From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Oct 7 13:06:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA22098 for ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:06:25 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id MAA00124 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:42:35 -0500 Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:42:35 -0500 Message-Id: <199810071742.MAA00124@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #968 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, October 7 1998 Volume 01 : Number 968 In this digest: IN> Re: IN- A cute and fuzzy bunny, perhaps? IN> Mortals using Songs IN> stuff Re: IN> stuff Re: IN> More Lilim craziness Re: IN> stuff Re: IN> A cute and fuzzy bunny, perhaps? IN> Shedim of the Game (Was: everything ever!) Re: IN> A cute and fuzzy bunny, perhaps? Re: IN> Intervention weirdness IN> In Nomine Berlin Re: IN> A cute and fuzzy bunny, perhaps? Re: IN> Intervention weirdness Re: IN> More Lilim craziness Re: IN> A cute and fuzzy bunny, perhaps? Re: IN> Possible Compendium of rules and Superiors Re: IN> Mortals using Songs Re: IN> Re: IN- [FICTION] Harvesting Forces Re: IN> In Nomine Berlin Re: IN> In Nomine Berlin Re: IN> More Lilim craziness Re: IN> More Lilim craziness Re: IN> More Lilim craziness Re: IN> More Lilim craziness Re: IN> A cute and fuzzy bunny, perhaps? Re: IN> More Lilim craziness - Lunches Re: IN> Possible Compendium of rules and Superiors Re: IN> Re: IN- A couple of questions Re: IN> More Lilim craziness Re: IN> Re: IN- A couple of questions Re: IN> A cute and fuzzy bunny, perhaps? Re: IN> More Lilim craziness Re: IN> Possible Compendium of rules and Superiors Re: IN> A cute and fuzzy bunny, perhaps? Re: IN> Hellacious stats (& Dodge Monsters!) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 02:58:58 PDT From: "Micheal Knight" Subject: IN> Re: IN- A cute and fuzzy bunny, perhaps? <> Given that other superiors (Kronos comes to mind. Claims he's a Balseraph, always looks like an old human man) demonstrate wildly different celestial forms, I'd answer "Whatever Novalis WANTS to look like." That means retro-hippies in Heaven, if she likes. Micheal ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 06:23:46 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Mortals using Songs >>>So, oh In Nomine canon masters, what is the philsophical reasoning behind this? Why can't any mortal learn any song of any sphere?<<< For the same reason most mortals don't have any kind of conscious access to the ethereal or celestial planes. Being entirely corporeal beings, they lack the fundamental connection to the higher planes it requires to perform Songs in those realms. It requires a Superior, altering their nature, to grant them such a connection. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 03:39:00 PDT From: "Martin Arnold" Subject: IN> stuff Jo, are you sure Shedim have no Band Dissoance (I cannot type that word!)? What about the rule about having to corrupt their host further each day; specifically failing to do so? Just my luck...they show The Prophecy on TV (well Channel 5) over here, last week, and i miss the first half. But what I saw; WOW! Gabriel, played by CHristopher walken is one BADASS MF! But the scene at the end when the soul is released and the Heavens open is stunning visually; you get a glimpse of some Malakim (*g*) in the skies all in black against a dark, cloudy sky with shafts of heavenly light pouring through! Sublime! All this talk of comicbook characters reminded me of the old Nemesis the Wrlock chaacter in 2000AD here in England. My point? Well the setting (some far future oppresed Earth ruled by an extreme fascist dictator named Torquemada who hated ANY kind of deviance) is the perfect Hades. Visually it was alweays stunning to llok at with Kevin O'Neill's gothic/wierd artwork. Check it out - it was very inventive. I can just picture Asmodeus saying: "Be Pure, Be vigilant, Behave!" I actually had a plot idea revolving around a superhero thang! Some disillusioned Soldiers of Laurence get corrupted by Kobal and end up believng they can fight crime and 'make a difference' by dressing up in bizzare costumes and flaunting odd powers! Or maybe a group of Habbalah, as they still think they're still doing good. Ah, Kobal, where would we be without you! Marnie - playing the 'may i help you riff!' ICQ on 19005332... 'Men plan, God laughs' ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 11:54:24 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> stuff On Wed, Oct 07, 1998 at 03:39:00AM -0700, Martin Arnold wrote: > Jo, are you sure Shedim have no Band Dissoance (I cannot type that > word!)? What about the rule about having to corrupt their host further > each day; specifically failing to do so? > I believe she was referring to the Shedim of the Game attunement, which like the Habbalite of Lust and Impudite of Death attunements, exempts them from Band Dissonance. > All this talk of comicbook characters reminded me of the old Nemesis the > Wrlock chaacter in 2000AD here in England. My point? Well the setting > (some far future oppresed Earth ruled by an extreme fascist dictator > named Torquemada who hated ANY kind of deviance) is the perfect Hades. > Visually it was alweays stunning to llok at with Kevin O'Neill's > gothic/wierd artwork. Check it out - it was very inventive. I can just > picture Asmodeus saying: "Be Pure, Be vigilant, Behave!" > I see the Gulag Archipelago as the model for Hades. The following quote sums it up: "Who among us has not experienced its all-encompassing embrace? In all truth, there is no step, thought, action, or lack of action under the heavens, which could not be punished by the heavy hand of Article 58." But this one is nice as well: The breadth of interpretation of Section 6 lay further in the fact that people were sentenced not only for actual espionage but also for: PSh - Suspicion of Espionage- NSh - Unproven Espionage- for which they gave the whole works. And even SVPSh - Contacts Leading to (!) Suspicion of Espionage. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "We have been fortunate enough to live to a time when virtue, though it does not triumph, is nevertheless not always tormented by attack dogs." Alexander Solzhenitsyn, the Gulag Archipelago. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 12:21:09 +0100 From: Sam Kington Subject: Re: IN> More Lilim craziness Jo Hart wrote: > >( Technically, Geases > >are additive -- 6 lunches = Geas/6. The GM may easily choose to not > >allow this! > > Yeah ;-) The system is broken, just say no to stacking geases. Or allow Lilim to stack Geases, but on a geometric scale/some other conversion factor. For instance: 2 Geas/1 -> Geas/2 2 Geas/2 -> Geas/3 2 Geas/3 -> Geas/4 ... (32 Geas/1 -> Geas/6) or 2 Geas/1 -> Geas/2 3 Geas/2 -> Geas/3 4 Geas/3 -> Geas/4 ... (360 Geas/1 -> Geas/6) or, for instance, require 7 1-day Geases for a week Geas (which I think works out pretty much the same as the second system). Sam - -- INWO Homebrew: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/inwo/ More of my stuff: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ Not my employer's opinion, no snappy quote ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:24:59 +0100 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: Re: IN> stuff Kevin wrote: >I believe she was referring to the Shedim of the Game attunement, which >like the Habbalite of Lust and Impudite of Death attunements, exempts them >from Band Dissonance. That was what I meant, unless I remembered it wrongly :) - -- I do remember Nemesis the Warlock. Torquemada was a brilliant character, and I seem to remember he was almost always robed and hooded. Funny, that. A couple of my fave sources are 1984, and 'V for Vendetta', both of which show why the Media is probably at least as scary as the the Game if you play it right ;) V is probably an outcast elohite of judgement or wind with some wacky discords. There's a lovely scene in which he climbs up to the roof of the Old Bailey (courts of justice in London) and has a 'chat' with the statue of Justice, accusing her of being a whore -- riiiight. And I must read the Gulag Archipelago... jo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 09:41:59 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> A cute and fuzzy bunny, perhaps? BillionSix@aol.com wrote: > I have a question regarding Novalis. What does her celestial > form look like? [...] But being a Cherub her natural form is an > animal of some sort. Any ideas? A cow? *Sacred* cow, of course... A sloth? They grow algae in their fur. Something totally carnivorous, on the grounds that it does NOT EAT plants? An ant of the species that cultivates fungus gardens? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 08:52:25 -0500 From: Shadowstar Subject: IN> Shedim of the Game (Was: everything ever!) >On Tue, 6 Oct 1998, Martin Arnold wrote: > > Um, what does a Shedite of Asmodeus do with his free 12 Cp's - he has no > role being a Shedite, can he spend them on somethng else, free servitor > attunement instead. (Or money back if not completely satisfied!) This should answer the question. With the appropriate appologies and what-not. ASMODEUS: Many of his Shedim do corrupt their hosts at least a little, but Asmodeus frowns on actions that would reveal a Shedite's presence. Asmodeus' Shedim do _NOT_ get extra points for a Role. Atypically businesslike, they are nearly the ultimate spies, even daring to slip into angelic Tethers. They are also the Shedim most able to go Renegade successfully... [P. 59, Infernal Player's Guide] ...And on that note, I only wish the Outcast Kyriotate of Destiny in my group just got a clue, and joined the Game as a full-blown Shedim... He-he-he... - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centuryinter.net # Balseraph Marquis of Fate, Demon of Delusions of Granduer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 09:59:40 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> A cute and fuzzy bunny, perhaps? BillionSix@aol.com wrote: > I have a question regarding Novalis. What does her celestial > form look like? [...] But being a Cherub her natural form is an > animal of some sort. Any ideas? A bee! Why didn't I think of that first? The animal with the most symbiotic relationship to flowers AND the most social behavior. Yes, a queen bumblebee the size of a cart-horse, wreathed about in haloes of pink and green... (As G. K. Chesterton once observed of the visionary monsters in Revelation, "If this is Heaven, what might we not expect of Hell?") Actually, as Michael Knight observed, Superiors seem to be able to appear as anything they like, on any plane. But there still might be a "natural" default form behind all the shapeshifts, or at least an historical original form from before they became Archangels. Some of them (Yves, for instance, and Michael) may have been Archangels for all of time, but Novalis, I think, was promoted from the ranks. We don't have an expanded write-up on her, do we? I also agree with Stephen Gingell that Novalis is the most Christian Archangel as far as behavior goes, never mind who backs which religion. Yves seems to me rather Taoist or Zen. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 10:16:35 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Intervention weirdness Sam Kington wrote: > So I roll the luck dice. And get a 111. So Jesus (who was due to > turn up anyway that session) appears, standing on a carnival float > .... Hm. So does Jesus make cameo appearances in your campaign at all regularly? Canonical IN is deliberately vague about him; what approach are you taking? Just curious. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 16:45:51 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: IN> In Nomine Berlin Hello people. I am happy to be back with this list. My name is Haavard Faanes. I am currently studying history at the Norwegian University of Science and Technology (NUST) in Trondheim, Norway. Well, thats the introduction. I am planning on starting an angelic campaign in Berlin, Germany. I was wondering if anyone has developed this place already? Does anyone on this list run campaigns in Europe? I am interested in any information on this subject. If there are any German players on this list, you can probably help me out anyway :) Also, I have never actually run an In Nomine game before. I´ve been playing rpgs for years, but any In Nomine specific advice anyone would like to share would be very appreciated. Thanks, Haavard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 16:56:48 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: IN> A cute and fuzzy bunny, perhaps? On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > I also agree with Stephen Gingell that Novalis is the most > Christian Archangel as far as behavior goes, never mind who > backs which religion. Yves seems to me rather Taoist or Zen. I bet there are a lot of puritan christians out there who would strongly object to that remark about Novalis. True, Love is central in Christianity, but if you look at history, people have been willing to ignore that violence is a sin, but sex outside marriage? never. Just some thoughts.. :) Haavard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 16:03:04 +0100 From: Sam Kington Subject: Re: IN> Intervention weirdness Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > [I wrote] > > So I roll the luck dice. And get a 111. So Jesus (who was due to > > turn up anyway that session) appears, standing on a carnival float > > .... > > Hm. So does Jesus make cameo appearances in your campaign at > all regularly? Canonical IN is deliberately vague about him; > what approach are you taking? Just curious. Ah, well, this campaign followed on (about 2000 years after) "Hold on, I'll get a ladder", which was a one-off I adapted from a plot-seed on the mailing list a while ago. During Hold on... Jesus Incarnated, the shock of being in a mortal body messed with his mind, and he turned into a mushroom-munching mad hippy. The only angels who knew about this were a small coterie of guardian angels told to watch over God, should things go wrong, and report only to Lucifer (still the Lightbringer at this point). When it became apparent God had gone mad, Lucifer and the guardian angels Fell; more followed in time. During the campaign, one of the players (Shachachti, Habbalah of Kobal), who had played one of the fallen guardian angels in the original one-off and was playing the same character 2,000 years afterwards, was sent up to Earth. His arrival was televised on Nybbas TV, a tape of which came into the hands of Heaven. Given that all the other guardian angels had since been Redeemed, and God was showing signs of getting better, Heaven tried to Redeem Shachachti. Battle-lines were drawn in Hell between those who a) opposed it, b) favoured it (Kobal, because it would be funny, Haagenti, because he goes along with what Kobal says, Valefor, because it would be so appropriate to steal *God* back), c) didn't want to stomp on this effort in the hope that it would stir up trouble, and d) weren't too concerned. Anyway, after much palaver, Shachachti was redeemed by Eli, in the Marches, while being possessed by a demon of Nightmares. All of his original guardian angels now having returned to the light, the time was now ripe for God to snap out of Trauma, and come down to thank Shachachti. Which was when I rolled the 111. Appropriately enough, that same session also had two 666s and another 111. Sam - -- INWO Homebrew: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/inwo/ More of my stuff: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ Not my employer's opinion, no snappy quote ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:07:45 EDT From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> More Lilim craziness In a message dated 10/6/98 11:17:38 PM, emccoy@nh.ultranet.com writes: >>b) Does this mean that if she buys him lunch for a week, she can then >tell >>him to kill his wife (with a reasonable chance of forcing him to do so)? > >If she reads the Need in him for lunch every day, or a week's worth, once. >(She has to find the Need before she can fulfill it.) Technically, Geases >are additive -- 6 lunches = Geas/6. The GM may easily choose to not >allow this! I have to ask... Where is this? I don't remember seeing it in the rules. Of course, this may be one of the "Geas as discord" rules, which shouldn't apply to mortals who don't *get* discord. Mark D. Eddy (Still confused...) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 11:10:13 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> A cute and fuzzy bunny, perhaps? Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > I bet there are a lot of puritan christians out there who would > strongly object to that remark about Novalis. True, Love is > central in Christianity, but if you look at history, people > have been willing to ignore that violence is a sin, but sex > outside marriage? never. Just some thoughts.. :) I thought Eli was the one who was so carefree about sex. No? I'm sure Novalis wouldn't approve of liaisons that hurt anyone. My own impression is that, in certain times and places, you could find Christian communities that would dismiss either extramarital sex or violence as trivial sins, if committed by the the right people in the right circumstances. For instance, highly-placed men have often been able to tumble the serving wenches or keep mistresses and get off with small penances, I think. (This is just impression, I admit.) I'm sure it was harder for the women, especially if they were married. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 11:28:37 -0400 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> Possible Compendium of rules and Superiors Matthew D. Gandy wrote: > > Akumsa@aol.com wrote: > > > << Any ideas Beth or John? >> > > me? > > I believe Beth McCoy, IN Line Editor, and John Karakash, IN Netrep were being > referred to here, actually. Heh. Probably. > And for those that would immediately ask for a copy of such a collocation of > In Nomine information, should it ever be finished, no can do. I'll leave it to > Beth and John to explain why (not). :) > > -Matthew D. "Demiurge" Schweitzer-Gandy > "still looking for the face I had before the world is made" Okay, folks, OFFICIALLY there are no current plans to put out a compendium. My best GUESS is that it will be after the next cycle if it happens at all. Mind you, I want this as much as anyone... if only because keeping track of canon would soooooo much easier! Ahhhh, and the fixes we could include <*drooooooool*> ;) As to why: well, Steve looks very carefully at this product line and determines the course that will make money and still produce quality supplements. If he decides that means abandoning the current model and switching over, then so mote it be! On the subject, I don't like bindered games as the pages tend to rip out too easily. I got VERY tired of those little sticky paper-reinforcers back in elementary school. I _don't_ want to go back! ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)388-2665(COOL) MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 11:31:40 -0400 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> Mortals using Songs David Edelstein wrote: > > >>>So, oh In Nomine canon masters, what is the philsophical reasoning > behind this? Why can't any mortal learn any song of any sphere?<<< > > For the same reason most mortals don't have any kind of conscious access to > the ethereal or celestial planes. Being entirely corporeal beings, they > lack the fundamental connection to the higher planes it requires to perform > Songs in those realms. It requires a Superior, altering their nature, to > grant them such a connection. What he said. ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)388-2665(COOL) MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 11:35:20 -0400 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- [FICTION] Harvesting Forces Perry Lloyd wrote: > Can ONLY the Impudites take essence out of someone? Couldn't a > Celestial be able to just rip essence out of someone? Only impudites, in general, have that ability. Superiors have it as well and, possibly, there are little-known powers that Theft might grant. Maybe a Song or Artifact as well. There's no universe-specific reason why EVERY celestial should be able to do it, IMO. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)388-2665(COOL) MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 12:03:47 -0400 From: "Matthew D. Gandy" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Berlin Unfortunately, I have no direct experience of Berlin--never been on the continent, never really studied it in any depth. However, if you are going to run an angelic campaign in Berlin, definitely take advantage of Wim Wenders' film, "Wings of Desire," which is about angels watching over Berlin. (A more accurate English translation of the actual title would be "The Sky Over Berlin," but American distributors apparently weren't happy with that and screwed things up.) Although it is *very* dissimilar to In Nomine, it is wonderfully evocative of the problems celestials sometimes have in understanding human behavior, as well as being a great text on Berlin before the destruction of the Wall. Its descriptions of the lives of Berliners and its atmospheric cinematography are worth it all by themselves, even if you ignore the rest of the story. The only caveat is that it is long and may seem dull--it has next to no plot or suspense; you experience it more than actively watch it like other films. Hope this helps, Matthew D. "Demiurge" Schweitzer-Gandy "still looking for the face I had before the world was made" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 98 12:15 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Berlin >I am planning on starting an angelic campaign in Berlin, Germany. I was >wondering if anyone has developed this place already? Does anyone on this >list run campaigns in Europe? I believe there are several people here on the list who do England as a setting. (Sometimes it seems like there are more .uk addresses than US people here....) The original French game may have some useful stuff on Europe, if you know the language. So far, there aren't any non-US locations really detailed in the SJGames books, but some may be forthcoming, eventually. The Tethers book (currently just ended playtest) does have a number of European Tethers listed, including the main angelic one at Notre Dame. >Also, I have never actually run an In Nomine game before. I´ve been >playing rpgs for years, but any In Nomine specific advice anyone would >like to share would be very appreciated. You'll get a *lot* of it here.... Also check out the In Nomine Collection, which is accessible via the In Nomine web pages at SJGames (http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine). Look under the "Resources" section, there's a lot of useful stuff there. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 98 12:20 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> More Lilim craziness > Beth, can you write up the definite Geas/Hook guide >and I'll just link it off of the FAQ? Matters like this >shouldn't be harder than pointing at the document and saying >'read'. =) [Elizabeth, reading over my shoulder, grumbles, "Most of it's *in* FotM."] - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 98 12:23 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> More Lilim craziness > An >example of a slightly harder task is, assume Joe Doe is a single parent who >needs to find a reliable babysitter for a couple of hours a week so that he >can work late at the office -- if the lilim proves to be such a person, >that would almost certainly count as a decent level of need. If she has >decent celestial forces (and most of them probably do) it won't be hard for >her to detect needs. Then after she has done it for a few weeks she can >even get him to murder his own children. And after a few weeks of babysitting, *she'll* Need that.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:23:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> More Lilim craziness On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Jo Hart wrote: > >Sort of, the Lilim says, "Dear. Kill your wife." And for a moment the > >guy is *considering* this as perfectly logical. Then he makes his Will > >roll and we all find out if he can refuse or not... > > Average human has average essence of about 2.5 at any time (d1-4 from the > impudite write-up) and has average WP of 3 (which is reduced by the level > of the initial favour for the purposes of resisting the geas). Even > assuming he was full of essence, this gives him a total of 7 to resist, > which is only a 50% chance of doing so, and the lilim can use songs of > Celestial Charm to make it easier... Don't forget about the Geas level subtracting from the roll. Basically, a human CAN'T resist a Geas/6 under most circumstances. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! ::: Thinking about a Tampa Bay Devival in the future - email me! ::: Or go to http://www.cris.com/~pkitty (hell, go there anyways!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 98 12:26 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> More Lilim craziness >>If she reads the Need in him for lunch every day, or a week's worth, once. >>(She has to find the Need before she can fulfill it.) Technically, Geases >>are additive -- 6 lunches = Geas/6. The GM may easily choose to not >>allow this! > >I have to ask... Where is this? I don't remember seeing it in the rules. Main book, p. 149, next to last paragraph under the Lilim "Game Mechanics" heading. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 18:26:58 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: IN> A cute and fuzzy bunny, perhaps? On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > I thought Eli was the one who was so carefree about sex. No? > I'm sure Novalis wouldn't approve of liaisons that hurt anyone. My impression is that Novalis would encourage any expression of love that doesnt hurt anyone. This would also include homosexuality. Another thing that a lot of christian communities have a problem accepting. > My own impression is that, in certain times and places, > you could find Christian communities that would dismiss > either extramarital sex or violence as trivial sins, if > committed by the the right people in the right circumstances. I´m studying Norwegian medeival history these days. They seemed to have a very casual view towards both issues. :) > For instance, highly-placed men have often been able to tumble > the serving wenches or keep mistresses and get off with small > penances, I think. (This is just impression, I admit.) I'm > sure it was harder for the women, especially if they were > married. Your probably right about all this. In some places women might get away with it, but they would probably be in serious trouble if they got pregnant. (double standards is fun :) Haavard, probably straying off topic... *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 98 12:32 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> More Lilim craziness - Lunches >> And for most people, I'd say this Need is too trivial for a Need/1. It >> might qualify if it was a starving man, or a street beggar -- someone >> who had no easy way to get food for themselves without substantial work. >> A Need/1 is equivalent to an hour's task for the recipient -- most >> people don't have to work for an hour to earn enough for a simple meal. > > Minimum wage: circa $5/hour, before taxes. Chop off a third of >that: $3.33 ... now, admittedly, I feed two people for $20 a week, >generally, but most people really really don't want to do that. > > $3.35 won't get you dinner at Mickey D's :) I considered that, but eating out isn't exactly cost-effective. If the person Needed a meal, they could go to a store and pick up stuff fairly cheap. Now, if the Need was "eat at a *real* restaurant for a change", then that might work out. And buying someone dinner at a really fancy four-star place would certainly count, if that's what the Need was. But then, most people would be a bit suspicious of the motives of someone who just came up to them on the street and said, "How would you like a nice dinner at Antonio's -- I'm buying?" Certainly *I'd* be suspicious. TANSTAAFL.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 98 12:33 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Possible Compendium of rules and Superiors >Does anyone out there think that putting the new superiors and and extended >superior writeups from the Revelations Cycle under 1 cover, along with the new >rules on saints, soldiers etc.? >Just a thought. >Any ideas Beth or John? People who know the answers to this sort of question generally aren't allowed to answer them.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 98 12:43 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- A couple of questions >Received: from mailer1.bbn.com (MAILER1.BBN.COM [128.89.34.7]) > by wolfe.bbn.com (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id CAA10623 > for ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 02:03:38 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from cam-smtp1.bbn.com (cam-smtp1.bbn.com [171.78.73.4]) > by mailer1.bbn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id CAA25146 > for ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 02:03:35 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) > by cam-smtp1.bbn.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA26303 > for ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 02:07:09 -0400 (EDT) >Received: (from majordom@localhost) > by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id BAA30908 > for in_nomine-l-outgoing; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 01:04:21 -0500 >X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com using -f >Received: from gdi4.gdi.net (gdi4.gdi.net [209.26.2.66]) > by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id BAA30905 > for ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 01:04:19 -0500 >Received: from gdi.net (usr5-03.gdi.net [209.26.37.3]) by gdi4.gdi.net (8.8.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA07141 for ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 02:04:44 -0400 >Message-ID: <361B0433.3B5D5D5A@gdi.net> >Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 02:03:31 -0400 >From: "Matthew D. Gandy" >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) >MIME-Version: 1.0 >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- A couple of questions >References: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Sender: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > >Homayoun Saleh wrote: > >> [snip] >> >> Hmm... this strikes me a cannonically false. I believe a Class 6 >> servant (as per main rulebook, pg.45) is "an experienced solider or undead >> with 7 forces". Hence for 3 character points you can have one as a level >> 1 servant... surely if a 7 force mortal were THAT rare, it wouldn't be so >> easy to aquire one... > > I think you are relying upon a faulty reading of that phrase. It should be >interpreted as a servant who is *either* "an experienced Soldier" or an >"Undead with 7 Forces", *not* "an experienced Soldier or Undead, both of which >are 7 Forces NPCs". The way the commas are placed, and the prior description in level 5, suggests to me that he's reading it right -- that's intended to be a 7-Force Soldier. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:45:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> More Lilim craziness On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Walter Milliken wrote: > > Beth, can you write up the definite Geas/Hook guide > >and I'll just link it off of the FAQ? Matters like this > >shouldn't be harder than pointing at the document and saying > >'read'. =) > > [Elizabeth, reading over my shoulder, grumbles, "Most of it's *in* > FotM."] [PK, reading this, grumbles, "Not all of us want to pay $20 to have a hardcopy of a few FAQ answers."] Seriously, though, not all of us are going to buy FotM, and this DOES come under the definition of FAQ.... - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! ::: Thinking about a Tampa Bay Devival in the future - email me! ::: Or go to http://www.cris.com/~pkitty (hell, go there anyways!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 98 12:41 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- A couple of questions > Hmm... this strikes me a cannonically false. I believe a Class 6 >servant (as per main rulebook, pg.45) is "an experienced solider or undead >with 7 forces". Hence for 3 character points you can have one as a level >1 servant... surely if a 7 force mortal were THAT rare, it wouldn't be so >easy to aquire one... The class doesn't really speak to rarity -- that's for the GM to decide. A 5-Force human with 20 extra points could easily be a multimillionaire (Status 6) by game mechanics, and only a level 5 servant, but that doesn't mean I'd consider it reasonable or common.... 7-Force humans may be a bit more common with Soldiers of God (demons don't want the competition...), but I'd be pretty dubious about them getting much higher than that -- that's already 2 added Forces, on a race which rarely has the potential to have even 1 Force added. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:39:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> A cute and fuzzy bunny, perhaps? On Wed, 7 Oct 1998 BillionSix@aol.com wrote: > I have a question regarding Novalis. What does her celestial form look like? I > have trouble picturing her in anything other than her retro-hippie look (which > I like...It's so her!) But being a Cherub her natural form is an animal of > some sort. Any ideas? Best answer is still the one on the INC, IMO... A hummingbird. (If it has to be a predator, then make it a ladybug.) - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! ::: Thinking about a Tampa Bay Devival in the future - email me! ::: Or go to http://www.cris.com/~pkitty (hell, go there anyways!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:00:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> More Lilim craziness I liked that third suggestion about stacking Geasa - making it TIME based actually seems more fair and easier to deal with than either geometric progression...let's see... 1 Geas/2 = 24 Geasa/1 1 Geas/3 = 7 Geasa/2 = 168 Geasa/1 1 Geas/4 = ~4 Geasa/3 = 30 Geasa/2 = 720 Geasa/1 1 Geas/5 = 6 Geasa/4 = 26 Geasa/3 = 182 Geasa/2 = 4,380 Geasa/1 1 Geas/6 = 2 Geasa/5 = 12 Geasa/4 = 52 Geasa/3 = 365 Geasa/2 = 8,760 Geasa/1 This actually INVERTS the second suggestion, because it makes it easier to combine Geasa as they get higher up. Well, I like that! I don't like the thought of a Lilim spending a day accumulating a few dozen Geasa/1 on a guy and ending up with a Geas/4 out of it. With this system, Geasa/1 are practically uncombinable - you HAVE to go for at least '/2s to get anything worthwhile out of it, and even those are low value. However, if a Lilim goes through the DIFFICULT time and effort to actually pull off two different level 5 Needs, I don't have a problem letting her call that one Geas/6. If I get you out of jail by destroying evidence AND save your business without recourse to bankruptcy, sure, I think it's fair that you kill a stranger for me. Note: "Kill Your Wife" has always been a Geas/8 in my game unless he doesn't love her. Yes, that means it always requires stacking. Yes, I'm going to be using this new suggestion in my game, and it'll continue to be a 1:2 progression...which means it'll take FOUR Geasa/6 to get someone still in love to kill his wife (TWO of 'em if he's lost all love for her, and just ONE if he hates her). Geasa are meant to be used more subtely than that, anyways...YOU kill the wife, then using the Geas/6 to force him to be your alibi. Heh, heh, heh.... - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! ::: Thinking about a Tampa Bay Devival in the future - email me! ::: Or go to http://www.cris.com/~pkitty (hell, go there anyways!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:17:50 -0400 From: jadasc@ma.ultranet.com (Jason Schneiderman) Subject: Re: IN> Possible Compendium of rules and Superiors >Does anyone out there think that putting the new superiors and and extended >superior writeups from the Revelations Cycle under 1 cover, along with the new >rules on saints, soldiers etc.? Gosh, that would be swell, wouldn't it? Heck, they could integrate all those many pages of errata, clean up a typo or two, maybe even throw in a new story or update the political situation among the celestials. You could call it, say, In Nomine, Revised and Expanded. Or something, perhaps, a little less subtle. yours, Jason, Nybbalseraph, Demon of Game Reviews ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 18:23:05 +0100 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> A cute and fuzzy bunny, perhaps? At 12:39 07/10/98 -0400, you wrote: >On Wed, 7 Oct 1998 BillionSix@aol.com wrote: > >> I have a question regarding Novalis. What does her celestial form look like? I >> have trouble picturing her in anything other than her retro-hippie look (which >> I like...It's so her!) But being a Cherub her natural form is an animal of >> some sort. Any ideas? > >Best answer is still the one on the INC, IMO... > >A hummingbird. > Tiger lily? ;) jo - -- Jo's (desperately out of date) homepage --> http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~jhart/index.html Jo's (bland, plagiarised and devoid of ideas) IN page --> http://www.btinternet.com/~jhart/IN.html - -- ** Some of the above is indubitably true ** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:41:39 -0400 From: "Guy M. Dumas" Subject: Re: IN> Hellacious stats (& Dodge Monsters!) >I don't see anything wrong with that. We _are_ talking about angels and >demons after all! >-- >Julian The only problem is that we were taking the "Average Cop" noted in the initial Feast of Blades module included with the GM screen and running throuhg a couple of max. damage with various weapons and hand-to-hand and chuckling. Don't get me wrong...I like the system; I just feel the combat system falls short and regardless of how one wants to focus their game...combat is a staple! Guy ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #968 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.