From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue May 12 13:21:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA32706 for ; Tue, 12 May 1998 13:21:06 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id MAA09481 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 12 May 1998 12:36:09 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 12:36:09 -0500 Message-Id: <199805121736.MAA09481@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #774 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, May 12 1998 Volume 01 : Number 774 In this digest: Re: IN> Stat limits Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors (Take 2) - Rather long Re: IN>Demon Prince Auditions Re: IN>Demon Prince Auditions Re: IN> What's the best source of info... Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors (Take 2, Part 2) Re: IN> IN: Superiors, Rites and Essence Re: IN> Stat limits Re: IN> Horrible Conspiracy? Re: IN> Stat limits Re: IN> Ceilings and Superiors Re: IN> Comics (Re: Writing Canon) Re: IN> Stat limits Re: IN> Stat limits Re: IN> Ceilings and Superiors Re: IN> Horrible Conspiracy? Re: Fans of the Writings of Archangel Beth (was Re: IN> Writing Canon) Re: IN> Stat limits Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors (Take 2) - Rather long IN> An INtroduction Re: IN> What's the best source of info... Re: IN> Ceilings and Superiors Ethereals and Words (was Re: IN> Stat limits) Re: IN> Name for the Songbook Re: Fans of the Writings of Archangel Beth (was Re: IN> Writing Canon) Re: IN> Ceilings and Superiors Re: Fans of the Writings of Archangel Beth (was Re: IN> Writing Canon) Re: IN> Horrible Conspiracy? Re: IN> An INtroduction Re: IN>Demon Prince Auditions Re: IN> Comics--Fluff ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 02:29:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Stat limits On Tue, 12 May 1998, Jo Hart wrote: > Ahh, OK. I assumed they _did_ tend to grant every rite they knew to their > own servitors. Maybe not as a deliberate act, it was just one of the > by-products of being created by a specific superior. Not only do you get > their particular 'take' on your choir/ band (the relevant choir/ band > attunement) but you come already tuned up to their word (in terms of > rites). Certainly in the main book, it doesn't say 'Pick any 2 of your > superior's rites' when it discusses character creation. Admittedly this > requires a bit of smoothing over if you buy any of the supplements with the > expanded superior write-ups and want to use the additional rites, but that > is pretty much the case anyway. It's more like this: The rites in the main book are the rites that *every* celestial serving that superior gets. A few superiors have been given extra rites in their extended writeups; as I understand it, these are not automatically given to anyone, but are a very common reward for their Servitors. I would assume that a Superior actually has a nearly infinite number of rites that they could give, as long as each was directly related to furthering their Word...that's why I don't even think twice about making up a new rite on the spot as a Superior-granted reward for player characters. Kobal recently gave one the rite: "Do one incredibly funny thing to a person that completely destroys their life", for example. I think it fits. BTW, though no one has played a Servitor of Beleth yet, if they did, I would *definitely* come up with at least *one* other rite for them. I mean, ONE rite? Sheesh...someone come up with another one and make it an errata, please. :) Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! And finally, a special message to \|/ ____ \|/ anyone who thinks I give a damn... ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 02:37:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors (Take 2) - Rather long This is very, VERY good. I like it a LOT. I hope the canon-meisters on the list take a good, long look at it. While it might not fit their views perfectly, I would be very surprised if there wasn't a LOT of stuff in there that they could use. Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! And finally, a special message to \|/ ____ \|/ anyone who thinks I give a damn... ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 02:47:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN>Demon Prince Auditions On Mon, 11 May 1998, Simon Hailes wrote: > >Baal-Billy Zane (sorry but he was so cool in Demon Knight, and The Phantom > too!) This is the only one I can't even see...I *love* Billy Zane (he was the only good thing in Demon Knight), but as the Prince of War? Nah... > Next in line for the casting, Kronos,Malphas and Nybbas. Oh yeah, by the > way, can this not turn in to an argument about Babylon 5 this time. I mean > it may be a good show and all but I've got a movie to make! Okay, here we go... KRONOS: Doug Bradley. (Who?) He played Pinhead, in Hellraiser. Dark, forboding, calm and collected, evil. MALPHAS: Mark Alaimo. I mentioned him earlier in the thread; I believe someone wanted him as War. I think he'd be the perfect Malphas. He's great at playing pseudo-friendly, scheming, patronizing, probing, and just being one of those bad guys that you still really like. NYBBAS: (Preparing to duck...) Jim Carrey. (Looking around until the coast is clear.) Yes, I said that anyone who wanted him as Dark Humor needed their head examined; I still do. But I think he'd be a great Nybbas. He's so FAKE. He's funny in a stupid way, and he's great at being manic, superficial, and fast-talking. The Riddler was very close to Nybbas, IMO. Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! And finally, a special message to \|/ ____ \|/ anyone who thinks I give a damn... ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 04:07:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN>Demon Prince Auditions On Mon, 11 May 1998, Simon Hailes wrote: > Next in line for the casting, Kronos,Malphas and Nybbas. Oh yeah, by the Kronos: Michael Ansara. Played Elric the Technomage in a B5 episode (sorry Simon!) and does the voice for Mr. Freeze in the animated Batman. Educated, calculating, cold. Malphas: Ed Wasser. (Mr. Morden, again from B5.) Nybbas: James Woods, especially in his role from _Contact_. - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 10:08:56 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> What's the best source of info... On Mon, May 11, 1998 at 05:35:00PM -0400, Walter Milliken wrote: > This is one way to start, whether it's a good one depends on your > group. Don't pit humans against celestials, though, without major > firepower (maybe a few relics) -- humans die too easily in such > situations.... > Well, that depends. Some of the 9 Force Celestials I've made could just about fight their way out of a paper bag. Of course, those likely aren't the ones who draw attention to themselves, but who can say what'll happen during a campaign? In that group I'd include most of my Habbalah, my Elohim, and my Calabim. Most of the rest fall into the "could take out the average policeman/gang member" category. There are a total of three who I reckon would have a chance of beating 3 or 4 somewhat armed mundanes. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "If you let it get too far it would be the end of everything. You would have bicycles wanting votes and they would get seats on the County Council and make the roads far worse than they are for their own ulterior motivation." The Third Policeman, by Flann O'Brien. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 10:30:39 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors (Take 2, Part 2) On Mon, May 11, 1998 at 10:24:10PM -0700, Drake wrote: > Superior Corporeal Ethereal Celestial Word Total > Saminga 12 10 4 8 34 (Saminga was ranked 21st. Everyone above him has higher Word Forces. I find it hard to analyse something as big as that list all at one go, but I have to quibble with this one. Firstly, Death is quite a big Word. Even if understood only in the sense of premature death, it still affects quite large numbers of people, and has a significant impact on those people. Secondly, 10 Ethereal Forces? Admittedly his work with the undead was quite innovative, and I'd be willing to give him bucketloads of Precision, but the impression given of him is that he only maintains his position because of his strength, and through simple-minded paranoia. And 4 Celestial Forces? The guy is a Shedite, and Celestial Forces have always been a priority for them. He doesn't need 12 Corporeal Forces either, not with the Shedite of Death attunement. And the measure of a bruiser in Hell is Celestial Forces rather than Corporeal Forces. I've always assumed that Saminga was just too powerful for one Prince to take out, with the exceptions of Baal and Belial, and that both of them have no real reason to do so, and would also suffer too severely. I know that list must have taken a lot of work, and I probably couldn't do as good a job myself, but I have to argue with this one. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "If you let it get too far it would be the end of everything. You would have bicycles wanting votes and they would get seats on the County Council and make the roads far worse than they are for their own ulterior motivation." The Third Policeman, by Flann O'Brien. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 11:58:52 +0200 (DFT) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> IN: Superiors, Rites and Essence On Mon, 11 May 1998, Hart, Joanna wrote: [excellent ideas snipped] > I think that'd work, conceptually :) I like it! I think I'll use this, or something very similar, IMC... if the issue ever comes up, which it probably won't. :) Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! "Jag har känsla för feeling" - Dom Dummaste ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 12:03:18 +0200 (DFT) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> Stat limits On Mon, 11 May 1998, York H. Dobyns wrote: > With regard to consistency with existing > canon, permit me to point out (again) that the published versions of > Thor and Loki in H&H have Rites they can practice to gain Essence. They > definitely don't have Superiors -- as major deities of their pantheon > they would *be* the ethereal equivalent of Superiors, if they hadn't > lost so many Forces to Uriel's Purge. Just a minor nit - Odin is the head of the Aesir, and in practice the Superior of Thor and Loki. (Even though Loki is actually of Giant descent.) Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! "Jag har känsla för feeling" - Dom Dummaste ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 10:42:24 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Horrible Conspiracy? On Mon, May 11, 1998 at 11:33:38PM -0400, IceHeart EvenFall wrote: > 'k. I have a pet Superior. Gabriel has always been my favorite Superior, Was never mine. Although a Power of Fire might be fun. > and the various inhabitants of the Marches were always my LEAST fav. Now, I always thought Beleth was cool, and Calabim of Beleth really fun. (I also think that Habbalah of Beleth have the best collective Habbalite delusion. Can't you just imagine them referring to themselves as the Angels of Fear?) Anyway, don't you want to work for the most directly influential Superiors on Earth? > is it coincidence that the best Superior in the series is in a book that I > likely otherwise wouldn't consider buying at all? Nah, it's all the SJGer > people who hate me.. Possibly it's Celestial geography. Possibly it's the connection between Fire as inspiration and Dreams. Anyway, onto the point of the mail. Couls someone > point out the various good points (Redeeming features?) of The Marches? > Well, it has the expanded writeup of Blandine and Beleth in it. And the Sorcery stuff is quite good. And the writeups of Gabriel and Belial are quite nice too, and include funky attunements, should you be so inclined. For Servitors of Belial, Eyes of Blight and Domino Effect are very nice indeed. (Although I thought the bit on Dominic's opinion on Gabriel was silly. Dominic is not a lunatic, IMO.) And the stuff on Ethereal spirits can be fun, if you're prepared to work at it. And there are some proper rules for living and working in the Marches. And Pachadim. Pachadim are cool. On the bad side, it's terribly organised. Really really badly organised. And there's that annoying scenario at the back. And some of the rules for Belial's attunements in it are silly. How likely are you to succeed when rolling against your Celestial Forces? I think one of those occurences was errataed, but not the other. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "If you let it get too far it would be the end of everything. You would have bicycles wanting votes and they would get seats on the County Council and make the roads far worse than they are for their own ulterior motivation." The Third Policeman, by Flann O'Brien. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 05:18:26 -0700 From: Sean McCarthy Subject: Re: IN> Stat limits *** Below is something that might remotely be a No Dinero spoiler*** Anders Gabrielsson wrote: > > Just a minor nit - Odin is the head of the Aesir, and in practice the > Superior of Thor and Loki. (Even though Loki is actually of Giant > descent.) So to your mind, would only Odin have been Superior level? I like to think that in their prime, several of the Aesir might have been tether-consecrating, servitor-creating scary folks. Thor's defeat, after all, was probably just the result of Divine Intervention. ;) I see Odin as being the only remaining Superior, but not necessarily the only one back in the day. New idea...can Ethereals have Words? Even to some lesser degree? Or would being God of Thunder simply imply that being your main area of focus without any special status in the Symphony? Sean(Who by name alone should be nowhere near Thor) (joke) (Heaven and Hell, p.119) Under Thor, add the following: "Attunements: God of Thunder" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 09:56:03 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Ceilings and Superiors On Tue, 12 May 1998, Jo Hart wrote: > I have another question on this 'superiors needing at least 18 forces' thing. > > Does anyone really think Saminga has Intelligence 12? ;) Of course. He just acts stupid, to catch others off guard. Richard "Mr. Uriel" Gant ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 08:25:08 -0700 (PDT) From: "Matt 'Badger' Rossi III" Subject: Re: IN> Comics (Re: Writing Canon) > > At 1:13 PM +0200 5/11/98, Anders Gabrielsson wrote: > >On Mon, 11 May 1998, Simon Hailes wrote: > >> At 02:07 AM 11/05/98 -0500, you wrote: > >> >As for comics... ugh. Comics aren't the same as they used to be when I was > >> >a kid... [...] > > > >> Arent we being just a little jaded? I think comics are just as good as > >> ever, [...] > > > >I agree. There are lots of really good comics [...] > > And this is pertaining to In Nomine *how*, by this point in the > thread? In an attempt to at once bring it back into topic and also get myself involved I'll list those comics which have the proper In Nomine feel, and which have helped me in my gaming: 1) John Constantine, Hellblazer - The Ultimate Grey Soldier: He personified the standing between Heaven and Hell some players seek. 2) Alan Moore's Swamp Thing - Specifically Swamp Thing's descent into Hell (Think you God built these halls/ and not lusts unquenched or swords unsheathed?/ No my friend, the truth's more horrible still/ these halls were built by man ere he still breathed.) 3) JLA 6-7. Okay, so it was weird... 4) The Phantom STrnger's Secret Origin's Annual. Especially the story about him being a fallen angel... > > (Me, I want In Nomine XXXenophile... Seraphim in Celtic Knots!) > > > --Beth, Demon Princess of Nitpicking > http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/INChar/Demons/Prince.Beth.html > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 98 11:23 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Stat limits > So a functionally >equivalent implementation would be for granting a Rite to cost the >grantor one attribute point. That might work. > This would cost you a Force if and only if >it carried you past a breakpoint of (total attributes in category exactly >divisible by 4), which has the useful anti-munchkinizing feature of >penalizing people who always buy whole Forces instead of buying up >attributes individually. I don't think Word-bound PC Rites have been at issue, really -- this decision was really aimed at understanding why Superiors do, or don't, grant lots of Rites to everyone, not at curbing munchkin Word-bound. I believe there are also some other reasons why it's desired to have Servitors draw Rite Essence from their Superior, but I'm not entirely sure about those.... > With regard to consistency with existing >canon, permit me to point out (again) that the published versions of >Thor and Loki in H&H have Rites they can practice to gain Essence. They're Ethereals, not celestial Superiors, so they presumably don't have to work the same way (and probably shouldn't). And even if they did, it wouldn't be the first time a problem cropped up in H&H.... There is still a problem with your proposed fix, in that it doesn't explain the ability of DPs to turn off Rites to Renegades, and turn them back on again for the redemeed (and without being able to track Renegades fairly trivially). This is now pretty solidly canon. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 98 11:30 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Stat limits >Ahh, OK. I assumed they _did_ tend to grant every rite they knew to their >own servitors. Maybe not as a deliberate act, it was just one of the >by-products of being created by a specific superior. Not only do you get >their particular 'take' on your choir/ band (the relevant choir/ band >attunement) but you come already tuned up to their word (in terms of >rites). This doesn't quite match up with the canon version of the redemption process, where you get Rites first, and only later do you pick up the Choir attunement. Also, Rites are granted much more casually to other Superiors' Servitors than attunements are, so they're clearly a different sort of thing. There's also the problem with redeemed demons retaining their former DP's Rites. >No celestial can have more essence than its total forces, and there are >still only 24 hours in the day ;) Is there a canon rule somewhere about how >many rites a starting character should have? Not explicitly, but I believe all the Superiors are set up to allow up to 3 additional Essence per day from Rites -- there are some with fewer than 3 Rites, but I believe the remaining Rites make up for it. There may be an exception or two, though (I don't have the book here with me). - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 98 11:34 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Ceilings and Superiors >I have another question on this 'superiors needing at least 18 forces' thing. > >Does anyone really think Saminga has Intelligence 12? ;) He may be an exception, or it may just be that Saminga doesn't bother to *use* his intelligence for anything but research into making bigger and better undead.... The problem with giving him a lower stat is that it will encourage PCs to use Ethereal Charm or similar things on him, and expect it to work. Which it probably shouldn't. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 11:27:36 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Horrible Conspiracy? At 11:33 PM -0400 5/11/98, IceHeart EvenFall wrote: >Couls someone point out the various good points >(Redeeming features?) of The Marches? Good Points: Best Cover of the Cycle (so far) except for the feathered fright wig. (It shoulda been a mane of feathers going down her back, it *shoulda*!) Art by Heather Bruton, Carol Scavella, and Ramon Perez (who is uneven IMO, but his Gabriel picture is to *die* for, also IMO), among others. Useful stuff on the Marches themselves -- dreamscapes, ethereal gods, pagan Soldiers, etc. Sorcery rules that can give you ideas. Bad points: Go read the errata file for it first. Some unclear attunements. Some Sorcery stuff just doesn't grab *me*. It was the Interregnum of Line Editors. 'Nuff Said. The adventure... Um, yes, well, very nice I'm sure. But it really shouldn't have been in *this* book, I'm afraid. Frankly, if you like Gabriel, you should buy this *just* for the great picture by Perez. It is that good... Overall, *I* liked _The Marches_ okay. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 11:40:19 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: Fans of the Writings of Archangel Beth (was Re: IN> Writing Canon) At 10:39 PM -0500 5/11/98, Uncle Wolf wrote: >>---Shadowcat wrote: >>> I for one would like to see them, if not here, then on private >>> e-mail > >>Graveyard Greg wrote: >>Same here, Shadowcat! > >Add in my vote!!! [retch! another "me too" post from someone who swore >never to do it! But ArchBeth's writings are worth it, as are Redneck's, >just to name a couple off the top of my head] Tough. I'm trying to preserve *some* mysteries, for folks to buy when/if In Nomine fiction becomes legit. (But I *am* flattered, guys!) If you *really* want more of my stuff, though... There's some non-In Nomine works in _Pawprints_ -- go to my homepage (www.io.com/~arcangel) and follow the links to order them. (Make Lynx, my friend & the editor, happy!) Also, there's GURPS IOU (aka GURPS Illuminati University), which has only a few hundred copies left -- go order yours at the www.sjgames.com online-ordering site. It has great Phil & Kaja Foglio art in it, and gets us royalties... And then there's Sword & Sorceress #7, edited by Marion Zimmer Bradley. My first publication. It's been reprinted at least once. Go bug your bookstore so they'll reprint it again and give me more royalties... O;> And, of course, there's the IPG, with Lilim, Infernal Interventions (which were cribbed severly from Edelstein's Divine Interventions from the APG) and Redemption (esp. the vignette). Oh, yeah, and p. 22. If you subscribe to Pyramid, there's the IOU Spells and IOU Designer's Article in back-issues (I think). There is likely to be more in the future -- which will be more IN-related. If you go over to http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~maya/nomine/fiat.html, you can see me guest-starring as an intermittant NPC (Jordan, Seraph of Judgment with a Good View), including a brief interlude there (which has no real plot content whatsoever, but for some reason the guy is popular among the players, so Maya put it up) which my name is not on. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 98 11:43 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Stat limits [Pee Kitty:] > I would assume that a Superior actually has a nearly infinite >number of rites that they could give, as long as each was directly related >to furthering their Word... That's been my assumption too, though I'm not sure there's actually any canon on it either way, other than the fact that Superiors clearly have more Rites than the basic ones listed in the core book. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 98 11:53 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors (Take 2) - Rather long >This is very, VERY good. I like it a LOT. I hope the canon-meisters on the >list take a good, long look at it. While it might not fit their views >perfectly, I would be very surprised if there wasn't a LOT of stuff in >there that they could use. I looked at it, but it seems more aimed at *playing* Superiors, which, while a valid concept, isn't the intended direction of IN as I understand it. I also think it may bring Superiors too far down in power, but I'd have to think about it in more detail. My own attempts at Superior mechanics have also been *much* looser, since I haven't been trying to really quantify them beyond rough order-of-magnitude sorts of things. Even that is probably too detailed for canonization. The other reaction I had to the proposed mechanics is that they're a bit too complex for a game intended to be rules-light. That's fine if you want it, but I wouldn't expect anything that complex to ever make it into canon. (Except the disturbance rules, which just about everyone wants to fix....) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 10:51:14 -0400 From: crossbyte@juno.com Subject: IN> An INtroduction Fellow Gamers, I'd like to take a moment to introduce myself to the list. I am interested in IN, although as of yet I am not playing. I have done a lot of stuff with the Star Wars RPG, and in fact was looking at creating my own Angel/Demon RPG when I heard about In Nomine. My personal, uncut and honest opinion (being an orthodox Roman Catholic-wild and reeling as G.K. would say) is that SJ games has done more right than wrong with this game. There's a lot of stuff I really think was a great inspiration, such as the realms, forces, etc. There's still a lot of things that "rub me the wrong way" as you might say, but hey- it's only a game. Now, since I've taken enough of your time, here's my point: I am looking for help with game mechanics (I don't have any books yet) and the In Nomine cosmos. In exchange I have a access to a *lot* of "official" catholic and christian teachings on angels...by browsing the archives I noticed there were a few discussions of that sort on this list. As for a few quick questions...what are the rites? The snippets of the books I have don't mention them, but they appear in a lot of character sheets on the net... TIA! "Entertaining Angels While the night becomes history Host of heaven Sing over me" - -"Entertaining Angels", Newsboys "Who's that stranger there beside you? Don't be smug and don't be cruel; Maybe we are entertaining angels unawares" - -"Angels Unawares" Michael W. Smith "Angels are watching you overtime They can't understand why a child of the King Would be happier living with swine." - -"Star in the Book of Life" Big Tent Revival ...The wild truth, reeling but erect. - -G.K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy ____________________________ http://www.mrmark.com/forums/virtualireland/ http://www.angelfire.com/nj/RIMworld/ _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 98 11:57 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> What's the best source of info... >On Mon, May 11, 1998 at 05:35:00PM -0400, Walter Milliken wrote: >> Don't pit humans against celestials, though, without major >> firepower (maybe a few relics) -- humans die too easily in such >> situations.... >> >Well, that depends. Some of the 9 Force Celestials I've made could just >about fight their way out of a paper bag. Yes, but all that happens to them is that they go into Trauma for a while, and then need a new vessel. A dead human is *dead* and, unless the GM makes them into a Saint, isn't coming back. (And if they go to Hell, they're pretty much toasted.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 12:11:00 -0400 From: John Karakash - LUCENT ASCC Subject: Re: IN> Ceilings and Superiors Walter Milliken wrote: > >Then how do you account for the power gap between powerful-but-still-in- > >PC-range Masters/Barons and AAs/DPs? What makes Ambassadors/Dukes/etc so > >special? Here's my take on the situation. Run-of-the-mill celestials Can vary greatly in power, but are still closely tied to the Word of their Superior. Higher-level distinctions indicate stronger ties and more powers. Common Wordbound The celestial is still beholden to their Superior, but they can start expanding their own power. Their Word is probably a subset or at least tangetially related to their boss's. From there they can start developing their own range of unique abilities and powers. AA/DP They've been recognized and elevated. Their Word is now independent and can go off in a variety of different ways. Plus there are things that AAs/DPs can do that the common wordbound can't. (There's a lot of them... both quantitative and qualitative.) Their powers are so great that you can't quantify them with the normal system. It's a phase-change; other rules apply. (For you non-science geek types, a phase change is when matter changes from gas to liquid, vice versa or any number of other boundaries where you have to throw away the old rules and follow new ones.) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 98 12:07 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Ethereals and Words (was Re: IN> Stat limits) >So to your mind, would only Odin have been Superior level? I wouldn't think so, myself. But then, Uriel and his angels took on a bunch of Ethereal gods and trashed them pretty thoroughly, without much outside help that I know of. So that implies that whole pantheons weren't a match for one Superior and his followers. That suggests to me that the Ethereals were more like powerful Word-bound than Superiors in power. Of course, there's also the possiblity that Uriel weakened them first by weakening their worship, before taking them on directly. I don't think this is really described one way or the other in canon yet. >New idea...can Ethereals have Words? Even to some lesser degree? Or >would being God of Thunder simply imply that being your main area of >focus without any special status in the Symphony? I don't think they have Words in the celestial sense, but something similar. After all, Ethereals are more mutable than celestials, being subject to human dreams and thoughts. So their "Words" would change over time. Also, a lot of the Ethereals had more than one area of interest, so it doesn't make sense to confine them to a single Word. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 12:23:25 EDT From: MarkDEddy Subject: Re: IN> Name for the Songbook In a message dated 5/11/98 2:37:33 PM, Graveyard Greg wrote: >LOL! I have been counter-recommended..Wouldn't it be wild if they DID >use "Hymns of the Symphony"? > >I can just see it now... > >G.G.: Hey look! They took my suggestion! > >Innocent Bystander: Didn't you say you hated that idea? > >G.G.: GRRRRRRRRR! (fwaps Innocent Bystander with a large trout) > >Wow! That would be cool...especially the trout part! ;) > >Graveyard Greg Not another Malakite of Eli! :) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 09:43:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: Fans of the Writings of Archangel Beth (was Re: IN> Writing Canon) - ---Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Tough. I'm trying to preserve *some* mysteries, for folks to buy > when/if In Nomine fiction becomes legit. (But I *am* flattered, guys!) I understand, Beth! ;) > > If you *really* want more of my stuff, though... There's some non-In > Nomine works in _Pawprints_ -- go to my homepage (www.io.com/~arcangel) > and follow the links to order them. (Make Lynx, my friend & the editor, > happy!) > > Also, there's GURPS IOU (aka GURPS Illuminati University), which has > only a few hundred copies left -- go order yours at the www.sjgames.com > online-ordering site. It has great Phil & Kaja Foglio art in it, and > gets us royalties... > > And then there's Sword & Sorceress #7, edited by Marion Zimmer Bradley. > My first publication. It's been reprinted at least once. Go bug your > bookstore so they'll reprint it again and give me more royalties... > O;> > > And, of course, there's the IPG, with Lilim, Infernal Interventions > (which were cribbed severly from Edelstein's Divine Interventions > from the APG) and Redemption (esp. the vignette). Oh, yeah, and p. 22. > > If you subscribe to Pyramid, there's the IOU Spells and IOU Designer's > Article in back-issues (I think). There is likely to be more in the > future -- which will be more IN-related. > > If you go over to http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~maya/nomine/fiat.html, > you can see me guest-starring as an intermittant NPC (Jordan, Seraph of > Judgment with a Good View), including a brief interlude there (which has > no real plot content whatsoever, but for some reason the guy is popular > among the players, so Maya put it up) which my name is not on. > > > --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor > GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ > > > Thanks, Beth! :) Graveyard Greg _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 09:42:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Kim Foster Subject: Re: IN> Ceilings and Superiors At 11:34 AM 5/12/98 EDT, you wrote: >>I have another question on this 'superiors needing at least 18 forces' thing. >> >>Does anyone really think Saminga has Intelligence 12? ;) > >He may be an exception, or it may just be that Saminga doesn't bother to >*use* his intelligence for anything but research into making bigger and >better undead.... > >The problem with giving him a lower stat is that it will encourage PCs >to use Ethereal Charm or similar things on him, and expect it to work. >Which it probably shouldn't. > > >---Walter > > I'm new to this game and probably shouldn't comment but the idea of stating superiors sort of worries me. Giving things "stats" in my gaming experience tends to spark something in some players. The old "if it has hit points, we can kill it" mentality.l I never like seeing things like Gods given game stats even if they were high enough to make them "unbeatable" This isn't meant as an attack on anyone. I know violence doesn't solve all problems... But it sure feels good! Felicia:DS3:Vampire Savior ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 12:52:23 EDT From: MarkDEddy Subject: Re: Fans of the Writings of Archangel Beth (was Re: IN> Writing Canon) In a message dated 5/11/98 8:45:32 PM, Tom T. wrote: >> ---Shadowcat wrote: >> > I for one would like to see them, if not here, then on private >> > e-mail >> > >> > Shadowcat > >> Graveyard Greg wrote: >> Same here, Shadowcat! >> > >Add in my vote!!! [retch! another "me too" post from someone who swore >never to do it! But ArchBeth's writings are worth it, as are Redneck's, >just to name a couple off the top of my head] > >tom t. I'd like to see more In Nomine Fiction from the ArchBeth, myself, but not excerpts from the novels. I understand that it is very difficult to comply with the copyright rules for submission, and I want to be able to *buy* the Elizabeth McCoy In Nomine novels. Remember, folks, you need to think about what you're asking here... Mark(Married to a librarian author...) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 09:49:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> Horrible Conspiracy? - ---IceHeart EvenFall wrote: > > 'k. I have a pet Superior. Gabriel has always been my favorite Superior, > and the various inhabitants of the Marches were always my LEAST fav. Couls someone > point out the various good points (Redeeming features?) of The Marches? > > IceHeart, Calabim servitor of Belial Well, it DOES have Gabriel in it... :) Also, it has two minor choirs...a new Song...some new Discords...a little info on the pagan gods and ethereal spirits.. All in all, it's a good supplement. Graveyard Greg _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 12:43:34 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> An INtroduction At 10:51 AM -0400 5/12/98, crossbyte@juno.com wrote: >Now, since I've taken enough of your time, here's my point: I am looking >for help with game mechanics (I don't have any books yet) and the In >Nomine cosmos. I take it you've discovered http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine and http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles ? Both of those are quite useful... >As for a few quick questions...what are the rites? The snippets of the >books I have don't mention them, but they appear in a lot of character >sheets on the net... Rites are ways that celestials (or humans, IIRC) can gain back Essence, the energy that is used for oh-so-many-things. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 09:59:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN>Demon Prince Auditions - ---Pee Kitty wrote: > KRONOS: Doug Bradley. (Who?) He played Pinhead, in Hellraiser. Dark, > forboding, calm and collected, evil. > NYBBAS: (Preparing to duck...) Jim Carrey. (Looking around until the coast > is clear.) Yes, I said that anyone who wanted him as Dark Humor needed > their head examined; I still do. But I think he'd be a great Nybbas. He's > so FAKE. He's funny in a stupid way, and he's great at being manic, > superficial, and fast-talking. The Riddler was very close to Nybbas, IMO. > > > Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian I like the idea for Kronos... Malphas..who? Nybbas.... - --------------@ (Pee Kitty) - ------------------@ (Pee Kitty) - ---------------------@ (Pee Kitty) - ------------------------------------@ (Pee Kitty) ***SPLAT!!!*** Heh...it's all in the timing! Graveyard Greg _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 13:22:15 -0400 From: John Karakash - LUCENT ASCC Subject: Re: IN> Comics--Fluff Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > And this is pertaining to In Nomine *how*, by this point in the > thread? > > (Me, I want In Nomine XXXenophile... Seraphim in Celtic Knots!) Oooooh! Howabout a few Kyriotates. Three should be enough to make it interesting... ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #774 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.