From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Jan 30 13:25:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA01567 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:25:39 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id NAA03619 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:22:15 -0600 Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:22:15 -0600 Message-Id: <199801301922.NAA03619@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #604 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, January 30 1998 Volume 01 : Number 604 In this digest: Re: Word-bound Humans (Was Re: IN> Lilith a human?) Re: IN> Becoming a Superior Re: IN> Connection to the Symphony Re: Canon Doubt And Uncertainty (Re: IN> By Any Other Name) Re: IN> What is canon Re: IN> In Nomine: Hindu Tradition Re: IN> FLUFF: Xtian Food Re: IN> FLUFF: Xtian Food Re: IN> Nitpicking Beth Re: IN> Re: IN History Re: IN> FLUFF: Xtian Food Re: IN> Re: IN History Re: IN> Superiors' Notes: Yves and Kronos Re: IN> Re: IN History Re: IN> What is canon IN> Fluff - poor GM Re: IN> Re: IN History Re: IN> Fluff - poor GM Re: Canon Doubt And Uncertainty (Re: IN> By Any Other Name) Re: IN> What is canon Re: IN> What is canon Re: IN> [A private "I lost your address!" *sigh*] Re: Canon Doubt And Uncertainty (Re: IN> By Any Other Name) Re: IN> Fluff - poor GM Re: IN> Nitpicking Beth Re: IN> Fluff - poor GM Re: IN> Fluff - poor GM Re: IN> test IN> Relic Re: IN> Fluff - poor GM Re: IN> Fluff - poor GM Re: IN> Fluff - poor GM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:27:29 From: Peter Frederick Subject: Re: Word-bound Humans (Was Re: IN> Lilith a human?) At 07:38 PM 27/1/98 -0500, you wrote: >At 5:13 PM -0400 1/27/98, gantr@NKU.EDU wrote: >>On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> >>> (Could the Seraphim Council give a Word to a Saint? Maybe. Maybe not. >>> Maybe they're forbidden. Maybe only a Balseraph as powerful as Lucifer >>> can impose his truth of "I can give a human (semi-human?) a Word if I >>> wanna" on the universe...) >> >>Is it canon that Saints cannot have Words? I don't remember seeing it if >>it is, although I could have missed it. > >I coulda sworn I'd read somewhere that they didn't, but I can't find >it off the top of my head. Mrfl! So I stand by my "Maybe. Maybe not." >O;> I know it's the GM's call in thier own game and all that stuff, but I gotta put my hand up for an affirmative vote on this one. The cross over between Word Bound Angels, representing concepts, and Patron Saints, representing people and places, is too good to pass up. It gives us an Angel of Firefighting and a Patron of Firefighters, an Angel of Medicine and Patrons of Doctors and Nurses and an Archangel of War and a Patron of Warriors. Also for me it is a bonus for the Good Guys. While Hell might just barely let some really useful dead souls back for another go, like Saints, even if just for the PR value, I just can't see Lucifer letting one get their hands on aything like the power associated with Word Bound status. cf. my own Patron of the Martial Arts in the Rogue's Gallery, tho from the above I guess he should be the Patron of Martial Artists. Thanking you for your indulgence. Regards, Peter. Reply to peterf@wr.com.au What does the Lord require of you, but to do justice and to love kindness and to walk humbly with your God ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:40:22 From: Peter Frederick Subject: Re: IN> Becoming a Superior >But Lucifer *can* make someone a Prince by fiat if he wants to. Furfur is >an example. > >It hasn't been established whether or not the Seraphim Council can create >an Archangel by acclamation, but even if they can, they probably don't. > >-David From an Angelic point of view I am not sure that it makes a lot of difference whether you get the AA badge or not. It does make it easy for new or inexperienced Celestials to know where you stand in the scheme of things, but otherwise if you have the power and the range of attunements and distinctions to bestow and a huge number of followers then you probably get treated with the same respect as anyone else who has that level of resources. In my cosmology I tend to have a level sort of below AA, but at the very top end of Word Bound that I put all those people who have really important words that I don't think make the AA grade. So far all the AA's published outside the original rules fall into this catagory, tho I suspect Khalid will make it to full AA status. Thanking you for your indulgence. Regards, Peter. Reply to peterf@wr.com.au What does the Lord require of you, but to do justice and to love kindness and to walk humbly with your God ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:14:33 -0500 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Connection to the Symphony On Jan 29, 1:51pm, Steven Feldon (Exchange) wrote: > Subject: RE: IN> Connection to the Symphony > The way I always justified this was imagining that Angels are listening > to Beethoven and Demons are listening to construction noise. When a > disturbance happens, both can hear it, but it's disturbing different > things. . . . > > steve > > > I just noticed another of those little awkward details. > > > > People, including IN Canon, keep talking about how demons can't hear > > the Symphony, have lost their connection to the Symphony, hear only > > their own private little symphonies, etc., etc. Even the APG piece > > on "Falling" talks about hearing the Symphony fade away as his whole > > worldview wrenched itself around. > > > > So, if demons can't hear the Symphony and have no connection with it > > anymore, how do they detect Symphonic disturbance? Demons listen to their own personal Symphony and how it relates to the one around them (they can still hear both, but their personal one is so much _important_). The 'outer' Symphony is a necessary distraction that they can tune in on, but clashes with their internal nature. (A possible in-game reason why demons tend to have high Wills and low Perceptions... they don't _want_ to hear the true Symphony because it's so discordant with they natures.) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:18:22 -0500 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: Canon Doubt And Uncertainty (Re: IN> By Any Other Name) > > Some more general speculation on the nature of Janus' Fall, if in fact > > Janus did Fall, follows. > > > > On page 121 of the main In Nomine rulebook, it says: > > "Although his mission is to promote change, he himself has changed very > > little in the past millenia." > > > > So we have a contradiction here. And a contradiction involving your Word > > has a special name, that name being Dissonance. Janus has mistaken > > superficial change for true change. The destruction of structures of law > > by theft was a major change when introduced, but it is ingrained in > > reality now, and cannot really be called a change any more. Janus ran out > > of new ideas, and fixated on those he already had. And thus he Fell. > > I can buy that he Fell, and I can buy your argument 100% and I'm certainly > willing to, but how does he get back into Heaven? How does he create > angelic servitors? How come no one notices he's a Calabite? Why that's simple! The _massive_ change caused by a Fall is enough to abort the Fall itself. He takes on a new persona for a time and suddenly he's back to his regular self after having taken another spin around the infernal/holy track. (If anyone thinks this is canon, you have another think coming!) ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:15:35 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> What is canon Heretic103@aol.com wrote: > Please for the last time will some one tell me what canon is? I know I posted an explanation to the list a few days back. A "canon" is the authoritative documents for some activity. It comes from theological usage, where the "canon" is the list of books that a given religion agrees belong in the Bible. The term has been extended to many other fields, including computer standards and role-playing. The theological usage comes from a Latin word, which comes from a Greek word, which means "reed" or "stick," and came to mean "measuring stick." So, the IN "canon" is the IN stuff published by Steve Jackson Games, as contrasted to stuff that might appear on this list, which everyone may agree is neat, but which hasn't been published. Being non-canonical is not, outside religious circles, necessarily a bad thing, but it is often polite or useful to point out when you are deviating from canon, since canon is what people expect by default. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:20:57 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine: Hindu Tradition Perry M. Lloyd wrote: > I'm very wary about paralleling any of the Hindu Gods with Demons. > Hinduism is not a dualistic religion, and *I* am not going to place > any of the Hindu celestial hierarchy on that side of the line. Okay, but there *are* Hindu demons, though they may not be as unambiguously evil as monotheistic demons. Hey, maybe you could do a blend of Hinduism and the oldest Zoroastrianism you can find. I think there are a fair number of cognate god-names. > >As I recall there is some sort of technology/crafts demi-god in > > Hindism. Jean would play a good role for that. > > Crap... who is that??? > Anyone know? Kubera? I am dredging this from half-memories of Roger Zelazny's "Lord of Light." Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:25:51 -0500 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> FLUFF: Xtian Food On Jan 29, 11:45am, Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki wrote: > Subject: IN> FLUFF: Xtian Food > >I thought it was because Islam had dietary restrictions in much the same > >manner as Judaism, whereas Christians will eat anything. Almost ALL religions had/have dietary restrictions. It seems to be a favorite topic among primitive cultures (what _else_ did they have to worry about? Death, Sex, and personal adornment is about it.) Christianity, as a mass, has thrown off most of its. The last major one (which is still held to in some areas) is no meat on Friday. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:32:07 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> FLUFF: Xtian Food The book of Acts records the infant Church's abandonment of Jewish dietary laws, as part and parcel of the decision to allow gentiles to become Christians without also converting to Judaism. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:35:11 -0500 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Nitpicking Beth On Jan 29, 2:35pm, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> Nitpicking Beth > At 8:30 AM -0500 1/29/98, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > >> Nitpicking occures in so many more areas, and is so much more > >> insideous...) > > ^^^^^^^^^ > > 'insidious' > > -john 'Demon Prince of Rules Lawyers' karakash- > > But you're using one of my rites.... I never said I could spell, > though. I'm Nitpicking, not Spelling. <*grins*> Ah, but even though your Word isn't spelling, me _pointing out_ the misspelling is, indeed, nitpicking. (Since I'm sure everyone knew what you meant...) Just like Jordi's word is Animals and Eli's is Creation. If Eli happens to invent a new species of animal, it falls under Jordi's word. ;) This could lead to a very ugly situation at times. The demon of misspelling could be causing his usual problems and because of your word, your minions would have to dutifully point out each and every one. Fights between demons can be mighty mean. ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:43:34 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN History Neel Krishnaswami wrote: > :) In my game, there are many other intelligent races in the Universe. > None of the others succumbed to temptation the way Adam and Eve did, > though. Mankind is the only species that is fallen. ... > It also explains the Fermi paradox -- other sentient races regard the > prospect of contact with humanity in much the same way you or I would > look forward to a dinner date with Charles Manson. :) All this sounds very reminiscent of the speculations of C. S. Lewis in an essay from the late '50s or early '60s, entitled, I think, "Religion and Rocketry," in which he talks about the theology of extraterrestrial life. His general conclusion is that it is certainly nothing to challenge Christian faith and compares modern speculation about the theology of aliens to medieval speculation about the theology of fairies. One of the possibilities he entertains is that there are many races but ours is the only fallen one, likening our species to the one sheep that went astray, in Christ's parable, causing the shepherd to leave the 99 other sheep to go looking for the little \\\\\\\ > In my game, there is the archangel Jerah, angel of the Moon. She > entered Celestial politics in 1969, after these disgusting little > Fallen humans came and *crawled all over her lovely moon*. Sadly, > she has no Servitors, since she has no interest in increasing her > dealings with man. Also reminiscent of Lewis, this time of the angelic spirits that steer the planets around their orbits in his Space Trilogy. Jerah may find it expedient to acquire/make some servitors, if humans start setting up bases on her sphere. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:08:19 -0500 From: Sean Michael Whipkey Subject: Re: IN> FLUFF: Xtian Food At 11:45 -0500 1/29/98, Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki wrote: >*Haagenti-inspired image of Christians devouring their children in a white >wines sauce, with dirt for dessert...* I can't believe you'd suggest that! Kids are supposed to be eaten in a *red* wine sauce! Geez. :::) SeanMike Balseraph of unnecessary gratuitous disgusting statements, captain of not being able to type this morning. - -- Sean Michael Whipkey, smw4s@virginia.edu Weldon Cooper Center for Public Service, Publications Div. 804/924-4185 (or -4188) voicenet, 804/982-5536 fax http://www.virginia.edu/~cpserv/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:13:59 -0500 From: Sean Michael Whipkey Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN History At 21:38 -0500 1/29/98, Neel Krishnaswami wrote: >In my game, there is the archangel Jerah, angel of the Moon. She >entered Celestial politics in 1969, after these disgusting little >Fallen humans came and *crawled all over her lovely moon*. Sadly, >she has no Servitors, since she has no interest in increasing her >dealings with man. She just wants the archangels to keep them away >from her pure and pristine world. She's a Cherub, attuned to the >whole Moon, who really does not appreciate Jean's insistence that man >be allowed space travel. I could understand how she'd feel that way. However, angels with Words are supposed to be trying to promote their Words, correct? I would think that she would be more likely to gain in a situation where humans were actively exploring the moon, and more of our resources and people are flowing up the gravity well towards it. The fact that a colony there could *help* the Earth would also help the angelic cause, most likely. She reminds me of Mitrah (is that her name?) from _Night Music_. >though. Mankind is the only species that is fallen. That's why demons >work so obsessively to corrupt mankind -- they are the only known source >of Essence Hell has. So all the other races are perfect in living in bliss in paradise? It does give a nice air of desperation to the infernal side. "If we don't win here, we lose *everything*." >It also explains the Fermi paradox -- other sentient races regard the >prospect of contact with humanity in much the same way you or I would >look forward to a dinner date with Charles Manson. :) Do they realize that humans exist, and are actively avoiding us as they explore space? Or have they just been warned by Heaven? SeanMike - -- SeanMike Whipkey (smw4s@virginia.edu) is: The Grinning Impudite of Andrealphus, Captain of Diabolical Delight South Republican Green Mamba Heavy Gear Pilot/Wildlander UVA Government Major/VP Paintball Club/GWAR Cyberslave/Pep Band Drummer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:16:44 -0500 From: Sean Michael Whipkey Subject: Re: IN> Superiors' Notes: Yves and Kronos At 22:42 -0800 1/29/98, bruce dykes wrote: >To strengthen this, I would posit that Kronos is the only demon who is >still connected to the Symphony. His Word is actually a part of the That's actually directly stated in Kronos' write-up in _Heaven and Hell_. Lucifer attempted to make duplicates of his connection by directly using parts of him (his forces), but it didn't seem to work...at least, H&H didn't *say* it worked. (Such a relic would make a good MacGuffin, though.) SeanMike - -- SeanMike Whipkey (smw4s@virginia.edu) is: The Grinning Impudite of Andrealphus, Captain of Diabolical Delight South Republican Green Mamba Heavy Gear Pilot/Wildlander UVA Government Major/VP Paintball Club/GWAR Cyberslave/Pep Band Drummer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:23:15 -0000 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN History - ---Earl Wajenberg wrote: > One of the possibilities he entertains is that there are many races > but ours is the only fallen one, likening our species to the one > sheep that went astray, in Christ's parable, causing the shepherd to > leave the 99 other sheep to go looking for the little (I'm sure that was in Exodus before it was in a parable ;) ). Actually I quite like the notion from 'A Wrinkle in Time' (has anyone else read that?) in which it seems as though there are many other inhabited planets out there, some bright and some dark... but ours is the only one which is fighting. My other semi-relevant book recommend is called 'Spanky' which is quite a fun modern day faust retelling. Oh and the one I'm reading at the moment which is not at all relevant but a great book anyway and is called 'Milton in America' by Peter Ackroyd. It has the distinction of being something I picked up at a station on the way to a party because it looked interesting and everyone at the party who scanned the back cover decided immediately that they wanted to buy a copy. jo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:35:57 EST From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> What is canon In a message dated 1/29/98 9:03:47 PM, Heretic103@AOL.COM writes: >Please for the last time will some one tell me what canon is? For In Nomine, the Official Canon (tm) is currently: In Nomine (the main rule book) Reveleations I/Night Music The In Nomine GM's screen Revelations II/The Marches Revelations III/Heaven and Hell The Angelic Player's Guide The FAQ and Erratta pages from the Official Steve Jackson Games In Nomine Web Site And that's It. Simply speaking, canon is The Official Rules. Mark(If this isn't what you meant, let me know...) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:41:35 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Ozdowski Subject: IN> Fluff - poor GM I just thought I'd share a bit of our upcoming IN game with the list because it's developing strangely even in the stages of character creation..... Seanmike - the poor Gm to be - is running our game, and decided to use IOU to let players pick a combined angel/demon party should they like. Mistake #1. Now, he's stuck with a Malakite of Eli, an Ofanite of Jean, a Balseraph of Kobal, and an as yet to be determined character. The better part is that the Malakite has a role as a bartender, the Ofanite is a phone repair guy, and the Balseraph is an amateur cartoonist. Does anyone else see our first combat something like this: Sparky = Ofanite Louie = Malakite Curly = Balseraph Our heroes need to get into a warehouse..... Curly: "Okay, here's the plan! Louie, you take the cover position across the street from the door. Sparky, you're gonna ring the doorbell and zap yourself over to the backdoor via the metal building framework. I'll climb to the roof, and we'll take it from there! Louie - front door, Sparky - back door, I'll go in from the roof....meet you guys in the middle!" Ofanite rings bell, zaps to the back. Night watchman sticks head out the door. Louie lines up Beernuts and begins flicking them at the watchman, using his power to make them into weapons! Guard scampers behind dumpster, and we have one of those pitched Gun/Beernut battles you see in movies. All of a sudden, CLANG!!! Curly drops a huge anvil on the guard. Curly: "It really does work......" Sparky: "Guys, hey Guys!! I'vealreadybeenthroughthe entirebuildingandthere'snobody" CLANG!!! Louie: "He's probably not gonna be real happy when he wakes up..." Curly: "There coulda been more guards..." Heh, poor Seanmike. Next thing you know, Emily'll fly in and then we'll have Laurence flouncing around in a green tutu. (Although Beth could nitpick and say it was Chartreuse!) Dan Ozdowski Calabite of wrecking GM's plans.... - -- I shall henceforth be referred to as: Lord of Chaos ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:43:26 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN History Hart, Joanna wrote: > Actually I quite like the notion from 'A Wrinkle in Time' (has > anyone else read that?) in which it seems as though there are many > other inhabited planets out there, some bright and some dark... but > ours is the only one which is fighting. I have read the entire "Time" series by L'Engle. It is good background reading for IN fans. "A Wind in the Door" includes a character who looks almost exactly like a Kyrio in celestial form (though he is called a cherubim, and yes, he knows "cherubim" is plural; he claims he IS plural...) "Many Waters" describes an interesting version of the world before the Flood, including nephilim (though L'Engle uses "nephilim" for the fallen angels, not for their semi-human children, who also appear in the story). I have occasionally GMed in an SF setting where, as part of the background (usually well-hidden), different races had different degrees of fallenness. Humans are on the dark side of average, but there are races more fallen than us. The average is rather like Tolkien's hobbits in moral development. (They can *look* like anything.) Their lives are so harmonious, they don't really need police forces or armies among themselves. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:10:44 -0500 From: Sean Michael Whipkey Subject: Re: IN> Fluff - poor GM Oy. Thank goodness they're warning me before starting the campaign... At 10:41 -0500 1/30/98, Dan Ozdowski wrote: >I just thought I'd share a bit of our upcoming IN game with the >list because it's developing strangely even in the stages of >character creation..... Which is how I wanted it. Strangeness is much more interesting then just the "we're the Malakites of Laurence, Michael, and Dominic, happily munching through the background..." >Seanmike - the poor Gm to be - is running our game, and decided >to use IOU to let players pick a combined angel/demon party >should they like. Mistake #1. Er...it *started* and was *inspired* by IOU...but it's ever-so-slowly evolving away from that. I've been working up source info for all of VA - and managed to make UVA all the much weirder. (Though I do have to of course thank Archangel Beth for IOU). >Now, he's stuck with a Malakite of Eli, an Ofanite of Jean, a >Balseraph of Kobal, and an as yet to be determined character. I still think the "undetermined" character will be a Shedim...<>. I do want it to be another demon, though. >The better part is that the Malakite has a role as a bartender, That's where Rowloffs is when he's not bartending...and how come he keeps flipping glasses all around when washing them behind the bar...:) >the Ofanite is a phone repair guy, and the Balseraph is an Which explains why they never show up. >amateur cartoonist. Heh. For the student newspaper or just trying to get started anywhere? (BTW, I do like the writeup of the combat/break-in. Funny, Mr. BalseraphofKobal man. Don't even think you can get away with it in the game, though, and here's why.) >Ofanite rings bell, zaps to the back. Night watchman sticks Disturbance right there as he damages both circuits. Central VA is crawling with angels, demons, and soldiers right now 'cause of a convulated set-up scheme...heehee! >head out the door. Louie lines up Beernuts and begins flicking >them at the watchman, using his power to make them into >weapons! Guard scampers behind dumpster, and we have one of More disturbance if you hit him. >those pitched Gun/Beernut battles you see in movies. Just begging for the cops to show up. The guard wouldn't be likely to leave the building after something of an electrical explosion on either side of it; he'd definitely sound an alarm first. >All of a sudden, CLANG!!! Curly drops a huge anvil on the >guard. BIG, BIG disturbance. Remember the +10 for killing a human? >Sparky: "Guys, hey Guys!! I'vealreadybeenthroughthe >entirebuildingandthere'snobody" > >CLANG!!! > >Louie: "He's probably not gonna be real happy when he wakes >up..." BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I love that! >Curly: "There coulda been more guards..." I see it already Dan - you're planning on running all over the other characters, aren't you? Hmmm. Maybe we'll lighten up the geas on the Malakim just...a...little...there we go. Better start runnin', boy.:) >Heh, poor Seanmike. Next thing you know, Emily'll fly in and >then we'll have Laurence flouncing around in a green tutu. >(Although Beth could nitpick and say it was Chartreuse!) Hey! I can make Laurence wear a tutu also! It wouldn't be green, though. I like mauve. >Calabite of wrecking GM's plans.... We'll see about that. ;;;) BTW, if anyone else wants to see the write up on Virginia I'm doing, lemme know, and I'll put it up when I finish it. It'll be a complete work, probably at least as long as the writeup on Austin in NM. I'm doing a whole state, with particular emphasis on Charlottesville, Richmond, and a couple of other places. SeanMike Shedim of Giving Players Silly Ideas, then Stomping on 'em with Big Combat Boots. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:44:48 -0500 (EST) From: "York H. Dobyns" Subject: Re: Canon Doubt And Uncertainty (Re: IN> By Any Other Name) johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) writes: [regarding Janus, change, and Falling:] > Why that's simple! The _massive_ change caused by a >Fall is enough to abort the Fall itself. He takes on a new >persona for a time and suddenly he's back to his regular >self after having taken another spin around the infernal/holy >track. (If anyone thinks this is canon, you have another >think coming!) ;) I like it even if it isn't canon. Janus' *real* Word is obviously Paradox, since per the above he generates dissonance by not generating dissonance (and conversely, removes dissonance by generating it). He Falls if and only if he does not Fall: no statement regarding his Fallen/Redeemed status can be either true or false. (Incidentally -- does a Seraph generate dissonance by speaking the Liar's Paradox, i.e. "This statement is false"? What about a Balseraph? Can this not-true not-false assertion be framed in the angelic tongue?) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 11:55 EST From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> What is canon >So, the IN "canon" is the IN stuff published by Steve Jackson Games, >as contrasted to stuff that might appear on this list, which >everyone may agree is neat, but which hasn't been published. Another thing to note is that the terms canon and non-canon are often used by IN writers and editors to distinguish what will be official parts of the IN universe and rules from personal opinions. "Canon" means something that is either in the official material, or will be followed by future stuff. "Non-canon" means it either differs from official material, relates to topics that will never be officially touched, or lies in areas that haven't been officially decided upon yet. This usage convention helps gamers understand what constitutes (or will constitute) official rules from the personal stylistic choices the various writers and editors might make for their own games. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 12:07 EST From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> What is canon [Mark:] >>Please for the last time will some one tell me what canon is? > >For In Nomine, the Official Canon (tm) is currently: [list of stuff omitted] >And that's It. Actually, it also includes pronouncements from the IN Netrep (John Karakesh) and the IN Line Editor (Elizabeth McCoy), when such are labelled as "canon" or "official". These are usually things relating to products in production, or questions that will be added to the official FAQ or errata. [There are other possible sources of canon pronouncements (primarily SJG Managing Editor Scott Haring, and Steve Jackson), but they don't usually read or post to this list, being primarily concerned with getting the next books out.] - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:24:42 -0500 (EST) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> [A private "I lost your address!" *sigh*] > [Whoever it was who was discussing a computer-Song with me, can > you drop me a note? I've managed to lose your address... *sigh*] I believe that was me, with the Song of Computing/Technology/whatever. And I can't believe you forgot it was me. *stern Seraphic glare* - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 12:22 EST From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: Canon Doubt And Uncertainty (Re: IN> By Any Other Name) [York:] >johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) writes: >[regarding Janus, change, and Falling:] > >> Why that's simple! The _massive_ change caused by a >>Fall is enough to abort the Fall itself. He takes on a new >>persona for a time and suddenly he's back to his regular >>self after having taken another spin around the infernal/holy >>track. (If anyone thinks this is canon, you have another >>think coming!) ;) > >I like it even if it isn't canon. Janus' *real* Word is obviously >Paradox, since per the above he generates dissonance by not generating >dissonance (and conversely, removes dissonance by generating it). >He Falls if and only if he does not Fall: no statement regarding his >Fallen/Redeemed status can be either true or false. In other words, he's in a state of quantum indeterminacy.... I like it! >(Incidentally -- does a Seraph generate dissonance by speaking the >Liar's Paradox, i.e. "This statement is false"? I would say no -- the statement is meta-false. If a seraph tried to say this, I'd probably give him the Dizziness Discord.... > What about a Balseraph? Elizabeth and I were speculating on this one time. Our notion was that Vapula got one of Kronos' Balseraphs with the Seraph resonance to say this, trying to create a perpetual motion machine to generate Essence. Unfortunately, the poor Bal generated so much Essence he exploded -- the first known Balseraph Bomb. Now most Bals know better than to try.... >Can this not-true not-false assertion be framed in the angelic tongue?) I would say no. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 12:27 EST From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Fluff - poor GM >Er...it *started* and was *inspired* by IOU...but it's ever-so-slowly >evolving away from that. I've been working up source info for all of VA - >and managed to make UVA all the much weirder. (Though I do have to of >course thank Archangel Beth for IOU). Hey, don't I get any credit...? >>Now, he's stuck with a Malakite of Eli, an Ofanite of Jean, a >>Balseraph of Kobal, and an as yet to be determined character. > >I still think the "undetermined" character will be a Shedim...<>. I >do want it to be another demon, though. A Shedite of the Game might be interesting... give the Kobal minion something to think about.... >>Heh, poor Seanmike. Next thing you know, Emily'll fly in and >>then we'll have Laurence flouncing around in a green tutu. >>(Although Beth could nitpick and say it was Chartreuse!) > >Hey! I can make Laurence wear a tutu also! It wouldn't be green, though. >I like mauve. Don't forget Laurence is a Malakite -- it should be a mauve *leather* tutu.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:43:54 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Nitpicking Beth > > But you're using one of my rites.... I never said I could spell, > > though. I'm Nitpicking, not Spelling. > > <*grins*> Ah, but even though your Word isn't > spelling, me _pointing out_ the misspelling is, indeed, > nitpicking. (Since I'm sure everyone knew what you > meant...) Just like Jordi's word is Animals and Eli's > is Creation. If Eli happens to invent a new species of > animal, it falls under Jordi's word. ;) All I know is, at this rate, Beth is going to generate so much essence she might explode like the aforementioned Balseraph Bomb. *BOOM* - - em ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:50:42 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Fluff - poor GM > Heh, poor Seanmike. Next thing you know, Emily'll fly in and > then we'll have Laurence flouncing around in a green tutu. > (Although Beth could nitpick and say it was Chartreuse!) > Hehehehe. Well, maybe. My Laurence has a good rear end, and wears alot of shiny armor, and says things like, "It is commanded by my honor to slay this hot dog with the holy pickle relish". You know, _Laurence_. If you're lucky, I won't show up and engage your Malakite in a heated discussion on the offensive attacks one can take up with a gratuitous fish tie. - - Em, Demon of Playing IN in Dizzy Circles. Look! Pop-Ice! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:53:45 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Fluff - poor GM > >I still think the "undetermined" character will be a Shedim...<>. I > >do want it to be another demon, though. > > A Shedite of the Game might be interesting... give the Kobal minion > something to think about.... I have a Kobalite here, who is explaining, "We are not _minions_. How tacky. We are your Friendly Reality Adjustment Service. And sometimes we let you sample free of charge." - - Em, Freelancing for the _MAN_ after the whole IC Fish Tie Argument ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:56:01 -0800 From: abenstern@juno.com (Marcus Evenstar) Subject: Re: IN> test We could see your message but could you turn off the HTML option? It's redundant and the list doesn't support it anyway. Thanks! marcus evenstar (aka Bill, Malakim Vassal of Lightning) => e-mail: abenstern@juno.com | page: www.aa.net/~evenstar | ICQ# 7478547<= _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:46:33 -0500 From: Jesse Subject: IN> Relic So are we going to see the Holy Hand Gernade of Antioch in the Liberuim Requirum? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:53:12 -0500 From: Sean Michael Whipkey Subject: Re: IN> Fluff - poor GM At 12:27 -0500 1/30/98, Walter Milliken wrote: >Hey, don't I get any credit...? D'oh! Sorry! My humblest apologies! >A Shedite of the Game might be interesting... give the Kobal minion >something to think about.... Heehee...now there's an idea. Tell her to think like a troubleshooter from "Paranoia". Of course, Balseraphs of Kobal should always be happy.:::) >Don't forget Laurence is a Malakite -- it should be a mauve *leather* >tutu.... Of course! Tight leather! SeanMike - -- Sean Michael Whipkey, smw4s@virginia.edu Weldon Cooper Center for Public Service, Publications Div. 804/924-4185 (or -4188) voicenet, 804/982-5536 fax http://www.virginia.edu/~cpserv/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:55:31 -0500 From: Sean Michael Whipkey Subject: Re: IN> Fluff - poor GM At 12:50 -0500 1/30/98, Emily Dresner wrote: >Hehehehe. Well, maybe. My Laurence has a good rear end, and wears alot >of shiny armor, and says things like, "It is commanded by my honor to slay >this hot dog with the holy pickle relish". You know, _Laurence_. ROFLMAO. Dammit, I can't stop laughing at work now. I've got tears in my eyes. My cow orkers are looking at me funny. I definitely must have Laurence in my game. It's too bad the Ofanite of Jean decided not to go with the Cherub of Laurence... >If you're lucky, I won't show up and engage your Malakite in a heated >discussion on the offensive attacks one can take up with a gratuitous fish >tie. You're more then welcome to join in anytime you happen to be in Virginia. Of course, who knows when that'll be, so feel free to just give me weird ideas by e-mail.:) Thanks to you, I'm buying a copy of Kult...when I get money. Which will be by the year 2000, I'm sure.:::) SeanMike - -- SeanMike Whipkey (smw4s@virginia.edu) is: The Grinning Impudite of Andrealphus, Captain of Diabolical Delight South Republican Green Mamba Heavy Gear Pilot/Wildlander UVA Government Major/VP Paintball Club/GWAR Cyberslave/Pep Band Drummer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:11:54 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Ozdowski Subject: Re: IN> Fluff - poor GM According to Sean Michael Whipkey: > >A Shedite of the Game might be interesting... give the Kobal minion > >something to think about.... > > Heehee...now there's an idea. Tell her to think like a troubleshooter from > "Paranoia". > > Of course, Balseraphs of Kobal should always be happy.:::) > Hey, I better get a FULL compliment of "Happy Pills" from The Computer if we're gonna start THAT business. Of course, our Ofanite of Jean would have to be Equipment Guy. Poor fellow... > >Don't forget Laurence is a Malakite -- it should be a mauve *leather* > >tutu.... > > Of course! Tight leather! Uh-huh. This whole image is definitely giving me some funny thoughts about what Laurence has got in that basement of his. "Umm, yeah. That's my uhhhh, super-holy weapons - Yeah, that's it. Whipping noises? What whipping noises?" Dan Ozdowski Balseraph of making huge disturbances and running really, really fast to watch the fireworks from a safe distance! - -- I shall henceforth be referred to as: Lord of Chaos ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #604 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.