From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Mar 10 12:32:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by deliverator.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA09624; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 12:31:09 -0600 (CST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA21067 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 11:40:01 -0600 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 11:40:01 -0600 Message-Id: <199703101740.LAA21067@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #62 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, March 10 1997 Volume 01 : Number 062 In this digest: IN> Magcik IN> Re: New Demon Prince (long) Re: IN> Fraying book covers. Re: IN> Riders and Hosts Re: IN> Players in Vancouver, BC Re: IN> Some random new artifacts Re: IN> Riders and Hosts Re: IN> Magcik Re: IN> Re: New Demon Prince (long) IN>Score one for Nybbas IN> The New Superiors Re: IN> Elerial IN> Yet Another Archange IN> Newquist's (and Our) Labour of Love Re: IN> Newquist's (and Our) Labour of Love IN> A Few Thoughts..... Re: IN> Failed Superior Invocation... Re: IN> Patience (long!) Re: IN> Why Johnny can't breed... or can he? Re: IN> A Few Thoughts..... Re: IN> Yet Another Archangel RE: IN> re: which is real religion? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 18:16:18 -0500 From: s012433@umslvma.umsl.edu (Brian) Subject: IN> Magcik ...I wrote earlier of my intentions to create some rules for Magick in the IN universe, well, here is what I have come up with so far. Magick may be used by any being with Essence, and the intelligence to invoke it. Normally, only those able to conciously spend their Essence would be able to use magick, but mundanes with powerful will may attempt to direct their spirit into it (d666 vs. Will + Essence, Check Die = ammount of Essence that may be spent.). Magick is neither divine nor infernal, yet it may be used to further either cause, and so intervention effects (111 or 666 on d666) will depend upon the user and the desired effect. Magick takes massive amounts of concentration to perform, yet when active, it meshes with the Symphony and changes its music to the desires of the performer. Magcik creates NO disturbance in the Symphony. It blends with it and shapes it, but it does not create new notes, as do Songs, thus it creates not noticable (to celestials or otherwise) change. This may seem powerful, but the price of Magick is dear, and any attempt to use it is difficult (d666 vs. Essence - Dissonance [not total capacity, remaining Essence after the cost of using the attempted magicks is spent], modified by various rites, foci, materials, so on and so forth, Check Die = potency of desired effect, or if failed, severity of failure.) Magick is learned in the form of Invocations and Rituals, which are as varied as the Songs of the celestials. (Examples of Invocations and Rituals forthcoming.) The Essence cost for using magick is varied in accordance with the attempted effect, some examples are: Summoning = Celestial Forces of desired target Binding = Corporeal Forces of desired target Alteration of Corporeal Form = Corporeal Forces of target, etc. If a roll to use magick is failed, the Essence cost is still spent, but unlike Songs where nothing happens, something (GM's discretion) will occur. More to come... Brian ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 09:09:55 +0000 From: "Joel Cardella" Subject: IN> Re: New Demon Prince (long) > BAND ATTUNEMENTS: (For Leviathan) >Balseraphs have at least one Servant of > the Order (free level 5 human Soldier). Level 5 human Soldier? This seems a bit powerful...That's equal to 13 free cp's! Also, "at least one Servant" should be amended. I would interpret this as "at least one,[ but as many as you like, or the GM permits]" > Djinn: > Djinn Cenobites are usually charged with making a handful > of people suffer especially - the same people they are attuned to. > They gain NO Dissonance for harming the people they are attuned > to. If, however, one of his charges escapes, he gains Discord instead > of Dissonance (though the Discord will leave if and when he > retrieves his wayward pupils). Again, I would amend "NO dissonance for harming" to "...harming, but not killing.." Otherwise, good. > Calabim: > Calabim Cenobites can, should they so choose, take their time > in applying their Resonance towards mortals. They gain 2 Essence > for killing a mortal as slowly as possible. Good one! As a GM, if a Calabite chose to use his/her Resonance for this, and rolled anything but a "1" on the check digit on each roll used, I'd say "sorry! It could have been drawn out longer!" > Habbalah: > The Habbalites are the favored servants of Leviathan. In > addition to holding more status in the eyes of their Superior than > another of similar rank, Habbalites can use their Resonance on > as many people as they have Celestial Forces at once, but must > gain the Dissonance if it fails. I assume you mean if any or all of the rolls fails? > Lilim: > Lilim Cenobites can ignore any Geasa upon them if it interferes > with their work for Leviathan. Lilim are generally sent as advance > agents to earthly mortals who would deal with Leviathan, and are > the mortal's "familiar". Again, I think this is too powerful . If Lilim can ignore a Geas, this is going against the nature of their being! They should be able to ignore it for a number of days equal to their Celestial Forces, or until their current work for Leviathan is done, or something like that. The ignored Geas should kick in at inopportune moments. >Shedim: OK. >Impudites: OK, and very cool! Good one! >SERVITOR ATTUNEMENTS: Pretty good. >DISTINCTIONS: Good. Although I don't think an hour is long enough for the Baron. I'd say a day, but this can be interrupted a few times (say, as many as Celestial Forces that the victim has) >Basic Rites: > Observe humans inflicting horrible pain on others for personal enjoyment. > Tear a piece of Forces from a soul (2 Essence). > Defile a Church or other holy place (4 Essence). 4 Essence? That's way too much for this! One, MAYBE two, at the most! > Invoking the > Cenobites does not count as invoking a Superior for determining > false notes in the Symphony. What? You mean that a creature summoned from the depths of Hell that enters the Corporeal world DOESN'T send a false note? Or it doesn't send as large a false note as a Superior? Not bad. Clive would be proud. Although I do think you overpower things a bit too much. Scale them down, as per the examples in the book. Sometimes, some Bands just don't get anything cool for working for their boss, but they still do, because they like that Word. All IMHO, of course. AS a GM, I would use this, but with my suggestions. - - Joel - --------------------------------- Joel Cardella All the powers of a man bestowed on a man. http://www.io.com/~dronf ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Mar 97 21:31 EST From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Fraying book covers. [Raven:] >Physically, I was kinda disappointed. I mean, all the GURPS books I have >came with pretty sturdy cardstock covers, and the printing was done with >a matte finish, as opposed to the high-gloss plastic on IN. Actually, several GURPS books have suffered this problem, and a couple of others have the same type of cover coating, but *don't* seem to peel. It may be a problem with a particular printer, or a general problem with bonding that type of cover properly. No recent GURPS books seem to have had this trouble, though. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 15:27:44 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: Re: IN> Riders and Hosts At 08:29 PM 6/3/97 +1000, Patrick O'Duffy wrote: >Peter Frederick wrote: >> >> Dear Patrick, John and Raven (& List) >> >> **Insightful and useful answer clipped for Brevity** > Of course, if this theory is right, it might mean that if a Kyriotate >possessed a singel host for a long time (like years), the Vessel might >alter its appearance slowly to fit what the Kyriotate was more >comfortable with (and bear in mind what Kyriotates look like). Maybe an >Outcast, stuck in the same one or two bodies due to Discord... Hmmm, ta I had been thinking along the same lines, Celestials having a greater "overriding" level of reality that turns the Host into a sort of crypto-glyph of itself that looks and acts like itself but with the abilities of the Rider. Thinking about the "getting use to the host" idea, do Riders automatically get easy use of the facilities of the Host. As Kyrioate's do not get access to the mind or memories of their Host they might not ba able to use the physical abilities of their Host as well as the Host does. Eg a newly created Kryioate goes to earth and seeing a pigeon decides to possess it. Does the *Pigeon* fall out of the sky as the Kyrioate now alone in possesion of the piegon's body has little idea of how to use it to stay in the air? I can see that the previously non-physical celestial beings would get the grasp of things like momentum and gravity pretty quick, but flight (and other animal skills) are harder to learn and not so obvious. It is possible that their connection to the Symphony give the celestials access to those sorts of knowledges while they are in a particular Host. What do people think? Thanking you for your indulgence. Yours Peter. Email to peterf@geko.net.au "Whoso loveth God truely must not expect to be loved by Him in return." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 23:26:30 -0800 (PST) From: Benjamin Cheng Subject: Re: IN> Players in Vancouver, BC I hope this isn't off topic for the list, shoot me if it is, but if anyone wants in on an In Nomine campaign starting in Vancouver, BC (ok, ok, it's really Burnaby, same difference.) please contact me at benjamic@sfu.ca. We're playing on Wednesday nights and looking for one more player. We've already played one week. so email me if you're interested. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 23:26:13 -0800 From: "Joe Fulgham" Subject: Re: IN> Some random new artifacts > * A crowbar or turkey baster that pries or pops a non-owning soul out of > a possessed body. I hesitate to ask how the turkey baster is used to get souls out of a body... > * A whiffle bat that works like the Calabite of Lust Attunement -- it > does Soul hits even to those protected by corporeal vessels. Yeouch. And embarrasing too... "How'd you get so hurt?" "Umm... he hit me with a whiffle bat." > * A zippo lighter with a few levels of Seduction in it. Don't they all? That's why all my friends have them ;) > * Glasses or a monocle which lets the wearer see others' Celestial forms > in the corporeal realm. This I don't like, because it could easily wreck the surprises set up by a GM. It should remain difficult to detect a Celestial in corporeal form. Perhaps this could show "true form" instead - if someone had used a Song of Form to change themselves, this would show their original (corporeal) likeness instead. - --------------------------------------------------------- Joe Fulgham |"Expecting the world to treat you puck@holycow.com | fairly because you are a good www.holycow.com | person is a little like expecting PGP Key available | the bull not to attack you because Puck Undernet #mtg | you are a vegetarian. -Dennis Wholey ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 18:21:26 +1000 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> Riders and Hosts Peter Frederick wrote: > > Hmmm, ta I had been thinking along the same lines, Celestials having a > greater "overriding" level of reality that turns the Host into a sort of > crypto-glyph of itself that looks and acts like itself but with the > abilities of the Rider. > > Thinking about the "getting use to the host" idea, do Riders automatically > get easy use of the facilities of the Host. As Kyrioate's do not get access > to the mind or memories of their Host they might not ba able to use the > physical abilities of their Host as well as the Host does. Eg a newly > created Kryioate goes to earth and seeing a pigeon decides to possess it. > Does the *Pigeon* fall out of the sky as the Kyrioate now alone in possesion > of the piegon's body has little idea of how to use it to stay in the air? > > I can see that the previously non-physical celestial beings would get the > grasp of things like momentum and gravity pretty quick, but flight (and > other animal skills) are harder to learn and not so obvious. It is possible > that their connection to the Symphony give the celestials access to those > sorts of knowledges while they are in a particular Host. > > What do people think? > Hmmm... probably depends on both the PC and the player. If the PC is experienced, or the player wants the PC to not seem foolish, then I wouldn't go with the 'can't fly!' problem. If the PC was very inexperienced, or the player wanted a laugh, then maybe. Objectively... Kyriotates don't seem to inherit any of the 'acquired' skills of a Host, just the 'instinctive' ones like walking etc. If a Kyriotate possessed a blue whale, I'd allow them the swimming, but it might take some time to puzzle out how to use sonar. Of course, if they're a servitor of Jordi, they're sure to know what they're doing. In general, roleplay should be the decider. There's value to playing out a Kyriotate's confusion in his bird body, working out how thermals work and trying to get the interest of the rest of the pigeons. Just my opinion, of course. - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia You're perfect, yes it's true But without me you're only you Your menstruating heart It ain't bleedin' enough for two FAITH NO MORE, "Mid-Life Crisis" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 97 02:33:53 -0600 (CST) From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting) Subject: Re: IN> Magcik At 06:16 PM 3/9/97 -0500, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote: >...I wrote earlier of my intentions to create some rules for Magick in the >IN universe, well, here is what I have come up with so far. > >Magick may be used by any being with Essence, and the intelligence to >invoke it. Normally, only those able to conciously spend their Essence >would be able to use magick, but mundanes with powerful will may attempt to >direct their spirit into it (d666 vs. Will + Essence, Check Die = ammount >of Essence that may be spent.). > >Magick is neither divine nor infernal, yet it may be used to further either >cause, and so intervention effects (111 or 666 on d666) will depend upon >the user and the desired effect. Just a point here: some Archangels (Dominic seems the type) and Demon Princes (Vapula?) probably won't like magicians. Just because it's not Infernal or Divine doesn't mean it's accepted. >Magick takes massive amounts of concentration to perform, yet when active, >it meshes with the Symphony and changes its music to the desires of the >performer. Magcik creates NO disturbance in the Symphony. It blends with >it and shapes it, but it does not create new notes, as do Songs, thus it >creates not noticable (to celestials or otherwise) change. > >This may seem powerful, but the price of Magick is dear, and any attempt to >use it is difficult (d666 vs. Essence - Dissonance [not total capacity, >remaining Essence after the cost of using the attempted magicks is spent], >modified by various rites, foci, materials, so on and so forth, Check Die = >potency of desired effect, or if failed, severity of failure.) I'd make a slight change: magick ITSELF does not disturb the Symphony. The effects (i.e. summoning a demon, assuming Celestial form, possibly even killing a mortal) are. Coolness. In a game of so much extremes, you've provided a middle ground AND a way for mortals to actually matter. Kestrel ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 97 02:34:04 -0600 (CST) From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting) Subject: Re: IN> Re: New Demon Prince (long) At 09:09 AM 3/9/97 +0000, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote: >> BAND ATTUNEMENTS: (For Leviathan) >>Balseraphs have at least one Servant of >> the Order (free level 5 human Soldier). >Level 5 human Soldier? This seems a bit powerful...That's equal to 13 >free cp's! Also, "at least one Servant" should be amended. I would interpret this >as "at least one,[ but as many as you like, or the GM permits]" Hmm. How about we dock it one or two points, where the servant's primarily useful as a contact, rather than as a sidekick? >> Djinn: >> Djinn Cenobites are usually charged with making a handful >> of people suffer especially - the same people they are attuned to. >> They gain NO Dissonance for harming the people they are attuned >> to. If, however, one of his charges escapes, he gains Discord instead >> of Dissonance (though the Discord will leave if and when he >> retrieves his wayward pupils). >Again, I would amend "NO dissonance for harming" to "...harming, but >not killing.." Otherwise, good. Sounds good. Dead souls, of course, cannot die. ;> >> Calabim: >> Calabim Cenobites can, should they so choose, take their time >> in applying their Resonance towards mortals. They gain 2 Essence >> for killing a mortal as slowly as possible. >Good one! As a GM, if a Calabite chose to use his/her Resonance for >this, and rolled anything but a "1" on the check digit on each roll >used, I'd say "sorry! It could have been drawn out longer!" Yep. I'm a sadist. >> Habbalah: > > The Habbalites are the favored servants of Leviathan. In >> addition to holding more status in the eyes of their Superior than >> another of similar rank, Habbalites can use their Resonance on >> as many people as they have Celestial Forces at once, but must >> gain the Dissonance if it fails. >I assume you mean if any or all of the rolls fails? Right, sorry. >> Lilim: > > Lilim Cenobites can ignore any Geasa upon them if it interferes >> with their work for Leviathan. Lilim are generally sent as advance >> agents to earthly mortals who would deal with Leviathan, and are >> the mortal's "familiar". >Again, I think this is too powerful . If Lilim can ignore a Geas, this >is going against the nature of their being! They should be able to >ignore it for a number of days equal to their Celestial Forces, or >until their current work for Leviathan is done, or something like that. >The ignored Geas should kick in at inopportune moments. How about I narrow the restriction to: "... interferes with a direct order from your superior"? It was the one clause that the woman/familiar in Bloodlines used so she could kill that mortal who followed her around a couple centuries. >>Shedim: >OK. > >>Impudites: >OK, and very cool! Good one! > >>SERVITOR ATTUNEMENTS: >Pretty good. > >>DISTINCTIONS: >Good. Although I don't think an hour is long enough >for the Baron. I'd say a day, but this can be interrupted a few times >(say, as many as Celestial Forces that the victim has) No time frame given in the movies, alas. >>Basic Rites: >> Observe humans inflicting horrible pain on others for personal enjoyment. >> Tear a piece of Forces from a soul (2 Essence). >> Defile a Church or other holy place (4 Essence). >4 Essence? That's way too much for this! One, MAYBE two, at the most! Perhaps I should alter it to a Divine Tether. Would that suit you? >> Invoking the >> Cenobites does not count as invoking a Superior for determining >> false notes in the Symphony. >What? You mean that a creature summoned from the depths of Hell that >enters the Corporeal world DOESN'T send a false note? Or it doesn't >send as large a false note as a Superior? Not as a Superior, no. >Not bad. Clive would be proud. Although I do think you overpower >things a bit too much. Scale them down, as per the examples in the >book. Sometimes, some Bands just don't get anything cool for working >for their boss, but they still do, because they like that Word. > >All IMHO, of course. AS a GM, I would use this, but with my suggestions. Clive wouldn't be proud, actually (he hates the concept of the bad guys being seen as the good guys, like in Anne Rice books), but thanks. It's hard for me to try to get a sense of scale, though, since I haven't seen about half these bands at work. Kestrel ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 21:44:29 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: IN>Score one for Nybbas Dear List just reading this weeks edition of New Dawn ("A Journal of Conspiracies and Metaphysics") which reports that after suffering several years of declining Bible sales Publishers have determined the cause. According to extensive customer surveys the Bible is too difficult to read. In response publishers are preparing to produce a version of the Bible for today's public aimed at a sixth grade education reading level. One farsighted publisher is going further to grab a bigger slice of the market dumbing down the Bible to a reading level of third grade. This Journal (whose other catch cry is "exposing consensus reality") is a minefield of the weird, wacky and just plain way out, they re present some of their material at www.peg.aspc.org/~newdawn Thanking you for your indulgence. Yours Peter. Email to peterf@geko.net.au "Whoso loveth God truely must not expect to be loved by Him in return." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 09:00:44 -0500 (EST) From: IQJason@aol.com Subject: IN> The New Superiors Just wanted to give a big dollop o'Essence to Rob and Kestrel for their additions to the Celestial hierarchy. Sunya, Amare and Leviathan were all very well written and well received -- particularly Amare. I was skeptical about one Archangel covering the whole of Love (that's one mighty big woid) but you pulled it off with aplomb. I'm interested in seeing your Archangel of Numbers, Rob...but honestly, I'll probably end up changing the word to mathematics. In my eyes, any celestial placed in charge of universal constants should be of an even higher rank than Archangel or Prince. Thus, I wouldn't have an Archangel of Gravity or Demon Princess of Black Holes. However, mathematics, or mankind's efforts to comprehend the number system, seems fine to me. Maybe a word-bound servitor of Jean? Just a thought. yours, (and don't worry. I've got some of my own coming.) - -j ------------------------------ Date: 10 Mar 97 09:53:51 EST From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: IN> Elerial > Sounds good to me, I'll put a lot more thought and detail >in and see what the higher-ups think. The field for major >players is already about full for the supplements for the game, but >since Elerial is a 'sleeper' that can pack a wallop, she works >better in the magazine format. > Oooooh, this give me ideas, must get to word processor... Here's an idea: Elerial has a practical joke she's planning on the Demon Princes. It'll only take another thousand years to come to fruition... it involves tectonic plates. ;> Peace, Moriah ------------------------------ Date: 10 Mar 97 09:54:00 EST From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM> Subject: IN> Yet Another Archange Bodhi, You don't make the Archangel of Love a Cherub?! Ach, you break my heart! ;> Peace, Moriah ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 09:12:40 +0000 From: "Bodhi" Subject: IN> Newquist's (and Our) Labour of Love I just had to say a big Thank You to Jason Newquist for his In Nomine Collections page at http://www.nocturne.org/INC/ ... and while I'm at it, a big THANKS to all of the people who contributed the ideas through their posts to this list. I was just scanning through some of the more recent updates, and I began to realize just what this one site represents. That site, while not necessarily containing _everything_ useful from this list, has nevertheless become one of the most organized, most -readable- IN resources available. ... and to the rest of us, it is free!! After about 20 years of buying gaming suppliments that contain little more than fluff, it is so easy to see that Jason has worked his tail off (I wonder if that's a Numinous Corpus...) collecting, sorting, and posting the better ideas - and has provided us with an easy-to-access collection of actually USEFUL gaming info. I've been watching this site grow for the past month or so, and I'm really amazed at the good work that people have done. If this rate of development keeps up, the first few "real" suppliments from SJG will be a bit of a let down. Not that I won't buy them (!!): it is just that I'm sure that the work that all of the people on this list have put into this game is of such a high calibre that we're already producing quality information at a rate that is difficult to match. I'm very pleased, proud, and happy to be a part of this unique gaming experience. I'm part of other gaming List-servs, but NONE of them has ever provided that sort of quality that this one has... and definitely never the quantity, either. I can't wait for the day when we need a binder to keep the suppliments in that is bigger than the original game book!! Which reminds me... if any graphic-artist types out there feel the pressing need to create a "cover" jpg/gif for an In Nomine Suppliments Binder, be sure to tell me about it. ... Hmm... you know, I think that I might have to do an organized, printed suppliment version for my own use, complete with illustrations, index, and ... hmm... ... anybody know which FONT the original IN book used :-) ? Keep up the good work, everybody. Thank you, all. Walk in Beauty, Rob Wolff / Bodhi rob@v-wave.com A buddhist monk kept stealing bread, so that every time he was released from prison, he would simply steal again and wind up back in his old cell. Eventually, after fifty years... he was the only one left in the prison. Think about it. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 11:39:32 -0500 (EST) From: IQJason@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Newquist's (and Our) Labour of Love "http://www.nocturne.org/INC/" Small problem. The INC must be inc to actually reach the page. :) yours, - -j ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 11:44:30 -0500 From: Hatcher Rhanyr Subject: IN> A Few Thoughts..... Thought #1 I recently read the post on magick and am reminded of one of my fav comic books "The Books of Magic" original concept done by none other than Neil Gaiman (Sandman fame). "Books" does have a bit of the feel that Sandman does but not quite so "ethereal". In "Books" magic is rare though there are some who've figured out how to use it. Most villains in the setting are trying to exploit a young man named Tim Hunter, who is the son of Titania (Faerie Queen) and a human mage. Neat huh!!!!! Thought #2 I've been thinking about the undead aspects of In Nomine and began to think about how would conversions of White Wolf games work with In Nomine. I particularly like the idea of Caine being the father of all vampires. Mage might be interesting to take a look at if your planning on incorporating "magick" into an In Nomine game. Also Changeling might not be a bad if you are thinking about running a "Books of Magic" Campaign. Thought #3 I don't know how many appreciate the movies and show "Highlander" on this list but here is an idea. There has been some mention of offspring of celestials. I was thinking about Highlanderish characters in In Nomine when it struck me, what if the "Immortals" were of celestial heritage. They live forever if left well enough alone, but there are those of diabolical heritage that discovered that when an Immortal kills another one, their essence is transfered to the victor (in a spectacular display). Likewise Immortals present a disturbance in the Symphony that can easily be detected by other Immortals or Celestials. Whadya think?? ************************************************************************ Hatcher Rhanyr "The Angel of Bright Shiney Teeth" ************************************************************************ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 11:46:39 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Failed Superior Invocation... At 2:39 PM -0500 3/7/97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: >On Mar 7, 2:19pm, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: [...] >> Here's a question -- if you *fail* to attract your Superior's attention, >> what's the Check Digit good for? [...] >> If you're not at a Tether, is it the number of days before you can >> try again? [Or, rather, try again with any hope of success -- the character may not know that the Superior is out of touch... [[Maybe GMs should roll the CD seperately...]]] > I like this proposal. Right off hand, I can't remember >whether that was covered in the rulebook. (Right now, a lot >of my mental energies are going towards FORGETTINg all thost >playtest files I carried with me lovingly to many conventions. >Ack.) If there isn't a ruling already, I think this is a good >answer. I think I know what you mean. I still have to refer to my copy of IOU to see what made it in, and in what form. Thanks! - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 11:49:57 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Patience (long!) At 2:47 PM -0500 3/7/97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: >On Mar 7, 2:16pm, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> Subject: Re: IN> Patience (long!) >> At 9:39 AM -0500 3/7/97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: >> >> [...] >> > Elerial, the Archangel whose name means Patience approves >> >of the willingness of all who bide their time in support of In >> >Nomine. >> [...] >> >Kyriotates: These Kyriotates gain the ability to wait in their >> > hosts without controlling them. They gain no dissonance >> > when their hosts are damaged unless they are actually in >> > control at the time. While not in control they are >> > nearly indetectable. >> >> Hey, I had dibs on that one first! > > D'oh! I thought that sounded familiar as I wrote it. >Can you suggest a change that would make it sufficiently >different? (I'm still pulling for the ArchDean of secrecy... >heh, heh, heh.) (I like it too, actually... But I wrote all the other stuff first! Whaaa! Oh, well, at least all the different bits mean that PCs won't have a clue what combo is being used...) >Maybe take out the indetectable part? I've >forgotten the details, help! The no dissonance part is yours. Hm... Maybe the "not in control = not detectable" (a la Asmodeus' Servitor attunement, whateveritwas?) is just standard with Kyrios? I could live with that, easy -- and it seems a very logical sort of result for them. I'd just have to look and see what I had that was different. >>>Basic Rites >>>Spend 12 hours in simple contemplation of an activity without >>> actually taking any actions toward completing it (nor any >>> other actions). >> >>Oh, that's easy... You should see the planning that goes on amongst >>our group sometimes... (On the other hand, there's just this *glow* >>that you get when your plans all work perfectly, allowing you to >>set it up and waltz through the opposition via treachery and guile, >>rather than messy combat...) >> >>(And then there's times when everything just goes wrong and you wind >>up in a firefight with people who can actually use their weapons >>naturally and not by default.) > > Eh, that's what essence is for... ;) Different game system. Acc bonuses and aiming and luck of the dice are lovely things. Don't get me started on gaming war-stories... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 12:14:06 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Why Johnny can't breed... or can he? At 3:11 PM -0500 3/7/97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: >> >[...] It's only when mating with humans that 'accidental' use >> >[of Essence, to create a kid] can occur (and, in my proposal, >> >Followers of Eli...) ;) >> >> (Creation, true... Are you sure that "accidental" is entirely >> appropriate? I might do it, "make a Will/Perception" roll to >> start the process with the average Celestial, and make it >> totally voluntary, don't need to roll, with the Servitors of >> Creation.) > > Oh, the Celestial doesn't have an accidental stuff, >they do it automatically. Erm? If it can happen without them thinking about it, it sounds accidental... (Humans have "accidents" all the time, of course.) [...] > A lot of the evil-devil-worshipping-cultist types >try to give birth to the antichrist with their ceremonies. >A demon of some sort would be required to stand in for >the devil and the woman could either be a volunteer or >a hapless victim. Fear is a good way to cause essence >spillage. Chaaaaaarrrrrmmmming. >> Lucky critters. (Well, I wouldn't know about morning sick myself; >> I *do* know about monthly cramps.) Can a pregnant-vessel celestial >> "go celestial"? What happens to the kid's soul, if so? Does that >> contribute to memetic inheritance? (As opposed to genetics...) > > In my essay, the embryo (soul and all) goes where the >vessel goes when it's not in use. This can make for a VERY >long pregnancy. You have to spend the full nine months in >corporeal form for the child to complete gestation. And if you swap vessels, then that takes a long time as well... (Hey, can you let someone else borrow one of your vessels, or trade it? "Hey, Joel, would you carry this kid for me?") >> Just thought of a better requirement -- must have (or have had in the >> past, perhaps, for Remnants?) at least one of each Force for a >> successful breeding? (Okay, I *like* the idea of a Remnant in a >> Role being able to have even only semi-celestial kids.) > > Erk. That opens the floodgates for weirdness. Possibly >interesting weirdness, but weirdness nonetheless. As far as I >can tell you have to be at _least_ as complex as a human being to >help create an angel and, IMO, at least one partner must be an >angel to actual make an angel. > But you have triggered an idea for a story/character. >What if a remnant fled to a vessel that was pregnant? I'd >say that the soul's course had been set at conception. Good point. (We were thinking, later, that perhaps successful angelic conception required a certain number of forces/attributes from the *parents* -- and while celestials will both provide enough to make a celestial kid, humans might not have enough to "spare" that way, so the celestial would have to work harder...) >Now if >a Remnant had sex AFTER becoming a remnant, it become trickier. >They cannot spend essence with the same surety as celestials, >but certainly could do it for this purpose. The offspring would >be all humans to my thinking. The genetics are right and the >remnant at least has the tatters of a complete soul, but the >angelic quality is gone. Though you might still get "special" human souls? I could live with that easy. >> > Kyriotates. Must be Kyriotates. Although I have seen >> >a cat with what must be a case of permanent Shedite possession! >> >> Eeeeg! Now that's scary... > > We call her Loviatar, Kitten of Pain. >>However, if the product gets lucky enough to have a *celestial* soul, >>they show up (possibly in Trauma, unless they have a Malakite parent?) >>somewhere in the celestial realm their actions earned? If that's the >>same as their celestial parent's, then maybe they show up by that >>parent's Heart? (Which I think is a seriously cool notion.) > > Ah, this gets into the meat of the proposed article. >The proto-angel is, for most intents and purposes, a human >called a Chrysalid until they emerge. Until that point they >live and die as a human. Same as your average Child of Grigori, I presume? >Afterwards, they are fully angel and >subject to the restrictions and enhancements angels have. >The dead proto-angel could be used as the core of a new angel >possibly, since their soul was essentially angelic. That last paragraph is mildly confusing -- do they evolve as Relievers do, once the human shell is dead? (We think Relievers are baby celestials, born in Heaven, BTW.) >> Hm. So where do Grigi-Kiddies show up when they die? > Depending on how you look at things, there are >two different choices. > 1) God made the Grigori to be so close to human >that all their children with humans were human No can do -- it says that the Children of Grigori are celestials. p. 67, Physical Death, and After: "When the corporeal vessel of a celestial (including a a celestial spirit or a child of the Grigori) is killed, his Forces regroup in the celestial realm, but his soul may need time to recover." > 2) Grigori, fallen or no, are angels still. They >have the same chances of making an angel as any other angel. Which would imply that the "part angel" children of the Grigori are usually the ones with full celestial souls, rather than the superior-human version? (Though the book *says* they're part angel, which could mean that two superior-human Grigori descendants could produce a celestial Child of the Grigori?) > Of the two, #2 has richer role-playing opportunities. >Maybe the mysterious Grigori still exist and have ways of >reproducing that make neither angels, humans or devils. >A sort of 'pre-tripped for you convenience' angel. This was >firmly beyond the score of the article since the details of >the Grigori are still being batted around. Excommunicated angels, maybe? >>And will the product have memetic influence from the celestial >>parent's Choir/Band? (As well as genetic influence from the vessle >>used, which I'd say is likely...) Gee.... Ofanim-kids would be >>hyperactive, wouldn't they? > > It's more fun that way, so I'd go with that! ;) Though I bet you don't see many pregnant Ofanim! - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 10:16:47 -0700 (MST) From: Mark Cogan Subject: Re: IN> A Few Thoughts..... > Thought #3 > I don't know how many appreciate the movies and show "Highlander" on > this list but here is an idea. There has been some mention of offspring > of celestials. I was thinking about Highlanderish characters in In > Nomine when it struck me, what if the "Immortals" were of celestial > heritage. They live forever if left well enough alone, but there are > those of diabolical heritage that discovered that when an Immortal kills > another one, their essence is transfered to the victor (in a spectacular > display). Likewise Immortals present a disturbance in the Symphony that > can easily be detected by other Immortals or Celestials. Whadya think?? Now, there's a thought. It also ties in nicely with the Immortal stricture about not fighting on hallowed ground. However, it isn't clear that the immortals fall into neat angelic/diabolical categories. I'd be inclined to say that Celestial offspring don't have their natures determined by their nonhuman parents. (it also fits that the immortals, being hybrids, would be sterile) Mark. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 11:29:03 -0600 (CST) From: Russ Collins Subject: Re: IN> Yet Another Archangel > Amare', Archangel of Love > [SNIP] > Rites: > Servitors of Amare' gain one point of essence when they... > - Spend 3 hours reading love poetry, philosophical works on love, etc. > - Spend 1 hour having sex with a partner (love-of-self doesn't apply > here ;-) ) Needless to say, this should be CONSENTUAL sex. Russ Collins rgc@io.com "Once one dismisses the rest of all possible worlds, One finds that this is the best of all possible worlds." -- Candide (Berstein, Sondheim) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 09:35:36 -0800 From: Nicholas Jost Subject: RE: IN> re: which is real religion? - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC2D36.696BFD20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think you want to reword your question to "within the scope of the game who is right and who is wrong" Nick Jost - ---------- From: Corey[SMTP:c695688@showme.missouri.edu] Sent: Friday, March 07, 1997 3:00 PM To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Subject: IN> re: which is real religion? okay, i dont want to start any sort of flame wars, and im not trying to espouse anyone particualr doctrine, but how is the Islam/Christianity division dealt with, i mean christianity ignores mohammed, and islam says that jesus was just a prophet, who's right, or are they both wrong Swear allegiance to the flag what ever flag they offer -Mike and the Mechanics "SIlent Running" - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC2D36.696BFD20 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiURAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ADQBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAE8AAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABpbl9ub21pbmUtbEBsaXN0cy5pby5jb20AU01UUABpbl9ub21pbmUtbEBsaXN0cy5p by5jb20AAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAZAAAAaW5fbm9taW5lLWxAbGlzdHMu aW8uY29tAAAAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAABsAAAAnaW5fbm9taW5lLWxAbGlzdHMu aW8uY29tJwAAAgELMAEAAAAeAAAAU01UUDpJTl9OT01JTkUtTEBMSVNUUy5JTy5DT00AAAADAAA5 AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAA7A7AQiABwAYAAAASVBNLk1pY3Jvc29mdCBNYWls Lk5vdGUAMQgBBIABACQAAABSRTogSU4+IHJlOiB3aGljaCBpcyByZWFsIHJlbGlnaW9uPwCiCwEF gAMADgAAAM0HAwAKAAkAIwAkAAEAMgEBIIADAA4AAADNBwMACgAJACIAOAABAEUBAQmAAQAhAAAA OTlFRDA3NjdFRTk2RDAxMTg1M0IwMEEwMjRDRjE2NTIADgcBA5AGAMwEAAASAAAACwAjAAEAAAAD ACYAAAAAAAsAKQABAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAoNLFdnktvAEeAHAAAQAAACQAAABSRTogSU4+IHJl OiB3aGljaCBpcyByZWFsIHJlbGlnaW9uPwACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABvC15dsVnB+2alu4R0IU7AKAk zxZSAAAeAB4MAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAFQAAAG5pY2tqQG9sc3RhZmZpbmcuY29t AAAAAAMABhBDYb5zAwAHEB0CAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABJVEhJTktZT1VXQU5UVE9SRVdPUkRZT1VS UVVFU1RJT05UTyJXSVRISU5USEVTQ09QRU9GVEhFR0FNRVdIT0lTUklHSFRBTkRXSE9JU1dST05H Ik5JQ0tKT1NULS0tLS0tLS0tAAAAAAIBCRABAAAARAMAAEADAAAKBgAATFpGdUJ3dZr/AAoBDwIV AqgF6wKDAFAC8gkCAGNoCsBzZXQyNwYABsMCgzIDxQIAcHJCcRHic3RlbQKDMzcC5AcTAoM0BEYT MzEgdwhVB7ICgH0KgAjPCdk78RgPMjU1AoAKgQ2xC2DgbmcxMDMUUAsKFFEFC/JjAEAgSSB0aJEL gGsgeQhgIHcAcFEFQHRvIBgQdwWwZNsdYgXAcQpQE8BpAiAd8k4iA/AdEh0BZSAE8G+ScCBQb2Yg I2dhB4AdHaBoHhAEAB4gaWdobwVAAHAegCGVdwNgGxAiIwqFCoVOaWMdUEpvBxPAI3wK9GxpMTgw wQLRaS0xNDQN8AzQcybDC1kxNgqgA2AT0GN9BUAtKOcKhyebDDAoZkZ9A2E6Ke4oZgyCFlEYEHkA W1NNVFA6YzaAOTU2ODhAcyGgsncHgC5tBAEIYi4JgPx1XSmPKp0GYAIwK88s28ErgGlkYXksBdAK wBERcCAwNzSQMTk5EDcgMzomYCBQTXMwHyqdVG8yXyzbC4Bfhm4DcAuAZS1sQCYgqRPAcy4fQC4F oG02H3ExLnViaiihOD8s20n8Tj4eIT4AIZAkYDTwIdKuZQdAHiEmIGcfQT8k7zkl8zM2J2ccRSzb b2vxNHJpIGQCIR2nE8AKwP0iQnkgYBexIMIa4SFiEZE3NJAiYgdwIDpAJNZ0ctp5C4BnHfIHkHAI YBGwn0bCAiAgUAqxHzBjdQdAPwXARaAosAUQOoA0kGJ1nwVALuEhwiAxCoVJc0eh+C9DaAUQHyEA cB/QRvD4ZGl2BAAfQg2wB0BF0f8f0UViB4ADkRFwThkiEDpAXRgQcwqFBGARgG0HgGTfSDVNoiBg NHBM0mEFQD3A7nNKQB2hBCBqSkAiQUrgtQNgcCBAdDSQIZEnIeX/NJAFsAqFCsAgUCAxRvAG4D8d ECMEQd0tYlkvLXFTd2NBAFbxbGxlQYAAcGP/VzEeECAyGuFYNll/XVYhkHlT4WV2FrFcMldEINBm PwSQLVMKhWC/Yc9iVi1N3GlrSmIegCAyTQWQEYA9AwBjBCBgX2XvZv4iU8ZJWzAd0VJ1bgMAI0+/ Qd9C7hVhRBoKhRcxAG2QAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAEAABzCgpoxeeS28AUAACDCgpoxeeS28AR4A PQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAAAAAAilk= - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC2D36.696BFD20-- ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #62 ****************************** The material here is (C) 1996 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.