From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri May 9 00:44:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA28770 for ; Fri, 9 May 1997 00:44:54 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA15631 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 8 May 1997 23:19:21 -0500 Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 23:19:21 -0500 Message-Id: <199705090419.XAA15631@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #159 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, May 8 1997 Volume 01 : Number 159 In this digest: Re: IN> RE: PBEM Re: IN> Where Angels Come From Re: IN> PBEM IN> PBEM Re[2]: IN> Where Angels Come From IN> Religion in In Nomine Re: IN> Where Angels Come From IN> Arabic Re: IN> Some Fiction Resources... Re: IN>Archangel of Death Re: IN> Where Angels Come From Re: IN> Religion in In Nomine IN> IN NOMINE: re: Sex and the single celestial [none] IN> Demons Smoking... Re: IN> Vessels, sex, and children Re: IN> Ethereal Tethers Re: IN> Resistance Rolls. IN> various in-nomine questions Re: IN> PBEM Re: IN> Some Fiction Resources... Re: IN> the afterlife as mosh pit... Re: IN> Confusion in In Nomine... Re: IN> Islam, Christianity, and Angels of Faith IN> Muslims not Moslems Re: IN>Archangel of Death Re: IN> Where Angels Come From IN> In Nomine Mood Music Re: IN> Demons Smoking... Re: IN> Where Angels Come From Re: IN> Demons Smoking... Re: IN> Demons Smoking... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 08 May 97 13:03 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> RE: PBEM > Why do you need a minimum? I am currantly running a solo in >nomine PBEM and its working great. I see no need for a minimum of three >players. In fact, the less players you have, the less you have to worry >about turn-around. So, I think it works best with say, 1-3 players. Just my >thoughts. I wasn't thinking about solo games -- as you point out, those would tend to work better. But in the "typical" game with a group of PCs, it's been my experience that they die if there are less than three active players (plus GM) at any time. I think this mostly has to do with the level of stimulation -- with more people posting, there's more to react to, and less chance of a dead silence occurring. Also, there's less chance that a significant fraction of your players will be offline at once. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 13:12:38 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Where Angels Come From On May 7, 8:56pm, Christian Ritchie wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> Where Angels Come From > IMHO, NEW angels are either created from the Symphony, raised from > "Bodhisattvas", or, as in Neil Gaiman's story, always there, and only > become "activated" when God or another superior determines his time it > is come. There are any number of possibilities. It's canon that human souls and angelic souls are essentially different. One cannot become the other, so anyone that is human can't become an angel. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 22:53:31 EST From: temujin09@JUNO.COM (Nathaniel P Eliot) Subject: Re: IN> PBEM >PS: LOOK MA, 8 lines, one sentence, three periods... I noticed that about 1/3 of the way through. Anyway, if email is a problem, the obvious solution is, of course, a free-emailer. I use JUNO - it is supposed to be advertising to me, but as a 17 year old student with no job, I guess I fall in the fairly undesireable category. Come summer, I'd love to join. An Elohim of Jean (Spock, anyone?), a Malakim of War or maybe Sword (yeah, predictable, but...), or a Kyriotate of War all look fun. Or just about anything except an angel of Judgement, Dreams, Flowers, or a Seraphim. >~Mage Bob, he who neglects to breath when he types >Nobody ever says, "I wan`ta write driver code when I grow up." You never knew me as a kid, didja? ;-/ ============================================================= | | | /\ | | Nathaniel Eliot | Chaos, Discord, and the | / \ | | temujin09@juno.com | Illuminated Way | / <> \ | | | | /______\ | ============================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 16:18:37 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> PBEM >>>>I saw a great deal of interest in a play by e-mail version of IN. I was curious, does anyone have experience with PBEM's. I wouldn't mind running it, but alas have little (as in none) experience with PBEM.<<< As Walter pointed out, PBEM games are a different animal than face-to-face games. I am running an In Nomine game online on CompuServe's RPGAMES Forum. Online games don't have the immediacy of a ftf game, and what might be one night's gaming ftf can take months online. But they also offer the ability to roleplay and storytell with a depth that few GMs and players can pull off impromptu, face to face. There is also the advantage of having a potentially unlimited player pool, from whom you can pick and choose. - -David ------------------------------ Date: 8 May 97 14:43 CDT From: Christian Ritchie Subject: Re[2]: IN> Where Angels Come From I suppose I should get Night Music, then, and if you know of any other suppliments that might contain useful info for human ascension, I would appreciate it. *Xian* ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: IN> Where Angels Come From Author: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com at dell_unix Date: 5/8/97 12:12 AM > I've been toying with an idea about starting my characters all as > humans, and having them become Soldiers in a very short time. Then, > they would build up Forces, through game play, until they had > sufficient to become Angels, when they would "Ascend" to that state. While this is fine for your game, I believe it is now canon that humans *never* become celestials (or vice versa). There's supposed to be an evolutionary path for humans past Soldier, though... Saints are supposed to be covered in Night Music, I believe. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 16:18:34 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Religion in In Nomine >>>Muslims not Moslems. Islam was not founded by Gabriel but revealed through him. Laurence PERSONALLY protects Christianity; i.e.' it is not his job, he does it because he wants to as a "collateral duty".<<< One of In Nomine's premises is (as I understand it) that NO human religion is the "True Religion"; they are all reflections of a divine truth that mere mortals cannot hope to really get right. Some Archangels support one religion or another for personal and/or political reasons, but they are not really any more infallible than the mortals they are influencing. In other words, In Nomine's universe is not a Muslim universe any more than it is a Christian universe. I don't think the adherents of any religion can reasonably expect that In Nomine's cosmology isn't going to "step on their toes" in places. - -David (dreading the possibility of religious debates here) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 16:33:16 -0400 (EDT) From: The Quixotic Ninja Subject: Re: IN> Where Angels Come From John Karakash wrote: > It's canon that human souls and angelic souls are > essentially different. One cannot become the other, so anyone > that is human can't become an angel. While we're on the subject of different types of souls... Has a canon decision been made regarding the nature of the remaining pagan gods? That is, are they essentially the same type of being as an Archangel (or regular angel), do they share characteristics with Yahweh, or are they something entirely different? I'd happily just hush up and wait for _The Marches_ to come out, but I may get wrangled into running a few sessions before then, and a friend of mine has this idea for a pagan god character who's undergone something of a lifestyle change (so to speak). Before I cave in and let her do it, I'm trying to find out what's *possible*... - -- John Trussell truss@gweep.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 17:00:21 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Arabic >>>>I was under the impression that the Arabic language did not include vowels in the written form of the language. In this case, I would imagine the choice of vowels in the transliteration to English wouldn't matter. I am no scholar on Islam, nor do I speak Arabic, so I defer to the expertise of others on this matter... Can someone confirm/correct me on this?<<< There isn't really a "standard" system of transcribing Arabic that is accepted throughout the English-speaking world...hence the fact that you can find about a dozen different spellings of Moamr Qaddafi's name, depending on which newspaper you consult. "Al-Salaam alaikum" would be the most direct transliteration. But the first "l" is written but not pronounced, hence dragon's "As Salamu Alaikum", which is a more phonological transcription. (Though I was also puzzled by the final vowel, which is neither spoken nor written, except perhaps in Quranic Arabic.) - -David (more than you ever wanted to know about Arabic) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 07:10:38 +1100 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> Some Fiction Resources... Jason Durall wrote: > > After going through my bookshelves, I thought I'd list a bunch of books > relating to angels which might be good reference material or source for > adventure/campaign ideas: > > Resurrection Man, by Sean Stewart- Haven't read this one yet, but according > to the back cover copy, it concerns a young man who discovers that he's > actually an angel raised on Earth. Good book - I recommend Sean Stewart's work, he had a lovely turn of phrase - but not particularly IN-related. > > The Warhound and the World's Pain, by Micheal Moorcock- Lucifer, cast from > Heaven, seeks to return and gain the ear of God, and enlists a veteran > mercenary on a quest through war-torn post-Dark Ages Europe to find the Holy > Grail. Wonderful book - one of Moorcock's best, and a good example of wandering through the Ethereal Realms. Still not overly IN. Oh, while I'm commenting - I just read Gary Kilworth's 'Angel'. Not recommended - very mediocre writing style and far too cliched in places - - but has some nice comments on angels ands a really nice description of Falling. > The CD "When I Was a Boy," by Jane Siberry (lighter alternative music, with > songs titled "The Gospel of Darkness," "Calling All Angels," "An Angel > Stepped Down," "Temple," and others in that vein). Hmmm... didn't like it, myself, but then 'light' stuff rarely appeals to me... now Marylin Manson would be prime stuff for most demon Players to check out... - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia I'll have the veal, a lovely meal That's how I feel - May I use your skull for a bowl? TOM WAITS, "The Black Rider" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 97 15:32:47 PDT (2232Z) From: "Brion K. Lienhart" Subject: Re: IN>Archangel of Death >From: Manuel Rivera > Yeah, we need a *good* angel of death. ESPECIALLY if she looks like a >certain cute goth chick... Who? Susan Death? She was only the angel of death for a little while, then she gave the job back to her grandfather. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 18:33:14 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Where Angels Come From On May 8, 4:33pm, The Quixotic Ninja wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> Where Angels Come From > John Karakash wrote: > > It's canon that human souls and angelic souls are > > essentially different. One cannot become the other, so anyone > > that is human can't become an angel. > > While we're on the subject of different types of souls... > > Has a canon decision been made regarding the nature of the remaining pagan > gods? That is, are they essentially the same type of being as an Archangel > (or regular angel), do they share characteristics with Yahweh, or are they > something entirely different? > > I'd happily just hush up and wait for _The Marches_ to come out, but I may > get wrangled into running a few sessions before then, and a friend of mine > has this idea for a pagan god character who's undergone something of a > lifestyle change (so to speak). Before I cave in and let her do it, I'm > trying to find out what's *possible*... The _angelic_ view of most of these 'gods' (small 'g') is that they are trumped up spirits that leech Essence out of their believers to gain power. Their view of things can be quite different! ;) If your friend wants to play a 'god', let him use the regular rules, make sure that he has some way of getting between the Marches and the earth (unless he wants to be stuck on earth). Since he won't have the power your average angel does, you'll just have to wing it, there. He'll probably have the ability to let people 'worship' him in order to gain more essence. Throw on a special power or two (rather than a resonance) and some Songs and you have a decent low-level god. If he has a Superior (for example, he is part of a pantheon), they you might give him an Attunement equivalent. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 09:51:11 GMT+10 From: "Leathal Weapon" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: Re: IN> Religion in In Nomine In reply to: > In other words, In Nomine's universe is not a Muslim universe any more than > it is a Christian universe. I don't think the adherents of any religion can > reasonably expect that In Nomine's cosmology isn't going to "step on their > toes" in places. The only absolute in IN religion is that it is monotheistic, ie. there is ONE God. Of course, a lot of the 'minor deities' trapped in the Marches would argue with that. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 16:53:29 -0600 From: Bremstrahlung X Subject: IN> IN NOMINE: re: Sex and the single celestial Salutations Personally I'm going to make my players vessel's be fertile, If only that it suggests infinitely more plots than non-fertile bodies (An Angel/Demon just sleeping around for the hell of it: That's about it). With fertile vessels...well, the possibilities people! BSX ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 19:42:31 -0400 (EDT) From: gibsonc@nku.edu Subject: [none] when does night music come out? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 17:40:02 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Demons Smoking... Or angels, for that matter... Doesn't that generate minor disturbance? I mean, they're destroying a corporeal object... Just because it's one that's *meant* to be destroyed wouldn't matter, right? And even burning a lighter ought to make tiny noise... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 17:15:08 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Vessels, sex, and children At 8:19 PM -0400 5/7/97, gibsonc@nku.edu wrote: >can celestials and/or remnants get drunk? be sedated? etc? Yes. Canon on the remnant, certainly (p. 31, boxed text), and I would extrapolate from that that celestials can get drunk (though the *speed* of that might depend on their Body Hits, which may exceed Normal Human!), and from there, that they can be sedated or otherwise drugged from things they breathe or injest. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 17:09:30 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal Tethers At 1:10 AM -0400 5/8/97, Moriah - Steve Jackson Games wrote: >>Ethereal Tethers? (And what about Corporeal tethers?) > > Connections from the Corporeal Realm to the Marches. They'll be detailed >in "The Marches". They work just like Celestial Tethers. They used to be >much more common before Uriel's purge. Now there are just a few left to >B&B's realms and a few well hidden ones from Pagan shrines to the Far Marches. I was just wondering if that was what they were. They were apparently in an earlier draft... >Moriah worthy nemesis, and your ignorance will be your downfall! BWAHAHAHAHA!> (More than I think? Oh, no -- I know that there are areas where my reach exceeds my grasp. You underestimate my ability to work on shakey ground, though. ) (And I'm a worthy nemesis?) (Interesting.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 17:12:45 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Resistance Rolls. At 1:18 AM -0500 5/8/97, Scott Turnbull wrote: > Just wondering about the mechanics of some resistance rolls for >songs. Some song state that the target of a song may make a particular >resistance roll. However when a song states something like 'Celestials >may add their celestial forces to an intelligence roll' does this mean >that ONLY celestials can resist, or that anyone can try to resist, but >only celestials get the CF's added? Anyone can resist, and Celestials get their CF added. IMO. > Also, when a resistance roll is made for the effects of a song, does >the check digit or the resistance roll subtract from the check digit of >the song performers roll or does any successful resistance completely >negate a songs effects? It depends on the description. I think that if it says, "Will roll will negate," it means that -- any Will roll frees the target from the effects. If it says "contest," then I *believe* it's the higher CD that wins (or the defender, if a tie?). - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 19:45:22, -0500 From: ZFWZ53B@prodigy.com (MR DON W BLAGG) Subject: IN> various in-nomine questions I have several questions about the in-nomine rules 1) Actions within a round seem to be resolved simultaneously however they are declared from higher stat down which seems to put the people with higher stats at a disadvantage. Is this the way it works? 2) When a kyriotate of David maifests his stone vessel how many force points does he lose against his possesion total? Half of us say 3 which is the amount he would lose to celestially manifest and the other half says the level of the vessel. 3) Does fighting skill add onto STR+CORP or does it just replace Corporeal Forces? 4) Do any rules exist for attacking multiple targets in one round. For instance an angel with Song of Ethereal Form/6 up aims his M-16 at a car full of demons at a stop light. When he unleashes his attack he wants to hit all the demons in a spray of gunfire. I let him do it but using the lower power number for the effect and had him roll separately against each target. Since both the demons and the angel were PC's I would appreciate a clarification of the rules. 5) Can Olafim add their check digit to actions like driving? 6) If a kyriotate with Str 9 Corp 4 enters a cat (normally Corp 1 so I assume Vessel 1 and assume Str 1) its Body increases from 2 to 45. If he leaves the Body after it has taken 30 hits does the cat die or are the cat's 2 body the last to go? I understand the either way the angel gets dissonance because of the state he left the body. 7) The rules are pretty specific about whether you lose your role or not when you die. Do you lose the points you spent on your vessel when you die? 8) Can a Malakim of Micheal use Song of Celestial Movement to appear where danger is about to happen even if he's never been there? 9) Under NominousCorpus/Wings the movement rate is given as just Agility per round. This gives a typical angel with AGI 6 the awesome flying speed of 2.5 mph. Hope they don't have to race a turtle. What are the real rules? 10) Celestials get a free skill when they buy roles in how to be a whatever. Do soldiers get a free knowledge skill based on how many points in status? 11) It's possible to have human servants with Forces totalling 7 but it is only possible to play human soldiers with Forces of 6. This confuses me since if it was a game balance problem the servants would not be allowed. Could you enlighten me as to the reasons this was decided? (Note: Somebody wants to play Mulder and Scully and they work alot better with 7) Well thats the extent of my questions. My congradulations to the developers of this game it was a blast to play. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 20:17:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Paul F. Strack" Subject: Re: IN> PBEM Hmm. I my regret this but ... I'd be willing to run a PBEM game. I've done it before (although its been a while). The sort of PBEM game has been more an excersize in shared creative writing than a typical RPG. Still, if enough people are interested, I'd be happy to do it. Just give me a few days to put together some rules and background info. If people aren't interested in that sort of game, or somebody else is more gung-ho than I am, I'd be happy to play as well. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 00:31:07 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> Some Fiction Resources... On Thu, 8 May 1997 10:23:28 -0500 (CDT), Shadowcat wrote: >Could you please post the ISBN numers for these books? If you have web access, you might want to be aware of the amazon.com online book store. Even if you don't want to buy from them, you can look up most any book in print in their online catalog. I've never bought anything from them, but customers seem satisfied. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 00:31:02 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> the afterlife as mosh pit... On Thu, 08 May 1997 08:54:50 -0500, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >But, as I remarked in a recent post, many religions have some >equivalent or analog to Original Sin. In Buddhism, there's >attachment and bad karma. Hinduism also uses the concept of >bad karma. Judaism has the concept of a "will to evil" and a >"will to good" battling in every human heart. Etc. Are those really the same, though? Original Sin holds that everyone born bears the burden of Original Sin, even if they have never sinned themselves. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 00:31:05 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> Confusion in In Nomine... On Thu, 8 May 1997 09:09:31 -0400, "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" wrote: >> Should the Song of Charm be taken as purely characteristics lowering or >> should it have implicit effects on the character? ... > GM's call on this, though I would write the categories a >bit different. Thanks. That settles the basic issue of implicit effects. >> After all, if the characteristic is lowered to one, it's an automatic >> failure, unless essence is spent. > > Don't forget that most normal activities don't require a roll >at all and that the minimum level for a skill is '1' for a total >minimum of '2' on any known skill. Let's suppose a PC has his Will lowered to one. He's facing a bunch of pretty scary enemy celestials. A normal person with a Will of 2-4 might have to make something like a GURPS fright check in such a situation to avoid freezing or running away. It seems to me the PCs should be hindered in some way by having their Will dropped into the gutter. How about this: everyone has an implicit skill Doing Stuff/6. Only when something extraordinary happens do you actually roll this. Comments, anyone? >> While someone is stunned, does he still resist further attacks with Will >> rolls? ... > Essence for Will rolls is still acceptable. The Will roll >to defend is not an 'action', per se, nor is spending the Essence >to enhance a roll. So when you're stunned, you're still not unconscious. Ok. That might be an item that should be different for mundanes. > I'd say that 'X' portion of the >Kyriotate's Forces are unavailable til the stun goes away (imagine >that some paralyzed one of your arms... the rest of your >body will still function). The rest >of the angel goes merrily about its business. The Impudite would >get the full amount that the Kyriotate owned. (That's _some_ >honkin' squirrel!) ;) Cool. Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 15:27:18 EST From: temujin09@juno.com (Nathaniel P Eliot) Subject: Re: IN> Islam, Christianity, and Angels of Faith Earl Wajenberg writes: >Nathaniel P Eliot wrote: >> Out of curiousity, does anybody care to guess the >> official wordbound angel of Christianity, Islam, and/or Judiasm? >> IIRC, Khalid has a tie to Islam, but I think his Word is more >> encompassing than Islam. > >I'm not sure what you mean by "official," but in the book of Daniel, >Gabriel specifically describes Michael as the guardian of Israel, >and Christianity has a long tradition of regarding Michael as the >protector of the Church. I mean Official. I am looking for, if they exist, the angels that have Islam, Christianity, and Judiasm as their Words. ============================================================= | | | /\ | | Nathaniel Eliot | Chaos, Discord, and the | / \ | | temujin09@juno.com | Illuminated Way | / <> \ | | | | /______\ | ============================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 00:30:58 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: IN> Muslims not Moslems On Thu, 08 May 97 11:29:12 EDT, "Iota (Tom Wenisch)" wrote: >> Muslims not Moslems. Islam was not founded by Gabriel but revealed > I was under the impression that the Arabic language did not include vowels >in the written form of the language. In this case, I would imagine the choice >of vowels in the transliteration to English wouldn't matter. I am no scholar >on Islam, nor do I speak Arabic, so I defer to the expertise of others on this >matter... Can someone confirm/correct me on this? My sources say that some vowels are indicated by letters, some diacritical marks are placed adjacent letters to designate vowels, and some vowels are implied. But it doesn't really matter. The critical point is that Arabic doesn't use the Roman alphabet, nor is it closely related to the Roman alphabet as the Greek and Cyrillic (Russian) alphabets are. That means that some translation/transliteration must be done from the Arabic alphabet to the Roman alphabet. Of course, the purpose of the transliteration is to allow people used to a Roman alphabet to approximate the sound of a word in a non-Roman alphabet. But this is always an approximation, and not always a good one. One problem is that the transliteration convention may be written by someone who doesn't pronounce the Roman alphabet as you do. For example, "good evening" in Japanese is usually written "konban wa". However, the orginal transliteration was done by Portugese, so "kon-" shouldn't be pronounced "kon," but "kohn"--usually. In this specific case, it's actually pronounced more closely to "kohm," like the English word "comb," even though the symbol used in Japanese is the one for the sound, "kohn." (A similar problem occurs in Arabic where a name, "al-N--" is pronounced, "an-N--", though it isn't transliterated that way.) And this still doesn't reflect syllable accents which can't really be show in any standard English way. To partly address this, various other Japanese transliterations are used. To show how insidious these problems can be, consider the song whose key line is usually written in the US as, "You say tomayto, I say tomahto," or "You say tomato, I say tomahto." In Australia, they pronounce English a little differently and I've seen the line written, "You say tomato, I say tomayto." So those outside the US may find the preceding paragraph useless for pronouncing Japanese. As languages and their dominance changes, transliteration customs change: a transliteration originally done with Italian pronounciations of the Roman alphabet might be redone to US pronounciations. You may recall the change in Chinese transliteration from Peking to Beijing--it used to be Peiping. Finally returning to Moslem and Muslim, they are the same word, transliterated differently. Moslem was the old usual transliteration; Muslim is the new. I don't think people should take offense because someone uses the old transliteration, but we should all try to use Muslim, just as we try to use Beijing instead of Peking. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 21:00:56 -0700 From: "Manuel Rivera" Subject: Re: IN>Archangel of Death Who's Susan Death? I was reffering to Gaiman's Death. Mick > Who? Susan Death? She was only the angel of death for a little while, then she > gave the job back to her grandfather. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 21:22:47 -0400 (EDT) From: The Quixotic Ninja Subject: Re: IN> Where Angels Come From > John Karakash wrote: > > Their view of things can be quite different! ;) If your > friend wants to play a 'god', let him use the regular rules, make > sure that he has some way of getting between the Marches and > the earth (unless he wants to be stuck on earth). Since he > won't have the power your average angel does, you'll just have > to wing it, there. He'll probably have the ability to let people > 'worship' him in order to gain more essence. Throw on a special > power or two (rather than a resonance) and some Songs and you have > a decent low-level god. If he has a Superior (for example, he > is part of a pantheon), they you might give him an Attunement > equivalent. Ok -- that's good information to have. Given the crowd I'm working with, all of whom seem to love playing characters "on the fringe" of any system (not exclusively, mind you, but occasionally), I'm sure that'll come up. ;) The character that Anne (there, she's not "an unnamed friend" anymore :) is lobbying for is in a slightly different situation, but given what you said, I think it's doable -- in terms of *mechanics*, at least. For your amusement (or bemusement, as the case may be), here are the specifics: She wants to run the Celtic goddess Rhiannon -- provided that she isn't written up or "written off" (as in "perished") in the official canon -- as a reluctant Servitor of Gabriel. When she first suggested this, I gave her one of those "oh, sure, make it easy on the new GM" facial expressions, and insisted that she write up a character history more detailed than most biographies before I even *considered* it. The result (so far) is a three-page flashback to ~713AD which outlines a scenario through which the two forged a temporary (but indefinite-length) arrangement. The unifying forces seem to be a mutual hatred for Uriel, a mutual devotion to the Word of Fire, the saving of one of Gabriel's Servitors, and Rhiannon's willingness to swallow her pride (and cease all outward claims of being a "goddess," at least for the duration of the arrangement) in exchange for a somewhat nebulous promise of assistance should the lives of her remaining family in the Far Marches be jeopardized. It's dancing on the very edge of what I consider workable, but she's being creative enough (and entertaining enough) in her efforts to persuade me that I want to reward her by finding a way to work it all in. And then, when I'm finished with that, there's Heather's proposed Bright Lilim to deal with... 8) - -- John Trussell truss@gweep.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 21:09:39 EST From: temujin09@juno.com (Nathaniel P Eliot) Subject: IN> In Nomine Mood Music >> The CD "When I Was a Boy," by Jane Siberry (lighter alternative >> music, with songs titled "The Gospel of Darkness," "Calling All >> Angels," "An Angel Stepped Down," "Temple," and others in that >> vein). > > Hmmm... didn't like it, myself, but then 'light' stuff rarely >appeals to me... now Marylin Manson would be prime stuff for most >demon Players to check out... Definately a good point, that, which simply adds to my conviction that if the universe works like it does in In Nomine, I'm on the first train for hell...;-) For a slightly heavier angelic tone, Danzig did a CD with very creepy but beautiful symphonic music (which, I gathered from the case and the ex-girlfriend who showed me, isn't his normal fare). I can't remember the name of it, unfortunately. Nine Inch Nails works really well for angels teetering on the edge of Falling, or newly Fallen. In fact, for a creepy mood, the Lost Highway soundtrack (produced by Trent Reznor, and with tracks from NIN, Reznor, Manson, and Smashing Pumpkins) has a large amount of music to fit the bill. It's got some interesting German rock tracks tucked in the back, too... Personally, though, I'd say some good blues, like Kenny Wayne Shephard, Sonny Landreth, or the Dave Matthews Band, would be an interesting fit. ============================================================= | | | /\ | | Nathaniel Eliot | Chaos, Discord, and the | / \ | | temujin09@juno.com | Illuminated Way | / <> \ | | | | /______\ | ============================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 22:13:21 EST From: temujin09@juno.com (Nathaniel P Eliot) Subject: Re: IN> Demons Smoking... Elizabeth McCoy writes: >Or angels, for that matter... Doesn't that generate minor >disturbance? I mean, they're destroying a corporeal object... >Just because it's one that's *meant* to be destroyed wouldn't >matter, right? And even burning a lighter ought to make tiny >noise... I don't think so - the example of masking disturbance with a role seems to indicate that a fairly normal action by a vessel, such as smoking a cigarette or killing a person in the line of duty (for a PI) generate little or no disturbance. Given the tiny amount of disturbance the action would cause even if the vessel had no harmonic reason to be doing what they were, I don't think regular human actions performed by human vessels would cause disturbance. ============================================================= | | | /\ | | Nathaniel Eliot | Chaos, Discord, and the | / \ | | temujin09@juno.com | Illuminated Way | / <> \ | | | | /______\ | ============================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 12:35:22 GMT+10 From: "Leathal Weapon" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: Re: IN> Where Angels Come From In reply to: He'll probably have the ability to let people > 'worship' him in order to gain more essence. Throw on a special > power or two (rather than a resonance) and some Songs and you have > a decent low-level god. If he has a Superior (for example, he > is part of a pantheon), they you might give him an Attunement > equivalent. While we're on the subject, the story behind my next game is that there is a LOT of 'noise' coming from a small town in Australia. The PCs have been sent to find out what's causing it and decide what to do about it (many other celestials on both sides have been given the same assignment). What is happening is that an aboriginal 'god' (not true in the strictest sense of the word, more of a dreamtime remnant) who has been hidden in the Marches has found a few native old time believers who have in turn 'converted' younger worshippers (both native and caucasian) to worshipping this creature (a Bunyip). The Bunyip is encouraging his worship and is gathering the Essence generated from it in order to build himself a new Corporeal vessel and again walk the Earth. How the players deal with this when they discover what is going on is up to them. The Bunyip is quite weak at the moment, but with more worshippers following it every day, it is rapidly growing in power. This idea was the first one I had for an IN game, but I've had to delay it slightly in order to introduce the PCs to the IN world first before throwing them concepts that are going to confuse them. | > | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | > | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | > | In this country we tax success most of all." | > \___________________________________________________/ > Just a thought... Leathal Weapon. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 11:34:24 +0930 From: "Damian O'Dea" Subject: Re: IN> Demons Smoking... Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > Or angels, for that matter... Doesn't that generate minor > disturbance? I mean, they're destroying a corporeal object... > Just because it's one that's *meant* to be destroyed wouldn't > matter, right? And even burning a lighter ought to make tiny > noise... Probably about as much as the background hiss/pop from a record player; there's so much else going on in the Symphony, such as Angels and Demons making exceedingly loud clashes, the occasional human belting a gong as he or she burns off all their Essence... with all that racket going on, who can hear the tiniest sounds? Of course, if you could orchestrate (neat; I like this word here ;p) a perfect silence in the Symphony (ie. no disturbances, not no sound,) and a demon lights a cig. it would probably make such a noticable difference that _everyone_ would hear it. The trick would be getting everyone to shut up long enough to do this ;p ODie... - -- === Damian O'Dea Damian.ODea@dsto.defence.gov.au === === Information Management & Fusion Group ph:(08) 259 5839 === === Information Technology Division fx:(08) 259 5619 === === DSTO - Salisbury, P. O. Box 1500, Salisbury, Adelaide, SA 5108 === ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 20:26:56 -0700 From: Roger Carbol Subject: Re: IN> Demons Smoking... Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > Or angels, for that matter... Doesn't that generate minor > disturbance? I mean, they're destroying a corporeal object... > Just because it's one that's *meant* to be destroyed wouldn't > matter, right? And even burning a lighter ought to make tiny > noise... Well, we start to get into the subjective realm on just what it means to destroy or create something. After all, a demon might claim he was destroying a cigarette, whilst an angel might claim she was creating some ashes. Roger Carbol .. rog@col.ca .. conservation of dissonance ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #159 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.