From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon May 11 22:44:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA01477 for ; Mon, 11 May 1998 22:44:02 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id WAA29060 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 11 May 1998 22:51:09 -0500 Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 22:51:09 -0500 Message-Id: <199805120351.WAA29060@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #773 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, May 11 1998 Volume 01 : Number 773 In this digest: Re: IN> Children of the Grigori Re: IN> Stat limits Re: IN> How can you bind a celestial? IN> Where Does Essence Come From? (Re: Stat limits) IN> Comics (Re: Writing Canon) Fans of the Writings of Archangel Beth (was Re: IN> Writing Canon) Re: IN> What is the War about? Re: IN> Writing Canon Re: IN> Children of the Grigori Re: IN> Writing Canon IN> Children of the Grigori and Angels of Purity Re: IN> Re:Children of the Grigori and Angels of Purity Re: IN> Writing Canon IN> Re: Writing Canon Re: IN> Re: Writing Canon Re: IN> What is the War about? Re: IN> Stat limits Re: IN> Stat limits Re: IN> Ceilings and Superiors Re: IN> Re: IN- What's the best source of info... IN> Plot Seed: Limbo Unleashed IN> Statistics for Superiors (Take 2) - Rather long Re: IN> Ceilings and Superiors Re: IN>Demon Prince Auditions IN> Statistics for Superiors (Take 2, Part 2) IN> Horrible Conspiracy? Re: Fans of the Writings of Archangel Beth (was Re: IN> Writing Canon) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 15:56:13 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Children of the Grigori At 2:33 PM -0500 5/8/98, Scott Weber wrote: >---------- >> From: Walter Milliken >> I would treat them as low-Force angels (maybe 7 Forces), possibly with >> some Songs that aren't necessarily under conscious control and a free >> vessel, Status, and Role (per normal humans). >> >> They should also have some sort of resonance; they can apparently detect >> celestials just from being around them (there's small throwaway line in >> the description in the core book), so maybe that's it. Since they are >> called "the Watchers", it should probably be something related to >> watching over humans. Also, the APG or IPG places the creation of the >> Grigori *after* the Fall, so they were partly there to counter demonic >> influence. > >I don't mean to nitpick, but I like to make sure... they are indeed >celestials? The Children of the Grigori come in two flavors: celestial and human (p. APG9). The human ones are actually more common -- treat them as more likely to be potential Soldiers (like human children created with the Song of Fruition). The Children of the Grigori referenced in the main book, however (and the ones who get the Capital Letters) are the celestial children. They are indeed celestials. Which implies that when their bodies are destroyed, they go to Limbo. And might or might not be able to get out again later... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 16:59:27 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Stat limits At 12:56 PM -0400 5/11/98, York H. Dobyns wrote: >Walter Milliken writes: > >>It's pretty much SJGames policy for In Nomine that Superiors Shall Not >>Be Quantified. > >If this be the case, why does Liber Reliquarum bother with discussions of >die roll outcomes for Vapula's Raygun, when fired by Vapula? If a Superior >is on the scene and actively taking part, isn't combat a matter of >"Poof, you're dead"? I think it's to give PCs a fighting chance against that nasty little toy, as well as explain what's likely to happen if they steal it... Note that anybody without a PC card (or other "the GM doesn't want him to die yet" benefit) *does* get toastified instantly. That, and, well, it's *Vapula*, Mad Scientist On A Mission From God. It makes sense that there are... drawbacks to his toys. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 16:42:57 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> How can you bind a celestial? At 5:33 PM -0400 5/10/98, Nana Yaw Ofori wrote: >Barring that, there are very few ways on Earth, short of Artifacts and >certain attunements, to stop a Celestial Form, and far, far fewer ways to >get someone to the Celestial plane who doesn't want to go. Which, I >imagine, makes things very tough on Gamers and Judgies. That is the blessed truth... However, there *are* ways. Song of Celestial Charm. Knock down the Will. Order and harass the person into going celestial... Or invent a relic. You'll notice that in "Hunt" (by me and Maya, on the INC fiction page -- one story from each perspective), the two Gamesters have little gold-wire nooses which drag a couple of unconscious Renegades along with the holders. If those made it into canon, there would probably be a Will roll from the victim (or a Contest of Wills?) minus the level of the noose. Unconscious victims wouldn't be able to resist, probably. On a failure, the captive is dragged along when the holder goes celestial, and again when the holder goes to his or her Heart. Presto. Useful Artifact. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 16:24:12 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Where Does Essence Come From? (Re: Stat limits) At 6:48 PM -0400 5/8/98, York H. Dobyns wrote: >Walter Milliken writes: >[...] >_The Marches_, somewhere in the Sorcery section: the Demon of Sorcery. >A Servitor of Kronos, her Word of Sorcery gives her the Sorcery >attunement, which she can grant to anyone she wishes. It's throughout the system, so yes, Wordbound can give attunements to others. But only *Servitor* attunements. They don't have whole messes of Choir/Band attunements to bestow. And they may only get *one* bestowable attunement. This will be examined, later, in such a way as to prevent someone from carefully "stacking" their immediate Superiors such that they can get the World Killing Rube Goldberg Attunement Train for free. For that matter, you don't get your immediate superior's attunement for free anyway. In general, you get your Choir/Band Attunement, the Rites, and the dissonance. Everything else, you pay for. TANSTAAFL. >I summarize alternative Rite interpretations: Unwritten Canon: Rite allows >you to tap Superior's Essence reserve; Non-Canon: Rite generates Essence >for Rite practitioner *and* granting Superior. Walter's "This" below to >the Non-Canon version. > >>This is in fact the opinion I held initially. However, this doen't >>explain why the Superior doesn't give the Rite to everyone he can, which >>is one reason for the canon change -- it was deemed undesirable that the >>PCs pick up Rites like potato chips. >[...] >>The Rite still *does* promote the Superior's Word, but doesn't >>necessarily provide them directly with Essence. This also makes >>Word-bound likely to be careful who they give Rites to, since it allows >>the Rite-holder to tap the Word-bound's Essence, and they don't have the >>huge amounts to play with that a Superior does. > >OK, I see why the non-Canon version is unacceptable as presented -- but >I would like respectfully to suggest that the unwritten Canon version is >not quite a sufficient fix. The small problem is that practicing a Rite >actually *weakens* a Superior, by grabbing some of his Essence This is not a bug... Yes, granting Rites weakens Superiors in the short term. It is *my* concept that performing a Rite generates "vague Essence" that sort of drifts to the Word like mist, and forms droplets that funnel into the Superior's Essence reserve. The Superior is strengthened in the long term -- so long as he doesn't let the Rite drain more Essence than it eventually generates. (Yes, a Superior *could* award a Rite that generated 7 Essence when used. Such a Rite would probably be a drain on the Superior.) One's personal Servitors are usually also furthering your Word and generating "vague Essence" for it (or otherwise being useful), so letting them have your Rites is no problem. Letting other people's Servitors have your Rites *might* be a problem, especially if they *only* do your Rite to get Essence -- they aren't doing anything else to generate vague Essence for you, so they're not cost-effective. Mind you, if this *is* how it works, the PCs probably *don't know*. They're just Servitors. Only Superiors know this stuff. >When a Word-bound performs one of its *own* Rites, where is the Essence >coming from? Its Superior. p. IPG101, Word-Bound Renegades, last paragraph of the first column. The Superior, if he can *catch* the Word-Bound's servitor, can take the Rite away, I would suspect. >A similar question applies to Rites like the ones Loki and Thor are >given in H&H, which to top it off are usable multiple times per day. >They don't *have* Superiors -- where is the Essence source? Them, it's less clear. They may have some way of tapping the "vague Essence" of humans thinking about them -- they are, after all, ethereal creatures, created from human dreamscapes and belief and worship. Or maybe they have a faster way of turning "vague Essence" into actual Essence. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 16:50:53 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Comics (Re: Writing Canon) At 1:13 PM +0200 5/11/98, Anders Gabrielsson wrote: >On Mon, 11 May 1998, Simon Hailes wrote: >> At 02:07 AM 11/05/98 -0500, you wrote: >> >As for comics... ugh. Comics aren't the same as they used to be when I was >> >a kid... [...] > >> Arent we being just a little jaded? I think comics are just as good as >> ever, [...] > >I agree. There are lots of really good comics [...] And this is pertaining to In Nomine *how*, by this point in the thread? (Me, I want In Nomine XXXenophile... Seraphim in Celtic Knots!) - --Beth, Demon Princess of Nitpicking http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/INChar/Demons/Prince.Beth.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 15:09:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Fans of the Writings of Archangel Beth (was Re: IN> Writing Canon) - ---Shadowcat wrote: > I for one would like to see them, if not here, then on private > e-mail > > Shadowcat Same here, Shadowcat! Graveyard Greg _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 18:14:38 -0400 From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: IN> What is the War about? At 12:08 PM 5/11/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Official In Nomine canon is that the outcome of theWar is still up in the >air. God is basically using it to see whether good or evil is stronger. >Of course, that's the official version. Some of us (me included) don't >like that, and so we've changed it. In my campaign, ultimate victory will >go to Heaven; the demons are trying to drag as many mortal souls down to >Hell as possible, in order to make the War as pyrrhic as possible for >Heaven. > Well....In Nomine Canon (at least the Infernal Player's Guide) seems to suggest that no one is sure what God's plan is. (There is even one belief that Lucifer is in league with God and God's instructions!) Demons seem to have a number of theorys on the subject. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 18:39:19 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Writing Canon At 2:54 PM -0700 5/11/98, Graveyard Greg wrote: >---Walter Milliken wrote: >> Elizabeth did the >> vignette at the front of Redemption in the IPG. >> >> I know Elizabeth wants this herself -- she's got at least 1-2 books >> worth of IN fiction already. Which she can't spread around >> generally, I believe, before someone asks. Right. Only a few people have seen them. >ELIZABETH DID THE REDEMPTION VIGNETTE???? p. IPG104 (and a little of 105): mine, yep. >I love that one! Thanks! >I also read her take on Lilith during the Dark Victory, and liked that >too... Thanks again! (I hope you like the official Lilith expanded writeup, to be published in FotM, too.) >Since I'm running out of Redneck Gaijin stuff, I want more Elizabeth >stuff! Well, there's "Hunt", by me and Maya, at the INC Fiction pages... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 17:31:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Elizabeth Bartley Subject: Re: IN> Children of the Grigori On Mon, 11 May 1998, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > The Children of the Grigori referenced in the > main book, however (and the ones who get the Capital Letters) are the > celestial children. They are indeed celestials. Which implies that > when their bodies are destroyed, they go to Limbo. And might or might > not be able to get out again later... I thought all the children the that the Grigori had with human woman were human with unusual potential. But it's still an interesting point: I wonder how many low-Will Grigori are stuck in Limbo. After all, none of them have Hearts, there aren't many of them to send Essence donations to each other, and if their Vessel gets killed they can't deal with an Archangel or Demon Prince for another -- so they've got a massive incentive to stay in Limbo until they get a decent Vessel. Hm, hm, hm. Yves would know their Names, and I believe that's all the information you need to send the Essence into Limbo for them.... Elizabeth Bartley e-bartley@pobox.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 15:57:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> Writing Canon - ---Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Thanks again! (I hope you like the official Lilith expanded > writeup, to be published in FotM, too.) > > >Since I'm running out of Redneck Gaijin stuff, I want more Elizabeth > >stuff! > > Well, there's "Hunt", by me and Maya, at the INC Fiction pages... Yah...some good stuff there..maybe one day I'll find one of my stories there... Can't wait to see the expanded Lilith writeup..If it's as good as the Heaven and Hell Dominic, Yves, Asmodeus, and Kronos--I will be a happy celestial, indeed! And whoever did the art for the Expanded Dominic should be given a nice pat on the back...In fact, Asmodeus was good too! But that Kronos pic..*brrrr* Creepy! ;) Graveyard Greg - --who still believes the Angel of Archives is the extension of the Library.... _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 19:04:45 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Children of the Grigori and Angels of Purity >>>as for the angels of Purity. we've had many nice (and not so nice) discussons about that section of _heaven and hell_. i believe that the Tsayadim are a lesser choir specific to Uriel, and i wrote them up that way, and that Baal and Kronos are speaking of that choir and not all servitors of purity.<<< That's not correct. "Tsayadim" refers to all Angels of Purity. (Add standard disclaimer about how you can make them a special Choir in your campaign if you want to, yadda yadda yadda.) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 98 19:13 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Re:Children of the Grigori and Angels of Purity [Krowe] >i think i remember reading somewhere, i think it was in _night music_, >that some 'natural born' Soldiers have the extra Force because of their >Grigori lineage. This may in fact be true. But are those people what are known as "Children of the Grigori"? I don't think so -- rather, that label is applied to the *celestial* offspring. It may be that there are both types produced: pure humans (albeit abnormally powerful ones) and pure celestials (possibly with the belief that they're human... until they die -- see the section in the core rules on death, on p. 67). - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 98 19:15 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Writing Canon > P.S. What volume on Sword & Sorceress was archbeths story in? S&S VII, I think. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 16:19:30 -0700 From: alloni@ibsystems.com (Alloni Kramer) Subject: IN> Re: Writing Canon >> Thanks again! (I hope you like the official Lilith expanded >> writeup, to be published in FotM, too.) >> >Can't wait to see the expanded Lilith writeup..If it's as good as the >Heaven and Hell Dominic, Yves, Asmodeus, and Kronos--I will be a happy >celestial, indeed! > >And whoever did the art for the Expanded Dominic should be given a >nice pat on the back...In fact, Asmodeus was good too! I'm still hoping and waiting and biting my fingernails for the Eli writeup. (Or has that already come out, and people are about to start pointing fingers at me and laughing?) Alloni ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 98 19:26 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Re: Writing Canon >I'm still hoping and waiting and biting my fingernails for the Eli writeup. It's not due to come out in the Revelations Cycle. I think all the Superiors will have been covered by the end of the next cycle, though. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 10:31:31 GMT+10 From: "Leath Sheales" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: Re: IN> What is the War about? Pee Kitty wrote: >>>None of the superiors can see the future (except Yves and Kronos, but they ain't talking)<<< I disagree with this. Yves and Kronos can not see the future, they can only see the possible futures, the Fates and Destinies. They are in the dark about what will actually happen as much as anyone else. From seeing the potential Fate and Destiny of everything, they've been telling anyone who will listen for years what will happen. The Destiny of the Symphony is that God and Heaven will triumph over the rebel demons. The Fate of the Symphony is that the demons will prove to be too powerful and will drag everything down into Hell with them. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 20:08:35 -0400 (EDT) From: "York H. Dobyns" Subject: Re: IN> Stat limits Regarding the not-yet-published-canon decision that Rites are a vehicle for allowing you to tap your Superior's Essence pool: Walter Milliken wrote: [I wrote a proposed fix for a disincentive to grant Rites that generate Essence directly for the practitioner, rather than giving them access to yours:] >> One obvious possibility >>is that granting somebody one of your Rites costs *you* character >>points; after all, you'll benefit from their practice of it. > >This doesn't work for Superiors, though, since cp represent (mostly) >credit with your Superior.... Also, cp aren't "real" objects in the >game-world -- there needs to be a game-world explanation. Thus, the >cost would have to be in Essence, Forces, or some other property that >*does* have a "real" existance in the IN world. Point taken. One of the other people on the list who grabbed this idea and ran with it proposed a 3 cp cost for granting a Rite. This *happens* to be exactly the cp cost of buying up an attribute. So a functionally equivalent implementation would be for granting a Rite to cost the grantor one attribute point. This would cost you a Force if and only if it carried you past a breakpoint of (total attributes in category exactly divisible by 4), which has the useful anti-munchkinizing feature of penalizing people who always buy whole Forces instead of buying up attributes individually. Attribute scores are an in-game reality, and the in-game justification seems fairly straightforward: attuning somebody else to your own Word to the point that they can draw Essence from the Symphony with it literally involves giving away a piece of yourself. >>[...] I have the impression that this feature is >>not yet frozen into published canon and I would *really* prefer a >>mechanic I liked over one that made no sense to me. > >Not quite, no, but it came down from On High (i.e., SJ), and changing it >requires consistency with the desired results, existing canon, and it >must be plausible within the IN game world itself. As regards the desired result of Superiors and Word-bound not giving away their Rites to everyone they meet, the above proposal, which makes granting a Rite about one-fourth as painful as having a Force stripped, should be an adequate disincentive. The discussion in Kronos' expanded writeup about the trick he can pull by attaching one of his own personal Forces onto someone suggests that not even Superiors endure Force loss with complete equanimity. I attempted to provide a plausible in-game-world justification. With regard to consistency with existing canon, permit me to point out (again) that the published versions of Thor and Loki in H&H have Rites they can practice to gain Essence. They definitely don't have Superiors -- as major deities of their pantheon they would *be* the ethereal equivalent of Superiors, if they hadn't lost so many Forces to Uriel's Purge. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 01:40:28 +0100 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Stat limits At 17:25 11/05/98 EDT, you wrote: >[Jo:] >>So, assuming that rites actually do generate essence for the relevant >>word-bound who returns some to the one who did the rite, what other reasons >>might there be for superiors not just teaching them to all comers? > >[list clipped] > >The problem, as such, with this list is that it assumes teaching Rites >to *other* Superior's Servitors. Most Superiors will have other Rites >than the ones listed, so there's a problem with their *own* Servitors -- >why doesn't the Superior grant every right they know? Ahh, OK. I assumed they _did_ tend to grant every rite they knew to their own servitors. Maybe not as a deliberate act, it was just one of the by-products of being created by a specific superior. Not only do you get their particular 'take' on your choir/ band (the relevant choir/ band attunement) but you come already tuned up to their word (in terms of rites). Certainly in the main book, it doesn't say 'Pick any 2 of your superior's rites' when it discusses character creation. Admittedly this requires a bit of smoothing over if you buy any of the supplements with the expanded superior write-ups and want to use the additional rites, but that is pretty much the case anyway. No celestial can have more essence than its total forces, and there are still only 24 hours in the day ;) Is there a canon rule somewhere about how many rites a starting character should have? jo "In matters of grave importance, style, not sincerity, is the vital thing." - -- Oscar Wilde ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 01:45:02 +0100 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Ceilings and Superiors At 16:49 11/05/98 -0400, you wrote: > >>That's the Word-bound, in my opinion. We don't really have rules for >>them as PCs yet -- just the vaguest outlines. > >Exactly. All that's been shown so far, in general, have been low >to mid-level WordBound, with a few exceptions. > I have another question on this 'superiors needing at least 18 forces' thing. Does anyone really think Saminga has Intelligence 12? ;) jo "In matters of grave importance, style, not sincerity, is the vital thing." - -- Oscar Wilde ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 18:55:07 +0100 From: Roland Ward Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- What's the best source of info... > Sure, just don't tangle them with celestials. It could be a slaughter. > Go after televangelists instead. > Well the way I read it they wouldn't get slaughtered by the celestials - it's the soldiers you have to worry about....TV evangelists? Well I was thinking more the Spice Girls ... > Bart Hammerly > > "Time is the fire in which we burn." > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 18:30:33 PDT From: "David Streeter" Subject: IN> Plot Seed: Limbo Unleashed Vapula discovers a way to bring back ALL of the (mad, low willed) celestials from Limbo. 'nuff said. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 21:38:30 -0700 From: Drake Subject: IN> Statistics for Superiors (Take 2) - Rather long Hiya, Well I have taken all the various responces to my eariler posts of this a while back and have been tinkering with this and I do believe I have developed a pretty good quantification of the Superior's power levels. FORCES - Superior's Forces range from 14-36 (Rare exceptions when they go lower or higher). Word-bound Celestials and Superiors will have a 4th Force, Word Forces. This Force can range between 1-12 (Non-Superior Celestials have a limit of 6) and is determined by how powerful a beings Word is. The Word Force is added in with the rest of the Forces to determine Essence. The Word Force has 2 Characteristics: Sense and Resonance. Sense allows the Celestial to perceive how his or her Word is doing in the Symphony (Make a roll similar to a Disturbance roll for any major occurance related to the Word). Resonance gives the Celestial the ability to manipulate the rules in respect to his or her Word. This is explained below in various situations. FORCE ADVANCEMENT - A Superior has to spend 20 character points in order to gain a new Force. If the Superior loses 20 character points (From failing to promote their Word for example), the Superior loses 1 Word Force. When this happens, the Superior rolls against his or her Word Force and if he or she fails, they lose 1 Core Force, determined randomly. DISSONANCE - Superiors suffer from the same Dissonance that they restrict their followers to as well as the Dissonance of his or her Choir/Band and the Choir/Bands whose Resonance the Superior has. Superiors can break the rules sometimes. This can be done by making a Word Force Resonance roll with a CD of 6. If successful, the Superior gains no Dissonance for an action that would normally give the Superior Dissonance. ATTUNEMENTS and DISTINCTIONS - Superiors have every Choir/Band and Servitor Attunements they give their servents, as well as possessing all the abilities their Distinctions grant. Superiors may have the Resonance and Dissonance of the Choirs or Bands whose Choir Attunements are depended upon a Resonance (Example, Michael's Cherubim Attunement requires the Cherub Resonance, so thus Michael would have the Cherub Res and Diss as well). Note: This does not give every Superior every Resonance of every Choir/Band. RITES - Superiors possess all Rites they give out, plus several more (Equal to their Word Forces. Ex., You have 4 Word Forces, you have a total of 4 Rites). Word-Bound and Superiors gain 1 Essence each time one of their Servitors performs one of their personal Rites. To simplify this so as not to have to account for every servent out there, simply say the Superior gains 1d per Rite they give to their servents x 10 per day and Word-Bound Celestials would gain 1 per Rite they give to their servents per day (If they have any). Superiors also gain 1 character point per minor promotion of their Word, 2 for major, and 3 for drastic change, as well as the same amount in Essence. The Essence is gained at the end of the day and the greatest promotion of the Word is the one that determines how much Essence is gained (Michael promoted his Word a minor time and a major time. He would gain 2 Essence at the end of the day for the Major promotion). The reverse of this can also happen.. The Superior loses 1 character point for each minor failure at promotion of the Word, -2 for major, and - -3 for drastic. Essence is also handled the same way, losing Essence for failing to promote the Word. TETHERS - In order for a Superior to have any Influence in the Corporeal World, they must have at least 1 Tether. The Word Force of Superiors is somewhat dependent upon their Tethers. For every 1% of a Superior's Tethers that are destroyed, then the Superior loses 0.2% of his Total Word Forces, rounding up (Example, Michael loses 50% of his Tethers, then his Word Force would drop by 10%, say from 12 to 11). ESSENCE CACHE - Superiors have an Essence Cache similar to Ethereals, equal to 100 times their total Core Forces (Corporeal, Ethereal, Celestial), which is used for creating Vessels, Artifacts, Mundane Objects and Celestials, and nothing else. Word-Bound Celestials have an Essence Cache equal to 10 times their total Core Forces, and can only be used for the same things as a Superior. CREATING ANGELS and DEMONS - Superiors, thru their Essence and a special Song (See Below), are able to take either some of their Forces, other Celestial's Forces, or using Essence to create the Forces (same as a vessel.. 75 Essence per Force for a humaniod being, including Angels and Demons). If the Superior uses existing Forces, this cost would be divided by 5 (Angels would cost 25 Essence per Force if using existing Forces). SONGS AND SKILLS - Superiors buy Songs and Skills as normal characters. Superiors know every Skill and Song at 2 for young Superiors, 4 for average Superiors, and 6 for Ancient Superiors. Note that Superiors can easily buy these at higher levels using their Resource points (All songs and skills cost double once past 6), or boost them with Essence; Also, Ancient, non-Superior Celestials may have these as well, but will cost the Celestial 10 points for the Skills and 10 points for the Songs. All Superior level Songs can inflict twice as much damage as normal songs, and all other affects of the songs are roughly 10 times their normal levels (such as distance, area of effect, etc) and are at times capable of greater feats of power, sometimes equalling that of an Intervention roll when the GM rules it to be appropriate. EMPOWER ATTUNEMENT - This Attunement allows the user to bestow a special Attunement, Rite, or some other capability. Each use of this Attunement costs the Superior 1 Essence per character point that the power would cost. CREATION - All Superiors have in effect, the Attunements of Abracadabra, Transubstantion, Elohite and Mercurian of Creation, which they refer to as a Song of Creation. The Superior my create artifacts quicker then 1 month/level of the artifact if they so wish. To do this, they may of course use the Song of Artifacts (as per the Liber Reliquarum) as well as using additional Essence. Each Essence put into this Song will divide the total time by half. Example, the Superior is wanting to create an Artifact/2, which would normally take 2 months. He could pump 3 Essence into the creation and it would only take him 1 week. Most Superiors, as they do have a large Essence Cache, often put quite a bit of Essence into the creation so that they can virtually create the artifact in a matter of seconds. The Superior may also move an existing object for half the cost of creating it, or Alter it in some way for 1/10th the cost. Note that other beings may help in this creation, adding all of their Essence into 1 large pool for creation. The Degree of Disturbance is equal to the amount of Essence used. SPACE and TIME - All Superiors are capable of being in more then one place at a time. They may be in as many places at any one time as they have Forces in that realm. Also, Superiors are somewhat outside of the loop of time and thus can travel anywhere in an instant simply by stepping out of time and moving to the desired location and stepping back in time. They may not how ever time-travel as this is strictly forbidden by His will. Not even the Ethereals nor Demon Princes my travel through time using their own powers. - ------------- Song of Life This Song allows the singer to create Life. Corporeal version creates a physical body, the Ethereal version creates a mind and the Celestial version creates a soul. To create an Angel would require Ethereal and Celestial (To create its mind and soul) and Corporeal if granting a Vessel (And for Humans, all 3 versions must be known. Essence Requirement: 15 per Force for tiny things like insects, mice, or small birds. 30 per Force for small creatures like cats. 45 per Force for medium-sized creatures like a dog. 60 per Force for large beasts like a bear or a child. 75 per Force for a human, celestial, or other such being, as well as larger beasts like dolphins. 90 per Force for the truely grand beasts such as whales. If the singer is using existing Forces, the cost would be divided by 5. Degree of Disturbance: Equal to the Essence spent plus the number of Forces created. - --------- Well there ya go.. Hopefully this time I have gotten it a little more accurate :) Amon-Nahashel "Drake" Malakite of War, in service to Laurence. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 21:59:10 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Ceilings and Superiors At 1:45 AM +0100 5/12/98, Jo Hart wrote: >At 16:49 11/05/98 -0400, you wrote: >> >>>That's the Word-bound, in my opinion. We don't really have rules for >>>them as PCs yet -- just the vaguest outlines. >> >>Exactly. All that's been shown so far, in general, have been low >>to mid-level WordBound, with a few exceptions. > >I have another question on this 'superiors needing at least 18 forces' thing. > >Does anyone really think Saminga has Intelligence 12? ;) He may have Int 12, but he is still *dumb*... It's not what ya got, it's how you use it? Hm. Saminga's Intelligence probably manifests as raw animal cunning. He's stupid, but sometimes he comes up with something very clever, usually in a brute force kind of way... Either that, or Lucifer liked the undead so much that he boosted Saminga and forgot to fix the intelligence... O;> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 23:24:14 +0900 From: Simon Hailes Subject: Re: IN>Demon Prince Auditions At 03:12 AM 5/05/98 +0900, you wrote: >A >The Final Cuts for Andre, Asmo and Beleth are in folks, and I am damn >sorry to all those who didn't make it blah, blah. > >Andrealphus-Congrats to Antonio Banderas, not only can you play the >ultimate sleaze, your spanish just like I believe Andre to be. > >Asmodeus-Ohh, this was a toughie, you all did really well, but Anthony >Hopkins was the one who made it through, good for you! > >Beleth-Angelica Huston, I saw an Addams Family rerun a couple days back, >your right, she is good for the role, and quite hot for someone from her >era :) > >Baal-Billy Zane (sorry but he was so cool in Demon Knight, and The Phantom too!) Belial-Laurence Fishburne, an all around good actor although I've never seen him play a bad guy so I'm hoping he will do a good job. Kobal-Ouch, one wrong step here and you'll all be howling for my blood! but I went ahead with Dennis Leary since a number of you suggested him. Next in line for the casting, Kronos,Malphas and Nybbas. Oh yeah, by the way, can this not turn in to an argument about Babylon 5 this time. I mean it may be a good show and all but I've got a movie to make! Simon, Working hard to bring about In Nomine the Movie > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 22:24:10 -0700 From: Drake Subject: IN> Statistics for Superiors (Take 2, Part 2) Heya, Well going with the number of Forces I figured for Superiors and given the Word Force, I have been going about the task of giving Force levels to the Superiors.. and have a while back, me and 2 guys I know discussed about the relative power levels of the Superiors, this is what I have come up with so far. Superior Corporeal Ethereal Celestial Word Total Lucifer 12 12 12 24 60 Yves 6 14 13 21 54 Kronos 7 14 12 18 51 Michael 13 12 13 12 50 Asmodeus 11 12 11 15 49 Baal 12 12 12 12 48 David 13 11 12 12 48 Eli 7 12 10 18 47 Gabriel 12 11 12 12 47 Dominic 10 12 11 11 44 Blandine 6 14 11 11 42 Kobal 8 12 10 11 41 Malphas 10 10 10 11 41 Beleth 6 13 10 11 40 Jean 7 13 8 11 39 Belial 11 6 11 10 38 Jordi 11 7 10 9 37 Janus, Valefor 10 9 9 9 37 Laurence 9 6 9 12 36 Andrealphas 8 8 8 9 35 Saminga 12 10 4 8 34 Haagenti 10 10 5 8 33 Marc 5 11 8 8 32 Vapula 4 12 8 8 32 Novalis 4 10 9 8 31 Khalid 10 5 8 7 30 Nybbas 5 10 8 7 30 Lilith 5 5 7 12 29 (Her Word is linked to creating the Lilim) Litheroy 3 9 9 7 28 Mammon 5 8 7 7 27 Zadkiel 6 7 6 7 26 Fleurity 4 9 6 6 25 Alaemon 5 6 8 6 25 Christopher 4 6 8 6 24 Furfur 6 4 5 5 20 Amon-Nahashel "Drake" Malakite of War, in service to Laurence ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 23:33:38 -0400 From: IceHeart EvenFall Subject: IN> Horrible Conspiracy? 'k. I have a pet Superior. Gabriel has always been my favorite Superior, and the various inhabitants of the Marches were always my LEAST fav. Now, is it coincidence that the best Superior in the series is in a book that I likely otherwise wouldn't consider buying at all? Nah, it's all the SJGer people who hate me.. Anyway, onto the point of the mail. Couls someone point out the various good points (Redeeming features?) of The Marches? IceHeart, Calabim servitor of Belial - -------------------------------------------------------------------- IceHeart [iceheart@iceheart.org] [http://www.iceheart.org] "Some days the line I walk turns out to be straight, other days the line tends to Deviate" - Ani DiFranco ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 22:39:02 -0500 From: Uncle Wolf Subject: Re: Fans of the Writings of Archangel Beth (was Re: IN> Writing Canon) > ---Shadowcat wrote: > > I for one would like to see them, if not here, then on private > > e-mail > > > > Shadowcat > Graveyard Greg wrote: > Same here, Shadowcat! > Add in my vote!!! [retch! another "me too" post from someone who swore never to do it! But ArchBeth's writings are worth it, as are Redneck's, just to name a couple off the top of my head] tom t. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #773 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.