From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue May 6 20:45:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA16537 for ; Tue, 6 May 1997 20:45:05 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA20191 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 19:09:32 -0500 Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 19:09:32 -0500 Message-Id: <199705070009.TAA20191@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #155 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, May 6 1997 Volume 01 : Number 155 In this digest: IN> Vessels, sex, and children Re: IN> DOMINIC.NET IN> Beleth/Blandine & Dis IN> Kobal's big book of Word Bound Celestials Vol I Re: IN> Special request from the AA of Children (fwd) IN> Down with DOMINIC.NET! Laurence (Re: IN> 5 elephants, er elements... Re: IN> Re: your mail [none] Re: IN> DOMINIC.NET Re: IN> Ralph, Demon Prince of Apathy Re: IN> Re: Making GURPS Popular(Not Blasphemous) Re: IN> Down with DOMINIC.NET! IN> Weird things Re: IN> Down with DOMINIC.NET! IN> Your mailing list IN> Not-so-quick Questions IN> Good, Evil, God and Heaven... Re: IN> 5 elephants, er elements... Re: IN> 5 elephants, er elements... Re: IN> Re: your mail Re: Laurence (Re: IN> 5 elephants, er elements... Re: IN> Re: your mail Re: IN> Kobal's big book of Word Bound Celestials Vol I Re: IN> Good, Evil, God and Heaven... Re: IN> Good, Evil, God and Heaven... Re: Laurence (Re: IN> 5 elephants, er elements... IN> PBEM Re: IN> Ralph, Demon Prince of Apathy Re: Laurence (Re: IN> 5 elephants, er elements... Re: IN> Down with DOMINIC.NET! IN> Re: your mail ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 10:48:45 EST From: "PERRY M. LLOYD" Subject: IN> Vessels, sex, and children Hey, if the PC's want to have kids, let them try. As far as I'm concerned under normal circumstances Vessels cannot reproduce, HOWEVER, if a celestial's Role were to be purchased at a high enough level, I bet they could have kids. That's weird. Grigori anyone? That's brings up another point. Female vessels. Menarche and menopause I'm sure are not a problem. But what about the Menstrual Cycle? I'm told that it's a large part of female identity here on earth (just finished a Psychology of Women course). Would celestials get PMS? he he he, Lenore with PMS... "Run away!!! Run away!!!" Perry M Lloyd ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 May 97 11:13:14 EDT From: "Iota (Tom Wenisch)" Subject: Re: IN> DOMINIC.NET On Mon, 05 May 1997 15:44:25 -0400 (EDT) said: >i have to disagree with this description of dominic. first of all he is >not fallen so he shouldn't be so selfish. secondly he's a seraphim and >probably should seem to always do what he feels is right. i believe that >he would have known God would aquit Michael and did it just to keep him >in line. like the name taker in school, he just does what he is supposed >to. though he's not popular for it, its what he has to do. he's a good >being with a good heart buthas to keep angels on thier toes. > >jahon This raises an interesting issue: Maybe Dominic did know that God would intervene on Michael's behalf, but, then, the question is why would he attempt an inquisition against him? Perhaps because Dominic HAD to do it. IN leaves the issue of free will WIDE OPEN to GM interpretation. Indeed, the game almost encourages this as a fundamental questions for players to answer for their own characters. As I see celestial politics and the concept of being Word-bound, the closer you are to God or Lucifer, the less free you are. I would hold that Dominic was not free to choose any option BUT to persecute Michael. Which brings us to an interesting question on Eli: perhaps Eli is exercising Free Will. Perhaps this is his crime and this is why Dominic hunts him down. Now that I'm on this free will kick: Certainly, the Archangel of Destiny would claim that ones Destiny is ones Destiny, and ones Fate is ones Fate. Free Will is the illusion of being able to choose between the two, when both are inevitable. There are no chices for angels of the Sword, their honor decides their actions. Even on the Infernal side, Free Will isn't a reality. Every demon is "controlled" by their own version of the symphony, but they are no more free from it than any angel is from their superior. In the end, I think the issue is decided by the existance of dissonance. Since an angel/demon is never free from the risk of dissonance, are they ever truly free? Everyone's will is a part of the symphony. To go against that is dissonant, but, what is the end result of dissonance? ... -Iota (Tom Wenisch) Note: This Tagline left intentionally blank. ------------------------------ Date: 06 May 97 11:54:49 EDT From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM> Subject: IN> Beleth/Blandine & Dis Q: Beleth's and Blandine's Servitors may not take celestial form while on earth. How do they every ascend w/o incurring Dissonance (since they must first attain celestial form before ascending)? A: They must use dreamsurfing and ethereal tethers as pathways to the celestial realms to avoid Dissonance. Peace, Moriah ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 May 97 11:34:44 EDT From: "Iota (Tom Wenisch)" Subject: IN> Kobal's big book of Word Bound Celestials Vol I Kobal has been compiling a list of all the Word Bound Celestials he feels have been "shafted" by the Council of Seraphim and Lucifer. The lesson: when you ask for a Word, don't piss off the important Celestials, or you might just get your wish... Duncun, Demon of Long Distance Calling Plan Changes at Dinner Time Spammus, Angel of Meat Processing Gates, Demon of Bloated Over-sized Over-Priced Software Packages Genie, Demoness of Unevenly Spaced Stairs Aargh, Angel of Last Words Gygax, Angel of Ill-Fated Rope-playing Systems Jobbs, Angel of the Next Apple Doss, Demon of Aborting, Retrying, and Failing Yoonicks, Angel of Command Prompts Emil, Demon of Undeliverable Mail Responeses. Yooneevasitee, Angel of Total Quality Management Goberment, Demon of Total Quality Management Lucent, Demon of Inscrutable Advertising (sorry John... :) What do you guys make anyway? ) ("The things that make communications work...") :) Garfield, Demon of Card Games: the Addiction Peranoya, Demon of ... Sorry, you are not cleared to know his Word, Citizen. Witevolf, Angel of Noun: the Gerund Kobal is looking for reports of more of these poor Celestials. Please forward any more you find. -Iota (Tom Wenisch) Note: This Tagline left intentionally blank. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 09:28:18 -0700 From: Lizard Subject: Re: IN> Special request from the AA of Children (fwd) At 11:50 PM 5/5/97 -0400, Gregory Littmann wrote: > > > > > >Yes, I of all people am sinking to commiting SPAM on GURPSnet-L by >cross-posting this spam from In Nomine-L. But if there has *ever* been an >excuse for SPAM, it has to be this. Actually, this is the best argument for the banning of spam. It's over, the message was wrong when it wasn't over, and it's six months old besides. HM had a dimwitted scheme to gather hits on their *WEB SITE* by asking people to go to their *WEB SITE* and send email from the *FORM* on their *WEB SITE*. Then they'd give books to kids in Children's Hospitals. Somehow, this got converted into 'send email to us' when it was spammed across the net. Their servers were overloaded, their network crashed, and their tech crews missed Christmas trying to clean up the mess marketing made. Please note that word - -- CHRISTMAS. This was a *CHRISTMAS* promotion. This is now *MAY*. See what happens when you spam? Here's some wisdom for your use -- there is no legitimate charity which gives a smeg about email, or Campbells Soup labels, or business cards. They want *money*. There are no children dying of cancer who want to collect the most emails ever. Gorgeous young coeds do not wish to to talk to *you*, right now. There is no Santa Claus. You cannot Make Money Fast! If you wish to perform an act of kindness and charity, send THIS message back to everyone who passed on the HM spam, and tell THEM to send it to everyone who sent the original message to them, and so on back up the line. Then, maybe, this idiotic scam/spam will finally end. Be paranoid, suspiscious, callous, and selfish when reading about *any* charitable cause on the Internet -- or you will do more harm than good. Go drop a quarter in a homeless persons cup -- you'll feel just as warm&fuzzy and you'll know you're actually helping a real human being. >Greg. > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Tue, 6 May 97 00:48:36 UT >From: Kurt White >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: IN> Special request from the AA of Children > > >Just a quick message on behalf of the AA of Children, please take the time to >read it... > >Houghton-Mifflin publishing company is giving books to children's hospitals; >how many books they give depends on how many e-mails they receive from people >around the world. For every 25 e-mails they receive, they will give 1 book. >All you have to do is e-mail: > >share@hmco.com > >and type a message saying "children's hospitals book drive program" > > >Hope you can spare a few seconds ... let your friends know. So far they've >only received 3,400 messages ... last year they got 23,000. I think it would >be great if we could kick it up to 30,000 . Please forward this mail to ANYONE >you know. Thanks for your help (passed on for a friend). > >This came from a friend of mine, and seems to be the most spam-worthy piece of >mail I've gotten. Keep sending it please! > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 17:54:12 +0100 () From: "David.Evans" Subject: IN> Down with DOMINIC.NET! Kurt propounded that:- > > > I would just like to second this post if I may. I had the impression this was > a list dedicated to the finer aspects of In Nomine, not an in-joke spamming > session. > Hear-hear! I would like to second this. DOMINIC.NET gives a very bad inpression to those new to both this list and the game itself and the gamers who partake of In Nomine, as a caollection of sad, unfunny spammers (which most of us aren't). > I don't want to sound like some whingeing Elohim, but there is a time and a > place for everything, and this list is just too large for throw away jokes. > Absolutely. With a mailing list that generates 50 to 70 mails per day, the less noise on this list, the better. I must admit I'm having trouble keeping up with the sheer volume of traffic on this list and am infuriated by the pathetic signal to niose ratio at times, and am comsequently very glad of the efforts of those who sift through all the daily traffic and take off the cream for us all to savour on the two In Nomine Collection pages. Three cheers to both of them! > BTW - I love the twelve page replies with an entire message quoted, then some > sod writes "I agree" at the bottom :) Nybbas strikes!!!! > Yeah, that one made me wince, too. Eeeeuuuch! :( > I think I would like to second the eye poking out for the continuing saga > going on here. For a few posts it was cute, but after a while it grows stale. > Methinks I'll third it; personally, I didn't even think it waas cute the first time 'round... > This list is ABOUT role-playing not FOR role-playing. Would it be too much > to ask that this go to some private e-mail? > I don't think so. Anyone else? Be seeing you... David. "Nothing is so absurd as not to have been said by a philosopher." - Cicero. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 13:13:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Paul F. Strack" Subject: Laurence (Re: IN> 5 elephants, er elements... On Mon, 5 May 1997, Nathaniel P Eliot wrote: > I don't think his word extends that far - in fact, I'm having > problems with his word as written. I think I'm going to rule that > his word is actually a much larger celestial phrase, but the best > translation that could be easily read is Sword. The question is, > what does his word truely cover? What's the official word on > this (not that I'll listen much, but it'd be nice to know...)? My take on Laurence is that his word applies to Militaries, particularly Military Leadership. In a way, Laurence is a rather marginal Archangel. His word is obviously subsumed under Michael's. However, his actual *role* in Heaven's hierarchy gives him a higher place. Laurence is the general of God's army, a vital position that could only be held by an Archangel. I think that Laurence gets a lot of flak from Archangels with more significant Words, and often gets treated like the new-kid-on-the-block. Even his mentor Michael sometimes looks down on him. Laurence resents this treatment, but his Malakim's sense of honor will not allow him to do anything about it. Instead, he throws himself fanatically into this work in the hope of proving that he is worthy of Archangel status. The political maneuvering around the leadership of the Heavenly Host is rather complex. Some time ago, Dominic accused Michael of the sins of vainglory and pride. Dominic prosecuted Michael successfully, but then God intervened, pardonning the highest Archangel. Shortly after, Michael voluntarily stepped down as the leader of the Host, elevating his most favored lieutenant - Laurence - to replace him. Laurence suspects that he holds his position solely to due this political sculdudgery, and not because of any merit of his own. He is aware that Michael could come and take the mantel of leadership away from him at any time. He does his best to keep on Dominic's good side, and has been quite successful there. Laurence also tries to keep the favor of his mentor, consulting him on all the more difficult problems that arise. Still, Malakim are not well suited for walking such social tight-ropes, and the strain is beginning to show. Paul Paul Strack | Madness takes its toll. pfstrack@math.unc.edu | Please have exact change. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ World of Darkness Page - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/wod.html In Nomine Page: INC2 - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/innom/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 13:16:19 -0400 (EDT) From: gibsonc@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Re: your mail another question, the book says angels can age at a normal rate. also song of entropy can make them apper to age, but could an angel age at an eccelerated rate? i ask this because one of my celestials wanted to grow his hair longer in about an hour.( it wasn't for any real purpose so i allowed it) jahon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 13:31:27 -0400 (EDT) From: gibsonc@nku.edu Subject: [none] this is to whom ever posted the celestial (i think it was paul) the other day i had hoped to find them on a web page so i did not save them. could you please repost them or leave a webpage on which to find them? jahon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 13:27:36 -0400 (EDT) From: gibsonc@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> DOMINIC.NET i would not say dominic *had* to try michael in the way of no other choice but that he had to `cause that was the way of his word. michael had pushed the boundaries of pride. dominic knew the way things would turn out but he did to tell michael and the others no one is above judgemnet. dominic knew that others wouldn't approve but he has to do his job. jahon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 18:32:16 +0100 () From: "David.Evans" Subject: Re: IN> Ralph, Demon Prince of Apathy Scott wrote:- > On Sat, 3 May 1997, Thany wrote: > > > > > Also, has anyone thought of doing a more serious Prince of Apathy? > > That wouldn't exactly be an easy task. You run up against the problems > outlined in Ralph's writeup - first off, how did the Prince prove himself > worthy of the Word of Apathy? If I remember corectll, Lucifer can, if he's in the mood, give a Demon a lesser Word than the one that he was undergoing a test to prove himself worthy of holding. Perhapd he was trying to be the Demon of Overwork? I'd presume that once Lucifer had seen all the (sic) hard work and effort (!) that Ralph had put into his appointed task, that it must have amuseed Lucifer to appoint him as the Demon od Apathy instead. :-) Cute, huh? > Now that he's got it, what does he do with > it? Erm, bugger all, probably... :-) > What sort of servitors would actively devote themselves to Apathy? Those who used to serve the Demon Prince of Sloth? > The basic catch-22 is that if you're doing anything in the name of Apathy, > you're betraying it at the same time. Ralph seems like one of the few > ways of getting around that... > Heh. That's why *I* like him so much, too. Be seeing you... David. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 11:07:41 -0700 From: "Robert Coon" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Making GURPS Popular(Not Blasphemous) Shadowcat wrote: > > I just got my second copy. My father, the former head deacon of a > hell-fire and brimstone Baptist church sent it to me. It seems that the > former pastor, an old friend of mine, and given it to dad to send to me. > Dad read it, and found it highly interesting. We talked on the phone last > night for nearly an hour discussing the game. He wants me to set up a > senario for him the next time he gets up here to visit. This will be the > second RPG I have gotten him to play. Toon was the first, and he STILL > has all my origanal manuels for that and won't give them back. > So I guess what I am trying to say is the game may not pull down > the type of heat that people think. > The problem is, however, that the kind of people who go on crusades to wipe out "the evil beast known as role-playing" have this nagging tendency to know nothing of the game, just heard of it from other people. People have this tendency to fear what they don't know or don't understand. As an example, my friend's mother flatly refused to look at a copy of D&D despite the fact she felt it was evil. All you need is one crackpot spewing tales similar to those that got D&D the big black mark of the beast before you start seeing people getting all worked up. The subject material of In Nomine seems the _perfect_ bait for someone to begin ranting... Of course, this requires the game to get noticed in some way. I seriously doubt that it's big enough to gain the attention of anyone quite yet. I mean, what RPGs have you heard rants about, specifically? D&D and Vampire. What are (or at least were last time I checked) the two top-selling RPGs in the US? Bingo... Just wait, I have the feeling with as strong a setting as In Nomine has, it could easily wind up being in the top 5 RPGs. _Then_ look for the religious attacks. And having an RC editor is going to inflame a LOT of fundamentalists... Rob Coon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 11:15:12 -0700 From: "Robert Coon" Subject: Re: IN> Down with DOMINIC.NET! David wrote: > Kurt propounded that:- > > BTW - I love the twelve page replies with an entire message quoted, then some > > sod writes "I agree" at the bottom :) Nybbas strikes!!!! > > Yeah, that one made me wince, too. Eeeeuuuch! :( Does anyone else see the irony here? Rob Coon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 02:26:21 From: jaeden_handofgod@usa.net Subject: IN> Weird things You ever looked at the Tv screens in the picture of Nybbas, Prince of the media? It has a few Demon Princes and one extra person. :) Deus Ex Machina, Jaeden ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 13:22:16 -0500 From: tom timberlake Subject: Re: IN> Down with DOMINIC.NET! before you going looking to take down the Dominic.Net, keep in mind that the in-joke that you are referring to has evolved into a discussion about on of Heaven's 13 main personalities and his place/role, which are proper meat for our table and _not_ just spam. please keep in mind that patience is a virtue, and usually is rewarded, as it has been with this discussion evolving out of a cute in-joke. so kindly keep your killfile suggestions to your self. besides, I work as a security guard, I need a good laugh to help restore my basic humanity after spending a whole night looking after other people's mistakes! Tom Timberlake ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 14:43:06 -0700 From: "Manuel Rivera" Subject: IN> Your mailing list Hi! How do I get put on your mailing list? Mick ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 15:12:36 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: IN> Not-so-quick Questions On May 5, 3:10pm, gibsonc@nku.edu wrote: > Subject: > i've got two questions for those more wise than i: > > 1) if a celestial has sung the song of shields, than can she attack? i > said no because the text reads (i haven't got my book on me) something > like a shield through which no corporeal attack can be made. well, that's > paraphrased but it ruled that if you could attack the song was too powerful. Looking into this one. > 2) can celestial make a vessel of any creature? if u could create a human > vessel can you also make a monster vessel? i had a demon in my campaign > do just that. he used it to terrify a servant he had. The appearance of the vessel is up to the person who buys it. If you want to have special abilities, that's a trickier matter. I recommend getting a few levels of negative charisma and some Numious Corpus. Without Numious Corpus, the various apparent 'natural weapons' will not be much more effective than fighting barehanded, but gain real power when the spell is in effect. Non-Canon: A person who picks a large or small vessel (or other weird variations from the norm) could be given advantages/disadvantages inherent in the form. So a large humanoid vessel might have a penalty on Str and Agil when it comes to hitting and dodging blows, but would have a power bonus on the damage done. This is _totally_ a GM's call as there are no rules for anything of this sort. All you GMs out there make darn sure that anything bought isn't unbalancing. In general weird forms like this should be, on the average, _less_ useful that the base human form. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 15:08:29 EST From: temujin09@juno.com (Nathaniel P Eliot) Subject: IN> Good, Evil, God and Heaven... Okay - I have a small question which I know will probably spark a big thread: Who decides the fate of a human soul after death, and what criteria are there? Does the soul itself unconsiously choose, or does Saint Peter (Archangel Peter, maybe?) sit at the gates choosing? How was the critera set, and do they vary any? If there's a cannon answer I've missed, I'd like to know it, but all answers are good. ============================================================= | | | /\ | | Nathaniel Eliot | Chaos, Discord, and the | / \ | | temujin09@juno.com | Illuminated Way | / <> \ | | | | /______\ | ============================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 15:17:50 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> 5 elephants, er elements... > >Metal -> Laurence > > I don't think his word extends that far - in fact, I'm having > problems with his word as written. I think I'm going to rule that > his word is actually a much larger celestial phrase, but the best > translation that could be easily read is Sword. The question is, > what does his word truely cover? What's the official word on > this (not that I'll listen much, but it'd be nice to know...)? It certainly can be broader than just a hunk o' steel! Note that Gabriel's Word goes beyond mere physical flame. The sword symbolizes certain things. A good example is in Glorantha (formerly RuneQuest). The rune for death was a Sword. But, in addition to Death and Swords, it also stood for Separation (how the sword cuts the souls from the bodies) and few other things. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 15:05:05 EST From: temujin09@juno.com (Nathaniel P Eliot) Subject: Re: IN> 5 elephants, er elements... "Paul F. Strack" writes: >On Mon, 5 May 1997, Nathaniel P Eliot wrote: >> I don't think his word extends that far - in fact, I'm having >> problems with his word as written. I think I'm going to rule that >> his word is actually a much larger celestial phrase, but the best >> translation that could be easily read is Sword. The question is, >> what does his word truely cover? What's the official word on >> this (not that I'll listen much, but it'd be nice to know...)? > >My take on Laurence is that his word applies to Militaries, >particularly Military Leadership. In a way, Laurence is a rather >marginal Archangel. That was my thought, too - Michael seemed to cover just about every aspect of what I could see was Laurence's Word. The only things I could see seperating them were the sense of honor and organized battle that Laurence seemed to exemplify. >His word is obviously subsumed under Michael's. However, his actual >*role* in Heaven's hierarchy gives him a higher place. Laurence is >the general of God's army, a vital position that could only be held >by an Archangel. Your explaination was completely understandable, and gives me a better feel for the politicking that goes on even in Heaven. I'm also getting a better feel for the way Words work, too - my earlier question about who the angel of Water Shipping serves is easier to answer; maybe both, or otherwise whoever has the political power to get them to. Words are less mystical and more politically loaded then I had thought, which fits the dark feel of the setting well... ============================================================= | | | /\ | | Nathaniel Eliot | Chaos, Discord, and the | / \ | | temujin09@juno.com | Illuminated Way | / <> \ | | | | /______\ | ============================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 15:23:43 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: your mail At 1:16 PM -0400 5/6/97, gibsonc@NKU.EDU wrote: >another question, > >the book says angels can age at a normal rate. also song of entropy can >make them apper to age, but could an angel age at an eccelerated rate? >i ask this because one of my celestials wanted to grow his hair longer >in about an hour.( it wasn't for any real purpose so i allowed it) Mmmm... I'd say no, because growing hair longer in an hour makes for a great disguise, and makes things Too Easy. Maybe if they spent essence, I *might* reconsider, but I doubt it. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 12:28:32 -0700 From: "Robert Coon" Subject: Re: Laurence (Re: IN> 5 elephants, er elements... Paul Strack wrote... > The political maneuvering around the leadership of the Heavenly Host is > rather complex. Some time ago, Dominic accused Michael of the sins of > vainglory and pride. Dominic prosecuted Michael successfully, but then > God intervened, pardonning the highest Archangel. Shortly after, Michael > voluntarily stepped down as the leader of the Host, elevating his most > favored lieutenant - Laurence - to replace him. > I dunno... my take on it follows "official history" -- Michael controls the Heavenly armies, while Laurence is in charge of the Earthly armies, and control passed from Uriel to Laurence. On top of this, the two represent two distinctly different styles of war. Laurence represents the chivalrous and noble aspect of war, the Paladin archetype, the defender, while Michael represents the pragmatic and "dirty" aspect, the Berserker type. I guess it's sort of idealized war versus the real thing. From the material given, I would say Michael is an experienced warhorse -- he just plain kicks butt. However, Laurence is the inexperienced tactician, stubborn in believing that everything will work to his plan. It sounds like he's fairly weak in developing plans for failure or truly accounting for the nasty tactics of his opponents. Should he ever learn to take these into account, however, he could seriously hurt the Demonic forces... Laurence developing could truly alter the course of the War. Hmm... does Michael have an official choir? One would think he was a Malakite, but, if not, he may not really give a whit about fighting fair... Rob Coon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 15:34:11 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Re: your mail On May 6, 1:16pm, gibsonc@nku.edu wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> Re: your mail > another question, > > the book says angels can age at a normal rate. also song of entropy can > make them apper to age, but could an angel age at an eccelerated rate? > i ask this because one of my celestials wanted to grow his hair longer > in about an hour.( it wasn't for any real purpose so i allowed it) You can age at a normal rate, but no faster. I would say that Celestial Song of Form is required to grow hair that quickly. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 15:30:43 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Kobal's big book of Word Bound Celestials Vol I On May 6, 11:34am, Iota (Tom Wenisch) wrote: > Subject: IN> Kobal's big book of Word Bound Celestials Vol I > Kobal has been compiling a list of all the Word Bound Celestials he feels > have been "shafted" by the Council of Seraphim and Lucifer. The lesson: > when you ask for a Word, don't piss off the important Celestials, or you > might just get your wish... > > Lucent, Demon of Inscrutable Advertising (sorry John... :) What do you guys > make anyway? ) ("The things that make communications work...") :) String. Miles and miles and miles of string. You supply the tin-cans. Of course we CALL it fiber-optic cables and all sorts of electronic stuff... ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 15:52:53 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Good, Evil, God and Heaven... On May 6, 3:08pm, Nathaniel P Eliot wrote: > Subject: IN> Good, Evil, God and Heaven... > Okay - I have a small question which I know will probably > spark a big thread: > > Who decides the fate of a human soul after death, and what > criteria are there? Does the soul itself unconsiously > choose, or does Saint Peter (Archangel Peter, maybe?) sit > at the gates choosing? How was the critera set, and do > they vary any? > > If there's a cannon answer I've missed, I'd like to know > it, but all answers are good. There's no canon answer at the moment. IMO, there is an ineffable judge that determines the basic fate of the soul. This destination can be influenced by a variety of factors, causing differing results. Sometimes souls go astray (witness the guardians at the gates of hell and the presence of ghosts on earth) or simply dissapate, returning their Forces back to they symphony. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 16:08:32 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Good, Evil, God and Heaven... Nathaniel P Eliot wrote: > Who decides the fate of a human soul after death, and what > criteria are there? As you remark, there is no canonical answer, yet. However, in all three of the major monotheistic religions, there are only two answers -- God, and the soul itself. God as the ultimate decider is certainly orthodox. The soul as the ultimate decider is a bit indirect, and usually put in a form like, "God does not wish any soul to be lost, but some choose to reject Him," whether that rejection is conscious or unconscious, explicit or implicit. The most poetic form of this is the saying (I forget by whom) that "the fire of hell is the light of God as seen by those who reject Him." Similarly, C. S. Lewis suggested that the doors of hell may be locked on the INside. The book says that two supercharged angels of Dominic's (Malakim, I think they were) stand at the gate of Hell, watching for any soul that doesn't belong there. This would imply that some who have not rejected God may think that they have, or some such. Medieval fiction (e.g. Dante's Comedy) sometimes depicted angels and demons arguing over possession of a human soul. The angels can outgun the demons in these instances, but will yield the soul if convinced by the demons' arguments. Many religions, monotheistic and otherwise, have fictional or mythological settings of individual judgement. Appearing before St. Peter is a common Christian one. The Zoroastrians (?) had souls walk over a bridge that crossed a river of fire. For the righteous, the bridge was broad and steady; for the evil, it became a sword blade. In Egyptian myth, each soul appeared before a court of gods, to be sentenced either to paradise or to destruction. Modern descriptions of near-death experiences just seem to present the end results. Either you are greeted by a loving being of light (an angel or a dead relative or even Jesus) or, more rarely, you sink into a darkness full of monsters. Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 15:19:47 -0500 (CDT) From: Corey Subject: Re: Laurence (Re: IN> 5 elephants, er elements... MIke's a Seraph "Surely you don't expect the Jesuits to work in a straightforward way. What sort of Jesuits would they be then?" -Umberto Eco "Foucault's Pendulum" On Tue, 6 May 1997, Robert Coon wrote: > Hmm... does Michael have an official choir? One would think he was a > Malakite, but, if not, he may not really give a whit about fighting fair... > > Rob Coon > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 17:34:05 -0400 From: Hatcher Rhanyr Subject: IN> PBEM I saw a great deal of interest in a play by e-mail version of IN. I was curious, does anyone have experience with PBEM's. I wouldn't mind running it, but alas have little (as in none) experience with PBEM. Hatcher Rhanyr "The Angel of Bright Shiney Teeth" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 09:18:30 GMT+10 From: "Leathal Weapon" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: Re: IN> Ralph, Demon Prince of Apathy A comment on: > > The basic catch-22 is that if you're doing anything in the name of Apathy, > > you're betraying it at the same time. Ralph seems like one of the few > > ways of getting around that... I think the point that you people are missing is that a Demon Prince (or Archangel) are supposed to promote their Word on Earth. By having 'Ralph' do nothing, he is not promoting his Word, merely living it, which doesn't serve his goals or Hell's, annd he would have the Word taken away from him in a second. He and his servants are there to PROMOTE Apathy. This would generally involve them taking a very active part in human society saying to people when events occur "What do you care? Why do anything. There's nothing you can do anyway, so forget about it". Word-bound Celestials gain their standing and power by the number of HUMANS (or more accurately, mortals) living their Word, not the number of Angels or Demons. Jordi doesn't gain power by each of his Angels having ann animal form, he gains power by them protecting and increasing the number of animals. Therefore the Demon Prince of Apathy would be very, very active in convincing humans to do nothing, not himself or his followers. I think some people have to realise that Word-bound may take on some characteristics of their Word, but do not BECOME the Word to the point where they can no longer promote it. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 09:22:17 GMT+10 From: "Leathal Weapon" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: Re: Laurence (Re: IN> 5 elephants, er elements... > Hmm... does Michael have an official choir? One would think he was a > Malakite, but, if not, he may not really give a whit about fighting fair... Michael's a Seraph, it says it in about the second sentence of his description. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 17:54:59 -0500 (CDT) From: Thany Subject: Re: IN> Down with DOMINIC.NET! On Tue, 6 May 1997, Robert Coon wrote: > David wrote: > > Kurt propounded that:- > > > BTW - I love the twelve page replies with an entire message quoted, > then some > > > sod writes "I agree" at the bottom :) Nybbas strikes!!!! > > Yeah, that one made me wince, too. Eeeeuuuch! :( > Does anyone else see the irony here? Me, too. (Someone had to say it...) - -- "I've never had to knock on wood/And I'm glad I haven't yet/Because I'm sure it isn't good/That's the impression that I get" - The Mighty Mighty Bosstones ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 18:49:15 EST From: temujin09@juno.com (Nathaniel P Eliot) Subject: IN> Re: your mail "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" writes: >On May 6, 1:16pm, gibsonc@nku.edu wrote: >> another question, >> >> the book says angels can age at a normal rate. also song of entropy >> can make them apper to age, but could an angel age at an >> eccelerated rate? i ask this because one of my celestials wanted >> to grow his hair longer in about an hour.( it wasn't for any real >> purpose so i allowed it) > > You can age at a normal rate, but no faster. I would >say that Celestial Song of Form is required to grow hair that >quickly. I'd say that the Corporeal Song of Entropy might be allowed to do the same thing for this purpose. I'd say that a target of -1 is a good penalty for lack of skill, lost after succeeding on the roll with a check digit of 6. A successful roll grows hair by a number of inches equal to Corporeal Forces times the check digit; if the the roll succeeds exactly, the hair still grows, but so does everything else on the vessel's body, and the character will have to spend a couple of hours cutting his nails, cleaning the dandruff from his hair, and so on. ============================================================= | | | /\ | | Nathaniel Eliot | Chaos, Discord, and the | / \ | | temujin09@juno.com | Illuminated Way | / <> \ | | | | /______\ | ============================================================= ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #155 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.