From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Jan 18 21:34:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA25008 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:34:46 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id VAA12827 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:31:50 -0600 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:31:50 -0600 Message-Id: <199801190331.VAA12827@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #573 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, January 18 1998 Volume 01 : Number 573 In this digest: IN> New Resource - Kyrio/Shed Possessing Forces IN> Old Testament or New Testament IN> New Archangel: Sophia RE: IN> Who are you, anyway? Re: IN> New Archangel: Sophia IN> Fallen IN> TNATC Movie Trailer (at last!) Re: IN> Old Testament or New Testament RE: IN> Movie Trailer: Partners RE: IN> Happy New Year's Re: IN> Re: Wow Cool Game, plus vampires and balserapth quibble Re: IN> Movie Trailer: Partners Re: IN> New Resource - Kyrio/Shed Possessing Forces Re: IN> Superiors: Old Testement or New Testement Re: IN> New Archangel: Sophia Re: IN> Old Testament or New Testament IN> Fair Exchange - act 2 IN> Re: New Archangel Re: IN> Re: New Archangel IN> Agapiel Afterthought IN> Re: New Archangel (Sophia) Re: IN> Re: New Archangel (Sophia) Re: IN> Re: New Archangel (Sophia) IN> Saints and stuff Re: IN> Superiors: Old Testement or New Testement Re: IN> Saints and stuff Re: IN> Saints and stuff IN> Sophia, Angel of Wisdom ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 12:13:35 +1100 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: IN> New Resource - Kyrio/Shed Possessing Forces Dear List I asked one of my Kyrio players what he wanted to get from his experience point yesterday. He said that he wanted an extra Force, so that he could possess two normal humans at the same time, but didn't care if he got the stats for it. We discussed the thought of a "Possession Capacity" resource, which would give a Kyrio or Shed extra capacity to possess beings, but didn't give them the advantages of extra Forces. After a while I ruled against it, but thought I would float the idea, so other players can pester their Ref's with it :) . Thanking you for your indulgence. Regards, Peter. Reply to peterf@wr.com.au What does the Lord require of you, but to do justice and to love kindness and to walk humbly with your God ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 21:19:14 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Old Testament or New Testament >>>I know it is a bit of a useless question, as the Bible as we have it isn't a true guide to IN Heaven, but the thought came up in play yesterday that some AA's seem more Old Testement and other New Testement.<<< That's probably accurate, considering that the New Testament is all about Jesus, who has not by any means been accepted by the majority of the Archangels as having actually been sent by God. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 21:19:12 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> New Archangel: Sophia First, a couple of comments on canon -- not in any way saying you have to alter Sophia because of canon, but just that you might want to be aware of these details, so you know whether you want to ignore the canon, or take it into account with some explanation. 1) Sophia is also the name of the Angel of Enlightenment, an Elohite who once served Raphael. (Yes, I based that on Pistis Sophia, which seems to be the same source you used.) 2) Andrealphus was the Archangel of Love before he Fell, so he might have a strong opinion about Sophia... As for the writeup, I like the concept and the Choir attunements. As far as rites and her Word, she seems to have a lot of overlap with both Novalis and Eli. The political opinions expressed by the various Archangels were a bit inconsistent with their personalities as written in the official universe, but would certainly work if your universe has the "brightness knob" turned up, as Beth would say. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 22:12:46 +0000 From: Nathaniel Eliot Subject: RE: IN> Who are you, anyway? > >Note - I never said that Kobal wanted him to fall, just that he'd > >love to get his hands on him. Any angel who can make puns work > >for Heaven is a definate problem for Kobal. > > On reflection, its probably more amusing if he doesn't fall ;-) > Picture it. A manically punning angel, in a host of seraphim who > want to take everything literally. Its beautiful. Goombert is still a Seraphim. Maybe Kobal likes him where he is... (Note - I am *not* doing a writeup of Goombert, solely because the requisite number of puns in his writeup would give me a small aneurism. Anybody else is free to try, though...) Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 23:18:13 +0000 From: Nathaniel Eliot Subject: Re: IN> New Archangel: Sophia > 1) Sophia is also the name of the Angel of Enlightenment, an Elohite > who once served Raphael. (Yes, I based that on Pistis Sophia, which > seems to be the same source you used.) Ummm - Enlightenment belongs to Litheroy... > 2) Andrealphus was the Archangel of Love before he Fell, so he might > have a strong opinion about Sophia... Is this official now? Or are you speculating? Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 23:39:36 -0500 (EST) From: Kim Foster Subject: IN> Fallen I just wanted to reccomend the movie Fallen as an excellent source of inspiration for In Nomine. In particular for for a dark or mostly Soilder oriented game. Very well done and quite disturbing..... I know violence doesn't solve all problems... But it sure feels good! Felicia:DS3:Vampire Savior ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 98 00:04:53 -0500 From: David Wood Subject: IN> TNATC Movie Trailer (at last!) By Request... (Okay, it was by ONE request...) It has been added to My Own Private Blasphemy, but the page has not yet been updated on the server. (Damned Domain Name Severer [sic]...) ===== [Fade from black, exterior shot of a medieval village, circa 9th century. People are running around, roofs are on fire, and there are peasants, men in abnormally bright and shiny armor, and animals lying dead in the streets.] VOICEOVER: It was a time of upheaval and intolerance, [Turn and follow a fairly large man in peasant's garb running out of the village and into the woods] VOICEOVER: Of the death of myths and legends, [He meets up with and hugs a thin, short woman in a small green dress; she has dark hair and pointed ears.] FORREST: It's not safe here any more, we have to move on. DEIDRE: I ...can't, I have to remain here. This is where my ...family... FORREST: That's why you can't stay here. They're already gone. DEIDRE: But only in one sense... [Dissolve to battlefield where Forrest is confronting a knight] VOICEOVER: Of the ending of friendships, KNIGHT: Tell us where she is. If you stand against us, you will die. FORREST: No. A love like ours is worth dying for. VOICEOVER: And lives. FORREST: And killing for. [Dissolve to another night scene, Forrest and Deidre running. Behind them follow six or seven knights in the oddly glowing armor.] VOICEOVER: It was a time of war, DEIDRE: You must leave me, they will not stop until they have destroyed me. FORREST: Never! [Several knights morph into flickering, shadowy shapes which fly ahead and catch up with them] VOICEOVER: Waged by the army of God on the creations of Man, [Deidre screams; Forrest transforms into a glowing winged bull and attempts to engage the shapes] VOICEOVER: And when brothers were forced to fight, [Forrest administers the "killing blow" to one of the black shadowy things and changes back, wounded.] FORREST: Let's go. VOICEOVER: They did so with all the passion they had. [Dissolve to Deidre being run through with a sword.] FORREST: NOOOO! [Attacks those around him, several join together and fight back.] VOICEOVER: That war brought a premature end to one of the most noble romances created in Heaven or Earth. [Hold several seconds on Forrest and Deidre on the ground, hands outstretched but not touching, fade to black.] VOICEOVER: After more than a millenium, that final chapter is about to be written. [Jump cut abruptly through white screen to the 20th century, large city. A large, sneering man who looks an awful lot like Forrest, wearing a tattered T-shirt and scruffy jeans, walks angrily down the street. He sees a bum, sees the fresh bills in his hand, and grabs him by the collar.] FORREST: Which way did they go? Which way? [Forrest, still holding him, throws him against a wall; there is a crack. Forrest shrugs, lets go, and stomps off, the body slumps to the ground revealing a fresh, round red spot on the wall.] VOICEOVER: But the story's ending has gained one hell of a twist. [Jump-cut to Deidre (or a businesswoman who looks very much like her) sits at a table in a scruffy looking apartment, shaking her head.] DEIDRE: No, I can't believe it. He was never like that. JOSHUA: Believe it. He is now. [Jump-cut to Deidre and other man driving off quickly in a sports car, Forrest behind them firing a gun.] BORIS: Old boyfriend of yours? DEIDRE: He still is, I think. He's changed. BORIS: Uh-huh. Falling does that to some people. DEIDRE: Falling?! [Jump-cut to dark warehouse. Wooden crates without people in them are stack four and five high. Deidre is sneaking around alone.] VOICEOVER: The angel that protected her is now the demon who is stalking her, which raises the question... [As Deidre is wandering the warehouse, the camera pans with her and onto Forrest in the background. She turns.] FORREST: It's been a long time. Did you miss me? [He transforms into a nightmarish winged monster-bull; she screams; jump-cut to black.] VOICEOVER: "Can this story possibly have a happy ending?" VOICEOVER: The Nymph And The Cherub. Coming soon to a gaming table near you. This adventure has not yet been rated... - -David http://www.bluecrab.org/members/dwood/ Demon of Obfuscation in service to Malphas ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 01:45:43 EST From: Heretic103 Subject: Re: IN> Old Testament or New Testament In a message dated 98-01-17 21:26:17 EST, you write: << That's probably accurate, considering that the New Testament is all about Jesus, who has not by any means been accepted by the majority of the Archangels as having actually been sent by God. >> Where did you find this little tidbit I heard awhile back that in the original Croc Jesus was an archangel and I find it hard to find that the archangels would forget about Jesus after all that dying for sin stuff ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 02:49:53 EST From: "Perry M. Lloyd" Subject: RE: IN> Movie Trailer: Partners >The Bal bursts into a makeup room where Tryphena is having her hair and >face done. In the corner, Zaccur is flipping through, you guessed it, a >chainsaw catalog -- or maybe a copy of _PlayShedite_, it's hard to tell. Oh God, you didn't. Oh, for the love of... you did. First "plucking" and now -- PLAYSHEDITE?! - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd "The humans do not start from that direct perception of Him which we, unhappily, cannot avoid. They have never known that ghastly luminosity, that stabbing and searing glare which makes background of permanent pain to our lives." -Screwtape (From "The Screwtape Letters", by C.S. Lewis) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 03:22:46 EST From: "Perry M. Lloyd" Subject: RE: IN> Happy New Year's AA Beth writes: >At 2:45 PM -0500 1/9/98, Perry M. Lloyd wrote: >[...] >>1998, baby! Father Kronos keeps on ticking, as we just keep on licking! >>or something... >> >>-Perry > >And for how long have you been a Soldier of Lust...? Now, now... that would be *telling*. >Hoppy Newt Year to y'all, too. AHHHHH!!!!! She said NEWT!!!! - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd "The humans do not start from that direct perception of Him which we, unhappily, cannot avoid. They have never known that ghastly luminosity, that stabbing and searing glare which makes background of permanent pain to our lives." -Screwtape (From "The Screwtape Letters", by C.S. Lewis) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 03:34:33 EST From: "Perry M. Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Wow Cool Game, plus vampires and balserapth quibble >> >> >> Balseraph of Lust >> > >> >You have thought this out, haven't you? >> >> What? No, I just ran through the book and found the goodies. Why, >> what's wrong with it? :) >> >Nothing. It's just that it resembles the description of the Kiss in V:tM >so much it's uncanny. Well, V:TM would be "uncanonny"... heh, heh, heh... sorry. :) But you're right, it does resemble V:TM a lot. But, I would also say that V:TM resembles Anne Rice a *lot*. A lot of my vampire concept does come from V:TM. It wouldn't surprise me if V:TM *hasn't* affected the conceptualization of vampires for the public to a great degree. But, yes, I AM cupable (sp?) for having the V:TM vampire stuck in my head. Same goes for werewolves, I'm afraid, but not as much.. - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd "The humans do not start from that direct perception of Him which we, unhappily, cannot avoid. They have never known that ghastly luminosity, that stabbing and searing glare which makes background of permanent pain to our lives." -Screwtape (From "The Screwtape Letters", by C.S. Lewis) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 02:41:24 -0600 From: tom timberlake Subject: Re: IN> Movie Trailer: Partners Perry M. Lloyd wrote: > > >The Bal bursts into a makeup room where Tryphena is having her hair and > >face done. In the corner, Zaccur is flipping through, you guessed it, a > >chainsaw catalog -- or maybe a copy of _PlayShedite_, it's hard to tell. > > Oh God, you didn't. Oh, for the love of... you did. First "plucking" > and now -- PLAYSHEDITE?! > Just don't think about what the centerfold layouts would look like *g*. tom ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 03:47:29 -0500 (EST) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> New Resource - Kyrio/Shed Possessing Forces On Sun, 18 Jan 1998, Peter Frederick wrote: > We discussed the thought of a "Possession Capacity" resource, which would > give a Kyrio or Shed extra capacity to possess beings, but didn't give them > the advantages of extra Forces. After a while I ruled against it, but > thought I would float the idea, so other players can pester their Ref's with > it :) . I could see it. Forces are 10 points (and give you 12 points worth of characteristics!)...I would suggest making it a Resource costing 6 points/level (mildly overpriced, but not too bad), with the standard limit of 6 levels. I don't know if I'd want to allow it...not because it's too powerful, but because I'd be afraid a Kyrio player would overdo it and neglect buying regular Forces instead... Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Married to Rev. Unibomber on 11/15/96 - be jealous ;) Meow! And finally, a special message to anyone who thinks I give a damn... \|/ ____ \|/ ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 04:21:51 -0500 From: Ni Ke Hsin Subject: Re: IN> Superiors: Old Testement or New Testement >Our breakdown, as far as we went, was Old - Michael, Gabriel, Dominic and >David and New - Novalis, Marc and Lawrence. I have trouble seeing Marc as a New Testament kind of angel, given Jesus's antipathy for money-changers and rich men. I'd definitely put him in the Old Testament. There's more to the OT than "an eye for an eye." In fact, a much bigger part of it was the Convenant (read: Contract) between God and the Israelites. If they follow the laws, they get a lot of material blessings. Sounds like Marc's stuff. Ni Ke Hsin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 04:25:02 -0500 From: Ni Ke Hsin Subject: Re: IN> New Archangel: Sophia >The political opinions expressed by the various Archangels were a >bit inconsistent with their personalities as written in the official >universe, but would certainly work if your universe has the "brightness >knob" turned up, as Beth would say. > Not so much the brightness as the contrast. My demons are dark enough that I can afford for the angels to get along a little better without turning the campaign into In Nomine: The Disney Animated Film. Thanks for the feedback. Ni Ke Hsin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 04:30:18 -0500 From: Ni Ke Hsin Subject: Re: IN> Old Testament or New Testament > >and I find it hard to find that the archangels would forget about Jesus after >all that dying for sin stuff Dying for the world's sins was Jesus's take on it. Who knows what the other residence of Heaven are saying. I'd want Yves's explanation before I made a decision. But whether the sins of the world or forgiven or not is a little remote from the In Nomine battle, which seems to be over the sin itself and its proximate effects. Even if the axe murderer is going to be forgiven in his future jail-cell conversion, the angels may want to stop him from creating more havoc before that time. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 09:34:35 +0000 From: Jo Hart Subject: IN> Fair Exchange - act 2 Hi Evan! (I forgot to mention that ;) ) Fair Exchange -- Act 2 ** The Court of Lust. A large sparse room with a platform at one end; all the fittings and fixtures are filigree ironmongery. The lights are low and a Sisters of Mercy track with a thumping bassline is on continuous loop. The ceiling is hung with drapery and a large banner reads 'Make love not war'. Andrealphas is dressed as an anglican vicar[1] and sprawls on a wooden throne on the platform, inspecting his nails. Zsa-Zsa Gabor, a motherly habbalite advisor, is at his right hand and good looking male-type courtier demons are fawning. Exotic dancers and a sword swallower perform, unnoticed. ** ANDRE: I suppose that was interesting in an unimaginative Sunday-evening airline steward kind of way. Who's next, auntie? HABB: ** hungarian accent ** Vell dahlink, your next supplicant tonight eez Audrey Miles who vishes to reqvest some crutches for her aged mother. ANDRE: ** emoting insincerity ** How touching. ** A couple of macho-djinn-in-leather (tm) toss a damned soul down onto her knees on the floor in front of the dais. She is wearing too much make-up and a very obvious platinum-blonde wig. ** ANDRE: Oh its you again. What a charming surprise, and how unexpected. Whats your name this time? AUDREY: ** looks up, swooning ** HABB: I sink she must haff slipped in after I checked ze list. ANDRE: Well something certainly slipped in, I'm sure. You were 'Do-me Debbie' last week. Has someone done you yet? AUDREY: Audrey Miles, master. I wanted to ask for.. ANDRE: Crutches, yes. Your mother died 17 years ago and believe me, she already has a very adequate pair. You're getting awfully good at this kneeling thing, but I suppose you must get a lot of practice. ** courtiers titter politely ** AUDREY: ** whimper** I just needed to see you again. ANDRE: Boring, take her away. ** 'Audrey' is dragged off reluctantly. Another Djinn nudges Lilim1 forwards. ** HABB: Zis next von is Dizzy, who haz been sent here by Kobal to learn some better manners. ANDRE: Now you do look vaguely familiar. I see you've been sent here from Dark Humour. Say something funny then. LIL1: ** silence -- courtiers titter more ** ANDRE: ** mock sympathy ** Oh dear, you are a sad case. How fortunate for you that I feel one of my little giving and caring turns coming on. [aside: Yes, really I do.] ** he walks down to Lilim1, tilting her face up towards him. His voice is soft like smoke. ** Have you forgotten what you are, little Dizzy? Why don't you tell me what you really want...? ** Lights dim around everyone except Lilim1 who glows with a soft pink light, and the music quietens enough for a piping flute to be heard. She swallows hard and begins to shiver after a moment. Then slowly she runs her hands across her own body and her face relaxes, mouth falling part- open, she begins to move and gyrate to the still-audible beat... as the lights come up and the music returns she reaches out a hand towards Andrealphas, desperation in her eyes ** ANDRE: No don't touch me, I don't know where you've been. I think thats settled, but thats no excuse for bad manners. What do you say? LIL1: Thank you, master. ANDRE: Someone chain her to a railing or something, I don't want her following me around. ** he beckons to the sword swallower ** You. SS: ** removes the sword which turns out to be 3' long, and bows low ** ANDRE: Oooh, very impressive. You're hired. Come and chase me later. ** The Djinn handcuff Lilim1 to one of the railings and the scene fades ** - --- ** A room in pitch blackness. There is a scuffle and thud, and muffled swearing in 2 male voices ** VOICE1: Blimey guv, 'ow the 'ell did that get there? VOICE2: Never mind that. How the hell did /you/ get there? You were supposed to be distracting the nightwatch while I did the switch. VOICE1: You wot? VOICE2: Don't tell me you even managed to screw up a simple thing like that? ** another thud ** Oww. VOICE1: Nah, nah, that was sorted guv. Not a problem. But you never gave me the signal, then 'e went on a walkabout so I fort I'd nip on down and do the switch meself so's to save you time! ** A torch flicks on, to show a store-room in the British Museum vaults. Shelves are stacked with books, objets d'art, vases, rocks and beer cans. A mummy case and bits of statue are piled in a heap. Two men are wearing balaclavas, and behind them is a goods lift. The man holding the torch takes off his mask. It is Sam ** SAM: You did what? When? You'd bloody better not have switched them after I got down there, Meths. VOICE1: You wot? SAM: No-one told me we had two fakes! VOICE1: Some tart gave it to me. So when I figgered you got 'eld up... SAM: Oh give me that! ** grabs a small pewter jug from the other man and plays the torchlight over it, comparing it with an identical one he is carrying ** They all look the same. VOICE1: Did I do sommit wrong? SAM: I bloody hope not. Come on, we don't have time to go back, the one I've got is the business, and this is the fake. Next time you drive the getaway car. ** Sam tosses the second jug into the mummy case and flicks the torch off again. There is another thud and then a loud bang, followed by the sound of something shattering ** SAM: Shit. VOICE3: An uninvited visitor? How nice of you to join us. ** More footsteps and the full lights come on. Sam is surrounded by grinning calabites. ** SAM: Now lets not be hasty. Those horns, they're plastic right? CAL1: Wrong. SAM: Hah, you almost had me there. I'm sure we can sort out this little misunderstanding. We're all reasonable people, right? CAL2: Wrong. CAL1: My boss is the Prince of Theft. He don't like it when people try to half-inch his property, does he Spiggs? CAL2: No, he don't. SAM: This is for some TV show, isn't it? You've got those cameras well hidden. We're just going to walk out of here and go to the studio, right? CAL2: Wrong. ** Sam is manhandled into the goods lift by the demons. The doors close behind them with a *ping* and an electronic female voice says 'Going DOWN' ** - --- ** The court of lust again. This time the lights are brighter and the music has been turned off -- its obviously not in use at the moment. A djinn is sweeping the floor and a few other demons are drinking coffee and swapping make-up tips. Lilim1 is still chained to a railing. ** LIL1: Why don't any of you understand? It doesn't have to be like this! You don't all have to be slaves, always fighting for his attention! HABB: Such silliness! Vot else should ve be? Zis is ze vay of things. LIL1: Yeah, the workers get oppressed by the capitalist scum! You could go on strike. HABB: Zis is vot you'd do at home zen, dahlink? ** smirks -- a few other demons look round and grin ** LIL1: Sure. The boss loves it. He's really into trade unions. HABB: And ve are not. Zis is demons of lust you are talking about, if we went on strike zen who would see to that, huh? LIL1: Don't you get it? All you guys do is go around fulfilling other people's lusts. ** the demons nod and shrug, they are starting to gather around her ** LIL1: ** getting into her stride ** But if you fulfil someone's lust then it isn't lust any more! You can still go on strike for better working conditions and not betray your job! HABB: Clever. Clever. She may haff a point here. Go on, dahlink. LIL1: Throw off the chains and handcuffs of oppression! And the little leather thongs which give you friction burns when its raining! HABB: I like zis idea of ze class war! Shall ve maybe try a leetle strike? ** demons stand up and cheer loudly. One of them pulls down the banner and scribbles on it until it reads 'make war not love' and they march round the room, hoisting it high ** HABB: ** takes out a small shrill whistle and blows it ** Alright, brothers and sisters. Everybody out! Ve vithdraw our labour as of now! A fair night's work for a fair night's pay! ** The demons march out chanting the Internationale, all except for Lilim1 who is still chained to the railing ** - --- ** Cellars of the British Museum. A small pen-torch plays around the room and a shadowy hand reaches into the mummy case and takes something out. Then the scene fades to black ** - --- [1] If anglican vicars could afford decent tailors. - ---------- "I like getting into hot water, it keeps me clean." G. K. Chesterton jhart@btinternet.com -- http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~jhart/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 03:45:34 -0600 From: ehp Subject: IN> Re: New Archangel While the write up seems all right, and I have no immediate comments on attunements, Sophia does have one minor issue... Sophia means Wisdom in greed. Agape is love, or as it has become in some modern writing, divine love. Why not Agapiel? Evan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 05:12:32 -0500 From: Ni Ke Hsin Subject: Re: IN> Re: New Archangel At 3:45 AM -0600 1/18/98, ehp wrote: > While the write up seems all right, and I have no immediate comments >on attunements, Sophia does have one minor issue... > Sophia means Wisdom in greed. Agape is love, or as it has become in >some modern writing, divine love. > Why not Agapiel? >Evan Your typo had me scratching my head for a few minutes. Your point is taken, though I'm not sure the two concepts are so far apart in reality. In fact, I mentioned that in the write up. And I'm not sure the mixing of Greek roots with Hebrew tags is very euphonious. Ni Ke Hsin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 05:18:23 -0500 From: Ni Ke Hsin Subject: IN> Agapiel Afterthought At 3:45 AM -0600 1/18/98, ehp wrote: > While the write up seems all right, and I have no immediate comments >on attunements, Sophia does have one minor issue... > Sophia means Wisdom in greed. Agape is love, or as it has become in >some modern writing, divine love. > Why not Agapiel? I had toyed with various Greek terms for love, include agape, eros, and whatever the noun form that gives us the philo- prefix is. I rejected them because, for purposes of my campaign, her Word covers them all. I liked the sound of Sophia, and I also liked the association. Ni Ke Hsin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 14:28:20 +0000 (GMT) From: James Palmer Subject: IN> Re: New Archangel (Sophia) A nice idea, but given Sophia's name and the long held notion of her being the wisdom of God in the Orthodox church, wouldn't it make more sense for her simply to be the female aspect of Yves? After all, it seems a bit odd for him to use a male vessel *all* the time. "Our strength is as the strength of ten, because there are ten of us." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:15:39 -0500 From: Frank Lazar Subject: Re: IN> Re: New Archangel (Sophia) At 02:28 PM +0000 01/18/1998, James Palmer wrote: >A nice idea, but given Sophia's name and the long held notion of her being >the wisdom of God in the Orthodox church, wouldn't it make more sense for >her simply to be the female aspect of Yves? After all, it seems a bit odd >for him to use a male vessel *all* the time. > Then again what seems to be the unique feauture of Yvves is that it always looks the same all the time, no matter where its found. Yvves may not even fall into the category of posessing celestial or corporeal forms, there is only the singular form of Yvves present wherever Destiny deems it be. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | _ | | We are dreamers, shapers, singers and makers. /_\ | | We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, // \\ | | Crystal and scanner, holographic demons, \\ //___\\ | | And invocations of equations. \\ // \\ | | \\__// \\ | | These are the tools we employ. And we know... many things. \\ | | \\ | | | Frank Lazar http://www.interactive.net/~fmlazar | \\ | - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:17:50 -0500 From: Brandon Quina Subject: Re: IN> Re: New Archangel (Sophia) > A nice idea, but given Sophia's name and the long held notion of her > being the wisdom of God in the Orthodox church, wouldn't it make more > sense for her simply to be the female aspect of Yves? After all, it > seems a bit odd for him to use a male vessel *all* the time. He dosnt have a male vessel. He /always/ shows up as an elderly man, radiating calm and good cheer and spirtual strength. Even on the celestial plane, he is an old man with greying hair, a friendly smile, and an aura of friendlyness. - -- (lore@tmgbbs.com) \\/// Brandon Lance Quina (x x) ICQ Number: 6809944 ---ooO(_)Ooo--- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:35:13 -0500 From: Jesse Subject: IN> Saints and stuff >It's the same with human saints. *You*, all by yourself, can honor and >pray for the intercession of any deceased person that you believe to be in >Heaven, should you be so inclined. But only the canonized saints get >shrines and individual feast days; everyone else gets crowded together on >All Saints' Day. Of course this stricture against the cult of saints is not always followed. The Holy Mother is the best example. Did you know that she is the patron saint of the New World? There have been many cults of Mary in the Catholic Church over the years and more pop up on a regular basis. Since Mary is the Holy Mother her cults are usally looked over by the Church. Voodoo is another example of saint worship. While Voodoo practisioners are Catholic they also recognize a pantheon of saints, angels and devils unknown to most Catholics. St. Patrick and St. Micheal (yes, the archangel) have had cults for a long time now. So how does this apply to In Nomine? Well one of these cults could have the protection of their patron saint/archangel. Dominic and Laurence might order a group of angels to investigate this matter. Once the truth is discovered the PCs have some hard poltical choices to make. (1) Do we betray the archangel of one of our teammates to Dominic or do we risk Judgement and hide the information. (2) What kind of poltical effects will come out of this? Which archangel will loss face in the (many) eyes of the Seraph Council? Do the players want Dominic to have more power? (3) WHat if this was a setup? - -Jesse X-Disclaimer: The DCUNS is not responsible for the content of this message ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 12:00:38 -0500 From: Jesse Subject: Re: IN> Superiors: Old Testement or New Testement >Our breakdown, as far as we went, was Old - Michael, Gabriel, Dominic and >David and New - Novalis, Marc and Lawrence. Of course Gabriel and Michael, whom you put in the Old Testement, are both mentioned in the New. Ironic - -Jesse X-Disclaimer: The DCUNS is not responsible for the content of this message ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 09:36:37 -0800 From: Armand Subject: Re: IN> Saints and stuff > Voodoo is another example of saint worship. While Voodoo practisioners >are Catholic they also recognize a pantheon of saints, angels and devils >unknown to most Catholics. St. Patrick and St. Micheal (yes, the >archangel) have had cults for a long time now. I'm sorry, I saw the above and the hairs on the back of my neck started on the rise. While most voodoun would call themselves Catholic, it is a loose affiliation at best. When the Catholic church was subjigating the British Isles, they would take a statue of the local earth goddess and attach it to the church. Most people at that time had little knowledge of Latin, and could not tell that the sermons were not about the local religion. By the time that Latin became more familiar, the preists began taking the name of the local gods and called them saints. (For fun, read up on St. Brigette) Likewise with the practitioners of Voodoo. Unless the traditional form of god has altered into a world encircling white serpent, then I would have to say that although voodoo does make use of saints, it does not partake of the religion in a church canon way. Just wanted to put my education to good use, Armand ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 13:01:09 -0500 From: Jesse Subject: Re: IN> Saints and stuff >> Voodoo is another example of saint worship. While Voodoo practisioners >>are Catholic they also recognize a pantheon of saints, angels and devils >>unknown to most Catholics. St. Patrick and St. Micheal (yes, the >>archangel) have had cults for a long time now. > >I'm sorry, I saw the above and the hairs on the back of my neck started on >the rise. While most voodoun would call themselves Catholic, it is a loose >affiliation at best. Right. They identify themselves as Catholic. That is what I meant. - -Jesse X-Disclaimer: The DCUNS is not responsible for the content of this message ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 03:21:29 +0000 (GMT) From: Steve Jessop Subject: IN> Sophia, Angel of Wisdom Probably a coincidence that Ni Ke Hsin made Sophia the Archangel of Love, considering the rough idea I have for my campaign... - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sophia, angel of Wisdom Sophia is one of the very oldest of the Seraphim: she was created before even Dominic and the younger archangels. She is not an archangel herself solely because her Word is so directly subservient to Yves. Before the Fall, Samael was the Angel of Light. His duty was to shine the illumination of God onto His creation. He was also Yves' only significant opponent in philosophy, debate, and thought of all kinds. [That may not be even vaguely canonical. Humour me.] Working closely with Samael was Sophia. While he exposed the facts of any matter, it was Sophia whose nature was to help others see the proper way to interpret those facts. But without him, she would have lived in darkness. Without illumination, her wisdom would be meaningless. When Blandine and Beleth became the first angels to love each other, she realised what it was that she had always been feeling: she truly adored Samael as she loved nothing else below God. His Word, his actions, his person. When he returned that love, she felt complete for perhaps the first time. But Samael saw inconsistencies in the Divine plan. He began to interpret these as mistakes, or even deliberate injustices, on the part of God. Sophia was the first to notice the depths to which his doubts ran, but of course she could not bring herself to inform Uriel. Then Samael spoke to her of his rebellion. She was probably the first angel that he directly approached. She was also the angel with the strongest reason to Fall. For a long time, as time was reckoned in Heaven, she seriously considered his words. Meanwhile, he was persuading others to join his Great Crusade. Sophia did not speak out: how could she? Then the day came. Samael and his hordes were ready to rise against the Throne of God, and Sophia was forced to make her choice. Weeping, she turned, and walked out of Samael's Cathedral. Seeing her go, Belial approached her, raising his hand against her, to prevent her from informing the loyal angels of the impending attack. Samael stepped forward, raised Belial above his head in both hands, and slammed him into the floor. Then he embraced Sophia, and walked back to his waiting troops. Sophia went first to Michael, then Uriel. When the now-cursed angel Lucifer, his former name never to be spoken again in Heaven, made his attack, they were ready. Millenia later, Sophia has not yet been seen without tears on her cheeks. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #573 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.