From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Mar 17 11:15:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by deliverator.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA05987; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 10:01:15 -0600 (CST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA17848 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 17 Mar 1997 10:03:53 -0600 Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 10:03:53 -0600 Message-Id: <199703171603.KAA17848@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #74 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, March 17 1997 Volume 01 : Number 074 In this digest: Re: IN> Religion IN> Intolerance IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #73 IN> Totems and Angels Re: IN> Secret Bible IN> [THEO] OT and the Jews IN> IS/MV v. IN IN> Breeding projects Re: IN> [THEO] OT and the Jews IN> Bright Lilim "Choir" Attunements IN> The Realm of Faery among other things IN> Don't Laugh, My word-bound Demon: IN> A matter of names... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 16 Mar 97 12:51:06 -0600 (CST) From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting) Subject: Re: IN> Religion At 05:21 AM 3/16/97 -0500, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote: >> Zoroastrianism was a major influence on Judaism; I think it's where they >> got their monotheism and dualism (God vs. Satan) from, whereas before they >> had worshipped a tribal god, and Satan was believed to be a member of the >> Host. The cosmology is kind of interesting: they believe in two gods >> (perhaps better described as elementa forces): a god of goodness and >> light names Ohrmazd, and a god of evil and darkness named ahriman, but the >(snip) >what the heck is this sure they were or tribal origin but they in no way >got there monthisem from anyone else at least not according to the >torah. History says different. >How can you say that a jewish theme would be any different then a >christian theme. Well, for starters, the massive difference between the way the Jews did things and the way the Christians did. >The christian religion is just another form of the >jewish religion in a way they both have the same exact old testiment. You'd be amazed. >They just don't believe that jesus was the son of god and there is where >things change. "Just"? That's a major theological change. >You could just explain it as angels debate whether jesus >was really God's son. Maybe what you said here was one of the reason for >the spanish inquisition and the holocaust. The crisitian population at >large doesn't seem to relize that there is not all that big a difference >and that all cristians desendents were jews. So hitler's law about >killing all people with jewish desent world have killed all the cristian >too. I seem to remember that not a few Catholics found themselves in camps, too. Kestrel ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 14:57:50 -0800 From: Ross Winn Subject: IN> Intolerance I have a funny feeling that Neil has never taken either a class in history or comparative religion. Neil, If you would allow me: All of the worlds major religions have much in common. This neither supports or denies the validity of any specific religion. Religion is a personal choice, but so is ignorance. Read Rudolph Bultmann's Jesus Christ & Mythology for one perspective. There are also others. > Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 05:21:42 -0500 > From: Neil Goldman > Subject: Re: IN> Religion > > > Zoroastrianism was a major influence on Judaism; I think it's where they > > got their monotheism and dualism (God vs. Satan) from, whereas before they > > had worshipped a tribal god, and Satan was believed to be a member of the > > Host. The cosmology is kind of interesting: they believe in two gods > > (perhaps better described as elementa forces): a god of goodness and > > light names Ohrmazd, and a god of evil and darkness named ahriman, but the > (snip) > what the heck is this sure they were or tribal origin but they in no way > got there monthisem from anyone else at least not according to the > torah. How can you say that a jewish theme would be any different then a > christian theme. The christian religion is just another form of the > jewish religion in a way they both have the same exact old testiment. > They just don't believe that jesus was the son of god and there is where > things change. You could just explain it as angels debate whether jesus > was really God's son. Maybe what you said here was one of the reason for > the spanish inquisition and the holocaust. The crisitian population at > large doesn't seem to relize that there is not all that big a difference > and that all cristians desendents were jews. So hitler's law about > killing all people with jewish desent world have killed all the cristian > too. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 15:07:05 -0800 From: Ross Winn Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #73 Well, there were books included in some versions of the Bible that have not been present in others. There were whole Gospels left out of what we consider the Bible (like the Gospel of Mary) that have been either lost or suppressed over time. I use as a source "The Other Bible", a collection of works that some _people_ considered improper (so the call them apocrypha). In the modern times there is the book of Mormon. Hey Moriah, want to sit down for a session of Creedo? Peace, Spyke! > Umm... The Bible is a collection of 'books'. The collection was made by > religious authorities. What they included is called 'canon'. What they did > not include is not canon. There can be no such thing as "a part of the Bible > not included in the Bible". If it was not included, it is not Bible. The > Protestants excluded a few Old Testament books from their canon; but other > than that, there are no 'edited out' parts (except for minor transcription > errors). And the thousands of ancient texts which were never part of the > Bible are not 'left-out parts of the Bible' -- they never were Bible to begin > with. > > Sorry to rant on about my pet peeve of how there is/was a conspiracy to > suppress 'secret' parts of the Bible. :) > > However, it does make a good adventure seed; in fact, it was used in "The > Prophecy" -- a must see movie for all IN NOMINE fans. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 18:27:47 +0000 From: "Bodhi" Subject: IN> Totems and Angels Well, I know I'm gonna tick off a few people with this sort of post, but I just have to see how this idea works for the rest of you... ...and remember, please, that we are currently lacking a `hard and fast' set of conditions for word-bound angels, so if things need a little fixing later on, bear with me, okay? __Totemism and Shamanism__ In Shamanistic traditions, different animals represent different personality archetypes, as well as different sets of rules, regulations, priorities, and interests. It is not surprising, therefore, that we discover that each of these archetypes has a guiding Angel that has been furthering it. Each of these Totemic Angels is a word-bound servitor of Jordi with THREE levels of distinction. They are the most powerful soldiers in the army of the Archangel of Animals. Each one of them has adopted a specific animal archetype, and they have dedicated their existence to furthering the importance of that specific archetype in the symphony. While their Word may cross certain boundaries with other angels, their main focus is on the archetype as a whole. Thus, while Dog places emphasis on `loyalty', the Totemic Angel Dog attempts to further the whole archetype of `Dog', of which loyalty is only a part. The totemic angel of Eagle, similarly, attempt to further "Eagle-ness", rather than any one overly-specific word. Thus, it is important to recognize that different archetypes may have multiple aspects, and as such, may represent a hybrid of what other, less open-minded Celestials would label as `Words'. However, to the animal world, these archetypes blend as a smooth Concept, and they are seen as indivisible. The Totemic Angels feel no pressure to over-emphasize merely one aspect of their Totem Archtype: instead, they further their Concept as a Whole. Jordi, the Kyriotate leader of the Totems, understands each totem individually, and therefore works to guide them in unison. While other Celestials have often found it strange that each of the seven choirs of angels are so perfectly represented within Jordi's power structure, Jordi has taken this occurance as a sure sign that there is some Divine Wisdom in his Realm. Thus, each choir is properly attuned to a specific archetype, with Jordi as a kyriotate rounding out the picture and coordinating everything. The following is a list of Totemic Angels, all in service to Jordi. Each one is listed as being word-bound to a totemic Concept. They each endeavour to further the concept as a whole, but the particular Archetype/Concept may engender many different aspects. Each Totem also possesses ALL of the choir attunements for Jordi (animal-type affinities), as well as all his Servitor attunements and Distinctions. They all are exceptionally important to Jordi's plans, and thus are equally important to his scheme of things. They all understand that every animal-type is important, and brings a lesson. However, each one of them is particularly attuned to the particular animal shape they attempt to further in the Symphony. Each Totem, as well as their servants, can generate essence by spending 24 hours in their particular Animal form (regardless of whether they spend essence or not, as opposed to the rite normally assigned by Jordi), as this allows one to truly understand and appreciate the archetype they are attempting to further. As well, however, they have another Rite which can generate essence by furthering a particular aspect of their Totem, depending upon which archetype they represent. _Totem Angels_ Bear, Word-bound Elohim of "Bear", Servitor of Jordi Bear is the wisest of the Totems. Unwilling to see one side over any of the others, Bear struggles to emphasize wisdom, healing, compassion, and introspection. Bear is slow to move, but when motion comes, Bear will come to the defense of those that are the most deserving. Slow to anger, slow of speech, but with the largest heart, Bear understands the need for understanding, wisdom, strength, and patience. Rite of Bear Bear and his servants can generate essence by counselling wisely. For every four hours spent in counsel with someone who needs it. (and/or by spending 24 hours in bear form) ________________ Coyote, Word-bound Mercurial of "Coyote", Servitor of Jordi Coyote, a Mercurial, is often misunderstood. While the most independant of all the totems, Coyote is the greatest Trickster. However, his main purpose is to Trick one for their own good. One never forgets the dealings that they have with Coyote: if He makes you an offer that seems too good to be true, it probably is! As a Mercurial, he always seems to know what you need most out of life, but his lessons come at a very dear price! He attempts to teach others their own value, and the strength they need to stand on their own two feet. However, his lessons are often two-edged. Not the most beloved of the Totems, and certainly the most often maligned, Coyote is nevertheless one of the most important and powerful of the Totems. Rite of Coyote Coyote and his servants generate essence by tricking somebody for their own good. They are cruel, but only to be kind. When they perform some type of prank, jape, or backfiring-contract that teaches somebody a lesson, they gain one point of essence. (and/or by spending 24 hours in coyote form) _______________ Dog, Word-bound Cherubim of "Dog", Servitor of Jordi Dog, a Cherub, is fiercely devoted to his friends and his territory. Dog is the great Defender. Once his devotion is given, it is never taken back again. Dog will defend those he loves to the bitter end, and he endeavours to teach others the importance of such devotion. While not the greatest warrior, Dog serves as a reminder that a brave heart will overcome the mightiest opposition. Light-hearted, loving, and friendly, Dog shows us that you have to Love in order to Live. Dog is never apathetic, but is instead fiercely attached to that which is in his care. Rite of Dog Dog and his servants can generate essence by guarding that which they Love. When they patrol and protect the object of their attunement for 8 hours (usually, throughout the night), they generate an one point of essence. (and/or by spending 24 hours in in dog form) _______________ Eagle, Word-bound Seraphim of "Eagle", Servitor of Jordi Eagle flies highest, sees furthest, and lives in the purest surroundings. As a Seraph, he knows that the highest reaches are inhabited only by those with the purest of heart. Eagle knows that the Truth is the path which allows one to fly highest, and therefore come closest to God's Will. He sees all, and is never swayed by illusion, trickery, or lies. From his lofty position, he always sees the big picture, and knows that sometimes sacrifices have to be made in order for the greater Good. He is above everything, looking down from his lofty position, proud and solitary. This lesson he teaches to those that will listen, for he knows that, in order to truly achieve understanding, one must aim for the highest peaks, and one must fly alone! Rite of Eagle Eagle and his servants can generate essence by soaring above in the heavens. When they fly, non-stop for 8 hours, they generate one point of essence. This is in addition to the essence they can gain by spending 24 hours in eagle form. __________________ Raven, Word-bound Ofanim of "Raven", Servitor of Jordi Raven is the bringer of Change. As an Ofanim, Raven cannot stand to see the world stagnate. When a change must occur, Raven flies swiftly in to evoke it! Raven, may be a trickster, but he is nowhere near the league of Coyote. Raven is the bringer of new things, new places, new ideas. Raven teaches the people that which it is time to learn. When the world has become complacent, and is ready to move on, it is Raven who swoops in from his journeys to show the world something new, something exciting, something different. He explores, he challenges, he is the bringer of transformation! Rite of Raven Raven and his servants can generate essence by bringing change in people's lives. Whenever they significantly (GM discretion!!) alter somebody's life, they gain one point of essence. (and/or by spending 24 hours in raven form). ___________________ Wolf, Word-bound Malakim of "Wolf", Servitor of Jordi As a Malakim, Wolf understands that Honour and Virtue are the most important aspects. Wolf is the defender of the pack, and loyal to all those under his care. Loyalty, Duty, Honour, and Virtue are the hallmarks of Wolf. However, Wolf's main strength lies in his ability to do battle. When the time comes for a fight, Wolf is there! Wolf fights, either alone or in a pack, with every fibre of his being. He places himself between the Evils of the world, and the object of his protection. Wolf wins all battles, except the last one. Rite of Wolf Wolf and his servants can generate essence by battling those who endanger the pack. Whenever they combat Evil, they generate one point of essence. (usually, this point is immediately spent during the course of the battle... for this reason, they are extremely good fighters!!). They also generate essence by staying in wolf form for 24 hours. ____________________________________ Well, there it is. It is not for everybody, but it provides a nice way to move shamanism and totemism into the sphere of In Nomine. Thus, all "wise-men" and "medicine men" are truly HOLY, as they are all merely passing on the lessons learned through their ultimate benifactor Jordi. Since Jordi is simply furthering an understanding of God's Will (albeit through the symbolism of animals...), we can see that shamans and totems have a lot to offer in the way of understanding the Divine. Walk in Beauty, Rob Wolff / Bodhi rob@v-wave.com Nicholas Copernicus, Master Astronomer Stood up and Shouted, addressing the throng, "Abandon poor Ptolomy, Stand up and follow me, Heliocentrically, Ptolomy's Wrong!!" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 19:15:08 -0800 (PST) From: Raven <94fa193@dvc.edu> Subject: Re: IN> Secret Bible On 16 Mar 1997, Moriah - Steve Jackson Games wrote: > Sorry to rant on about my pet peeve of how there is/was a conspiracy to > suppress 'secret' parts of the Bible. :) Whoah whoah whoah there... I never said anything about any conspiracy. I put in that last paranthetical comment so that my statement wouldn't be interpreted as a cospiracy theory. Sorry if I wasn't semantically precise there; true, if it was left out then it never was part of the Bible, and so describing it as 'a part of the bible that was cut' is inaccurate. Oh well. I was just pointing it out as another example of why the Oxford Study Bible is so nifty. You just don't get to see those other parts much, and even if they weren't 'official', there's still some interesting stuff in them. > However, it does make a good adventure seed; in fact, it was used in "The > Prophecy" -- a must see movie for all IN NOMINE fans. I agree. Much more useful a video-sourcebook than a movie. :) Plot was bretty bare, but the ideas about the nature of angels rocked. And Satan had some of the BEST lines... |\ /| | | |~~~ |\ | "It's a hundred and six miles to Chicago, we've |_\ /_| | | |__ | \| got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, |\ | | \ | | | | it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." | \ | | \| |___ | | "Hit it." ------------------------------ Date: 17 Mar 97 01:50:24 EST From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM> Subject: IN> [THEO] OT and the Jews >John Maurer: >Not to be contentious, but as someone who almost became a priest, I just >love these discussions... :) > >>what the heck is this sure they were or tribal origin but they in no way >>got there monotheism from anyone else at least not according to the >>torah. > >Well, actually the Jews originally referred to god as "Elohim" which is often >translated as "gods". Well, to be contentious, since I am a priest... :) 'Elohim' *can* be translated as 'gods', but by the time of the writing of the OT, it was used as a singular (though still a plural form) to mean 'The God.' Sort of like the English use of pants or scissors. >They also had great reverence for "Sophia" the >goddess of wisdom who was the only real rival to "YHVH". Ack! Sophia was not a goddess, but a manifestation of Yahweh's wisdom, personified as female. >Remember that when >you say "the Torah" you are refering to a LOT of books, Five, to be precise. ;) >Do you really contend that there is not a different theme in the New >Testiment than in the Old Testiment? In the OT God is a tribal god of wrath >who smites the enemies and is only interested in his chosen people. Ack, again! You need to read through the entire OT. Gods of wrath do not establish covenants with people. Also, in the prophets, you have a portrayal of a God who is also merciful and kind. "Though a mother forget her child within her womb, I will not forget you." "The Lord is full of kindness and plenteous redemption." "Love the Lord your God with all your heart." The Book of Jonah is about God's mercy to those outside the tribe (the Ninevites were the citizens of the capital of Assyria [remember that, Monty Python fans]); a hated enemy of the Jews. And yet Jonah is taught that God is merciful even to them -- something which Jonah (the good Jew) bitterly resents. >In the NT God becomes a universal saviour and a turn the other cheek type >guy. Except toward the non-repentant hypocrites who are 'serpents' and 'devil's food' who will gash their teeth in the fires of Gehennah. >A) There is a large difference between Judism and Christianity. One >celebrates the saviour in Jesus and the other is still waiting. One is a >Race of People and the other is a conglomerate of adherants. The Jews are more than one race, now. And even Gentiles can become Jews - -- at least in the Reformed movement. >They follow different taboos (meat on friday vs. the entire kosher laws). Both would argue that these are not taboos. Besides, it's just Catholics who have a few very minor dietary laws -- which the Catholic Church teaches is *custom* and not law or taboo. >Early Christians BLAMED the Jews for the death of Jesus Jesus didn't. He forgave them. Paul didn't -- he said that the Jewish covenant is still in effect (also, he was still a practicing Jew -- he hardly blamed himself for Jesus' death). The gospel writers didn't. OK, the gospel of John is down on 'the Jews' -- but it's clear through context that he was referring to some of the Jewish leaders (after all, the Apostles were Jews). Yes, historically, there was a blame assigned to all living Jews for the actions of the few Jewish leaders who arranged for Jesus' death. Roman Catholicism has apologized for doing so in the past. >B) Few Christians these days are decended from Jews. In order to be >decended from Jews, you must have a Jewish mother. The Jewish line is >matrelinial. Jews are a RACE as well as a religion. Most modern christians >are decended from Saxon, or African converts. Pssst. Don't say that in front of the Native American descendants in all of Latin America. ;) Peace, Moriah ------------------------------ Date: 17 Mar 97 01:50:18 EST From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM> Subject: IN> IS/MV v. IN >Raven: >Of course, if there was no such article, then it would be a project, and >I could understand it being such a low priority. I suppose the next >question is, WAS there ever any pyramid article about it? If so, where >can I find it? There is no such article about the differences b/t IS/MV & IN AFAIK. P, Moriah ------------------------------ Date: 17 Mar 97 01:50:15 EST From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM> Subject: IN> Breeding projects >Raven >What do we have established so far? The Grigori mated with humans, >producing both the monstrous Nephallim and the human+ (read: >human plus) Children of Grigori. Some official SJG guy (Moriah?) posted a >theory on celestial-human interbreeding in which the offspring are born >either as enhanced humans, or as 'chrysalids', a normal human body housing a >developing celestial soul. That was John Karakash who was musing (non-canonically, and he was specific that it wasn't canon) about possible breeding outcomes. What is canon (thus saith me) is that of all the breeding possibilities, you can only get a celestial or a human. Period. *Some* of those human children *might* possess some extra gifts (e.g., have a ready Potential to become Soldiers or Sorcerers) -- but definitely not most. A 'Child of the Grigori' does not refer to the human children, but to those who are celestial in nature. Peace, Moriah IN NOMINE Line Editor ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 06:27:17 -0500 From: Shawn Goldman Subject: Re: IN> [THEO] OT and the Jews Moriah - Steve Jackson Games wrote: > > >John Maurer: > >Not to be contentious, but as someone who almost became a priest, I just > >love these discussions... :) > > > >>what the heck is this sure they were or tribal origin but they in no way > >>got there monotheism from anyone else at least not according to the > >>torah. > > > >Well, actually the Jews originally referred to god as "Elohim" which is often > >translated as "gods". > > Well, to be contentious, since I am a priest... :) > > 'Elohim' *can* be translated as 'gods', but by the time of the writing (snip) well said ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 10:00:38 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Bright Lilim "Choir" Attunements (If one showed up, she would probably get some kind of "Choir" attunement "bennie" from her Superior -- eventually. Walter Milliken and I came up with some suggestions...) (And then there's the question of what a Bright Lilim looks like in celestial form. Keep the color, lose the horns, gain peacock-irridescent wings, maybe?) - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Reactions of the various Archangels to Lilim seeking Redemption are noted in [brackets]. Archangelic reactions to Lilim may also be taken as a guideline to how likely Lilith is to have traded "favors" with the Archangel in question, and to how the Archangel will react to his servitors making deals with Lilim or even Lilith herself. The smart Lilim looking for Redemption would be best advised to approach Marc, whose Word has a strong connection with the Lilim resonance. Eli and Novalis are generally also laid-back enough to listen to a request for Redemption, and Yves might well accept one, knowing something about the likely outcome. Janus might take service from one just to upset things. None of these Archangels is likely to do anything unpleasant in response to a sincere request. Most of the others would be likely to grant Redemption only under unusual circumstances, and approaching them ranges from mildly risky to outright suicidal. Generally, any Archangel with a hostile reaction is unlikely to grant Redemption unless the Lilim in question has done a great service to his Word, as well as being truly repentant. A Lilim approaching such a hostile Archangel is taking a great risk. On a good day, a hostile Archangel might recommend seeking out someone "more compatible". (On a very good day, she might get an introduction: "Here, she's looking for a softy, and I thought of you." On a bad day, the Lilim is likely to get a squad of Malikim as a response.... After the reaction note is listed the "Choir" Attunement that may eventually be granted a Bright Lilim serving that Superior. A character starting as a Bright Lilim bound to the Archangel's service gets this free, just as for any normal angel. A starting "free" Lilim might be able to purchase these Attunements for 5 points, but Asmodeus will consider possession of such attunements to be evidence of a lack of commitment to evil.... (Asmodeus probably has a special interest in Bright Lilim, as well, since they are, without exception, defectors.) Renegade or "free" Lilim seeking Redemption after character creation must pay the usual price for Choir Attunements (5 points), as well as earning them from their new Superior through exceptional service. Blandine ======== [indifferent, would most like ones with high Ethereal Forces] In the Marches, the Lilim's natural resonance is always active and successful, with a check digit equal to the angel's Ethereal Forces. As for Elohim, Lilim may make resonance rolls in an attempt to improve the check digit. David ===== [generally hostile to Lilim, and vice versa] The very few Lilim in service to David can sense the best way to shape stone and minerals (especially gemstones). (Note that diamonds are often used to represent bonds of love and loyalty -- which comes under David's goals well enough.) Dominic ======= [hostile unless the Lilim is *clearly* loyal to Good] Dominic's Lilim are used to find the weaknesses of other angels, which might lead them to Fall. Eli === [generally positive toward Lilim] Lilim of Eli can use their resonance to sense the drive to create, and, with higher check digits, tell what would best inspire a creative person to produce a masterwork. Gabriel ======= [indifferent to mildly positive] Gabriel's Lilim can determine exactly what punishment an offender needs to truly repent of his cruelty. Like her Malakim, Gabriel's Lilim are assigned to specific cases. Janus ===== [positive?] The Lilim of Janus may add their Ethereal Forces to any attempt to Geas someone into an action that disrupts the status quo. Jean ==== [generally positive, especially to one turned from Vapula] Jean's Lilim have the same abilities as Vapula's, but different motivations and goals. Jordi ===== [mildly hostile to indifferent] Lilim attuned to Jordi can automatically sense the needs of any animal they touch. They can then command one simple service from any animal whose need they've fulfilled. Jordi's Lilim are most often associated with release-to-wild programs and other activities that free animals from the constraints of Man. Laurence ======== [strongly hostile] If Laurence accepted Lilim at all, he would use them to help gather intelligence from the other side. Such a Lilim could apply her Celestial Forces as a penalty to the Will roll of any demon's attempt to resist her Geas. Marc ==== [strongly positive... "Have I got a deal for you...."] Marc's Lilim can automatically use their resonance to determine what a person most would like to trade for. If a Lilim of Trade makes a deal using her resonance, the other party is automatically Geased to keep the bargain. (This does not apply to unspecified future favors, just direct and clearly-stated exchanges.) Michael ======= [mildly hostile] The rare Lilim of Michael can use their resonance to determine an opponent's "Achilles Heel" -- i.e., the person's greatest weakness in combat. This is as useful when training someone as it is in real combat. Novalis ======= [moderately positive] Novalis' Lilim can use their resonance on an angry or violent person to tell what would calm them down or make them peaceful. They can also sense the needs of plants, of course -- but it's hard to get favors in return.... Yves ==== [moderately positive] Lilim in service to Yves can tell whether fulfilling a need detected by their resonance will lead the subject toward his Destiny, his Fate, or neither. ("Both" equally counts as a "neither.") - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The Yves attunement may be a little powerful -- it would be the only "sure" way to tell if something was likely to advance a subject's Fate or Destiny. On the other hand, they have to succeed in their resonance roll first, and presumably would be required to aid Destiny and resist Fate once they'd discovered that in a Need, just as with the Yves' Divine Destiny Attunement. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 10:41:39 -0500 From: "Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki" Subject: IN> The Realm of Faery among other things >Right now one of my pet projects is adapting the Realm of Faery for use >with In Nomine. If anyone would like to help me on this project feel >free to send your thoughts and ideas to me. Well, there is a legend that the Fae are angels that chose neither side during the original War in Heaven, and so were banished to Earth for their indifference. This also explains the capricious nature of the Fae -- sometimes good, sometimes evil. I think a lot could be done with this idea. Personally, if I were going to use the Fae in In Nomine, I would rule that the above is a corrupt version of the Truth as the Seraphs would have it.. The Fae were (and are, tho few are left) children of Grigori that were more celestial than human, but were not as monstrous as the Nephilim. They carved out the Otherworld in the Marches, but this made them vulnerable to the beliefs of mankind, reducing them from powerful figures to little winged things over time... Not to mention that Urial probably wiped out a good number, if not all, of them. -Loki (trapped in the Marches) - -- Kirt "Loki" Dankmyer PGP key avail. My opinions are my own. love * Eris * RPGs * Anime * Magick * Carroll * techno * hats * cats * Dada I waked, she fled, and day brought back my night. --Milton ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 09:42:06 -0600 (CST) From: Brian Emord Subject: IN> Don't Laugh, My word-bound Demon: Astaroth Demon of Ignorance Balseraph Shortly after the Fall, the manifestation in opposition of Knowledge came into being. Astaroth, once a servitor of Yves in the great library began his descent into the minds of men and angels. The fall corrupted his outlook on knowledge and viewed his state as proof that no knowledge, not even Yves could prevent the inevitable and thus sought to destroy knowledge. In early manifestations he inspired rulers to fear that which they did not know rather than learn and record for posterity. This came in the form of genocide, rioting, and pillaging. Babylon, Alexandria, Rome, Carthage, many great cities of knowledge and learning were set to blaze but hints and insinutaions at the unknown. This lead to his word-binding. With this came the dream of prince-dom, and with the Dark Ages quickly dawning, he felt the scepter of princely power enter his grasp. He was seated in a great sacked city within the walls of Hell, but just as knowledge is fleeting, so is ignorance. After a VERY short reign (by princely standards), Astaroth was deposed as the dawning of the Rennaissance came to the world. Not to say that ignorance was no more, but rather with such an insurgence of knowledge and free thought, there was little that the lax demon could do against the onslaught. By the time he had recognized the threat it was already too late and he lost his principality. Other great obstacles laid in the way of ignorance in the future: industrialization, national institutions, museums, universities, colleges, and then almost insult to injury: public schools. His word weakened in North America and Europe, he set about indoctrinating his word in the East and South. For awhile he was successful, but then when trade re-opened to the East and when explorers sought Darkest Africa or the lost Incan cities, he lost grip on more power. In one last grasp for power he began power-plays of alliances and treaties. The explosion of the Great War was beyond even his greatest expectations. But this quickly faded as soon as the war ended. Again setting his sights low, he aimed at organized crime, but this got him no where. He rejoiced at the failure of Marc in the late 20's and early 30's, but didn't realize his full potential in affecting the depression until too late as he concentrated on a short little German. The second World War inspired by many forces, but ignorance and blind faith admittedly two of the strongest powers that guided the war. With the initial victory over the continental Europe and the confusion and espionage that it incurred, Astaroth made his last plea to Satan for his prince-dom back, but was denied at the last minute his Empire of ignorance crumbled under the blast of Vapula's Bomb. He has spent the last few decades working on enhancing the confusion and hatred between the East and West, but again angelic difficulties (fall of the Soviet Union) ended this great endeavor. Due to his roller coaster of power he has only a small retinue of servitors, most of which are throw-backs to his days as a prince. Dissonance: It is dissonant for any demon of ignorance to remove the clouds of doubt and the uncertainty of the repurcussions of their actions. Further, they cannot enlighten anyone (excepting other demons of ignorance) as to the workings of anything to which they have power or knowledge. Attunements: Balseraph-- Rather than warping the truth into lies, they alter misconceptions, superstition, and beliefs about the unknown into the 'truth' as it concerns the affected person. Djinn-- While attuned to someone the djinn can ravage the basis of rational thought within the individual until all that they 'know' is supposition and hearsy. Calabim-- Their resonance works on INFORMATION. Disks will be wiped clean, books become blank, memories (recent or not oft thought of concepts first higher difficulty to destroy ingrained memories). Check digit is rough percentage of RANDOM data lost. Habbalah-- Rather than causing emotional duress from 'thin air' these demons concentrate a person's fears, suppositions and ignorance into emtional stress. Lilim-- These demons add their celestial forces to an attempt to geas someone into destroying information or causing the spread of ignorance. Shedim-- Will of victim is reduced byt the demon's ethereal forces when the demon is trying to make him do somehting that he is either ignorant of, unaware of, or simply ignorant to the workings of (ie a true hick to use a computer). Impudite-- If the demon can infect his target with some kind of ignorance or fear of the unknown, then he can steal TWICE the Essence (to the maximum that the person has) in a resonance attempt. Servitor Lies, All Lies: Similar to the Seraph detect lie ability, this allows the servitor to tell whether or not the potential liar is telling what he believes to be true is due to ignorance or due to his own manipulations. Modern Dark Age <-- Any other suggestions??? By spending 2 essence per person the demon wishes to affect (to a maximum of his celestial forces) he can have them interpret a sign, image, or oration the wrong way, or ignore the enlightening effects of teachers and books (negating any potential for learning from that source) for one day. Distinctions: Knight of Stupidity: By concentrating on someone and spending one essence, the knight can sense the one thing that the person has little or no knowledge, but wishes to learn about. Captain of Twisted Memories: These are the most feared vassals of ignorance, as they can twist known and unknown concepts into knots that cannot be deciphered. By spending 4 essence, they can change a 'truth' into whatever they chose. For example, they could change the answers in the back of a particular book, change a few 1's to 0's in machine code, or make a Macintosh a real computer, but they couldn't change pi to equal 4 or any universally affecting 'constant'. Baron of Shadow Thoughts: Sadly due to his decline in power this is only a title as he is no longer able to supply their title distinction. Rites: Spread dissent through ignorance for 2 hours. Instigate and participate in a large scale (500 or more) book/art burning (3 essence). Invocation: Base:0 <-- You called, sorry I didn't get the message. +1 A book once held as canon that is no longer accepted as true. +2 Any documentary about WWII atrocities. +3 Any "3rd grade reading level" Bible. +4 Ashes from a burned out library. +5 Classified Government (any government) documents. +6 Inside Congress (or any other bloated beaucracy) while in session. Well tell me what you think, this is my first attempt at such things, so please phrase any and all comments in the form of constructive crticism. I hope you like him, i think he would make a good side character in any campaign... Brian Emord - --* BEGIN GEEKCODE BLOCK *-- GCS/E d(+)>++ s+:+ a? C+++(++++)$ UBLAHS++$ P+++$ L++ E W++ N o K++ w O++ M-->--- V-- PS(++) PE(+)(-) Y+ PGP- t+@ 5+@ X R+(+++)* tv b++>+++ DI+++$ D G++ e(*)>++++ h+(*) r++>+++ y+ - --* END GEEKCODE BLOCK *-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 11:04:09 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> A matter of names... At 9:56 AM -0500 3/14/97, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >By the way, am I the only one who would like to have seen just >Hebrew names for angels, and no anachronistic modern names? At >least for Archangels. I can see an angel on Earth taking a >contemporary name as a nom de guerre. I'm not sure if many of the Archangels have names that are *really* anachronistic. David is a good Hebrew name (just as Elizabeth is, or any number of other names that I could look up in my Great Name Compilation on my little Powerbook...), and I suspect that Dominic has equally-deep roots. Novalis may not be "authentic" in any way, but it sounds cool. Jordi, I don't know about, but wouldn't be surprised if it came from some culture's ancient past... If I'm mind-blanking on one, tell me, and I'll start searching my name-data... (For myself, I've been thinking that celestials created by a Superior ought to have some "old-sounding" name (or just plain cool-sounding); it would sync with my notion of pulling a minor tune out of the Symphony and making it celestial-"flesh"... Of course, I have the opinion that each celestial ought to have a unique, individual name...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #74 ****************************** The material here is (C) 1996 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.