From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Apr 7 15:05:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (root@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by deliverator.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA21906; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 11:40:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA26208 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 10:53:07 -0500 Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 10:53:07 -0500 Message-Id: <199704071553.KAA26208@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #106 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, April 7 1997 Volume 01 : Number 106 In this digest: Re: IN> Resonance questions IN> In Nomine MUSH.. IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #105 IN> A silly vignette IN>Zombi Thoughts and Ideas IN> Demon of Patriotism Re: IN> Principalities IN> Lycurgus Re: IN> Kryiotate Questions. Re: Does this joke work??? Re: IN> Principalities Re: IN> Demon of Patriotism Re: IN> Bright Lilim Attunements Re: IN> Celestial Population Re: IN> Summaries & compilations Re: IN> Demon of Patriotism IN> omitted details about summaries Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #104 IN> Replacing vessels IN> Marc and "Trade" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 11:42:57 -0400 (EDT) From: "Paul F. Strack" Subject: Re: IN> Resonance questions On Sat, 5 Apr 1997, Tom Beliech wrote: > 1) In pure RP terms, how exactly does a Balseraph view himself when he > uses his resonance? I don't have the book on hand at this moment, so I > can't give exact quotes, but it seemed to indicate that a Balseraph > cannot truly "lie" except to himself, by manipulating his own personal > vision of reality, and so "lies" to others by enveloping them in a > projection of his "view" of things. Does this sound correct? The part > about them not being able to truly lie confused me somewhat. I think you are correct. Balseraphs play little mind games with themselves, and half believe in the lies that they are telling. That is why contradicting the lie causes dissonance; it makes it that much more difficult for the Balseraph to believe her own lie. I also am of the opinion that it makes it that much more difficult to tell when a Balseraph is lying (even when the Balseraph isn't using his Resonance) because the Balseraph almost believes the lie himself. > 2) On the Djinn - what do they DO with themselves? The "Backrubs" > example didn't help me much, since it just said that Djinn don't care > about backrubs. But the text also hinted that Djinn DO care, but they > just don't like to admit it, or indulge in it. My question - Why would a > Djinn choose to attune himself to something in the first place, or more > exactly, what motivates a Djinn to use his resonance, since he can't > directly attack his "subject" unless he serves the proper Prince? Think: untraceable holy homing beacon. How often to you think demons might need to keep track of a particular person or item, or follow an angel back to its lair. Djinn are perfect for that sort of job and their Resonance causes no Celestial noise. It's nearly impossible to know who has been "tagged" and who hasn't, so Djinn are nearly the perfect tracking system. This doesn't work as well for Cherubim, because they are so attached to their subject. Djinn have the attitude that "Hey, we don't care, so we can track whoever we like." Unfortunately, sometimes a whisper of their original Choir seeps through and they *do* care, causing dissonance. Paul Strack | Madness takes its toll. pfstrack@math.unc.edu | Please have exact change. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Web Page - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/wod.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 11:34:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Anais Shadowhawk Subject: IN> In Nomine MUSH.. This has been awhile in coming, and I know we've been very quiet of late. For that, I apologize. The MUSH turned out to be one heck of a project. Regardless, here's the latest: In Nomine MUSH is being opened for general consumption, on a 'work in progress' basis. What does that mean? That means that, yes, we're allowing you to create a character and to log on, to do light roleplay. If you want to build something, and we haven't thought of it yet, we'll let you build it. If you want to code something, and we haven't got it yet (highly likely), we'll probably let you code it, provided it doesn't kill everyone or something like that. We don't have a birthplace set up, so, for now, all stats will be set by hand. This means, it's going to be slower than instantaneous for character creation, but, it will get done. The MUSH is at alpha.magibox.net 6250. Please be patient with us, and recognize that it isn't perfect, just yet. We have only one guest character, so please be polite, when it comes to looking around. We're working on this. Once you've logged in, please be sure to read news chargen2 and chargen 3. CHARACTERS: The majority of characters are likely to fall in the angel/demon realm, though we certainly encourage the creation of Soldiers of God/Soldiers of Hell, and your every day run of the mill humans, as well. When you write to ask for a character, please include the following information: Humans - ------ 1. Your chosen character name. We'll pick a password for you. 2. A character background. This means, who is this human? What does he/she do? It's assumed that a mundane will have no knowledge of the Celestial or Infernal. If you want to know something about them, you must include that in your email right off the bat. 2a. If you want to play a Soldier for either side, please explain why you've chosen/have been chosen for the side you're on. How were you approached? How fanatical and/or dedicated are you? Who do you work for? (Yes, if several people want to get together to bring in teams of angels/demons and Soldiers, that's fine.) 3. Your stats, of course. Angels/Demons - ------------- 1. Again, your character name. 2. Your choir/band and the Archangel/Prince you serve. 3. A character background. Have you been to Earth before? Do you like it? Why were -you- chosen to go to Earth, at all. Are you trying to make up for a screw-up previously, and trying to re-impress your 'boss?' Are you a favored servitor, and can do no wrong? This is your chance to be as creative in making up character stories as you like. 4. Your stats, of course, including any artifacts or objects, or other additions. Archangels/Princes - ------------------ Yes, we are also still looking for people to play the Archangels and Princes. These applications will, of necessity, take a little longer to review, and we'll expect more information from you. Of course, we want to know the basics: Which Archangel/Prince you want to be, etc. We also want to see your interpretation of the Archangel/Prince, outside what the sourcebook says. Anyone can retype a paragraph about Michael, copied from the book. What we want to see is, how do -you- intend to play 'the Big Guys.' Currently, the following positions are open: Blandine, David, Janus, Jean, Jordi, Laurence, and Marc. Infernally, Andrealphus, Baal, Beleth, Belial, Kronos, Malphas, Nybbas, Saminga, Valefor and Vapula are still available. All inquiries/applications should be sent to khalid@ns.net. Thanks in advance for your patience and understanding. Khalid, Archangel of Faith, Wizard of Way Too Many Things. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 16:37:11 -0300 From: "Rien n'est vrai. Tout est permis." Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #105 >Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 11:19:02 -0600 (CST) >From: rogue@ez-net.com (RogueLdr) >Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #104 > > > >>if there is no problem (I am trying to summarize, not copy parts of the >>text), would anyone else like a copy when I get done? >> >>matt s. Please do send one to cabale@microtec.net. Julien Villeneuve. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 20:46:49 +0000 From: "Bodhi" Subject: IN> A silly vignette This is not a SERIOUS piece for me. Instead, it is something to do with the players when you want something purposefully silly. Here's one to play for Dark Laughs... This isn't really an adventure seed... more like a vignette, with possible future references... Style: Think X-Files meets Ghostbusters... The PC's are told by Jean that a new breakthrough in technology has occurred; one that threatens the status of the War by having humans become too interested in the workings of the Universe before they are morally responsible enough to handle the knowledge. A secret government agency, hidden deep within the machinations of the "regular" intelligence community, is devoted to unearthing paranormal activities, alien encounters, and such like. The head of this department is a paranoid delusional, Special Agent Thornton Cash. Thornton has managed to garner the attention of certain "higher-ups" with some of his more marginal successes investigating strange phenomenon and unexplainable happenings. He is obsessed with U.F.O.'s, ghosts, vampires, witchcraeft, and all manner of things strange and surreal. He is also convinced that there is an even more secret government agency, hidden higher up than his own OMEGA BRANCH, that is actually in possession of technological secrets unearthed from the Roswell, New Mexico crash site, and pieced together in the mysterious Area 51. He may be right. Who knows... However, his own superiors have come to recognize that he is becoming dangerously unstable in his beliefs, his methods, and his public-relations. He is becoming an embarassment to the OMEGA BRANCH, and in response they are about to saddle him with a new "partner", a female scientist who is under strict orders to gather evidence de-bunking Cash's claims that "The Truth is Out There". Cash has a number of people working on his "team", all of which are marginal personalities at best! He has an ecclectic group of theology students, science grads, mystics, psychics, and nut-balls. All of them are wierdo's. They are all, also, fiercely dedicated to their theories about conspiracies, magic, and the super-natural. One of his more enterprising compatriots has recently had a "breakthrough", in which she claimed to have isolated a certain "tracable element" linked to supernatural activities. With such a device, she claims that the OMEGA BRANCH can track down supernatural creatures. The eventual hope is to isolate such creatures, and then figure out how they-do the voo-doo that they-do... Unfortunately for the PC's, the infernal gadget works! The Frequency Analyzing Re-integrating Transmogrifier (which unfortunately seems to have fallen prey to the obvious Acronym...) is a ridiculous looking contraption, with bits and pieces that variably inflate, deflate, beep, burp, ping, blink, and whistle. It also, with an alarming degree of accuracy for a mortal-made device, detects essence expenditure. The device is able to detect the "signature" of consciously-spent Essence with the same degree of accuracy as a mortal with 5 forces and a 3 perception. While this doesn't seem like much, it has a few of the Celestials and Diabolicals worried. If humans learn how to detect essence being spent, then it will soon follow that they will analyze how such expenditures affect the world, how to create such changes consciously, and it will crack open the whole working-model of the Universe. Thus, the ability to spend Essence may (within a few decades) become possible through technological devices rather than through earned cosmic experiences. This bodes not well for the War. Thus, various Celestial and Diabolical forces are marshalling, either independantly or conjointly, to ruin Cash's reputation once and for all. If they can thoroughly humiliate Cash and destroy his credibility, the DEVICE will be thrown away and lost in the junkpile of technological widgets that failed. Thus, the War can continue unimpeded by pesky paranoiac mortals. This situation is brought to the PC's attention, but the method of de-bunking the OMEGA BRANCH should be left up to the player's over-active imaginations. Example: Infiltrate the BRANCH by having a PC pose as the new partner. Thus, even when amazing, supernatural things are going on, the PC can pose logical-sounding explanations, and remain stoically unconvinced as to the existence of supernatural beings. She will NEVER believe, much to the annoyance of Cash! (and the amusement of the PC's) Example: Kyriotates (and/or Shedims) can possess the various members of the team at inopportune moments, making for humourous and potentially destructive events in game-play. Example: Have the PC's set a "haunted house" (using Songs, attunements, etc.),call the BRANCH in to investigate, and have Cash convinced that he has the PROOF he has been looking for. Once the PC's manage to whip Cash into such a fervor that he calls a press conference, they can publically humiliate him with a trumped-up "real" explanation. Hopefully, the BRANCH will be disbanded, and the DEVICE can be lost through a little more PC intervention. The point is, leave the actual mechanism of de-bunking the BRANCH to the PC's. Let them have complete control of the scenario. This is as much an exercise in role-playing as it is in creative humour. Finale': While there is little doubt that imaginative PC's can come up with a plan to thoroughly frustrate, humiliate, and aggrevate Cash to the point where the BRANCH is disbanded, Cash will continue his activities privately. He will be more convinced than ever that the mysterious "Conspiracy" was behind the efforts to destroy his reputation, and hide the Truth. Thus, Cash can be a recurring character NPC, who sniffs around, gets underfoot, and generally makes a relatively harmless yet oddly endearing footnote to any future game situations. Walk in Beauty, Rob Wolff / Bodhi rob@v-wave.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 02:51:02 -0400 (EDT) From: "Michael C. Nutt" Subject: IN>Zombi Thoughts and Ideas Something occurred to me the other day while reading through "A Dark Dream" again... imagine the Hell Marcus could have raised if, once he found the Sanguine Painting and secured it, he'd simply gone over to where Patricia was holding Tariel's broken vessel, bopped her on the head, and taken *that* with him as well. OK, he probably doesn't have enough Essence to Zombify a 10-Force vessel... but I *guarantee* you Saminga does. And just look at the nasty opponent the Zombi Tariel would make... OK, no Celestial Forces, true, but *8* Corporeal Forces combined with 2 Ethereal Forces, plus the memories that Tariel had and 8 levels of Numinous Corpus. Probably not *as* neat a toy for Saminga as the Sanguine Painting...but neat enough that I imagine he'll pull a few of Marcus' fingernails out for letting that one get away. He could have taken Charlie's old vessel, too, but I imagine Charlie would have eaten his soul for that . (BTW, just what *did* happen to Charlie? Went celestial? In which case, why did the old vessel stay around? Did he "die"? In which case, how? No rules for "bleeding to death later...") I'm still puzzling out the implications here, but the most *obvious* one to me is that when fighting Servitors of Saminga, you better make sure you carry the bodies of your dead with you. Otherwise, you're liable to wind up finding them on the Other Side soon. Also, if they knew any secrets, you can consider them "blown". Maybe it'd be a good idea to rig up something that would destroy the vessel in case of your "death", although Kobal would just *love* to find a way to set it off prematurely, I betcha. The rules for "Zombi" on p. 193 says that any "fresh" corpse can be turned into a Zombi... but how "fresh" is "fresh"? Still with a core temperature above ambient (a few hours or so)? Before rotting sets in (up to days in the right environment)? Something completely arbitrary ? Michael When Boy George sang, "Do you really want to hurt me?", was I the only one out here screaming, "Yes!! YES!!"? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 17:00:03 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: IN> Demon of Patriotism Dear List recent discussions prompted me to give another polish to this Demon, who still might not quite be finished. I was going to call him the Demon of Nationalsim, but I stuck with Patriotism. *** Grudnak - Habbalah of Malphas, Demon of Patriotism "Our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations, may she always be in then right; but our country, right or wrong." Grudnak is a demon who has worked a long time to see his Word develop. Like many Servitors of Malphas he traps humans by allowing themselves to feel selfless by acting in a cause larger than themselves, while in truth they are only using the cause to justify not having to think about their duty to their fellows. It took Grudnak a long time to find the right balance to make his Word appeal to the mass of humans, although there was a lot of misery in the simple breaking down and building up of political units to find one the right size and composition. In the second half of the second millennium of the Christian Era Grudnak turned with what he had learnt to the New World making an alliance with another of Malphas' Servitors, the Demon of Religious Intolerance, to push his more successfully nurtured nations into a no holds barred contest of expansion. The new nations formed in both the north and south of the new hemisphere have proved fertile ground for Grudnak, who has continued his experimentation with other factors that effect his Word. Recently Grudnak has been in stiff competition with the Demon of Ethnic Hatred, who has improved to be one of Malphas' better operators. Some of his fellow damned are curious as to why Grudnak hasn't risen higher in Hell's Ranks and feel he missed too many good opportunities in the 1800's. The truth is that Grudnak just enjoys his work too much and hasn't got the political wit to make anything more of himself. "Nothing is so delicious as seeing one bunch of stupid humans self-righteously loot and pillage and torture their way through another bunch of pathetic humans just because the second bunch of useless humans was born on the other side of some river." Servitor Attuments Not Made Here - With a Will Roll a Servitor of Patriotism can a cause targeted mortal to have a flash of xenophobia, causing them to reject anything they can identify as foreign. Note the "foreign" thing, be it item, person or idea, need not actually be foreign, just identified as so by the target. The xenophobia last for Check Digit minutes. The target can resist taking action on the xenophobia with a Will Roll, but must continue to make Will Rolls til the xenophobia wears off. Just Like the Duke - By associating a course of action with a figure of prestige in the target mortal's country, and spending a point of Essence, a Servitor of Patriotism can make the course of action so attractive that the target must make a Will Roll to resist following the suggested course of action. The target will aggressively pursue the course of action for an amount of Minutes equal to their failed Will Roll if in a combat or stress situation, Days if not in combat. "Hey buddy you gonna take that from those wetbacks. Get back in there and show 'em what an American is really made of, that's what John Wayne would do." Rite - Grudank has only one rite. For one Essence - get a mortal to cause harm or loss to another mortal and justify it as necessary through Patriotism. Grudnak loves the theory of Manifest Destiny and the Monroe Doctrine Summoning Grudnak may be summonned by any of his Servitors or any Servitor of Malphas on a base chance of 5, he is really interested in the Corporeal Plane. +1 Wearing a piece of a recognised national costume +2 Flag of the Nation you are in. +3 Sing in full the National Anthem of the Nation you are in. +4 At a Major National Monument commemorating an incident of National Pride. *** Pop Quiz - Who said the quote I opened this post with. Thanking you for your indulgence. Yours Peter. At 04:37 PM 6/4/97 -0300, you wrote: >>Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 11:19:02 -0600 (CST) >>From: rogue@ez-net.com (RogueLdr) >>Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #104 >> >> >> >>>if there is no problem (I am trying to summarize, not copy parts of the >>>text), would anyone else like a copy when I get done? >>> >>>matt s. > >Please do send one to cabale@microtec.net. > >Julien Villeneuve. > > > > Email to peterf@geko.net.au "Whoso loveth God truely must not expect to be loved by Him in return." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 16:53:08 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: Re: IN> Principalities Dear Earl, Walt and all other who wrote on this subject of "National Spirits" nice work, well thought out, creative and capable of prompting some interesting and thoughtful roleplaying. But I don't like them and wouldn't use them even if they were cannon. With your indulgence I will explain. The start of the idea seemed to be an extrapolation of the role of the Celestial Seneschals, which I found to be flawed. The Seneschals are not interested in the Corporeal Plane, they have no interest in buildings, waterfalls, parks, gardens, churches or sacred groves. They are interested in those metaphysical extensions of the Celestial Plane called Tethers. They are the Gatekeepers of Heaven and Hell, not it's Captains on Earth. After their role as Gateways the Tethers also play a role as refuge to the community of Celestials in the geographical region where the Tether intersects with the Corporeal Plane. Because of this the Seneschal may become involved with the activities of his Celestial Community, but his Primary role is still Gatekeeper. Also I think it is a mistake to see Seneschals as taking the job as part of a progress towards something bigger. In the case of Angels at least I find it hard to be comfortable with such rampant ambition, indeed I feel that those more likely to rise in the Divine ranks are those who seek to further God's Plan through devotion to a Word rather than looking to push something they identify as their own self interest. On the contrary I can see Seneschal being something like the sort of lateral promotion you give a good worker who is a bit unfocused, to get him back in line and keep him using his potential for the whole team. It also seemed odd to me that (to take the easier side of the argument) a Divine Celestial Agent would be more interested in one human over another because of where they were born or where they live. Angels are not interested in what you are or where you might be. They are interested in humanity (or creation if you are Jordi) as a whole and then become drawn to some humans because of what they think and what they feel. It is the fact that a human seeks justice, creates, promotes change, teaches skills, loves, fights, follows a faith or seeks truth that attracts a particular angel's interest. Angels do not distinguish between humans on the basis of race, colour, creed, nationality, gender or sexual preference. There is an existing mechanism for a Divine Celestial Agent who is interested in humans because of the mundane differences between them, including nationality, Saints. Saints are the mediators between human action and experience and the Divine, and most countries have a Patron Saint. They are not in the Angelic Hierarchy, so there is no question of favouritism of one Archangel's Servitors over another's. If you include Sinners then you can have a Divine and Diabolic Patron of a country. Existing mechanisms mean that a Saint can have a distinctly limited number of incarnations. This can be lived with, either having each National Patron pick a subordinate Saint/Sinner to hand his Patronage on to or have them work mostly from the Celestial Plane. Alternatively you could allow a National Patron to automatically return to their Lower Celestial Plane after any incarnation as a citizen of their Nation. The Patron Saint of England is St George and I would say his virtues are those of King Arthur. That "the Mighty use their Strength for the Common Good" and that "the Law and Justice rule Equally over All, including the King". Very unfairly I would chose as an incarnation of England's Patron Sinner the Lord Protector Oliver Cromwell and (completely misrepresent) his ideals as "The Strong should use their Power to make Society what they think is Good" and "Law and Justice are tools to be used to reshape Society to what is Right". For early incarnations of America's Patron Saint I would consider one of the founding fathers, possibly George Washington or Ben Franklin, and consider Abe Lincon and JFK as possibly being later incarnations. It is more fitting that an American should frame your Patron Saint's ideals, but I would lean towards liberty and equality. For an early incarnation of the Diabolic patron I might suggest J Pierpont Morgan, whom I know nothing of, except for his reputation as the complete amoral capitalist shark, and possibly Bill Gates as the current incarnation. The US Patron Sinner corupting the idea of liberty and equality into competition and anti-regulation. BTW, I don't really think Bill is the Anti-Christ, just a sociopath. Patron Saints and Sinners can have attunements and rites that they can give their favoured workers, even those who may not know that they are furthering the work of a Celestial entity. Also the power level of the Saint/Sinner is more comfortable to me than that which the Principalities seemed to be reaching. Rather than pushing the National Patrons in directly below the Archangels it makes them lesser Celestial Agents. Ones who do not move major aspects of the Symphony, but deal with some of the mundane concerns of the Mortals who inhabit it. Just My Humble Opinion, thanking you for your indulgence. Yours Peter. Email to peterf@geko.net.au "Whoso loveth God truely must not expect to be loved by Him in return." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 20:31:37 +1100 From: jumpshot@onaustralia.com.au (Davies) Subject: IN> Lycurgus >Oops da Ogre, who liked the writeup, but doesn't think the word is >really of Archangel status... Well, I did think of that before hand and was not totally sure whether Lycurgus should be either an Archangel or just a powerful Word Bound Angel. After rereading some things I decided on the former, making him one of the lesser Archangels, as opposed to the real "movers and shakers". He would have few servitors following him, but I believe that the importance of Sport in society and the degree of "worship" that many of us mundanes attribute to it (myself included :-J) does warrant an Archangel to moniter its effect in the Symphony. Sabbatt - ------------------------------------------------- The ultimate, angels' law, Indulging every instinct of the soul There where law, life, joy, impulse are one thing! -- Robert Browning ------------------------------------------------- jumpshot@onaustralia.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 08:47:20 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Kryiotate Questions. > > Yeah I think it is to powerful too, especiall when you cinsider that "Line > of Sight" is within sight of any eyes they have. I suspect that I will make > it closer unless there is some link, interaction or something between the > possessor and target. Even if the game publishers dont agree with me :) . We officially grant you permission to do whatever the hell you want with your own campaign. ;) -john 'Demon Prince of Rules Lawyers' karakash- - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 22:22:26 +1000 From: "Ken Marychurch" Subject: Re: Does this joke work??? Re: IN> Principalities Yep - cuts it for me! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 09:00:35 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Demon of Patriotism A better Word might be Nationalism. IMO, rabid nationalism is bad thing, but we are sorely lacking in patriotism. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 08:49:45 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lilim Attunements On Apr 5, 7:19pm, Grim88 wrote: > Subject: IN> Bright Lilim Attunements > Is there an official list anywhere of the the Major Archangels' Attunements > granted to Bright Lilim? Nope. Elizabeth has her own rules, though, that look pretty good. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 08:53:56 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Celestial Population On Apr 6, 11:53am, Paul F. Strack wrote: > Subject: IN> Celestial Population > I apologize if I'm opening an old can of worms here, but how many angels > and demons are there? This has a pretty major impact on the game, and I'm > really not sure what the answer should be. > > I would assume that there are more angels in Heaven than there are on > Earth, and its the number on Earth that I'm interested in. The most > striking effect would be how likely it is someone will spot Celestial > "noise" from disturbing the Symphony. Celestial population should be big > enough to result in interesting role-playing, but small enough to allow > for suspension of disbelief (and to avoid the Whitewolf "everybody is a > suprenatural being" syndrome). > > So what are people's opinions? The answer is 'bunches'. There is no useful reason to give an exact number, so the GM should just have them show up when dramatically necessary. The easiest way to do that is not to set a number at all! - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 07:44:59 -0600 (CST) From: "The Incredibly Unremarkable Cliffy Q. Scrimshaw" Subject: Re: IN> Summaries & compilations On Sat, 5 Apr 1997, Moriah - Steve Jackson Games wrote: > Maybe I'm having problems comprehending, but why does a summary of a song > take up a whole sheet? More than likely, you'll have the entire description > of the song on a sheet, no? This will impact the following questions. I was putting each on a separate sheet to make it easier to separate and attach only what was necessary to a person's char. sheet. > You may keep a master compilation for yourself. Under no circumstance may > you give a copy of that compilation to another person, regardless of medium. > You can give your compilation to someone if you hand over your original book, > too, and not keep any copies for yourself. > > You may give your players copies of only those sheets of songs, > attunements, etc... which pertain to their character only. That would be > about 7 out of the total 200 (approximately) sheets, no? That's OK, because > you're not giving out a complete compilation to any one person -- they're > only getting selected excerpts. > > You may create *true summaries* of the powers in the IN NOMINE book and > pass 'em around. A summary does not have the complete text of the ability. > For example: > > Kyriotate of Jean: Possess a (non-living) object. > Kyriotate of David: Possess a stone. > etc... > > The above is OK to do. A full description can only be kept for yourself and > *never* distributed. Web-publishing is distribution and may warrant legal > action. Maybe I should be a little more clear. What I am putting on the sheets for the players is a very condensed summary of the resonance, like "can detect whether target is telling the truth, as per table on p. xx. Dissonance gained from: lying". for each song, they say what it affects, what it does, and how to use it (move [eth. forces] lbs. with your mind, causes CD+[eth. forces] disturbance). For superiors, pretty much as you listed, plus listing distinctions and the other servitor attunements, listed like: "Howl: stun all enemies within range." > Again, only true summaries are OK. Full paraphrases (IOW, it might as > well be the full text) are not OK. it isn't as good as the text, as it doesn't describe details, just very basically what it does and how. On the other hand, it could be considered "might as well be the full text" from one POV because it does (or will; I'm not done yet) list the necessary mechanics and page refs to the book. maybe the best thing to do would be to send a copy to Moriah or somebody when it's done for approval. It would be a useful thing for many people, but I don't want to run afoul of SJ Games, the copyright laws, Moriah, or anything like that. I won't send out copies to anyone who has requested them until it is all done, straightened out, and approved. "Life is like a yo-yo: .-. it has its ups and downs, __ __| | plus a few loops now & then." \ V / (() --Matt, a.k.a. CliffyQS@Earthling.net |_| ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 09:49:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> Demon of Patriotism On Mon, 7 Apr 1997, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > > A better Word might be Nationalism. IMO, rabid nationalism > is bad thing, but we are sorely lacking in patriotism. > > I accept that Nationalism is a bad thing, but don't see the distinction between it and Patriotism. How do you distinguish the two. Are they both not just putting one's own nations interests ahead of those of other nations? BTW, I thought this demon was great! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 07:59:09 -0600 (CST) From: "The Incredibly Unremarkable Cliffy Q. Scrimshaw" Subject: IN> omitted details about summaries There will be one page for each Song, with all 3 versions on one page, not one page for each version (Cop., Eth., and Celest.). Why? because they fit easily, it's fewer pages to keep track of, and requires less paper. sorry for the confusion and ambiguity. matt s. "Life is like a yo-yo: .-. it has its ups and downs, __ __| | plus a few loops now & then." \ V / (() --Matt, a.k.a. CliffyQS@Earthling.net |_| ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 10:54:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #104 > > > >if there is no problem (I am trying to summarize, not copy parts of the > >text), would anyone else like a copy when I get done? > > > >matt s. > > > > If it's cool by SJG, please, sign me up for a copy! Post a copy to me too. Shadowcat ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 10:51:53 -0400 From: "C Lee Davis" Subject: IN> Replacing vessels Sorry if this has been hashed out already or if I just missed it, but my group spent a good two hours this weekend trying to figure out what is required for a celestial to replace a vessel that has been killed. Here's what we came up with, and why we're confused: 1. In "A Bright Dream," Nicole indicates that all Tariel needs is to get over his Trauma and regenerate some Essence, and he'll be good as new. "Soon, he'll earn enough Essence to make another corporeal vessel for himself, then he'll be back, prowling the streets again." 2. Nowhere in the book does it indicate how much Essence is required to create or assume a corporeal vessel, but it does describe the character point cost of buying a vessel. 3. When a celestial "takes off" his vessel, it's damage condition is frozen until he "puts it on" again. Thus, a vessel cannot recover from being dead while the celestial is Traumatized. 4. It costs 2 Essence to ascend to the celestial plane, but none to return to the corporeal. So here's what we came up with: When a celestial's vessel is killed, the celestial will immediately and instinctively attempt to ascend to the celestial plane. If she does not have the necessary essence, her celestial soul will remain trapped in the dead corporeal body until she can regenerate the essence required. Celestial discord can really catch up to you here... The issue of replacing the vessel remains unresolved. Any ideas? _______________________________________________Not the opinions of: Lee Davis APAC Information Services Dept. cldavis@ashland.com (770) 392-5456 "Nobody ever listens to Zathras. It is good that Zathras does not mind. He has even grown to like it." Zathras, War without End, Babylon 5 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 10:36:53 -0400 From: Tom Beliech Subject: IN> Marc and "Trade" I admit a certain trepidation over the entire concept of an Archangel of Trade - The portrayal of his "Word" seems slightly skewed in certain ways, in terms of how an "Angel" of trade would act. Perhaps my distaste for the corporate world is giving me a certain bias, so I'm looking for opinions on the following issues: 1) Should the rite "Make a 100% profit on an honorable transaction" be left strictly to GW interpretation? I assume making LESS that the 100% profit would be insufficient, but how much profit can a servitor of Marc make on a deal, ANY deal, before it goes to the realm of "dishonorable?" Could a 500% profit EVER be considered honorable, even if the deal was mutually satisfying? 2) If a servitor of Marc encountered someone who was making unfair deals, would he be "authorized" to give the swindler a taste of his own medicine? After all, the only thing that causes dissonance for such a servitor is breaking his word - this bothers me, since it seems that making an unfair deal does NOT cause dissonance, if both sides maintain their agreements! If an unfair deal was against such a servitor's nature, wouldn't it cause dissonance? It seems odd that more Seraphim, supposedly big on honesty, haven't caught on to this yet... 3) Marc's doesn't seem to be above a bit of skimming off the top: "He invented the concept of salary and doesn't stint himself" Well, he's definitely a Western-World kind of guy. I find it really odd that Novalis and Michael don't hate this guy, considering the current state of the business world in Western society, and what a mockery it seems to be making of "honor" and "peace" (not to mention what business is doing to the rainforest!). Is Marc HAPPY with business, American style, or is he just losing control of his Word? He seems to be getting gang-banged by Nybbas, Valefor and Vapula, but doesn't seem to be worried about it, based on the IN NOMINE book (sounds like a supplement for Marc is BADLY needed!) Any servitor of Marc in my campaign had better be stomping out greedy corporate lawyers, many of whom would be demons or demon-servants, since such types should be natural enemies of Marc, if we are to use Western society and "Golden Rule" ethics as our backdrop. 4) Is the "divine fortune" composed strictly of Essence? 5) Why should there be an invocation bonus for having "a dollar someone gave you for nothing"? That's not trade, that's a favor! Or "illegal goods, smuggled from another country"? That's not honorable unless one is smuggling medical supplies to help sick kids, etc. Smuggling diamonds illegally out of Africa, with the sole intention of making a profit off them, isn't the kind of thing that advances the cause of Heaven, UNLESS the diamond mines were ingaged in unehtical activity, and the profits were used in some wealful cause. Anything else is Greed, which was considered bad, the last time I checked on basic ethics... 6) How about THESE rites for Marc's servitors, instead of the ones in the book: - - Force a businessperson to adhere to a contract, when he or she was going to break it - - Expose a forged contract for what it is - - Prevent someone from signing a contract that would be "dishonorable" - - Overturn a law or contract loophole that allows lawyers/negotiatiors to take unfair advantage of unwitting but honest persons. And these invocation modifiers: +1 $50 or more earned in a verbal deal/contract +2 A ticket from a fair deal made at the NYSE +3 $100 of goods purchased from a "mom and pop" store that resisted being bought out by a large, agressive company +4 Expose 30 "bad traders" from Internet newsgroups (need not be done all at once) +5 Bust up a corporate monopoly +6 Expose the Gnomes of Zurich (for the Illuminati fans) Marc isn't the type of Archangel that needs to be spreading his word - business is everywhere. He ought to be more worried about getting control of it back from the demons... Tom Beliech badmoon@southeast.net "So, do you think you can tell Heaven from Hell, Blue skies from pain?" - Pink Floyd ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #106 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1996 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.