From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat Jan 3 18:37:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA15545 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 1998 18:37:38 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id SAA00863 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 3 Jan 1998 18:31:55 -0600 Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 18:31:55 -0600 Message-Id: <199801040031.SAA00863@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #545 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, January 3 1998 Volume 01 : Number 545 In this digest: Re: Anime off-topic (Re: IN> IN Anime movie trailer : 2) IN> Hearts IN> Angelic Player's Guide Nitpicks Re: IN> Hearts Re: IN> Hearts Re: IN> Angelic Player's Guide Nitpicks Re: IN> Headaches IN> Re: Some questions Re: IN> Re: Angelic Players' Guide Re: IN> Cast List Re: IN> Stopping Celestials with Technology IN>sorcerers Re: IN> Re: Some questions Re: IN> Fwd: What 'he' finally did... Re: IN> Fwd: What 'he' finally did... Re: IN> Cast List Re: Re: IN> Fwd: What 'he' finally did... IN> Re: stuff.. Re: Re: IN> Headaches Re: Anime off-topic (Re: IN> IN Anime movie trailer : 2) Re: IN> Reliever becoming Angels Re: IN> Angelic Player's Guide Nitpicks Re: IN> Angelic Player's Guide Nitpicks Re: IN> Re: (Seraphim and roles and) stuff.. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 02:34:21 +0000 From: "Patrick Chester" Subject: Re: Anime off-topic (Re: IN> IN Anime movie trailer : 2) > At 7:28 PM -0600 12/21/97, Redneck Gaijin wrote: > >>At 11:27 PM -0500 12/17/97, Casca wrote: > >>>On Wed, 17 Dec 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >>>Ghost in the Shell. Run, do not walk, to your video store and rent it. > >>>Watch it multiple times. > >>> > >>>It's -that- good. > >> > >>(It's that *artsy*. :-p) Watch Armatage III instead; it's > >>got most of the same concepts and Armatage has more attitude and fan- > >>service! (Well, watch GitS as well, but I'd rent it first.) > > > >Armitage, feh. I was bored to death with that show, and the Godawful Manga > >Entertainment 'Outdoing Carl Macek' dubs don't help. > > Dubs, ick.... Luckily, Mangle Entertainment does put out some subtitled stuff. Now if we could only get them to sub the Giant Robo series. Also, I had the misfortune of catching the SciFi Channel's anime special last August. Specifically, the last half of the Iria series and the Armitage movie. Ick... Kiefer Sutherland sounded like he was tranqued through the entire film. > (And then there's the "Warriors of the Wind" mutilated; > and yet it's what sent me really ga-ga on this stuff!) That was one of the things that started my interest in anime too. And the original 'Naussica' was SO much better. :) > At 2:03 PM -0500 12/22/97, Casca wrote: > >On Sun, 21 Dec 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > > >> Suncoast Video can special order the subbed stuff... (And this > >> is true. The only dubbed stuff I can stand is Tenchi and Ranma, and > >> even then, we *prefer* the subbed stuff!) > > > >Ick. Ranma dubs suffer from what I call "Lucy Van Pelt" syndrome: every > >female character sounds like Lucy from those old "Peanuts" cartoons. > > Mmmm.... Except Kasumi! Well, Kasumi is, well, Kasumi. :-) > >>>Project EDEN was rather intellectual, for a DP movie. > >> > >>Mmmmm. Was that the one where they were stopping in the middle > >>of the plot to take a bath? > > > >Well, -yes-.....but please note how I qualified my statement. > > Point taken. Flight 005 Conspiracy was one of the ones that got a bit grim. Or at least I wasn't laughing at the mayhem they caused at the end. > >>>Ghost in the Shell. Run, do not walk, to your video store and rent it. > >>>Watch it multiple times. > >>> > >>>It's -that- good. > >> > >>(It's that *artsy*. :-p) > > > >True, but artsy in a -good- way. I didn't find it pretentious at all. One > >of the deepest flims I've seen in a long time. > > Hrm. I dunno, maybe it's just the books and whatnot that I read > (and write) -- I felt that it had been done other places and while > the *world* was interesting, the rendition dragged in places. Very > good animation, though. Possibly worth seeing just for that. I liked the animation, but found the original manga to be much better. Of course, the movie scrunched an 8-issue manga series into a 90-min or so movie. Ick, this just gave me the thought of being able to copy an IN soul into some computer memory. *BRR* > >>And then we've got Oh My Goddess!, which is probably nigh unto the > >>closest In Nomine/Anime crossover that one can get without doing it > >>oneself. > > > >I know others have disagreed, but I -still- think Bell-chan is a Bright > >Lilim. > > I could see that, actually... She's so *giving*. Hmm... Skuld as a servitor of Jean with a Need of Ice Cream? ;-) > [On vacation 22nd-28th December 1997: 400 messages when I get back!] Whee! O_o;; Patrick Chester (aka: claypigeon, Sinapus) wolfone@io.com "Well Jim, that proves it. The Universe not made up of an endless vacuum of eternal nothingness like we once believed. The Universe is in fact made up of Fabio." -Cape Carbunkle bunch at work. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 04:50:04 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Hearts >>>I'd say hiding it on the corporeal side of a Tether might work, too.<<< Nope, Hearts can't be brought to the corporeal plane. (The bit in the Marches about the Servitor of Eli hiding her Heart on Earth has been errata'd.) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 04:50:03 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Angelic Player's Guide Nitpicks >>>It would have been great to get a little someting on how Angels chose to become Malakim, and whether or not it's still possible.<<< It's not. >>>One of these days, I'm going to compile a list of all the "Officially" Taken Words.<<< Sounds like a job for Superbeth! >>>What's so untruthful, about saying "I am Zane"? Especially if the Seraph in question has a Role, as "Zane Davidson" for instance. I don't see any lie inherent in said Seraph saying "I am Zane Davidson."<<< Because it's not literally true. He is NOT Zane Davidson, he is the angel Zebadiah who has a Role as a mortal named Zane Davidson. >>>According to his Driver's Liscence, he's Zane Davidson. According to his College Diploma, he's Zane Davidson. According to all of his neighbors, he's Zane Davidson. From the viewpoint of all Humanity , there's a man living at 1211 Random Street, Anytown USA, and his name is Zane Davidson.<<< And all of that is technically a deception. Yes, Seraphim have to walk very fine lines sometimes when maintaining Roles... >>>Now, getting around the "How old are you?" question...I suppose a Seraph could say "23 and change," ommiting that the "change" amounts to 615 more years.<<< That would be at best, a very literal version of "lying by ommission." Bzzt! Dissonance! >>>The Angel of Astrology is a Seraph?<<< I did have second thoughts about that after I wrote it....but oh well. (I kind of provided a little more clarification on that which may appear in the Infernal Player's Guide...) >>>Page 72: Archangels In Person: Blandine. "...If summoned, she prefers to appear in celestial form, unless there is a need to reduce the disturbance." Wouldn't that give her Dissonance?<<< Beth, has this been errata'd yet? I could have sworn this was changed after that very point was brought up prior to publication, but maybe I missed something. >>>"Where are the new Archangels?" Litheroy, Christopher, Zadkiel, they never get to give comments in extended writeups of other Archangels, and their attunements don't show up here, either.<<< Decision was made to include only the major Superiors who appear in the In Nomine rulebook, because otherwise, we'd constantly be trying to juggle which additional Superiors get referenced in which supplement, based on whether or not the supplement will be published before or after the book in which that Superior appears.... You have sharp eyes, Nana! - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 05:27:51 -0500 From: eswhanu@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Hearts Thanks. This clears up stuff about this for me. I'm running Live Action In Nomine at the end of the month at a convention (50 players, I hope), and this makes some stuff fall into place. Brian Ward "I'm telling you, Domenic would be a much happier guy if he just took a 420 break with me and we hashed this problem he has with me out. I got this new steamroller with a big bowl..." - Eli On Sat, 3 Jan 1998 04:50:04 -0500 David Edelstein writes: >>>>I'd say hiding it on the corporeal side of a Tether might work, >too.<<< > > >Nope, Hearts can't be brought to the corporeal plane. (The bit in the >Marches about the Servitor of Eli hiding her Heart on Earth has been >errata'd.) > >-David > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 05:37:25 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Hearts > >>>I'd say hiding it on the corporeal side of a Tether might work, > too.<<< > > Nope, Hearts can't be brought to the corporeal plane. (The bit in > the Marches about the Servitor of Eli hiding her Heart on Earth has > been errata'd.) > > -David Look, I read Beth's message, and I know she's the LE. I was well aware that what I said was non-canon. It was an idea. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 11:05:28 +0000 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Angelic Player's Guide Nitpicks At 04:50 03/01/98 -0500, you wrote: > > >>>>What's so untruthful, about saying "I am Zane"? Especially if the >Seraph in question has a Role, as "Zane Davidson" for instance. I don't see >any lie inherent in said Seraph saying "I am Zane Davidson."<<< > >Because it's not literally true. He is NOT Zane Davidson, he is the angel >Zebadiah who has a Role as a mortal named Zane Davidson. > Now imagine the fun you could have if you ask poor Zane what it's job is! I'd hope the angel could realise that the intended question is 'what is my vessel's mortal job?' and answer that without incurring dissonance. In fact, if I had any seraph PCs I think I'd be inclined to look more kindly if they tried to answer questions as directly as possible, and cut the 'seraphic evasion' down to a minimum. Word games and playing with the literal phrasing of a question rather than the intended truth behind it suit the balseraphs better IMO. And if someone asks that mortal if its name is Zane Davidson then the answer is yes, I'd have thought. Its the truth and nothing but the truth, it doesn't have to be the whole truth as well... It might be viewed as rather careless to tell mortals the entire truth if they aren't ready for it. Also, pity the poor mortal who asks the seraph of Jean in its role as a station manager what time the trains go to London and gets a recitation of the entire timetable. >>>>According to his Driver's Liscence, he's Zane Davidson. According to his >College Diploma, he's Zane Davidson. According to all of his neighbors, >he's Zane Davidson. From the viewpoint of all Humanity , there's a man >living at 1211 Random Street, Anytown USA, and his name is Zane >Davidson.<<< > >And all of that is technically a deception. Yes, Seraphim have to walk very >fine lines sometimes when maintaining Roles... Is a role a deception? jo ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 08:36:00 EST From: MarkDEddy Subject: Re: IN> Headaches In a message dated 1/2/98 10:49:35 PM, you wrote: >(Us: "We got into a fight with a Balseraph of Theft. We >may have convinced him to go away." > >Seneschal of Lightning: "I heard.") This reminds me... In my game, our seraph of Laurence got into a duel with a Calabite of Baal. In a parking garage. Directly beneath Yves' tether in Seattle. Less than a quarter mile from Asmodeus' Tether. The two Seneschals showed up to the fight, and ended up placing side bets. Mark(Why are the tethers so close? It's the Universty of Washington Campus!) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 06:26:52 -0500 From: Nana Yaw Ofori Subject: IN> Re: Some questions >Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 01:49:14 +0000 >From: "Nathaniel Eliot" [Snip Question on whether Elohite of Yves Attunement can be taken by other Choirs] >I'd say that the only one in danger of being too powerful from this >is the Kyrio. All of the others, while powerful, don't risk being >combat-monstered, because the resonance just isn't that powerful. > >So restricting it to Perception-based resonances should keep things >clean. Kyriotates of Marc have an attunement with a similar effect, and they don't even require touch for it. If anything, it's more unbalancing than letting a Kyriotate buy the Elohite of Yves attunement. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 12:09:02 -0500 From: "Thomas Davidson" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Angelic Players' Guide - ---------- > From: Elizabeth McCoy > To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > Subject: Re: IN> Re: Angelic Players' Guide > Date: Friday, January 02, 1998 6:49 PM > > At 1:17 AM -0500 12/22/97, Thomas Davidson wrote: > >> From: Elizabeth McCoy > >> Anything that you've *bought* from a *store* and hold in your > >> hot little hands is fair game for comments, reviews, and whatnot. > > > >Okay, you asked for it. . . :) > > > >(But could you wait until after I've had a chance to read it through? > >Jeez, I just got it yesterday!) :) > > I can wait! But I'm back now! Wheee! > Okay, I've had a chance to read it through once or twice, so I think I can give a review now. I'll give it another subject, though. Also, I don't have the time to write it up right now. > >>Unless you're living somewhere in the future, in which case > >>I'd like a copy of stuff so I can find the typos and errata > >>and fix them before it's printed. > > > >But wouldn't that create a time paradox? Or is that impossible for the AA > >of Archives/DP of Line Editing? :) > > It's part of having the Kyrio nature, and being buddies with Yves. > Paradoxes are our friends... > Paradoxes? Friends? :) > >> [On vacation 22nd-28th December 1997] > > > >Oh, darnit. Well, you'll be missed. . . But have a good time. > > Did. Thanks! > Good. You deserved it. Myself, I've been holed up with a sprained ankle (to which I have three words: I HATE SNOW!!!). The good thing is that this has provided me plenty of time to read the APG. :) > At 1:20 AM -0500 12/22/97, Thomas Davidson wrote: > >---------- > >> From: Elizabeth McCoy > [regarding the APG] > >> > Aaaaaaah! Page references! I want my copy! Aaaaah! O;) > >> > >> Our local bookstore got its copies in, and we bought one... };) > > > >You're the LE for this nifty volume, and you had to *buy* a copy? Wow. :) > > We needed two copies to use and one (the signed one) to cherish. > Well, there *is* that! Sheesh, I've really gotta look into LEing something myself, so I can get all those freebies! :) Thomas Davidson tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us MUSIC: Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, Rush, Jimi Hendrix GAMES: Champions (old and new), In Nomine, Nephilim TV: The X-Files, The Simpsons, Superman, The Tick, The Animaniacs OTHER: Religion, Philosophy, mysticism, the runes, the Tarot, writing ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 12:30:42 -0500 From: "Thomas Davidson" Subject: Re: IN> Cast List - ---------- > From: Elizabeth McCoy > To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > Subject: Re: IN> Cast List > Date: Saturday, January 03, 1998 1:58 AM > > At 1:36 PM +0900 1/3/98, Dave Conrad wrote: > > Nybbas really ought to be James Woods. Videodrome is definitely a > >movie to highlight this. I haven't seen Hercules yet, but I hear he > >does a good job of it there, and the whole time I watched Contact, I > >couldn't help thinking that James Woods was Nybbas. Besides, he even > >looks a ot like the picture of Nybbas in the book. > > Which one is that? Not the Priest-character, surely? No, that was Matthew McConnaughey (or however you spell his name :) ). Jim Woods was the NSA guy who tried to shut up Jodi Foster. > Him, first > time I set eyes on him, I'm going: "Little ethereal gods. Eli. Yeah. > Perfect. It's him, it's him." I'm still getting that image in my > head... > > Yeah. That's the ticket! The McConaughey guy! That's him! (and he's a pretty good actor to boot!) Thomas Davidson tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us MUSIC: Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, Rush, Jimi Hendrix GAMES: Champions (old and new), In Nomine, Nephilim TV: The X-Files, The Simpsons, Superman, The Tick, The Animaniacs OTHER: Religion, Philosophy, mysticism, the runes, the Tarot, writing ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 98 13:10:17 -0500 From: David Wood Subject: Re: IN> Stopping Celestials with Technology Quoth "Elizabeth McCoy" on 1/3/98 1:53 AM... >At 8:44 PM -0500 1/2/98, David Wood wrote: >>There will be slight differences across the board. For instance, how many >>goetic catalogs of angelic and demonic names have a seek time of .83 >>seconds? > >All the ones which have been scanned in and put on a CD ROM? expression which no-one will believe> What's not to believe? That's what it amounts to. Information gathering techniques would be different, listings would be both more spartan and more informative, but they both would amount to more or less the same thing: a really big book on Celestial Spotting. And why is the Archangel of the mailing list displaying the Forked Tongue Discord? >:) [here inky cat prints obscure the next thousand lines of text] >>I'm sure she has it already -- in which case, she's welcome to archive >>it. And I may post follow-ups, too. I think I have the foundations of an >>entire story thread. Nothing to parallel Dark Victory, but I think I'm >>onto something here... > Thanks. Shall I put it in as an adventure seed, or fiction? >Or both? Fiction: absolutely. Adventure seed: no. But if you got a section in there on alternate campaign settings, it could grow into one of those. I'm tempted to call it the Secular Victory? or [SV?] setting, but that might be a form of hubris... Would people like to see this fleshed out further? If so, reply to me personally so we keep the bandwidth on the list fairly low. >[On vacation 22nd-28th December 1997: 400 messages when I get back!] Gee, you'd think she subscribes to a *mailing list* or something! >:) <:) >:) - -David http://www.bluecrab.org/members/dwood/ "And finally, in the disgusting objects international at Wembley tonight, England beat Spain by a plate of braised pus to a putrid heron." - -Monty Python's Flying Circus, episode 26 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 14:06:39 -0400 (EDT) From: gibsonc@NKU.EDU Subject: IN>sorcerers Alot of people are asking and/or are not seeing the benefits of being a sorcerer. To illustrate this , has anyone read "The Damnable Life and Deserved Death of Dr. John Fuastis" forgive me if John isn't his first name. To give a quick summary, he has learned all there is to know at a young age, gets cocky and conjures Beelzebub. Beelzy gets him to sign his soul over to Lucifer and in return Beelzy is his servent unto Faust's death roughly 7 years later. Read it if you can, it really explains well what sorcerer's can do. The power to summon a demon or ethereal spirit is incredibly strong, IF you are wise enough to control it and smart enough to have a use for it before you call on it. Faust has the demon remain invisible and basically does "palor tricks" to show off his new power. Oh yeah, he also goes invisible himself and punches the pope. Allow your sorcerers to be somewhat powerful but as the GM remember the demon summoned may serve the summoner, but he probably has his own agenda for doing so. diamonds and dollars, but that's my two bloody cents, jahon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 14:55:27 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Some questions > >I'd say that the only one in danger of being too powerful from this > >is the Kyrio. All of the others, while powerful, don't risk being > >combat-monstered, because the resonance just isn't that powerful. > > > >So restricting it to Perception-based resonances should keep things > >clean. > > Kyriotates of Marc have an attunement with a similar effect, and > they don't even require touch for it. If anything, it's more > unbalancing than letting a Kyriotate buy the Elohite of Yves > attunement. Well, then I've got a problem with Kryio's of Marc. ;-) It sounds like there's no problem then. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 14:42:36 -0600 (CST) From: Dataweaver Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: What 'he' finally did... On Fri, 2 Jan 1998, T Bretz wrote: > In a message dated 97-12-28 06:24:42 EST, you write: > > << > What's wrong with cats??? > > They're prideful. And they kill other things. Remember, the new, > happy Jordi loves only god's *good* creatures - cows, pigs, and other > animals that we lovingly slaughter, as well as canaries and turtles, > which make good pets. >> > > Cats are also vilified (since at least the middle ages) because (IIRC) cats > are not mentioned in the Bible. Anywhere. Lions, sure, but ordinary house > cats aren't. That seems to be the reason they're associated with witchcraft > in the Christian tradition. AFAIK, neither are zebras, iguanas, or parakeets... - ---- Jonathan Lang ---- x ------- alias: Dataweaver --------- Webpage: http://www.io.com/~traveler /@\ The Dogma of Otherness insists GURPSnet's Benevolent Tyrant for Life ~~~ that all voices deserve a hearing, FAQ: http://www.io.com/~ftp/GURPSnet/www | that all points of view have Archive: http://www.io.com/~ftp/GURPSnet | something of value to offer. submit new files to gurpsnet-files@io.com | --David Brin, "Otherness" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 21:09:45 +0000 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: What 'he' finally did... At 14:42 03/01/98 -0600, you wrote: >On Fri, 2 Jan 1998, T Bretz wrote: > >> >> Cats are also vilified (since at least the middle ages) because (IIRC) cats >> are not mentioned in the Bible. > >AFAIK, neither are zebras, iguanas, or parakeets... > Point. My guess is that its because cats were worshipped in other cultures (ie. Egyptian) and got associated with idolatry/ devil worship. On the other hand, maybe the French just never liked cats much ;-) jo ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 17:41:23 -0500 (EST) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Cast List On Fri, 2 Jan 1998, Querent wrote: > Blandine: Mary Steenburgen (Jessie Caldwell in "Powder") Partial to Meryl Streep, m'self. She's got the sad eyes. > David: Ving Rhames (Marsellus Wallace in "Pulp Fiction" & Duane > Stevenson in "Dave") I never thought about David as a black man, but y'know...I like it. > Eli: Tom Petty (Bridge City Mayor in "The Postman") Travolta. Go watch 'Michael' and tell me that's not Eli. > Gabriel: Christopher Walken (Gabriel in "The Prophecy") Who would > should be played by a woman, I give you Demi Moore. Cold exterior, > eyes which easily convey the wrath of God itself... Sigourney Weaver. > Jean: Jeff Goldblum (David Levinson in "Independence Day") The British actor who's played Q for practically ever Bond film. > Michael: Mel Gibson (William Wallace in "Braveheart") Charismatic, > noble, and a bloody mess on a battlefield when he's got an axe in his > hands. Not bad, though my first choice is Eastwood. > Yves: Anthony Hopkins (C.S. Lewis in "Shadowlands") Hopkins seems too Infernal for me. I'd rather he play Kronos. > Beleth: Gina Davis (Charlie Baltimore in "The Long Kiss Goodnight") I like. > Belial: Tommy Lee Jones (Ryan Gaerity in "Blown Away", Two-Face in > "Batman Forever") Laurence Fishburne. > Kobal: John Malkovich (Cyrus 'the virus' Grissom in "Con Air") I prefer Malkovich as Malphas. For Kobal, I'm thinking Kevin Spacey. > Lilith: Sharon Stone (Catherine Tramell in "Basic Instinct") Uma Thurman (drooooooool) > Nybbas: Ben Kingsley (Cosmo in "Sneakers") Though Jonathan Price has > shown he's not all bad at playing a media baron. Gotta go with James Woods. - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 18:19:16 EST From: LAstley Subject: Re: Re: IN> Fwd: What 'he' finally did... >>> Cats are also vilified (since at least the middle ages) because (IIRC) cats >>> are not mentioned in the Bible. >>AFAIK, neither are zebras, iguanas, or parakeets... or dinosaurs... :) >Point. My guess is that its because cats were worshipped in other cultures >(ie. Egyptian) and got associated with idolatry/ devil worship. On the >other hand, maybe the French just never liked cats much ;-) the despicable swines! liam ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 18:31:07 EST From: LAstley Subject: IN> Re: stuff.. >>And all of that is technically a deception. Yes, Seraphim have to walk very >>fine lines sometimes when maintaining Roles... >Is a role a deception? i'd have thought so. sure, the higher the role level the more entrenched in "reality" the alter ego is, but still - it's a celestial *pretending* to be a human. the seraph player in my game didn't take a role, but if he had i'd probably be giving him some serious stick now... >Don't know if I agree that Soldiers _have_ to be punching bags. I have a >Soldier of Hell as an NPC in my current IN game, and I'm trying to give him as >much spotlight time as the other NPCs, and to make him out to be a serious >opponent. And the Kyrio of Gabriel already cares more about defeating _him_ >than any demons that might turn up... cool. i agree that soldiers of hell can cause major headaches for the good guys. for a start, even the most powerful celestials are fish out of water in the corporeal world. humans always have that jump on them thanks to being natives. plus celestials tend to underestimate them. i have an evil organisation in my campaign called the Eighth Army who have given the players endless ulcers despite not being that "powerful" in terms of songs, attunements etc. in fact they're my favourite group of baddies (they actually believe they're soldiers of god, and the angels they're sent to kill are demons! their name comes from them being told they're children of grigori... the suckers. it's one of kobal's throwaway gags). when i referred to soldiers as punching bags i meant from the demons point of view. unless your boss is an impudite you're in for a rough ride. and if your boss _is_ an impudite then you just feel sleepy all the time instead... liam ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 18:39:58 EST From: LAstley Subject: Re: Re: IN> Headaches >I don't give numbers to players on Disturbance- I play the thing >holistically- what sounds right, is right. >Then, when a dozen Calabim drop on their happy butts, and they whine about >it, I point out, "Well, you should have kept track." ^_- heh. it's taken half a year, several demons with celestial songs of light, lots of soldiers with big guns, a few p-ed off superiors and one character death, but i think my players have finally started to pick up on the "disturbance is bad" theme. especially when in the immediate vicinity of demonic tethers . i'd feel like a habbalite except i don't _want_ to punish them, they force me to...honest >>i hate servitors of janus well, not hate as such. perhaps fear would be a better word >Oh, hey, you should have seen the rampage that us Jeanites got >into chasing a Thief... (One crashed BMW, later >slightly sideswiped; two Songs of Thunder; a Kyrio of Jean with >Song of Acid running around possessing the Balseraph's clothing; >the Balseraph tearing apart conductive wiring that the Kyrio was >wrapping around him, spitting acid from and the Ofanite was >using as a conductor for Generator...) cool. other people have games like mine. i was worried it was something in the water >Janus? Who needs Janus? Lightning has *never* been quiet. did i mention the ofanite of lightning in my game? >(Us: "We got into a fight with a Balseraph of Theft. We >may have convinced him to go away." >Seneschal of Lightning: "I heard.") :) liam ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 19:18:18 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: Anime off-topic (Re: IN> IN Anime movie trailer : 2) At 2:34 AM +0000 1/3/98, Patrick Chester wrote: >> At 7:28 PM -0600 12/21/97, Redneck Gaijin wrote: >> Dubs, ick.... > >Luckily, Mangle Entertainment does put out some subtitled stuff. Now >if we could only get them to sub the Giant Robo series. Well, all we buy are subs... >> (And then there's the "Warriors of the Wind" mutilated; >> and yet it's what sent me really ga-ga on this stuff!) > >That was one of the things that started my interest in anime too. >And the original 'Naussica' was SO much better. :) *HAVE YOU GOT A COPY*????? >> At 2:03 PM -0500 12/22/97, Casca wrote: >> >On Sun, 21 Dec 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> > >> >> Suncoast Video can special order the subbed stuff... (And this >> >> is true. The only dubbed stuff I can stand is Tenchi and Ranma, and >> >> even then, we *prefer* the subbed stuff!) >> > >> >Ick. Ranma dubs suffer from what I call "Lucy Van Pelt" syndrome: every >> >female character sounds like Lucy from those old "Peanuts" cartoons. >> >> Mmmm.... Except Kasumi! > >Well, Kasumi is, well, Kasumi. :-) When she's not Belldandy. (The Japanese voice-actress does both roles.) >>>>>Project EDEN was rather intellectual, for a DP movie. >>>> >>>>Mmmmm. Was that the one where they were stopping in the middle >>>>of the plot to take a bath? >>> >>>Well, -yes-.....but please note how I qualified my statement. >> >>Point taken. > >Flight 005 Conspiracy was one of the ones that got a bit grim. Or at >least I wasn't laughing at the mayhem they caused at the end. Which one was that? The one with the psi-kid? Yeah, that one annoyed me, for some reason. >>>>>Ghost in the Shell. [...] [...] >>Hrm. I dunno, maybe it's just the books and whatnot that I read >>(and write) -- I felt that it had been done other places and while >>the *world* was interesting, the rendition dragged in places. Very >>good animation, though. Possibly worth seeing just for that. > >I liked the animation, but found the original manga to be much >better. Of course, the movie scrunched an 8-issue manga series into a >90-min or so movie. AHHHHH! MANGA! Okay, the manga was probably cooler. >Ick, this just gave me the thought of being able to copy an IN soul >into some computer memory. *BRR* I like it. Celestial braintaping and ghostcomping... >>>>And then we've got Oh My Goddess!, which is probably nigh unto the >>>>closest In Nomine/Anime crossover that one can get without doing it >>>>oneself. >>> >>>I know others have disagreed, but I -still- think Bell-chan is a Bright >>>Lilim. >> >> I could see that, actually... She's so *giving*. > >Hmm... Skuld as a servitor of Jean with a Need of Ice Cream? ;-) Yes. Utterly. And Skuld is a Malakite. I don't know what Urd is, though. Renegade of Andre's maybe. >> [On vacation 22nd-28th December 1997: 400 messages when I get back!] > >Whee! O_o;; [On vacation 22nd-28th December 1997: 400 messages when I get back!] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 19:11:28 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Reliever becoming Angels At 1:49 AM +0000 1/3/98, Nathaniel Eliot wrote: >> >* What if an undead wanted to become POWERFUL. It's no longer human, >> >and it's not celestial. Could it achieve similar power to that of >> >a Saint? [If it's not crushed by a superior first, of course.] >> >> Surrrreeeeee. In canon, even. Just keep quietly >> building up those Forces... And don't let your bosses know. > >I'd think it'd need to have it's undeath reversed somehow. >Otherwise, it wouldn't be able to go celestial... Okay, except for the celestial part, they can get as powerful. I was thinking "sheer power", rather than the celestial thingy. [On vacation 22nd-28th December 1997: 400 messages when I get back!] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 19:24:10 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Angelic Player's Guide Nitpicks At 4:50 AM -0500 1/3/98, David Edelstein wrote: >>>>It would have been great to get a little someting on how Angels >chose to become Malakim, and whether or not it's still possible.<<< > >It's not. > >>>>One of these days, I'm going to compile a list of all the "Officially" >Taken Words.<<< > >Sounds like a job for Superbeth! :-pbpbpbpbpbpbpbtttttt! Been there, did that. Have someone else doing it too. >>>>Now, getting around the "How old are you?" question...I suppose a >Seraph could say "23 and change," ommiting that the "change" amounts to 615 >more years.<<< > >That would be at best, a very literal version of "lying by ommission." >Bzzt! Dissonance! I don't think so, entirely -- they don't have to say *all* the truth (unless they're Litheroy's), and indeed, may have to skirt the edge of their nature frequently. It would probably be safer to say something like, "Over 21," or "My driver's licence says I'm 53," or some other mildly humorous evasion. Filling out forms probably makes them twitch all the time... >>>>Page 72: Archangels In Person: Blandine. > "...If summoned, she prefers to appear in celestial form, unless >there is a need to reduce the disturbance." > > Wouldn't that give her Dissonance?<<< > >Beth, has this been errata'd yet? I could have sworn this was changed after >that very point was brought up prior to publication, but maybe I missed >something. It got stayed. If TPTB change their minds, I'll errata it with a swift and flaming sword. [On vacation 22nd-28th December 1997: 400 messages when I get back!] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 19:31:28 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Angelic Player's Guide Nitpicks At 11:05 AM +0000 1/3/98, Jo Hart wrote: >At 04:50 03/01/98 -0500, you wrote: >> >> >>>>>What's so untruthful, about saying "I am Zane"? Especially if the >>Seraph in question has a Role, as "Zane Davidson" for instance. I don't see >>any lie inherent in said Seraph saying "I am Zane Davidson."<<< >> >>Because it's not literally true. He is NOT Zane Davidson, he is the angel >>Zebadiah who has a Role as a mortal named Zane Davidson. >> > >Now imagine the fun you could have if you ask poor Zane what it's job is! >I'd hope the angel could realise that the intended question is 'what is my >vessel's mortal job?' and answer that without incurring dissonance. The other trick is that a Seraph does *not* need to answer the question that was asked. If you ask, "How old are you?" and the Seraph says "Fish", then there's no dissonance. So if you ask, "What's your job?", the Seraph may say, "The folks at the bar pay me to come in and sing." And, if they have a Role with a job, they *can* say, "I was hired to do [x]," or even just "I do [x]" (ommitting the "When I'm not busy smiting evil" part). >In >fact, if I had any seraph PCs I think I'd be inclined to look more kindly >if they tried to answer questions as directly as possible, and cut the >'seraphic evasion' down to a minimum. Word games and playing with the >literal phrasing of a question rather than the intended truth behind it >suit the balseraphs better IMO. Well, except for Seraphim of the Wind... >>>>>According to his Driver's Liscence, he's Zane Davidson. According to his >>College Diploma, he's Zane Davidson. According to all of his neighbors, >>he's Zane Davidson. From the viewpoint of all Humanity , there's a man >>living at 1211 Random Street, Anytown USA, and his name is Zane >>Davidson.<<< >> >>And all of that is technically a deception. Yes, Seraphim have to walk very >>fine lines sometimes when maintaining Roles... > >Is a role a deception? In a way. The firmer the Role, the less of a deception it is. For instance, many people call me Beth, ArchBeth, Archangel Beth (no kidding), and I even refer to myself in the third person as "Archangel." ("Hungry Archangel! Feed the Archangel before she starts throwing things due to low blood sugar!" Spouse: "Okay, okay, we'll feed the Archangel. What do you want to eat?") I've had this nickname for 10+ years now. It's a part of how I self-identify! My name is actually Elizabeth A.I.C. McCoy, but introducing myself as "Beth" wouldn't be me lying to deceive. Me introducing myself to someone I met via the Net as, "I'm Archangel Beth" would likewise not be much of a fib. A Seraph with a Role/5+ could probably use his human name (especially if it were a *close* translation of his celestial one!) with few to no problems. [On vacation 22nd-28th December 1997: 400 messages when I get back!] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 09:15:03 +0900 From: Dave Conrad Subject: Re: IN> Re: (Seraphim and roles and) stuff.. LAstley wrote: > >Is a role a deception? > > i'd have thought so. sure, the higher the role level the more entrenched in > "reality" the alter ego is, but still - it's a celestial *pretending* to be a > human. the seraph player in my game didn't take a role, but if he had i'd > probably be giving him some serious stick now... > I'd say roles aren't deceptions, per se. The role doesn't exist independent of the Seraph. If Joe Seraph has a role as John Browning, it isn't as though Joe Malakim can be John Browning when Joe Seraph isn't. John is an aspect of the Seraph, and so the Serpah wouldn't be lying if he said "I'm John Browning", simply because nobody else could be J.B. I look at it this way. For 164 hours per week (give or take), I'm Dave Conrad, Security Officer. For four hours per week, I'm also SGT Dave Conrad, USAR. Assuming I was a Seraph (hah!), depending on which uniform I was wearing, I wouldn't be lying if I identified myself appropriately. However, If I was walking around in my S.O. uniform and someone walked up and said "Aren't you SGT Conrad who works over in the 2?", I'd wrack up dissonance if I said no. J. Seraph can say he's J. Browning and not be lying, but if someone asked him 'Are you J. Seraph?', he'd have to say yes. On top of that, if he really wanted to tell the truth, he'd have to pronounce his name in (Enochian? Whatever the angelic tongue is called.) Anything else would be an approximation an by the totally strict rules, no more true than the role. Of course, this is just my opinion. I could be wrong. (longish - skip this if you don't care for grammar tricks). If someone said "Aren't you J. Seraph?", he could technically say no. "Are you (not J. Seraph)?" "No, I'm not (not J. Seraph)". This sounds silly and loopholish, but at least in Korea, this is actually the way things work. (More or less). - -- Dave C. iN*T*x "To break the rules is to break the spell" - C. Lasch ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #545 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.