE IS A GIFT FROM GOD. Specificly, life is defind >> by having blood... thus, generally speaking, incects, protazoa, >> viruses, and plants don't count where Jordi and his angels are >> concerned. It is their job to protect and preserve life, defined >> as having blood. Also, Jordi prefers vessels of Sheep, Deer, >> Rodentia and Canine, not Cats, as the Belseraph stated. Dogs, >> Raccoons, Rabbits, Gerbils, Guinea Pigs, and other cute cuddlies >> are what Jordi favors. Anything soft, fuzzy and cute that doesn't >> have a prideful attitude (like cat's do). When Gabriel stopped >> Abraham from killing Isaac, and God provided a Ram, who do you >> think was the Ram? Yep, it was Jordi's Vessel, ready to be >> sacrificed as a temporary covering for sins of Abraham's family. >> Jordi is the Jim Fowler of heaven.... protecting God's "wild" >> Kingdom. What's wrong with cats??? >> >> Marc: Marc DOES NOT USE SLAVES!! A vicious lie!! The treasures >> of heaven are GOOD WORKS and the SAINTS themselves! Marc is the >> archangel put in charge of helping move commerce, but it is the >> LOWEST JOB in heaven... but he does it with Humble HOLY >> submission. The heavenly IRS's job is to prompt people to GIVE >> and do GOOD WORKS, so the heavenly treasure will increase. The >> Allen Greenspan of Heaven. But the Bible, but, but, Oh never mind. >> >> Michael: He is not a Seraph, but a one of a kind Choir of >> angels... of which he, and the pre-incarnate Christ is (and was in >> Christ's case), called ARCHANGEL. He is the leader of the entire >> army of angels in heaven. He is also known as the Angel of Salem >> (latter named Jerusalem). As opposed to his description by the >> Balseraph, he is the Angel of PEACE, not war. Peace is gained >> through supirior firepower (Jesus's sacrifice), therefore the >> effects of being an Angel of Michael are the same in game >> mechanics terms. All the other Archangels get their orders from >> Him, as He is God's "Commander and Chief" of the heavenly host. >> Being an angel of Michael is like working for the joint chiefs of >> staff of heaven's office. Notice how he left out Dom and Larry... >> >> Novalis: HE is not a "flower child" as the Balseraph stated, and >> his angels do not go to Grateful Dead concerts, unless they have a >> good reason to. They are more often seen at board meetings and >> peace talks trying to get the humans to work together to solve >> their problems peacefully. To the Balsereph's credit, Novalis was >> heavily involved in the 60's Jesus movement. To Novalis'credit, >> almost all the wars in the last 50 years have been won at the >> peace talk table. I think of him more like a heavenly Jimmy >> Carter. Vietnam and Korea >> >> Yves: The "George Burns" angel of Destiny is not much different >> then his description except: He is a Cherub. He was not create >> first, Michael was. He did not name God, God named God (a >> discussion within the Trinity came up with the name; Yahweh - I AM >> for The Father, Holy Spirit for Holy Spirit, and Yeshuah (Jesus - >> Yahweh Saves) for the Son). The Balseraph who wrote him up, was >> trying to get the reader to think that Yves is the powerful >> manipulator. A being near omniscience who invents religions for >> humans to follow, and who is a dark background for the light to >> show up on...gee...who does that sound like? Could it >> be...hmmm...SATAN! The Balseraph was trying to get the reader to >> think good thoughts about Satan through using the description of >> innocent Yves. Yves, in reality, is the archangel of Randomness. >> What number comes up on the die when you roll it is under the Law >> of Randomness which God put Yves in charge of. So the game >> mechanics of Yves' angels are the same. >> >> The Marches >> ----------- >> The "Marches" are the realm between the dimension of Temporal >> Reality, and the dimension of Essential Reality. Temporal Reality >> is this World we live in as humans. Essential Reality (also >> called Eternal Reality) is the dimension of Heaven and Hell. The >> Marches is the realm of ideas. C.S. Lewis' Narnia Chronicles, >> J.R.R. Tolken's fantasy works, Steven W. Lawhead's fantasy works, >> etc.. all dwell here, in the realm of ideas, The Marches. Ideals >> in the Marches can be good, evil or indifferent. So the existence >> of pagan gods, etc., is in the realm of The Marches... the realm >> of ideals. God may allow an ideal in the marches to cross-over >> into Temporal Reality for one reason or another, and the Angels >> may have to deal with it (game seeds for GM's). How do you know >> what a Square is? Because in the realm of ideals, there exists >> the ideal square in your mind. Thus when you see a square, you >> know it's a square because it matches the ideal you have in your >> mind. Weird stuff for GM's to play with. Not a big problem here. >> >> >> Numinous Corpus >> --------------- >> An appropriate HOLY appearance is available as determined by the >> GM. For example; "Horns" can be a Halo of Light. A "Tail" can be >> an independent Flaming Sword (cf. Gen. 3:24). There are >> additional Numinous corpus available for Angels as determined by >> the GM. I know of no scripture to support Numinous corpus, but >> that is not to say that they can't be used for game play purposes. >> But I have a real hard time with Angels having hoofs and spiked >> tongues... the appearance would have to be HOLY some how. I actually like this. Overall, I think it misses the point of the game, but hey its your game 'Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law; Love is the Law, Love under Will' Corey - --"I'll try "Do or do not. There is nor try." "Knock that shit off. We gotta bus ta catch. Jedi Bitch." Holdon, Jay, and Silent Bob from "Chasing Amy" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 03:27:34 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: What 'he' finally did... Just a quick note: I have better things to do with my time than encourage someone who is either a troll or a radical religous follower (7th-Day Adventist? Your guess is as good as mine) who, by my reading of his post, slandered Derek Pearcy, spouted a time-wasting series of inconsistencies which only make sense to a conservative Christian seeking a tool to use to indoctrinate the young or easily influenced. That's all one sentence. }:-{D This get did not say, in any polite or socially acceptable fashion, "Here's an idea if you'd like a more Christian-focused game." He basically said that Derek and SJG were WRONG, and he was right, and that Derek was a demon for not getting the story 'right.' This person frightens me a lot. Either he's a troll, in which case we will definitely see him again, or he is a true believer, and since it appears that the Gumby has taken the IN Rulebook as the Third Testament (Fourth for you Mormons out there), I have serious fears about this gent's ties to reality. I'd say 'shut up and don't encourage him' if I thought it would do any good now. As it is, I'm just going to go back to working up some new ideas for the next chapter of the DVPBEM #1 group's campaign... Enjoy your looney... Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | "It's Christmas in Heaven, http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | there's great shows on TV; c/o White Lightning Productions | the Sound of Music twice an hour http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | and Jaws I, II and III." Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- A Nybbas Christmas http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 06:13:26 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> A new and disturbing NPC encounter... > THE DEMON OF PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENTS > Enjoy! > > -David Damn, Skippy! That's good stuff, there. More hooks than a fishing conpetition. Keep it up. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "Have you ever noticed...whenever God needed a killing...he sent an angel. Have you ever wondered what a creature like that must be like? Your whole existence praising your God but always with one wing dipped in blood. Would you ever really want to see an angel?" - The Prophecy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 06:13:27 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> The Marches...or...a Campaign Setting (Parts 1-2) > At one end of the Marches is Beleth's Tower, beyond it, more or > less, is Hell. > > At the other end of the Marches is Blandine's Tower, beyond it, more > or less, is Heaven. > > Far along the Marches live the deposed pagan gods and eerie servitor > ethereal spirits. > > But right in the middle of it is Los Angeles. I love the intro, and the rest wasn't half bad, either. Waiting for more, my friend... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "Have you ever noticed...whenever God needed a killing...he sent an angel. Have you ever wondered what a creature like that must be like? Your whole existence praising your God but always with one wing dipped in blood. Would you ever really want to see an angel?" - The Prophecy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 06:13:27 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Christian In Nomine > And there's *absolutely nothing wrong* with that. Nowhere in his > post did I see "Anyone who plays the heretical SJG version of In > Nomine will burn in hell." Well, he did say Derek was headed for hell. But hey - he's a fundie, and they need their daily recommended bible-thumpings... > So chill. I think he should be encouraged to develop his idea, in > fact. If creating a Christianized version of In Nomine leads more > Christians to play the game..... :) He did have some interesting stuff, yes. All in all, more fun to laugh at then use, but it's not as bad as I'd thought it would be. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "Have you ever noticed...whenever God needed a killing...he sent an angel. Have you ever wondered what a creature like that must be like? Your whole existence praising your God but always with one wing dipped in blood. Would you ever really want to see an angel?" - The Prophecy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 06:13:27 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> A review and a quibble... > First, has anyone noticed that once you get your Fighting level to > above a 12, kicks are exactly the same as punches? You get a -1 to > the roll (which is still an autosuccess), and +1 damage - but you > lose 1 point from the check digit due to the skill reduction. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. A really skilled fighter is going to be about as dangerous with hands as with feet. Granted, it isn't *really* realistic for the kick to do more than the punch, but then the combat never was. > This isn't meant to resurrect the combat system arguments (I like > the system as written, since I don't care much about combat), but > it's a silly glitch. The alternative is just to let the player do > +1 damage for a kick with no skill reduction - but you'll get some > players who just kick constantly... Better to just leave it lie, IMO. It's no horrible thing. Alternately, say that an autosuccess kick does +1 damage. > Second, a quick recommendation for reading - JLA: PARADISE LOST by > DC Comics. > > Worth checking out. Hmm - maybe. I'll look at it in the store, at least. > PS - having just won $500 for one of my short stories, I'm off to > buy The Marches. Finally, enough money to buy gaming stuff! Congrats! Who'd did you get the $500 from? Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "Have you ever noticed...whenever God needed a killing...he sent an angel. Have you ever wondered what a creature like that must be like? Your whole existence praising your God but always with one wing dipped in blood. Would you ever really want to see an angel?" - The Prophecy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 06:13:27 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: What 'he' finally did... > In my experience with Christianty, the Old Testament is full of > sex, violence and other non-family values. The New Testament is a > little better, but its got its share of violence and really wierd > stuff at the end. :) Yep. But very few fundamentalists actually read most of the bible - instead, they go for limited quotes that they can use to brow-beat those they dislike. And this boy is skating *dangerously* close to fundie... > >> Balandine: He did not, nor will ever have, sexual relations with > >> another Demon or Angel, or ANYONE. The reference to Beleth is a > >> sick perversion of the real truth, which is the cause for > >> Balandine's calling for the destruction of Beleth. No real > >> problems to speak of...he's Freddy Cruger's HOLY twin. > > And what the heck is wrong with sex... Oh, boy. Be glad he didn't hear you say that. > >> David: No real problems to speak of, except an Archangel would > >> never believe in slavery or forced labor. I see him as the > >> Archangel of Unions. The person of Saint King David is to be > >> distinguished from David the Archangel. David is the Jimmy Hoffa > >> of heaven. > > Oh, Jimmy Hoffa, great example of good here. I know - I liked that one, too. But even if it wasn't what he intended, its an interesting way of looking at David. > What's wrong with cats??? They're prideful. And they kill other things. Remember, the new, happy Jordi loves only god's *good* creatures - cows, pigs, and other animals that we lovingly slaughter, as well as canaries and turtles, which make good pets. Yeah, bleah. That this was some of the worst stuff is pretty good, though. > But the Bible, but, but, Oh never mind. Trust me; if you ever plan to run into this guy (or somebody like him), have *your* Bible quotes well memorized. > Notice how he left out Dom and Larry... But (other than Larry being the leader of god's army) they're right on the money. > >> I think of him more like a heavenly Jimmy Carter. > > Vietnam and Korea Yeah, me too. Oh well. > >> The Marches > >> ----------- > > Not a big problem here. In fact, nice enough stuff to play with, if a bit obvious. > --"I'll try." > "Do or do not. There is nor try." > "Knock that shit off. We gotta bus ta catch. Jedi Bitch." > Holdon, Jay, and Silent Bob from "Chasing Amy" Gotta say, your quote has inspired me to try finding the movie. And I'll warn you - they (Jay and Silent Bob) are in "Dogma" (the movie that somebody gave the address to the spoiler script a while back). It's some pretty funny stuff, if you liked Clerks. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "From where do you come barbarian, Crow: You mean you're a prostitute and you don't know from where guys-- Mike: Don't make me wash your mouth out with soap. http://brie.bmsc.washington.edu/people/merritt/books/Eye_of_Argon.html ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #534 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.