From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Jan 16 13:30:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA14809 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:30:20 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id NAA04061 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:29:51 -0600 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:29:51 -0600 Message-Id: <199801161929.NAA04061@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #570 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, January 16 1998 Volume 01 : Number 570 In this digest: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes IN> Uriel Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Re: IN> Remnants Re: Staying in canon (was Re: IN> Re: Raphael ) Re: IN> Heavenly Purges! Re: Staying in canon (was Re: IN> Re: Raphael ) Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Re: IN> Raphael Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes, or who plays this game? Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Re: IN> Uriel IN> Other Rafael Stuff Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Re: IN> Other Rafael Stuff Re: IN> Remnants Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Re: IN> Other Rafael Stuff Re: IN> Remnants Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Re: IN> Other Rafael Stuff ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:25:50 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes > > Not to pick out specific NPCs but if the Habbie is Hobson then you can tell > because he's probably more composed ;-) If the person being victimised is > another Habbalah then its almost definitely him! > Another case: my as yet unwritten Habbalah of Beleth, the faith healer. The obvious way to tell the difference is that he will actually help people who fit his definition of worthiness. (Of course, not being a Malakite, he has to interrogate them in order to do so, at length.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:42:36 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes > > Not to pick out specific NPCs but if the Habbie is Hobson then you can tell > > because he's probably more composed ;-) If the person being victimised is > > another Habbalah then its almost definitely him! > > > Another case: my as yet unwritten Habbalah of Beleth, the faith healer. > The obvious way to tell the difference is that he will actually help > people who fit his definition of worthiness. (Of course, not being a > Malakite, he has to interrogate them in order to do so, at length.) Okay, trivia question. Does EVERYONE have a Habbalah of Beleth in their campaigns as an NPC somewhere? Or is just a coinkidink? - - Em, Demon of Plaid Pants ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:46:12 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Uriel >>>Here's a related question: Why 745? I've searched my knowledge of Western history and folklore for something important relating to that year, and I can't come up with anything. (If it's too obvious, let me down easy, okay?)<<< In 745 A.D., the Roman Catholic Church declared that Uriel was no longer an Archangel and labeled him a Saint instead. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:02:15 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes > > Another case: my as yet unwritten Habbalah of Beleth, the faith healer. > > The obvious way to tell the difference is that he will actually help > > people who fit his definition of worthiness. (Of course, not being a > > Malakite, he has to interrogate them in order to do so, at length.) > > Okay, trivia question. Does EVERYONE have a Habbalah of Beleth in their > campaigns as an NPC somewhere? Or is just a coinkidink? > He's only an NPC if I can't play him as a PC (that's how many of my NPCs start). Admittedly, I find it hard to believe I'll get the chance, but I like to think I could. But to answer your question. No. I'm not running a campaign, and haven't got the details for any campaigns worked out. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:08:44 -0500 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Remnants > > If someone is playing a Remnant masochistically, then they should > > consider the Will 1 Percpetion 2 (or vice versa) to be part of the > > masochism... > > I simply give my remnants 0 in both of those. Technically, both situations are right. If you are creating a character, according to the rules, with X number of Forces and 0 are in Celestial, then you are going to have 0 Will. If, on the other hand, you are a Celestial who had bought up your stats a bit, then each drop in Forces will take away 4 points of stats, eventually leaving some vague leftovers behind. Of course, if you are going the (non-canon) 0 Forces mean 0 stats, more power to you! ;) > IMHO, any roleplaying a Remnant most likly A) Wouldnt want to > recover B) wouldnt know that he /had/ anything to recover.. > > Afterall, if the mere mention of the word angel makes you scared, > upset, and such forth-- what would the idea of BECOMING AN ANGEL > again do to you?? Yep. Those low-will remnants aren't very strong to begin with. And while being an angel is exhilarating and wonderful, it's also terrifying in its grandeur. Also the last _angelic_ thing the remnant might remember is pain and loss. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:11:52 -0500 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: Staying in canon (was Re: IN> Re: Raphael ) > Thats a fair point. I think the rule with errata should be the same as > engineering principle #3[2] which is 'if something isn't broken, don't fix > it'. My feeling is that errata should be kept to an absolute minimum (ie. > the default should always be 'how can we work around what is already in > print'), mainly for rules fixes or blatent inconsistencies. Yeppers. I try to follow this, myself. On occasion, I stray and at other times the others do, but we try to keep each other honest. In fact, when we get time, Beth and I are working on 'rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty'. Basically the stuff that there is no canon and we will _never_ make canon on. Things that will always be up to the GM. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:37:47 -0500 From: "Rev.TOC" Subject: Re: IN> Heavenly Purges! d.ranzato@bpa.vnu.com wrote: > > >PS. This info comes from a book called "Angels: An endangered species". A > >very good book about the history of the angels. > Thanks for the answer and the source tip. Who is the author and is > it still in print? > "Angels: An Endangered Species" by Malcolm Godwin Published by Boxtree in the UK and Simon & Shuster in the US ISBN 1 85283 506 0 No idea if it's still in print, but it's worth hunting out. fnord, Rev.TOC - -- The Reverend "The Other Chris" Not Subbie...Not Dommie...Just Pervy UIN # 4814586 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:39:51 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: Staying in canon (was Re: IN> Re: Raphael ) > Yeppers. I try to follow this, myself. On > occasion, I stray and at other times the others do, > but we try to keep each other honest. > In fact, when we get time, Beth and I are > working on 'rigidly defined areas of doubt and > uncertainty'. Basically the stuff that there is > no canon and we will _never_ make canon on. Things > that will always be up to the GM. Oh, excellent. That list will be well appreciated. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:43:39 +0100 From: d.ranzato@bpa.vnu.com Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Kevin Walsh wrote: But to answer your question. No. I'm not running a campaign, and haven't got the details for any campaigns worked out. So, how many of us on this mailing list actually play in a campaign, either as a GM or a PC? To start with myself, I am a GM and run a campaign with only angelic PC´s and the location is London, England (although the PC´s are currently in Paris, France). I choose this location because I live in the Netherlands (Amsterdam, the biggest Tether of Eli) and London is more familiar to me and my players then the States. The Gameworld is for the most part SJ-canon, with a few minor alterations. It would be interesting to hear from other GM´s and players and maybe share a couple of ideas. Donato Ranzato ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:20:25 -0500 From: eswhanu@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes In about 2 weeks, I'm starting up a live action In Nomine chronicle, using both angelic and demonic characters. I'm shying away from the Marches for now, only because the corporeal realm is hard enough Live action!!! Brian Ward On Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:43:39 +0100 d.ranzato@bpa.vnu.com writes: >Kevin Walsh wrote: >But to answer your question. No. I'm not running a campaign, and >haven't >got the details for any campaigns worked out.>So, how many of us on this mailing list actually play in a campaign, >either>as a GM or a PC? > >To start with myself, I am a GM and run a campaign with only angelic >PC´s>and the location is London, England (although the PC´s are currently >in>Paris, France). I choose this location because I live in the Netherlands> (Amsterdam, the biggest Tether of Eli) and London is more familiar to >me>and my players then the States. The Gameworld is for the most part>SJ-canon, with a few minor alterations. It would be interesting to >hear >from other GM´s and players and maybe share a couple of ideas. > >Donato Ranzato > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:22:25 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes > > So, how many of us on this mailing list actually play in a campaign, either > as a GM or a PC? > I'm sort of playing in two campaigns, in the sense that they campaigns exist and I have players for them. It's just hard to find time to play. > To start with myself, I am a GM and run a campaign with only angelic PC4s > and the location is London, England (although the PC4s are currently in > Paris, France). I choose this location because I live in the Netherlands > (Amsterdam, the biggest Tether of Eli) and London is more familiar to me > and my players then the States. The Gameworld is for the most part > SJ-canon, with a few minor alterations. It would be interesting to hear > from other GM4s and players and maybe share a couple of ideas. > In one of them, which hasn't exactly started, I'm a Cherub of Dominic, working as a police officer, in a smallish town of 50,000 or so, presumably in Amerikay. The other members of the Triad are a Seraph, who has a Role as a judge, and an Elohite, who has no Role. The law actually works well in this area, surprisingly enough, though maybe not after the campaign really starts. In the other, characters are going to be swapped around. I played a Habbalah of War in the first few sessions. The events were, in order: American President's advisors are purged of demons. Secret peace negotiations (a genuine nuclear disarmament treaty) occur in Geneva, later sabotaged (by us). Belial tries to nuke New York, we're instructed to stop it. I'm privately told to make sure that the French town where the base Belial's troop had taken over is located takes the brunt. With the unwitting assistance of numerous mundane soldiers and a couple of Servitors of Belial, I manage to make that the only way of preventing a nuke of New York. Unfortunately, I lose a very valuable Vessel and spend 12 days in Trauma, but what the hell? A calculation of the disturbance leads me to conclude that almost every disturbance following it for the next twelve months worldwide will be masked. It's 700,000 points given human casualties alone. Is this why Baal wanted it? Maybe. My GM doesn't necessarily agree with these conclusions, but it's my current theory. Next, I'll be doing a Seraph of the Swords, who's been in the Corporeal Realm for a grand total of two months. He will most definitely need a keeper. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:25:37 -0500 From: John J Maurer Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes At 04:43 PM 1/16/98 +0100, d.ranzato@bpa.vnu.com wrote: >Kevin Walsh wrote: >But to answer your question. No. I'm not running a campaign, and haven't >got the details for any campaigns worked out. > >So, how many of us on this mailing list actually play in a campaign, either >as a GM or a PC? I am GMing a game with 7 PCs in the Atlanta/Athens Georgia area. Here's a question to GMs that I would like disucssed. I have noticed a problem in my game with a Seraphim of Michael and a Malakite of Eli. Once either of them finds out someone is a demon, they immediately go balistic and kill (or try to) kill it. This ruins so many interesting possibility for roleplaying. Any ideas how to fix it? Speaks "Being crazy and evil at the same time is no picnic, believe me!" -Necross the Mad ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:27:39 -0800 (PST) From: Querent Subject: Re: IN> Raphael If you happen to follow canon? Canon *was* that Raph is a Cherub. Then canon *became* Raph is an Elohite. Given that canon is at least this maleable, I would like to see it turned BACK! As one person said, "if it aint broke, don't fix it". Well, it wasn't broke, but someone thought it was making a funny noise (which few if any others could hear) and got all inside with a screwdriver. This is a political statement that says "Once it's out the door, it's out the door. If it absolutely needs to be changed after that, let's do it, but the editing of points that *aren't* important for clarity and/or game play should be taken care of in-house or not at all." My assumption is this: If it's not a problem making errata of something in print in a few thousand books, it's less troublesome to make errata of something posted once on one web page. My argument is that if the author of In Nomine is also the author of the only references to Raphael and the author of the "Raph's a Cherub" line in a book, can we not give the benefit of the doubt? I too think errata should be made when *necessary*. I'd be silent if it was someone else who said Raph was a Cherub, but it wasn't. Let's assume the man who defined Cherubs for us knows what they are. Let us also assume that the man who wrote the only information on Raph has a vague inkling as to who Raph was. If this same individual says Raph is a Cherub, it's ok with me. I'm most bothered because as I understand it, the errata was made because other people thought one act of that particular archangel was a logicly sound decision, and therefore he's an Elohite. I propose that: A: Elohim have not patented logical choices, just as Seraphim aren't the only angels who are allowed to say truthful things, and Malakim aren't the only ones allowed to make vows. B: The man who defined both Raph and Cherubim should be considered at least familiar enough with both subjects to be given the benefit of the doubt. If I am given reasonable evidence that Raph *defies* the Cherubic concept (not just that he could more easily be an Elohim, but that he's actually NOT a Cherub) then I'll shut up. Indeed, I'll support any such argument. Until then, my resources shall be printing T-Shirts, Bumper Stickers, Campaign Buttons, Screen Savers, Desktop Themes, Major Motion Pictures, and Cute Fuzzy Stuffed Animals. All of which are part of a mass media blitz entitled "Protect author's integrity. Raph's a Cherub, Dang it!" Hmmm...I need to go now, got a phone call to make to negotiate terms on a new "Raph's a Cherub" pez dispencer.... - ---David Edelstein wrote: > > Everyone is saying Raphael is a Cherub, incidentally, because Derek Pearcy > said so. I realize this is what's in the APG, but if you check the APG > errata now online, you'll see that he has been changed -- Raphael was an > Elohite. > > That is, if you happen to choose to follow SJG canon. ;) == --Querent USELESS FACT: The name Led Zeppelin was first coined by Keith Moon, drummer for The Who. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:32:22 -0800 (PST) From: Querent Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes I'm not sure. I played for a time in a fun game with some local friends. More recently, I've been a GM of a gaming group that meets fairly infrequently (around once a month if we're lucky) and past my bed time. (Ah, nothing like trying to run your games when you're not fully awake.) - ---d.ranzato@bpa.vnu.com wrote: > So, how many of us on this mailing list actually play in a campaign, either > as a GM or a PC? == --Querent USELESS FACT: The name Led Zeppelin was first coined by Keith Moon, drummer for The Who. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:28:45 EST From: MarkDEddy Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes, or who plays this game? In a message dated 1/16/98 7:49:41 AM, d.ranzato@bpa.vnu.com writes: >So, how many of us on this mailing list actually play in a campaign, either >as a GM or a PC? I'm a GM for a small(ish) group fluctuating between three and five players. Our setting is in Seattle, WA, and I use a heavily modified version of In Nomine. My modifications include: Combat: rather than using the In Nomine combat systen, I use the Paranoia Dramatic Combat System. Vessels: If a vessel is killed, it slowly turns to dust and blows away, rather than sticking around to confuse the coroners. Human Abilities: I use a cobbled-together Mystic ability to be the light-side version of Sorcerors. Among other things, a mystic can bless water, making it Holy Water, which does massive damage to Demonic vessels and can kick Shedites out of their 'horses', create warded spaces that will block demons from entering, and pray for help with an increased chance of Heavenly intervention. Archangels: One of the PCs is a Mercurian of Beth, and there is an NPC reliever who serves Rafael, the Archangel of Humanity. (The dead Archangel of Knowledge is actually Phaniel in my campaign...) Mark (I'm probably forgetting a few things, but that's OK...) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:55:49 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes > > Here's a question to GMs that I would like disucssed. I have noticed a > problem in my game with a Seraphim of Michael and a Malakite of Eli. Once > either of them finds out someone is a demon, they immediately go balistic > and kill (or try to) kill it. This ruins so many interesting possibility > for roleplaying. Any ideas how to fix it? > Didn't we have this discussion before? Instruct them in the value of subtlety. Give the other players a chance to keep them away. If Demons are approaching the PCs to do deals, the PCs are known to them to an extent. Give those Demons Celestial Tongues. Give the Seraph of Michael orders from his boss not to kill them. Have the meetings in public places, so the Seraph and the Malakite have the choice of either talking or being arrested. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:56:58 -0800 (PST) From: Querent Subject: Re: IN> Uriel Ok David, that's one theory, but I think you're overlooking the obvious. 745 can also be written as 7:45 7:45 is sometimes referred to as "A quarter to Eight", but occasionally you'll find those people that use "a quarter of" instead of "a quarter to". A quarter of 8 is 2. 2 represents the divine duality. Light and darkness, good and evil, coke and pepsi, ... Thus, prior to the year 745 there were many pagan forces at work, but in that year, cosmicly the universe was drawn into a duality and the pagan spirits were negligible at best. Uriel's job was done. So, he got invited upstairs for a darn good game of bowling. Your whole catholic church idea was cute too, but too much of a stretch. - ---David Edelstein wrote: > > >>>Here's a related question: Why 745? I've searched my knowledge of > Western history and folklore for something important relating to that year, > and I can't come up with anything. (If it's too obvious, let me down easy, > okay?)<<< > > > In 745 A.D., the Roman Catholic Church declared that Uriel was no longer an > Archangel and labeled him a Saint instead. > > -David > == --Querent USELESS FACT: The name Led Zeppelin was first coined by Keith Moon, drummer for The Who. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:31:20 -0800 From: Armand Subject: IN> Other Rafael Stuff This question may have already been answered in either one of the sourcebooks or elsewhere: What about Rafael's trumpet? To me, the easy solution is that it was lost in the fight with Legion. However, if it is not, then what does canon have to say on the subject. Armand ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:31:20 -0800 From: Armand Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes >So, how many of us on this mailing list actually play in a campaign, either >as a GM or a PC? > >To start with myself, I am a GM and run a campaign with only angelic PC´s >and the location is London, England (although the PC´s are currently in >Paris, France). I haven't started a campaign just yet. I'm still awaiting the IPG. When it does come out, then the campaign that I'm will, likewise, be set in London and the surrounding area. This mostly has to do with "Good Omens" by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman. Most of my roleplaying group has read this. I don't think that I would like to have any of them playing Aziraphel or Crowley. Having them as NPC's should solve that dilema. Mosly, at this point, I'm running a lot of WoD stuff. Hopefully I'll be able to wrap up one of them by the time the IPG comes out. (Does anyone have an ETA on that?) Armand, Angel of Hair Dressers ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:46:37 -0800 From: Armand Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes >> >> Here's a question to GMs that I would like disucssed. I have noticed a >> problem in my game with a Seraphim of Michael and a Malakite of Eli. Once >> either of them finds out someone is a demon, they immediately go balistic >> and kill (or try to) kill it. This ruins so many interesting possibility >> for roleplaying. Any ideas how to fix it? >> >Didn't we have this discussion before? Instruct them in the value of >subtlety. Give the other players a chance to keep them away. If Demons >are approaching the PCs to do deals, the PCs are known to them to an >extent. Give those Demons Celestial Tongues. Give the Seraph of Michael >orders from his boss not to kill them. Have the meetings in public >places, so the Seraph and the Malakite have the choice of either talking >or being arrested. If the above doesn't work, then go heavy handed. "The Seraph and the Malakite enter [insert location here]. 'Hey guys, it's the individual you have found out is a demon.' The angels start to go ballistic. Lights come on. Demon speaks,'Even those among the fallen have a friend or two.' The angels look about and see the glittering array of weapons in the hands of some thirty or forty inferals. 'Can we talk now, gentles?'" If your players don't learn subltety real fast in this situation, then I'm certain the next set of characters that they make will. Armand, Angel of Hair Dressers ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:57:38 -0800 (PST) From: Querent Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes Hurt them, and hurt them *hard*. Here are a few plot hooks, take them and run, or dump them in the river. Your call. There's a new demon in town. He's a nomad who was not fallen, but rather created in hell. The problem? He's disillusioned of Hell's lies, and enjoys beauty a little too much. He's not quite on the road to redemption, but he's headed that way. If he's killed, he most likely will hate angels. Michael will be pissed that a potential recruit with inside info on the enemy was sent back to base camp. Eli will wonder what is the use of a Malakim who would rather just tear up a vessel rather than actually ridding the symphony of one more evil. A demon shows up snooping around. He's arrogant, evil, and loathes the PC's. He's just a little Balseraph of the Game, hunting down a renegade. His prey? A 13 force Djinn who's gotten pissed and said "bite me" to Baal, his former boss. The Balseraph is NOT combat oriented and will work with the PC's for a time in order to harness their destructive natures towards appeasing his master. If the PC's kill him, they'll still have to deal with the Djinn. This time, they don't have the benefit of the demon's Dissonance Binding attunement to help them. The PC's meet a Balseraph Knight of Nybbas (what a prize!) who's in town discrediting a local war hero. If the PC's kill him, the war hero's reputation is saved. The "hero" was single handedly responsible for hundreds of atrocities against civilians. (See the Prophecy for an example.) He even wore the skins of mutilated POWs for fun. The military classified this info and declared him a victim of war trauma, so the locals didn't know of his crimes, just that he once saved 6 men from a helicopter wreck. If he is still held in public favor, Baal puts the finishing touches on finally making the soldiers highly decorated tomb an infernal tether of war. What's that? Michael and Eli aren't happy that the PC's destroyed the only opposition to this effort? Hmmm.... You don't have to resort to tricks like this always, just once in a while, to keep them a little less trigger happy and a little more interested in "the big picture". Nothing gets a message across better than an archangel chewing you out. I'm pretty darn sure that Michael is more intimidating than any drill sergeant the marines have ever turned out. - ---John J Maurer wrote: > > Here's a question to GMs that I would like disucssed. I have noticed a > problem in my game with a Seraphim of Michael and a Malakite of Eli. Once > either of them finds out someone is a demon, they immediately go balistic > and kill (or try to) kill it. This ruins so many interesting possibility > for roleplaying. Any ideas how to fix it? == --Querent USELESS FACT: The name Led Zeppelin was first coined by Keith Moon, drummer for The Who. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:02:38 -0800 (PST) From: Querent Subject: Re: IN> Other Rafael Stuff There isn't an official canon answer. You could get an IO account and check the playtest files, or wait for Liber Reliqarum to be released and see if it's in there. Unfortunately, even if it's in there, no one can tell you because the book hasn't been released. I'd say, wait for it, and if it's not there, ask again later. (Don't read anything into this, I don't have an IO account so I don't know either way.) - ---Armand wrote: > > This question may have already been answered in either one of the > sourcebooks or elsewhere: What about Rafael's trumpet? > > To me, the easy solution is that it was lost in the fight with Legion. > However, if it is not, then what does canon have to say on the subject. == --Querent USELESS FACT: The name Led Zeppelin was first coined by Keith Moon, drummer for The Who. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:04:32 -0500 (EST) From: "York H. Dobyns" Subject: Re: IN> Remnants Kevin Walsh writes: [attribution lost for double-quoted text] [...] >> Or at least that's how I justify the Djinn resonance being based >> on Will, while the Cherub one is Perception. > >Is it? Since it didn't say specifically in the description of the Djinn >resonance under the Djinn, I assumed that the mechanics of establishing >the link were the same as for Cherubim. In the general rules under Resonance, before we get to the descriptions of the Choirs and Bands, IN states explicitly that angelic resonances are usually based on Perception, demonic resonances on Will. Since some exceptions are explicitly noted in the individual Choir or Band descriptions, I have presumed that the general rule is intended to apply unless explicitly overruled by the specific description. Therefore, since the Djinn description doesn't specify that the resonance roll to form a link is based on Perception, the default "demonic resonance" rule implies that it requires a Will roll -- even if their subsequent *uses* of the link require Perception rolls. (So they need both Celestial Attributes to use their Resonance effectively, instead of being able to concentrate on just one the way most celestials can? Well, why do you *think* Djinn are always whining about how tough life is?) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:14:18 -0800 (PST) From: Querent Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes If you haven't read Good Omens, DO! It best illustrates that the lines between the divine and the fallen are not as black and white as some think. In the end, the only real difference between demons and angels is politics. - ---Armand wrote: > > >So, how many of us on this mailing list actually play in a campaign, either > >as a GM or a PC? > > > >To start with myself, I am a GM and run a campaign with only angelic PC´s > >and the location is London, England (although the PC´s are currently in > >Paris, France). > > I haven't started a campaign just yet. I'm still awaiting the IPG. When > it does come out, then the campaign that I'm will, likewise, be set in > London and the surrounding area. This mostly has to do with "Good Omens" > by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman. Most of my roleplaying group has read > this. I don't think that I would like to have any of them playing > Aziraphel or Crowley. Having them as NPC's should solve that dilema. > > Mosly, at this point, I'm running a lot of WoD stuff. Hopefully I'll be > able to wrap up one of them by the time the IPG comes out. (Does anyone > have an ETA on that?) > > Armand, Angel of Hair Dressers > > > > > == --Querent USELESS FACT: The name Led Zeppelin was first coined by Keith Moon, drummer for The Who. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:45:01 -0800 From: Armand Subject: Re: IN> Other Rafael Stuff >There isn't an official canon answer. You could get an IO account and >check the playtest files, or wait for Liber Reliqarum to be released >and see if it's in there. Unfortunately, even if it's in there, no >one can tell you because the book hasn't been released. I'd say, wait >for it, and if it's not there, ask again later. > >(Don't read anything into this, I don't have an IO account so I don't >know either way.) > > If there isn't a canon location for Rafael's trumpet, then what's the consensus on a probable location/new owner? I'd really like to hear from anyone on the issue. Just as a tack on idea; what about other major angelic artifacts? Yes, Liber Reliqarim isn't out yet, but let's play with the idea. Do the Archangels/Demon princes make a habit of keeping their major artifacts on their person, or is there an angelic/diabolic armory? Armand ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:45:54 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Remnants > Kevin Walsh writes: > >Is it? Since it didn't say specifically in the description of the Djinn > >resonance under the Djinn, I assumed that the mechanics of establishing > >the link were the same as for Cherubim. > > In the general rules under Resonance, before we get to the descriptions > of the Choirs and Bands, IN states explicitly that angelic resonances > are usually based on Perception, demonic resonances on Will. I noted that at the time I first made the assumption. And I made the assumption before seeing the Lilim, since I read the Band descriptions in the order in which they appeared in the book. Since some > exceptions are explicitly noted in the individual Choir or Band > descriptions, I have presumed that the general rule is intended to apply > unless explicitly overruled by the specific description. Therefore, > since the Djinn description doesn't specify that the resonance roll to > form a link is based on Perception, the default "demonic resonance" rule > implies that it requires a Will roll I reckoned it was an erratum initially, and subsequently forgot about it. I didn't see how using Will to attune to someone like that was sensible, especially since the effects were on yourself, not the person you were attuning yourself to. As for Djinn of Lust, Factions and Theft, I pointed to Cherubs of the Wind. (Djinn of Fire do seem harder to justify, in retrospect.) And I ascribed the difference in Dissonance to the fact that their resonance isn't permanent. - -- even if their subsequent *uses* of > the link require Perception rolls. (So they need both Celestial > Attributes to use their Resonance effectively, instead of being able to > concentrate on just one the way most celestials can? Well, why do you > *think* Djinn are always whining about how tough life is?) > I don't recall that being specified in the book. And Cherubs need to roll Will to remove attunements in any case. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:50:12 -0800 From: Armand Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes >If you haven't read Good Omens, DO! It best illustrates that the >lines between the divine and the fallen are not as black and white as >some think. In the end, the only real difference between demons and >angels is politics. You forgot the other difference, demons have better groomed wings. Armand ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:54:33 +0000 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes At 16:22 16/01/98 +0000, you wrote: >> >> So, how many of us on this mailing list actually play in a campaign, either >> as a GM or a PC? I ran a set of four sessions last summer (when I more or less had a captive player-base for a couple of weeks) which were all set in London (or in Whitehall to be precise), which went down pretty well. I'd love to run a full-scale tabeltop campaign, and I have a few ideas (which one I'll work on depends on what sort of characters people decide they want to play) but the the group I know who are willing to let me try can only really arrange to meet up about 4 times a year due to being scattered in the UK -- so it'll be pretty slow. I did suggest it to the guys I RP with locally, but was reminded that the reason we are currently playing Ars Magica was because one of them hates games set in the modern day real world and I am allergic to fantasy worlds ;-) Still, I can work out my demon plots in an Ars Magica setting type.. but it isn't quite the same. jo ps. Baal wants to nuke France? Where can I sign up?! :0 - ---------- "I like getting into hot water, it keeps me clean." G. K. Chesterton jhart@btinternet.com -- http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~jhart/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:00:58 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes > > I haven't started a campaign just yet. I'm still awaiting the IPG. When > it does come out, then the campaign that I'm will, likewise, be set in > London and the surrounding area. This mostly has to do with "Good Omens" > by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman. Most of my roleplaying group has read > this. I don't think that I would like to have any of them playing > Aziraphel or Crowley. Having them as NPC's should solve that dilema. > You might want to amend the bit in Good Omens where it says "Hastur and Ligur were Dukes of Hell. Crowley wasn't even a local councillor", given his ability to do more or less anything he felt like. Of course, Celestials in general were far more powerful in Good Omens than in In Nomine. Personally, one of the bits I liked most about Good Omens was the effect of being given a Word (as happened to the Antichrist, his Hellhound, and the M25). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:09:11 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Last Night's Quotes > >If you haven't read Good Omens, DO! It best illustrates that the > >lines between the divine and the fallen are not as black and white as > >some think. In the end, the only real difference between demons and > >angels is politics. > > You forgot the other difference, demons have better groomed wings. > They dance as well. (Though it's not really dancing. It's more like the British entry in the Eurovision.) It scares me that I can paraphrase this stuff so well when I haven't looked at it for four months or so. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:20:39 -0800 (PST) From: Querent Subject: Re: IN> Other Rafael Stuff I would say it depends on the case. I can hardly imagine Laurence without his sword. After all, he's the Archangel of the Sword. It serves as a tremendous sense of identity. Also, it hardly seems an ever-vigilant-against-the-darkness sort of angel would leave it somewhere else. We know that Jean and Vapula both have large collections of gadgets, both mundane and relics. I don't imagine that Eli would need to keep that modelling clay on his person all of the time.. (You know, the stuff he toyed with when he was asked to create life forms for Earth.) What about Baal's map? Just ask any James Bond villain, you can't be truly infamous without a big map. Baal's map has little LED's in different colors which automaticly updates with all perceived celestial activity. Every time one of his scouts report in, Baal's map updates itself. Baal would definitely keep that at home. What about Alaemon's attache case which holds documentation on the True Story of every covered up event in history? No one seems to know where that's at...funny that... - ---Armand wrote: > Just as a tack on idea; what about other major angelic artifacts? Yes, > Liber Reliqarim isn't out yet, but let's play with the idea. Do the > Archangels/Demon princes make a habit of keeping their major artifacts on > their person, or is there an angelic/diabolic armory? == --Querent USELESS FACT: The name Led Zeppelin was first coined by Keith Moon, drummer for The Who. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #570 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.