From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Oct 6 11:44:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA26735 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:44:27 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id LAA08262 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:10:55 -0500 Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:10:55 -0500 Message-Id: <199810061610.LAA08262@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #965 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, October 6 1998 Volume 01 : Number 965 In this digest: IN> mundane forces Re: IN> Hellacious stats IN> Magog Re: IN> Hellacious stats IN> Spawn v3.0 Re: IN> game quotes and a q. IN> Not Spawn... Re: IN> Hellacious stats Re: IN> Hellacious stats Re: IN> Hellacious stats Re: IN> game quotes and a q. Re: IN> Spawn Re: IN> Hellacious stats Re: IN> A couple of questions Re: IN> Magog Re: IN> [NPC] Nutter, Calabite of Baal Re: IN> Magog Re: IN> Not Spawn... Re: IN> Hellacious stats Re: IN> Not Spawn... IN> A couple of questions IN> Game Quotes IN> Vengence Unlimited Re: IN> the Desert Peach Re: IN> the Desert Peach Re: IN> Hellacious stats IN> everything ever! Re: IN> the Desert Peach Re: IN> Hellacious stats Re: IN> everything ever! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 21:33:42 +0100 From: "CA Smith" Subject: IN> mundane forces 5th October Star Surfer wrote: >1. What is the maximum number of forces a Soldier or Sorcerer can >achieve. I know they have to have 6 Forces at the begining (either >natural or given to them) but can they increase it. Soldiers can get to at least 8, in NM it is said that most demons kill their soldiers before the get their 8th force because they are starting to get too big for their boots (my words not theirs) so therefore are capable of at least 8 > >2. Can Sorcerer's use Ethereal songs? What about Dream Soldiers for >example Soldiers of Blandine and Beleth or certain worshipers of >Ethereals? > In the Song book Play test files there is an Attunement that superiors can hand out to allow songs of realms previously un available eg celestial or ethereal to soldiers >4. Does anyone know what my fourth question was? I've forgotten. perhaps that is your 4th question? > > >Starsurfer > >------------------------------ Chris Smith Gremlim of Vapula Why do Calabim of Belial think bigger is better? a little snip here, a little snip there... and all hell breeaks loose! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 12:34:50 -0500 From: Eeyore Subject: Re: IN> Hellacious stats Walter Milliken wrote: > Remember that an IN combat round is 5 seconds. It's not all that > uncommon for competent fighters in GURPS, for example, to hit more often > than that, since GURPS uses a 1-second combat round. It's much less > common in GURPS for a Dodge to be close to automatic, but then GURPS > Dodge is all-or-nothing, while IN Dodge only reduces damage somewhat. If it makes anybody feel better, I have never yet met a role-playing system in which the time frame of combat rounds gave an accurate feel. If they're too long (AD&D, for instance) then you have a strange sense that you r character is moving through six-inch deep mud when you try to go anywhere. Too short (like Champions) and when you're done with a fight that took you all evening to play, you find that about 45 seconds of game time has passed. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a happy medium. If you change the time scale enough to fix one problem, the other has crept in. Basically, a game needs to have different length rounds depending on what's going on at a given time. GURPS probably comes closer than most anything else, but at the cost, as Walter intimated, that a significant sized combat takes _forever_. And even then, it doesn't fix the problem completely. The best answer I've ever found comes from the world of board gaming, and it's what I use when I run. Advanced Squad Leader (players of which are realism freaks beyond anything I've found in role-playing) has roughly the same problem; it simply declares that a game turn is one turn long, no more, no less. On average, they simulate about two minutes, but they aren't all the same. Once my characters get into combat, I keep track of things by rounds. When the dust settles, I just declare how much time has passed by what feels right. J. Michael Neal ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 21:56:34 +0100 From: "CA Smith" Subject: IN> Magog Everyone seems uptight about Kalid, true it's one of, if not _the_, worst Superior write ups so far (I do like Dark Kalid though). There are a few inconsistencies (I don't think I spelt that right but...) with Magog. A demon prince who, when he fell, laughed in David's face (his former superior, for those who don't have tFT) and Davids reaction was with the help of a young Kalid sealed him under Egypt, sorry I just don't see that happening. IMHO david would at least try to rip him force from force, and get quite close to destroying Magaog, or Magog running to hell where even David won't follow on his own with or without Kalid future AA of Faith. Also Gabriels new rite of 5 essence for the destruction of a servitor of Magog draining most of her reserves, I thought that Magog only had about 50 servitors and unless they are all wiped out I can't see this affecting Gabriel too much. Chris Smith Gremlim of Vapula Why do Calabim of Belial think bigger is better? a little snip here, a little snip there... and all hell breeaks loose! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 16:59:31 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Hellacious stats Eeyore wrote: > If it makes anybody feel better, I have never yet met a role- > playing system in which the time frame of combat rounds gave > an accurate feel. I believe "Over the Edge," by Atlas Games, defines a combat round simply as a unit of action, without reference to the clock, in a manner similar to your Squad Leader friends. This is probably an example of extremes meeting, since "Over the Edge" is one of the least number-crunchy games around. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 07:26:06 +1000 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: IN> Spawn v3.0 G'day. Well, if everyone else is talking about supers characters, I may as well chuck my hat in the ring. It's easier than working. First point to note is this - I hate Spawn. I think it's a crap title, poorly written and drawn in a style that I personally find uninteresting. When I was working in a comic store, all the staff were dead against Spawn and resented the fact that its popularity often acted to crowd the comics _we_ liked out of the marketplace. But I digress. Anyway, this distaste for the character either completely disqualifies me for this write-up, or make my the most qualified. Now, Spawn. I think making the character a Celestial is the wrong idea. The most important part of the character's background is that he was human, and sold his soul to the Devil to return to his wife. That says undead to me - specifically, a Mummy. That gives him more Forces than humans, and the ability to use all Songs and many Attunements. As Superior, I'm inclined to agree that Baal makes the best choice. It's worth noting that in his determination to stay out of Hell's control, Spawn has become a Renegade Undead, a thing almost unheard of. And yet Baal allows him this freedom for some reason, and prevents Asmodeus from simply capturing the upstart Mummy. Odd. Now, you can't reflect the comics version perfectly in IN. Spawn has enormous powers, but a finite source of power for those abilities. You could do that with a huge Essence battery that never recharges, but that'd be overly unwieldy. In the end, compromises had to be made. If you don't like this version, you can blame my disinterest in the character. If you like it, send money... SPAWN (Al Simmons), Renegade Mummy, allegedly in service to Baal CORPOREAL FORCES: 3 Strength: 7 Agility: 5 ETHEREAL FORCES: 2 Intelligence: 4 Precision: 6 CELESTIAL FORCES: 2 Perception: 3 Will: 5 ESSENCE: 7 ATTUNEMENTS: Art of Combat SKILLS: Climbing/2, Detect Lies/2, Dodge/4, Fighting/5, Large Weapon/3, Move Silently/4, Ranged Weapon/6, Survival/3, Tactics/3 SONGS: Form (Corporeal/2, Celestial/2), Motion (Celestial/4) DISCORD: Ugly/4, Murderous/2 (mainly to minimize Essence regeneration). ARTIFACT: Costume. Not sure about costs and values, but it has Corporeal Motion/(2 or 3) and NC: Tails/5 (chains), plus a reliquary for these Songs and any other Essence expenditure. NOTES: All skill levels and other numbers are largely pulled out of my ars... imagination. The costume pushes the Resources cost up pretty high, but also serves as a source of major plot complication and isn't really under Spawn's control. Actually, since the costume is meant to be a Demon (Imp?), you could make a case for it being a powerful Servant bought at a very low level (costing only about 4 points in that case). Enjoy. - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia Las Vegas is a society of armed masturbators / gambling is the kick here / sex is extra / weird trip for high rollers... house-whores for winners, hand jobs for the bad luck crowd. HUNTER S. THOMPSON, "Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 98 17:34 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> game quotes and a q. >Can someone clarify the statement about using acrobatics in addition to >dodge when trying to dodge non-missle attacks? I'm afraid I don't have >the page reference handy, but I was trying to figure this out yesterday, >and I'm still not getting anywhere. I was looking at this not long ago. (I don't have the book handy right now, though.) I think it's something like the CD of a successful Acrobatics roll adds to the target number for Dodge. I think this follows from a similar rule in GURPS, actually. I believe the actual description of the mechanism is in the Acrobatics skill description. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 16:43:21 -0500 From: Eeyore Subject: IN> Not Spawn... Enough with the combat monster comic book characters. Anyone care to take a shot at writing up Pfirsich Rommel, the Desert Peach? Now _there's_ a comic book character that would be interesting in In Nomine. I'd do it myself, but I have a few too many irons in the fire right now. J. Michael Neal ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 14:41:15 -0700 From: Stephen Gingell Subject: Re: IN> Hellacious stats Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > I believe "Over the Edge," by Atlas Games, defines a combat round > simply as a unit of action, without reference to the clock, in > a manner similar to your Squad Leader friends. This is > probably an example of extremes meeting, since "Over the Edge" > is one of the least number-crunchy games around. > > Earl Wow, what do you do when you need to "Hold this position until reinforcements arrive in 10 minutes"? Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 18:01:13 -0400 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> Hellacious stats Walter Milliken wrote: > The FAQ and the errata are quite clear on this, actually. Elizabeth and > John (the official-type people here on the list) are likely to just > point you there. Heh. Walter and David are in the know well enough that if they are _right_ (or their opinion is the same as mine), I don't bother to answer sometimes. Especially if its a nit-picky point or rules-interpretation rather than a canon difficulty. > >Max human attibute is 10, not 12 (I think). Add a Dodge skill of 4-6 and > >Bobiel's your celestial guardian. Such a character would have to be > >4-1-1forces, though, or 3-(2,1) if you have Agility 8, Dodge 6. They > >wouldprobably suck at almost anything else. > > > >---- Actually, that was including the addition of the Forces, with > >Agility 5, Dodge 6, Corporeal Forces 3. > > This is definitely incorrect, as I read the rules/errata/FAQ. Only the > *attack* skills get the Forces bonus, not the defensive ones. Very correct. Bonuses on attacks make for faster combat. Big bonuses on defenses make for interminable combats. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)388-2665(COOL) MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 08:02:42 +1000 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> Hellacious stats Stephen Gingell wrote: > Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > > > I believe "Over the Edge," by Atlas Games, defines a combat round > > simply as a unit of action, without reference to the clock, in > > a manner similar to your Squad Leader friends. This is > > probably an example of extremes meeting, since "Over the Edge" > > is one of the least number-crunchy games around. > > Wow, what do you do when you need to "Hold this position until > reinforcements arrive in 10 minutes"? Reinforcements? On Al Amarja? What a concept. Next you'll be talking about reliable allies... Off hand, if I wanted to do such a thing in OtE, I might decide on an arbitrary length of time for each round (say 1 second or 1 minute). I might break it down into a couple of scenes of indeterminate length and roleplay each, then say that took ten minutes. Or I might use gestalt combat to sum up the 10 minute battle, where the players roll all their dice once and add 'em up, I roll all the NPC dice and add 'em up. The highest roll total wins and we roleplay out the course of the fight to get to the predicted end (the roleplay can influence or alter the result of the dice if done well). Boy is that off topic. I'm outta here. - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia Las Vegas is a society of armed masturbators / gambling is the kick here / sex is extra / weird trip for high rollers... house-whores for winners, hand jobs for the bad luck crowd. HUNTER S. THOMPSON, "Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 18:15:20 -0400 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> game quotes and a q. Tim Seiger wrote: > Finally, my question: > > Can someone clarify the statement about using acrobatics in addition to > dodge when trying to dodge non-missle attacks? I'm afraid I don't have > the page reference handy, but I was trying to figure this out yesterday, > and I'm still not getting anywhere. "The Acrobatics skill may sometimes be combined with Dodge." In Nomine, p.73 Yep, that's what it says, but I don't like it very much. Argumentative players can try to make sure that _every_ dodge is an acrobatic one to try to avoid damage. And heaven help you if they have high enough levels of each to get automatic success bonuses. Argh! How _I_ run it is that only under rare circumstances do you get the bonus (the 'may sometimes' clause in the above quote). Avoiding the telephone pole that is swinging toward your character. Getting out of the way of that rampaging elephant. Ducking behind cover when the grenade goes off. Additionally, I usually make the player blow their action (a Full Dodge) to take advantage of the Acrobatic bonus. When you _do_ allow it, it means that your Acrobatics Skill level adds to your Dodge Skill target number. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)388-2665(COOL) MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 18:29:28 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Spawn Just as a mention, all this already got talked about quite some time ago -- check the archives. (Off of the http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine site somewhere.) I'd *reallllllly* rather not get back into that again -- after about a half-dozen posts on IN stats for movie characters, I get really bored. And those half-dozen posts happened long ago. - --Beth, Demon Princess of List Administration ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 18:48:41 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Hellacious stats At 3:29 AM -0400 10/5/98, eswhanu@juno.com wrote: >On Wed, 23 Sep 1998 eswhanu@juno.com wrote: >I dunno if that ever got errata'd, but my impression was that this is a >changing-your-mind-while-you-write-the-book thing. The correct combat >target number is (relevant power attribute) + (relevant combat skill) + >(assorted modifiers). Adding forces is only ever mentioned for combat, >and >never in the same paragraph as a mention of combat skills... > >---- This is the way I have been doing it, but according to everyone I >have played In Nomine with at a convention, "I'm doing it all wrong". >Just trying to get a clarification (any official-type person out that can >give me a response to this?). http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/errata The correct Target Number for corporeal is (Strength + Corporeal Forces + Brawling/Weapon skill + whatever modifiers). Unless sending Tetherbook in has totally fried my brains. Dodge is (Agility + Dodge Skill). This is so that Munchkin Fighters can still whip Munchkin Dodgers, I suspect. The solution? Don't get into slugfests. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 18:45:46 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> A couple of questions At 3:22 PM -0400 10/5/98, EEEAMEEH wrote: >Hi there. Just a few questions that I thought of and wondered if >someone could answer them for me. > >1. What is the maximum number of forces a Soldier or Sorcerer can >achieve. I know they have to have 6 Forces at the begining (either >natural or given to them) but can they increase it. 15. Because they can only get stats of 10. (Celestials get 12 as the cap.) >2. Can Sorcerer's use Ethereal songs? What about Dream Soldiers for >example Soldiers of Blandine and Beleth or certain worshipers of >Ethereals? Dream Soldiers, yes. Some sorcerers, yes -- this needs some more clarification, which will forthcome someday. >3. Servitors of Gabriel must punish the cruel they have detected in >3 days or suffer disonance, and then go on to a next person. But >what if, say an Elohim, detects a sadist and before he punishes them >detects an even crueler person. Does he have to punish the first >before going after the second or suffer disonance or can she go >after the big fish and pick up the little one later, perhaps after >the 3 days have elapsed without the pain. First first, second, second, I believe the intent is. But if they get the first as well, the dissonance fades. (Also, Da Boss Lady will probably forgive them.) >4. Does anyone know what my fourth question was? I've forgotten. You were going to ask if I was in a weird mood. The answer is yes. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 19:07:39 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Magog At 9:56 PM +0100 10/5/98, CA Smith wrote: >A demon prince who, when he fell, laughed in David's face (his >former superior, for those who don't have tFT) and Davids reaction was with >the help of a young Kalid sealed him under Egypt, Instead of killing him? Yes. You see, what crueler thing, than to laugh in your former Archangel's face *when he can't hit first*. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 23:26:34 +0100 From: Rhodri James Subject: Re: IN> [NPC] Nutter, Calabite of Baal In article <3618E050.6586@mc.com>, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > Does "dodgy" mean "illegal" or "shady" or what? It means "borderline illegal", sort of, a bit, would I lie to you guvner? Actually, thinking about it, Terry Pratchett's character "Cut-me-own-throat Dibbler" is the very epitome of dodgy characters; not a lot of what he does is obviously outright illegal, immoral or (in Dibbler's case anyway) fattening, but you are automatically suspicious whenever he appears, and leave with the faint impression that he's pulled a fast one on you, if only you could work out what it was. - -- Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste herder to the masses If you don't know who I work for, you can't misattribute my words to them ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 20:40:33 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Magog At 7:07 PM -0400 10/5/98, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >At 9:56 PM +0100 10/5/98, CA Smith wrote: >>A demon prince who, when he fell, laughed in David's face (his >>former superior, for those who don't have tFT) and Davids reaction was with >>the help of a young Kalid sealed him under Egypt, > >Instead of killing him? Yes. You see, what crueler thing, than to laugh >in your former Archangel's face *when he can't hit first*. As a note, GR "Maya" Cogman came up with this, and I forgot to credit her with it. She's an evil genius. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 20:33:29 -0400 From: werther@hilander.com (...jason schneiderman...) Subject: Re: IN> Not Spawn... >Enough with the combat monster comic book characters. Anyone care to >take a shot at writing up Pfirsich Rommel, the Desert Peach? You're on. :) Just finished reading some of the collections... I'm thinking an Elohite or Mercurian in service to Michael. Sound right? - -J ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 01:44:16 +0100 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN> Hellacious stats >> >>---- This is the way I have been doing it, but according to everyone I >>have played In Nomine with at a convention, "I'm doing it all wrong". >>Just trying to get a clarification (any official-type person out that can >>give me a response to this?). > You _are_ doing it all wrong :) (and so am I for that matter), but it does seem to work a little better. > >Overall, you're seeing more evidence of the cinematic design leanings -- >faster combat is better for a game which isn't really about combat, even >at the expense of some realism. (If you've ever seen competent GURPS >fighters in combat, with half-way decent armor, you'd know why they >opted to leave out the realism aspects of combat in IN....) > I had considered that the reason that Forces started getting added in to the fighting equation was actually to *promote* realism. If you assume that a fit, young, healthy male has a Str of 4 and no skill in fighting, that means that he punches another human only on a 3. Adding forces in seemed to be a way to give slightly more realistic odds. I agree BTW that In Nomine isn't really about combat (conflict, yes), but that errata - especially if you say that the added forces get to apply _only_ to attacks - somewhat emphasises it. > >>> I don't think I read the section wrong, as I just came from a gaming> >>convention and my Soldier of God that the GM looked over for me came out> >>with a Dodge of 14 or less, but is anyone as confused as I? >> >>Max human attibute is 10, not 12 (I think). Add a Dodge skill of 4-6 and >>Bobiel's your celestial guardian. Such a character would have to be >>4-1-1forces, though, or 3-(2,1) if you have Agility 8, Dodge 6. They >>wouldprobably suck at almost anything else. >> >>---- Actually, that was including the addition of the Forces, with >>Agility 5, Dodge 6, Corporeal Forces 3. > >This is definitely incorrect, as I read the rules/errata/FAQ. Only the >*attack* skills get the Forces bonus, not the defensive ones. Hmmm. Why do you think that this should be so? > >I'm pretty sure the official rules are: > >Attribute + Corp. Forces + attack skill (for combat attacks) > >and > >Attribute + skill (for all other skills) > Yep. But one thing that always puzzled me was *why* other skills don't get to add in their appropriate forces? >Note, however, that a few other things can result in nasty target number >levels -- for example, a talisman with Dodge skill in it can be >*additive* to personal Dodge skill level. So someone with skill/6 and >talisman-with-skill/6 has an effective skill/12, which is otherwise not >possible. Fortunately, talismans are fairly expensive, and also fairly >obvious -- they tend to mark you as a celestial. And they can be >stolen, or taken away at your Superior's whim. > Indeed. > >- ---Walter > - -- Julian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 19:47:43 -0500 (CDT) From: Elizabeth Bartley Subject: Re: IN> Not Spawn... On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, ...jason schneiderman... wrote: > You're on. :) Just finished reading some of the collections... I'm thinking > an Elohite or Mercurian in service to Michael. Sound right? Mercurian. Elohite wouldn't be so preoccupied with style. Elizabeth Bartley e-bartley@pobox.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 21:44:54 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> A couple of questions >>>1. What is the maximum number of forces a Soldier or Sorcerer can achieve. I know they have to have 6 Forces at the begining (either natural or given to them) but can they increase it.<<< Theoretically, yes. I don't think there is a canonical upper limit, but a mortal with more than 7 Forces should be _really_ unusual. (Like, a once-in-a-generation event, and decrease the frequency geometrically for each additional Force.) >>>2. Can Sorcerer's use Ethereal songs? What about Dream Soldiers for example Soldiers of Blandine and Beleth or certain worshipers of Ethereals?<<< Dream Soldiers can, Sorcerers cannot normally. The Ethereal Connection attunement, in the upcoming Liber Canticorum, is what allows mortals to perform Ethereal Songs. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 21:58:44 EDT From: Akumsa@aol.com Subject: IN> Game Quotes Okay a follow up from last week, new characters, except the Ofanite of Flowers (Steve), and the Malakite (Joe). "Do NOT give that guy a gun!" Lyshion, refering Simon (Who managed to shoot himself last game) "I bet my superior could kick yer superiors a$$." Tzron, Ofanite of Wind, to Lyshion, Malakite of Fire. "Whats this?" Simon, refering to a grenade. Lyshion: "DONT TOUCH THAT!" At this point, Lyshion Tackles Simon (Lyshion rolled a 666).... who had his finger in the pin. Lyshion/Simon went one way, the grenade went the other. They both wound up dead, Simon in trama. - -Big John: "When they snap out of it, I am gonna laugh in thier faces." - -Me: "Steve, why is it youre the only person who has managed to kill himself TWICE with his OWN weapons??" - -Joe: Actually hit Steve upside the head. Lyshion walks up to Simon in Trama and begins to call him every name in the book. - -Rick: "My Kyroite is going to teach Simon how to use weapons... From a distance, of course." "You know for a demon, this guy aint so bad..." Lyshion. "Whoops! You just violated yer 3rd oath." Me. (I was feeling cruel, and Lyshions 3rd oath was: Never give a Demon Credit.) "Okay... I am gonna posses the Chair, wait one second, then yank it out from under the guy as he sits down!" Rick. He blows the roll to move, then suffers a note of dissonance, as the chair breaks. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- John T Perkowski, Ofanite of Arcade Games MASTER of Attunements (Go ahead, Gimme a word and some details, and in 24 hours, you'll get yerself some attunements). "Its harder to think or act thru pain. Here try this out: Stick yer hand in a blender, then turn it on to Frappe. Now tell me yer name... Oh nice to meet you Mr.Arrghjesusfingchristhelpmearrrgggghhh."-HoL main Rulebook. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 19:56:10 -0700 From: Gryph Clarke Subject: IN> Vengence Unlimited Trying to catch up with the list after being gone for a week to have the baby.... I did manage to catch both episodes of Vengence Unlimited, and I'd be interested in hearing the opinion of the Lilim-lovers on the list. The hero of the program seems very Lilim-esque to me, as does his manner of business, and I'd love to hear if I was off-base or not, since I'm always looking to brush up my Lilim. :) - - Gryph Cherub of Middle-of-the-Night Feedings, in service to whatever lovely soul invented the Diaper Genie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 13:25:40 +1000 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> the Desert Peach Elizabeth Bartley wrote: > On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, ...jason schneiderman... wrote: > > > You're on. :) Just finished reading some of the collections... I'm thinking > > an Elohite or Mercurian in service to Michael. Sound right? > > Mercurian. Elohite wouldn't be so preoccupied with style. Okay, call me a boring old stick-in-the-landfill, but I'd say the Desert Peach would be a 5-Force human with no supernatural abilities. Not everyone has to be a Celestial, after all... - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia Las Vegas is a society of armed masturbators / gambling is the kick here / sex is extra / weird trip for high rollers... house-whores for winners, hand jobs for the bad luck crowd. HUNTER S. THOMPSON, "Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 22:59:49 -0500 From: Eeyore Subject: Re: IN> the Desert Peach > Elizabeth Bartley wrote: > > > On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, ...jason schneiderman... wrote: > > > > > You're on. :) Just finished reading some of the collections... I'm thinking > > > an Elohite or Mercurian in service to Michael. Sound right? > > > > Mercurian. Elohite wouldn't be so preoccupied with style. And he serves Destiny, whatever his species. Look at all of the people he's saving from their Fate. Imagine where poor Dobi would be without him. > Okay, call me a boring old stick-in-the-landfill, but I'd say the Desert > Peach would be a 5-Force human with no supernatural abilities. Not everyone has > to be a Celestial, after all... > > -- > Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia I'd agree with Mr. O'Duffy (except that I'd give him 6 Forces; there are just too many things he's good at) if he weren't so obviously a Mercurian. Hatred of violence; love of humanity; preoccupation with style ("It's peach-colored. Pink is tacky.") If Pfirsich isn't a Mercurian, he's met one and is trying to imitate him. He even takes Dissonance and faints when he shoots that poor Tommy. And Erwin is an Ofanite of Michael. Everyone else is human. J. Michael Neal ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 14:40:20 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Hellacious stats On Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 06:48:41PM -0400, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > The correct Target Number for corporeal is (Strength + Corporeal Forces > + Brawling/Weapon skill + whatever modifiers). Unless sending Tetherbook > in has totally fried my brains. > > Dodge is (Agility + Dodge Skill). > > This is so that Munchkin Fighters can still whip Munchkin Dodgers, I > suspect. > Personally, I don't think it's necessary, on the grounds that dodging isn't a contest, it merely reduces damage, and that this is offset by the damage bonus for most weapons already. And even without the bonus, my combat characters haven't suffered much difficulty in getting badly wounded. Seeing a bonus to one type of roll annoys me, because it's inconsistent. Also, I think in general that the amount of points given to starting characters is too low, and should be upped by 50% at least, for any character who has had significant life experience (100 years or so) in Earth or Hell. I don't think giving Discord is a solution, because I don't see why I should have to make a character close to Falling in order to give them basic competence. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "We have been fortunate enough to live to a time when virtue, though it does not triumph, is nevertheless not always tormented by attack dogs." Alexander Solzhenitsyn, the Gulag Archipelago. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 08:22:17 PDT From: "Martin Arnold" Subject: IN> everything ever! hi! How's everyone enjoying armageddon? Been a while, but i just got FotM and even more just got FT. Initial reports look favourable, but I'll buy anything so you probably shouldn't take too much notice! All the Khalid/Islam discourse had me worried so I flipped straight to the write-up, or more precisely to the Invocation Modfiers I heard so much about. PLease ignore any of this if it shows that I havent read the book thoroughly enough! A Santa-Claus hat??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Well, what about the Tooth-Fairy as well ;-) I know Islam disapproves of idolatry/pix of god, etc., so I assume thatthe religious symbol modifier realates to the stuff they have instead - the beautiful calligraphy, architecture, even Sufi-dancing (maybe that's a call to prayer). My main concern is how do other religions fit into all this? Faith is a vast word and Islam is but one aspect of a greater human experience, or does Kahlid just say TSif you ain't pointing yourself toward Mecca x5/day? Onto other things... Um, what does a Shedite of Asmodeus do with his free 12 Cp's - he has no role being a Shedite, can he spend them on somethng else, free servitor attunement instead. (Or money back if not completely satisfied!) Wil we have to ait for the next 'cycle' for the rest of the superiors - please dont do that. Im serious, i really believe that you shopuld get the info out omn these guys ASAP. they are the most important part of the background! C'mon! Plus i need Janus. (You now I'm good for the money!) Jo - Nutter! I laughed my arse off! Does he have a Ford Escort Xr3i as an artifact (Turbo Nutter Bastard!) Fnord Escort, that is! Oh boy! Have you seen the Comic Strip Presents... Yob? (Plus one of my player's brothers is nicknamed 'tenbellies', spooky!) Perhaps he also hs a servant in the form of a dog-on-a-string (a little out of character I know!). Favoured Waepon - A snooker cue (or any old lager bottle - something 'kraut' obviously, very ironic!). Favoured dress - ill fitting tight jeans with turnups, white socks and slipons. Bomber jacket sewn up with football patches. Haircut from Hell. Unbelievably is actually married/in a long term relationship! Favourite chant (of many): "You're gonna get your f*&^%$Łg heads kicked in!" Or "you're going home inna f*&^%$Łg ambulance!" Yes these people are for real! ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH! Have fun everyone! Magoo DP of Short-sightedness! Marnie (Felippe - i havent forgotten!) PS OOh, anyone else here have ICQ? It'd be nice to have a little r/t discourse on our fave game, eh! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 17:41:59 +0200 (CEST) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> the Desert Peach On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, Eeyore wrote: > I'd agree with Mr. O'Duffy (except that I'd give him 6 Forces; there are just too > many things he's good at) if he weren't so obviously a Mercurian. Hatred of > violence; love of humanity; preoccupation with style ("It's peach-colored. Pink is > tacky.") If Pfirsich isn't a Mercurian, he's met one and is trying to imitate him. > He even takes Dissonance and faints when he shoots that poor Tommy. Well, I can imagine a human having those same traits. There are plenty of people acting like stereotypical celestials here in the Real World(TM), after all. Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! May you have the knowledge of a sage, and the wisdom of a child. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 98 12:06 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Hellacious stats >>Overall, you're seeing more evidence of the cinematic design leanings -- >>faster combat is better for a game which isn't really about combat, even >>at the expense of some realism. (If you've ever seen competent GURPS >>fighters in combat, with half-way decent armor, you'd know why they >>opted to leave out the realism aspects of combat in IN....) >> >I had considered that the reason that Forces started getting added in to >the fighting equation was actually to *promote* realism. I really suspect it was mostly combat speed. >If you assume that a fit, young, healthy male has a Str of 4 and no >skill in fighting, that means that he punches another human only on a 3. >Adding forces in seemed to be a way to give slightly more realistic >odds. Humans generally don't do very well at anything, by strict use of the rules. The mechanics are really geared to celestial-level characters. (And sometimes *they* don't do very well at things, but one can find semi-reasonable excuses for that -- "I didn't know it was loaded....") >>This is definitely incorrect, as I read the rules/errata/FAQ. Only the >>*attack* skills get the Forces bonus, not the defensive ones. > >Hmmm. Why do you think that this should be so? 1) Because that's what the errata says. 2) Because John (the IN netrep) confirmed this. 3) And because I live with the Line Editor.... And I'd get corrected in play if this weren't canon.... >Yep. But one thing that always puzzled me was *why* other skills don't >get to add in their appropriate forces? As I said above, I'm pretty sure this was a patch to speed up combats by making attacks more effective than defenses. Even so, characters with a lot of body hits take a *long* time to go down. I should note that I'm not a great fan of the IN character attribute and skill mechanics, being somewhat realistically inclined, myself, but they *are* pretty simple. And I haven't really had that much trouble with them in play. The real problem is representing a character who ought to have a fair number of skills at a decent level -- IN doesn't handle jack-of-all-trades types well at all. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 17:07:29 +0100 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: Re: IN> everything ever! >Um, what does a Shedite of Asmodeus do with his free 12 Cp's - he has no >role being a Shedite, can he spend them on somethng else, free servitor >attunement instead. (Or money back if not completely satisfied!) I'd be tempted not to give it the 12cp at all. Those Shedim already have a major bennie over those in service to other superiors because they've got no band dissonance condition -- that's plenty IMO. Also, Shedim and Kyrios always have more points to spend than other characters anyway because of not having to buy vessels. (To even up the character creation, it's tempting to give all other PCs a vessel/2 for free and let them spend cp to add to the level if they want to do so.) >Does he have a Ford Escort Xr3i as an artifact (Turbo Nutter Bastard!) >Fnord Escort, that is! Oh boy! *rotfl* OK, I was laughing aloud when I saw that! (Turbo Nutter Bastard -- I can see it now...) Very tempted now to go on and do some more English stereotypes :) jo ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #965 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.