From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat Oct 31 17:05:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA10636 for ; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 17:05:03 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id QAA04284 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 16:45:23 -0600 Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 16:45:23 -0600 Message-Id: <199810312245.QAA04284@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1000 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, October 31 1998 Volume 01 : Number 1000 In this digest: IN> Michael's Nature (Re: The ruling in Michael's trial) Re: IN> Renegades Re: IN> another symphony question Re: IN> In Nomine Question IN> Renegades IN> Disease IN> Renegades IN> Kyriotates-careless children? Re: IN> funny game quotes and questions Re: IN> A word challange Re: IN> PBEM gaming Re: IN> funny game quotes and questions IN> fine, you have a gun Re: IN> Renegades Re: IN> symphony question Re: IN> PBEM gaming Re: IN> another symphony question Re: IN> IN- disease question IN> Kyriotate of....DESTINY!!!! IN> Re: IN- A diseased little thought that even I don't take too seriously ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 14:04:33 -0800 (PST) From: Jayson Howell Subject: IN> Michael's Nature (Re: The ruling in Michael's trial) I've always thought having him be a Seraph was a good idea. Michael is noblest of the Archangels, Champion of the Kingdom of Heaven. Michael is the vengeful arm of god, the Truth given power to triumph over the lies of Hell without hinderance of morality or honor. The expanded write up in Final Trumpet is great too. It explains that Michael's word originally covered conflict and challenge before the fall. Given: Seraphim can tell the Truth. Let's suppose Dominic and Michael both detect the Truth, but differ on their interpretations. (Big surprise there.) It is Dom's nature to sit and debate, to brood over the nature of the differing opinions, and ultimately decide which holds the most merit. Michael however says "let's test this. You put your theory against mine, whichever holds longest must be stronger, more accurate, and closer to the Truth." Michael is kind of a blunt user of Socratic method. That which is Truth, shall hold. That which is not, must be stripped away. We know the word of Lucifer to be false, as it conflicts with the word of God. We must therefore strip the falsehood (and those who would promote it) from the Symphony. It works well for me. - Jayson - ---Perry Lloyd wrote: > > >At 09:48 AM 10/19/98 +0100, Kevin Walsh wrote: > > > >>I think War as a Word is better suited for an Ofanite or an Elohite. > After > >>all, deception is the basis of warfare, and you don't want someone > who'll > >>be tied down by niggly little scruples. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 18:19:02 -0500 From: Nana Yaw Ofori Subject: Re: IN> Renegades At 7:23 AM -0800 10/30/98, Jayson Howell wrote: >Distinctions are gone. Servitor and Band attunements, powers granted >by the Superior are gone. Attunements from being word bound would >remain so long as the binding to the word remains. > From the IPG, Band Attunements, and Servitor Attunements are retained. Dissonance conditions and Rites are lost if you smash your heart, a prudent thing to do, if you're planning to go renegade. If your DP could get close enough to you to strip you of your Attunements, he's close enough that your Renegade status is about to be resolved, one way or another... - -- Nana Yaw Ofori nofori@pop3.utoledo.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 18:20:11 -0500 From: Nana Yaw Ofori Subject: Re: IN> another symphony question At 1:22 AM -0500 10/30/98, Setzer Gabbiani wrote: >just one more question i need clarification on. Say a demon fired a >howitzer at a range of say five miles and it exploded into a city block >killing a bunch of people. This would obviously cause a disturbance but >where? would it be where the shell hit or where the demon was currently or >even where the demon was when they fired it? is it like a cybergeneration >virtuality sign saying fugitive here or is it kind of like a general >emergency warning? > Personally, I have the Disturbance emit from the destroyed city block. Anybody who's Symphonically aware and arrives on the scene then gets a second Perception roll to detect the Howitzer-Wielding Demon as if all that Disturbance had come from /him/. At such a point in time, it might be wise for J. Demon to skip to another Plane while the echoes die down... - -- Nana Yaw Ofori nofori@pop3.utoledo.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 18:44:10 -0600 (CST) From: Elizabeth Bartley Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Question On Fri, 30 Oct 1998, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Go research (in the IPG, I believe, as well as the FAQ?) what happens > to Balseraphs of Fate who get the Kyrio resonance as well. It's basically > the same sort of thing... It's in the IPG; I just looked it up because I was wondering the exact same thing. It says the Balseraph can have a Vessel, but he can't manifest it while using the Kyrio resonance. Elizabeth Bartley e-bartley@pobox.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 22:57:40 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Renegades >>>Distinctions are gone. Servitor and Band attunements, powers granted by the Superior are gone. Attunements from being word bound would remain so long as the binding to the word remains.<<< Incorrect. Renegades do NOT lose Distinctions and attunements. (See the IPG.) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 22:57:43 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Disease >>>Can angels contract rabies? I've been searching for canon on this issue... So far as I can tell, only Demons can get rabies. I'm not sure where I read that, but I'm pretty sure I did. Might have been in The Marches...<<< Celestial vessels are normally immune to diseases. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 23:05:34 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Renegades >>>if a demon goes Renegade, why would his superior keep giving him _anything_?<<< Attunements represent a fundamental change in the celestial's being -- the Superior has already altered him, so in order to take the attunements away, he has to get his hands on the celestial to undo it. (And of course, if a Prince gets his hands on a Renegade, the point becomes moot...) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 23:05:38 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Kyriotates-careless children? >>>No offense meant, D-Man, but have *you* ever been raped? I haven't, but more than enough of my friends have and being unconscious (and in the Marches, I believe) is NOTHING like being raped.<<< Have you ever had your body possessed and woken up three days later with no memory of what happened, only to find out you'd been doing really strange things....? I think whether or not someone would feel raped would depend a lot on the individual, but it's not an inappropos analogy. There're lots of other silly reasons to jump on people -- let's not include earnestly PC expressions of righteous indignation. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 00:21:05 EST From: Akumsa@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> funny game quotes and questions In a message dated 10/30/98 1:07:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, slmarco@hotmail.com writes: << What would you guys do if one of your player characters asked Gabriel out on a date? >> I ask him f he's sure, then tell him he gets the 3rd degree from her. Later his night is on fire, and I keep making bad puns untill he gives up. They eventually shut up. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- John T Perkowski, Ofanite of Arcade Games MASTER of Attunements (Go ahead, Gimme a word and some details, and in 24 hours, you'll get yerself some attunements). "You sense Danger all around you." "I obfuscate!" "This is In Nomine you idiot!" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 00:37:32 EST From: Akumsa@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> A word challange In a message dated 10/27/98 10:21:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, state@uclink4.berkeley.edu writes: << So, John T Perkowski, Ofanite of Arcade Games - I seek attunements for the word of "Cope." As in - "I have such trouble in my life!" "Yes, well, cope." >> Oh very well here goes.... Angel Word of Cope(ing) Dissonance. It is dissonant for these angels to not try and resolve a situation they are faced with peacefully. If a conflict arises, they must gather the opposing sides and attempt to sort out a peacful solution. If the situation is hopeless (like stopping the war with out further bloodshed), they must try and best be prepared for it. Alhtough these angels are not on well with the more militant factions of heaven, they are good fighters none the less (after all, they have to cope with a battle, no?). Seraphim The Most Divine of chiors regain a point of essence each time they help a person cope with a situation by showing them the truth. Cherubim Slightly diffrent from thier breatheren, the cherubim of Coping must help people they are attuned to deal with bad situations, rahter than physical violence. More militant angels laugh at this, but wise angels know there is more than one type of pain. Elohim The Elohim regain essence each time they objectivly view a situation, and come up with a solution that helps a person resolve the problem. (examples, clearing writers block, helping thru a math problem, ect.) Ofanim. The fastest of Chiors are charged with helping people regain thier need for speed (people from motor cycle accidents, car crashes, ect.) Malakim The Virtues have a hard time coping with demons, so they are charged with helping others deal with demonic presence. Look for them, Grinning, where ever there is demonic disturbance. Mercurian Well suited for the task, the Friends of man must help persons thru akward social situations. At the end of such a function, they regain one essence for every 3 people they have helped see thru such bad ends. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- John T Perkowski, Ofanite of Arcade Games MASTER of Attunements (Go ahead, Gimme a word and some details, and in a short while, you'll get yerself some attunements). "Okay, after objectivly viewing the situation from every standpoint possible, I submit that its best to KILL EVERY (edited) DEMON IN THIS AREA!" "A little biased for an Elohite isnt he?" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 22:48:00 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Knop Subject: Re: IN> PBEM gaming > Secondly, other than the Access Denied site (on which I've already > posted this) are there any forums for making such a request other than > the mailing list? Try www.pbem.com. All kinds of PBEMs advertise there. - -Rob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 14:20:48 +0000 From: Peter Witney Subject: Re: IN> funny game quotes and questions At 12:21 AM 10/31/98 EST, John T Perkowski wrote: > >I ask him f he's sure, then tell him he gets the 3rd degree from her. Later >his night is on fire, and I keep making bad puns untill he gives up. They >eventually shut up. > You mean some fool has actually tried it IYW? peter.witney@kobal.demon.co.uk Shedim of Kobal, in service to the Demon of Critics ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 14:08:45 +0000 From: Peter Witney Subject: IN> fine, you have a gun >> >> "Okay, I roll to convince the Symphony that I have a gun." >> "Yes!!! sucess with a check of 6!!" >> >> "Fine, you have a gun, next?" > >In our regular game, we have "Glamour," which is the power to create >purely visual and auditory effects by twiddling with light and sound >waves, and then there is "Second-Order Glamour," which is described >by the GM as "convincing the universe to treat the target as if >it were something else." This sounds like the same idea. This sounds suspiciously like combinations of things from *other* games (e.g. Snatcher from GURPS Timetravel, and Ofuscate from Vampire). Whatever they are, they seems to circumvent storylines. If you can pull a required object (or even the appearance of an object) from nothing, it prevents all sorts of dramatic, or even comic, moments when players realise they lack a neccessary item. Yes, this can be frustrating occasionally, but if they can't work without it, the GM should be able to work in a new method for them to find it, not allow them to just pull it out of mid-air. Likewise, 'Glamour' seems to be a combination and extension of the ethereal songs of light and form, allowing such plot destroying possibilities as 'impenetrable stealth' and S.E.P. ('somebody else's problem' for the uninitiated) fields. To avoid this, the GM would have to rule with an iron fist and tread a fine line on rulings on this subject. Pete peter.witney@kobal.demon.co.uk Shedim of Kobal, in service to the Demon of Critics ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 13:57:36 +0000 From: Peter Witney Subject: Re: IN> Renegades At 04:26 PM 10/30/98 EST, Walter wrote: >Also, neither Outcasts nor Renegades are very viable character concepts >if their old Superior can affect them, wherever they are, with a >thought. One of the main considerations of having a Heart is that your superior can track you via it. If it shatters, as when you go renegade/tripped, the superior can't find you immediately, which is neccessary in order to target most songs and I presume force/distinction stripping. Of course the superior can *search* for you, but unless you're the most important celestial in the superior's hierarchy, it isn't worth the time. They have a lot of things demanding their attention. Pete peter.witney@kobal.demon.co.uk Shedim of Kobal, in service to the Demon of Critics ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 11:23:54 -0500 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> symphony question Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > > > Please don't mention fiction and canon in the same > > breath... it upsets my gentle and placid soul. While we > > _try_ to work with fiction so that it is also good canon, > > some of the stories were made before canon was thought > > fully out. We _may_ errata stories the same we do anything > > else; we just try to avoid it if at all possible. > > But this is the story in the IN main book, so wouldn't it be > canonical fiction? ANYTHING in the rulebooks can be changed if later canon determines that it's broken... including fiction. We try to treat the stories as 'fuzzy canon' until we are forced to make a ruling on them. :/ First consideration is gameplay and the second is consistency with the stories. That said, I don't think this particular tack is a bad idea. It's functional and doesn't involve too much brain-stretching. While the original stories weren't as rigorously checked as the rest of the rules, they WERE written by the same person and generally work alright. In cases of a tie for two equally valid ways to rule, the stories can be a tie-breaker (which is probably what's gonna happen in this case since Beth is leaning toward the 'the amount of damage is to small to detect' paradigm). - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)388-2665(COOL) MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 11:25:47 -0500 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> PBEM gaming Jayson Howell wrote: > Secondly, other than the Access Denied site (on which I've already > posted this) are there any forums for making such a request other than > the mailing list? http://www.pbem.com/pbem-page.html A very nice service and free to any campaign that doesn't charge the players to play. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)388-2665(COOL) MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 11:45:00 -0500 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> another symphony question Setzer Gabbiani wrote: > > just one more question i need clarification on. Say a demon fired a > howitzer at a range of say five miles and it exploded into a city block > killing a bunch of people. This would obviously cause a disturbance but > where? would it be where the shell hit or where the demon was currently or > even where the demon was when they fired it? is it like a cybergeneration > virtuality sign saying fugitive here or is it kind of like a general > emergency warning? Either the location of impact or the demon that did the deed. I think this is mentioned in the book somewhere. On the first symphony question, I actually found a (non-fiction) reference! In Nomine, p.55, "Everything that Celestials do on Earth creates foreign notes in the Symphony. Most are small and easily overlooked. But certain actions, if taken by a celestial, will create dramatic reverberations which can draw attention." So the answer is, most things, especially ones not explicitly mentioned on pp.55-56 are too small to use the Disturbance rules. As a matter of convenience, I would say that if a grenade exploded in mid-air (i.e. didn't harm anything else), it doesn't create Disturbance to save the sanity of the GM! ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)388-2665(COOL) MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 11:49:34 -0500 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> IN- disease question Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > At 1:09 AM -0500 10/30/98, Perry Lloyd wrote: > >Can angels contract rabies? I've been searching for canon on this > >issue... > > So have I. All I found was some old playtest stuff that said that > vessels had to deal with food and sleep and disease (IIRC, since > I was only skimming it...). However, the Makatiel sidebar in the > Dominic section of _Heaven & Hell_ implies quite the opposite. > > I figure that vessels don't get sick. Angelic or demonic. That's the tack I take. Except for specially designed bugs, of course. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)388-2665(COOL) MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 15:57:44 EST From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: IN> Kyriotate of....DESTINY!!!! This question has probably been addressed elsewhere, but are Kyriotates serving Yves able to use the hosts skills through a different host. For example, a Kyrio is possessing two humans, a 5-force master martial artist, and a 4-force trailer trash couch potato. Can the Kyrio, if necessary, use the first host's martial arts skills through the second hosts body? Yours, Brian A Rogers "Evil!!!" - Simon Milligan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 14:42:40 PST From: "Cove Nightsbane" Subject: IN> Re: IN- A diseased little thought that even I don't take too seriously Ouch. ~`~`<@ The only thing sadder than a fallen rose, is a fallen angel. Cove Nightbane, Malakim of Eli in service to Blandine Guardian of the Dreamforest ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1000 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.