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in_nomine-digest      Thursday, February 27 1997      Volume 01 : Number 044



In this digest:

   Re: IN> Michael/Lucifer
   Re: IN> The Four Horsemen
   Re: IN> Who's Who In Hell: Sitri, Demon of Homosexuality
   IN> Re: Coolness (and Bad Boy Origins)
   IN> Check my math
   IN> First Questions
   IN> Re: Re: List Management
   IN> Malakim Dissonance
   IN> Lilim Hearts
   IN> What's this list
   IN> Discerning Metaphysics
   Re: IN> Malakim Dissonance
   Re: IN> Character sheets
   IN> Resisting Attacks Vs Dodging Attacks
   IN> A Question of Cool
   IN> Gilligan is Satan
   IN> No ad hominem, ever.
   IN> The Four Horsemen
   IN> Coolness
   IN> Eli Impersonators
   Re: IN> A Question of Cool
   Re: IN> The Four Horsemen
   Re: IN> Coolness ;)
   Re: IN> Re: Re: List Management
   IN> Adventure Seed
   IN> Resistance is Futile
   Re: IN> Coolness ;)
   Re: IN> Adventure Seed
   Re: IN> A Question of Cool
   Re: IN> Character sheets
   IN> Eli's Rite: Was: Sitri, Demon of Homosexuality
   IN> Re: Coolness of Evil

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 97 17:40:21 -0600 (CST)
From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting)
Subject: Re: IN> Michael/Lucifer

At 04:39 PM 2/26/97 CET, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote:
>At 08:19 26.02.1997 -0600, you wrote:
>>>Considering the fact that the Angels also have God on their side,
>>
>>As did Lucifer, of course. It's not a given that God will support
>>the Angels in their every endeavor.
>>
>>>I'm sure they'd win easily. Maybe the whole point is that God isn't ready
for 
>>>Heaven to win yet, which is why He doesn't interfere. 
>[Snip]
>
>If I may quote a old but competent source:
>the "maleum maleficarum" or "witch hammer"

That's "Hammer of Evil".

>a book about the knowledge of witches, possessed beeings and demons and also
>then their judgement (with case-studies)
>written by two inquisitiors/monks in the 15th century as a kind
>of handbook for their fellow witchhunters.
>
>About the question of all these evil demons and evil men in the world
>they say:
>
>"God does not allow evil,
>God does not forbid evil either,
>God does allow the posibility of evil."
>
>Wich also is stated in modern theology as the freedom of mankind
>to choose between good and evil.
>Perhaps does God allow also the angels and demons to choose ?

Big question among the Angels. 

Kestrel

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 97 17:40:42 -0600 (CST)
From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting)
Subject: Re: IN> The Four Horsemen

At 12:11 PM 2/26/97 -0500, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote:
>On Wed, 26 Feb 1997, Andrew Getting wrote:
>
>> >Only us pagans and heretics should fear the Apocalypse.
>> 
>> If you buy into standard Christian propaganda, we're looking at
>> a minimum of 2/3 of the world going to Hell for all eternity, without
>> including less-than-decent Christians. Any truly good Christian
>> will think of the Apocalypse as a bad thing for this reason.
>
>Eh. I think you're mixing definitions of "Christian" with the upper-case
>version (a devotee of Jesus, the Bible, and associated teachings), and the
>lower-case version (a generally good person).

I'm not. I have a low opinion of Christians in general, particularly
the ones who proclaim it from the mountaintops.

>> Most don't, but they're assigned by implication and description.
>> BTW, could you describe Commerce in your Bible? It may
>> actually be Famine...
>
>Nod -- I know he's called Famine popularly, but the way I read it, it
>looks more like Commerce (on a black horse): "...and he that sat on him
>had a pair of balances in his hand ... A measure of wheat for a penny, and
>three measures of barley for a penny" Sounds like standard weights and
>prices to me -- a measure is about 1/5 of a U.S. bushel, and a penny is
>worth about a day's wages. This is just a guess, though, about the worth
>of a measure of wheat and barely, but it doesn't sound like a shortage.

It's to suggest scarcity. Those prices were unheard of in those times.

Kestrel

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 97 17:40:44 -0600 (CST)
From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting)
Subject: Re: IN> Who's Who In Hell: Sitri, Demon of Homosexuality

At 12:53 PM 2/26/97 -0500, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote:
>At 1:04 PM -0500 2/25/97, IQJasonS@aol.com wrote:
>>"Good up until that last line. Novalis (aka The Hippy Angel) probably
>>wouldn't see anything wrong with it. Free Love's one of her ideals,
>>at least by implication."
>>
>>Free love, absolutely. But, as the Patron of Flowers and Fertility, I think
>>that her darkest secret might be a hang-up about gender roles. Stamen and
>>pistil, men and women.
>
>Novalis isn't the Patron of Fertility -- Eli is. Creation, remember?
>That's why consensual sex generates Essence for his servitors, and
>you get a bonus to call him if you have *unused* contraceptives.

I thought it was because he was going to use them ;>

>If anything, Eli himself might be the one who would be slightly 
>concerned over an angel with a Word that does not promote genetic
>reproduction.

What I initially thought, but Eli doesn't have a problem with many
things.

Kestrel

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 19:16:26 -0500 (EST)
From: rbarrett@dept.english.upenn.edu (Robert Barrett)
Subject: IN> Re: Coolness (and Bad Boy Origins)

Re: the comment that James Dean is the source of modern "Bad Boy-ism"

It's actually fun to go further back and consider folks like Byron ("mad,
bad, and dangerous to know," yet he was the Romantic equivalent of a rock
star).

In fact, (and here's where I get back on topic), one might suggest that
the archetypal "cool bad boy" in English culture/literature is Milton's
Satan, epic hero yet oh so evil (he even gets a moment of angst, perched
outside the Garden of Eden).

Best,

Rob

- -- 
Robert W. Barrett, Jr. * E-mail: rbarrett@dept.english.upenn.edu * World
Wide Web: http://dept.english.upenn.edu/~rbarrett/index.html * "He ran,"
the unicorn said.  "You must never run from anything immortal.  It
attracts their attention." - Peter S. Beagle, _The Last Unicorn_, 1968

------------------------------

Date: 26 Feb 97 20:09:08 EST
From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: IN> Check my math

>John K:
>
>>Moriah:
>>  Celestials buy a Role (listed as Role/x).  The Level of the Role times the
>> Status Level divided by 2 [(Role Level * Status Level) / 2] is the correct
>> price of both (Status Level is 'paid for' when one buys the Role).  Keep in
>> mind that this formula also gives the first level of Status free.
>
>        I posted this to the web-errata page, but a note should be
>made that you round up, not down after dividing.  It says so
>on the Servant section, but doesn't mention it on the Role
>section.

   Yes, round *up*!  Thanks.

Peace,

Moriah <time to round up the Usual Suspects>

------------------------------

Date: 26 Feb 97 20:09:15 EST
From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: IN> First Questions

>Marco Lambert:
>1. Songs: Are there more to come ? I miss something to control humans or at
>least try to make posthypnotic commands or stuff like that, usually from the
>parapsychology departement.

   Sure there are more to come, though, I can't guarantee that they'll be of 
the kind you're looking for.  Feel free to make up and use your own home 
brewed Songs.


>2. New Bands of demons: I miss a little bit my "favorit" demons the incubi 
>and succubi. What would they be like ? Or are this just human descriptions 
>for some of the servitors of Andrealphus ?

   As mentioned, you can make some of the Lilim or servants of Andrealphus or 
Beleth serve this role.  But we have no plans for those Bands to appear in 
the future (not that they never will....).  Again, feel free to create your 
own Bands for your game.


>3. Missing demon princes: In the german issue are for example demon princes
>for Cold, Ocean and Illness/Plagues. will they be introduced in the following
>material ?
   
   Some were cut for length reasons, others don't fit in the slightly 
restructured universe of IN NOMINE, others will appear in later supplements.  
Although, there are no plans to introduce the ones you mentioned this year, 
unless they are featured in an adventure (yet to be conceived, much less 
written).  Perhaps they'll appear in 'Pyramid' magazine.


Ruhe,

Moriah

------------------------------

Date: 26 Feb 97 20:09:23 EST
From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: IN> Re: Re: List Management

>Walter Milliken:
>
>>Moriah:
>>   It is added automagically.  Now, if we can get people to stop adding the 
>>RE: to the subject line... we all know that a subject line tells us what 
>the message is in REgards to.
>
>Well, *people* don't usually add it -- it's considered proper netiquette
>in email reply subject headers, and most mailreaders add it
>automatically when the user does a reply operation.  I suspect editing
>it out is painful in a lot of mailreaders....


   People don't expand headers, programs expand headers.  ;)

   It's proper etiquette in business memos to put the subject of the memo on 
top of the memo to alert the reader what the memo is about.  Usually, the 
title of the subject field is 'Re:', with the subject following.  So, the 
initial memo has a 'Re: This Subject' line.  Replies use the same line, 'Re: 
This Subject'.  The do not reply back, 'Re: Re: This Subject', nor 'Re: Sub: 
This Subject'.

   As part of Internet mail, the subject line prefix is 'Subject:', so, the 
person initiating a piece of email will have 'Subject: This Subject' in the 
header of the email.  Replies should have the same header, namely, 'Subject: 
This Subject' and *not* 'Subject: Re: This Subject'.  

   This makes sorting email by title totally impractical.

   Not all conventions turn out to be logical, practical, or proper 
etiquette.  There are email programs which don't even give adding the 'Re:' 
as an option.  If people find that their emailing program provides the option 
of shutting the 'Re:' off, they should, IMO.  I understand that some programs 
make that impossible or nigh impractical -- those users should complain to 
the programmers and ask for an update that stops the practice or, at least, 
gives the user the option of shutting it off.

   The *request* (and not a demand) to shut of the Re:'s will be in the list 
FAQ as a preferred SOP.  I'll even say 'please' :)

Peace,

Moriah

------------------------------

Date: 26 Feb 97 20:09:46 EST
From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: IN> Malakim Dissonance

>Robert Wolff:
>What I'd like to know is, do Malakites, when they do something 
>'anti-resonance', then just add another oath instead of gaining a 
>point of dissonance?  That's the way we've been playing.  

   Malakim don't Fall.  However, they do gain Dissonance everytime they act 
dishonorably, especially by breaking one of their oaths.  If they succeed on 
their Dissonance roll, they just get one more note of Dissonance.

   If they fail a Dissonance roll the first time, they become Outcast (and 
gain another note of Dissonance).  Yes, they can be Outcast.  

   For each time an *Outcast* Malakite fails a Dissonance roll, they gain 
another note of Dissonance *and* a level of Discord.  While Malakim can't 
Fall mechanically, who knows, maybe some day an Outcast Malakite with 
Dissonance and Discord coming out the wazoo will *choose* to Fall.

   For that reason, Outcast Malakim are on the top of Dominic's and 
Laurence's hit list.  As well as on the top of every other Malakite hit 
list.  Good luck!

   Taking another oath for failing a Dissonance roll just doesn't seem right 
to me, even as a home brew option.  But, to each their own...  :)

Peace,

Moriah

------------------------------

Date: 26 Feb 97 20:09:35 EST
From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: IN> Lilim Hearts

>Aaron Harmon:
>So would a lilim have her heart in the same manner as a servitor of Eli?

   Lilim serving a Superior would have a Superior-forged heart in some 
Principality of Hell.

   Lilim who are 'free' don't have a heart <grin>.  They could, if a Superior 
or Lilith were willing, trade a favor in order to have that Superior create 
and keep a heart for her.  Creating hearts is a heavy Essence expense on the 
part of a Superior, and they don't do it lightly.  This would be 6 levels of 
Geas for sure.  And another 6 levels of Geas in payment to have the Superior 
'liberate' her heart and let her put it where she wants.

Peace,

Moriah

------------------------------

Date: 26 Feb 97 20:09:52 EST
From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: IN> What's this list

>DeltaS
>However, I have my own ideas about why a *cough* priest has taken such a
>great intrest in the game, even becoming the line editor.  Hrm... could it
>be part of some nefarious plot by a celestial to get folks to actually
>*gasp* read the bible, and think about theological matters?
>...
>   -DeltaS - who is on to you, Moriah... ;)
>    The Angel of Posturing, Cheribum of Janus.   Rite: Soul of the Poseur

   The good Seraph that I am will only say, "You seem to think there is a 
conspiracy everywhere." <bat lashes>

Peace,

Moriah <Angel of Line Editing, Seraph Nuncio of Gaming, whose Word is 
sometimes not the whole story>

------------------------------

Date: 26 Feb 97 20:10:00 EST
From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: IN> Discerning Metaphysics

>Walter Milliken:
>Obviously, then, one way to find out exactly what you're dealing with is
>to somehow force it to go celestial.

   Good luck trying that.  ;)


>Incidentally, this brings up an ancillary question: can characters with
>the Seraph of Yves servitor attunement (who can tell the "true name" of
>a person they touch) determine the true nature of a being?  It seems
>that the ability to discern a "true name" likely means hearing the
>thread of the Symphony associated with the person.
>
>Certainly it seems plausible that you could tell the Word of a
>Word-bound celestial, at the least, and that it might be possible to
>determine angel/human/demon and Choir/Band, though not probably not
>Superior (unless the celestial is close to being Word-bound to a Word
>related to the Superior's).

   Short answer: sure.

   Longer answer:  If you have several possible outcomes of an action or 
ability which can be ranked from less helpful to more helpful, let the Check 
Digit be your guide.


>>f) when an Angel fall, I guess his/her celestial appearance change, what
>>cause that change? can it be somewhat controlled?
>>
>>   Metaphysics.  Angel are creatures whose *nature* is attuned to some part 
>>of the Symphony - their Choir, their Superior, their own Word.  By 
>rejecting >that nature, their Resonances change... they strike a new chord.  
>Their >outward appearance reflects the Resonance of a Dark Angel.
>
>This implies that Outcasts probably ought to have a "tainted" angelic
>celestial form that reflects the fact that they've sort of partically
>Fallen.  Renegades are another case, depending on whether they're just
>running away from their former Prince, or actually on the road to
>Redemption.

   That 'taint' is called Dissonance.  An actual break in the Symphony is 
Discord.  Changing Sides can metaphorically be referred to as changing 
chords, key, mode, or you start playing a whole new theme -- for angels, you 
hook up with a new band, sort of like Paul McCartney and Wings*.

Peace,

Moriah 

* Q.V. Yoko Ono, Demon of Pushy Girlfriends, Baroness of Factions

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 18:26:09 +0000
From: rob@v-wave.com (JODI SHOOK)
Subject: Re: IN> Malakim Dissonance

>    Malakim don't Fall.  However, they do gain Dissonance everytime they act 
> dishonorably, especially by breaking one of their oaths.  If they succeed on 
> their Dissonance roll, they just get one more note of Dissonance.
(snip)
>    Taking another oath for failing a Dissonance roll just doesn't seem right 
> to me, even as a home brew option.  But, to each their own...  :)

THANK YOU!!

I'd been having this discussion with some of my players, and I'm 
happy to see that the Canon goes more along the lines of my original 
interpretation.  

I guess the problem was the emphasis on " Malakites don't Fall."

Instead, they just become Outcast, and then shortly thereafter get 
"cleaned up".  (i.e. they just disappear, as more honourable malakim 
wipe clean the stain on their choir....)

I'm very grateful for the rules clarification.

I think I'll still use the oaths I'd been suggesting, though, as
role-playing cues.  I like them, and I think they still make Malakim
more interesting to play... 

Again, Moriah,... for this, much thanks!
Sincerely,

Rob Wolff / Bodhi

rob@v-wave.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:35:21 -0500
From: Plki <plki@randomc.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Character sheets

J. S. Cardella wrote:
> 
> The official character sheets are up on the web.
> 
> http://www.io.com/sjgames/in-nomine/new.html
> 
> This is the What's New page, with a link to the in_char_sheet.gif
> 
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Joel Cardella  "Chinese food IS my life"
> http://www.io.com/~dronf

Unfortunately, this character sheet is messed up.  
The demon half is all screwy...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:51:06 -0500
From: Plki <plki@randomc.com>
Subject: IN> Resisting Attacks Vs Dodging Attacks

How does one resist an attack?  Around the rules for dodging it mentions
resisting attacks, and the fact that one cannot both resist and dodge. 
But it never exactly explains what resisting is. (excuse my poor
sentence structure.. i am a product of public education).  At any rate I
was wondering if someone could please explain what the difference
between dodging and resisting is and how exactly the resisting mechanics
work.

Also: errata notice... Page 66 refers to weapon charts on pages 70-71..
In reality, these charts are on page 65.

Didn't see it on the errata list... i'll also post that to the web page.

------------------------------

Date: 26 Feb 97 21:15:43 EST
From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: IN> A Question of Cool

>John Maurer:
>I think IQJason must live in...

   Jason should not be the subject of a post.  You may freely dissect and 
rebut all of Jason's ideas, but please leave Jason out of it.

   My apologies for not having a list FAQ ready yet which outlines such 
guidelines of list protocol.

Peace,

Moriah <but reading 500 posts a week makes writing FAQs difficult <sigh>>
List Manager/Owner and IN NOMINE Line Editor

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:12:01 -0600
From: Russ Sharek <morpheus@dare2dream.com>
Subject: IN> Gilligan is Satan

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>Gilligan.
>
>Gilligan is SATAN.  Think about it.
>
>                        Submitted by: Bruce Guthrie @ nmaa.org

> -- fish, with apologies.

Gilligan, Demon Prince of Being Lost, special rite the Three Hour Tour?

I don't know, sounds (ahem) fishy to me ;-)

Cheers,
MORPHEUS
- -The De-lurking Dreamgod.
<shameless plug>
*****************************************
The Morpheus Company
morpheus@dare2dream.com
http://www.dare2dream.com
5521 Greenville Ave. Suite #104-434
Dallas, TX 75206
(214) 821-4024, 24 Hours a Day.

		DARE TO DREAM
*****************************************
</shameless plug>

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------------------------------

Date: 26 Feb 97 21:16:01 EST
From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: IN> No ad hominem, ever.

>John Maurer:
>Perhaps it is ad hominem, but not all ad hominem attacks are unjustified.

   That is where you are dead wrong.  I was hoping that the requests for you 
to stop the ad hominem would have been enough for you to stop.  I realize 
that my official post asking you to stop is getting to you after your 
continuation of the ad hominem, so I will cut you some slack.  But one more 
flame and you will be removed from the list.

   Do not debate this decision in public.  Send me email if you disagree, but 
I doubt you'll be able to change my mind.

   I ask the other members of the list to let me handle this and not to waste 
the bandwidth.  Thanks.

Peace,

Moriah <moriah@io.com>
List Owner/Manager
IN NOMINE Line Editor

------------------------------

Date: 26 Feb 97 21:16:06 EST
From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: IN> The Four Horsemen

>Kestrel:
>I'm not. I have a low opinion of Christians in general, particularly
>the ones who proclaim it from the mountaintops.

<hurt sad face -- hung head, kicking pebbles as he walks down the 
mountainside>


>It's to suggest scarcity. Those prices were unheard of in those times.

   Exactly -- and this leads to Famine.


Peace,

Moriah <named after a mountain>

------------------------------

Date: 26 Feb 97 21:16:11 EST
From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: IN> Coolness

>Kestrel:
>Dominic ferrets out Angelic Heresy, but works alongside Asmodeus as well.

   I wouldn't say 'alongside'.  'In conjunction with' would be better.  To 
get back to the Cold War metaphor, this is like the U.S. and the Soviet Union 
working together to break up a criminal terrorist ring.  Renegades are the 
ememy of Both Sides.  While Outcasts are a challenge for the diabolicals.

Peace,

Moriah

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 97 20:53:09 -0600 (CST)
From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting)
Subject: IN> Eli Impersonators

At 04:33 PM 2/26/97 -0600, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote:

>Oops da Ogre, who still thinks that the picture of the demon in the
>back (p 206, I think) looks a hell of a lot like Eli.

206 has a lovely picture of an index, Oops, try again ;>

Kestrel

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 97 20:53:39 -0600 (CST)
From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting)
Subject: Re: IN> A Question of Cool

At 03:35 PM 2/26/97 -0500, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote:
>At 10:19 AM 2/26/97 -0500, IQJason@aol.com wrote:
>
>>"So you say.  Don't you find it the least bit curious that all the people
>>you mentioned as cool were unrepentent scoundrals?"
>
>I have noticed a strange trend in your posts Jason to be rigidly moralistic.
>You have been this way on the Angel of Homosexuality.  I don't think
>Novalis's 'deep dark secret' is that she is a homophobe, I think it may be
>yours.  Now you are getting into this entire 'evil is cool' argument.  Are
>you some sort of secret agent for Dominic or something?

<whack!>

Novalis may, indeed, be a homophobe for all we know. Everything
said is, at best, speculation. Saying Jason is is a REAL BAD THING.
Worse, of course, is saying he works for that uptight dink Dominic.
If he thinks Novalis may not like gays, we can argue, but neither of
us can win. If he thinks that evil isn't cool, he can do likewise; cool
is a matter of opinion.

>>Well, panache helps -- "cool" requires competence *and* detachment. But it's
>>possible to be cool and not be evil. It's just easier, by its nature for evil
>>to be cool. 
>
>I am not certain that is true.  This is the same argument that says that all
>Paladins have to be overbearing, naieve, and often foolish.  I would say
>that often the 'good' folk are just as cool as the evil ones.  FBI agents
>are cool (aren't they?) The president is pretty cool (Although he might be
>evil...) Firemen and lifeguards are cool. 

Hmm. Wouldn't say so much about the Pres, and you'll get more debate
about the FBI being cool here than you would about him! This is
an SJGame, after all ;>

>>Lucifer is Cool, Dominic is not.
>>
>>Nonsense. Dominic is *very* cool. He's The Man. Laurence, on the other hand,
>>is not cool.
>
>Badmouthing your superior may be a quick trip to dissonance-ville IQJason..
>Maybe you don't work for Dominic afterall, or you're gutsy. :)
>
>Laurence is most CERTAINLY cool. And let those who disagree get stabbed by
>sharp pointy things.  He's the fresh young face that everyone in the upper
>echelon is talking about.  All those other Archangels are old and crusty.

Laurence has to have Michael bail him out. What was
that you said about naive Paladins? ;>

Also, if Dominic and Laurence are so cool, why did they persecute
Gabriel rather than Yves over that whole Islam thing?

>>"Novalis is an exception  in that she's cool, but she is also into
>>that free love thing and from all of the postings, drug culture."
>>
>>Novalis' coolness is overrated. Behind that hippie exterior is something more
>>shrewd: remember, she's managed to make her word into a symbol of Peace and
>>Love. Not bad for a handful of shrubbery. :) 
>
>I never saw Novalis as sinister until I read this.  Suddenly she is
>frightening.  Also I notice IQJason is now bashing drugs.  Should I name the
>ammount of people I know who are dying of AIDS and whom Marijuana makes
>their lives bearbable?  How about the friend who had a cyst on his eye and
>the Doctor used COCAINE as a local anesthetic! I think IQJason must live in
>that quiet part of heaven that everyone else has to tiptoe arround lest the
>people inside learn that other people made it in as well...

Should I name the people who die from heroin and crack every year?
Here, you're deliberately slanting your argument. It's like saying
the DEA is against aspirin.

Kestrel

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 21:21:07 -0600 (CST)
From: "Q (not from Star Trek)" <Scott.E.Meyer@wheaton.edu>
Subject: Re: IN> The Four Horsemen

On Wed, 26 Feb 1997, Andrew Getting wrote:
[snip stuff]
> 
> I'm not. I have a low opinion of Christians in general, particularly
> the ones who proclaim it from the mountaintops.
> 

I agree, and I'm one of 'em.

- -Q


- ---------------------------------------
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human
stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
                            -Albert Einstein

Scott "Q" Meyer
Scott.E.Meyer@wheaton.edu
http://johnh.wheaton.edu/~smeyer

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 22:21:07 -0500
From: Dave Conrad <nightman@io.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Coolness ;)

Hi-

	I'm not sure if it's my mail program (Netsacape) or something on your
end, but your messages come accross as being many screenlengths wide. 
Could you check to see if you have your message width set at a high
number of coulumns?  I like what you have to say, but have a hard time
reading it.

Thanks!
- -- 
Dave C.
iN*T*x
"To break the rules is to break the spell" - C. Lasch

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 23:18:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Don Fnordlioni <donfnord+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: IN> Re: Re: List Management

On 26 Feb 1997, Moriah - Steve Jackson Games wrote:

>    This makes sorting email by title totally impractical.

Welp, maybe compuserve is behind the times, but every reliable unix mail
reader will know that "Subject: Blah" is part of the same thread as
"Subject: Re: Blah." Furthermore, most good unix mailers will not add an
extra Re: before an existing Re:. And I haven't seen excessive Re:'s in
any of the longer threads here, anyway.

Course, all this could be taken care of, if ya'll vote yes on
rec.games.in-nomine.... grin. No more overflowing mailboxes, yay.

|  Don Fnordlioni  | donfnord@pitt.edu |  http://www.pitt.edu/~donfnord  |
Please use PGP encryption when writing    Finger donfnord@pitt.edu for key

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 00:47:28 +0000
From: dronf@io.com
Subject: IN> Adventure Seed

Yet another idea from the annals of my mind...

===========================================================

A Scottish scientist has successfully cloned a sheep.

This happens much to the dismay of Jean but to the delight of Vapula.
In fact, Jean, seeing the direction the scientist was heading, was
ready to cut him off when Yves stepped in. 

"It is his destiny," said Yves. "Once he has completed this thing, you
may have him. But not before."

Jean was furious, absolutely livid. But he acquiesed to Yves Word, and
had his own Servitors standing by to replace the scientist when Yves
gave the signal. They will use a semi-permanent variation of the Song
of Form, will replace the scientist, then somehow continue his
research. The imposter will find some way discredit his work, and the
sheep clone will be found inviable. Then the entire project will lose
funding and be dumped.

Now, Vapula is quite concerned about Jean's lackluster attitude toward
the whole situation. He begins to think that Jean is going to make an
attempt on the scientist, (doing exactly what Jean is planning to do).
But he is nervous about Jean's inaction. So he sends his own agents to
intercept the Scottsman before Jean can make a move. 

[At some point along this road, the PC's have entered the story.]

The PC's, Jean's Servitors, and Vapula's agents all get to the
laboratory at more or less the same time. They find a dazed and
confused guard there, who tells them that the scientist is gone.

Guard: "Three guys in Halloween masks came and nabbed him. I tried to
stop 'em, but...I dunno. I guess I fell asleep, or something..."

PCs: "Halloween masks? What did they look like?"

Guard: "Funny...they were all dressed like the Devil. Ya know, horns &
stuff."

Enter Jean and/or Vapula (metaphorically, of course). Although the
PC's may work for any Superior (Infernal or Divine), they are told
they need to find the scientist NOW. And they need to find out who
these "Halloween masked guys" are, as if they didn't already know.

Luckily for them, the guard remembers a detail. In his dazed state, he
heard them talking about something called "eesluh duh leebray".

Behind the scenes: The scientist has been nabbed by a group of
Renegade demons. They have a theory: if this guy can clone sheep, he
is not far from cloning humans. They now have a source of unlimited
human vessels for which they don't have to use their own Essence to
craft. Not using their own Essence means not betraying their
positions. Eternal life, as it were.

The demons have their own interesting story. It seems that there's an
underground network of Renegades. Perhaps 30 or so, in various guises
and enterprises, all around the world. This network is run, more or
less, by Richard DuChamp. He is a wealthy, ne'er do well gadabout,
with nothing better to do with his money than cause suffering unto
others. He accomplishes this by harboring and helping the Renegades. 

In turn, the Renegades provide him with entertainment. He has supplied
them with a remote lab and the equipment necessary to continue the
experimentation. He thinks that cloning is funny.

The remote site is an island near South America called Isla del Libre,
"Freedom Island". It is in a tropical zone, is about 600 square miles
total, and in very thick jungle overgrowth. Impossible to see anything
from the air. But hey, what's an adventure without a good jungle hike?

The Renegades will do whatever it takes to protect their identities,
even if it means killing the scientist (not by their own hands, of
course) and bailing out of the network. 

The scientist is really far away from cloning humans, but he isn't
letting them know it. He will play the game until he finds an avenue
of escape. He is sharp, alert but easily intimidated and overpowered.
He will do his best to stall them as long as possible.

============================================

"You connect the dots, you pick up the pieces..."
                 - William S, Burroughs

                                                                      
- ---------------------------------
Joel Cardella
"Chinese food IS my life"
http://www.io.com/~dronf

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 23:24:51 -0500 (EST)
From: rbarrett@dept.english.upenn.edu (Robert Barrett)
Subject: IN> Resistance is Futile

Someone asked about the reference to "resisting" on p. 66.  Well,
"resisting" is what you can do when faced with certain Songs and
Resonances.  Check the individual Song and Resonance descriptions to see
what you can resist and what you can't.

Rob

- -- 
Robert W. Barrett, Jr. * E-mail: rbarrett@dept.english.upenn.edu * World
Wide Web: http://dept.english.upenn.edu/~rbarrett/index.html * "He ran,"
the unicorn said.  "You must never run from anything immortal.  It
attracts their attention." - Peter S. Beagle, _The Last Unicorn_, 1968

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 22:48:23 -0600 (CST)
From: Niccolo Machiavelli <nightman@io.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Coolness ;)

Gack!  Sorry, but my last post wasn't meant for the whole list.


Dave C.

iN*T*x

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 21:59:51 +0000
From: "Bodhi" <rob@v-wave.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Adventure Seed

> A Scottish scientist has successfully cloned a sheep.
> 
Okay, first of all, I was trained as a genetic engineer, and spent 
more than my fair share of time doing various gene-splicing and 
cloning projects, before abandoning it to teach philosophy.

Therefore, I feel I'm in a particularly unique position, from which 
to say....

OOHH  YEAH!!!!!!    I LOVED THIS!!!!!!!

YOU, my friend, are an Avatar of Coolness!!!!
Sincerely,

Rob Wolff / Bodhi

rob@v-wave.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 00:28:09 -0600 (CST)
From: fish <awflower@midway.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Re: IN> A Question of Cool

On Wed, 26 Feb 1997, Andrew Getting wrote:

> Hmm. Wouldn't say so much about the Pres, and you'll get more debate
> about the FBI being cool here than you would about him! This is
> an SJGame, after all ;>

     As far as I know, SJG doesn't have any particular thing against the
FBI, unless they're guilty by association. It's the Secret Service that's
the Bad Guy...

> Also, if Dominic and Laurence are so cool, why did they persecute
> Gabriel rather than Yves over that whole Islam thing?

     Cool doesn't mean you're *right*, or even smart. Just that you're
cool.
     Not that has anything to do with the price of tea in china, but this
is a wasted post anyway, so I thought I'd point it out.

 -- fish.

| fish flowers (i don't exist!) ><>                          |\  |\  \  / | |
|                                                            |\  | >  \/  |/|
| awflower@midway.uchicago.edu, eidolon@io.com               |   |<   /\  |/|
| http://student-www.uchicago.edu/users/awflower/index.html  |   | \ /  \ | |

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 00:36:59 -0600 (CST)
From: fish <awflower@midway.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Re: IN> Character sheets

On Wed, 26 Feb 1997, Plki wrote:

> Unfortunately, this character sheet is messed up.  
> The demon half is all screwy...

     Yeah, it is (was, now) the 'prototype' posted a couple months ago on
the website. I already sent email pointing out the problem, and it should
be fixed now. [quick check] Yep, it is.
 
 -- fish.

| fish flowers (i don't exist!) ><>                          |\  |\  \  / | |
|                                                            |\  | >  \/  |/|
| awflower@midway.uchicago.edu, eidolon@io.com               |   |<   /\  |/|
| http://student-www.uchicago.edu/users/awflower/index.html  |   | \ /  \ | |

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 10:02:03 +0000 ()
From: "David.Evans" <ddu95183@ccsun.strath.ac.uk>
Subject: IN> Eli's Rite: Was: Sitri, Demon of Homosexuality

> 
> At 12:53 PM 2/26/97 -0500, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote:
> >At 1:04 PM -0500 2/25/97, IQJasonS@aol.com wrote:
> >>"Good up until that last line. Novalis (aka The Hippy Angel) probably
> >>wouldn't see anything wrong with it. Free Love's one of her ideals,
> >>at least by implication."
> >>
> >>Free love, absolutely. But, as the Patron of Flowers and Fertility, I think
> >>that her darkest secret might be a hang-up about gender roles. Stamen and
> >>pistil, men and women.
> >
> >Novalis isn't the Patron of Fertility -- Eli is. Creation, remember?
> >That's why consensual sex generates Essence for his servitors, and
> >you get a bonus to call him if you have *unused* contraceptives.
> 
> I thought it was because he was going to use them ;>
> 
> >If anything, Eli himself might be the one who would be slightly 
> >concerned over an angel with a Word that does not promote genetic
> >reproduction.
> 
> What I initially thought, but Eli doesn't have a problem with many
> things.
> 
> Kestrel
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 07:37:25 -0500 (EST)
From: William Reed <wmreed@freenet.columbus.oh.us>
Subject: IN> Re: Coolness of Evil

This thread has piqued my interest, as it is the main reason I have been
reading the list for the past week.

As it fell to me to be the GM for our IN game, I am trying to figure out
just what motivates the Diabolicals.  I refuse to believe in doing eveil
simply and exclusively for the sake of evil, as it tends to leave me with
2 dimensional characters as adversaries.  When I run other RPGs I always
try to take the point of view that the "evil" characters never look at
themselves as the evil ones, but instead have such a drastically different
view of what is an exceptable way to achieve their goals that those of us
who consider ourselves "good" find them to be evil.

In any case, I don't want to spend a lot of time arguing about what evil
and good are, what I would like is some of your thoughts about the
Ultimate goals of Lucifer.  What is ultimately to be gained?  How does
"doing evil" stack the oddds in favor of the diabolicals winning the War? 
Some of my ideas, though admitedly not fully though out are:

- - Tempting humans to evil weighs the scale towards their going to Hell, and
the more sould in hell...hmmm, what is the REAL advantage of that?  They
don't become demons, do they?

- - The Ultimate goal of the War is control of the Earth.  When all the
humans are gone, the Side with the most souls gets the Prize.

- - Lucifer wants to be worshipped by more people than God.  The more
worshippers, the more powerful the Celestial is.  Power is Lucifer's
Ultimate Goal.

- - Lucifer believes that he was not credited for the work he did in the
Creation.  This was the "arguement" that led to the original Fall.  Now
he's out to destroy that which he was denied credit for, and to hurt God. 
His most effective way of doing this is to turn as many away from God as
possible.  My only problem with this one is, why hasn't God just smitten
him, if it's a personal thing?

Any help?  What are the Diabolicals trying to acheive in the end?

Thanks,

Bill Reed
wmreed@freenet.columbus.oh.us

"You may be big, but I'm small!" - Daffy Duck to the Shropshire Slasher

------------------------------

End of in_nomine-digest V1 #44
******************************

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All rights reserved.