From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Oct 7 20:56:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA21191 for ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 20:56:11 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id UAA04388 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 20:20:30 -0500 Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 20:20:30 -0500 Message-Id: <199810080120.UAA04388@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #969 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, October 7 1998 Volume 01 : Number 969 In this digest: Re: IN> More Lilim craziness Re: IN> In Nomine Berlin IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #965 IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #965 Re: IN> Hellacious stats (& Dodge Monsters!) IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #966 Re: IN> re: A New Idea Re: IN> [FICTION] Harvesting Forces Re: IN> [FICTION] Harvesting Forces IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #968 Re: IN> Possible Compendium of rules and Superiors IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #968 Re: IN> Hellacious stats (& Dodge Monsters!) IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #968 Re: IN> A cute and fuzzy bunny, perhaps? Re: IN> stuff Re: IN> More Lilim craziness Re: IN> More Lilim craziness - Lunches Re: IN> [FICTION] Harvesting Forces Re: IN> A cute and fuzzy bunny, perhaps? Re: IN> Hellacious stats (& Dodge Monsters!) Re: IN> re: A New Idea ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 13:47:45 -0400 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> More Lilim craziness Walter Milliken wrote: > > > Beth, can you write up the definite Geas/Hook guide > >and I'll just link it off of the FAQ? Matters like this > >shouldn't be harder than pointing at the document and saying > >'read'. =) > > [Elizabeth, reading over my shoulder, grumbles, "Most of it's *in* > FotM."] Heh. All that stuff, and more examples is kinda what I was getting at. Things that would be too wordy to actually put in a supplement, yet would help out people that have a hard time getting a handle on the whole process. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)388-2665(COOL) MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 20:02:15 +0200 From: Rene Kragh Pedersen Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Berlin Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > > Hello people. > > I am happy to be back with this list. My name is Haavard Faanes. I am > currently studying history at the Norwegian University of Science and > Technology (NUST) in Trondheim, Norway. Well, thats the introduction. > > I am planning on starting an angelic campaign in Berlin, Germany. I was > wondering if anyone has developed this place already? Does anyone on this > list run campaigns in Europe? [...] I am in a campaign set here in Denmark. Our characters roam around the local area most of the time, although we _have_ been outside of Denmark on more than one occasion (Norway, Tyrkey, Hong Kong springs to mind). It has certain advantages, the main one being that everyone is _very_ familiar with the setting. It is also quite a lot of fun to walk whrough Aarhus (DK's second largest city) looking at places saying things like: "That was the place where Esben teleported right into the middle of a crowded street" or "They really did a nice job repairing the church" :-) > I am interested in any information on this > subject. If there are any German players on this list, you can probably > help me out anyway :) Theonly help I can give you is: Learn a few German words to really spice it up. We once had to call some local German up on the phone and since we all speak a bit of German here in Denmark we ran the call in German which was great fun when the calling angel (me) kept stumbliung on the words and inventing bogus words when I didn't know what to say. Try it yourself, call a German zoo and ask them if they've lost a Camel lately... :-) > Also, I have never actually run an In Nomine game before. I´ve been > playing rpgs for years, but any In Nomine specific advice anyone would > like to share would be very appreciated. [...] Rules we have that I like: 1) Since we play in present time the G must be willing to accept that some people know more about certain things than he does himself. When that happens, embrace it and use it to further the story. I for instance like to throw some techno-babble into the game whenever I roll for my computer skills, both because it adds to the game and also because my GM will reward me if I do some good reasoning, sometimes even giving me the info right away without me having to roll. 2) Croc - in the original game - liked the cinaematic effect of head butts and thus rewarded the use of them. In his tradition we do the same, letting said attack form do Check Digit damage = more than kicks and punches. 3) Things that have cinematic effects should be allowed a good try without to many "realism" penalties. Examples are: - Jumping through the side window of an accelerating car - Janus followers riding riding without seat belts although painfully aware that the stunt will resolve into a possible crash (don't damage them, give them a good tumble). - A villain once got the better of two of us and decided to have some fun a la Dusk Till Dawn, so he shot us through our hands. The GM didn't give us any damage though and we didn't get penalized in our later actions either. Quite a funny scene BTW :-) ...I have more funny examples but this illustrates it I think. 4) uhm ... that's what I can think of just now ... I'm sure I had something more to say ... uhm ... orwell, take this for now :-) Regards, - -- Rene Kragh Pedersen - ------------------------------------------------------------------ If a man walks in a forest, talking to himself, with no women around ... ... ... is he still wrong? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 19:01:35 +0100 From: "CA Smith" Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #965 At 11:10 06/10/98 -0500, you wrote: > >Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 08:22:17 PDT >From: "Martin Arnold" >Subject: IN> everything ever! > >hi! How's everyone enjoying armageddon? >Been a while, but i just got FotM and even more just got FT. Initial >reports look favourable, but I'll buy anything so you probably shouldn't >take too much notice! >All the Khalid/Islam discourse had me worried so I flipped straight to >the write-up, or more precisely to the Invocation Modfiers I heard so >much about. PLease ignore any of this if it shows that I havent read the >book thoroughly enough! > >A Santa-Claus >hat??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? >Well, what about the Tooth-Fairy as well ;-) >I know Islam disapproves of idolatry/pix of god, etc., so I assume >thatthe religious symbol modifier realates to the stuff they have >instead - the beautiful calligraphy, architecture, even Sufi-dancing >(maybe that's a call to prayer). >My main concern is how do other religions fit into all this? Faith is a >vast word and Islam is but one aspect of a greater human experience, or >does Kahlid just say TSif you ain't pointing yourself toward Mecca >x5/day? > >Onto other things... > >Um, what does a Shedite of Asmodeus do with his free 12 Cp's - he has no >role being a Shedite, can he spend them on somethng else, free servitor >attunement instead. (Or money back if not completely satisfied!) > They don't get the 12 points, their attunement is different, take a look Chris Smith Gremlim of Vapula Why do Calabim of Belial think bigger is better? a little snip here, a little snip there... and all hell breeaks loose! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 18:59:04 +0100 From: "CA Smith" Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #965 At Tue, 06 Oct 1998 14:40:20 +0100, Kevin Walsh wrote: >Subject: Re: IN> Hellacious stats > >Also, I think in general that the amount of points given to starting >characters is too low, and should be upped by 50% at least, for any >character who has had significant life experience (100 years or so) in >Earth or Hell. I don't think giving Discord is a solution, because I don't >see why I should have to make a character close to Falling in order to >give them basic competence. What level of competance is this compared to, if I remember correctly you're bog standard human has -5- forces and thus -20- points generally making them gibbering piles of goo in comparisson > >Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. >- -- > "We have been fortunate enough to live to a time when virtue, though it >does not triumph, is nevertheless not always tormented by attack dogs." > Alexander Solzhenitsyn, the Gulag Archipelago. > Chris Smith Gremlim of Vapula Why do Calabim of Belial think bigger is better? a little snip here, a little snip there... and all hell breeaks loose! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 20:11:41 +0200 From: Rene Kragh Pedersen Subject: Re: IN> Hellacious stats (& Dodge Monsters!) Guy M. Dumas wrote: > > This whole combat discussion makes me smile as half way through my first > game, an experienced GM and player of mine looked at me mid way through the > first combat and grinningly said,"You've got to be kidding right? Is it > possible that you need to re-read the rules?" We chuckled together after > the game saying that you could bury his character up to his neck in sand and > give him the punt of a life time and he'd shake his head and say, "Didn't > hurt!!!" I am now in the process of rewriting the entore combat system to > incorporate such things as called shots (ie. hit locations) Being it cinematic, just let the players hit where they want to. > and more > realistic damage for weapons. Uhm... realistic? In a cinematic game? We're talking In Nomine here! > Any suggestions or rule modifications used by > others would be greatly appreciated. Yes, we play with a rule adapted from the original game: Damage dealt to humans is multiplied by three, damage dealt to demons is multiplied by two (demons are weaker than angels), and angels get normal damage. If you want humans do die more easily, simply double all damage or whatever you feel like, as long as you keep the difference all te way through the hierarchy - -- Rene Kragh Pedersen - ------------------------------------------------------------------ If a man walks in a forest, talking to himself, with no women around ... ... ... is he still wrong? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 19:11:03 +0100 From: "CA Smith" Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #966 > >Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 12:42:34 -0400 (EDT) >From: Homayoun Saleh >Subject: Re: IN> Hellacious stats (& Dodge Monsters!) > >On Tue, 6 Oct 1998, Kevin Walsh wrote: > >> On Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 06:48:41PM -0400, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >[Snip] >> > This is so that Munchkin Fighters can still whip Munchkin Dodgers, I >> > suspect. >> > >> Personally, I don't think it's necessary, on the grounds that dodging >> isn't a contest, it merely reduces damage, and that this is offset by the >> damage bonus for most weapons already. And even without the bonus, my >> combat characters haven't suffered much difficulty in getting badly >> wounded. Seeing a bonus to one type of roll annoys me, because it's >> inconsistent. > > I've noticed that in the system, a munchkin defender can pretty >much avoid serious damage from a munchkin attacker. Consider the >following two characters (just fighting skills/songs/basic equipment). > > Dodge Master Attack Monster > > Corp:5 Corp:6 > STR:8 STR:12 > AGI:12 AGI:12 > PRE:12 > > Dodge/6 > Acrobatics/6 > CorpForm/6 LW: Sword/6 > CorpHeal/6 AssaultRifles/6 > > Suit of Kevlar Talism: LW:Sword/6 > (-2 to hit with Melee) Artifact: Pow 6 Sword > (-4 to hit with F.Arms) Talism: Assault Rifles/6 > (Prot:2) Weapon: M16 Assault Rifle > >Now assume that the Dodge Master burns 2 essence into a song of Corp Form >at the start of the combat. (Prot:7). His "Damage Reduction" against >Melee Attacks is now: > > DR = Kevlar + CorpForm + Check Digit of Dodge Roll (complem.by Acrob) > = 2 + 7 + Dodge Roll (24-) (18- + 6 from Acrobatics) > = 21 + 1d6 > >vs. Missile attack, Acrobatics is not relevant, therefore his DR becomes >six less (i.e.) > > DR = 15 + 1d6 > >Now consider the worst the attacker can do. He can attack in Melee with a >power six attack, or missile with a power 8 attack (full burst). > > Melee Roll = STR + FightingSkill + Talisman - Kevlar Penalty > = 12 + 6 + 6 -2 > = 22- > > Damage From Attack = Check Digit + Power > Melee = 10+1d6 + 6 > = 16 + 1D6 > >Hence, as you can see, the Melee Attack Damage is 16+1D6 and the Melee >Damage Reduction is 21+1d6. Hence the HIGHEST melee damage (22) CANNOT >damage the MINIMUM Damage reduction (22). Granted in this case, even >adding corporeal forces to the attack roll would only bring it to an >expectation of ONE point of damage (a damage of: 22+1d6 vs a dodge of >21+1d6). > >What about Missile Attacks... > > M16 Attack Roll: Pre + Ass.Rif Skill + Talisman - Kevlar Penalty > = 12 + 6 + 6 - 4 > = 20- > > M16 Damage = Check Digit + Pow > = 8+1d6 + 8 > = 16+1d6 > >Recall that the damage reduction vs. Missiles was 15+1d6. Hence our attack >monster will do an expectation of *ONE* point of damage every time he >fires the M16 at the defense monster. > >MERCYFUL GODS! On expectation, for the price of 2 essence, our dodge >monster is invulnerable. Even an attack monster with relevant combat >skill of 6 + a talisman/6 of that skill can inflict *ONE* expectation >point of damage per attack... with a FULL M16 burst! > >Of course, the solution is to use some kind of magic against this critter >(i.e. Corp. Charm or one of the Entropy Songs). But with 5 corp. forces, >and 24 character points, you can create a character who is more or less >immune to conventional "street" weapons... you probably want to use RPG's >or LAW's against him.... > >Just thought I'd point out that there does exist a small imbalance in the >system... it would help if corp form. didn't stack with normal armor, but >that doesn't make much sense conceptually... (as Corp. Form toughens your >skin and kevlar makes it harder for the bullet to GET to your skin). > >Cheers, >Homayoun > > >> Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. If a player tries to use a Dodge monster like that you meerly say NO (and invoke your Master of the armies of god attunement) you cannot use a character of this type now go away and make a new one Chris Smith Gremlim of Vapula Why do Calabim of Belial think bigger is better? a little snip here, a little snip there... and all hell breeaks loose! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 20:27:20 +0200 From: Rene Kragh Pedersen Subject: Re: IN> re: A New Idea Eeyore wrote: [...] > You'll want to be very careful with a system that involves declaring all > > of the > characters' actions before anyone takes them. This is very similar to > the system > in the 1st Edition of DC Heroes, though that one was worse. It had > characters > declare their actions in reverse DEX order and then flip it around for > taking the > declared actions. The single most boring night I ever spent gaming was > as the > character with the lowest DEX in a DC Heroes game; every round, without > exception, my declared action was pointless by the time my turn rolled > around. > It won't be _that_ bad with your idea, but the characters with the > lowest > perceptions are going to find this happening to them on a semi-regular > basis and > the players will get very frustrated. I did. Do it the MechWarriors way: (still works best with a bit of dierolling though) Maybe an initiative roll could be a roll for agility or perception, with the degree of succes dictating the order of play. In Mechwarriors the lowest initiative (i.e. worst) goes first. Then the next-lowest and so on. However, if someone with a higher initiative wants to do something before the presently declared action (for instance stop the person doing it :) they can choose to override and use their action first. Overrides _can_ be overriden but you still have to be faster than the one you want to override! If someone overrides you, you still have to continue what you chose to do, if possible. - -- Rene Kragh Pedersen - ------------------------------------------------------------------ If a man walks in a forest, talking to himself, with no women around ... ... ... is he still wrong? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 14:36:08 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> [FICTION] Harvesting Forces At 11:31 PM -0400 10/6/98, Pee Kitty wrote: >Thank you for a hint of darkness in the green. I'm using this IMC. (You know, what gets me is that I don't see any contradictions between the story and the writeup... Am I really just that convoluted?) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 14:41:14 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> [FICTION] Harvesting Forces Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > You know, what gets me is that I don't see any contradictions > between the story and the writeup... Am I really just that > convoluted?) I don't see any contradiction either. But there have been several threads on the list in which Lilith showed up as a much paler shade of grey. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 19:52:13 +0100 From: "CA Smith" Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #968 At 12:42 07/10/98 -0500, you wrote: > >Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 03:39:00 PDT >From: "Martin Arnold" >Subject: IN> stuff > >Jo, are you sure Shedim have no Band Dissoance (I cannot type that >word!)? What about the rule about having to corrupt their host further >each day; specifically failing to do so? The references have been for Shedim of Asmodeus, on their roll to possess a human the successful CD is the No of days the Shedim doesn't have to corrupt the host > >Just my luck...they show The Prophecy on TV (well Channel 5) over here, >last week, and i miss the first half. But what I saw; WOW! Gabriel, >played by CHristopher walken is one BADASS MF! But the scene at the end >when the soul is released and the Heavens open is stunning visually; you >get a glimpse of some Malakim (*g*) in the skies all in black against a >dark, cloudy sky with shafts of heavenly light pouring through! Sublime! Annyone notice the way the angels/lucifer smell the symphony rather than hear it > Chris Smith Gremlim of Vapula Why do Calabim of Belial think bigger is better? a little snip here, a little snip there... and all hell breeaks loose! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:16:37 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Possible Compendium of rules and Superiors At 9:28 PM -0400 10/6/98, Casca wrote: >I've had a similar idea. Of course, my idea entails getting an x-acto >knife, cutting the books apart, and putting them into binders organized >by subject: Superiors, New Rules (Sorcerors etc), and Settings > >I have yet to work up the courage required for such a maneuver. However, >given the way I use my books, it's entirely likely they'll start to fall >apart -anyway-, at which point I'll simply accelerate the process. you want to buy two new books for this, so you can cut them up without fear. You're right, Casca, you shouldn't be abusing books in that way. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 20:04:43 +0100 From: "CA Smith" Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #968 At 12:42 07/10/98 -0500, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 07 Oct 98 12:41 EDT >From: Walter Milliken >Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- A couple of questions > >> Hmm... this strikes me a cannonically false. I believe a Class 6 >>servant (as per main rulebook, pg.45) is "an experienced solider or undead >>with 7 forces". Hence for 3 character points you can have one as a level >>1 servant... surely if a 7 force mortal were THAT rare, it wouldn't be so >>easy to aquire one... > >The class doesn't really speak to rarity -- that's for the GM to decide. >A 5-Force human with 20 extra points could easily be a multimillionaire >(Status 6) by game mechanics, and only a level 5 servant, but that >doesn't mean I'd consider it reasonable or common.... > >7-Force humans may be a bit more common with Soldiers of God (demons >don't want the competition...), but I'd be pretty dubious about them >getting much higher than that -- that's already 2 added Forces, on >a race which rarely has the potential to have even 1 Force added. > As I've already mentioned in a previous entry generally for SoH 7 forces is tops that most demons are comfortavle with, 8 is just that little bit powerful > >- ---Walter > >------------------------------ Chris Smith Gremlim of Vapula Why do Calabim of Belial think bigger is better? a little snip here, a little snip there... and all hell breeaks loose! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 21:13:12 +0200 From: Rene Kragh Pedersen Subject: Re: IN> Hellacious stats (& Dodge Monsters!) Christopher Paul wrote: > > Regarding dodge gods and combat monsters: > > I don't tend to have these problems in my game for two reasons: > > 1) As a GM, I always instruct players to "hold the cheese." Anyone who > adds up cheese to get a dodge skill in the 20s is going to be asked, "Do > you want to NEED a dodge skill in the 20s?" Precisely. This goes for any game. In my StarWars group I am the only person who ever walks without weapons on his person. Why? The only way to passively provoke combat is to carry weapons! Good thinking, I wholeheartedly agree! > I won't approve cheaty skill > adding talismans for characters with high skill, anyone wearing body armor > gets arrested by the genre police, and I categorically rule out using > acrobatics with dodge because it is unbalancing. I disagree. Let's not try and reason with each other though. > 2) I use house rules for combat (see > http://www.rpghaven.com/innomine/rules.htm#combat for the exact rules) > which make attacks all or nothing (like resistances) and reduce differences > between the very skilled and the moderatle skilled by reducing check digit > bonuses for skill overages by half. These rules have worked quite well in > games where the cheese is not too rank. I don't think the rules you use > are going to matter if you play with munchkins. If you play with muchkins, > you will get munched. I have read the page and I must say, I don't like it. Unlike you, I have no problem with skilled people doing more damage as a result of high check digits (people with auto-success tend to boost their CD's substantially :) - After all, the skilled person knows where to hit, right? The way you right it, the result is (quote): "So, now you are either hit or you aren't [...]" What this _should_ have said was: So, now you are either missed or you are hit *BIGTIME* As you do it, only high check digits hit, and do lots of damage. There is now no longer a possibility of doing little damage :-( Next, you halve the bonus on check digits so that you only get half the bonus from making things tougher on yourself. What about the little guy then? What about the person who decides to take the long shot, lowering his normal level from 9 to something - I'd say it would be very unfair to him. All you did here was give the big guy a bigger advantage if you ask me. Under Numinous Corpus - Acid. If you go back to the old rules, there will be no problem with the five distributable points here. Just raise/lower you check digit as you want to. This is my opinion. If you want me to go into detail with any of it, don't hesitate to ask. Sincerely, - -- Rene Kragh Pedersen - ------------------------------------------------------------------ If a man walks in a forest, talking to himself, with no women around ... ... ... is he still wrong? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 20:52:54 +0100 (British Summer Time) From: James Palmer Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #968 > > I do remember Nemesis the Warlock. Torquemada was a brilliant character, and > I seem to remember he was almost always robed and hooded. Funny, that. > > > A couple of my fave sources are 1984, and 'V for Vendetta', both of which > show why the Media is probably at least as scary as the the Game if you play > it right ;) V is probably an outcast elohite of judgement or wind with some > wacky discords. There's a lovely scene in which he climbs up to the roof of > the Old Bailey (courts of justice in London) and has a 'chat' with the > statue of Justice, accusing her of being a whore -- riiiight. > > And I must read the Gulag Archipelago... > > > > jo > Has nobody mentioned "The Trial" yet? Or that wacky one (old Kafka, what a laugh) about the peasant going for judgement, and the infinite series of guards? And V is a Kyriotate of the Wind ... everywhere at once, we never see him beneath the mask, it doesn't matter who is he ... James. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 16:38:14 -0400 From: neel@cswv.com (Neel Krishnaswami) Subject: Re: IN> A cute and fuzzy bunny, perhaps? Earl Wajenberg > >BillionSix@aol.com wrote: > >> I have a question regarding Novalis. What does her celestial >> form look like? [...] But being a Cherub her natural form is an >> animal of some sort. Any ideas? > >A cow? *Sacred* cow, of course... > >Something totally carnivorous, on the grounds that it does NOT EAT >plants? I would actually make Novalis a lion in celestial form, on the grounds that in Heaven the lion ought to be lying down with the lamb, and all that. The downside is that the lion is more appropriate as a symbol for God Himself, rather than one of His angels. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 17:26:13 -0400 From: neel@cswv.com (Neel Krishnaswami) Subject: Re: IN> stuff "Hart, Joanna" wrote: > >I do remember Nemesis the Warlock. Torquemada was a brilliant character, and >I seem to remember he was almost always robed and hooded. Funny, that. > >A couple of my fave sources are 1984, and 'V for Vendetta', both of which >show why the Media is probably at least as scary as the the Game if you play >it right ;) Heh -- you've just spurred a vignette I've been toying with for a while. - -*-*-*- I was shaking with fatigue, but I did not permit it to distract me from the ritual -- even the slightest mistake would permit the demon to seize my soul and carry it off to Hell. "O Prince Nybbas, I am content with thee. I permit thee to retire from whence thou came, so it be without noise, and without leaving any evil smell behind thee. Be mindful of our engagement, for shouldst thou fail in it, be assured that I shall eternally smith thee with the Blasting Rod of the great ADONAY, ELOHIM, ARIEL, and JEHOVAM. Amen." The demon tapped its hoof and grinned at me. "Right. Everything that was given to Faust shall be given to you. No problem. No problem at all." The ritual was complete, but I realized that the demon had made a critical error, and I had to take. It had repeated the phrase "no problem" twice, and while it stood in the circle it could not repeat the same lie three times. "Nybbas, I command thee to repeat the words that thou hast spoken a moment afore." "Now I can leave whenever I will, and I will not answer the questions of a /human/ unless I choose -- and I do not." He was stalling! "I command thee, or I shall smite thee with the Blasting Rod of --" The demon interrupted me with, "The blasting rod of He who I cannot name. I know, I know; couldn't you guys have at least come up with more hip rituals? Anyway, I lied to you, okay, and I can't repeat it. There's plenty of problems with that deal, at least for you. We GOT Faust's soul; that's why I'm cool with that deal."" I waited. Sometimes the powers are so glad of their release that they will speak on their own. This time, I was right, for the demon Nybbas continued after a time: "So, there are other possibilities." This is what I had been waiting for. "Oh Prince of the nether regions, I give you leave to speak." "Thanks a bunch. Anyway, Faust got true knowledge of all that is known in Hell and Earth, and as a result he despaired and the Pit claimed him. So instead of that, I'll give you fame." It seemed like a poor bargain to me, but: "Say it three times, oh Prince." The demon smiled, and its eyed glowed with an eerie light. When it spoke, it's voice was more resonant and compelling than it had any right to be. "You desire power, because you desire freedom from restraint. But power brings with it responsibility, and jealous attention of dangerous rivals. If you have celebrity, then exceptions will be made for you, with no effort on your part. "You seek knowledge, because you desire the respect of your peers. But true understanding is difficult to attain, and it will transform you. If you are famous, then you will hear the cheers of the crowd, with no effort on your part. "You seek love, because you desire the trust of another. But love requires that you in turn trust, and death will one day rob you it. If you have glory, then there will be many who will come to you, with no effort on your part." "Hearing this, oh mortal man, do you deny that it is better to be known than to know?" I nodded, slowly. "We will draw up a new contract, oh mighty Prince." - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 17:02:39 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> More Lilim craziness At 10:31 PM -0400 10/6/98, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> >d) Can Geasa be paid off pre-emptively? >> >> Nope. However, you can refuse to accept her gift, which means the hook >> won't settle into your soul. (An immediate exchange of value might do it -- >> if a Lilim waitress senses a Need for someone to buy something, she >> probably doesn't get a hook for selling it, since she gets paid... Unless >> she sells it cheap... Up to the GM.) > > Beth, can you write up the definite Geas/Hook guide >and I'll just link it off of the FAQ? Matters like this >shouldn't be harder than pointing at the document and saying >'read'. =) I'm pulling strings to get some of the stuff from FotM put up as the "exerpt" for that book... > The way we've generally been playing it (although I >don't recall whether we put the canon label on it) is that >if a Lilim is doing something as per any normal agreement >(a doctor curing the sick, a janitor cleaning a room, a >guy parking a car for a tip) then it is not usable for a >Hook, no matter how much the Need. You know, if someone expects that they can pay you to do something, then it almost, by definition, *can't* be a Need. You can't resonate a Need to eat and then get anything if he takes a bite on his own. If he's paying someone to clean his house, and it could be *ANYONE* with that job, then how can the Lilim find a Need for a clean house? He's fulfilling his own, by proxy. So it's not that the Lilim can't fulfill a Need that's her job, it's that if she's hired for this, the person is fulfilling his *own* Need -- and it is therefor not there to find! (Firemen Lilim might be able to get hooks for rescuing certain items that the person really cares for, but probably not for just "stop the fire." And again, they would probably have to "go that extra step" -- do something that other firemen won't be doing.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 11:23:07 -0400 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> More Lilim craziness - Lunches Eslin wrote: > Minimum wage: circa $5/hour, before taxes. Chop off a third of > that: $3.33 ... now, admittedly, I feed two people for $20 a week, > generally, but most people really really don't want to do that. > > $3.35 won't get you dinner at Mickey D's :) Pulling money out of your pocket to pay for a dinner IS trivial... if you have the money. If you are typical wage-slave that is waiting for the next paycheck, then the above formula applies (i.e. you can't, right NOW, order dinner). It doesn't matter how much effort went into procuring the money, as long as you have it when the Lilim shows up. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)388-2665(COOL) MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:21:27 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> [FICTION] Harvesting Forces At 9:33 PM -0400 10/6/98, David Edelstein wrote: >Of course, I have Lilith's darkness-knob turned down quite a bit, so I >wouldn't have her being quite so selective and compassionate about which >children she kills... Up to the GM to decide if it's compassion or fear of retribution. (As for why not the older ones? Hey, if it's more Essence/time than it's worth, why bother unless you're really hard up?) (Also, up to the GM whether some scrap of Forces got away, or if they were just damaged, or if babies don't really have 3 Forces yet...) At 11:35 AM -0400 10/7/98, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: >Perry Lloyd wrote: >> Can ONLY the Impudites take essence out of someone? Couldn't a >> Celestial be able to just rip essence out of someone? > > Only impudites, in general, have that ability. >Superiors have it as well and, possibly, there are >little-known powers that Theft might grant. Maybe >a Song or Artifact as well. There's no universe-specific >reason why EVERY celestial should be able to do it, IMO. What Karakash said, in spades. At 2:41 PM -0500 10/7/98, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >> You know, what gets me is that I don't see any contradictions >> between the story and the writeup... Am I really just that >> convoluted?) > >I don't see any contradiction either. But there have been >several threads on the list in which Lilith showed up as >a much paler shade of grey. I'm not sure I see contradiction there, either, necessarily. She's very old, and has had time to change to any degree of brightness or darkness the GM cares for. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 18:20:03 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> A cute and fuzzy bunny, perhaps? At 2:59 AM -0400 10/7/98, BillionSix@aol.com wrote: >I have a question regarding Novalis. What does her celestial form look like? I >have trouble picturing her in anything other than her retro-hippie look (which >I like...It's so her!) But being a Cherub her natural form is an animal of >some sort. Any ideas? I've suggested a hummingbird or ladybug (they're predators!)... Or maybe a doe from one of those deer-families where the females have antlers too. Or maybe she's actually a pre-historic human-form with wings. One of those fertility-goddess-lookalike types. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:05:47 -0400 From: "Guy M. Dumas" Subject: Re: IN> Hellacious stats (& Dodge Monsters!) >Being it cinematic, just let the players hit where they want to. > Do you not find it remotely non-cinematic that standard non-celestial combat is virtually useless? Remember that you don't have to start with angels and demons...you can start with regular humans and in that case the combat system is...less than adequate, whereas, if you do start with angels and devils, is simply not up to snuff. Given my and particularly my players' considerable gaming experience including writers of game supplements etc., we have all concluded that the combat falls a little short...EVEN...for a cinematic game! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 22:22:47 -0300 From: Felipe Pereira Subject: Re: IN> re: A New Idea At 08:27 PM 10/7/98 +0200, you wrote: >Eeyore wrote: >[...] >> You'll want to be very careful with a system that involves declaring all >> of the >> characters' actions before anyone takes them. This is very similar to >> the system >> in the 1st Edition of DC Heroes, though that one was worse. It had >> characters >> declare their actions in reverse DEX order and then flip it around for >> taking the >> declared actions. The single most boring night I ever spent gaming was >> as the >> character with the lowest DEX in a DC Heroes game; every round, without >> exception, my declared action was pointless by the time my turn rolled >> around. >> It won't be _that_ bad with your idea, but the characters with the >> lowest >> perceptions are going to find this happening to them on a semi-regular >> basis and >> the players will get very frustrated. I did. I was thinking yesterday on what it is written above, I have in mind that the system that I proposed is working well. Since it is very difficult for somebody to get to change the action in 5 seconds, but even so, I put the rule that if somebody in its "action phase" wants to change his idea, he can execute another action, with a penalty of -1 for the difficulty and the check digit. The most important idea is that not always that that has 12 of perception acts first that what has 6, but its chances continue good. According to the old rule it would be easy to set up a character with a corporal song of shield and perception 12 and him it would win the whole initiative and become invulnerable for mundane attacks. Test the idea of rolling the perception instead of simply to do the countdown. I think you will like it. And I would like to hear what you do in your sessions, after all, I am open to new ideas!!! >Do it the MechWarriors way: >(still works best with a bit of dierolling though) >Maybe an initiative roll could be a roll for agility or perception, with >the degree of succes dictating the order of play. That is exactly what I wanted to propose initially!!! :-) >In Mechwarriors the lowest initiative (i.e. worst) goes first. >Then the next-lowest and so on. >However, if someone with a higher initiative wants to do something >before the presently declared action (for instance stop the person doing >it :) they can choose to override and use their action first. Overrides >_can_ be overriden but you still have to be faster than the one you want >to override! >If someone overrides you, you still have to continue what you chose to >do, if possible. Good, I like it, and I USE IT. Yes, I had the same Idea. > Rene Kragh Pedersen >------------------------------------------------------------------ >If a man walks in a forest, talking to himself, with no women >around ... ... ... is he still wrong? > A man never is WRONG. (kidding) :-) Felipe W. Pereira a.k.a. Azrael fwp@globalsite.com.br ICQ number: 2192991 ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #969 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.