From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Feb 25 11:28:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by deliverator.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA16359; Tue, 25 Feb 1997 11:27:10 -0600 (CST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA07791 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 25 Feb 1997 11:30:19 -0600 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 11:30:19 -0600 Message-Id: <199702251730.LAA07791@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #39 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, February 25 1997 Volume 01 : Number 039 In this digest: Re: IN> A Balseraph's Primer for Paradigm Realignment Re: IN> A Balseraph's Primer for Paradigm Realignment Re:IN> Lists (was Re: IN> A Balseraph's Primer for Paradigm Realignment) Re:IN> Lists (was Re: IN> A Balseraph's Primer for Paradigm Realignment) IN> Bodhi's 4th Adventure Re: IN> Who's Who In Hell: Sitri, Demon of Homosexuality IN> Penicillin IN> Nergal Re: IN> Who's Who In Hell: Sitri, Demon of Homosexuality Re: IN> Re: Sitri, Demon of Homosexuality Re: IN> Character sheets Re: IN> Bodhi's 4th Adventure Re: IN> Nergal IN> IN: Off subject, but important. Re: IN> Who's Who In Hell: Sitri, Demon of Homosexuality Re: IN> Michael/Lucifer Re: IN> 2nd Adventure Idea Re: IN> IN: Off subject, but important. IN> The Four Horsemen IN> Saints Re: IN> Michael/Lucifer IN> Negative check digits... IN> RE: Off subject, but important Re: IN> The Four Horsemen Re: IN> Michael/Lucifer Re: IN> Negative check digits... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 00:21:35 -0600 (CST) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> A Balseraph's Primer for Paradigm Realignment Subject: Re: IN> A Balseraph's Primer for Paradigm Realignment On Tue, 25 Feb 1997, Donald G Bixler wrote: > Good work. Out of curiosity: Mr. Newquist? Are you planning to keep > these on the INC, or should I maintain their existance in the limbo that > is my email box? I haven't been saving these lists. If someone wants to collect them or put them online, I'll be pleased to post a link to the site(s) at the INC. - ---------------------------------- Jason Newquist, lists@nocturne.org Network Operations, San Jose Netcom Inc. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 00:51:47 -0600 (CST) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re:IN> Lists (was Re: IN> A Balseraph's Primer for Paradigm Realignment) On Mon, 24 Feb 1997, Jason Newquist wrote: > I haven't been saving these lists. If someone wants to collect them or > put them online, I'll be pleased to post a link to the site(s) at the INC. Alright then, I guess I'll do it since I have my Calabim list, the three full Balseraph lists, the Lilim list, and both Impudite lists. I guess they'll go up at my site. (When I rearrange the thing.) PS- And let me know if I've missed one... > Jason Newquist, lists@nocturne.org Oops da Ogre, solar powered and available in designer colors! __ Oops da Ogre (mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu) Donald G. Bixler "Bah! Vhat good is science if no one gets hurt?" -Dr. Chromedome ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 00:59:01 -0600 (CST) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re:IN> Lists (was Re: IN> A Balseraph's Primer for Paradigm Realignment) Sorry about the error, but I only have one Impudite list, and that's all that I've run across. Sorry for the error, but I'm considering switching from elm to pine and haven't gotten used to pine yet. Oops da Ogre, who still enjoys his 2600. SOTA? Never touched the stuff. - -- Oops da Ogre (mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu) Donald G. Bixler "Bah! Vhat good is science if no one gets hurt?" -Dr. Chromedome ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 01:25:42 +0000 From: "Robert Wolff" Subject: IN> Bodhi's 4th Adventure Adventure Idea: Title: All's Well that Ends Well Introductory Story: You'd think that the past few weeks would make it difficult for a reporter to come up with something interesting and newsworthy, wouldn't you? I mean, after that comet left so much debris that the sun got blocked out, and the fish all died due to that germ warfare spill, and then... well, I don't have to recall all the events for you. Anybody who's been living for the past few weeks knows what a Hell of a time we've had. But this,... this was still an interesting newsday, end of the world notwithstanding... I got out my notebook and began writing up the answers that the guy was giving me. He was still pretty shaken up, but I tried to get the story straight. I had a deadline to make, and this story definitely had to go into the next edition, but I still wasn't sure if he was a reliable witness, or just some nutcake... "So then what happened," I said, getting the guy to continue his story. "Yeah, well, like I said," he mumbled, "I was walkin' along this street, here, when I looks up, and I sees these guys fighting up by the rooftop of the building." "Okay, you told me that, but do you want to go over the description agian...", I said, pushing for details that I didn't really think would hole up a second time around. "I already said, the one guy looked like some sorta' soldier-boy, with a crew-cut, you know? The other guys looked sorta regular, except for the guy with glasses. He looked sorta the book-learnin' type. Anyway, he was holding this here horn, and, ..." "Excuse me, did you say a horn?" I asked, for clarification "That's right, some sorta horn. Anyways, that's when the guy with wings..." "Again, sorry for the interruption, but was this the guy with birds wings or bats wings?" I asked, trying to trip him up. "The guy with birds wings. He says something like `This is not right', `cept that he says it all funny, like you can hear it in capital letters or something. So the guy with bat wings pulls out a gun and starts shooting." "And that's when..." "...and that's when the guy with the glasses blows the horn, and the two guys with wings start screaming." His story had held up over two successive tellings. I was beginning to wonder if this guy was a nut-case who was lying, or a nut-case who believed his own line of crap. He definitely couldn't be anything other than a nut-case, ... could he...? He continued, "... and the guy with the glasses keeps blowing this here horn until the two wing guys finally just fall over. Their wings kinda faded, and they passed out like they'd been mickeyed..." "and then...? "Well, about then is when St. Joseph's Basilica blew to pieces. So after that, I didn't see much, `cause of the dust. I figure the normal-lookin' guys got away, huh?" I started to get that itch at the back of my neck. One word started repeating over and over in my head, like a siren-song calling me forward.... PULITZER!!! Adventure Premise: The story is essentially your standard end-of-the-world story, with a twist. The book of Revelations is actually just one potential telling of the story, as seen through the all-too-one-sided perspective of John. Instead, one must realize that the end-of-the-world predictions are only one way in which the final chapter may be written. Of course Hell has their own version of an Infernal Revelations, in which the trumps of doom are blown and Hell finally kicks some Divine Ass. The adventure centers around the blowing of the trumps of Doom. These seven trumpets are, instead of merely heralds of successive stages in God's triumph, the actual objects that the final battle will be fought over. These seven Trumps are hidden across the surface of the globe, in various holy/unholy or historic landmarks. They look like ordinary, if somewhat shoddy, post-horns or long-horns. However, when blown, they do Celestial damage to all enemies within hearing distance. Thus, anyone hearing the blast of a Trump will lose 1 Celestial Force. Three blasts of a Trump will destroy your average Celestial/Diabolical, and 6 blasts will destroy any Archangel/Prince most assuredly. The problem, then, is that neither side knows the location of the trumps until the prophesied time has approached. Since the sea has recently given up its dead, the sky has turned black as sack-cloth, and all that stuff, the knowledge of the locations of FirstTrump has also been mystically defined by both Yves and Kronos. After one side finds the First Trump, and it is Blown for the first time, the Second Trump's presence can be known. Not until the Second Trump is blown can the presence of the Third Trump be divined, and so on. What is supposed to happen, theoretically, is that both sides rush after various Trumps, one side wins per battle, Blows the Trump, kills the other side, but hopefully the other side will find the next trump, keeping the odds even. Since the Celestial-Damage effect only works within hearing distance of the hiding place of each specific Trump, there is no reason why possession of a previous Trump should influence the battle over posession for a successive Trump, save that perhaps the best and brightest of your side perished in the previous battle after the other side won the Trump and Sounded it. Whichever side blows more Trumps will win the War. Seven trumps... no stale-mate possible. Somebody's got to win. HOWEVER: Along comes a group of mortals, who, through incredible luck/providence/chance/misfortune, have come to be in the posession of an ancient piece of parchment that makes reference to the end of the world. This parchment contains the supposed transcript of the dreams of a mad god, who, upon dreaming a horrific nightmare about the end of the world, wrote the nightmare down, and then immediately killed himself to escape the horrors of his vision. The parchment has been long thought to be a hoax, or worthless superstition, or some other piece of worthless academic nonsense. However, with the recent events in the world (the sun going out, the fish dying, etc.), one lone professsor has rallied together what frail mortal forces he can in an attempt to follow the instructions contained in the parchment. For the parchment contains, (unknown at the beginning of the adventure...) hidden within the text of a disturbing dream about the end of the world, secret messages that give clues to the locations of the Seven Trumps of Doom. Thus, while the Celestials/Diabolicals are actually incapable of Knowing the location of a trump before its predecessor is sounded (due to the mysteries of Celestial nature, I guess...), this one professor has figured out what might possibly be the location of the Trumps that are, as of yet, unsounded. If the Humans can blow at least one Trump, and the other sides blow three apiece, the final War will end in a stale-mate. Thus, humanity will have another Millenium in which to figure out a new way to offset the final battle between Good and Evil. Because let's face it, in a war between Good and Evil, poor pathetic humans are the main losers! On the other hand, you can never be sure that each side will only blow three trumps apiece. The best way for humans to be sure of their continued existence is simply to blow FOUR trumps themselves. That way, no matter what happens, humans are sure that neither side wins their stupid War. The Parchment: Sorry I just can't send you my copy, but it was hand-written. The location of the letters demanded that you finagle them a little more than I was able to do with a word processor. As well, I had some letters that didn't appear in English Fonts, so I had to hand-write the thing, stain it with tea, burn the edges, and otherwise make it look old and well-used. It contained Latin, French, a little Navajo, etc... IT IS VITALLY IMPORTANT that the players don't know that the parchment is anything other than a nifty prop that the GM made for them. Downplay its importance. What happend when we gamed is that it was read once, set aside, and nobody looked at it for days. Then, when things were at their bleakest, and the party was off on yet another wild goose chase, somebody bothered to pick it up again, and noticed that the text-body could be re-interpreted in certain ways, found the first Secret Message, and nearly had an embolism trying to explain to the rest of the party that they'd held the secret to winning the War in the palm of their hands and hadn't even known it! (Oh... the expressions on their faces, the expletives that were shouted,... the stuff GM's dreams are made of :) ) The parchment contains an assortment of poetic/prophetic sounding statements all about a dream in which the world ends in a series of bloody battles. However, hidden within the text of the parchment are secret messages about the location of each Trump. The text of the dreams suggests the method in which each message is hidden. Example: If the text of the dreams contained a sentence that read, "And I saw them, rank and rank, file and file, lined up in a great series of columns and rows. And the Leaders of each Line held their Word and their Faith, so that, no matter what else was said, it was known that each Line contained the Word that was Salvation." Anybody with any fairly deep smarts can figure out that the beginning of each line of the text is significant. Sure enough, when you read the first letter of every line (read the first letters down in a long column...) you get a message spelling out "The First Trump Lies beneath Joseph's Temple." With a little skull sweat, you figure this might mean St. Joseph's Basilica. You rush there, and find the Trump. The Secret Messages are alluded to within the context of the text, and the Messages themselves must be hidden within the body of the text, only readable along certain lines, or in certain fashions. Examples I used when I ran this campaign were... First Trump: First letter of every line of text spells a message. Second Trump: First word of every sentence in the First Paragraph spells a message. Third Trump: Second word of every sentence in the Second paragraph spells a message. Fourth Trump: Third word of every line spells a message. Fifth Trump: When a line was drawn connecting the corners of the page, the diagonal line passed through a series of words which spelled a message. Sixth Trump: Four words, the only ones written all in capital letters, form a perfect square on the page. The four words are Earth, Air, Fire, and Water. The word that is contained in the exact center of this square is the name of a City. This City contains an old fountain, which has the symbols for the four elements written on it on the four cardinal points of the compass. Underneath the fountain lies the Trump Seventh Trump: No secret allusion within the body of the text. Instead, there are seven letters within the body of the text which are all bizarre (they actually were inverted V's , written upside down). It was discovered that these V's were spaced along the 7 points of a 7-pointed star. They could be joined to form a perfect geometric figure. When the lines were made to connect these points, they were found to form a star with a seven-sided shape in the middle. This shape perfectly surrounded exactly one word of the body of the text... "Finale". Then, when the seven V's were studied, it was discovered that each V contained a reference surrounding it (i.e. the word immediately preceding or following) that was a landmark of some sort. The players rushed out, found a map, connected the seven landmarks, and overlayed the location of the word "finale" on their text with the location on the map. It was found coincide perfectly with the location of the final Trump... might I suggest King Solomon's Temple, where Solomon Chained the Djinn... When I Ran This Adventure: (NB. I ran this as a Dangerous Journeys campaign, before I owned IN) Well, let's just say that the humans did pretty good for themselves. They wound up blowing four of the seven trumps for themselves, and found themselves as newly appointed Angels in the Celestial Scheme. They chose Words which reflected their undying devotion to Humanity, and then set about doing everything in their Power to forestall the next War. ********************************** Again, let me know what you think. BTW... Derek and Moriah, you guys read any of these things? Is this the sort of stuff you guys had in mind? Sincerely, Rob Wolff / Bodhi rob@v-wave.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 97 02:53:20 -0600 (CST) From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting) Subject: Re: IN> Who's Who In Hell: Sitri, Demon of Homosexuality At 05:12 PM 2/24/97 -0500, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote: >Okay...I've been working on this one for a while (ask the Ogre) and I thought >I'd put it up for public appraisal. As a warning: the text below deals with a >sensitive topic; reader discretion is advised. Plus, it's a new character -- >anybody legally barred from reading it should press 'd' now and hope for the >best. > >All clear? Cool. Then enjoy. > >SITRI >Demon of Homosexuality >Habbalah Captain of Lust > >Sitri first manifested as an angel in service to Eli, a fact that caused no >little confusion among the members of the Divine hierarchy. Still, it stands >to reason that, if someone had to hold the divine word of Homosexual Love, it >would have to be an Elohite. Their resonance for emotion and utter >impartiality would be required to understand that the love held by these men >and women was real, and that judgment should not be passed based on who >happens to receive that love. As an angel, Sitri helped his charges maintain >the balance between eros and agape, the passion of the body and the stirrings >of the heart. Sadly, he also often had to help them endure the trials >inflicted upon them for the feelings they held. > >Although Eli did his best to protect him, the eyes of the Archangel Dominic >looked with scorn upon an angel who encouraged acts which were clearly >"abominations that cried out to God." When Eli abandoned the Halls of Heaven >in the beginning of the century, Sitri was left without a Superior and >defenseless against the will of those who would cast him out. (Novalis kept >silent as the servitor of her ally was tried. Love of man for man and woman >for woman she could comprehend...but she couldn't bear the thought of the >"unnatural" acts involved.) Good up until that last line. Novalis (aka The Hippy Angel) probably wouldn't see anything wrong with it. Free Love's one of her ideals, at least by implication. Also, whether or not something sexual is unnatural isn't her sphere so much as it is Jordi's and Eli's. >It wasn't long after that Sitri Fell. His perspective fractured, he now >emphasizes the physical part of homosexuality over all else, and tends his >"divine" word by using his resonance to encourage same-sex lust. Strangely >enough, though, he seems to exhibit the same care for his charges that he >always did, but shows no signs of dissonance. Either Andre is taking good >care of his servant, or Sitri isn't as far away from Eli as others think. > >Appearance: Sitri retains the androgyny integral to his word, keeping a >similar form in both his male and female vessels. His bodies are kept nearly >hairless: a buzz-cut hairstyle and a completely shaven body, adorned with >several piercings in provoactive places. This goes against most Habbalite descriptions; they prefer radiant sexuality. >Relations: Sitri is on very good terms with Andrealphus, and has done several >services for Nybbas, who has responded by improving the media's image of gay >culture -- compare the present image of homosexuality to its status *before* >Eli left. However, he's an easy target for Andre's enemies: Saminga and Baal, >especially. Too bad there's not a pestilence one... another natural enemy. Kestrel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 10:54:37 GMT From: "Psychedelic Goblin" <942777u@merkland.rgu.ac.uk> Subject: IN> Penicillin Andy Butcher sez: > Didn't Nergal quit about 50 years ago, muttering under his breath > about Penicillin? Hey, Nergal never quits! He's a determined guy. And he still gets around a lot (especially in the 3rd World). " Blast it! The fools have invented penicillin! What to do..." (years of tinkering later) "Eureka! AIDS! Let's see the little bastids cure this little beauty" cheers - Psygoblin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 11:07:55 GMT From: "Psychedelic Goblin" <942777u@merkland.rgu.ac.uk> Subject: IN> Nergal 'lo all, Thanks for the replies. Answering a number of questions, Nergal is indeed a demon based in fact. GW based Nurgle on him. I think Nergal was originally Babylonian, but got adopted (as did just about everything else) by the Catholic church. Blade sez: >Well, it is possible that you could take the Good Omens idea and >replace Pestilence with Pollution :) A good suggestion, but I'd say that pollution is part of pestilence anyway. It's pestilence of the land. So Pollution is probably Nergal's right-hand man, and Disease is his left. Damn, those are powerful words. Hey, me likes! This'll be going in the write-up. Blade also sez: >PS. Dont forget about Famine! Diet pills, etc... The 8os must have >been heaven (er, hell?) for the Demon of Famine. Name that one Twiggy ;) Heh! A demon-prince of Famine would certainly round out the Cuddly 4. He or she'd probably be a close chum of ol' Nergal here, and a dire rival of Hageenti. Oh, oh, lots of cool ideas and possibilities... Psychedelic Goblin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 07:19:55 -0600 (CST) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> Who's Who In Hell: Sitri, Demon of Homosexuality > Good up until that last line. Novalis (aka The Hippy Angel) probably > wouldn't see anything wrong with it. Free Love's one of her ideals, > at least by implication. Also, whether or not something sexual is unnatural > isn't her sphere so much as it is Jordi's and Eli's. His reasoning behind that comment, at least as far as my impression was, was that as the angel associated with fertility, she had a bit of a hangup over Sirti's word. > >Appearance: Sitri retains the androgyny integral to his word, keeping a > >similar form in both his male and female vessels. His bodies are kept nearly > >hairless: a buzz-cut hairstyle and a completely shaven body, adorned with > >several piercings in provoactive places. > > This goes against most Habbalite descriptions; they prefer radiant sexuality. First of all, this isn't your typical Habbalite; Sirti still cares for his charges, and doesn't quite seem completely "demonized". Secondly, the androgenous look is considered quite attractive by many people and judging by the trends in some advertising, that number may be growing. > Kestrel Oops da Ogre, hoping that that has helped clarify a few things ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 08:49:24 -0500 (EST) From: DeltaS Subject: Re: IN> Re: Sitri, Demon of Homosexuality On Mon, 24 Feb 1997, Robert Wolff wrote: > Loved it. I thought it was a good piece of work, well thought out, > and fits well into the IN rules scheme. Me too please! > Of course, I'm not sure I like the implications of it,... I'm too > Socratic to not want to have Eros/Agape in balance. But maybe I'll > just make an Angel on one side, to counter Sitri on the other. I > just don't like the implications that all of heaven can't see > homosexuality as a valid expression of love (while I'm sure Dominic > might not like it...). I'm not sure that I agree with you that there always needs to be a 'balance'. However, I also am not sure if I feel comfortable with the 'implications'. However, I love this character! It's exactly the kind of character that I personally think makes a game like IN so wonderful. -DeltaS The Angel of Posturing, Cheribum of Janus. Rite: Soul of the Poseur ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 08:54:25 -0500 (EST) From: DeltaS Subject: Re: IN> Character sheets On Mon, 24 Feb 1997, Scott L. Hamilton wrote: > >Oops da Ogre, who will be sending Salmaci, the Demon of Bisexuality to > >the list sometime (hopefully) soon > > I do hope you are joking. I hope your not! Loved the Demon of Homosexuality as well. DeltaS - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 09:57:49 -0500 From: Tim Seiger Subject: Re: IN> Bodhi's 4th Adventure I think this is the best idea yet! I love the conept of the hidden messages in the storie of the dream, it's absolutely fantastic, just the kind of thing I love to through at my players. If anyone is looking for another reference to end of the world fiction, might I suggest _The Eighth Trumpet_, I'm afraid I've forgotten the author. But this was truly an excellent book, that I have just decided I must reread before running a game of IN. I will let you know what ideas I comeup with from it. Thanks for all the great ideas, keep up the good work! - -Tim - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------- The opinions expressed above are not necessarily affiliated with Digital in any way. I am an employee, not a spokesperson. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 10:09:15 -0500 (EST) From: Don Fnordlioni Subject: Re: IN> Nergal On Tue, 25 Feb 1997, Psychedelic Goblin wrote: > Answering a number of questions, Nergal is indeed a demon based in > fact. GW based Nurgle on him. If your interested, Nergal is also already in the IN world -- he's He Who Does Not Return Phone Calls, and narrates Lucifer's tale. Pro'lly doesn't matter, though. Nurgle in WH40k was my favorite chaos god. > Heh! A demon-prince of Famine would certainly round out the Cuddly 4. Just wanted to pipe up about the 4 Horsemen -- they're sent to Earth from God, remember. Deep down, they're good guys, doing God's work. (And my Bible gives them the roles of Conquest, War, Commerce, and Death, which looks like Baal, Michael, Marcus, and Saminga.) | Don Fnordlioni | donfnord@pitt.edu | http://www.pitt.edu/~donfnord | Please use PGP encryption when writing Finger donfnord@pitt.edu for key ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 10:55:11 +0000 From: "J. S. Cardella" Subject: IN> IN: Off subject, but important. - ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 07:35:55 -0700 To: dronf@io.com From: Michalene Cardella Subject: Re: Email warning: for all countries (fwd) This is off the record, but I thought it might interest my fellow net junkies. This came to me via a friend in Arizona. I am responding imediately. >URGENT!!! This IS for real!!! Your local telephone company has >filed a proposal with the FCC to impose per minute charges for >your internet service. Any and all inter-net connections will >be billed as per minute long distance calls. They contend that >your usage has or will hinder the operation of the telephone >network.Internet usage will diminish if users were required to >pay additional per minute charges. This does NOT just effect >U.S. residents. inter-net users in ALL countries WILL be >affected by this. The FCC has created an email box for your >comments, responses MUST be received by February 13, 1997. >Send your comments to isp@fcc.gov and tell them what you >think. >Every phone company is in on this one, and they are trying to >sneak it in just under the wire for litiagation. Let everyone >you know here this one. Get the e-mail address to everyone you >can think of.isp@fcc.gov >Please forward this email to all your friends on the internet >today so all our voices may be heard! IF THIS PASSES, YOU WILL >BE PAYING PER MINUTE LONG DISTANCE RATES FOR YOUR INTER-NET >CONNECTION!!! Please send an e-mail to the FCC and have your >friends do the same. YOU CAN make a difference!!! >** P.S. Whatever your position, your voice will NOT be heard >unless your comments carry the FCC docket number in the subject >line of your email: CC docket No. 96-263 >>> >>----------------------------------------- >>> >>Judy W. Thompson, Secretary >>> >>Dept. of Philosophy >>> >>Vanderbilt University >>> -- >>> ** >>> *********************************** >>> * CCCC OOOO GGGGG SSSSS >>> *** C O O G S >>> *** C O O G GGG SSSSS >>> *** C O O G G G S >>> *** C O O G G S >>> *** CCCC OOOO GGGGG SSSSS >>> *** >>> Council of Graduate Students (COGS) >>> 316 Student Services Building >>> Michigan State University >>> (517) 353-9189 >>> cogs@pilot.msu.edu >>> fax: 432-0034 >>> >> >> >>-- >>Pranab Rajbhandari >>Department of Sociology >>Rm 316, Berkey Hall >>Michigan State University >>East Lansing, MI 48824-1111 >> >>email: Rajbhand@pilot.msu.edu >>ph: 517-336-7005 >> >> > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Joel Cardella "Chinese food IS my life" http://www.io.com/~dronf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 10:56:25 EST From: jdye@juno.com (JOHN C DYE) Subject: Re: IN> Who's Who In Hell: Sitri, Demon of Homosexuality > > First of all, this isn't your typical Habbalite; Sirti still >cares for his charges, and doesn't quite seem completely "demonized". >Secondly, the androgenous look is considered quite attractive by many >people and judging by the trends in some advertising, that number may >be >growing. God, I hope not! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 10:56:25 EST From: jdye@juno.com (JOHN C DYE) Subject: Re: IN> Michael/Lucifer >Yeah, sure. Let's look at all the examples from history. Carthage? >No. Napoleon? Nope. Spain. No. Japan and Germany? Well, when >Heaven >starts a Marshall plan, I'll believe it (on that day disco will also >die in Hell, the Pope will go Hassidic Jewish, and Michael will marry >Novalis). Psygoblin wrote >Japan and Germany? Bad examples my friend, as they are among the >strongest economies in the world at the present. Primarily due to >technology and engineering of course. It's Vapula at work! ;-) Obviously you didn't read the full post, or don't know what the Marshall Plan was. Essentially America sent out a few Billion $ (lots and lots) to Japan and Germany. In addition, several trade policys were adjusted to favor Japan and Germany. You don't think Japan shattered the auto industry alone with their initial tinkertoy cars, do you? This was to oppose the Evil Empire (Russia). Your response has no validity, because to Mikey and the boys, Lucy is the Evil Empire. No negotiation, no aid, no peace. Three rounds and whoever is left standing wins. If there had been no Marshall Plan, there would not be anything like the recovery that was experienced. Think of East Germany at best (not an entirely valid example either, because the Russians had their own Marshall Plan). >Also, it could be cool if evil were stronger, because then the >angels would be fighting a desperate fight against impossible odds. Sure the angels could win hands down pretty quickly, but what would happen to mankind in the intrim. It is about Man, not merely defeating evil. And pigheaded and stupid men (who probably think evil is cool) are making it enough of an uphill fight. You can't help those who won't help themselves. Evil is not cool. jdye@juno.com Formerly the GM God, evicted from Beleth's Lands for excessive Internet Use Since becoming John whose Word is Undead Hunter, Malakim of Gabrial in the hopes of getting some Flame proofing ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 11:02:07 -0500 (EST) From: Kenneth M Coble Subject: Re: IN> 2nd Adventure Idea On Sat, 22 Feb 1997, Robert Wolff wrote: [SNIP COOL ADVENTURE SEED] Well, I'll admit to being fairly uninterested in the first adventure you posted, but that has less to do with your imagination than my near-total lack of experience with marijuana, etc. (Had that adventure been about Heinrich, the Angel of Jaegermeister on the other hand...) Anyway, this adventure seed was good. And while I obvioulsy can't speak for anyone else, seeds are more useful & interesting to me than fully - -fleshed out adventures which I'll have to chop and channel anyway. So, this is a vote of confidence, Rob. Keep posting. Ken Coble cryptic@email.unc.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 11:03:11 -0500 (EST) From: Don Fnordlioni Subject: Re: IN> IN: Off subject, but important. It's off topic, and unwelcome, especially due to this little line here: On Tue, 25 Feb 1997, J. S. Cardella wrote: > >comments, responses MUST be received by February 13, 1997. So, unless you're a time traveller, this won't do you a lick of good. Please don't forward chain letters to mailing lists, especially when they've got nine hundred .sigs attached. ------------------------------ Date: 25 Feb 1997 16:18:18 U From: "Andy Butcher" Subject: IN> The Four Horsemen Subject: Time: 15:55 OFFICE MEMO The Four Horsemen Date: 25/02/97 >Just wanted to pipe up about the 4 Horsemen -- they're >sent to Earth from God, remember. Deep down, they're >good guys, doing God's work. Hmm. Only in as much as the Devil himself is doing God's work. They're harbingers of the Apocalypse. >(And my Bible gives them the roles of Conquest, War, >Commerce, and Death, which looks like Baal, Michael, >Marcus, and Saminga.) Double hmm. I can only assume your Bible is one of those wacky American ones ;) Classically, the four are classically, War, Famine, Disease, and their leader, Death. Andy Butcher ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 10:35:20 -0600 From: dpearcy@io.com (Derek Patton Pearcy) Subject: IN> Saints Here's a nice link. www.catholic.org/saints/saints.html Derek ------------------------------ Date: 25 Feb 1997 16:45:03 U From: "Andy Butcher" Subject: Re: IN> Michael/Lucifer Subject: Time: 16:17 OFFICE MEMO RE>IN> Michael/Lucifer Date: 25/02/97 >Sure the angels could win hands down pretty quickly... Erm, where did you get this idea from? In Nomine makes it fairly clear that the forces of Hell currently outnumber the forces of Heaven, but the average Demon isn't as strong as the average Angel. The result is an uneasy stalemate, with neither side confident of victory (there are other possible reasons why the two sides haven't kicked off a 'final battle', of course, but this is the only one that's really clearly stated in the book). >Evil is not cool. On the contrary, Evil can be _very_ cool - it's all a matter of perspective ;) Andy Butcher arcane - the roleplaying magazine - ----------------------------------------------------- abutcher@futurenet.co.uk http://www.futurenet.co.uk/ - ----------------------------------------------------- There are only twenty-seven ways to kill somebody with a toothbrush... Rorschach knew them all. ------------------------------ Date: 25 Feb 1997 16:50:18 U From: "Andy Butcher" Subject: IN> Negative check digits... Subject: Time: 16:28 OFFICE MEMO Negative check digits... Date: 25/02/97 Okay, I got another question ;) How do people deal with check digit modifiers that would reduce the number to zero or below? Does the check digit have a minimum value of one, or does the 'successful' roll actually fail? For example, say a Seraph is using his resonance to determine the truth of a recorded statement, and gets a check digit of 2. This is then subject to a -2 modifier because it's a recording... Andy Butcher arcane - the roleplaying magazine - ----------------------------------------------------- abutcher@futurenet.co.uk http://www.futurenet.co.uk/ - ----------------------------------------------------- There are only twenty-seven ways to kill somebody with a toothbrush... Rorschach knew them all. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 12:21:39 +0000 From: "J. S. Cardella" Subject: IN> RE: Off subject, but important Before I get flamed, let me add that the deadline was extended to March 1st, due to technical considerations. The FCC will still hear from you. Make your voice count. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Joel Cardella "Chinese food IS my life" http://www.io.com/~dronf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 12:00:55 -0500 (EST) From: Don Fnordlioni Subject: Re: IN> The Four Horsemen On 25 Feb 1997, Andy Butcher wrote: > Hmm. Only in as much as the Devil himself is doing God's work. They're > harbingers of the Apocalypse. And who says the Apocalypse is a bad thing? It's a time when evil is destroyed, the Messiah returns, and all good christians go to their great reward to live happily ever after. Only us pagans and heretics should fear the Apocalypse. > Double hmm. I can only assume your Bible is one of those wacky American > ones ;) Well, seeing how I'm an American in America, probably. Lesse, it's.... King James, published by The World Publishing Company, Cleveland and New York. The verses mentioning the horsemen are Rev 6:1-8, and only Death is actually named. Which bible gives the more popular names? | Don Fnordlioni | donfnord@pitt.edu | http://www.pitt.edu/~donfnord | Please use PGP encryption when writing Finger donfnord@pitt.edu for key ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 97 11:31:50 -0600 From: Deathdog Subject: Re: IN> Michael/Lucifer >>Sure the angels could win hands down pretty quickly... > >Erm, where did you get this idea from? In Nomine makes it fairly clear >that the forces of Hell currently outnumber the forces of Heaven, but the >average Demon isn't as strong as the average Angel. The result is an >uneasy stalemate, with neither side confident of victory (there are other >possible reasons why the two sides haven't kicked off a 'final battle', of >course, but this is the only one that's really clearly stated in the book). Considering the fact that the Angels also have God on their side, I'm sure they'd win easily. Maybe the whole point is that God isn't ready for Heaven to win yet, which is why He doesn't interfere. In that case, yeah, it's probably a stalemate to some degree. The point to remember most is that each angel is an individual, some with every demon, and they might have their *own* agendas that have nothing to do with the War. I think this is very apparent just skimming over the book. >>Evil is not cool. > >On the contrary, Evil can be _very_ cool - it's all a matter of >perspective ;) No, evil is not cool. It looks cool sometimes, just like your friends looked cool smoking when you were a kid. Your perception of things is not Truth. Just ask God, or Plato for that matter. This kind of attitude is why Lucifer has so many allies...sometimes doing good is just a pain in the ass :) *********************************************************** Brad Everman aka Deathdog, Mac programmer & Grammy-Winning Rap Artist "Friday, February 21st: Downloading of pornography on the internet drops by over fifty percent as millions flock to see The Empire Strikes Back" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 97 11:43:17 -0600 From: Deathdog Subject: Re: IN> Negative check digits... >Okay, I got another question ;) > >How do people deal with check digit modifiers that would reduce the number >to zero or below? Does the check digit have a minimum value of one, or >does the 'successful' roll actually fail? > >For example, say a Seraph is using his resonance to determine the truth of >a recorded statement, and gets a check digit of 2. This is then subject to >a -2 modifier because it's a recording... I think I'll answer my first rules questions ever. Amazing, eh? Well, I consider a scuccess a success, no matter what. You could have a check digit mod of -234879634 and if you succeed, you should still benefit somewhat. Maybe in the case you describe, with the resulting 0 on the die, I'd flip a coin and tell him the answer on heads or something, since 1 is required for a definitive answer. On tails, I'd say "You can't really tell either way". With a negative value, say something like "You're not too sure because the tape seems to be old. Maybe if you listened a bit longer you could discern truth or not". In this case, the Angel succeeds, but can't get any information. In both cases, with 0 and negative numbers, I'd let them try again in a short period of time. Just remember that Seraphim kinda "feel" truth anyways, like we can feel sunlight. It is something that isn't tangible, per se, but can still be sensed. I guess the whole point is, ever die roll is a different circumstance, so use good judgement. I'm the worst person to use the mechanics I described above, because I hate dice :) More than likely, I'd make something up to fit the story. If it makes it more interesting that the character doesn't know the lie, then he doesn't know for now. Noone would ever complain about an exciting and entertaining game that had a few caveats. (Well, if they did, they should go play Squad Leader or Star Fleet Battles) *********************************************************** Brad Everman aka Deathdog, Mac programmer & Grammy-Winning Rap Artist "Friday, February 21st: Downloading of pornography on the internet drops by over fifty percent as millions flock to see The Empire Strikes Back" ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #39 ****************************** The material here is (C) 1996 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.