From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat May 10 09:15:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA11414 for ; Sat, 10 May 1997 09:15:50 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA14680 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 10 May 1997 08:49:09 -0500 Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 08:49:09 -0500 Message-Id: <199705101349.IAA14680@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #162 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, May 10 1997 Volume 01 : Number 162 In this digest: Re: IN> In Nomine Mood & Re: IN> Angel of X Religion Re: IN> In Nomine Mood & Re: IN> List FAQ revised Re: IN> PBEM Re: IN> In Nomine Mood & Re: IN> Demons Smoking... Re: IN>Archangel of Death Re: Re[2]: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #155 IN> Important: PBEM Game Closing Re: IN> PBEM Re: New Angels (Re: Laurence (Re: IN> 5 elephants, er elements... Re: IN> In Nomine Mood Music Re: IN> various in-nomine questions Re: IN> In Nomine Mood Music Re: IN> In Nomine Mood Music Re: IN> Where Angels Come From Re: IN> In Nomine Mood & Re: IN> List FAQ revised Re: IN> Angel of X Religion Re: IN> Demons Smoking... Re: IN> IN NOMINE List FAQ v0.1 Re: Re[2]: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #155 IN> Disturbing the Symphony Re: IN> Where Angels Come From Re: New Angels (Re: Laurence (Re: IN> 5 elephants, er elements... Re: IN> In Nomine Mood Music Re: IN> various in-nomine questions Re: IN> List FAQ revised Re: IN> In Nomine Mood Music Re: IN> Vessels, sex, and children Re: IN> In Nomine Mood & Re: IN> the afterlife as mosh pit... Re: IN> In Nomine Mood & Re: IN> In Nomine Mood Music IN> Melville's Angels ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 15:19:10 EST From: temujin09@juno.com (Nathaniel P Eliot) Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Mood & Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM> writes: >>John K.: >> Hmmmm... Anyone want to volunteer for a project? A lot >>of song suggestions have come by. It'd be nice if someone came >>up with a _neat_ list of them to put on the webpage. The songs >>must be in some standard format with at least the song and the >>group that performs it. If you want to go whole hog and get the >>album it's on, that would be cool. Songs should be grouped >>alphabetically by performer and then alphabetically by song >>title. If you are completely nuts you can also write a short >>paragraph about each concerning its suitability for In Nomine. > >Full-bore, God-on-wheels nuts would be including a digitized sample >(certainly nothing lengthy that would break fair use exception to >copyright) just as a taste of the kind of music it is. I can get samples of the music off the Lost Highway soundtrack in wav format - I have already sampled the chorus to Perfect Drug, and the intro to Something Wicked This Way Comes. I may also be able to sample off of Danzig's Black Aria, if my ex is feeling nice enough to let me borrow it. ============================================================= | | | /\ | | Nathaniel Eliot | Chaos, Discord, and the | / \ | | temujin09@juno.com | Illuminated Way | / <> \ | | | | /______\ | ============================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 14:58:37 EST From: temujin09@juno.com (Nathaniel P Eliot) Subject: Re: IN> Angel of X Religion Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM> writes: >>I mean Official. I am looking for, if they exist, the angels that >>have Islam, Christianity, and Judiasm as their Words. > >They don't exist, at least, not that we've revealed. Is that clear >enough? Works for me. I may make my own, just because it feels better and provides more avenues for politicing. > Khalid is certainly a patron of Islam, but his Word is Faith. What I was thinking (applies to the others you gave, too) is that the angel of Islam might be a Wordbound servant of Khalid. Though since Khalid, as the angel of Faith, would also have providence over any religeon (at least, as far as his word extends) his interest in Islam could lead to some interesting politicing. > As a general rule, and this applies to *a lot* of different posts >about who the Angel of X is... Not everything has a Word-bound >Angel! Some places, things, concepts, feelings, virtues, etc... get >along just fine without a Word-bound angel promoting it. Hmm - I'd agree with you in general (I can't see an angel of Stale Bong Water, except is the case of some really vindictive Seraphim on the council). But I see those three religeons in particular to have enough importance to be granted a wordbound. Of course, the politics surrounding that wordbound would be nasty indeed... ============================================================= | | | /\ | | Nathaniel Eliot | Chaos, Discord, and the | / \ | | temujin09@juno.com | Illuminated Way | / <> \ | | | | /______\ | ============================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 15:58:02 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Mood & On May 9, 11:32am, Moriah - Steve Jackson Games wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Mood & > >John K.: > > Hmmmm... Anyone want to volunteer for a project? A lot > >of song suggestions have come by. It'd be nice if someone came > >up with a _neat_ list of them to put on the webpage. The songs > >must be in some standard format with at least the song and the > >group that performs it. If you want to go whole hog and get the > >album it's on, that would be cool. Songs should be grouped > >alphabetically by performer and then alphabetically by song > >title. If you are completely nuts you can also write a short > >paragraph about each concerning its suitability for In Nomine. > > Full-bore, God-on-wheels nuts would be including a digitized sample > (certainly nothing lengthy that would break fair use exception to copyright) > just as a taste of the kind of music it is. Shhhh! I'm trying to gentle them into the rougher stuff a little at a time. ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 May 97 16:37 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> List FAQ revised >>>Who's who on the List? >> >>No mention of Archangel Beth???? > > I was thinking of Beth and Paul and the other authors on the list when I >mentioned that one should go to the In Nomine site and follow the links. >As Super(ior) as Beth is, she's not an *official* presence on the list, and >shouldn't get the grief... um... 'workload' that the official Reps get. ;) Actually I thought she was the *official* SJGames Archivist. (She's listed on the netreps page: http://www.sjgames.com/general/netreps.html) - ---Walter (Seraph of Annoying Little Details) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 16:42:43 -0400 From: Tim Seiger Subject: Re: IN> PBEM I haven't had much experience with PBEM's. I'm lurking on an IOU PBEM now. But I too would be greatly interested in either playing in one, or perhaps assisting someone who has more experience in running one. Either way, I'm interested. - -Tim - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------- The opinions expressed above are not necessarily affiliated with Digital in any way. I am an employee, not a spokesperson. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 16:12:30 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jared P. Buntain" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Mood & > > Full-bore, God-on-wheels nuts would be including a digitized sample > > (certainly nothing lengthy that would break fair use exception to copyright) > > just as a taste of the kind of music it is. > > Shhhh! I'm trying to gentle them into the rougher stuff > a little at a time. ;) Well, Since Ive started gathering digitized samples, I figure its to late to back off now. For those people who suggested stuff that might not be readily available (ie The Original Musical Score to the Crow, Kyrie, etc) or anyone who feels like making my life easier, feel free to mail be a short but sweet sample. I can take any size (under 1 Gig, but if its that big, your violating copyright...) and any format but the really crazy propriatary ones (.wav would be prefered). BinHex, Uuencode, Base64, go nuts, Im not pickey :) Ill post when I get the page ready for review, and maybe the kind McCoy can give it a home when people are satisfied. Jared Buntain chandley@nwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 14:03:10 -0700 (MST) From: shadocat@primenet.com (Jeff Miller) Subject: Re: IN> Demons Smoking... Just my opinion on the matter.... >1) Too little damage done to get above 'background noise' >2) Smoking a cigarette is 'using it' not 'damaging it' > > This difference becomes imporant when you get to >larger things. For example what about a model town that >was built by the army to test a new weapon? Will noise be >created when a Celestial blows it up? Yes unless the Celestial pushes the button for the weapon that's supposed to blow it up. Even then, I would assign some noise unless he does it at the time it was scheduled to blow up. Or how about the >breakaway glass in front of a fire extinguisher? Is it >'noisy' to break it when that is obviously the purpose of >the glass? I'd say it depends on the intent of the Celestial. If the Celestial breaks it to get at the fire extinguisher then no noise. If, OTOH, the breakage is accidental/incidental then it would. If it's the case that there _is_ an undetectable >amount of noise cause by smoking the cigarette, would a >roomful of smoking demons be enough to get a point of noise >and allow a chance for someone to 'hear' it? And so on... > I'd say no. It follows the intent for which the cigarettes were made. -- Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 17:47:52 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN>Archangel of Death At 3:32 PM +0000 5/8/97, Brion K. Lienhart wrote: >>From: Manuel Rivera >> Yeah, we need a *good* angel of death. ESPECIALLY if she looks like a >>certain cute goth chick... > >Who? Susan Death? She was only the angel of death for a little while, then she >gave the job back to her grandfather. I'm not sure she was the *angel* of death -- I think she was just DEATH. Now there's a scary thought -- In Nomine Discworld. What *would* the Discworld Pantheon think? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 19:55:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Cymrys@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #155 In a message dated 8.5.97 05:25:51, you write: (snip) << If I used the Waco insident as a reference for :Christianity I'm sure I'd regret it. I must also include that I am glad :so far that no one has generalized Muslims as terrorists. >> Generalisations can be dangerous, and I'm also glad to see that they've been avoided. I think you'll find the reason there are few posts on the other religions is down to the fact that In Nomine is a game that would, after all, primarily attract those with a background in standard Western Christian beliefs (Catholicism, Protestantism, etc). Of course, I make myself a liar because I belong to the Serbian Orthodox church, but there ye go... Malakite of War Cymrys "Laugh and the world laughs with you; prank a Malakite and yer on yer own..." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 19:57:11 -0400 (EDT) From: "Paul F. Strack" Subject: IN> Important: PBEM Game Closing Good Grief :) If I had any idea that so many people would be interested in this, I would have tried to come up with a fairer format for submitting characters. I already have 16 (!) potential players. Everybody that I have a message of interest from so far is in. I'll compile and post a list in the near future, as well as sending each of you a copy of the rules. I must apologize to everyone else, though. This is already a *huge* number of players, so I can't take any more. It's possible that some of the players will drop out once they read the rules and learn how I want to play. If that drops the number back below a dozen, I may accept more players. If that is the case, I will give priority to those people who express an interest within the next 24 hours, i.e. by Saturday evening. I have to emphasize, though, that I'm not taking any more players at the moment; I'm only putting people on a waiting list. BUT, one thing that I am thinking of doing - as a part of the PBEM game - is setting up an "in character" list for people to post too, along the lines of the sort of thing that goes on in the White Wolf newsgroups. When I do this, there will be no limit to the number of players on that list, as Celestial drift in and out all the time. This list will be almost completely free-form, more of a conversational forum. So, when (if?) I get that set up, I'll let people know, so I don't leave too many people out in the cold. Paul Strack | Madness takes its toll. pfstrack@math.unc.edu | Please have exact change. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ World of Darkness Page - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/wod.html In Nomine Page: INC2 - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/innom/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 20:08:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Cymrys@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> PBEM In a message dated 8.5.97 22:13:45, you write: << Come summer, I'd love to join. An Elohim of Jean (Spock, anyone?), a Malakim of War or maybe Sword >> Hands off the Malakite of War slot, bub... Malakite of War Cymrys "Laugh and the world laughs with you. Prank a Malakite, and yer on yer own..." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 20:07:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Cymrys@aol.com Subject: Re: New Angels (Re: Laurence (Re: IN> 5 elephants, er elements... In a message dated 8.5.97 16:48:09, you write: << I don't know very much at all about Brigid as a Christian Saint. >> Originally the patron of poets and battle, and linked to fire (hmm), she was adopted as a protector for womankind during the conversion of pagan Ireland in the mid first millenium. Cymrys ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 20:14:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Cymrys@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Mood Music Come on, let's face it: 'The Crow' Soundtrack (and BTW, I heartily recommend the original graphioc novel as a great mood source for dark IN), 'Seventeen Seconds' (did I get that right?) from the Cure and anything by The Damned or The Cult are must-haves for darker IN... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 20:19:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Cymrys@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> various in-nomine questions In a message dated 9.5.97 12:29:56, you write: << However, I've not found this to be a good way to resolve rounds/combat and go with a round initiative/action system where declarations are made slowest to fastest charters, then resolved fastest to slowest. Several systems use this type of system, the only one I can recall off hand is Star Wars so you could ask players of that game if it works for them. >> It's also done in several wargames, where good tactical skills are represented by seeing what your opponent does first, tyhen sorting your action out first. I actually like this, and it works well ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 10:52:00 +1100 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Mood Music Kurt White wrote: > > Also, I'd just like to point out Front 242 (Evil Off), Front Line Assembly > (esp. Millennium and Tactical Neural Implant) and Mr Bungle (Disco Volante) > for great Diabolical tunes. > Ummm... I don't think FLA or Mr Bungle are that diabolic.... In fact, Mr Bungle's chaotic, mix-it-up style could be great for Kyriotates, and some of FLA's faster stuff (Millenium, Hardwired) would be relaxation stuff for Ofanim... A thought - Mercurians and Impudites are the celestials most likely to be into modern human music, and they're likely to have all sorts of tastes. It's the other celestials who are easier to stereotype with this sort of stuff... - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia I'll have the veal, a lovely meal That's how I feel - May I use your skull for a bowl? TOM WAITS, "The Black Rider" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 18:22:26 +1100 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Mood Music Nathaniel P Eliot wrote: > > >> The CD "When I Was a Boy," by Jane Siberry (lighter alternative > >> music, with songs titled "The Gospel of Darkness," "Calling All > >> Angels," "An Angel Stepped Down," "Temple," and others in that > >> vein). > > > > Hmmm... didn't like it, myself, but then 'light' stuff rarely > >appeals to me... now Marylin Manson would be prime stuff for most > >demon Players to check out... > > Definately a good point, that, which simply adds to my conviction > that if the universe works like it does in In Nomine, I'm on the > first train for hell...;-) > My problem is that I have a Diabolic taste in music, but I'm only interested in playing and GMing IN with Angels... > Nine Inch Nails works really well for angels teetering on the > edge of Falling, or newly Fallen. In fact, for a creepy mood, > the Lost Highway soundtrack (produced by Trent Reznor, and with > tracks from NIN, Reznor, Manson, and Smashing Pumpkins) has a > large amount of music to fit the bill. It's got some interesting > German rock tracks tucked in the back, too... Lost Highway is a definitely worthwhile album to check out. As for using NIN - man, I've got every album... I need suggestions of stuff I haven't heard... - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia I'll have the veal, a lovely meal That's how I feel - May I use your skull for a bowl? TOM WAITS, "The Black Rider" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 18:50:34 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Where Angels Come From At 9:22 PM -0400 5/8/97, The Quixotic Ninja wrote: [...] >And then, when I'm finished with that, there's Heather's proposed Bright >Lilim to deal with... 8) Checked out the Bright Lilim attunements yet? http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles and it ought to be somewhere around there... (It got filed before I took it over, so I don't have as good a "feel" for where it would be. Probably in Rules Modifications, though I may move it out of there to my "Tips, Theories," etc. Section. Maybe not.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 19:28:42 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Mood & At 4:12 PM -0500 5/9/97, Jared P. Buntain wrote: >> > Full-bore, God-on-wheels nuts would be including a digitized sample [...] > > Ill post when I get the page ready for review, and maybe the kind >McCoy can give it a home when people are satisfied. At a minimum, a link. If it's something Moriah and Karakash think is A Good Thing, then I probably won't take flak for putting it onto the INC pages. I think I'll ask some techinical questions about FTPing it straight to that folder, though, rather than having it go through my own mailbox! - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 19:26:17 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> List FAQ revised At 4:37 PM -0400 5/9/97, Walter Milliken wrote: >>>>Who's who on the List? >>> >>>No mention of Archangel Beth???? >> >> I was thinking of Beth and Paul and the other authors on the list when I >>mentioned that one should go to the In Nomine site and follow the links. >>As Super(ior) as Beth is, she's not an *official* presence on the list, and >>shouldn't get the grief... um... 'workload' that the official Reps get. ;) > >Actually I thought she was the *official* SJGames Archivist. (She's >listed on the netreps page: http://www.sjgames.com/general/netreps.html) > >---Walter (Seraph of Annoying Little Details) Which means that I get to look things up for people, not answer rules questions (unless they've been written down somewhere)... - --Archangel Beth, Archangel of Archives, usually Kyriotate, but with a surprising affinity for Lilim... (Hm. Maybe I'm a Lilim who got a "pick a Choir" attunenment from Yves? Oh, I *like* that one... Or maybe it went the other way around. O;> ) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 19:22:13 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Angel of X Religion At 2:58 PM -0500 5/9/97, Nathaniel P Eliot wrote: >Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM> writes: >> As a general rule, and this applies to *a lot* of different posts >>about who the Angel of X is... Not everything has a Word-bound >>Angel! Some places, things, concepts, feelings, virtues, etc... get >>along just fine without a Word-bound angel promoting it. > >Hmm - I'd agree with you in general (I can't see an angel of Stale >Bong Water, except is the case of some really vindictive Seraphim on >the council). But I see those three religeons in particular to have >enough importance to be granted a wordbound. Of course, the politics >surrounding that wordbound would be nasty indeed... Which might inspire the Seraphim Council to *not* issue such Words! They have enough to cope with, without setting *up* factions within themselves! - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 18:47:05 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Demons Smoking... At 3:10 PM -0500 5/9/97, Nathaniel P Eliot wrote: [...] >I'd say that this falls under the use of roles, only much >more basic. If the role "human", which most angels with >vessels get, would normally cover the use, it doesn't >cause Disturbance. Smoking a cigarette, eating a meal, >breaking that fire glass would all be fine, if they were >things a normal human would reasonably have done. >Destroying the model town would not count unless the >Celestial had a role that covered it, and did it in a way >that more or less satisfied the role. Guess this means that if my Singing/5 celestial spends a little essence and holds a note long enough to shatter windows (only do-able by spending essence anyway), she's going generate a lot of Disturbance... Figured as much. (Looks at several replies. "What have I started?" Thanks! Is neat-stuff!) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 19:01:36 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> IN NOMINE List FAQ v0.1 At 6:31 AM +0000 5/9/97, Walt Mazur wrote: >On 08 May 97 23:57:11 EDT, Moriah - Steve Jackson Games ><73407.515@compuserve.com> wrote: > >>Who's who on the List? > >No mention of Archangel Beth???? I'm not official. I'm just prolific and very, very good at looking up obscure rules references. (Why, yes, I have been called a rules lawyer... Fear my GURPS characters...) >>I'm shy... I'm afraid to ask something publicly and look silly -- what >> should I do? >> >> Well, realistically, first do what you can to a >> still your own). But SJ Games has the rights (since you sent it to a SJ >> Games' owned list) to make it available in its compiled form (also known >> as Compilation Copyright). ... > >Major non sequitur. Text is missing -- both there, and near the end of the FAQ. Somewhere, there's some happy little Gremlin of Technology, who just ate the lines... >All in all a very good FAQ. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 22:48:52 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: Re[2]: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #155 At 7:55 PM -0400 5/9/97, Cymrys@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 8.5.97 05:25:51, you write: ><< If I used the Waco insident as a reference for > :Christianity I'm sure I'd regret it. I must also include that I am glad > :so far that no one has generalized Muslims as terrorists. >> > >Generalisations can be dangerous, and I'm also glad to see that they've been >avoided. I think you'll find the reason there are few posts on the other >religions is down to the fact that In Nomine is a game that would, after all, >primarily attract those with a background in standard Western Christian >beliefs (Catholicism, Protestantism, etc). Of course, I make myself a liar >because I belong to the Serbian Orthodox church, but there ye go... I'm non-standard, too -- I think that In Nomine probably attracts pagans/"heathen infidels" like myself just as much as anyone else. It's just it's published in an area of the country where some version of Christianity is better established than much else. It sort of permeates the "group mind" of this culture. That we *have* non-standard people around, though, is A Good Thing, especially for established religions from *other* areas of the globe... >"Laugh and the world laughs with you; prank a Malakite and yer on yer own..." "But we'll stand around and applaud. From a safe distance. Like low orbit." - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 23:00:38 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Disturbing the Symphony >>> For example what about a model town that was built by the army to test a new weapon? Will noise be created when a Celestial blows it up? Or how about the breakaway glass in front of a fire extinguisher? Is it 'noisy' to break it when that is obviously the purpose of the glass?<<< Here, I think I would go with the basic premise behind celestials disturbing the Symphony. To quote Nicole from "A Bright Dream": "But while a celestial being, like me, takes up space in the real world, I'm bumping into all sorts of atoms and spinning them all crazy from where they would have gone if I hadn't been there......the larger the change, the more noticeable." So, it isn't whether the glass in front of a fire extinguisher was *meant* to be broken, or whether the town was *intended* to be blown up, but whether it *would* have been without celestial intervention. And I would take a literal view of this. Now, maybe the Army was going to blow up that town with a new weapon, but if an angel razes it with a Song first, he is causing a major change in the Symphony, even if the Army was going to do the same thing soon thereafter. Likewise, that fire extinguisher might have sat in its case for years without the glass ever being broken, had the angel not broken it out. Or somebody else might have come by two minutes later to grab the extinguisher....but the *angel* made the change at a precise time and place where it would not otherwise have occurred. It's the angel impacting against lots of atoms, thus causing a disturbance. On the other hand, the Symphony protects those celestials that it has "accepted" as a "natural" part of the Symphony; i.e. those celestials with Roles. The way I interpret the rules on pages 43-44, a Role is basically a "mask" the celestial wears, which can cover the disturbances he makes in the Symphony. It's not that the disturbance doesn't happen- the atoms still go spinning. But the Role may cover it up, turn it into a natural occurrence rather than a celestial intervention. So, I would rule that if a celestial is carrying out his Role by breaking a glass plate, throwing a grenade, or smoking a cigarette, then he creates no ripples. (And it's pretty easy for most Roles to justify smoking a cigarette, or other incidental daily occurences that create minor changes...even breaking a fire extinguisher out of its case, since you'd expect most anyone to do that if there happens to be a fire. I wouldn't even roll for them.) Otherwise, he does. But a cigarette is such a small object, it would be "background noise" as others have suggested. A grenade (and the collateral damage it does) or a town mock-up on the other hand..... This is just my personal opinion, of course. A lot of these details about whether such-and-such disturbs the Symphony depend on just how hard you want it to be for angels and demons to operate covertly in your campaign. But remember that if every little thing creates a ripple, then celestials would detect each other pretty easily at close range, just by the disturbance they create by kicking up dust when they walk. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 23:12:07 -0400 (EDT) From: The Quixotic Ninja Subject: Re: IN> Where Angels Come From > Checked out the Bright Lilim attunements yet? Checked out, formatted, printed out, and inserted into my three-ring binder of Nifty In Nomine Things on the Web that Aren't Properly Published Yet. :) Along with the Errata, the FAQ, the KTE/KYD pages, Moriah's Khalid, Marches, and Human PC emails to the list, and a bit of other assorted zaniness. All very good stuff. I need all the help I can get... I still don't quite feel like I know what I'm doing. 8) (Now, when _The Symphony_ comes out in 1998, *then* I'll be set. Writing and running *live* RPGs, *that* I can do... ;) - -- John Trussell truss@gweep.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 23:26:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: New Angels (Re: Laurence (Re: IN> 5 elephants, er elements... > > << I don't know very much at all about Brigid as a Christian > Saint. >> > > Originally the patron of poets and battle, and linked to fire (hmm), she was > adopted as a protector for womankind during the conversion of pagan Ireland > in the mid first millenium. > Yet many of her miracles as a Christian saint seem to involve fire, if only as a special effect. I guess you can't teach an old dog new tricks... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 23:29:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Mood Music > > > > > My problem is that I have a Diabolic taste in music, but I'm only > interested in playing and GMing IN with Angels... No problem. They may be the good guys but they can still feel surrounded by evil - hence the diabolical soundtrack. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 02:17:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Calabim@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> various in-nomine questions In a message dated 97-05-09 11:00:09 EDT, you write: << > 9) Under NominousCorpus/Wings the movement rate is given as just > Agility per round. This gives a typical angel with AGI 6 the awesome > flying speed of 2.5 mph. Hope they don't have to race a turtle. > What are the real rules? Those, for the moment, are the real rules. Gak. ;) This may change but then again, they may not. >> Ohhhh John! I think ya got one for "Murphy's rules!" ;-) - -Calabim@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 May 97 02:46:07 EDT From: "Iota (Tom Wenisch)" Subject: Re: IN> List FAQ revised On Fri, 09 May 97 16:37 EDT Walter Milliken said: >>>>Who's who on the List? >>> >>>No mention of Archangel Beth???? >> > >Actually I thought she was the *official* SJGames Archivist. (She's >listed on the netreps page: http://www.sjgames.com/general/netreps.html) > >---Walter (Seraph of Annoying Little Details) Well, If you're going to ask a Seraph of Annoying and Technical Little Details, the official archivist for the list would have to be majordomo@io.com, since it maintains the list archives automagically... :) -Iota (Tom Wenisch) Note: This Tagline left intentionally blank. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 03:24:22 EST From: temujin09@juno.com (Nathaniel P Eliot) Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Mood Music >> > Hmmm... didn't like it, myself, but then 'light' stuff rarely >> >appeals to me... now Marylin Manson would be prime stuff for most >> >demon Players to check out... >> >> Definately a good point, that, which simply adds to my conviction >> that if the universe works like it does in In Nomine, I'm on the >> first train for hell...;-) >> > My problem is that I have a Diabolic taste in music, but I'm only > interested in playing and GMing IN with Angels... Funny thing, that. I guess I just don't like the way most of the demons work - maybe the Impudites, the Lilim, or even the Habalah, but for the most part they are scumbags, and are much more fun to take down than to play. >> Nine Inch Nails works really well for angels teetering on the >> edge of Falling, or newly Fallen. In fact, for a creepy mood, >> the Lost Highway soundtrack (produced by Trent Reznor, and with >> tracks from NIN, Reznor, Manson, and Smashing Pumpkins) has a >> large amount of music to fit the bill. It's got some interesting >> German rock tracks tucked in the back, too... > > Lost Highway is a definitely worthwhile album to check out. Unfortunately, it isn't mine, which means I have to give it back at some point. The fact that I've been listening to it for about 4 hours on repeat might say something about it's quality or my sanity... > As for using NIN - man, I've got every album... I need suggestions >of stuff I haven't heard... Like I said before, Danzig's "Black Aria". I'm also partial to blues - Kenny Wayne Shephard, Sonny Landreth, and the Dave Matthews Band all work. Some Smashing Pumpkins is good, too. Damn - I wish I were in your place - I want more NIN! ============================================================= | | | /\ | | Nathaniel Eliot | Chaos, Discord, and the | / \ | | temujin09@juno.com | Illuminated Way | / <> \ | | | | /______\ | ============================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 03:24:01 EST From: "PERRY M. LLOYD" Subject: Re: IN> Vessels, sex, and children Conerning PMS, there is evidence that PMS is more that somewhat psychological. Not all "PMS" of course, some is purely biological. However, and I wish I could find the article, an experimenter did find that when the participants in the experimental condition were told by their doctors that according to their cycle, they were pre-menstrual, more than half of the participants suffered from the same symtoms which they suffered from their PMS. Call it a hunch, but I bet that a Celestial wouldn't have to deal with PMS to the same degree ANYWAY just due to the socio-psychology of it. Perry M Lloyd ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 05:11:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Cymrys@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Mood & This seems like a good place to try and solve a question that's been bugging me: When I first started getting into heavy metal, a friend introduced me to a band that play straight, hardcore HM - with totally Christian lyrics. The album was called 'To Hell with the Devil', but I can't remember the band name ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 05:13:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Cymrys@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> the afterlife as mosh pit... In a message dated 8.5.97 16:13:59, you write: << Unfortunately for this theory Original Sin is a Christian idea and In > Nomine is not specifically Christian. >> Eeeyyeesss.... But it is decidedly biased in that direction, whilst culling ideas from the wider spread. (BTW, tidbit of bizarre doctrine for the day: In the Serbian Orthodox Church, you're allowed to marry up to five times. By the fifth, you're assumed to have got it right...) Cymrys ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 05:35:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Mood & > This seems like a good place to try and solve a question that's been bugging > me: When I first started getting into heavy metal, a friend introduced me to > a band that play straight, hardcore HM - with totally Christian lyrics. The > album was called 'To Hell with the Devil', but I can't remember the band name I believe that that would be "Stryper". IIRC, they also had a xhange of heart and no longer are a christian group... On the subject of In Nomine mood music: Classical music is always a good choice, with "Night on Bald Mountain" by Mussorgsky and Holst's "The Planets" being obvious choices. Similarly, horror movie soundtracks are an excellent choice; the soundtracks of "The Exorcist" (Tubular Bells!) and "Rosemary's Baby" (some really surreal ones) are good starting points. King Diamond/ Merciful Fate is another option for the diabolical, with a fair selection among the works. There are some more serious songs, including several themed albums as well as some fun ones. Anyone for bunch of demons bouncing around town drunk together singing "No Presents for Christmas"? ='} Alice Cooper works well as well, especially "Welcome to My Nightmare", "Alice Goes to Hell", and "The Last Temptation". I would also recommend some "Ecto" singers, such as Tori Amos, Kate Bush, and Happy Rhodes, although their music is less easy to quickly label as divine or infernal. There are good examples of both mixed in. Well, I'm rinning out of ideas, so I'm going back to working up my character for Paul's PBEM... Oops da "Oh yeah, don't forget Gwar for the overenthusiastic demons" Ogre ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 May 97 13:57:08 PDT From: Lassi Seppala Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Mood Music How about Korn? "A.D.I.D.A.S." (All Day I Dream About Sex) would be great for sevitors of Andrealphus, "Lies" for servitors of Malphas. "Divine", "Good God", "No place to hide", "Blind, "Predictable"... Lassi Seppala ------- - ----- lseppala@dlc.fi ------------------------------ Date: 10 May 97 09:23:09 EDT From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM> Subject: IN> Melville's Angels - ----Forwarded Message(s)---- From: Austin George Loomis Subject: IN?> Melville's angels? Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 20:56:30 -0500 (CDT) (Is this thing on? All I'm doing is reading the digests on the Web, so...having a 2400-baud modem, I can't really cope with an ML that gets any significant amount of traffic, or at least, I don't think my mailbox can, so I'm not likely to su bscribe for a while. Rest assured, though; you've not heard the last of me just yet.) I found this while researching Melville's _Billy Budd_ for a paper for English class. It struck me as an excellent description of Dissonance, especially the angelic kind, particularly in Falling, so I thought I'd share it with the class. "Vere himself has been spellbound by an Orpheus of sorts, and he will not allow anything to break the spell: he is committed to this music wherever it takes him and no matter what it demands of him....It comes, however, from an Orpheus inimical to his deepest nature and puts him under a spell that he maintains to his death, a spell that makes him into something that by instincts he is not.... "...He is entirely sincere and high-principled -- all the more tragic that he exists under a kind of spell, that what he believes to be strains of noble music issuing from his heart come from another source and are in disharmony with his true inner self.... "Indeed, if he followed his `private conscience,' which, Mel- ville implies, should be in control but is not, he would not even be a military officer. Only by violating his essential nature can he remain faithful to the `imperial conscience.'" - -- William B. Dillingham, _Melville's Later Novels_. Athens, GA: The University of Athens Press, 1986. pp.369, 371 Another quote, later in the same book, gave me an image of John Claggart, the nominal villain of the story, as a Balseraph: "When Melville writes that he is an example of Plato's concept of innate depravity, he is using _depravity_ in its true and original sense of the perversion of truth. Not so much a representative of fallen human nature as a Calvinist would envision it, he is rather an illustration of a phenomenon, a person with an inborn compulsion to distort the truth to himself as well as to others.... "[His] are the basic traits -- superior intellect that searches for answers (`a peculiar ferreting genius'), restless disposition that carries one over the world, a sense of victimization arising from a history of deep troubles, and a prideful, contemptuous, rebellious spirit -- of a type of extraordinary person who is likely to formulate for himself a set of convictions that resembles the Gnostic heresy." (pp. 388, 390- 1) By contrast, if you've read the story, you know Billy's obviously an angel -- but assigning a Choir to him is a bit tougher. At a guess, I'd say he's a Cherub, attuned to Captain Vere. As to their Superiors? My guess is Yves and Kronos (the whole story is obviously about whether Vere will follow his Destiny or succumb to his Fate...), but YMMV. Any other ideas? - -- please excuse our dust -- .sig undergoing renovation -- please slow to 2400 - ----End Forwarded Message(s)---- ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #162 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.