From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Mar 14 15:12:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by deliverator.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA02453; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 15:09:07 -0600 (CST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA27016 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 14 Mar 1997 15:12:22 -0600 Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 15:12:22 -0600 Message-Id: <199703142112.PAA27016@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #71 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, March 14 1997 Volume 01 : Number 071 In this digest: Re: IN> Religion - Prophets IN> New Archangel. (Long) Part 1 Re: IN> Demon Prince Suggestion... Re: Breeding again (Re: IN> Ponderables) IN> New Archangel. (Long) Part 2 Re: IN> New Archangel. (Long) Part 2 Re: IN> Demon Prince Suggestion... Re: IN> Demon Prince Suggestion... Re: IN> Demon Prince Suggestion... Re: IN> New Archangel. (Long) Part 2 IN> Character Archive ? Re: IN> Character Archive ? IN> Remnant restoration IN> Gabriel and Mary Re: IN> New Archangel. (Long) Part 1 IN> Safe Houses Re: IN> Highlander Race---- The Churahn Re: IN> Safe Houses IN>Re: Charon IN> The Realm of Faery among other things Re: IN> The Realm of Faery among other things Re: IN> Random questions. Re: IN> The Realm of Faery among other things Re: IN> Demon Prince Suggestion... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 13:32:34 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: Re: IN> Religion - Prophets Patrick O'Duffy responded very cogently ** Response Clipped for Brevity ** Hmm, looks good either way to me. Guess I can't see this as something that Lucifer is going to stay out of, so therefore the Bright Angels have to be in it to or lose that battlefield to the Fallen. Especially as we have the Archangel of Faith still coming. Thanking you for your indulgence. Yours Peter. Email to peterf@geko.net.au "Whoso loveth God truely must not expect to be loved by Him in return." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 15:36:18 GMT+10 From: "Leathal Weapon" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: IN> New Archangel. (Long) Part 1 Hi, This is an idea I've been kicking around since I bought the game. He's still in the developmental stages, so if anyone has any suggestions send them my way. Of course, all of this is IMO (especially the bits about Azrael), so feel free to ignore them. Leath. - ------------------------------------------------------------- CHARON - ARCHANGEL OF DEATH. Charon has been around for a very long time. Not as long as Yves or Michael, but certainly not long after. No one (except God) quite remembers when he appeared, but he has been in the background for as long as they can remember. He was not the original Archangel of Death, but came into being when Azrael, the original Archangel of Death, underwent an unknown change and disappeared from Heavenly society. Soon after Charon was appointed Archangel by God, eventually Saminga appeared and clawed his way up to be Hell's Prince of Death. No one is quite sure of the relationship shared between the two but it is this uncertainty that makes Charon a power behind the scenes, never quite popular with the others (especially Dominic). Another source of distrust among the Archangels is their failure to comprehend why Charon goes to such great lengths to ease the transition for souls of humans when a large number of them are bound for Hell anyway. Charon appreciates their confusion but says nothing to them on the matter. When encountered, Charon's favourite forms are that of a kindly old man with white hair and an open face, or as a black-robed 9 foot tall skeleton with a large incredibly sharp scythe. DISSONANCE. It is Dissonant for any of Charon's followers to work to prevent or to hasten any human's death by natural means. Natural means include old age and disease as well as others. This does not apply to preventing unnatural causes such as violence, murder, or Celestial interference. Note that accidental death due to car accidents, poisoning etc. unless purposely created, may or may not be natural (GMs decision). It becomes the Angel's discretion whether or not to help, but sometimes a person is Destined/Fated to end this way and if prevented by one of Charon's followers they will have to answer to him. Most of his followers take what appears to outsiders to be a callous view in these terms, as they are not willing to cross their master. Note that turning of a life support machine or similar is not considered to generate Dissonance or Charon's disapproval if requested by the patient (Charon view's such devices as instruments of Vapula anyway). CHOIR ATTUNEMENTS. SERAPHIM- These followers of Charon may look into a human's soul and see how far progressed they have progressed along their Destiny or Fate. They will not learn what exactly these are, but will know if the person has been following a path and for how long. This also allows them to see if any celestial interference has occurred up to this point in their lives, but will not reveal the source. CHERUBIM- These guardians may attune themselves to a terminally ill patient. They will know exactly how long this person will naturally survive and may comfort them to the end. The Cherub may do this to as many patients as they desire (up to their Forces), but the first attunement does not count towards their limit (it is 'free'). They do not gain Dissonance for these people dying naturally, in fact, they gain a point of Essence when the person dies if they have provided comfort in their last days (GMs discretion). OFANIM- The Ofanim of Charon may sense the immenent unnatural detah of a human. This human will die within minutes if the Angel does not intervene. They will also see the best way to get to the person before they die. They will know nothing about how the person is about to die, it may be as simple as a car accident, or a horde of Demons may be about to kill the human. The Angel is not obliged to act on their knowledge, but if they ignore the call too often, they will be required to explain why to Charon. ELOHIM- By talking to a dying person at length, thhese servants may assess any sins the person thinks they have and allow them to repent before death in order to gain a better chance at ascending into Heaven. They can not force a subject to repent, it must be of their own free will, but the Elohim will know if the subject is lying about repenting. The subject must be made to fully understand the pain and suffering they caused by their sins and be sorry for them in order to repent. If the subject repents before death, the Angel gains 1 Essence per sin repented. This gift can not be accomplished with simple die rolls, and must be roleplayed with the GM. MALAKIM- These warriors of Charon will not suffer an undead to 'live'. They may automatically sense the exact direction and general distance to any undead within 500 yards, and use this ability to track them. Obviously, very few agents of Saminga can operate successfully with Charon's Malakim in town. KYRIOTATES- These bodiless Angels may possess a dying person or persons. While doing this, they do not 'push out' the owner''s mind, rather they share it. They are able to block the pain and misery the person feels as long as they share their body. In this manner, they are able to grant the person one last 'go' at life. They can not extend the person's life by any means through this ability. They will sense when the subjects last hours arrive, and generally go all out to ensure the subject has a good time. They do not gain Dissonance for these vessels deteriorating naturally or through enjoying themselves when they leave just prior to death. MERCURIANS- These caring Angels are able to manifest their Celestial form in front of a dying person at no cost and with no disturbance to the Symphony. The dying human will automatically be able to see and hear the Angel, and may interact with it. The Mercurain is under no obligation to reassure the person, some even terrorise the 'unworthy'. The Angel must be alone with the dying person to use this ability, but they are able to maintain it if others enter the room afterwards, they are simply invisible to all others. - --------------------------------------------------------------- Continued in the next post. Just a thought... Leathal Weapon. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 11:58:56 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Demon Prince Suggestion... At 12:06 AM +0000 3/13/97, Bodhi wrote: >You know... > >For years, My friends and I have often joked about the Demon Prince of >Procrastination. He's the one who keeps me from finishing my Thesis >on time, etc. [...] Considering that Kronos' Shedim have an attunement that lets them play with people in a similar way, I'd suggest taht Procrastination not be a Prince, but merely a Word-bound Servitor of Fate. (Patience may be an Archangel, but Procrastination meshes too well with Kronos' lot to need the rank, I think...) And I agree that there ought to be one... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 12:05:44 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: Breeding again (Re: IN> Ponderables) At 10:09 AM -0500 3/13/97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: >On Mar 12, 5:41pm, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> Subject: Breeding again (Re: IN> Ponderables) >> At 3:56 PM -0500 3/12/97, Robert Barrett wrote: >> [...] >> >I want to make celestial-human reproduction a rare and wondrous thing [...] >> > I like John's ideas, but they make celestial/human >> >halfbreeds a bit too common (in my estimation). > > 'Too common' is a matter of opinion, and the GM's whim. (Though I wouldn't want to make the rules encourage it commonly, for those who want it to only happen by a divine (or infernal) intervention.) [...] >> Though it's probably quite true that the smart celestial should >> petition their Superior for permission before going around making >> half-breeds, even in a less "rare and wonderous thing" catagory. > > Heh. And you thought trying to go out on Friday night >as a teenager was bad! "Ummm... I'd like to go to earth and >create a half-breed. Can I, huh, can I?" ;) "I really love her/him, and will pay child support, and raise the child with the best teachings I know..." Or, during a conversation with a Superior, "Uh, boss? It's like this, there's this mortal, and s/he really really wants a kid, and, well, we were wondering..." - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 16:12:15 GMT+10 From: "Leathal Weapon" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: IN> New Archangel. (Long) Part 2 Continued.... - ---------------------------------------------------------- Note that servants of Charon from different Choirs generally work very well as teams. For example, A Cherub may attune itself to a patient to provide comfort while an Elohim allows that person to repent. Finally, just before death a Mercurian may manifest to reassure the human that everything will be alright. SERVITOR ATTUNEMENTS. LAST RIGHTS- The servant of Charon may spend 1 Essence and make a Will roll for a dying human to render them immune to any further Celestial interference (Angelic or Demonic) before their death (short of Archangel/ Demon Prince intervention). Any power or simple attempt by a Celestial to interact with the human will automatically fail unless they succeed in a Will roll with the Angel's Forces as a negative modifier. This power has thwarted many a last minute Demonic (or Angelic) plan. The followers of Charon are immune to this power. The human is free to die as the Symphony has dictated. PAST LIFE- The servant may look into the soul of a human and determine if they have been previously reincarnated. If so, they may gain brief glimpses of these lives, which may help them to interact with the person in this life (use the Angel's Perception as a positive modifier). DISTINCTIONS. These titles awarded by Charon refer to the progress of his Angels along the Path of the dead, that tunnel with the light at the end that humans must follow upon their deaths to reach Heaven. Seeker on the Path- These Angels may see the souls of living things as clearly as they see the corporeal bodies. The colours, shades and patterns tell the Angel much about the person's health, current emotional state, and the amount of Divine or Infernal influence that has personally touched that person's life. How the Angel interprets this information is entirely up to them. Wanderer on the Path- If in the presence of someone who has just died, the Wanderer may guide their soul along the Path, leading them more easily to Heaven. The journey takes 1D minutes, during which time the Angel's corporeal vessel sits motionless beside the deceased. By successfully guiding the soul, the Angel gains 1 Essence. Guide on the Path- These Angels may return lost souls (ghosts) to the Path. By making a Will roll the Angel may create a golden sphere around themself with a radius equal to their Forces multiplied by the Check Digit in yards. This sphere is invisible to all except lost souls, followers of Charon and the undead. Lost souls automatically find the Path through the Angel and ascend to Heaven. Any undead caught within the sphere must succeed in a Will roll with the check Digit of the Angels roll a negative modifier or instantly crumble to dust (be destroyed). The sphere lasts for the Angel's Forces in minutes. This gift makes Charon's Guides very effective 'Ghostbusters'. RELATIONS. Charon does not have great relations with most of the other major Archangels. He doesn;t really care about them, and they ignore him. He gets on well with Yves, who understands that all human's Destinies or Fates must end with death, and enjoys the company of Blandine, for what is death but a never ending dream? He is openly hostile to Dominic, who still suspects him of some treachery. Although not hostile with Laurence or Michael, he is annoyed with them because them are their followers send so many souls to Heaven for him to care for. This is summarised below. Allied: Yves. Associated: Blandine. Hostile: Dominic. Annoyed: Laurence, Michael. Neutral: All others. BASIC RIGHTS. * Spend an hour in a cemetary, reading headstones. * Comforting the loved ones of a recently departed. * Attending a funeral. CHANCE OF INVOCATION. 2- Charon realises that he has fewer followers today and wishes to help them, but with the constant influx of souls he is very busy. Modifiers: +1 : In a funeral home. +2 : In a morgue. +3 : In the presence of a recently departed (death bed). +4 : Putting flowers on at least 100 graves. +5 : Donating a headstone, grave, or coffin to a family who could not afford it and requires one. +6 : Having recently (24 hours) helped a soul along the Path. Note that Charon is just as likely to pull his servant's soul along the Path at breakneck speeds to meet with him as he is to corporeally manifest near them. They will feel intense accelleration and appear in his domain. Their vessel will remain in a trance until they follow the Path back down to it. CHARON'S CATHEDRAL - THE ENDLESS CEMETARY. This apparently infinite cemetary always has beautiful weather, well tended grass, gentle hills and headstones as far as the eye can see. Every person who has ever died has a headstone here. On each one is listed in engraved script their true name, date of death, and a brief cause of death. They also have the destination of the soul (Heaven, Hell etc.) and some poetry filled with joy or despair (depending on where they are). No one has an unmarked grave here, and every soul that has died is remembered. An Angel may try to lacate specific headstones in order to gain an insight into that person and their current location. However, much like Yves' Library, the headstones are not arranged in any distinct pattern. It may take some time to find the desireed headstone (see Yves' description for an idea). Alternatively, a favoured servant may ask Charon to guide, as he knows the name of everyone who died, but remember he is very busy. Every servant of Charon has a tomb in the 'centre' of the Cemetary overlooking the rest. Their hearts are stored in their own personal tomb, but they may ask Charon's permission to move it to be with friends. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Well, that's all for now. Let me know what you think. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 22:10:24 -0600 (CST) From: s012433@umslvma.umsl.edu (Brian Gracey) Subject: Re: IN> New Archangel. (Long) Part 2 [...totally awesome snipet...] I don't know about everyone else out there, but I really like this superior, and I think that he counter Saminga quite nicely...well done... Hold on, let me get my foot out of my mouth... Brian Gracey/Sanvi s012433@umslvma.umsl.edu sanvi@geocities.com The Celestial War: an In Nomine page http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/6889 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 23:20:46 -0500 (EST) From: med12@cornell.edu Subject: Re: IN> Demon Prince Suggestion... y On Thu, 13 Mar 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > At 12:06 AM +0000 3/13/97, Bodhi wrote: > >You know... > > > >For years, My friends and I have often joked about the Demon Prince of > >Procrastination. He's the one who keeps me from finishing my Thesis > >on time, etc. > [...] > Considering that Kronos' Shedim have an attunement that lets them > play with people in a similar way, I'd suggest taht Procrastination > not be a Prince, but merely a Word-bound Servitor of Fate. (Patience > may be an Archangel, but Procrastination meshes too well with Kronos' > lot to need the rank, I think...) > > And I agree that there ought to be one... > > > --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net > GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ > Would there be some connection to the vanished Demon Prince of Sloth? Mike D. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 97 22:51:26 -0600 (CST) From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting) Subject: Re: IN> Demon Prince Suggestion... At 05:44 PM 3/13/97 -0600, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote: >I liked the idea of the Archangel of Patience, and thought that she worked >very well as a superior, but as to a Demon Prince of Procrastination? I >think that would be even funnier if he was no more than a Word-Bound Demon >(which is powerful enough), and in conjunction with his Word, he can just >never seem to reach Princedom...thought? There was a Demon Prince of Procrastination. Haagenti met up with him. Kestrel ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 00:26:11 -0500 (EST) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> Demon Prince Suggestion... On Thu, 13 Mar 1997, Bodhi wrote: > For years, My friends and I have often joked about the Demon Prince of > Procrastination. He's the one who keeps me from finishing my Thesis > on time, etc. > > However, the more I think about it, the more I like this idea. It's > not as "hard-core" as my usual stuff; it _is_ a little more > light-hearted than my last 3 archangels. However, there is merit in > the idea of a Diabolical influence. > Nice idea - and I don't think it has to be light at all. How many times have you heard someone say something like "one day I'm going to get around to joining Amnesty International". Meanwhile, someone somewhere is getting a manicure with pliers. That's serious stuff! Hell, we could lose the PLANET because people who are *sympathetic* to all sorts of causes can't be bothered to get up off their but right now, even though they plan to get around to it sometime. This Demon Prince is Bad! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 97 23:52:11 -0600 (CST) From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting) Subject: Re: IN> New Archangel. (Long) Part 2 At 10:10 PM 3/13/97 -0600, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote: >[...totally awesome snipet...] > >I don't know about everyone else out there, but I really like this >superior, and I think that he counter Saminga quite nicely...well done... One thing: what Choir is Charon of? He seems like an Elohite, but it doesn't say. Kestrel ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 97 09:47 CET From: Marco Lambert Subject: IN> Character Archive ? Hello all, I am searching a archive, where I can find all posted characters and superiors. Because the in every other part marvelous INC did not provide any of them. Please drop me a line, thank you for your help. Bye and tschuess, Marco. ________________________________________________________________ Marco Lambert (Dipl.-Phys.) * Universitaet Kaiserslautern * Email:lambert@rhrk.uni-kl.de Fachbereich Elektrotechnik * Tel.:(+49) 631/205-3354 Lehrstuhl fuer Mikroelektronik * Fax.:(+49) 631/205-3616 Postfach 3049 * D-67653 Kaiserslautern * Geb.: 12 Raum:262 Germany * ________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 08:09:29 -0600 (CST) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> Character Archive ? > I am searching a archive, where I can > find all posted characters and superiors. > Because the in every other part marvelous > INC did not provide any of them. I'm planning on doing that with my web page. (Hopefully next week, Spring Break here) > Bye and tschuess, Marco. Oops da "Calabim of Sloth" Ogre ------------------------------ Date: 14 Mar 97 09:45:48 EST From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM> Subject: IN> Remnant restoration God forbid it from ever happening, but imagine someone you love in a bad accident. They loose a good portion of the cerebellum. They walk around like a zombie, a mere shadow of what they once were, hardly able to remember you from one moment to the next, let alone from the long history you two have. That is what a Remnant is like to a celestial. Now, imagine (as in Flowers for Algernon), a treatment that grows new cerebellum. Your loved one starts to become alert, active, and intelligent again. BUT... they don't grow back to their old self, they develop a new personality from the new blank slate they have. There may be a few haunting reminders of the old life, but now they are a new person looking at everything fresh. This is what a Remnant who regains Forces (however that happens) back up to Forces/9 is like. Now, I hope you all see why restoring a Remnant is problematic, at best, for a celestial. Peace, Moriah ------------------------------ Date: 14 Mar 97 09:45:52 EST From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM> Subject: IN> Gabriel and Mary >Patrick O'Duffy: >The conception of Jesus - well, Gabriel (male version) is often quoted as >being the 'divine inseminator' (sorry) of Mary, but that may be just hearsay. Ack! :) Mary said, "How can this be, since I do not know man?" Gabriel said, "The Spirit of the Most High God will overshadow you." NOT... Gabriel said, "Come here, baby, let me show you." Peace, Moriah ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 09:56:04 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> New Archangel. (Long) Part 1 I like the description of Charon very much. Only I don't see much purpose to his being the second Angel of Death and the vanishment of Azrael. If it were up to me, I'd let him be the first and only, named "Azrael," and only slightly younger than Yves and Eli. (There's a practice called "syncretism," whereby people from one religion identify figures in another religion with figures in their own. The commonest example is the match-up between Greek and Roman gods, where Zeus = Jupiter, Aphrodite = Venus, and so on. Anyone wanting to play the syncretism game with angels could readily cast Eli (creation), Yves (destiny), and Azrael/Charon (death) as Bramha (creator), Vishnu (sustainer), and Shiva (destroyer and renewer) of Hinduism, or Clotho (spinner), Lachesis (measurer), and Atropos (cutter), the three Fates of Greek mythology -- who have clear matches with the three Norns of Norse myth.) By the way, am I the only one who would like to have seen just Hebrew names for angels, and no anachronistic modern names? At least for Archangels. I can see an angel on Earth taking a contemporary name as a nom de guerre. Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 08:48:54 +0000 From: "Bodhi" Subject: IN> Safe Houses My friend and I have been toying with a concept, which is a little esoteric in its interpretation. Let me know what you think. This concept works best with a "cold war" style, but not too well with the "open war" style. Safe Houses In the espionage parlance, a "safe house" was one where an agent could "come in from the cold", and drop their cover, even if only for a few hours. It was a place that was hopefully unknown to the other side, and also a good spot to rendesvous with Superiors and other Agents, in order to get much needed information and equipment. In In Nomine, Tethers seem to form this function quite nicely, although they are hardly "unknown to the other side". However, here's a notion for an IN setting that we are toying with. Between the Sides in the War, there is an Agreement (... and NO, don't think about "Good Omens"...). The agreement is that Museums are off-limits to direct conflict between sides. Within the walls of Museums, both sides are free from repercussions, conflict, and immediate peril from their counter-parts. Museums represent Man's views on his own past. Museums can celebrate the Truth, or a twisted representation of the Truth. Museums can paint a picture of the past that is representative of Reality, or they can paint the past through the skewed eyes of Myth and Legend. Those who can not learn from the past may be doomed to repeat it, but most historians recognize that "The Past" is a relatively unknown quantity to us. Instead, what we have is a distillation of the past, as seen through the eyes of popular fiction and retrospect. Thus, Yves and Kronos have a unique role with respect to Museums. They both see their best "work" represented in Museum displays, as well as their opponents successes hailed as well. What is most especially frightening, however, is that sometimes the museum, while representing Man's view of His Past, unfortunately paints a picture that has forgotten which side "won" at the time. Our view of our past subtly changes with time. It doesn't always change the way Yves wants, and likewise for Kronos. Take the conquest of North America. Over the past 20 years, the emphasis has changed from the" Glorious Conquest of the Untamed Land" to "The Selfish Exploitation of the Indigenous Peoples". Whereas 20 years ago, historians would never bother to represent the fact that most of our "conquests" came at the direct expense of other people who had their way of life stripped from them, Museums today make an effort to remind us that our own Past comes at the expense of somebody else's heritage. Another example that a Prof. of History friend of mine always hauls out at parties is the way museums have changed our impressions of War. Immediately following World War II, museums would represent the American Participation in that War as "the be-all and end-all". After all, most Americans knew that they'd "gone over there and won the war for everybody". Today, museums are FAR more conservative in their depiction of the American participation, and pay more attention to the entire effort by all the allied sides. They also tend to emphasize how many people were killed on both sides, and attempt to remove some of the "glory" from their depictions. One final example about history and perception. In Canada, I always learned that the War of 1812 was a situation in which the Americans, upon seeing that England was busy elsewhere (France, Napoleon, etc.), decided that now was the right time to strike, and annex Canada. The Canadian Colonists, being for the most part without a standing army and military support, nevertheless mustered all they could (including a quite considerable fighting force of metis and native personnell), and managed to hold off the American aggressors. They even went to so far as to make forays into the United States, and captured Washingon, burning the city (but not destroying it). Knowing that they were outnumbered, and essentially fighting an outnumbered war of Defense, the Canadian forces retreated. Eventually, the Americans gave up their aggressive stance, and withdrew their efforts. However, I have met many americans who have a different view of this war. They talk about "winning the war of 1812", and "defeating the British". They also talk about "winning back Washington", and so on. PLEASE... this is an illustrative example. I make no comment on the validity of either interpretation. However, it does show that one's perception of the past is highly personal, as well as highly instructive. Thus, museums represent a kind of "running score-card" for humanity. They offer Celestials and Diabolicals a chance to see how well some of their greatest accomplishments are remembered. As well, it gives them a chance to remenisce, and perhaps complain a little bit about how nobody remembers how it "really was". Let's face it, sometimes, in a world in which these ephemeral mortals live and die in such a ridiculously short span of time, you have FAR more in common with the Other Side than you do with mortals. As well, museums offer a chance to show how well your side is doing. Do they depict the atrocities of war, or merely glorify them as heroic accomplishments, forgetting that hundreds of thousands of people died? Do they depict accurate information, or popular legend? While most Historians will argue that we can never really know what the past entails, do museums right now at least do a credible job of portaying our past, or are they subject to Diabolical Interference to such an extent that they've lost their credible position? Therefore, no action may be taken within the walls of a museum. Museums, which are usually nice and centrally located, could represent "Sanctuary". It could be nice. Imagine two attractive 'men' in trenchcoats, feeding the birds by the museum's pond, discussing old times, poking fun at each other, trying to figure out who is winning, maybe not even really caring anymore. Old Enemies, Old Friends. It's kind of an overly romanticized version of the Cold War, but we like that sort of stuff. Malakites need not visit the pond... but there must be some friendships between members of both sides out there. It is by no means an absolute necessity that you include Safe Houses in your campaign, but we like this perspective. It generates wonderful role-playing possibilities, and yet somehow we feel justified in their existence. Museums hold a special status, both due to their nature and by the tacit agreement of Yves and Kronos. Walk in Beauty, Rob Wolff / Bodhi rob@v-wave.com Nicholas Copernicus, Master Astronomer Stood up and Shouted, addressing the throng, "Abandon poor Ptolomy, Stand up and follow me, Heliocentrically, Ptolomy's Wrong!!" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 11:18:25 -0600 (CST) From: Shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> Highlander Race---- The Churahn On Wed, 12 Mar 1997, Thany wrote: > Another suggestion: > After killing another of their kind, any Churahn/Kaurneh may gain one > Skill of their victim at half the level they had it (round down). Where does this come from? I don't remember it from any of the movies, or the TV show. Shadowcat ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 10:35:20 +0800 From: s012433@umslvma.umsl.edu (Brian Gracey) Subject: Re: IN> Safe Houses [...huge snippet...] This is a great idea, even if it is Highlanderesque, and I had thought the same thing of Tethers, that they are safe houses to one side, but there was never really a place for the sides to meet. No neutral ground. Perhaps Museums could be kind of a cojoined Tether, a gateway to either Heaven or Hell (and even to the Marches, near and Far) and thus all can meet there in relative peace. Kronos and Yves go so far as to protect this staticity, allowing no harm to fall on any celestial in such a place (and, where Archangels and Princes are concerned, perhaps Lucifer or God themselves step in to keep the peace). I really like this idea, and I think that it can be worked more... Brian Gracey s012433@umslvma.umsl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 13:00:40 -0500 From: Hatcher Rhanyr Subject: IN>Re: Charon Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > I like the description of Charon very much. Only I don't see > much purpose to his being the second Angel of Death and the > vanishment of Azrael. If it were up to me, I'd let him be > the first and only, named "Azrael," and only slightly younger than > Yves and Eli. I think that what Brian is going for here goes along with a word-bound Celestial I posted to the list "Azrael". In most cases I've researched the entitly known as Azrael was either the Angel of Death or Vengence. In Hebrew Mythology it is easy to see how these two can be confused as being in captivity can often make one wish for Death/Vengence on your keepers. In the version of Azrael I posted he was the Supreme punisher....an Angel that was Gabriel's consort...He was the Angel of Vengence and was very emotionless about his role in the grand scheme of things (i.e. an Elohim)If you'd like my workup of Azrael feel free to e-mail me personally and that goes along with anyone else on the list. Hatcher - -- ************************************** _< >_ * Hatcher Rhanyr * / \0/ \ * "The Angel of Bright Shiney Teeth" * /_/| |\_\ * * / \ ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 13:07:09 -0500 From: Hatcher Rhanyr Subject: IN> The Realm of Faery among other things Right now one of my pet projects is adapting the Realm of Faery for use with In Nomine. If anyone would like to help me on this project feel free to send your thoughts and ideas to me. Also I was thinking about the musical Phantom of the Opera and recalled on of the songs being "Angel of Music" I thought that maybe this would be an interesting individual so here's my thoughts.Would he/she be an Archangel or a Word-Bound Celestial? Also as far as things go how would he/she fit in the grand scheme of things. Just a few thoughts for everyone to ponder. Hatcher - -- ************************************** _< >_ * Hatcher Rhanyr * / \0/ \ * "The Angel of Bright Shiney Teeth" * /_/| |\_\ * * / \ ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 13:34:29 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> The Realm of Faery among other things Concerning the Angel of Music -- I recommend the historical romance "The Serpent Garden," by Judith Merkle Riley. It is set early in the reign of Henry VIII, but also has a considerable fantasy element, in the form of two celestial characters, a demon named Belphagor and an angel named Hadriel. Hadriel is the Angel of Art. He appears to preside over all arts. We don't see music mentioned, but painting, sculpture, and knitting are, so music is surely included. He has an engaging, even cheeky, personality. While he works at furthering his Word, he also does general good deeds (like thwarting Belphagor). For In Nomine, he'd best be made an Archangel, but something along Novalis's line; he has no trouble standing up to Michael and Uriel, and even giving them pert answers. ("Have you no respect?" "I have lots of respect. I have respect for the Father, and for being an angel, and for my job. I just don't have a lot of respect for you.") He's a very hands-on angel, flitting about Earth far more than doing administrative stuff in Heaven. ("They don't give me enough help! It's been centuries since I was able to get to the Scythians, and they're still using the same old motifs!") (His help takes the form of tiny winged baby-angels, putti straight out of the Renaissance paintings he is busy inspiring in the course of the book.) Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 13:38:47 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Random questions. At 2:06 PM -0500 3/13/97, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >If there is, theoretically, any way at all of restoring a >remnant, wouldn't angels and Archangels sometimes attempt >it? Simply out of charity and mercy? [...] I get the impression that sometimes it's hard to find the victim -- they can't be traced by Heart or other celestial means, and if they've wandered away from the firefight, they may be presumed dead (Celestial forces toasted and body destoryed). Once you've found one, though, and somehow identified him as a remnant (instead of ye generic kooky homeless), you have to talk him into going with you... Which may be a problem. If it's hard enough to deal with them, it might be considered kinder for the remnants with Roles to just live out their lives with their friends and/or family (though with no Will or Perception left, they probably act like they've had a stroke). But yeah, you'd think that at least a few angels would be "remnant collection teams," searching for lost (literally) souls and at least getting them to a safe home. They are veterans of a war, after all. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 15:00:23 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> The Realm of Faery among other things "Right now one of my pet projects is adapting the Realm of Faery for use with In Nomine. If anyone would like to help me on this project feel free to send your thoughts and ideas to me." I don't know if you have a particular concept of Faery in mind, but here goes: I guess the obvious place for Faerie in the In Nomine universe is the Far Marches. But there is also a legend, going back to the Ballad of Thomas the Rhymer, that the fays have to pay a tribute to Hell every seven (or was it nine or ten?) of a number of their own -- seven, nine, or ten fays. We don't know if they become minor servitors, or get eaten, or what. Fays sometimes collect people, both while living, and at death. In Nomine already says that some human souls go to the Marches when they die; some might go to Faery in particular. Humans taken to Faery typically wind up becoming fays, unless they are rescued or escape soon (like before a certain amount of time, or before eating any fay food). Of course, that wouldn't apply to anyone who WANTED to end up in Faery. Fays themselves have had a great many origins given to them. They have been a separate race, or heathen dead, or minor demons, or minor angels. So no matter what origin you choose to give them, you'll match some existing mythology. A good "standard" author for information on fairy mythology is Katherine Briggs, who has written many titles on the subject. Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 15:08:03 -0600 (CST) From: Thany Subject: Re: IN> Demon Prince Suggestion... On Thu, 13 Mar 1997, Andrew Getting wrote: > There was a Demon Prince of Procrastination. Haagenti met up with him. *burp* How about a Demon Prince of Apathy? (I volunteer) - -- "Moments ago, I had everything; Now, I have a cow in my nose. This state will continue forever Because I opened the stupid door." - _La Salla_ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #71 ****************************** The material here is (C) 1996 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.