From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Feb 9 18:54:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA19310 for ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:54:53 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id SAA11475 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:50:50 -0600 Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:50:50 -0600 Message-Id: <199802100050.SAA11475@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #616 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, February 9 1998 Volume 01 : Number 616 In this digest: IN> Re: IN- Dissonance, Discord and Disturbance IN> [B5] Kosh, Cherubim, and Mercurians Re: Canon Doubt And Uncertainty (Re: IN> By Any Other Name)y Re: IN> Lair's Paradox Re: IN> Re: IN- Grigori, Fallen? Re: IN> Lilim and Reproduction Re: IN> Lilim and Reproduction IN> Innocence attunements IN> Re: Canon Doubt And Uncertainty (Re: IN- By Any Other Name)y Re: IN> Re: Canon Doubt And Uncertainty (Re: IN- By Any Other Name)y Re: IN> Innocence attunements Re: IN> Innocence attunements IN> Greek gods IN>PBEM Casting Call Re: IN>PBEM Casting Call Re: IN> Greek gods Re: IN> Greek gods Re: IN> Innocence attunements Re: IN> Lilim and Reproduction IN> Lust Fiction Re: IN> Innocence attunements IN> Logic (was Re: IN> Lair's Paradox) IN> More PBeM Madness Re: IN>PBEM Casting Call Re: IN> Greek gods ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 16:30:40 PST From: "David Streeter" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Dissonance, Discord and Disturbance >Even with a high CD on a disturbance Perception roll, you can barely >tell what's going on, and even the *major* difference between a demonic >and an angelic disturbance is inaudible to anyone except Malakim of >Destiny. I can't see just anyone being able to pick out someone else's >minor personal problems from their disturbances if they can't tell if >he's a demon of an angel.... That sounds reasonable. Oh well. I'll just go in the corner and sulk now... SurturZ Dissonant Elohite of Stone ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 01:55:05 -0500 From: Stacy Stroud Subject: IN> [B5] Kosh, Cherubim, and Mercurians 'Twas a time when I wrote: > >Despite his occasional Kyrio trick, > >I'd call Kosh a Cherub (which nicely illustrates the difference in social > >skills between high-divinity Cherubim and low-divinity Mercurians, in spite > >of their mutual focus on humans). To which Austin Loomis responded: > How so? Well, the APG brings back the "divinity" concept from earlier versions of the IN rules, but in a non-mechanical form. The "higher" its choir (starting with the Seraphim), the more an angel perceives the Big Picture in preference to the details, and the more trouble it has dealing with individual humans on anything approaching a normal level. (Remember how the main rulebook mentions that Seraphim often travel with "babysitters" because they so often Don't Get It?) Extensive Earth experience counters this potential problem. It's a concept I like; as someone said in an on-list review of the APG, it makes angelic behavior less humanlike, more alien, as befits beings who've never been anything like human. Now, Cherubim and Mercurians both tend to get close to humans, but the divinity concept implies that their approaches would be very different. (Indeed, the APG specifically comments that even when Cherubim bind themselves to individuals, they don't necessarily relate to those people in a "human" manner.) So I picked Cherub as Kosh's choir; he is closer to humans than most Vorlons, and especially to certain specific humans with important Destinies . . . but he is in no way a social creature. He rarely emerges from his quarters, and rarely speaks except in enigmatic aphorisms. But he'll go to the wall for "his" humans (and Minbari, and Chrysalized half-and-halfs). I'd still go with Malphas rather than Kronos as Morden's Superior. From the POV of the "lesser" races, there's all kinds of Destiny/Fate stuff goin' on, but the actual Vorlon and Shadow agendas are Order/Community (David) and Chaos/Conflict (Malphas). Like all celestials, their IN versions would work toward others' Destinies or Fates indirectly, but that's not their primary goal. (Morden may have picked up Kronos' Lilim attunement in addition to Malphas', and Kosh probably had a Destiny attunement or two, but the overall thrust of the two races is different.) Stacy Stroud sstroud@uky.campus.mci.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:22:00 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: Canon Doubt And Uncertainty (Re: IN> By Any Other Name)y > > > (Now that I've given myself nightmares with this extension of a Word's > > power, I'm going to carefully refrain from thinking about the sort of > > things Baal and Michael can come up with when they're bored.) > > I thought they just tried to hack each other into kibble in their spare > time. > > Starting with Baal. Ever noticed that Baal's Word is "the War" as opposed to War? Per the errata for the Marches, it refers to the War between Heaven & Hell. This means that, just like Kronos and Lucifer, he has a mega-Word, one that gains from almost every demonic activity. So Baal is big and powerful, much more so than someone like Saminga, whose Word superficially looks massively powerful. Now think carefully about the implications of this. Corrupting angels is obviously a major gain for the War, so Baal has a natural resonance for corrupting angels. So, faced with a PC-level non-Malakite angel, Baal could probably click his fingers and make them Fall. Espionage is also an important part of the Word, so he can probably look at most people and know everything there is to know about their goals and aims. Of course, there are philosophical reasons why he doesn't exercise these powers himself, which I'll have to have a think about. But one theory presents itself, this being that he doesn't want to win the War, because then his Word is just about over. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:24:12 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Lair's Paradox > > I'd let it pass, on the grounds that they perfectly well know the statement > has no meaning. Then I'd send them all off to do advanced classes in > predicate logic. > > I had the same idea over the week. Laugh at the expression on the Malakite of Dominic's face when a Seraph tells him that Habbalah are angels and that therefore Yves is Kronos. (Every Seraph of the Wind needs to learn this stuff.) Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:33:10 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- Grigori, Fallen? > >What happens to a corporeally slain angel who does not have a heart? I'd > >guess that is what happens to them. > > Limbo. (The whole issue is discussed in moderate detail in Heaven & > Hell, though not for Ethereals.) > Ethereals go to the Marches when they're slain. Also, every time they fail a Will roll to recover from Trauma, they lose a Force. So they're not the nigh-invincible beings they were portrayed as in the main rulebook, because otherwise Uriel could not have completed the Purification Crusade. Ethereals get Vessels the same way Celestials in Limbo do, except that they can still move around in the Marches, which is a hell of a lot more interesting than Limbo, and they regenerate Essence normally, so they're rather more likely to get powerful Vessels without getting loads of Discord. All this is in the Marches somewhere. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 12:19:13 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Lilim and Reproduction > > Throw my 2c in with you on that, whether as LE or GM or just list > commentator :) . It makes one less thing that divides Angels from Humans. > Angel creation by Archangels is one thing, but any two angels just getting > it together and producing offspring, especially if the results are in any > way predictible just doesn't sit well with me. Of course this is without > benefit of having a copy of the APG to read yet, so maybe it will feel less > odd when I have seen the whole argument, rather than just the idea. > Don't worry. Can't be done by those who aren't of Superior-level power. PC-types have to get a Superior to add some binding Forces to make the whole thing work. And all the Forces the angels/demons donate for their offsptring are gone, so it's a bad idea for PCs anyway. I believe the Grigori are an exception, but the only place I can see them doing this trick is the Far Marches. Reactions from the various Superiors range from Dominic, who doesn't like the idea, and expects a damn good reason, to Eli, who will always do it, no matter how bad an idea he thinks it is, and no matter who the couple is. Leaving you with the trivial problem of findng him and hiding the fact from your Superior. (A forlorn hope in the case of Malakim and Dominic.) It should be noted that angels created in this fashion are usually more "human" than other angels. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 12:31:14 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Lilim and Reproduction > That could be... very funny ;-) ('Congratulations, its a shedite!') > > Actually I thought of something twinkier. Could a demon prince capture a > Malakite and use it as breeding stock? That'd be the easiest way to force > one to fall. > > Someone commented that it would be hard to make the Malakite consent to this process, and that without consent it's just Force-stripping. Isn't it amazing what high-level Habbalah can be used for? The problem is that it looks like the infamous "Never suffer an evil to live when it is your choice" oath is intrinsic to Malakim, so the newborn Malakite would be oathbound to destroy you all, at least until it was attuned to your Word, whereupon you could, as its Superior, order it never to destroy demons without orders (an imperfect solution, but with flexible orders, the problems with it can be dealt with). Then make it swear to obey your orders (again, that's what high-powered Habbalah are there for). Eh voila! It's never the Malakite's choice as to when it should destroy evil, so the oath has become inoperative. (If you insist that this is abusive, make it swear another oath, as if there had been a temporary oath.) Of course, it's still an angel, but as every Habbalite can tell you, that shouldn't have any effect on the faithfulness of its service. (Until it rolls a divine intervention for the dissonance check after disobeying one of its Superior's orders.) Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 09:03:37 -0500 From: neel@cswv.com (Neel Krishnaswami) Subject: IN> Innocence attunements Here's something you could use for innocence attunements or distinctions. Vision of the Risen Self All humans are fallen, their innocence shattered by the disobedience of Adam and Eve. For the very reasonable cost of 7 Essence, an angel can show a human the glory God intended for him. This vision lasts only an instant, and can be shown to a human only once in his lifetime, but its effects are lasting and profound. The human is immediately freed from any Infernal resonance or attunement he is suffering from, and gains a permanent +3 bonus to resist demonic powers. (Note: If you're worried about the balance of permanent powers, I will refrain from pointing out that IN isn't balanced at all, and instead suggest that the permanent effect of the vision be removed along with the only usable once limit. But really, humans are so weak that there is very little that can unbalance them.) - ---- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 06:13:38 PST From: "Andrew Frades" Subject: IN> Re: Canon Doubt And Uncertainty (Re: IN- By Any Other Name)y >Now think carefully about the implications of this. Corrupting angels is >obviously a major gain for the War, so Baal has a natural resonance for >corrupting angels. So, faced with a PC-level non-Malakite angel, Baal >could probably click his fingers and make them Fall. Espionage is also an >important part of the Word, so he can probably look at most people and >know everything there is to know about their goals and aims. > >Of course, there are philosophical reasons why he doesn't exercise these >powers himself, which I'll have to have a think about. But one theory >presents itself, this being that he doesn't want to win the War, because >then his Word is just about over. 1. Corrupting Angels is making them meet their Fate. 2. Free will does not allow ANYONE to snap their fingers and make someone evil. 3. Baal's word certainly will be weaker if he wins the war outright, but there will likely be guerilla action if this happens, and do you think that Lucifer will not appreciate Baal' actions and reward him? 4. Espionage is an important part of his word, but it is not his word. The word you are looking for is Secrets and/or Revelation. Look to the GM pack for some ideas on these. Just a few quick thoughts. Remember, the war between Heaven and Hell is just that, no one has a quick fix for it, not even the Archangels and Demon Princes. Andrew ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 14:53:38 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Re: Canon Doubt And Uncertainty (Re: IN- By Any Other Name)y > > 1. Corrupting Angels is making them meet their Fate. > 2. Free will does not allow ANYONE to snap their fingers and make > someone evil. The question of whether free will exists in the IN universe is an unresolved one. And I would also point out that Shedim can do that sort of thing, and indeed must. > 3. Baal's word certainly will be weaker if he wins the war outright, > but there will likely be guerilla action if this happens, and do you > think that Lucifer will not appreciate Baal' actions and reward him? And the reward that will be greater than the massive decline in the importance of his Word is? > 4. Espionage is an important part of his word, but it is not his word. > The word you are looking for is Secrets and/or Revelation. Look to the > GM pack for some ideas on these. > Words can overlap, and we know that Baal can know some things about people just by looking at them. I didn't mean to say he can find out everything (or shouldn't if I did), but things that have relevance to the War? Most certainly, IMO. > Just a few quick thoughts. Remember, the war between Heaven and Hell is > just that, no one has a quick fix for it, not even the Archangels and > Demon Princes. > I prefer a situation where they all have quick fixes, but are afraid to use them because then someone else will try one of _their_ quick fixes. The same sort of reasons that stop them from making major attacks on each other's Tethers all the time. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:14:44 -0000 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: Re: IN> Innocence attunements - ---Neel Krishnaswami wrote: > All humans are fallen, their innocence shattered by the disobedience of Adam > and Eve. Since when?! ;-) ;-) jo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:19:05 -0800 (PST) From: Querent Subject: Re: IN> Innocence attunements That's a very "original sin" sort of Catholic view. Oddly enough, In Nomine doesn't corroborate it. In IN, humans already had trouble enough with free will *before* the Eden Experiment was ever developed. If it's established that people existed prior to, during, and after Adam and Eve ever entered the picture, how can you justify original sin in an In Nomine setting? In fact, there's nothing to support the idea that mankind is descended from Adam and Eve. Interestingly, humans are not inherently destined for hell. They're headed for reincarnation *unless* they fulfill a significant portion of their destiny or fate. It's implied that humans are neither rightous nor fallen, but rather just free. It's their own free will that determines where they go from there. - ---Neel Krishnaswami wrote: > All humans are fallen, their innocence shattered by the disobedience of Adam > and Eve. == --Querent, Angel of Widescreen. Mercurian Servitor of Creation. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:47:27 -0500 From: "David C. Shadle" Subject: IN> Greek gods Does any one have any stats for the Nrose gods? I have a story planned that envolves them. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:48:59 -0800 (PST) From: Querent Subject: IN>PBEM Casting Call Auditions are now open for parts in an upcoming Querent film. To make an appointment with the casting directior, simply respond to this notice and await further contact. Space is limited, first come, first serve. == --Querent, Angel of Widescreen. Mercurian Servitor of Creation. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 12:38:05 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN>PBEM Casting Call Well, I'm making an appointment. :::) Hope to hear from you soon. Rich Gant ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:31:34 -0500 From: "Thomas Davidson" Subject: Re: IN> Greek gods - ---------- > From: David C. Shadle > To: In nomine Mailing list > Subject: IN> Greek gods > Date: Monday, February 09, 1998 8:47 AM > > Does any one have any stats for the Nrose gods? I have a story planned > that envolves them. Well, Heaven and Hell has stats for Thor and Loki. (a very *weak* Thor, I might add) I am currently working on a write-up for Odin. . . IMO he is one of the few Pagan Spirits with powers equal to a low-level AA/DP, so his write-up will look like the write-ups for AA/DPs, with Resonances, Servitor Attunements, Distinctions and Rites. If I finish them, I'll post them to the List. Thomas Davidson tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us http://wwp.mirabilis.com/7789233 MUSIC: Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, Rush, Jimi Hendrix GAMES: Champions (old and new), In Nomine, Nephilim TV: The X-Files, The Simpsons, Superman, The Tick, The Animaniacs OTHER: Religion, Philosophy, mysticism, the runes, the Tarot, writing ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:53:51 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Greek gods > > Well, Heaven and Hell has stats for Thor and Loki. (a very *weak* Thor, I > might add) You're kidding. In p96 the Marches, it says clearly "Thor was the only important Aes lost in the Crusade." If this isn't an accidental contradiction, you've been spoilering us. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:19:45 -0500 (EST) From: "York H. Dobyns" Subject: Re: IN> Innocence attunements neel@cswv.com (Neel Krishnaswami) writes: >Here's something you could use for innocence attunements or distinctions. > >Vision of the Risen Self > >All humans are fallen, their innocence shattered by the disobedience of Adam >and Eve. As others have noted, this is very much the Catholic/Christian notion of Original Sin, and *not* supported by the version of Adam and Eve presented in APG. One of the things I found most interesting about that notion is how it shifts the whole focus from humans to celestials; the human religions that contain the myth insist that humans (and their disobedience) are the center of the whole issue, whereas the story the celestials tell makes the *celestials'* inability to obey the "hands-off" edict the crucial point. Appropriate, for a portrayal of the celestial worldview. >For the very reasonable cost of 7 Essence, an angel can show a >human the glory God intended for him. This vision lasts only an instant, >and can be shown to a human only once in his lifetime, but its effects are >lasting and profound. > >The human is immediately freed from any Infernal resonance or attunement he >is suffering from, and gains a permanent +3 bonus to resist demonic powers. It sounds like a great way to incapacitate Hellsworn: one zap, and any Attunements they've labored for disappear. Or did you intend to mean that it removes the *effects* of *other people's* attunements *on* the victim? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 18:51:18 +0000 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Lilim and Reproduction At 12:31 09/02/98 +0000, you wrote: >Isn't >it amazing what high-level Habbalah can be used for? This is true. They can also be made into remarkably decorative wall-hangings. jo (channeling.. um no, never mind :) ) - ---------- "I like getting into hot water, it keeps me clean." G. K. Chesterton jhart@btinternet.com -- http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~jhart/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:06:23 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: IN> Lust Fiction I was in a weird mood this morning, and I had this idea, and here it is. If anyone wants to post this on a web-page somewhere, feel free, as long as you mention my name. LUST FICTION Three men and a woman are sitting at a table. The woman has blonde hair in ringlets and wears a rather low-cut blouse. Across from her is a dark-haired man in an expensive suit and an expensive haircut. Both of them are smoking, and the smoke is being blown towards a fair-haired man in a somewhat less expensive but exceptionally neat suit. It looks fine, but there's something about the cuffs that's bothering him. It seems that the buttons aren't aligned correctly and he has to keep readjusting them. Across from him, beside the fan, is a much less elegant man. His pitch- black hair clearly hasn't been combed in a long time, and his clothes, while new and fashionable, look rather dishevelled. He's occupied making obscene origami sculptures with the paper left from the butts of the cigarettes left by the people beside him, and then ripping them apart before they're finished. The fan is blowing his hair all over the place, but he doesn't seem to mind. Expensive Man: So, in your opinion, which angels are the best fucks? Neither of the other men pay any attention. The Woman leans forward. Woman: We are, of course. The Messy Man looks up at this. Messy Man: I think he was referring to angels who actually happened to _be_ angels. Woman: We are angels, and you'd better not forget it or you're in severe trouble. Expensive Man: Come on. There's no need for this. No one is questioning your divinity. He's just winding you up, that's all. Neat Man: If she wants to call herself an angel, then she's an angel. What do you care? The Woman glares at the the Neat Man, then leans back in her chair. After a drag, she looks calm again. Expensive Man: However, I was referring to angels who worked directly for Heaven, not, as it were, through subcontractors. The Woman and the Neat Man don't volunteer anything. The Neat Man starts # fixing his tie. The Expensive Man looks at the Messy Man, who stares up at the ceiling before answering. Messy Man: Well, being something of a traditionalist, I prefer Kyriotates. Anything that can make itself pregnant is just far too damn cool. Woman: When are you going to give up on your obsession with pregnancy? It's disgusting, that's what it is. Those fucking little parasites stealing your life energy, making you sick and fat and ugly. Don't ever mention that subject in my presence again. Messy Man: Why are you so upset? It's not as if it's gonna happen to you, is it? Or has it? Expensive Man: Do you know what I think you are? Messy Man: What? Expensive Man: You're a fucking Servitor of Malphas. Messy Man: Bullshit. You've seen me with our Prince. Expensive Man: That doesn't mean anything. You could be on loan, for all I know. Woman: I doubt Servitors of Malphas are that fucking inept. Expensive Man: His ineptness is a cover for the fact that he's a Servitor of Malphas. If fights broke out constantly around him but he never took part himself, it would be too obvious. So he starts them blatantly as a cover. Neat Man: By that logic, I am obviously a Servitor of Malphas, so there's no way I could possibly be one. Expensive Man: Exactly. Is anyone here accusing you of being a Servitor of Malphas? Woman: We're wandering away from the point. Ofanim are the best. Messy Man: Ofanim? You're fucking sick. The Messy Man looks down at what he's just crafted, cringes and flings it from him. Woman: They've got great stamina, they always keep going, and they can do _amazing_ positions. And you need a strong Vessel to stay intact when they get excited. Messy Man: They can't fucking stay in one place! You talk about fucking positions, but they won't stay in them for more than two seconds at a time. They won't even stay in the one room. You have to fucking beat them unconscious before they stop. He has to force himself to stop talking, and for several minutes afterwards he's shaking with rage and ripping up the butts in front of him frenziedly. Everyone is staring at him, but he doesn't stop, or even seem to notice. Expensive Man: Back to the subject... Woman: What's the bets he's going to say Malakim? The Expensive Man ignores her. In fact he doesn't seem to have heard what she said. Expensive Man: You're both wrong. The best fucks, of all the angels, are Elohim. The entire table, even the Neat Man, look up and stare at him. The Woman is not what you would call pleased. Woman: Those weak-willed shits?? They're nothing more than rite fodder. They never know anything about how to do it, and their enthusiasm is just embarrassing. You might as well have sex with your dog. Messy Man: Easy, she says. Not all of us are Habbalah, you know. Some of us have to rely on our fucking talent to get someone interested, instead of using bloody magic. And for anyone else, it's next to impossible. There's a reason they never have any experience, you know. Expensive Man: If you can't seduce someone without using powers you shouldn't be in this outfit. And anyway, you're all missing the point. The great thing about Elohim is that they're so _compliant_. He pauses for a moment. Neat Man: Since you're going to say it anyway whether we want to listen or not, could you please get on with it? Expensive Man: The trick is, right, to find some project that the angel has to work with a demon for. Messy Man: Easily achieved, especially without the Game noticing. Expensive Man: And then you make it clear that the price of your cooperation is that he or she has to become your lover. Let them resonate you if you want in order to confirm it. And then it's fucking dissonant for the Elohite not to have sex with you. The Expensive Man sits back and laughs. Messy Man: Unless of course it's my esteemed colleague sitting there beside you. It's no good having cooperation with two broken arms and two broken legs. Neat Man: It was perfectly consensual. She even testified to that in court. And I can truthfully say that my services were never in so much demand as they have been since. Messy Man: That would have been impressive, if so many of them hadn't been Shedim in disguise. The Woman reaches over and pulls his hair hard. Woman: Don't mind him. He's just jealous because no one wants _him_ to break their legs. Expensive Man: The important thing is that it's _also_ dissonant for the Elohite not to agree to whatever acts you wish. And they're not judgemental. One position is as good as another to them. Even if they find out you don't really want to do something except in order to humiliate them, the worst you're going to get is a polite refusal. Woman: So if you go to the trouble, they're compliant. So what? They still have no technique. Expensive Man: You fucking teach them. And teach them to enjoy it, so that they're begging you for more of it. And like I said, if you need powers to achieve that, you shouldn't be working for us. And they're motivated. If they want to keep you happy, they'd better learn those techniques quickly. Messy Man: Easily said when you have those powers. And how often has this worked for you, anyway? Expensive Man: Two or three times. Messy Man: Two or three? You don't remember? Expensive Man: I think one of them might have had two Vessels. Messy Man: And you couldn't tell whether it was the same person or not? Not even after all those techniques you taught her? Or was it a her? Expensive Man: They were both hers, and it was dodgy. The second time, she didn't seem to know stuff, but I reckoned she might have been hiding it. The Woman looks thoughtful. The Messy Man seems to be looking for more objections, but can't find any. The Neat Man looks down at his watch, then sighs and starts changing the time on it. Still looking down, he asks... Neat Man: If you've had so many Elohim, how come you're not a Knight? Expensive Man: Just because I'm not a Knight now doesn't mean I was never one. The Woman taps the Neat Man on his shoulder. Woman: What time is it? Neat Man: 19:05. Woman: We're late. Why didn't you tell us the fucking time? The Neat Man shrugs and keeps fiddling with watch. Exeunt Omnes, with the Neat Man last. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 13:07:32 -0600 From: tom timberlake Subject: Re: IN> Innocence attunements Neel Krishnaswami wrote: > > Here's something you could use for innocence attunements or distinctions. > > Vision of the Risen Self > > All humans are fallen, their innocence shattered by the disobedience of Adam > and Eve. For the very reasonable cost of 7 Essence, an angel can show a > human the glory God intended for him. This vision lasts only an instant, > and can be shown to a human only once in his lifetime, but its effects are > lasting and profound. > > The human is immediately freed from any Infernal resonance or attunement he > is suffering from, and gains a permanent +3 bonus to resist demonic powers. > > (Note: If you're worried about the balance of permanent powers, I will > refrain from pointing out that IN isn't balanced at all, and instead > suggest that the permanent effect of the vision be removed along with the > only usable once limit. But really, humans are so weak that there is > very little that can unbalance them.) > Unlike some others who have posted in response to this, I personally have no problem with the "Original Sin"-ish POV for this. I would make this the Master Level distinction for Innocence. A lesser version of this, without the Evil removing powers, usable multiple times in a human lifetime, would be my Friend level distinction, probably under the name Vision of Hope, providing a Vision of Hope that inspires them to keep their faith, to fight on, even against impossible odds. VOH is also known, tongue-in-cheek wise, as the Joan of Arc distinction. VOTRS is the Faustian Redemption distinction. Comments? tom timberlake, Role of James the Stone Malakim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:27:39 -0500 (EST) From: "York H. Dobyns" Subject: IN> Logic (was Re: IN> Lair's Paradox) Kevin Walsh writes: >I had the same idea over the week. Laugh at the expression on the >Malakite of Dominic's face when a Seraph tells him that Habbalah are >angels and that therefore Yves is Kronos. (Every Seraph of the Wind needs >to learn this stuff.) The phrasing in colloquial English is ambiguous enough that *I* would be tempted to slap the Seraph with 2 points of dissonance. The "safe" version is: "If Habbalah are angels, then Yves is Kronos" which unfortunately loses a lot of the shock value, since the same rhetorical if-construct has found its way into endless cliches. (If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 12:35:10 -0700 From: Chris Piekarski Subject: IN> More PBeM Madness I will also be starting a PBeM game soon based on White Wolf's World of Darkness, but incorporating In Nomine characters to play with a system that I developed. So basically, you can play as a vampire, werewolf, mage, or angel/demon. Mail me if you want some more info. Oh BTW, you don't need to know Word of Darkness rules to play; but if you do, I'd rather you play as a WoD character because I'm sure most people who respond on this mailing list will be wanting to play an angel/demon. It should be chaotic... - -- --¥-Chris-¥-- Webmaster of -Anime News and Reviews- "In the middle of difficulity lies opportunity."--Albert Einstein GodGundam@humanoid.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 17:50:57 -0600 From: MadLocks Subject: Re: IN>PBEM Casting Call sitting on the casting couch showing a little leg I thinik I would be perfect for the part - ---------- > From: Querent > To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > Subject: IN>PBEM Casting Call > Date: Monday, February 09, 1998 10:48 AM > > Auditions are now open for parts in an upcoming Querent film. > To make an appointment with the casting directior, simply respond to > this notice and await further contact. > > Space is limited, first come, first serve. > > > > > == > > > > --Querent, Angel of Widescreen. > Mercurian Servitor of Creation. > > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:15:33 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Greek gods At 8:47 AM -0500 2/9/98, David C. Shadle wrote: >Does any one have any stats for the Nrose gods? I have a story planned >that envolves them. There are no current canon stats except in _The Marches_ -- Valkyries & Einheriar -- and Heaven & Hell (the No Dinero adventure, which has Loki & Thor. They have Vessel/6's.). - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #616 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.