From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Nov 27 06:51:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA26779 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 06:51:33 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id GAA31645 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 06:40:19 -0600 Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 06:40:19 -0600 Message-Id: <199811271240.GAA31645@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1024 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, November 27 1998 Volume 01 : Number 1024 In this digest: Re: IN> Pagan Soldiers IN> Pagan Soldiers Re: IN> Pagan Soldiers god impersonation (was Re: IN> Pagan Soldiers) Re: IN> Pagan Soldiers Re: IN> Adventure : Urban Myths R Us ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 06:42:21 +1100 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> Pagan Soldiers Hart, Joanna wrote: > Maybe pagan soldiers can get given a way to allow their bodies to be used > temporarily as vessels by the deity in question, which would explain why > some seem to use songs which would be normally unavailable. ('I felt infused > by the spirit of the God, and he breathed prophecies through my lips...') Leave it to the Ethereal in question. Song of Possession & Song of Spirit Speech both seem tailor-made for that sort of thing, and are the sort of Song I'd expect Ethereal gods to know. > What's to stop any little pimply familiar with impressive looking horns from > giving the recruitment spiel to some useful looking soldier-type and never > telling anyone? (I mean really, some people are so desperate to sell their > souls to Satan for the coolness-value that they'll take the first offer they > get!) I do think you need that qualitative leap in power that Superiors and big-arse Ethereals get. Normal Ethereal/Celestials (of PC-level or higher) don't have the ability to attach a 6th Force to a human and turn them into a Soldier. > I can also easily imagine a demon taking advantage of some mortal's > fascination with ethereal gods to impersonate as one for the purposes of > getting the mortal to worship it. Oh yeah. Actually, fun plot ideas there. But I don't think they'd be able to promote the worshippers to Soldier status without the co-operation of their Superior. - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia There is always room on TV for a man who can beat people to jelly in nine flat... HUNTER S. THOMPSON, "Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:49:57 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Pagan Soldiers >>>But does that connection get extended to non-Dream Pagan Soldiers (whoa, too many adjectives)? I mean, if there are Pagan Soldiers that work solely in the Corporeal plane (and I imagine there must be some), do they also have the Ethereal Connectiona and use Ethereal Songs? That's what I'm wondering about.<<< "Dream Soldier" and "Pagan Soldier" are two separate categories -- a Soldier can be either, both or neither. A Pagan Soldier is a Soldier who serves a powerful ethereal spirit, rather than a celestial Superior. A Dream Soldier, pagan or otherwise, is a Soldier with the Ethereal Connection attunement. Beleth and Blandine routinely create Dream Soldiers -- in fact, you can probably assume that all of their Soldiers are Dream Soldiers, though they are certainly capable of _not_ giving one of their Soldiers the Ethereal Connection attunement (in which case he'd be a Soldier of Dreams or Nightmares, but _not_ a Dream Soldier). Other Archangels and Demon Princes are also probably capable of granting the Ethereal Connection attunement (and thus creating their own Dream Soldiers), but very rarely do. Most of them probably never do. Ethereal Gods are also capable of granting the Ethereal Connection attunement and creating Dream Soldiers. They are also capable of inducting a Pagan Soldier _without_ giving him the Ethereal Connection attunement, in which case he'd be a non-Dream Pagan Soldier. Although the powerful ethereals would probably _like_ to make all of their Soldiers Dream Soldiers, it's likely that given the "expense," many of them probably do have Pagan Soldiers who lack that attunement because they simply can't afford to give it to all of their Soldiers. Does this make it more clear? >>>But somehow, Ethereal Gods (who are defined as being much _less_ powerful than Celestial Superiors) are able to completely ignore this. Their Soldiers get Ethereal Songs without the Attunement,<<< This is incorrect. Ethereal gods must give the Ethereal Connection attunement for their Soldiers to use Celestial Songs. >>>but not the Corporeal Songs that would appear to be their 'birthright'<<< Also incorrect -- *any* human with 6 Forces has the potential to learn Corporeal Songs; thus, Soldiers of any type are able to use Corporeal Songs. >>>(as it were) - _except_ for the Song of Dreams, where they can not only learn the Corporeal version, but the Celestial version as well!<<< Being able to learn the Celestial Song of Dreams is also a function of the Ethereal Connection attunement, because the Song taps into the ethereal plane in a unique way. >>>I find it inconsistent (which is not to say that it _is_, just that it seems such to _me_), and that bothers me.<<< I also found the rules for Dream Soldiers, as written in the Marches, inconsistent, which is why I "clarified" them by writing canon for the Ethereal Connection attunement. :) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 98 19:01 EST From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Pagan Soldiers [David neatly clarifies "Ethereal Connection" and various types of Soldiers:] >>>>But somehow, Ethereal Gods (who are defined as being much _less_ >powerful >than Celestial Superiors) are able to completely ignore this. Their >Soldiers get Ethereal Songs without the Attunement,<<< > >This is incorrect. Ethereal gods must give the Ethereal Connection >attunement for their Soldiers to use Celestial Songs. I think you meant "Ethereal Songs" for that last, didn't you? - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:30:36 -0800 (PST) From: -=|horsefly|=- Subject: god impersonation (was Re: IN> Pagan Soldiers) On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Hart, Joanna wrote: [snipped preceding and following save this selection] > I can also easily imagine a demon taking advantage of some mortal's > fascination with ethereal gods to impersonate as one for the purposes of > getting the mortal to worship it. i can easily see this happening as well. *once.* after the impersonator demon figures out that the essence from the decieved mortal is going not to it, but rather to the etherial god it's impersonating, it will stop Real Quick and in fact subvert itself to get that decieved mortal to cease and desist. this probably happened long ago, and that's why demons don't do it anymore, but who's to say the info didn't get passed around thoroughly. YMMV -=|horsefly|=- "Back off, preacher, I don't care if it's Sunday. I ain't no angel, but I never felt better!" --FREEDOM, Alice Cooper ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 17:52:55 +1100 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> Pagan Soldiers David Edelstein wrote: > "Dream Soldier" and "Pagan Soldier" are two separate categories -- a > Soldier can be either, both or neither. > > A Pagan Soldier is a Soldier who serves a powerful ethereal spirit, rather > than a celestial Superior. > > A Dream Soldier, pagan or otherwise, is a Soldier with the Ethereal > Connection attunement. I agree. It's just that The Marches (at least, as I read it) doesn't make that distinction - _all_ pagan Soldiers are Dream Soldiers. Canon has yet (pre-Songbook) to offer the possibility of non-Dream Pagan Soldiers. > >>>but not the Corporeal Songs that would appear to be their > 'birthright'<<< > > Also incorrect -- *any* human with 6 Forces has the potential to learn > Corporeal Songs; thus, Soldiers of any type are able to use Corporeal > Songs. It could be my mis-reading the paragraph in question (p.94 of The Marches) but my interpretation was that Pagan Soldiers _didn't_ get to use Corporeal Songs - only Ethereal ones and all 3 versions of Dreams. > >>>I find it inconsistent (which is not to say that it _is_, just that it > seems such to _me_), and that bothers me.<<< > > I also found the rules for Dream Soldiers, as written in the Marches, > inconsistent, which is why I "clarified" them by writing canon for the > Ethereal Connection attunement. :) I get the impression we're largely in agreement on Pagan Soldiers, David. I'm just trying to see how others interpret canon on this topic (has everyone realized I'm working on a Pagan Soldier character concept by now?). - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia There is always room on TV for a man who can beat people to jelly in nine flat... HUNTER S. THOMPSON, "Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 12:32:27 +0000 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN> Adventure : Urban Myths R Us Re: Urban Myths 'R' Us (and Lemmings) Nice work Maya and Jo! Useless Trivia: This particular Urban Myth was once so prevalent in the UK that it actually caused Scotland Yard to investigate. They closed the case as a hoax when no victim could be found or made to come forward... Jo Hart wrote: >And come to think of it, maybe the real reason that that Nazi salute involve >raising an arm really was just to boost the reception... Heh :) So what was the Silly Walk for? - -- Julian ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1024 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.