From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Mar 21 14:02:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by deliverator.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA06336; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 14:00:52 -0600 (CST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA03406 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 14:03:58 -0600 Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 14:03:58 -0600 Message-Id: <199703212003.OAA03406@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #85 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, March 21 1997 Volume 01 : Number 085 In this digest: Re: IN> Evil Angel ? Re: IN> Evil Angel ? Re: IN> road to hell (from Fundamentalist Manipulation) IN> An Unusual Angel Re: IN> Re: Fundamentalists Re: IN> Fundamentalist Manipulation IN> Yet another inspiration thought!!!! Re: IN> Re: Fundamentalists Re: IN> Yet another inspiration thought!!!! IN> Amraphel, Demon of Paranoia Re: IN> Amraphel, Demon of Paranoia IN> The Inquisition Re: IN> Evil Angel ? Re: IN> Re: Magic Re: IN> Yet another inspiration thought!!!! Re: IN> New/Old Demonprince / Great Minds Think Alike IN> Souls and 0 Forces IN> In Nomine: Rules Questions ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 07:47:37 -0500 (EST) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> Evil Angel ? On Thu, 20 Mar 1997, Raven wrote: > > On Thu, 20 Mar 1997, Marco Lambert wrote: > > > At first I think for our world you are mostly right. > > The inquisition was largely evil. > > BUT a lot of the inquisitors thought not only they were > > right they also were sure to work for God and the good > > side. > > (Look also ongoing discussion about fundamentalism) > > Maybe a /select few/ thought so... But from what I've read, mostly they > were in it for the money. That's fine. The Angels behind the inquisition can be of the select few. All Angels in In Nomine (I believe) are likely to have to be pragmatic to some degree or other. Its seems plausible that the Angels behind the inquisition let their pragmatism get away with them in their single-minded rush to combat the *really big* evil (or what they *saw* as the really big evil). They could even have been so completely focussed on what they were doing (Cherubim anyone?) that they didn't even *realise* teh abuses that were going on. It happens. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 08:02:32 -0600 (CST) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> Evil Angel ? > Did you ever notice how, in the Bible, whenever God needed to > punish someone or make an example, or whenever God needed a > Killing, he sent an angel? Did you ever wonder what a creature > like that must be like? The whole existance spent praising > your God, but always with one wing dipped in blood? > > Would you ever really want to see an angel? Nice quote. I suppose I should see the movie... > Now granted, this mostly applies to the Malikim, but it also applies more > generaly to all the rest of the choirs as well.... Quote from discussing the concept of In Nomine with a non-gaming coworker: "These angels aren't angels." > And remember... Just becaues your Seelie doesn't mean you can't be > nice...:) Don't you mean _un_seelie? Oops da Ogre, who hopes The Marches will do a good job with the Fae and other gods... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 09:06:37 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> road to hell (from Fundamentalist Manipulation) Aziraphael as a seraph works reasonably well, except that he's not as intense as IN depicts seraphim being -- but then, that could just be IN's ethnic stereotyping... I think Crowley's an Impudite, just not any damned good at it. He was described in the book as not so much fallen as having wandered vaguely downward. I think he might be turning into something more like an arch-gremlin, since his real talent is for widespread aggravation. I think both of them are right on the borderline of being Outcast/Renegade. For those on the list who have not read "Good Omens" by Gaiman & Pratchett and don't know who we're talking about, I strongly recommend you read it. It's very funny, and right up the IN alley. Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 09:16:53 -0500 From: Hatcher Rhanyr Subject: IN> An Unusual Angel I was perusing a file Elizabeth McCoy sent me and came across an unusual entry: Abel-meholah -- mourning of sickness heheheheehe.....would this guy be the Angel of Morning Sickness? I guess there are some angels who aren't so nice. So all the pregnant women in the world have this guy (has to be a guy cause a woman wouldn't be this cruel) to blame.... Hatcher Rhanyr "The Angel of Literal Translation" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 09:35:24 -0500 (EST) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> Re: Fundamentalists On Thu, 20 Mar 1997, Turhan Herder wrote: > > I noticed the thread on Fundamentalists while looking through the list > messages. What if they are not always wrong in IN? I mean, many > Fundamentalists don't like the media because it's "satanic" but in IN > who controls media? Isn't Andrealphus working to create further > feelings of lust in the people by working with Nybbas? Good point! I am so used to dismissing fundamentalist conspiracy theories in the real world that I forgot that in In Nomine, the conspricies are probably true! And only the fundamentalists realise it! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 09:47:01 -0500 (EST) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> Fundamentalist Manipulation On Thu, 20 Mar 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > >> Very true. St. Augustine addressed this issue and concluded that > >> evils is disordered good. People do evil when they pursue a good > >> at the expense of a greater good. > > > > This was not new when St. Augustine said it. Socrates is recorded as > >having said the same. Evil, he held, was an error in measurement. > > How... Focaultian. (Did I get it spelled right? Or should I just > stick with "whatshisname"?) > The uses of "Whatsisname" almost always leaves a message far more universal. Or something. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 09:51:54 -0500 From: "Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki" Subject: IN> Yet another inspiration thought!!!! >> My implication was, in fact, that the game is very combative. However, >> maybe Malakim are more the old-style wargamer type -- Tactics II, anyone? > >Diplomacy seems well-suited for them. Actually, I'd think of Diplomacy as a Mercurian game -- all that negotiation, and they can work out those violent impulses without actually generating dissonance. Hmmmm, I smell a silly plot coming on... Six Mecurians sucker a Seraph into playing Diplomacy, thinking he'll be easy to beat if he can't lie, but remember too late that it's hard for _them_ to lie as well... Is there an Angel of Recreation? -Loki - -- Kirt A. Dankmyer --- Academic Computing Specialist http://www.wfu.edu/~dankmyka/ -- (910) 759-4202 -- PGP public key available. For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see. --Lewis Carroll ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 15:12:33 +0000 () From: "David.Evans" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Fundamentalists Gregory Littman said:- > On Thu, 20 Mar 1997, Turhan Herder wrote: > > > > > I noticed the thread on Fundamentalists while looking through the list > > messages. What if they are not always wrong in IN? I mean, many > > Fundamentalists don't like the media because it's "satanic" but in IN > > who controls media? Isn't Andrealphus working to create further > > feelings of lust in the people by working with Nybbas? > > Good point! I am so used to dismissing fundamentalist conspiracy > theories in the real world that I forgot that in In Nomine, the > conspricies are probably true! And only the fundamentalists realise it! > > But I'm sure that the Archangel of Revelations (in the S. John Ross adventure "Feast of Blades" in the In Nomine GM Pack :-) would be able to, if not arrest, then at least alleviate some of the warped and twisted lies that breed in the media ("never let the truth get in the way of a good story" is a journalistic phrase that comes to mind :-). Be seeing you... David. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 09:35:00 -0600 (CST) From: Brian Emord Subject: Re: IN> Yet another inspiration thought!!!! > Is there an Angel of Recreation? re-creation??? --> Eli... recreation... dunno Brian Emord - --* BEGIN GEEKCODE BLOCK *-- GCS/E d(+)>++ s+:+ a? C+++(++++)$ UBLAHS++$ P+++$ L++ E W++ N o K++ w O++ M-->--- V-- PS(++) PE(+)(-) Y+ PGP- t+@ 5+@ X R+(+++)* tv b++>+++ DI+++$ D G++ e(*)>++++ h+(*) r++>+++ y+ - --* END GEEKCODE BLOCK *-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 10:46:36 -0500 From: Hatcher Rhanyr Subject: IN> Amraphel, Demon of Paranoia Here's a guy that makes you wonder if you locked your doors.... ************************************************************************ AMRAPHEL Demon of Paranoia Impudiite Captain of the Broken Promise Corporeal 3 Str 5 Agi 7 Ethereal 6 Int 12 Pre 12 Celestial 4 Wil 8 Per 8 Vessel/4 Role: Government Agent [Men In Black]-Status/1 Skills: Computer Operation/2, Emote/3, Fast-Talk/2, Fighting (Akido)/3, Knowledge (Government)/3, Lying /5, Move Silently/2, Ranged Weapon/3, Small Weapon/2, Tracking/3 Songs: Charm (Ethereal)/3, Entropy (Celestial)/2, Form (Ethereal-Celestial)/2 Healing (Corporeal)/3 Attunements: Impudite of Malphas, Imboglio, Polarize, Conspiracy*(See Below) Conspiracy was given to him as a bonus for his faithful service to Malphas.This Servitor Attunement allows him to give a victim the Discord of Paranoia for check digit days. (The Victim can make a resistance to this by Roll against this on his/her Will). If the effects are resisted he can not use this Attunment on that individual for check digit days. Background: Quite a bit of mystery is associated with the demon that currently is known as Amraphel. It seems that this individual has had quite a list of names. In the past he has gone under the name of Hagar, Shual, Jaakobah, and Matred just to name a few. Some claims have been made in the Diabolical Courts that he may be the child ofLucifer himself, but as with all things about this demons past, this can be neither confirmed nor denied. Rumors fill the Diabolicals ranks that this is a fiend not to be trusted. Needless to say that when Amraphel looks back on everything he's done he has to laugh evily. "The Truth is out there...but you can't handle it" -Amraphel to an unknown FBI Agent- ************************************************************************ Hatcher Rhanyr "The Angel of Colgate [Was Bright Shinny Teeth]" ************************************************************************ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 10:13:27 -0600 (CST) From: Brian Emord Subject: Re: IN> Amraphel, Demon of Paranoia > Conspiracy was given to him as a bonus for his faithful service to > Malphas.This Servitor Attunement allows him to give a victim the Discord > of Paranoia for check digit days. (The Victim can make a resistance to > this by Roll against this on his/her Will). If the effects are resisted > he can not use this Attunment on that individual for check digit days. > This got me wondering... do Dom and Asmo know about the difference between temp discords and permanent (insomuch as they are not able to wear off on their own) ones??? do they even care??? Can they detect the difference?? Can their servitors??? just a thought on temporary discords, it seemed odd, but this isn't the first mention of discords that 'wear off' in a certain amount of time, so what happens to an angel who is afflicted and meets up with an 'Inquisitor (ie Seraph of Dom... ;)' just a thot, any impressions would be appreciated... Brian Emord Djinn of Vapula Whose word is DUCT TAPE... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 16:26:51 +0000 () From: "David.Evans" Subject: IN> The Inquisition > > Raven wrote: [snippage of muchly good stuff] > > The Holy Office of Inquisition was formed by the papacy for one purpose: > > To root out heresy, which is defined as holding religious beliefs that > > differed from church doctrine. It was never designed to root out evil or > > corruption (it would've turned on the papacy to quickly if it did that), > > but to stamp out unpopular opinions. This concept will sounds eerily > > familiar to anyone who's read 1984. > > OK. In *MY* humble opinion, the Inquisition _may_ have started as a way to "clean up" Europe of heretics and "purify" the land in the name of God, but it rapidly degenerated into a petty, violent, bloodlusty struggle for raw POWER. Perhaps it was even intended as that to begin with (very few Popes were genuinely holy enough to deserve by the "official" canons at the time that they were the best men for the job; most sired several bastard sons during thier papacies). > > That's what is was meant for. What it was /actually/ going for was much > > simpler: Money. Well, yes there was that money than too, but that's really just an extension of the power game they were playing. Machiavelli was right in saying that the best way to control a population, if not through respect, was by out-and-out *fear* of their overlords. The Inquistion got their power from the simple fact that they had absolute power, were corrupt, and could fuck you over for being a limb of Satan even if you were the purest man since Adam first touched Terra Firma. > > 'Inquiring' was a lucrative business, especially since > > all the property of anyone convicted of heresy were siezed by the Holy > > Office. As such, they tended to target well-off people and groups, > > especially heretical religious orders such as the Albigensians and the > > Knights Templar. > > I thought that the Albigensians were a poor order of Lay Preachers, who taught the masses without Papal authority and were persecuted for telling the whole story opf Jesus. You know, stuff like "How hard it is for the rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven", et cetera. The poor people *loved* that stuff, knowing they were far more likely to meet their maker than their Lords and Masters who ruled over them. Or perhaps I'm thinking of another Order entirely; the bit above is paraphrased from memory from Piers Anthony's novel "Tarot". An excellent IN read, IMHO! I don't have my copy near to check, but I'm sure someone else will if they're really interested enough to let me know. [major snippage] Be seeing you... David. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 08:29:46 -0800 (PST) From: Anders Swenson Subject: Re: IN> Evil Angel ? On Fri, 21 Mar 1997, Donald G Bixler wrote: > > Did you ever notice how, in the Bible, whenever God needed to > > punish someone or make an example, or whenever God needed a > > Killing, he sent an angel? Did you ever wonder what a creature > > like that must be like? The whole existance spent praising > > your God, but always with one wing dipped in blood? > > > > Would you ever really want to see an angel? > > Nice quote. I suppose I should see the movie... > > > Now granted, this mostly applies to the Malikim, but it also applies more > > generaly to all the rest of the choirs as well.... > > Quote from discussing the concept of In Nomine with a non-gaming > coworker: "These angels aren't angels." > > > And remember... Just becaues your Seelie doesn't mean you can't be > > nice...:) > > Don't you mean _un_seelie? No, Actualy I ment Seelie. Remember the arguement is Traditionalist vs non-Confromist. I was a Changeling LARP (helped run it actualy) and twords the end of the game my catch phrase was "Just because yuor Seelie doesn't mean you're nice." Ijust thought that I would point out that the oppisate was true as well. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 11:25:10 -0600 (CST) From: "Jared P. Buntain" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Magic > > On Thu, 20 Mar 1997, Jared P. Buntain wrote: > > Here I begin to grumble with your reasoning. This is a shallow > > description of possible motivations, even assuming that 'Gods and > > Goddesses' have motivations according to human standards. Which I will, > > cause Im human, and cant comment on more divine motivations. > > Ok, it's taken me a while to psych myself up for this, steel myself > against the flames i'm sure to call down upon myself, but here goes. This is a depressing line to read. I certainly dont mean to flame you for your opinion. My previous post was more to point out possibilities in plot an roleplaying. > Gods(tm) must be confined to that existence, and for that reason, must > conform to human ideals of right and wrong, good and evil. They have no > more divine motivations than you or I. Given the origin you posit, yes, this follows. But keep in mind that not all humans agree on what is right and wrong, good and evil. (A Fundamentalist thinks of himself as good. So does a Terrorist. So does Mother Theresa. So does the Pope. So do I. If we all believed in different Gods, they surely would not agree on the form of "good") > > all, God seems to have waged a war for power with the other dietys. And > > there are many different definitions of "good". > > That may be so, but in the world of In Nomine, God is Good incarnate. His > angels may bicker back and forth as much as they want, but God, as it > were, is incapable of evil. His plan must bring forth good, and any who > oppose it must, therefore, be evil. As i stated before, a _good_ deity > would have no problem with God maintaining control. Hmmm. Someone else already argues effectively on this point. I will simply go with this: THE God is seen as good incarnate because he won. His plan brings forth Good because he controls the symphony. So, the symphony only supports those actions seen as good by THE God. Stay with me a while. Now, lets assume that someone else had won the War. Say Aphrodite. A Goddess of Love. What bets that priest and priestess are going to be celibate there? (arguments as to the origin of celibacy in the current priesthood left aside). Is Aphodite going to care as much about the truth as God's symphony does? Let your imagination run with this. Now, think of this as an adversary to your characters. They cant treat humans and spirits loyal and empowered by Aphrodite as demons. They are not. And some of the goals conicide with Gods symphony. But some dont, and therin lies the problem. Lots of Roleplaying possibilities there. > > things according to some master plan (the "balance"). > > What is God doing? He is supporting only those things that work with > > His master plan. The Diety of Balance here just has a broader definition of > > what works. A difference in style. > > A good argument, except that God is not interested in maintaining a > balance. God is not neutral, God is good. He is only interested in > conquering evil in the name of good. A neutral deity might well > oppose Him mentally, even verbally, but would be unable to oppose him > actively since such action would make the deity no longer neutral, but > evil. You are correct God is not neutral. I did not intend to make that impression. The Diety of Balance isnt "neutral" either. Neutral is a concept that is philosophically baren. Balance is better. But a Symphony of Balance would be very different from the Symphony of God. And yes, opposition to God would be seen as "evil" by Angels. But not nescessarily by Humans. And therin lies the key. The Pagan Gods are not trying to convert angels (though the idea of causing an Angel to Fall to them is intriguing, though probably impossible) they are trying to get human worshipers. Enough so that thier power exceeds that of Gods (presuming that God isnt the One True God). Even if thier power can never _actually_ exceed Gods, thier own egos whould still make them _try_. More conflict. More Roleplaying. > > Hehehe. But a truly evil diety isnt going to want to share the power > > with some upstart creation of another diety. No, the fight would be just as > > bitter against the "newbie" as against the Big Guy who kicked your butt all > > those years ago. > > hmmmm....strange bedfellows and all that. Think of Haagenti, and Nybbas. Granted. But a Pagan God of the Damned is going to be mighty pissed that damned souls are no longer coming his way. Thats a lot of emnity to overcome. Still, dealing with some of the Princes would probably occur, but oh the doublecrosses. Oh the carefully worded promises. Oh to by a fly on the wall when two master liars start going at it with each other! > > to _overthrow_ God is not covering it all. And Lucifer probably has _no_ > > interest in joining with such a being, especially in the long run, as that > > would mean his destruction as well. > > that powerful. We're not talking about an invincible alien force here, > but the finite conjuration of human imagination. Well, _your_ not talking about an invincible alien force. And Lucifer would certainly try to get an alien destructors army up on the front lines. But that (As was said elsewhere) is a pretty silly thing for the alien destructor to do. And I meant to emphasize _long run_. Lucifer isnt intrested in destruction of the Symphony. He has a similar goal to what I propose for the Pagan Gods. He wants to turn the Symphony his way. The alien destructor wants it all gone. Gone for good. For whatever reason. Just cause the alien force isnt _really_ invincible, doesnt stop them from trying, and mucking things up for a character or five in the process. > anyway, that's my take. And its a good take. I was just hoping to point out the possibilities. It all depends on the flavor of your campaign. If your more into a straight up Heaven vs Hell in 12 rounds winner take all campaign, great! Many of the players I have around like a little Machivelli in thier soup, and get bored when they think they know everything about the campaigns direction. So I look for ways to pull the wool over thier eyes, keep em guessing as to whom they are fighting, and what they are acomplishing outside of thier spheres of influence. The key, of course, is to keep it fun. No flames intended. Read (or reread) in the kindest possible light. :) > Scott "Q" Meyer > Scott.E.Meyer@wheaton.edu > http://johnh.wheaton.edu/~smeyer Jared Buntain chandley@nwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 11:46:04 -0600 (CST) From: Thany Subject: Re: IN> Yet another inspiration thought!!!! On Thu, 20 Mar 1997, Clinton Wolf wrote: > > Diplomacy seems well-suited for them. > Diplomacy is far too subtle for Malakim... Well, that was just going on reputation (arguments have been said to spring up around this game as sure as a hockey match). - -- "I know I am. At least...I think I must be." - The Moody Blues, _In the Beginning Disclaimer: I babble. A lot. If you don't understand something I said, don't worry, I probably don't, either. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 10:18:40 -0800 From: John Subject: Re: IN> New/Old Demonprince / Great Minds Think Alike I logged on this morning to upload the beginnings of the Demon Princess I've been working on and lo and behold I see the idea posted not an hour earlier by Marco. Well, I'll post mine anyway, she's a little different... I guess people can choose... I'll also be posting Aquinas, Archangel of Healing.. is this a used idea or what? Please respond either to the group or to me privately... Thanks. My email is masque@bbic.com Yersinia Demon Princess of the Plague I walk abroad o' nights and kill sick people groaning under walls. Sometimes I go about and poison wells. Christopher Marlowe, The Jew of Malta Yersinia was a nondescript Calabite toiling in the service of Saminga, Demon Prince of Death, during the first millennium and a half of his rule. She would go out into Abaddon and harvest souls, following his strict orders on how and when souls where to be brought in. She became bored quickly with the constraints of her work and begged Saminga for a chance to work on living mundanes. He acquiesced in the 6th century and sent her to the Middle East. Her assignment was to infest a small village's food supply with an infection that would poison the entire village. She almost balked at the ease of the assignment but was desperate for a change. When she arrived, a merchant caravan was in the town. This was part of Saminga's plan. If this town were to be poisoned, the caravans would no longer be able to rest here. Without this pit stop, the caravan trail that lead Europe would fall into disuse and destroy Marc's ever so precariously balanced trade route between the two continents. Yersinia quickly surmised that this was indeed the plan and saw her chance. Instead of poisoning the town, she poisoned some rats that were living in a tub of grain. The rats were sure to make it to the end of the trip, and, introduce the infection to Europe. Her plan worked better than she could have ever hoped. What Yersinia didn't know at the time was that the rodents had fleas. Those fleas drank the poisoned blood and stored it until they would visit their next host, and upon feeding, infect their host. No sooner did she return to Abbadon, but she was yanked into Saminga bone citadel. In the great hall, her Lord sat. He was livid that she would betray him and not fulfill her duties. He had just started torturing her when Kronos and Lucifer appeared before them. They informed Saminga what his Servitor had in fact done and that he was going to be very busy for the next few years. Kronos had finished calculating the end result of her actions and realized that over 100 million people would be killed by this disease that she visited upon the world, simply by poisoning a single rat. Lucifer elevated her on the spot to Demon Princess of the Plague. A new domain was constructed especially for her. It is Pestis, a medieval village located next to Abbadon, a river of bile and vomit separating the two Principalities. The souls of Pestis are eternally plague ridden. They wander about the town (those that can walk) in various stages of the disease. If a soul has any Essence at all, it is forced to either vomit it up into the River, or have it drawn from them in a tortuous blood-letting session that is attended by Yersinia's Servitors. Yersinia continued to gain in power throughout the Middle Ages, eventually threatening Saminga's own reign when yet another plague was brought upon Europe by Saminga in the 14th century, killing almost one half of the population (roughly 75 million people). But, in the eyes of Lucifer, that was an old trick and he would demand even more widespread death and disease if her claim to the Princess of Death was to be secure. Her success continued to be moderate all the way up until the 19th century. For some unknown reason, (Yersinia suspects the intervention of Aquinas (see below)) when mundanes took to the habit of cleaning themselves almost daily, and fully cooking their meals. For almost an entire century, Yersinia saw her power begin to dwindle, as mundanes began investigating the methods that made them sick. When Louis Pasteur came along, she suspected Vapula of giving secrets to the mundanes. Yersinia was forced to adapt her methods to the growing sophistication of the mundanes. Diseases that in the past she took for granted came to her rescue. Syphillis, Gonorrhea, and Polio made new strides, and she started to feel her strength return. And then, in the late 1970's, Yersinia outdid herself. Using her old tricks (this time on a monkey) she infected the human race one again, but this time with a new virus, one that would literally attack a mundane body's ability to defend itself. AIDS, along with other diseases have surfaced that brought Yersinia back from the brink of destruction. Yersinia is at least neutral with all other demons, with the exception of a new alliance with Vapula and Nybbas. They are currently working together on various forms of computer viruses that help make human's lives Hell. DISSONANCE Yersinia's Servitors gain dissonance whenever they either help someone (mundanes or celestials) get well, or do not act on a chance to poison, infect, or otherwise harm them through sickness and / or disease. BAND ATTUNEMENTS Balseraphs A Balseraph serving Yersinia can roll their resonance to convince someone that they are not feeling well. The victim can resist with a Will roll and, if failed, must stop whatever they are doing, and immediately rest for at least (check digit) hours. If they do not comply within the hour, their body will actually begin producing the results of the sickness that the Balseraph described, and they will be bedridden for (check digit) days. If their Will roll is successful, the Balseraph is unable to affect (and infect) that person for (check digit) hours, and will be unable to use the same symptoms when they can. Djinn Any Djinn serving under Yersinia will able to sense any illness that their target once had and be able to recreate that illness on a successful resonance roll. This roll is additional to the attunement roll. If their target is an object or a place, they will know instantly if any illness ever came into contact with it. However they will not be able to recreate that illness unless they attune themselves to the actual person who initiated the contact with that object or place. Calabim Yersinia dearly loves her Calabites and has given them the ability to actually affect the overall health of all creatures with a given area. Upon a successful resonance role, all creatures with (check digit) meters must role their Strength to resist the illness. If successful, they have no reaction. If failed, however, they lose (check digit) hits of Body immediately and are incapacitated for the following round. This affects ALL individuals (except, of course, the Calabite) in said area, friend and foe alike. Habbalah The Habbalites in Yersinia's employ specialize in all the mental traits of illness. They are unconcerned with the actual medical cause and effect. Instead, they delight in the mental state of the inflicted individual. On a successful resonance roll, they are able to make their target believe that they are inflicted with whatever disease that being has either had, or fears the most. This could be any kind of disease, either physical or mental. The target may resist on a Will roll, or be infected with said disease for (failed check digit) hours. Lilim All Lilim in Yersinia's service can only work with those already inflicted. Upon accepting a Geas from the Lilim, the target instantly feels better and, for all intents and purposes, is well. However, this is, in fact, not true. The Lilim has merely put the disease on hold. If the Geas is fulfilled, the target has a chance at getting well. They must role equal to or below their strength once for each level of Geas that was imposed. A Geas/3 will mean that the target must roll equal to or below their strength on three consecutive rolls in order to get well. If they fail, or the Geas is not fulfilled, the victim will be stricken with the disease once again. Any attempt to cure must be successful and with a check digit no less than the original Geas level. Shedim Yersinia's Shedites may possess any creature that is suffering from an illness at will. They do not have the power to heal the vessel and will experience the drawbacks. However, they gain Essence if they leave the vessel in a more pronounced state of illness than when they entered it. They may also add their Corporal forces to any victim that they actually touch. Impudites Any Impudite of Yersinia is immune to all forms of illness. They also gain 1 Essence when in the company of sick people. Of course, any and all sick people in the company of an Impudite (Impudite's Will in meters) lose 1 Essence a day. The Impudite does not absorb any extra Essence. It is instead absorbed into the Symphony. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Mar 97 14:40:32 EST From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM> Subject: IN> Souls and 0 Forces >Raven: >That statement made me realize something about this whole 'restoring >remnants' deal. With all their celestial forces gone, their /soul/ is >gone! Quite literally, there's no angel left. Adding celestial Forces to >a remnant wouldn't be restoring a brutally wounded angel, even >considering how different he'd be; it's creating a /new/ angel with a >pre-mde vessel and possible role. A zombi made through Saminga's Attunement is a soulless creature. All other sentient life forms have a soul, even if their Forces of a particular type have gone to zero. There is a scrap of Celestial Force there, but it doesn't register on the map. Don't forget that people can 'buy up' characteristics... so, even if all Celestial Forces are practically gone, one can still have a noticeable rating in Will and Perception. Basically, a Remnant still has a celestial soul though it has no noticeable power to effect Things Celestial. Peace, Moriah ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 12:04:33 -0800 From: Clinton Wolf Subject: IN> In Nomine: Rules Questions Greetings, Managed to pick up the book the other day and my friend is going to start a campaign of it soon, however as I read through things I began to have a lot of puzzling and important questions regarding how things would work, mostly regarding my character concept which is a Shedim... I've looked through the digests, FAQ and rec.games.frp.misc and none of these seem to have come up yet, much less been answered, so I'm siccing them on you (and whoever else you might inflict them on) ;) 1) Shedim "have full knowledge of their hosts' thoughts, feelings, and memories" (p. 151)... does this include Skills? What about songs and attunements? 2) Since it never mentions otherwise in either the Shedim or Kyriotate descriptions, I assume that they may possess celestial vessels as well as "mortal" ones, with the only limitations (barring superior attunements) being a living host (for Kyriotates) or a human-shaped vessel (for Shedites)... in the latter case, does the celestial personality remain in the dreamlike state a mortal would, thinking the actions they take to be their own? Obviously the Will struggle to force the average angel to do something despicable would be more difficult than dominating Joe Human, but in the case of Shedim serving Malphas (who automatically succeed in their rolls to possess and control a victim) this could lead to serious angelic problems (then again, maybe Dominic's whole habit of antagonizing and factionalizing the powers of Heaven could be due to... uhm, err, I didn't say nothing! I know nothing!) Following this heretical thread, would a possessed angel gain dissonance from evil acts the Shedim caused him to perpetrate? Would those possessed by a Shedite of Malphas (that drives out the host mind entirely) be subject to dissonance caused also? 3) Another question linked to the above... Kyriotates are specifically limited to possessing hosts whose combined Celestial Forces are equal to or less than the Kyrio's rating in same. Similarly, the Song of Possession limits targets to those of equal or less CF than the singer. Shedim apparently don't suffer from this limi- tation, or was the mention of it inadvertantly left out? 4) What happens if a Kyriotate or Shedite's current host is hit with a song of Possession? Or another Kyriotate or Shedite attempts to assume control of the same host? In the case of the non-Malphas Shedites, do both the Shedite and the still present host consciousness go to romp in the Marches, or does something more convoluted occur? 5) VERY important: It implies in the book that a possessed host should be considered a celestial vessel in game terms, so theoretically a Kyriotate's wolf form throating a mortal would set off noise. How does this work with Shedim, where the host consciousness is still present and believes itself to be in control (assuming the host is mortal)... if a Shedite riding a postal worker has him gun down his fellow employees with an assault rifle, the noise created would be astronomical if it used the standard rules for celestial inter- ference... and yet this is implied to be a ho-hum all in a day's work activity for the demons, not one that would bring every angel in a tri-state radius down on his head. How about an even less clear cut issue? Busload of nuns... Shedite possesses bus driver, has him stop for a few minutes to "check the engine" and proceeds to cut the brake lines. Climbs back in, revs the engine, points the bus at a cliff edge and abandons its host as the bus is about to go over. Celestially noisy or not? Very important distinction because a Shedite who possesses a pilot and causes the crash of a jetliner (assuming 200 or so people on board) would generate noise equal to a 6 or less perception roll still almost 9600 miles from the event if it counts as the demon performing the act! On the one hand the mortal's lives are ended (presumably) prematurely... on the other, Nicole the Mercurian causes a life to end prematurely by commanding her servant to kill, and no ripple is caused. Does the penalty for killing or injuring a human only come into play when the act is /directly/ dealt by celestial hand? Also, what about the echoes caused... would they lead to the host body, the Shedite, or both? If the Shedite hopscotches through humans after a murder spree are there going to be angels mistakenly skewering these "perpetrators" their senses lead them to? Kobal would split his sides :) 6) I'll leave y'all with a token Balseraph question to round things off a bit. Balseraph who have the Ethereal discord of Paranoia are more likely to generate dissonance/discord... I could see this for Seraphim, but Balseraph are explicitly described in their entry as being /the/ most paranoid of the demon bands... isn't dissonance and discord supposed to happen from acting /against/ your nature? How does this make sense? Greetings, Managed to pick up the book the other day and my friend is going to start a campaign of it soon, however as I read through things I began to have a lot of puzzling and important questions regarding how things would work, mostly regarding my character concept which is a Shedim... I've looked through the digests, FAQ and rec.games.frp.misc and none of these seem to have come up yet, much less been answered, so I'm siccing them on you (and whoever else you might inflict them on) ;) 1) Shedim "have full knowledge of their hosts' thoughts, feelings, and memories" (p. 151)... does this include Skills? What about songs and attunements? 2) Since it never mentions otherwise in either the Shedim or Kyriotate descriptions, I assume that they may possess celestial vessels as well as "mortal" ones, with the only limitations (barring superior attunements) being a living host (for Kyriotates) or a human-shaped vessel (for Shedites)... in the latter case, does the celestial personality remain in the dreamlike state a mortal would, thinking the actions they take to be their own? Obviously the Will struggle to force the average angel to do something despicable would be more difficult than dominating Joe Human, but in the case of Shedim serving Malphas (who automatically succeed in their rolls to possess and control a victim) this could lead to serious angelic problems (then again, maybe Dominic's whole habit of antagonizing and factionalizing the powers of Heaven could be due to... uhm, err, I didn't say nothing! I know nothing!) Following this heretical thread, would a possessed angel gain dissonance from evil acts the Shedim caused him to perpetrate? Would those possessed by a Shedite of Malphas (that drives out the host mind entirely) be subject to dissonance caused also? 3) Another question linked to the above... Kyriotates are specifically limited to possessing hosts whose combined Celestial Forces are equal to or less than the Kyrio's rating in same. Similarly, the Song of Possession limits targets to those of equal or less CF than the singer. Shedim apparently don't suffer from this limi- tation, or was the mention of it inadvertantly left out? 4) What happens if a Kyriotate or Shedite's current host is hit with a song of Possession? Or another Kyriotate or Shedite attempts to assume control of the same host? In the case of the non-Malphas Shedites, do both the Shedite and the still present host consciousness go to romp in the Marches, or does something more convoluted occur? 5) VERY important: It implies in the book that a possessed host should be considered a celestial vessel in game terms, so theoretically a Kyriotate's wolf form throating a mortal would set off noise. How does this work with Shedim, where the host consciousness is still present and believes itself to be in control (assuming the host is mortal)... if a Shedite riding a postal worker has him gun down his fellow employees with an assault rifle, the noise created would be astronomical if it used the standard rules for celestial inter- ference... and yet this is implied to be a ho-hum all in a day's work activity for the demons, not one that would bring every angel in a tri-state radius down on his head. How about an even less clear cut issue? Busload of nuns... Shedite possesses bus driver, has him stop for a few minutes to "check the engine" and proceeds to cut the brake lines. Climbs back in, revs the engine, points the bus at a cliff edge and abandons its host as the bus is about to go over. Celestially noisy or not? Very important distinction because a Shedite who possesses a pilot and causes the crash of a jetliner (assuming 200 or so people on board) would generate noise equal to a 6 or less perception roll still almost 9600 miles from the event if it counts as the demon performing the act! On the one hand the mortal's lives are ended (presumably) prematurely... on the other, Nicole the Mercurian causes a life to end prematurely by commanding her servant to kill, and no ripple is caused. Does the penalty for killing or injuring a human only come into play when the act is /directly/ dealt by celestial hand? Also, what about the echoes caused... would they lead to the host body, the Shedite, or both? If the Shedite hopscotches through humans after a murder spree are there going to be angels mistakenly skewering these "perpetrators" their senses lead them to? Kobal would split his sides laughing if the Malakim slaughter a girl scout troop that happened to be nearby... especially given the precious looks that would be present on their faces after realizing what they'd done... :) 6) I'll leave y'all with a token Balseraph question to round things off a bit. Balseraph who have the Ethereal discord of Paranoia are more likely to generate dissonance/discord... I could see this for Seraphim, but Balseraph are explicitly described in their entry as being /the/ most paranoid of the demon bands... isn't dissonance and discord supposed to happen from acting /against/ your nature? How does this make sense? - -- Clint, servant of Beleth who /will/ make these questions haunt your sleep... P.S. An even more cunning thought on the vagaries of symphonic disturbance. Suppose any celestial were to crash a jetliner as above, but they do it by just poking a pint sized hole in the fuel tanks before it takes off, so that it goes empty and crashes five hours later in midflight. Noise? Leading back to him/her/it, or just the crash itself? How about a demon who plants explosives and radio detonates them from a mile away, collapsing some hospital in a fiery blast? If he /does/ create noise from this, is it noise based on the entire structure and all living things within, or just the parts directly affected by the actual explosion, with the subsequent structural collapse and all its mayhem being unrelated for symphony purposes? If it /is/ all related, does that mean a worker clearing away the rubble days later that gets injured by settling debris again causes noise pointing to the demon, wherever the demon might now be? Anyways, looking for some answers, or at least some good discussion. :) ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #85 ****************************** The material here is (C) 1996 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.