From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu May 8 16:17:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05613 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 16:17:40 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA12904 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 8 May 1997 13:39:12 -0500 Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 13:39:12 -0500 Message-Id: <199705081839.NAA12904@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #158 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, May 8 1997 Volume 01 : Number 158 In this digest: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #156 IN> RE: PBEM Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #155 Re: New Angels (Re: Laurence (Re: IN> 5 elephants, er elements. Re: IN> Where Angels Come From Re: New Angels (Re: Laurence (Re: IN> 5 elephants, er elements... IN> Some Fiction Resources... IN> Islam, Christianity, and Angels of Faith Re: IN> Re: vessels, seeds, & children Re: Re[2]: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #155 Re: IN>Archangel of Death Re: IN> Question: Song of Shields Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #155 IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #157 IN> Eli on Hidden Camera IN> Ethereal Tethers IN> Laurence's Word Re: IN> the afterlife as mosh pit... IN> Resistance Rolls. Re: IN> the afterlife as mosh pit... Re: IN> Confusion in In Nomine... IN> Question about Kronos/Djinn Re: IN> Islam, Christianity, and Angels of Faith Re: New Angels (Re: Laurence (Re: IN> 5 elephants, er elements... Re: New Angels (Re: Laurence (Re: IN> 5 elephants, er elements. Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #155 Re: IN> Some Fiction Resources... Re: IN> Question: Song of Shields Re: IN> Where Angels Come From Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #155 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 20:02:33 -0600 From: dpearcy@io.com (Derek Patton Pearcy) Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #156 Walter Milliken wrote: >Check out some of the other screens -- some of them are enemies of >Nybbas. So Eli's being there may not say very much. Then again, you >never really know what's going on with Eli.... Here's a way to attack the problem: Nybbas is the Prince of the Media, and one of Eli's most powerful servants is the angel of Art. More today than ever, you can see why Nybbas wants to keep an eye on the Archangel of Creation. "Paul F. Strack" wrote: >>> Michael voluntarily stepped down as the leader of the Host, elevating >>> his most favored lieutenant - Laurence - to replace him. > >On Tue, 6 May 1997, Derek Patton Pearcy wrote: >> This is partially right; you're missing a step. Michael stepped aside to >> let Uriel, Archangel of Purity, take his place. When Uriel ascended to >> higher realms of Heaven, Laurence took his place. > >Oops! Looks like I need to read more carefully. I apologize for my >earlier mistatements. No problem; I don't think we stated that any place in the book, but that's an extra bit of continuity for everyone. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 21:07:42 -0500 From: rbeall@fdldotnet.com (Grim88) Subject: IN> RE: PBEM >Top three issues in PBEMs: > - you need a critical mass of players who will respond fairly > promptly, or the game will die. Minimum number of "active" players > is about 3-4. the slowness and turnover i agree with completely. However, this point i disagree with. Why do you need a minimum? I am currantly running a solo in nomine PBEM and its working great. I see no need for a minimum of three players. In fact, the less players you have, the less you have to worry about turn-around. So, I think it works best with say, 1-3 players. Just my thoughts. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 12:27:53 GMT+10 From: "Leathal Weapon" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #155 Can you send in some details about what these religions believe/ practice before I throw my 2 cents worth in? I have some ideas, but I am largely ignorant on the beliefs of these religions. > I'd like some angels who support Hinduism or Buddhism, actually... > > Mick Thanks, Leath. P.S. Mick, PLEASE learn how to the crap out of messages. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 12:17:36 GMT+10 From: "Leathal Weapon" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: Re: New Angels (Re: Laurence (Re: IN> 5 elephants, er elements. My thoughts on: > The exact mechanism of creation is a mystery - probably kept that way by > the powers that be. The only thing that is certain is that it requires > tremendous power, at least that of an Archangel or Demon Prince. The mechanism I was using was that any celestial could 'give birth' to a new celestial. It is an instinctive yet strenuous and draining procedure. The celestial must concentrate (I'm not sure how long for, probably at least a week) on how the newborn will appear, act think etc. then at the end of the 'planning stage' must make a Will roll and sacrifice their own Forces to do it (that's right, if you want to make a 3 Force reliever or Imp, you must give it 3 of your OWN Forces). For this reason, PCs will only VERY rarely try it. Even Archangels and Demon Princes avoid it if possible, because although they have vast power (ie. lots of Forces) it is still very draining. This is why (IMO) these superiors would rather make 'small' celestials (Relievers etc.) and let them work their way up to full Choir/Band status, rather than simply create a new celestial of appropriate power. Also, although the parent celestial must spend the time planning the 'offspring', there are no guarantees that the newborn's personality etc. will come out as planned. There is the random element. So although these offspring will usually share some similarities with their parent, they will still be unique individuals. Another house rule I have been using is that if a celestial has run out of Essence and desparately needs some more, they can sacrifice their Forces for 5 points of Essence per Force. This gives them a handy 'battery' of Essence. The down-side to this is that those Forces sacrificed are permanently gone. They can not be bought back with Essence, they must be re-built using character points. In essence (excuse the pun) the celestial is 'burning off' a piece of their soul for that small (but hopefully essential) boost of instant power. Also beware, if they attempt it too often, they run the risk of becoming an remnant...... There you go. Any thoughts? Leath. ------------------------------ Date: 7 May 97 20:56 CDT From: Christian Ritchie Subject: Re: IN> Where Angels Come From IMHO, NEW angels are either created from the Symphony, raised from "Bodhisattvas", or, as in Neil Gaiman's story, always there, and only become "activated" when God or another superior determines his time it is come. There are any number of possibilities. I've been toying with an idea about starting my characters all as humans, and having them become Soldiers in a very short time. Then, they would build up Forces, through game play, until they had sufficient to become Angels, when they would "Ascend" to that state. *Xian* Amirose of the Question. Angel of Suffering. P.S. Ask me sometime about my interest in the Holy Grail. I know tons about that particular object. ;) ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: IN> Where Angels Come From Author: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com at dell_unix Date: 5/7/97 7:22 PM At 4:39 PM -0700 5/7/97, Manuel Rivera wrote: > I have a question: where do new angels/demons come from? Was there a >fixed number in the beginning and both sides have lost some due to >attrition? It seems that Hell can "recruit" demons, but from where (other >than fallen angels). How does Heaven recruit/make/get new angels? Just >wondering... Canon: (p. 108, first paragraph) Superiors create them, on both sides. Opinion: This is perhaps a non-trivial task, as Hell chose to create lots of low-Force ones... Canon: (p. 191; errata, 7 forces, not 9, to "grow up") Relievers and Imps/Gremlins grow up to be angels/demons. Opinion: I think they are the celestial-born offspring of celestials in the celestial realm... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 11:48:36 +0930 From: "Damian O'Dea" Subject: Re: New Angels (Re: Laurence (Re: IN> 5 elephants, er elements... Paul F. Strack wrote: > Some of these spirits joined with Hell against their Heavenly > enemies. Not all of them are happy with Hell, but they hate > Heaven far more. Others realized that they could continue > their work under the auspices of Heaven, and Heaven welcomed > such spirits with open arms. These spirits were typically > "sainted", transformed into angels or whatever. A good example > of the process is Brigid, once a Celtic Godess, now a Christian > saint. Paul, do you have any more information on Brigid? How about a writeup of the character. Could you post it, just as an example sort of thingy? ODie... - -- === Damian O'Dea Damian.ODea@dsto.defence.gov.au === === Information Management & Fusion Group ph:(08) 259 5839 === === Information Technology Division fx:(08) 259 5619 === === DSTO - Salisbury, P. O. Box 1500, Salisbury, Adelaide, SA 5108 === ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 19:27:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Jason Durall Subject: IN> Some Fiction Resources... After going through my bookshelves, I thought I'd list a bunch of books relating to angels which might be good reference material or source for adventure/campaign ideas: Rapture, by David Sosnowski- An "angel plague" is causing people all over the world to gain wings, for no discernable reason, creating an entirely new minority on Earth. Zander Wiles, the main character, is the first "victim" to go public and try to exploit his condition. Resurrection Man, by Sean Stewart- Haven't read this one yet, but according to the back cover copy, it concerns a young man who discovers that he's actually an angel raised on Earth. The Warhound and the World's Pain, by Micheal Moorcock- Lucifer, cast from Heaven, seeks to return and gain the ear of God, and enlists a veteran mercenary on a quest through war-torn post-Dark Ages Europe to find the Holy Grail. Bring Me the Head of Prince Charming, If at Faust You Don't Suceed, A Farce to Be Reckoned With, by Roger Zelazny and Robert Sheckley- These books (loosely a trilogy), concern the efforts of the demon Azzie Elbub to win one for the home team in various contests of Good versus Evil. Light comedy along the lines of "Good Omens," though set in the past and a set more in the celestial realms. The Encyclopedia of Witchcraft and Demonology, by Rossell Hope Robbins- A general reference work on those subjects, rather incomplete and with a hit-or-miss organization of the entries. Other media sources I'd recommend are: The CD "When I Was a Boy," by Jane Siberry (lighter alternative music, with songs titled "The Gospel of Darkness," "Calling All Angels," "An Angel Stepped Down," "Temple," and others in that vein). Finally, I'm surprised that the film "Faraway, So Close" didn't make it into the In Nomine sources list. The sequel to "Wings of Desire," it tells the story of another angel to give up his divinity and make his way on Earth, to find himself the pawn in a struggle between an angelic guardian and a demonic instigator. _________ Jason Durall triton@seanet.com jason.durall@milliman.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 22:34:33 EST From: temujin09@juno.com (Nathaniel P Eliot) Subject: IN> Islam, Christianity, and Angels of Faith >As Salamu Alaikum, Always wondered how that was spelled. Peace be with you too (or am I translating it wrong in my head?). >Muslims not Moslems. Islam was not founded by Gabriel but revealed >through him. Laurence PERSONALLY protects Christianity; i.e.' it is >not his job, he does it because he wants to as a "collateral duty". You do raise a good point - angels may have there own agendas which, especially at higher levels, tend to have nothing to do with their official duties. Out of curiousity, does anybody care to guess the official wordbound angel of Christianity, Islam, and/or Judiasm? IIRC, Khalid has a tie to Islam, but I think his Word is more encompassing than Islam. >Additionally I'd like to add that Dominic's inquest of Gabriel and >Micheal is/was sparked by his personal preference for Christianity >by which he measures the truth. Jews, Christians and Muslims can >and do lay claim to the same heritage, but they each find each >other's beliefs equally heretical. That brings up a good point, related to my Good and Evil post - there are things that different sects of the JudeoChristian/Islamic religeons that see in different light. Given that at least two of the three major groups are known to be represented, and the third pretty easy to assume, how are the conflicts resolved? For instance, fundamentalist Islam (AFAIK) bans alcohol, but alcohol is part of some Catholic rites (again, AFAIK). What does this imply for the angel of Alcohol? >IMHO it seems that alot of people are posting distinctly Christian >points of view, which in and of itself pose no problem. My only >complaint is that I would appreciate some research into any faith >before including it in your point of view. I am a Muslim so Islam >of course is important to me. If I used the Waco insident as a >reference for Christianity I'm sure I'd regret it. I must also >include that I am glad so far that no one has generalized Muslims >as terrorists. Hmmm - given that I'm an atheist, I should probably be checking *everything* before I post or make assumptions. However, that does raise an interesting question - how well did In Nomine cover Islam? And of course we don't think of all Muslims as terrorists - some we think of as slick salesmen (Ah, salam and good evening, worthy friend...). ============================================================= | | | /\ | | Nathaniel Eliot | Chaos, Discord, and the | / \ | | temujin09@juno.com | Illuminated Way | / <> \ | | | | /______\ | ============================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 12:09:48 +0930 From: "Damian O'Dea" Subject: Re: IN> Re: vessels, seeds, & children Tony Zbaraschuk wrote: > > Cymrys@aol.com wrote: > > Vessels are not normal human bodies;[snip] > > Ergo, they probably don't have the capability for reproduction, > > [snip] > Perhaps celestials *used* to be able to become fertile with > humans, but God (or the Seraphim Council) tightened the rules > a bit after the Grigori went wild. One could imagine that it may depend upon ones superior. Eli's probably would be and Novalis' might be fertile. Andre~s' will possibly have a choice, depending upon convenience, purpose, etc. Other superiors see no gain in such things and hence will not bother building fertility into the vessels. Interpretation could come into this here; some might choose to focus on the creative aspects of Fire and argue that Gabriel would allow a servitor's vessel to be fertile. The chances are that in most cases this is unlikely to be viewed by the superior as a useful aspect of the vessel and so it just isn't the case. Perhaps lost knowledge amongst the Grigori would allow the rules to be broken "in the field" as it were. > New celestials have to come from somewhere -- > then again, who says it has to be the same way as humans do it? I liked the "Murder Mysteries" (Gaiman, Angels and Visitations) view that the original Angels were all created by God and had to waited in their cells in the Silver City for their need to arise. Once needed, they gained consciousness and went about performing their duties. Most of them had a "purpose" and so I imagine would be treated as Word-bound. These days, perhaps new Angels have to be authorised by the Seraphim Council (in the absence of God). Whether new Angels are empowered minor spirits (a la Relievers, I think), 'extra' Angels that are "activated" from a dormancy within the Silver City, without a Word because God did not call them, or just form out of the Essence of the universe, I don't know. I think creation of new Angels is something in the purview of the Archangels more than characters though. ODie... - -- === Damian O'Dea Damian.ODea@dsto.defence.gov.au === === Information Management & Fusion Group ph:(08) 259 5839 === === Information Technology Division fx:(08) 259 5619 === === DSTO - Salisbury, P. O. Box 1500, Salisbury, Adelaide, SA 5108 === ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 22:54:10 -0700 From: "Manuel Rivera" Subject: Re: Re[2]: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #155 Oh yeah? I was wondering where new angels come from and I got an idea: why doesn't heaven get a group of angels together who do nothing but make *new* angels; i.e. mass production of holy warriors. And then I thought "hmmm... what archangel would fit this bill better than the archangel of creation, Eli". Naturally, this was followed by "what if he's doing it already, for his own unfathomable reasons...". That's why no-one ever sees him. He's making an army... Which is, of course, why certain demon princes want to keep tabs on him. Hmmm... especially if he's working for them... Mick, angel of Raving Paranoia > Eli holds a special place of contempt and fear in Nybass' heart. Eli, > Archangel of Creation, of creativity, of selfthought. Paint a picture, > write a song, read a book. These are Eli's gifts to man. This is the enemy > of everything Nybbas seeks to create. Eli, IMHO, is going to be, in Gods > eyes, the salvation of man and angel alike. > > We shall see. > > *Christian* > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 22:55:30 -0700 From: "Manuel Rivera" Subject: Re: IN>Archangel of Death Yeah, we need a *good* angel of death. ESPECIALLY if she looks like a certain cute goth chick... > This is something that gets bandied back and forth about every > week, so I thought I'd toss in my two cents. (Well, cent, maybe. > Halfpence, at least.) > In my campaign, there is an Archangel of Death, but she operates > out of one of the higher levels of heaven, and doesn't have any > servitors. Or at least none that the players are ever likely to > meet. She usually appears as this cute Goth chick . . . ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 23:45:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Kinney Subject: Re: IN> Question: Song of Shields On Wed, 7 May 1997, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > All three Songs of Shields word both ways. A powerful > defense, but also a pain in the butt sometimes. ;) > I'd better ask this before it comes up in play... :-) Is the Celestial Song of Light (the one that lets you throw light beams for damage) affected by the Song of Shields too? I don't remember the wording myself, but somehow I figured that wind blasts (the song I took) wouldn't deflect light... of course, it would work the other way, too, and the essence cost is rather extravigant. Of course, if it doesn't work like that, it's still cool, but if it don't work, it don't work. :-) Mark Kinney | mailto:alberich@iglou.com | http://www.iglou.com/nations/ "Touch passion when it comes your way, Stephen. It's rare enough as it is; don't walk away when it calls you by name." -- Marcus Cole, "Babylon 5: Lines of Communication" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 23:18:14 -0700 From: "Manuel Rivera" Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #155 Beware, 'cause this is a long one: God knows I'm not an authority (on any religion), but the basic tenants of Buddhism are derived from their "Four Noble truths": the truth of suffering, the truth of the cause of suffering, the truth of the end of suffering, and the truth of the path to the end of suffering (the middle road). Essentially, life is often painful, for various reasons, but through the middle path you can achieve nirvana (salvation, eternal peace, whatever). The middle path is the path between too much indulgence and too much asceticism. Hinduism is not a religion in the strict sense of the word. It is a recommendation for living a "disciplined, pure and blissful life needed for God realization". Its basic tenants involve the desire to obtain a better present and next life through proper karma (actions) in the present life. The guidelines for better living to achieve such a 'liberation" (moksha) are the contents of the Vedas, the fundamental scriptures of Hinduism. Hindus believe that every human being is divine by nature and the purpose of life is to expose that divinity to the fullest possible extent. Based on the Vedic recommendations, Hindus believe in one formless and all pervading God called Brahma who is the creator of the universe and represents the supreme truth. I would recommend furthur reading to everyone, naturally, since my attempts to "condense" the beliefs of two major religions can only do so much justice to their practitioners. I have personally come to believe that most religions have a heaven/ eternal reward/state of being that can only be attained through specific actions, and these actions *tend* to be very similar; love thy neighbor, be a decent individual, don't hack up babies, etc. Mick > Can you send in some details about what these religions believe/ > practice before I throw my 2 cents worth in? I have some ideas, but I > am largely ignorant on the beliefs of these religions. > > > I'd like some angels who support Hinduism or Buddhism, actually... > > > > Mick > > Thanks, > Leath. > > P.S. Mick, PLEASE learn how to the crap out of messages. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 23:52:42 -0600 From: dpearcy@io.com (Derek Patton Pearcy) Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #157 ixDragons wrote: >Muslims not Moslems. My apologies. Derek ------------------------------ Date: 08 May 97 00:26:07 EDT From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM> Subject: IN> Eli on Hidden Camera - ----Forwarded Message(s)---- From: Christian Ritchie Subject: Re[2]: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #155 IMHO, the picture of Eli, and knowing the nature of demons, is those people Nybbas most feels are a threat to him. Other demons, this is no secret, but Eli. Eli holds a special place of contempt and fear in Nybass' heart. Eli, Archangel of Creation, of creativity, of selfthought. Paint a picture, write a song, read a book. These are Eli's gifts to man. This is the enemy of everything Nybbas seeks to create. Eli, IMHO, is going to be, in Gods eyes, the salvation of man and angel alike. We shall see. *Christian* >>>You ever looked at the Tv screens in the picture of Nybbas, Prince of >>>the media? It has a few Demon Princes and one extra person. :) >> >>Yep, Eli. Noticed this a while back.... wonder why? > >Either it's misinformation to incite Dominic and his followers (which I >would not put past any of Satan's Princes, much less Nybbas) or Eli is >in a bad way... Check out some of the other screens -- some of them are enemies of Nybbas. So Eli's being there may not say very much. Then again, you never really know what's going on with Eli.... - ---Walter - ----End Forwarded Message(s)---- ------------------------------ Date: 08 May 97 01:10:53 EDT From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM> Subject: IN> Ethereal Tethers >Ethereal Tethers? (And what about Corporeal tethers?) Connections from the Corporeal Realm to the Marches. They'll be detailed in "The Marches". They work just like Celestial Tethers. They used to be much more common before Uriel's purge. Now there are just a few left to B&B's realms and a few well hidden ones from Pagan shrines to the Far Marches. Peace, Moriah ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 01:31:51 -0400 (EDT) From: "Michael C. Nutt" Subject: IN> Laurence's Word My take on Laurence's Word, which may be invalidated in part or whole by _Night Music_, is that "Sword" is a highly metaphorical expression of the corporeal Armies of God, as in "Sword of the Lord". Think of it as a version of "I am the Right Hand of my Boss", sorta... Laurence is in charge of leading these Armies, and of bringing Soldiers of God into being, and training them. He also is the one coordinating the overall thrust of the War, at least on the Corporeal front. These Armies and Soldiers are one of the principal ways that the Forces of Heaven affect the corporeal realm, practically by definition. Yes, there are many other Servitors of other Archangels influencing the corporeal realm, but if Laurence sends a directive out through the Heavenly channels, other Archangels are expected to pay heed to it, as that's *Laurence's* Word. His major problems, in my view, are that he's an overly idealistic strategist, and thus somewhat inflexible, and that he's too reactive instead of being *proactive*, thus surrendering some of the initiative to the Diabolical legions. Excessive attention to the details of honor can do things like that to you, and is one reason why Michael's term as Leader of the Host was a better time in general for the Heavenly forces. Campaign ideas leap to mind from these premises... what if a Servitor of Michael gets fed up enough with what he sees as Laurence's "piddling about", ad decides to lecture him/his servitors on the virtues of offensive action, or better yet, *show* them? Will Laurence and his Servitors be flexible enough to admit that there might actually *be* a better way to handle things, or will they dislike having their leader's abilities impugned? Will Laurence attempt to get closer control over some Soldiers pledged to other Superiors? Tune in next week for more... :) If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not the sport for you. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 01:51:38 -0500 From: Mage Bob Subject: Re: IN> the afterlife as mosh pit... ixDragons sends.... >Unfortunately for this theory Original Sin is a Christian idea and In >Nomine is not specifically Christian. hon, it was supposed to be at least a little funny, and just because only Christians recognise origional sin doesn't mean that it dosen't exist/effect a souls path through the afterlife... What the hell, did I just DEFEND christianity? *Pulls out Gun, shoots self* ~Ex-Mage Bob zombi of samingus ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 01:18:24 -0500 From: Scott Turnbull Subject: IN> Resistance Rolls. Just wondering about the mechanics of some resistance rolls for songs. Some song state that the target of a song may make a particular resistance roll. However when a song states something like 'Celestials may add their celestial forces to an intelligence roll' does this mean that ONLY celestials can resist, or that anyone can try to resist, but only celestials get the CF's added? Sorry if it seems like I'm splitting hairs, but it leaves me a bit confused. Also, when a resistance roll is made for the effects of a song, does the check digit or the resistance roll subtract from the check digit of the song performers roll or does any successful resistance completely negate a songs effects? Cheers Scott ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 08:54:50 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> the afterlife as mosh pit... ixdragons@worldnet.att.net wrote: > Unfortunately for this theory Original Sin is a Christian idea and In > Nomine is not specifically Christian. But, as I remarked in a recent post, many religions have some equivalent or analog to Original Sin. In Buddhism, there's attachment and bad karma. Hinduism also uses the concept of bad karma. Judaism has the concept of a "will to evil" and a "will to good" battling in every human heart. Etc. Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 09:09:31 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Confusion in In Nomine... > I hope in this session of clarifications I can get some help with Charming > and Stunning. Sigh: I see to end up with more questions as time goes on, > and I haven't gotten any answers posting to the list--Beth suggested I > write you directly. Could I help things by volunteering to help with the > FAQ? Maybe I could write up stun and charm entries once you point me at the > right answers? I'd also be tempted to start a Kyrio FAQ, though I'm not > sure I have the time for something that big. :/ And, I don't want to step > on any toes, here. All (or nearly all) Canon answers are already in the FAQ. The 'gods' of In Nomine discuss intently anything that changes one of the core rules before making it official. In addition to the dozen or so Kyriotate questions, I have a dozen more that I have my own answers to, but need to get confirmed! ;) Don't worry about my toes, they are well armored. > The Song of Charm says, "It's possible to be so damn charming to people > they're stunned." This is listed in the index under "stunning," page 78, > giving it something of an official air. Is it to be taken literally and > cause physical stunning if a characteristic is reduced enough? (And what is > enough?) If not, the entry should probably be removed from the index. Stunned in the general sense of the word, not the game mechanic sense. This will probably have to be errata-ized. > Should the Song of Charm be taken as purely characteristics lowering or > should it have implicit effects on the character? For example, should > effects like these be considered as resulting from a characteristic being > lowered to one: > Strength--the character collapses in a heap > Agility--the character cannot make a physical attack > Intelligence--unable to make a mental attack or decision > Precision--unable to walk and chew gum simultaneously > Will--unable to decide to act > Perception--blinded GM's call on this, though I would write the categories a bit different. > After all, if the characteristic is lowered to one, it's an automatic > failure, unless essence is spent. Don't forget that most normal activities don't require a roll at all and that the minimum level for a skill is '1' for a total minimum of '2' on any known skill. > While someone is stunned, does he still resist further attacks with Will > rolls? Can he spend Essence to boost his Will rolls or for any other reason > while still stunned? The line in the manual is, "A character can take no > action while stunned." Page 62. So it sounds like no Essence use; the > question seems to me to be whether the basic Will resistance is conscious > or inherent. Essence for Will rolls is still acceptable. The Will roll to defend is not an 'action', per se, nor is spending the Essence to enhance a roll. > If one part of a Kyrio is stunned, what happens? Since the Kyrio's > characteristics are active while in the host, it seems like the stun should > make it into the Kyrio. At least, I'd think those Forces should be > unavailable for the duration. Kyrio rules are a pain, aren't they? A > non-stunning question: when an Impudite of Vapula looks at one of a Kyrio's > hosts or vessels, how much essence will his band attunement sense? All? A > proportional amount? Maybe that is a stunning question: I'm getting stunned > thinking about it! ;) I'd say that 'X' portion of the Kyriotate's Forces are unavailable til the stun goes away (imagine that some paralyzed one of your arms... the rest of your body will still function). The rest of the angel goes merrily about its business. The Impudite would get the full amount that the Kyriotate owned. (That's _some_ honkin' squirrel!) ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 09:35:30 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: IN> Question about Kronos/Djinn On May 7, 5:06pm, gibsonc@nku.edu wrote: > Subject: > does a djinn of kronos know automatically if a person if attuned to a > celestial? I'd give them a Perception roll to discover whether they had 'displaced' a Cherub's attunement. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 10:21:12 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Islam, Christianity, and Angels of Faith Nathaniel P Eliot wrote: > Out of curiousity, does anybody care to guess the > official wordbound angel of Christianity, Islam, and/or Judiasm? > IIRC, Khalid has a tie to Islam, but I think his Word is more > encompassing than Islam. I'm not sure what you mean by "official," but in the book of Daniel, Gabriel specifically describes Michael as the guardian of Israel, and Christianity has a long tradition of regarding Michael as the protector of the Church. Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 11:24:11 -0400 (EDT) From: "Paul F. Strack" Subject: Re: New Angels (Re: Laurence (Re: IN> 5 elephants, er elements... On Thu, 8 May 1997, Damian O'Dea wrote: > Paul, do you have any more information on Brigid? How about a > writeup of the character. Could you post it, just as an example > sort of thingy? Er, er, er. I'm not actually the Celtic expert in my household. And to be honest, I don't know very much at all about Brigid as a Christian Saint. Give me a couple of days, though, and I'll see what I can come up with. Paul Paul Strack | Madness takes its toll. pfstrack@math.unc.edu | Please have exact change. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ World of Darkness Page - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/wod.html In Nomine Page: INC2 - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/innom/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 11:19:02 -0400 (EDT) From: "Paul F. Strack" Subject: Re: New Angels (Re: Laurence (Re: IN> 5 elephants, er elements. On Thu, 8 May 1997, Leathal Weapon wrote: > Another house rule I have been using is that if a celestial has run > out of Essence and desparately needs some more, they can sacrifice > their Forces for 5 points of Essence per Force. This gives them a > handy 'battery' of Essence. The down-side to this is that those > Forces sacrificed are permanently gone. They can not be bought back > with Essence, they must be re-built using character points. In > essence (excuse the pun) the celestial is 'burning off' a piece of > their soul for that small (but hopefully essential) boost of instant > power. Also beware, if they attempt it too often, they run the risk > of becoming an remnant...... Oooh, I like this. Personally, though, I don't think 5 Essence is enough for such a sacrifice. I'd let them completely recharge to their full capacity of Essence (i.e. the new total of their Forces). On the down side, though, I'd determine *which* Force they lost randomly, as with Celestial damage. Paul Strack | Madness takes its toll. pfstrack@math.unc.edu | Please have exact change. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ World of Darkness Page - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/wod.html In Nomine Page: INC2 - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/innom/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 May 97 11:29:12 EDT From: "Iota (Tom Wenisch)" Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #155 On Wed, 07 May 1997 17:11:37 -0400 said: >Derek Patton Pearcy wrote: >> > >As Salamu Alaikum, > Muslims not Moslems. Islam was not founded by Gabriel but revealed I was under the impression that the Arabic language did not include vowels in the written form of the language. In this case, I would imagine the choice of vowels in the transliteration to English wouldn't matter. I am no scholar on Islam, nor do I speak Arabic, so I defer to the expertise of others on this matter... Can someone confirm/correct me on this? -Iota (Tom Wenisch) Note: This Tagline left intentionally blank. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 10:23:28 -0500 (CDT) From: Shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> Some Fiction Resources... Could you please post the ISBN numers for these books? Shadowcat All cats may look upon a king. No comment on the Queen ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 11:32:37 -0400 (EDT) From: "Paul F. Strack" Subject: Re: IN> Question: Song of Shields On Wed, 7 May 1997, Mark Kinney wrote: > Is the Celestial Song of Light (the one that lets you throw light beams > for damage) affected by the Song of Shields too? I don't remember the > wording myself, but somehow I figured that wind blasts (the song I took) > wouldn't deflect light... of course, it would work the other way, too, and > the essence cost is rather extravigant. I doubt the Corporeal Song of Shields would do much good agains the Song of Light. On the other hand, the *Ethereal* Song of Shields - which blocks Songs and other supernatural powers - would do quite nicely. Paul Strack | Madness takes its toll. pfstrack@math.unc.edu | Please have exact change. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ World of Darkness Page - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/wod.html In Nomine Page: INC2 - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/innom/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 May 97 13:08 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Where Angels Come From > I've been toying with an idea about starting my characters all as > humans, and having them become Soldiers in a very short time. Then, > they would build up Forces, through game play, until they had > sufficient to become Angels, when they would "Ascend" to that state. While this is fine for your game, I believe it is now canon that humans *never* become celestials (or vice versa). There's supposed to be an evolutionary path for humans past Soldier, though... Saints are supposed to be covered in Night Music, I believe. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 22:44:05, -0500 From: ErinTheBlack@prodigy.com (MR JOSEPH B CONNOLLY) Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #155 - ->I saw a great deal of interest in a play by e-mail version of IN. I was - ->curious, does anyone have experience with PBEM's. I wouldn't mind - ->running it, but alas have little (as in none) experience with PBEM. To whoever is interested in playing/running a PBEM, I have some experience in both running and playing PBEMs. I could give you some tips about what has worked for me, and what didn't work. I can't claim to be an expert, but I've been active in various PBEMs for a little over a year. I personally don't have the time to run one right now, but I'd be willing to help out someone else who is so inclined. I'd also be interested in playing. --Joe ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #158 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.