From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Jan 6 09:36:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA25746 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:36:36 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id JAA18060 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:26:22 -0600 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:26:22 -0600 Message-Id: <199801061526.JAA18060@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #550 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, January 6 1998 Volume 01 : Number 550 In this digest: Re: IN> Forces as Game-World Objects IN> Re: Move IN> Who are you, anyway? IN> Seraphim and Roles IN> Seraphim and Roles IN> Seraphim and Roles Re: IN> IN cast List and [off-topic] Anime Re: IN> Cast List Re: IN> Who are you, anyway? IN> Anime and a [rather long] campaign idea Re: IN> Seraphim and Roles Re: IN> Losing your wings? Re: IN> Seattle for Celestials Re: IN> Who are you, anyway? Re: IN> Seraphim and Roles Re: IN> Who are you, anyway? IN> Extinction (was Re: What 'he' finally did) Re: IN> Seraphim and Roles Re: IN> Who are you, anyway? Re: IN> Extinction Re: IN> Forces as Game-World Objects Re: IN> Balseraph Fluff Re: IN> Song of Stability Re: IN> Song of Stability Re: IN> Concerning the Stability Song's Power... Re: IN> Headaches Re: IN> Extinction (was Re: What 'he' finally did) Re: IN> Extinction Re: IN> Seraphim and Roles Re: IN> Who are you, anyway? Re: IN> Christian Mods for In Nomine Re: IN> It finally happened, damnit... Re: IN> Re: Wow Cool Game, plus vampires and balserapth quibble ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 21:51:14 -0500 (EST) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Forces as Game-World Objects On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Essence as a concept -- "I had to burn Essence to make that > motorcycle jump!" -- yes. Points of Essence? Urm. Personally, > I've been trying to avoid sentence contstructions that > require specific numbers -- "Full of Essence," "Empty," > "mostly full," "mostly empty," "only a little Essence left," > "I'll give you half my Essence"... > > If anybody has better ideas... In my In Nomine: World of Darkness game, whenever Essence is spent, I say 'ping' or 'bong' -- in effect, the celestials hear the expenditure like a musical note. A large Essence expenditure would make a chord, _und so weiter_. Thus, I would suggest calling them 'notes' of Essence. If one listens, it is -possible- to make out each individual note within a song, and I figure the Perception roll to detect Disturbance is about the same thing. (Which is why, with a high CD, the amount of Essence spent can be quantified.) - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 21:58:08 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: IN> Re: Move Just a note to various people. I'm changing accounts; use the address temujin9@polbox.com. Thanks, and sorry for the inconvinience. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@polbox.com <----------------------------\ | Note the attractive, nay, even classy, new address.-/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 22:29:54 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Who are you, anyway? >>>Question Everybody.. If you were a non-mundane thing in the In Nomine universe, what would you be??<<< Hmm. Elohite of Judgment, if I really had to pick. (And that Angry Discord really causes problems sometimes...) - -David (I haven't Fallen yet. Really. I *am* an angel...don't listen to Beth, I am not a DP. >:)=) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 22:29:56 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Seraphim and Roles >>>Waiddaminute. A Seraph's true angelic name is his -identity-. But his Role's name is just as much "his" as his angelic name. So saying "What's your name?" "Rick Roleman." is perfectly okay. And I don't consider Roles deceptions at all, in that they don't 'grate on the trueness of the Symphony' like lies do. In fact, quite the contrary, they're meant to make the Symphony much smoother and less perturbed. Finally, the whole - - -point- of having a Role rather than just pretending to be a regular person is that you -really are- that Role. (with some nods and winks from reality, admittedly). So I don't see what the big deal is.<<< See the preceding (lengthy) conversation. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 22:29:52 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Seraphim and Roles >>>Here is where I disagree.<<< [Lengthy personal history snipped] >>>Does this mean, if I am a Seraph I can only refer to myself as "John Joseph Maurer" not even just "John"? As a GM I would allow me to use any Nom De Plume that is actually currently in use by me. i.e. Ian and Speaks are okay. Weed and Frog are out. A role is more than Acting. A role is part of what you are. Even the symphony sometimes recognizes that.<<< A Role *is* acting to a degree. If you are a Seraph with a Role as John Joseph Maurer, *you* are NOT the human identified as John Joseph Maurer on a fraudulent birth certificate and all the other documents based on that fraudulent document. You are an angel who is pretending to be a human and who has assumed that Role, a Role which will disappear as soon as you or your Superior no longer have a need for it. It's a part of you the way your manner of dress and hairstyle (or your "Assassian" handle) is a part of you - -- it's a temporary affectation which can change as needed without altering your fundamental nature, no matter how attached you may be to that affection at the moment. And Seraphim can *use* affectations, but they cannot claim that those affections are REAL without being less than honest. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 22:29:50 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Seraphim and Roles >>>Obviously, the temperamental differences of the various choirs are meant to supply structure for building characters. But how much structure? How tight a strait-jacket does canon mandate? Too tight and no one will play canon, though they may use it.<<< >>>Must all seraphim be as conversationally hobbled as "Star Trek's" Lt. Data or Mr. Spock? [...] Must all Malakim be totally humorless? [...] Elohites are stereotyped as "emotionless." People frequently have to point out that they are not; they just can't be swayed by their emotions. One list member, I forget who, has written up descriptions of the cast of "Touched by an Angel" in IN terms, and given Della Reese's character, Tess, the choir Elohite. It fits. She is portrayed as firm of purpose and clear of head. She emotes freely, but that never stops her from doing what's needed or recognizing the truth.<<< The APG brings up this very point. No, Malakim don't have to be humorless - -- they DO have to be honorable, and MOST tend to be humorless, because that's the *easiest* way to conform to the expectations of their Choir. Ditto for Elohim, who don't HAVE to be emotionless, though many are (or try to come off that way, anyway), and Seraphim don't HAVE to be anal-retentive stick-up-their-butts literalists...but they DO have to be excrutiatingly honest to a degree that would be difficult if not impossible for humans (and other angels). - -David (and I did the "TBAA" write-up...thanks ;)) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:25:14 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Kinney Subject: Re: IN> IN cast List and [off-topic] Anime On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki wrote: > >Why does this description remind me of _Teenagers From Outer Space_? > Because TFOS is cladestinely the "Ninja High School" RPG. Everyone knows R. > Tal games is rather fond of anime anyway... > Why do I suddenly see "The Ultimate Teacher" as a great big Vapulan plot? :-) (Got TFOS the other day... nice.) alberich@iglou.com | Mark Kinney | http://www.iglou.com/nations "The spectre on my back will soon be free... The dead have come to claim a debt from thee..." -- The Pogues, "Turkish Song of the Damned" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 13:40:09 +0900 From: Dave Conrad Subject: Re: IN> Cast List Querent wrote: > Dave wrote > > > > Aside from the fact that he's dead. Chris Farley would make an > Winston died? Dang it! Sorry, dude. That should have been a comma, not a period. > > on how he does in Zorro, Antonio Banderas maybe. Or it might be > > entertaining to have Bill Paxton as Janus and Valefor. > > You've a thing for Paxton don't you? :) > He's always been entertaining, and besides, his 'biggest' role was a tornado chaser. Dave C. iN*T*x "To break the rules is to break the spell" - C. Lasch ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 22:04:15 -0700 From: Chris Piekarski Subject: Re: IN> Who are you, anyway? lore@tmgbbs.com writes: > Question Everybody.. If you were a non-mundane thing in > the In Nomine universe, what would you be?? Definitely a Balseraph of Vapula...technology is my friend. - -- --¥-Chris-¥-- Fave Anime: Gundam, Evangelion, Blue Seed, Escaflowne Webmaster of -Anime News and Reviews- GodGundam@humanoid.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:28:42 -0600 (CST) From: rogue@ez-net.com Subject: IN> Anime and a [rather long] campaign idea >>All suggestions are appreciated- but ArchBeth, I warn you... start >>inflicting Geasa on me and I *will* play dirty for revenge. ;) > > Why would I inflict Geasa upon you? Well, as the Demon Of Running Red Lights, it is quite obvious that my services could be of *immense* value to the Word of Archives, in such situations as.... uhm.... err... never mind, then. Seriously though, thanks to ArchBeth and Redneck and Casca and everybody else for the tips... I'll pick a day sometime soon and make the trip to the nearest place that rents anime (a good thirty miles or so- doable, but annoying). Looks like Dominion Tank Police and Devilman are absolutes; the rest I'll just go and be spontaneous about. We now return you to your regularly scheduled IN List traffic. Something I thought I'd bring up, see if it sparked anyone's creativity.... I just finished running a campaign (it took about 7 months IRL, almost two years game time). The bare bones of it went like this: A group of the remaining Grigori, along with a small collection of Ethereals and an even smaller collection of humans, decide that celestial interference is a Very Bad Thing. By tapping into five relics of phenomenal power (left open to GM fiat- mine came from the only Grigori Archangel, Azrael AA of Death), a 'shield' is placed over the earth. It starts in five locations, one for each relic. It spreads and covers the whole planet in whatever time is dramatically appropriate; ours took three days. Areas covered by the shield present a 'no-exit' zone for Celestial Travel. In other words, Angels and Demons cannot Ascend within these areas. Obviously once the whole planet is covered, that means all Celestials left on earth are effectively trapped. Even the borders of the Hell/Marches/Heaven are blocked. Celestials can go from Heaven/Hell to earth, they just cannot get back. Due to the effects of vessel death (see below), the creators of the shield hope to kill off the Celestials remining on Earth over time and eventually leave the humans to themselves. Several Superiors choose to stay on Earth during this time. In my game, it was Eli, Michael, Janus, Jordi and the Archdean from the Divine Side; Saminga, Baal, Andrealphus, and Valefor from the Diabolical. At the beginning of the campaign, while the shield is still spreading, they should recieve instructions to 'do what they can.' Vessel death is, of course, very different. The PCs will probably learn this the hard way. Again opened to GM fiat, limbo is one option, but I like the one I used. Every time a vessel is killed, it collapses into a healing state. Keep vague track of how far into the negatives the vessel has gone and use it as a rough guide for how long it takes to restore itself to 1 body point. The character loses one point from one Attribute for every time they have died. The first death is one point, the second death is two, the third three, and so on until the soul is destroyed. It thus becomes possible to force-rip a helpless opponent by killing them once, healing them up (eith Songs or just over time), and killing them again. Repeat until dead. The PCs should have to figure out what is going on, of course. Mine did so with the aid of the ever wonderful Archdean, and her library. Again, up to the GM how much they can find in books and how much they must find on their own. It's always a good idea to throw in interesting NPCs, here's a quick list of my main ones: Rathven, Grigori Outcast of Dreams: one of the main perpetrators of the whole incident, constantly plagued the PCs (they had torqued him off before it even started). Jeremy, Grigori Outcast of Creation: disagreed with Rathven over the whole deal, and decided to just ignore it. He was eventually pulled in to the deal due to his relationship with Eris (see below). In my campaign, Jeremy was a very useful source of information on what happened with the Grigori after the excommunication. Eris, former goddess: I will hereby confess, I used Eris with almost no reference to actualy mythology, so she didn't even vaguely reflect on how myth portrays her. In my game, she was severely weakened during Uriel's Purge. She hooked up with Jeremy sometime afterwards, and the two made a lovely couple. Unfortunately, the mental trauma of the purge deteriorated her sanity over time. She is now something akin to Delirium from Sandman- mostly insane, but with occasional moments of clarity, even brilliance. She realizes just enough of what is going on to want to stop it. Loki, former god: Having the time of his life. With the shield in the way, he sees his chance to kick out 'the meddlers' and get the world back the way it belongs. He gleefully crosses and double crosses everyone, using his powers to their greatest advantages. He is more powerful than the version of him in Heaven and Hell, displaying more of an aptitude with fire. There were many more, of course, but these were the main ones. The campaign ended when the PCs finally managed to gather all five reliccs (actually, Jeremy did- but that is due to some evil little twists the campaign took in my game thanks to a Diabolical intervention). Brought together, they released Azrael, who had been bound into them after the Excommunication. Azrael lowered the shield, gave a touching speech, stripped himself of his powers and used his last energies to reincarnate himself as a human baby. Then there was much rejoicing, followed by an in depth study from Dominic as to why the PCs were cavorting with Grirgori and Pagans..... Anyway, that's the bare bones of it. If anyone is curious as to how it went in play, feel free to email me for details. Lots of fun things went down, including: the destruction of IOU (nasty incident!), the death of Eris at the hands of a Malakite of Purity (Diabolical intervention stopped the resident Creationer from saving her), an enraged Cherub going on a Grigori-splattering craze after Rathven blows up the building he's attuned to, and a wonderful gunfight-chase involving running, driving, boating, and eventually flying. - -Rogue, the Demon of Running Red Lights, Djinn Duke of Daredevils (or Duke of Hazzards) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 00:34:43 -0400 (EDT) From: gibsonc@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim and Roles One of my players posed a question I thought I'd throw out to you guys. Her character is 330 years of age, she thought she would just answer the age question by counting by decades, answering 33. She used her background the explain it saying after she turned 180 years she began herself to count by decades. Hmmm, what do you guys think? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 00:38:48 -0400 (EDT) From: gibsonc@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Losing your wings? On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > My impression was that 9 forces are not the minimum for being an > angel, but the minimum for being an angel an AA would send to Earth. > So I think you have a Malakite in need of repairs. Whether it gets > pulled back to Heaven for this, or whether the Superior is willing to > come down on an invocation and heal it, and how long it will be until > this happens, is all probably GM discretion. > > Earl > I have to agree, that a nine force angel is what superiors would expect when sending someone on a mission. I'd say if the player want to scrap the character let him. If not, his superior may want to send him on a special mission to prove he's worth the extra force. This could be a great chance for some serious roleplaying and growth for that character. especially since he will be at a disadvantage from the others in the the group. jahon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 00:48:50 -0400 (EDT) From: gibsonc@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Seattle for Celestials Lust: Deja Vu downtown (which has recently been closed down, for different > reasons in game and out) > > Fire: The Mary Pang Foods warehouse's remains. Four firefighters died, and > the state can't try anyone for murder. > > This is all I have for now.... Any comments? > > Mark(Seattle GM) > I was just curious, I used to live in Puyallup, and worked on So. Tacoma Way. If you neeed a seneschal of lust, there was a dancer at the downtown De Ja Vu, stagenamed Sabre (Say-Bruh not Saber) that I used to date, want stat? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 00:54:01 -0400 (EDT) From: gibsonc@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Who are you, anyway? On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > lore@tmgbbs.com writes: > > > Question Everybody.. If you were a non-mundane thing in > > the In Nomine universe, what would you be?? > Elohite of eli in the service of Janus (i'm stoic, like to create things and can predict weather very well) jahon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 01:03:58 -0400 (EDT) From: gibsonc@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim and Roles You know, if the seraph has an ID card, he could always answer authories who are questiong his name or age by handing his ID over and saying,"here read this". ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 01:06:22 -0400 (EDT) From: gibsonc@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Who are you, anyway? On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Chris Piekarski wrote: > lore@tmgbbs.com writes: > > > Question Everybody.. If you were a non-mundane thing in > > the In Nomine universe, what would you be?? > > Definitely a Balseraph of Vapula...technology is my friend. > Should we believe this answer? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 01:15:52 -0500 From: Garrett Taylor Subject: IN> Extinction (was Re: What 'he' finally did) Jonathan Lang wrote: >...every Word seems to either have two sides or an opposite >number; what would the opposite of Extinction be? Extinction - the moment of non-existance of an entire species (natural or forced). So the opposing Word would be Speciation, the moment when one species 'fractures' (a 'divergent' group of a single species can no longer create viable offspring with the 'normal' group), making more species. At first I thought Evolution would be suitable, but that's a general word for the process of changing from 'worse' to 'better'. Just as species can evolve, so can an idea or a software package. - -Garrett Taylor a Cherub in service to the Mercurian of User Support under the Elohite of Computers from the Word of Jean bigcheez@bellsouth.net "Let's split up. We can do more damage that way." - -- Peter Veinkman (Bill Murray), 'Ghostbusters' ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 01:05:37 -0500 From: Brandon Quina Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim and Roles > One of my players posed a question I thought I'd throw out to you > guys. Her character is 330 years of age, she thought she would just > answer the age question by counting by decades, answering 33. She used > her background the explain it saying after she turned 180 years she > began herself to count by decades. Hmmm, what do you guys think? Nice try, but I wouldnt let her get away with that.. Unless she actually said "33 decades." :) Afterall, the human is gonna think that she is saying 33 years, not 33 decades.. Thats dangerously misleading, and thus a lie. Now, if she said "33, by my count." that wouldnt be a lie. But just saying "33" would be a lie. She has to somehow account for the fact that she /ISNT/ 33 :) - -- (lore@tmgbbs.com) \\/// Brandon Lance Quina (x x) Jacksonville, FL ---ooO(_)Ooo--- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:18:34 EST From: LAstley Subject: Re: IN> Who are you, anyway? >If you were a non-mundane thing in >the In Nomine universe, what would you be?? erm, a balseraph of gluttony probably :) liam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:43:38 EST From: LAstley Subject: Re: IN> Extinction >At first I thought Evolution would be suitable, but that's a general >word for the process of changing from 'worse' to 'better'. Just as >species can evolve, so can an idea or a software package. does evolution, natural selection etc exist in the IN universe? liam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:40:19 EST From: LAstley Subject: Re: IN> Forces as Game-World Objects >There are so few forces in a standard entry-level celestial that >one more or less makes a big difference. Do "forces" exist in >the game world as well as in the game mechanics? Would one celestial >say to another, "That Malakite's got to have at least five corporeal >forces"? >How about Essence points? i've always treated forces and essence as in game, and characteristics (strength etc) as out of game. forces and essence seem to be really tied in to the whole background of IN, whereas characteristics are more of a rules thing. i've assumed its also based on experience. younger celestials probably just see a pile of forces. but more experienced ones would probably know that that tough gut over there (5 corp forces) is equal to an average human (2) plus an everage celstial (3). likewise they would know how many "points" of essence they have left, though they wouldn't use that terminology (it's be something like "i have enough essence to use my song three more times, or my attunement once"). i like that idea of referring to them as "notes" of essence. of course, kyriotates and shedim are past-masters at spotting forces and recognising what they mean. i don't have any problem with them being able to say "he's got six forces, he may be a soldier" liam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:58:55 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Balseraph Fluff > > > > I suddenly realized that an overwhelming majority of my NPC demons are > > Balseraphs. I try to make Balseraphs, but they always end up doing better as Habbalah or, in one case, a Calabite. Guess which are my favourite Bands. I'm also pretty bad at doing Mercurians, and Kyriotates and Shedim. In the interests of adding further fluff, I've decided to do my analysis of what Band/Choir the characters in Stephen Donaldson's Gap series belong to. Morn Hyland is, obviously, a Cherub. Angus Thermopyle appears at first sight to be a Calabite, but later on you realise that he's a Djinn. Nick Succorso is an Impudite, who's frustrated because he isn't a Habbalah. Holt Fasner is a Balseraph. I'm not sure about Cleatus Fane. Warden Dios is a renegade Habbalah. Godsen Frik is a Balseraph. Min Donner is a Cherub (as a general rule, you can assume that any UMCPED characters you see are Cherubim). Hashi Lebwohl is probably an Elohite. None of the others fit him at all. The most striking piece of evidence is the oft-repeated statement that he makes no fundamental distinction between truth and falsehood, assigning no moral valence to either. Koina Hannish is a Seraph. Lane Harbinger is an Ofanite Master of Divine Knowledge with the Seraphic resonance. Deaner Beckmann looks like a Habbalah to me. Darrin Scroyle is an Outcast Malakite. Sorus Chatelaine is either a Lilite or an Impudite. Ditto for the Bill. Milos Taverner could be a particularly evil Mercurian in his initial aspect. Marc Vestabule is most assuredly not a Seraph, though it is remotely possible that he is a Balseraph. My current theory is that he is a Malakite, although he could be a Lilite. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:01:48 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Song of Stability Conceptual Difficulty. If it's supposed to stop changes to the Symphony, why does it require another disturbance to enact? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:25:20 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Song of Stability > > Most powers, especially really potent ones, are dependant on "a few lucky > rolls". > > -David > Like the Habbalah of Lust with the Impudite of Lust and Shedite of Lust attunements? Let's see, that's Will + Ethereal Forces + Corporeal Forces, and shortly thereafter + Corporeal Forces forever. Remember that the Habbalah also has a dual resonance. Of course, there are others, like the Seraph of Dominic. The only Celestials that I can see who need lucky rolls are Impudites. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:39:14 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Concerning the Stability Song's Power... > > Because it makes mixed games more fun, and reduces the WODesque > "humans are nothing but faceless bloodbags". I would like to point out that as starting characters go, WOD supers are less unbalanced than In Nomine Celestials, as compared to mundanes. Methinks Soldiers are also less powerful than True Faith wielding Vampire-hunters, but that's just my opinion. In Nomine Sorcerors are the only humans that I can see ever being a real threat to Celestials, and that mainly through having plenty of cannon fodder/reliquaries to distract enemies with. (Servants are a much more reliable source of Essence than sacrifices). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 08:20:23 -0500 From: Brandon Quina Subject: Re: IN> Headaches > Oh, dear. I think my "I'm Only Renegade If They Catch Me" > Lilim would *like* him. (This *is* the Lilim who, when > Gabriel burned down a demonically-run strip joint, said, > "I like her style." She got a Gabriel-Rite later, too.) She would be alone in that regard. The only person who really likes Messiah (what a name, huh?) is Dominic and the Malakim. And even the Malakim agree's that he has to learn to be abit more subtle at times.. But thats just because my version of Miami is a demons-bed, so they like to lie low mostly.. > I think mine is immune to Judgment now, for the most part. We > have some Creationers based in the area, and a handy Destiny > Tether -- they come down and do sweeps of everyone they know about. > Nosy busybodies. Miami, as it is in my game, is pretty much covered with demons and other demonly things.. the Demon of Drugs even hangs out there more often than not (he's a word-bound servitor of Haagenti) They havnt met 'em yet, but the Demon of Overdosing is also there.. Like im convinced that there isnt a Archangel of Love-- just a angel in the service to Novalis :) > >::Grins:: Disturbance is cool. Our lil Servitor of Judgement > >ranks up quite abit of it while punishing the guilty. > Tsk! Flaming Swords of Justice and Charm Songs tend to rake up the disturbance-- as does the few times he's had to chase the guy and break down doors-- that kinda stuff.. Once somebody got away from him, cause there was a demon downstairs (it was in a nightclub) that heard the disturbance, and saw that it was upstairs.. :) > It's a GM call. The segment on disturbance in the book says that > echoes can lead people to the place, the person, or both in > succession, at the GM's option. Another way to work it is > to say that the CelSong of Motion causes disturbance at *both > ends* (leaving and arriving). And, to make it really evil, > let it cause the Song's disturbance *PLUS* the disturbance he > was fleeing from! (The Symphony was being warpled anyway...) Hmmm, I like that.. Ill be sure to slip that into everybodys next post "From now on, blah blah blah".. Not that he'll stop punishing the guilty.. but if he's causing all that ruckus, he should atleast have to pay for it :) right? > >Mercurian of Judgement, Elohim of Creation, Kyriotate of Michael > >Renegade Lilim (formely of the Game), a Remnant, and Malakim of > >Swords. > Oooooooog! Cool. Tell me about this sometime, hm? Ooooooooog?? So far this is how its worked out-- (warning: long) The games set in Miami. The demons have atleast two tethers to hell, and things are beginning to get abit hairy. Afew angels have gone missing, and Dominic thinks that they must be getting some kind of 'inside information' -- possibly from a fallen angel, or even just a traitor to the holy cause.. The angels, thus, have to worry about Dominic (who, although he has good intentions, we hope, can be abit annoying at times when your basically a good lil angel) and the Demons.. - -- The Elohite was, believe it or not, loaned so that he is in the service of Dominic. Dominic, obviously, dosnt trust the little creationist-- so he assigns one of his most trusted servitors, namly the Mercurian. The Malakim is a friend of the Mercurian, and they've helped each other out in the past. The fact that Laurence pretty much lets his servitors buddy around with the Judgement people helps alot (the Allied thing) The Kyriotate of War is something of a wild-man. He hangs out in a vessel-- a large heavily-muscled italian man. The Remnant was a Cherub who was working with the Renegade Lilim-- who had a several fear of joining up with the host due to some rumours of what Dominic did to members of the HOST, much less redeemed demons that had been passed along by various demon princes.. Anyways. The Lilim came to the Cherubs apartment one night, to finally decide to put some trust in the little guy (she hadnt admitted it to herself yet, but she loved him) only to find him celestially dead. Just a Remnant of his former self... The Lilim immediatly wanted to get out of there, and he rememberd what the Cherub had said-- if anything happened to her, there was a place she could go to get help.. She took the Remnant with her, and went to that place.. Thats where she met our Kyriotate of War-- and from that point on met everybody else.. I wont tell any of the secrets in public, cause you never know-- aefw of my players might be lurking :) If you wanna know more, just email me at lore@tmgbbs.com > Hm. Basically, you decide that the character is ready to ask; since > nobody in the campaign is currently serving that Superior... Probably > have to find an associated or allied or at least friendly Superior > (or Tether thereof) and have a message sent. *NOVALIS*? In a > bunch of war-faction except for the Creationer??? EEEP! Hm. > Might actually have the best luck with the Judgment, depending > on your view of them. Whether they *like* Novalis or not, they're > pretty fair. From their point of view. What do you mean by 'ready to ask'?? How do you judge when she is ready to ask-- I mean.. I know she has to want to, but I want to make it harder than that.. But im not sure what to require.. And I cant really stop her from wanting to get away from violence (although I think she's just roleplaying picking an archangel who is known for being kind-- rather than somebody she'd actually want to serve-- but I could be wrong) > And what Asmodeus does to redeemed traitors he catches. I think the fact that this Lilim used to be one of his servitors--- and that she has plenty of knowledge about what is going on around here (even if not knowledge of /why/ or /to what end/ its going on) will make her an even liklier target.. She's very much a hunted woman.. and she knows it.. - -- (lore@tmgbbs.com) \\/// Brandon Lance Quina (x x) Jacksonville, FL ---ooO(_)Ooo--- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 09:42:07 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Extinction (was Re: What 'he' finally did) Garrett Taylor wrote: > At first I thought Evolution would be suitable, but that's a general > word for the process of changing from 'worse' to 'better'. I agree that "Speciation" is a better Word as opposite to "Extinction," but "evolution" as a term in biology just means "change," not for the better or the worse. Originally, it was just Latin for "unfolding." Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 09:40:33 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Extinction LAstley wrote: > does evolution, natural selection etc exist in the IN universe? I don't think this is specified. Geological lengths of time do. The canon says things like "God was easier to contact when the universe was a ball of compressed energy" and some servants of Jordi "still mourn the passing of the pterodactyls." And I think some angels are listed as older than the 6000-year range of literalist creationism. On the other hand, given the way celestials interfere in the modern world, it seems to me likeliest that the IN world has "directed evolution" or "theistic evolution," whereby species evolve under divine guidance (and, for IN, probably also infernal corruption). Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 09:53:51 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Seraphim and Roles David Edelstein wrote: > The APG brings up this very point. [...] and Seraphim don't HAVE to > be anal-retentive stick-up-their-butts literalists...but they DO > have to be excrutiatingly honest to a degree that would be difficult > if not impossible for humans (and other angels). Okay, this plus the remark in another post to a bell-curve distribution makes this workable. But if I were an AA, I'd send to Earth only those seraphim who are on the more flexible side, or only send them out on the street with a Mercurian for a keeper. Otherwise this excruciating honesty is going to blow any attempt at cover. Any. In fact, if a seraph can bring itself to take a human-looking vessel and so DECEIVE every casual onlooker into believing it's human, it must surely have enough flexibility to write "Fred" on a name tag instead of "Pharadiel, Holy Seraph and Servant of the Most High God, Accept No Substitutes, Servitors of Judgement Take Notice, Demons Dial 555-0111 for an Easy Target." Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:08:16 -0500 From: Highway Star Subject: Re: IN> Who are you, anyway? Oy, a fun friend! Sure to make it interesting if we all meet up at a Con sometime... "Oh no, I'm going to be smited by the Archangel Beth!" I happen to be an Impudite of Lust...check the .sig. I'll pitch in for DanOz (Ozmodeus), too, cause he ain't around (the silly boy). He is most definitely a Calabite of Belial, even if he denies it (perhaps with Balseraph resonance?). You should've *seen* the mess he made of the candles at my birthday party last summer...we had flames going ten feet high. SeanMike - -- Sean Michael Whipkey, smw4s@virginia.edu Weldon Cooper Center for Public Service, Publications Div. 804/924-4185 (or -4188) voicenet, 804/982-5536 fax http://www.virginia.edu/~cpserv/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:25:45 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Christian Mods for In Nomine > > Ye Gods above, why don't we just give them fluffy tails and little signs > saying "Make love, not war"????? it is shown time and again in the Bible > that angels can very well be cruel... if we demasculate the Angels so that > they are never cruel, the War is over. It's not possible to beat that > ruthless a foe without some cruelty. > Ruthlessness and cruelty are not the same thing. Ruthlessness is doing the unpleasant/immoral because it is necessary. Cruelty is doing it because it's enjoyable. Michael is still presented in this version as being ruthless, and he is made the commander of God's armies, so I don't see that the angels would lose the War as a result of lack of ruthlessness. Why isn't Michael the commander of God's armies in official In Nomine, anyway? I've always felt that parts of Laurence and Michael were mixed up. Shouldn't it be Laurence's troops who never retreat or surrender? After all, it is said that Laurence's major flaw is that he is too idealistic to fight the War as well as he potentially could. And the word of War meshes much better with discipline than the word of the Sword, which is far more apposite to the type of lonely paladins we are told that Michael's Servitors consist of. If we're going to look at ideas that neuter the angelic side for no good reason, we don't have that far to look. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:10:53 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> It finally happened, damnit... > > : Malakim are NEVER cruel! A vicious lie from the Balseraph. > > Like I said, speaks for itself. > Does it? I'm quite prepared to believe that some Malakim are cruel, but all of them? I suppose they're all combat monsters as well, too. > : Janus: He is not a Theif!! And neither are his Angels! They may > : MOVE something... > > Janus, the kender of the Celestial Kingdom. (I wasn't stealing it! I > was just moving it. God's will, honest.) > You see, he's a Balseraph, not a Calabite. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 15:16:20 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Re: Wow Cool Game, plus vampires and balserapth quibble > [Brandon] > >Calabim seem to be twisted forces of entropy, who take pleasure > >in dragging things down. The crazed. More 'serial killers' and > >'stalkers' than the Djinn. Somewhat like the two murderers in > >Scream. > > DESTRUCTION. One word, one goal, one dream, one vision. > I like the Calabim, they're straightforward like that. > For good Calabite playing, remember that destruction can be metaphorical as well. Calabites of Beleth, Kronos or Malphas are the easiest to remember in this regard, but it's not exclusive to them. One day, I'm going to make a Calabite of Fire around this. Also remember that as fallen Ofanim (some of them anyway), the destruction is a substitute for motion. They've lost the ability to be in tune with the movement of the Universe, and they hate the Universe for it. My Calabite of War has The Art of Combat as part of his concept (not just as a funky power). When he's doing 4 attacks in one round and dodging every blow aimed at him, he feels _alive_ again, until he has to stop or run out of Essence... > Vulnearability/3 (sunlight) 9pts I reckon vulnerability to sunlight should be worth more per level, about 5 points, because it's fairly all-pervasive. > Vulnearability/3 (running water) 9pts For true silliness; Vulnerability to fire (extra damage), or stakes through the heart (again, extra damage), or holy water. > Fear/3 (fire) 9pts > Fear/3 (sunlight) 9pts You left out fear of crosses. > Anger/3 (beast within) 3pts [reduced cost; only applies when character > hasn't fed for a while] > > > That gives a vampire character an extra 57pts to play with. Now, that's > power. 'Course, it sucks to be a vampire, but this makes it more > tolerable. > > Cool stuff for vampires: > Vampiric Kiss [IN pg 179] With Ethereal Attraction below, it's a killer. > Shedim of Theft [IN pg 181] Let me guess, you played Gangrel. > [perhaps Valefor would give his vampires an Attunement that allowed them > to suck out a person's essence along with their blood. On the other hand, > a vampire sorceror could do just that, using themselves as a Reliquary > when using Focus/2 (GM allowing) and for sure with Focus/5!! (MARCHES pp > 61-52)] You know, I never even considered Vampiric Sorcerors. > Balseraph of Lust You have thought this out, haven't you? > Song of... > Form(Ethereal) [just cause it's cool] Form(Corporeal), because you need to avoid damage very badly. > Healing(all) [a must for any immortal] > Fangs as well as any of the Numinous Corpus > Possession is cool too. And the Incendiary and Art of Combat attunements are nice. Prank (aargh! Ravnos) is also pretty WOD compatible. And Consume is very very cool. > And, yes, in my house ruls, certain soldiers have access to noncorporeal > songs. Usually only those with a strong tie to the divine or demonic, and > I'd consider vampirism DEMONIC. It's canon for Vampires to have noncorporeal songs, to my knowledge. Unsure whether allowing Soldiers to take > Choir Attunements is canon, but... I allow it. More powers for the humans > to play with. > > Oh, and I'd allow vampires special Rites, too. But that's just me. > > Since it says that apart from the vulnerability and need and being 5 force, they're the same as mummies, I think it's pretty safe as canon. > As far as I'm concerned. Oh, wait... AFAIK, they can. Humans can have > discord. There're people with stimata out there (AFAIK) and quite a few > obese people; not to mention all the Geased people (IN world), and the > phobic (Fear) and paranoid. Not to mention Greed, Gluttony and Slothful. > I gather though, that it's not Discord in the strictest sense, more along the lines of a Flaw. > Kyrio of Judgement implies humans can have Discord, Balseraph of > Nightmares generates it in humans (or a shadow thereof). > > What I really would like is to see a list of Concord; those little > advantages that come from being "in tune" with the symphony. :) > ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #550 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.