From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon May 18 13:47:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA28433 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 13:47:04 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id NAA13492 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 13:36:30 -0500 Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:36:30 -0500 Message-Id: <199805181836.NAA13492@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #784 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, May 18 1998 Volume 01 : Number 784 In this digest: Re: IN> K.K. the Lilim Munchkin Re: IN> IRC Re: IN> K.K. the Lilim Munchkin Re: IN> K.K. the Lilim Munchkin Re: IN> K.K. the Lilim Munchkin Re: IN> Saints Re: IN> Saints Re: IN> Saints (Brigid in particular) Re: IN> Superior Slaying 101 Re: IN> K.K. the Lilim Munchkin (Re: What's the best source of info...) Re: IN> More Offing Superiors (Long) IN> Changing Words (Re: Superior Slaying 101) Re: IN> Soldiers, Undead, You know... Re: IN> Saints IN> Geases (Re: K.K. the Lilim Munchkin) Re: IN> More Offing Superiors (Long) Re: IN> In Nomine Online IN> How Superiors React to Being Hit by a Fish for the Halibut ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:49:23 EDT From: MarkDEddy Subject: Re: IN> K.K. the Lilim Munchkin In a message dated 5/18/98 12:44:39 AM, hjalkar@RedBrick.DCU.IE writes: >> If you let them. I'm not sure I'd allow Celestials to put Essence into >a >> Will roll if they didn't know they'd be asked for a Geas (which is >> likely, unless they know they're talking to a Lilim and know she's done >> them a favour). >> >The Will roll is made when the Geas is called in, not when the hook is >formed. So of course they can be stacked to make a Geas/6, making it very >difficult to resist. But they will certainly feel something changing when >a Geas is invoked, and unless ignorant of the existence of such a thing >(something extremely unlikely for Celestials) are quite likely to guess >what it is. I just realize what's been bothering me about this thread. If I'm remembering correctly, you can't stack Lilim Geasa. So 6xGeas/1 is *not* the same as 1xGeas/6. In Dark Victory, we see K. K. (Kamikaze Kitten, yes?) enforcing lots of Geas/1's on the Malakim trying to take her and Kobal out. But we don't see her able to enforce a Geas/6. > >Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. An additional US$ 0.02 Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 17:02:56 -0400 (EDT) From: EEEAMEEH Subject: Re: IN> IRC how do you get to this #innomine place? Starsurfer, Seraph of Creation in service to Destiny, Angel Of Words ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 12:06:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> K.K. the Lilim Munchkin On Mon, 18 May 1998, MarkDEddy wrote: > I just realize what's been bothering me about this thread. If I'm remembering > correctly, you can't stack Lilim Geasa. So 6xGeas/1 is *not* the same as > 1xGeas/6. In Dark Victory, we see K. K. (Kamikaze Kitten, yes?) enforcing > lots of Geas/1's on the Malakim trying to take her and Kobal out. But we don't > see her able to enforce a Geas/6. No, you can stack any Geasa. I've always wondered why the book says Lilim have 9 Geas/3s to Lilith instead of just "27 levels of Geasa" or 3 Geas/9s. Maybe a Geas/6 is the most you can call in at once...it doesn't say for sure, though. Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! And finally, a special message to \|/ ____ \|/ anyone who thinks I give a damn... ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 12:48:41 -0400 From: Kim Foster Subject: Re: IN> K.K. the Lilim Munchkin At 11:49 AM 5/18/98 EDT, you wrote: > >In a message dated 5/18/98 12:44:39 AM, hjalkar@RedBrick.DCU.IE writes: > >>> If you let them. I'm not sure I'd allow Celestials to put Essence into >>a >>> Will roll if they didn't know they'd be asked for a Geas (which is >>> likely, unless they know they're talking to a Lilim and know she's done >>> them a favour). >>> >>The Will roll is made when the Geas is called in, not when the hook is >>formed. So of course they can be stacked to make a Geas/6, making it very >>difficult to resist. But they will certainly feel something changing when >>a Geas is invoked, and unless ignorant of the existence of such a thing >>(something extremely unlikely for Celestials) are quite likely to guess >>what it is. > >I just realize what's been bothering me about this thread. If I'm remembering >correctly, you can't stack Lilim Geasa. So 6xGeas/1 is *not* the same as >1xGeas/6. In Dark Victory, we see K. K. (Kamikaze Kitten, yes?) enforcing >lots of Geas/1's on the Malakim trying to take her and Kobal out. But we don't >see her able to enforce a Geas/6. > So the will roll to resist is -1? >> >>Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. > > An additional US$ 0.02 > Mark > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 12:51:24 -0400 From: Kim Foster Subject: Re: IN> K.K. the Lilim Munchkin At 11:49 AM 5/18/98 EDT, you wrote: > >In a message dated 5/18/98 12:44:39 AM, hjalkar@RedBrick.DCU.IE writes: > >>> If you let them. I'm not sure I'd allow Celestials to put Essence into >>a >>> Will roll if they didn't know they'd be asked for a Geas (which is >>> likely, unless they know they're talking to a Lilim and know she's done >>> them a favour). >>> >>The Will roll is made when the Geas is called in, not when the hook is >>formed. So of course they can be stacked to make a Geas/6, making it very >>difficult to resist. But they will certainly feel something changing when >>a Geas is invoked, and unless ignorant of the existence of such a thing >>(something extremely unlikely for Celestials) are quite likely to guess >>what it is. > >I just realize what's been bothering me about this thread. If I'm remembering >correctly, you can't stack Lilim Geasa. So 6xGeas/1 is *not* the same as >1xGeas/6. In Dark Victory, we see K. K. (Kamikaze Kitten, yes?) enforcing >lots of Geas/1's on the Malakim trying to take her and Kobal out. But we don't >see her able to enforce a Geas/6. > >> Cool, I didn't catch that. I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm being nitpicky about this but I am trying to learn the system and fend off some potential munchkin problems. KK is an amusing character and i realize she was meant more as a joke but still I like to see if there are any ways around her. >>Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. > > An additional US$ 0.02 > Mark > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 17:20:36 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Saints On Mon, May 18, 1998 at 11:07:54AM -0400, MarkDEddy wrote: > St. Bride's cult includes (as recorded in the Carmina Gaedelica...) young > women dressing in bridal clothes, wearing crowns woven of wheat and singing > hymns to the Saint. If I'm remembering correctly, her Saint's day is May 1st, > also known as Beltane. There's more, but those are the two I can remember... > Nope. Her feast day is the 1st of February, which used to be called Imbolc, but isn't any more. Bealtaine (the pronunciation does not resemble what Beltane looks like in English in the slightest, apart from the consonants) is now the Irish for the month of May in general, and was the name of the Celtic Festival. As a feast day, it's more or less dead, from what I can see, and the only thing noteworthy that I recall of the cult is those weird crosses made of reeds (I think). Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "If you let it get too far it would be the end of everything. You would have bicycles wanting votes and they would get seats on the County Council and make the roads far worse than they are for their own ulterior motivation." The Third Policeman, by Flann O'Brien. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:17:56 -0400 From: crossbyte@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Saints >>I don't think we're talking about the same person... >> >>In Catholic tradition and records, St. Brigid/Bride of Kildare was >born >>(died?) in the year 525. The spiritual daughter of St. Patrick, she >was >>so beautiful many mistakenly believed she was the Blessed Virgin in >an >>apparition. She died at age 72, the same age as the Blessed Virgin >Mary. >>Brigid is buried in the same grave as St. Patrick and St. >Columbkille. >> >Yep, same person. Patroness of Ireland, Childbearing, and Midwives. >Known as >"The Milkmother of Christ" and "The Midwife of Mary." OK, I have heard those titles before. She was also called the "Gealic Mary" >The legends say >she was >walking in the forest outside her Abbey, when she found herself >miraculously >transported to first century Palestine (Christmas Eve, Bethlehem, >naturally) >just in time to act as the Christ Child's midwife and wetnurse. (It >seems to >be an additional miracle that she was lactating at the time...) Sounds like St. Claire of Assissi...but remember, these were not performed by her power, but her humility, resignation to the Divine Will, and Faith in God's power. >The cults of the Saints (it's the technical theological term, honest) >are the >body of lore, tradition, and ceremony which are part of the Saint's >baggage. >For instance, Green Beer is part of the US cult of St. Patrick, and >St. Joseph >being the patron of adoptive parents is part of his cult. > >St. Bride's cult includes (as recorded in the Carmina Gaedelica...) >young >women dressing in bridal clothes, wearing crowns woven of wheat and >singing >hymns to the Saint. If I'm remembering correctly, her Saint's day is >May 1st, >also known as Beltane. There's more, but those are the two I can >remember... > OK, I'm just not familliar with the term. I do a lot of Apologetics work, and trust me, terms like that make explanations to Protestans difficult... Her Feast day is Feb. 1, along with Ignatious of Layola (Source: Butler's Lives of the Saints) May 1 is the Feast of Joseph the Worker, and is also my birthday, so I knew her feast isn't then... >>BTW, What is the Carmina? >> >Carmina Gaedelica, "Incantations of the Gaels," a book cataloging the >worship >practices of the northern (Island) Scottish peoples at about the turn >of the >century. >I can neither remember the editor nor the ISBN, so I apologize Thanks anyway...that's all I needed! ...The wild truth, reeling but erect. - -G.K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy ____________________________ http://www.mrmark.com/forums/virtualireland/ http:/listen.to/rimworld/ <>< _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:11:35 -0400 From: crossbyte@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Saints (Brigid in particular) On Mon, 18 May 1998 12:44:35 +0100 Kevin Walsh writes: >On Mon, May 18, 1998 at 07:22:40AM -0400, crossbyte@juno.com wrote: >> No argument. But note that the MEANING of the holiday changed.... >> >Really? Can you specify the changes? Sure. To Christians, Christmas is the "celebrated" date of Jesus' birth (But no one knows for sure. Dec. 25 WAS originally the ceremony of the Roman Sun-god. Also Holloween and All Hollows Eve: The pagan celebration of the evil spirits and the eve of All Saints Day, November 1. >> >3) Just look at the miracles ascribed to St. Brigette. Cross >> >reference >> >this with the powers of Brigid. Kinda a similar, huh? >> >> I actually have not studied either, but I guess they might match >up...but >> remember that St. Brigid had no power; God worked through her. > >In the particular incident that I remember from my schooldays, it was >very >much a miracle on demand, if it wasn't achieved through Brigid's >power. >The scenario was that she wanted land to build a church/convent. The >local >lord wouldn't give it to her. She asked could she have as much land as >was >covered by her cloak? The lord said fine. So when she put her cloak on >the >ground, it expanded, and continued expanding until it covered several >acres of farmland. This is clearly a manifestation of godlike or >Godlike >power, and there is no indication that I remember that she prayed in >order >to achieve this effect, or that there was any preparation for it at >all. >And even if there was, it's a rather excessive action on God's part >just >in order to get land for a church. Nothing is impossible for God. Besides, we could say it was a "bit excessive" for God to become man, and to suffer all He did for a bunch of measly, rebellious, and faithless people like us. It would not have taken any preparation on Bridgid's part...if the Lord (God) wanted the church, He would have A) told Brigid then she B) had faith that the Lord would support her when she talked to the lord. Who knows? This kind of thing occurs quite often in Catholic history, especially concerning the building of Churches. "It is your faith that has cured you" As I said in my introduction, I am working on my own RPG of angels and demons...Humility and Faith, the two major marks of the Saints, are the celestial attributes, and this is one of my disagreement with In Nomine... ...The wild truth, reeling but erect. - -G.K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy ____________________________ http://www.mrmark.com/forums/virtualireland/ http:/listen.to/rimworld/ <>< _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 12:46:30 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Superior Slaying 101 At 11:54 AM -0500 5/15/98, Martin Leslie Leuschen wrote: >> From: Elizabeth McCoy >> Subject: Re: IN> Offing Superiours >> >They can successfully infiltrate the Rouge Xenocidal Cidi Death fleet, >> >even though crack Space Patrol agents have failed. >> >> I want to watch this, considering that Cidi are sentient hamsters... >> of slightly-larger-than-hamster-but-not-much size. > >I consider myself officially bonked for making cheezy GURPS Space >in-jokes on the IN list. Sorry all. (I *still* want to watch it, I do I do... Mind you, *our* Cidi have a racial secret, which only the PCs know: they're allied with a bunch of rogue Kaa (who are apparently tolerably nice guys, despite the rest of the Kaa Empire).) GURPS digression officiall over.) >> Well, think of Call of Cthulhu. Do the PCs read Things Man Was Not >> Meant To Read without making SAN checks (and losing it)? Do they >> kill Cthulhu? > >Thankfully, IN is not CoC. (And vice versa - although being a servitor >of Cthulhu might be . . . interesting...) Ah, but the point is that, in CoC, PCs have certain constraints on their abilities. They also, from what I gather, tend to go mad and/or die a lot. They can never kill Cthulhu, they can only stave off a little of the nastiness... That's part of the experience of playing CoC, apparently. You play in that, you agree to certain aspects of the gameworld. If you play canon IN, you agree to certain aspects of the gameworld. One of those aspects is that Superiors are just a quantum powerjump above you, and killing them is not a matter of walking up and whacking them with your flaming sword... >> Hey, anyone wants to play IN Out Of Canon, *go* for it! Tell >> me how it went! But I'll argue canon because I happen to like it... > >Canonophilia/3. -9 pts Only level 3? Get serious. Level 6 at least. >> >Wow. It was like skipping through alpine meadows, then being >> >slapped with a halibut. :> >> >> Just for the halibut... *ahem* Sorry. Lost a bet with Kobal, have to >> say things like that sometimes? (And a tip of the hat to ehp.) > >*Never* bet with Kobal. (ehp?) I know, I know! (ehp is Evan? The GM for an IN PBEM I've been lurking on. That comment has cropped up at least once.) >>>But it is canon that Superiors *can* kill each other, *without* >>>destroying the dead celestial's Word. >> >>Yup. Of course, those are Superiors and Superiors. They have those >>boatloads of Power to throw around. Mind you, only Sloth and Oblivion >>seem to have been killed without pyrotechnics, and *maybe* Vephar. > >My point was that if the Superior *is literally* some aspect of the >Symphony, as you wrote, killing them should kill that aspect. Think of the Superior as a smaller part of a whole. You can kill off Vephar, Prince of the Sea, and what you have left is... The sea. A bunch of water. The theme is weakened, slightly. >> >(Q: Are non-Superior worded celestials in the same boat? ) >> >> Not quite -- they haven't made that state-change. They're much >> easier to toast. > >So they aren't literally their Word like Superiors are? In my vague opinion (which may or may not turn canon, but you can guess which way I'll argue when the time comes), not as much so, no. >> tacit assistance of your own Superior...). You need to plot and plan >> and take advantage of luck, and it may take *centuries*. > >I don't think I can keep my players interested that long. :) Oh, you're just not trying hard enough!! O;> >> It's not epic if all you need to do is play video game "I take out the >> servitors, I take out the Knight, I take out the Baron, I take out the >> Duke, I take out the Prince." > >Although this is kinda sick, that sounds like a neat videogame. The >graphics could be awesome. >:^) You're sick, definitely. What's the difference between that and any other "kill 'em all" vidgame? >> >BTW - why does anyone confronting a Superior have to be a hotshot? >> >> Because only a hotshot overconfident person would *confront* a >> Superior in a snit.? > >Or a Malakim. Or a truly deparate being who had nothing to lose. Or a >Michealite. Or perhaps a very powerful, very well-prepared, very careful >indivdual who thinks they have a way to win, and a good reason to risk >it. There are plenty of other reasons. If they're not a hotshot, they'll probably die. Canonically. >> >Jean may be crackling with the essential energies of the universe but if he >> >is summoned to a rubberised stone chamber far away from any power supplies >> >when he was already reeling from a nasty bout with Vapula's raygun ... and >> >then bound into a shard of glass... I don't think he would be laughing. >> >> True. It probably wouldn't hold him *long*, but it could be >> *very* annoying. > >This is where I differ. If my players pulled off a dangerous, cool and >involved plan like that, I'd let them trap the AA. Permanently? I'd wonder, I'd really wonder. (I'd also wonder if they'd manage to outsmart that particular Superior, but there's always Saminga...) >> There are ways to take out Superiors, sure. But they aren't going >> to be simple straightforward knock-'em-down fights between the >> Superior and the PCs. > >Ruins the climax, especially for combative types. :( If they want to play canonical In Nomine... Well, tough cookies for them. At 12:57 PM -0500 5/15/98, Martin Leslie Leuschen wrote: >> From: David Edelstein >> Subject: IN> Offing Superiors >> >> If the Superior bothers to hunt them down personally....but every Superior >> has scads of lesser Servitors of other Superiors doing things to harrass >> and weaken it. If they personally hunted down everyone who stings them, >> they'd be spending all their time squashing small fry. > > This trivializes everything the PCs do. It only works if >their greatest deeds are average or sub-par. Hey, there's a world of difference between, "Not World Spanning Deeds" and "Trivial." Heck, look at the (likely fictional) example of the guy throwing starfish back into the ocean, when they were stranded by a very high tide. "You can't possibly throw them all back in before they die. You can only throw a few. You can't possibly make a difference." "I made a difference to that one." (Which is, by the way, a very Destiny Servitor sort of thing to say. Or Dreams, or Flowers. Or even Fire in a strange sort of way.) There is also a world of difference between a group of PCs who start small to harass a Superior, and over the course of game-decades (or more), work up to power where they might have a chance -- having weakened the Superior, having built up their own power, perhaps being just shy of getting elevated to Superiors themselves. Epic campaign to destroy a Superior, that's one thing... Walk up and hit Superior with a fish for the halibut is another. O;> >What stops "Superior Ambush?" I.e. the angry Superior has a Servitor summon >him in front of the PCs, squicks them, then leaves? Not much, so don't get noticed by the other guy's Servitors, and if you do, RUN if you can't engage them in distracting combat within a round or two. (Why *did* the PCs let the captured demon have 10 seconds to invoke Vapula?? Yeesh.) In some future fiction that's running around in my head, this is exactly what's likely to happen around a certain redeemed ex-Servitor of the Game. There are certain reasons why she will have a tendency to Smite demons first and ask who their Prince is after. (And the other reason is that she's not really sane -- but Gabriel doesn't ask for sane, she asks for passion.) And instafry for PCs is somewhat rare. If you're quick and lucky and don't hang around *talking*, then you may survive. (Fall on your own sword and wake up next to your Heart after Trauma. It's better than getting caught by a Prince...) Or have one silly hotshot feint around and try to distract the Prince for a couple of rounds while someone else yells for HELP from their Superior. >> Because they are Superiors, and anyone who confronts a Superior should be >> pretty dang awesome themselves. I can't imagine where you get the idea that >> average PCs should be capable of taking on an Archangel or a Prince. If >> they can, it trivializes Superiors. > >On the contrary, it makes them more awesome. "Yes, you could probably >kill Baal if a bunch of you gang up on him, sure. No one has in the >millenia he's been a DP. Think about that before you try it." PCs? Think? Dang, I knew there was something we were supposed to be doing when we were gaming the other day... O;> [IN is like a fantasy game with interventionist gods] >Where everyone is a cleric powerful enough to summon their God without >extrordinary effort. Players talk to their Superior fairly regularly, With the exception of Judgment and the Game, this should actually be vaguely *rare* -- note the universal invocation modifiers, where not summoning your boss for a year gives you a +1, because he knows you don't call him unless it's *urgent*. Standard disclaimers about If You Want To Play Outside Of Canon Go Ahead. A "Large Fry" game might even be interesting, though it would quickly head off into *being* Superiors and doing tactics over the worldmap and telling your Servitors what to do... (Which has its own amusements -- sometimes I and spouse will freeform the soap opera which is the life of Superiors...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 12:36:30 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> K.K. the Lilim Munchkin (Re: What's the best source of info...) At 3:47 PM -0700 5/14/98, Kim Foster wrote: >At 06:12 PM 5/14/98 -0400, you wrote: >> >>>>>>> (You sense the Need...to kill you.) >>>>>> See K.K., Lilim of Dark Humor, on the INC, for an answer to that. :) >>http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles -- go to the Rogue's >>Gallary, thence to the demons, etc. >>So what does the Malakite do? Kill the demon who murmurs, "Okay, you >>owe me now?" or stand by and take dissonance? Catch-22. > >Well, they could get someone else to kill them, servants or otherwise (Do >not suffer an evil to live doesn't mean you have to whack it personally IMHO >or that you have to do it -right that moment-) True enough. On the other hand... What if she sees the Need for her to be dead, and does the deed herself. Woops. >or suck up the dissonance and try to explain. K.K. and Kobal think this is amusing too. O;> (Mind, I eventually decided she should be saddled with a Laurencian Malakite who fought with her once and has Hunt -- so as she roams about the world, eventually this very upright and proper Malakite shows up and does away with her somehow. I'm thinking he's specially crafted so that she can't hook him easily, and has a Will to equal her own. I need to create him. I can just see them sharing ice cream in the mall (too many people to just slay her) and him writing poetry to her.) >And geaa are a visible discord. Dissonace can be worked off or removed. How >many Superiors want there Malakim bound by a lilm and if she's been pulling >this stunt for a long time...... Geas-*hooks* aren't visible (in canon-to-be-published), and it is true that dissonance is preferable. (So, of course, as soon as too many of them start saying, "No, I'm not going to kill you, you're making it too easy," all the *other* demons start pretending to be her. Vicious Cycle! >>>>Mind you, just because K.K. is a plausible legal character doesn't >>>>mean any sane GM would want to accept her into their game... That bears repeating. K.K. is intended as an NPC at *best*, to drive PCs crazy. >>>or >>>just shooting her from distance away where she couldn't make eye contact? >>>With 1 Corporreal force, you could safely set your any sevants on her.... >> >>Yup! You can do that. If you know who she is *this* time. "So the >>boss gave me this dog of a vessel -- woof, I say, woof!" (But she might >>ensnare your servant(s), too.) > >Well she's the dog the causes disturbance and has target painted on it and >like staring contests. :D Hee hee hee! Yes, well. She only causes disturbances if she harms something (and with Strength 2, this is pretty rare...), and she doesn't need to stare *too* much. (Stare and growl. How is this different from any other scruffy stray?) >Seriously though, the Malakim Resonance makes for a great Demon detector and >not just on a check digit of 6 for Bals. The (dis)honorable actions you can >pick up can give you a MAJOR hint of who's who. This is true, yes. Of course, if she's an NPC, the PC Malakite then has to decide what to *do* with her. >>>I'm pretty new to this game but this just seems to cheap to beleived and any >>>lilm can pull it off just not as optimally as K.K. >> >>Heh heh heh. Yes. Be careful killing the little green floozies. > >That is one of things about In Nomine that irks me. its way to easy to pull >stuff like this and I have to wonder (for example) why isn't every Malakim >bound down to every Lilm they every fought and looked in the eyes. >Exxagerated, I know, but still a valid question I think. Not all Lilim are Perception 12. Not all Needs seen are the correct one. Not all Lilim manage to CelSong of Charm their target, and sensible Malakim spend Essence resisting a Geasing attempt, so that the Lilim takes dissonance and is then chopped up again. Or just wear those cool sunglasses! At 4:06 AM +0100 5/17/98, Steve Jessop wrote: >On Thu, 14 May 1998, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >> Heh heh heh. Yes. Be careful killing the little green floozies. > >Sorry if this is a Well Known Fact, but has anyone else noticed that the >Lilim of Haagenti in fact rule the universe by now? They find out what >restaurants the local celestials like, sneak in with a job as chef, and >start gathering those Geas/2. Three days later... Geas/6! Or save for a >few years and hit 'em with the old Geas/648: "Kick Dominic up the arse". Thank the stars, you can only get up to Geas/6. (Unless you're Lilith, and even that's a maybe.) But yes, Lilim of Haagenti are quite entertainingly powerful. >Finally, where does Eli eat? Where-ever they let *him* do the cooking? At 8:58 PM -0700 5/16/98, Kim Foster wrote: >A post to this reminded me . The target of a Lilm gets a Will roll to resist >the Geas right? When it is invoked, yes. >How does KK snag so many Celestials? Celestial Song of Charm. When you have the Will of a rutabaga, it's sometimes hard to resist being geased. Mind you, sometimes *that* doesn't work either. (Another reason Lilim don't rule Heaven with this trick.) (And I think I'm going to remove Possession from her character sheet and replace with Affinity, so that she turns into a Malakite Tracker.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:57:40 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> More Offing Superiors (Long) At 12:38 PM +0200 5/15/98, Anders Gabrielsson wrote: >On Thu, 14 May 1998, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> At 10:53 AM +0100 5/14/98, Hart, Joanna wrote: >> >> Jean may be crackling with the essential energies of the universe but if he >> is summoned to a rubberised stone chamber far away from any power supplies >> when he was already reeling from a nasty bout with Vapula's raygun ... and >> then bound into a shard of glass... I don't think he would be laughing. >> >> True. It probably wouldn't hold him *long*, but it could be >>*very* annoying. (Of course, Jean wouldn't laugh anyway unless it was >>either necessary or wholly un-important.) > >I always thought that when you summoned a Superior, you just got "part" of >them - they can be in several places at once, right? So even if you >managed to get it to a nasty place and kick the stuffing out of it, it >would still be around... Well, for the sake of the arguement, I was thinking it would be like a Force Catcher/[infinity], to suck *all* the instantiations of a Superior in... But yes, Superiors canonly multitask. (And Kyrio Superiors do it even better.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 12:30:03 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Changing Words (Re: Superior Slaying 101) At 9:14 PM +0900 5/16/98, Simon Hailes wrote: >At 07:57 AM 16/05/98 -0400, you wrote: >>>My point was that if the Superior *is literally* some aspect of the >>Symphony, as you wrote, killing them should kill that aspect.< >> >>It would be more accurate to say that a Superior is the literal embodiment >>of some aspect of the Symphony. Obviously, Sloth still exists despite the >>death of its Prince, and Knowledge still exists despite the death of >>Raphael. You can't kill a _concept_. But those concepts that do have >>celestial embodiments lend power to the embodiments...so if you are up >>against Saminga, you're not just up against a Shedite with lots and lots of >>Forces, you're up against a Shedite who is Death incarnate, and his might >>is equal to the power of Death in the world....[...] >> > Oh yeah, about that whole Word changing discussion, though undoubtedly >this has already beeen said, canonically words can be changed, IPG says so. Words can be changed. However, here's an interesting question -- can a *Superior's* Word be changed? Hm. Maybe this is why Legion *wasn't* stripped of his Word and rank as Prince, forcing all the other Superiors to gang up on him. Maybe this is why the Renegade Prince of Plagues (or Disease, I sometimes forget which was the final translation prefered) had to be taken out by Dominic and Asmodeus working together... Maybe Lucifer *can't* strip a Prince of rank (can only elevate them to that rank). Maybe he *can't* removed the Word of a Superior. Maybe the Seraphim Council is equally unable to do those things. Hmmmm. Perhaps that quantum state-change from "normal" to "Superior" fixes the Word within the celestial forever. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 12:24:17 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Soldiers, Undead, You know... At 8:33 AM -0400 5/16/98, Gruzzle wrote: >Question: > The in-nomine book isn't very clear at all when it comes to soldiers and >undead. Can anyone tell me what songs, attunements, distinctions, skills, etc. >etc. a soldier can and can't learn? Normal Soldiers only get Corporeal Songs. Those who serve an entity with an *enormous* connection to the ethereal realm may be granted Ethereal Songs as well (Beleth, Blandine, ethereal gods). Those who have been very much altered (Saints and Undead) can use celestial. If you want the reasoning behind all of this in gameworld terms, ask... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:30:54 -0400 From: crossbyte@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Saints >> St. Bride's cult includes (as recorded in the Carmina Gaedelica...) >young >> women dressing in bridal clothes, wearing crowns woven of wheat and >singing >> hymns to the Saint. If I'm remembering correctly, her Saint's day is >May 1st, >> also known as Beltane. There's more, but those are the two I can >remember... >> >Nope. Her feast day is the 1st of February, which used to be called >Imbolc, but isn't any more. Bealtaine (the pronunciation does not >resemble what Beltane looks like in English in the slightest, apart >from >the consonants) is now the Irish for the month of May in general, and >was >the name of the Celtic Festival. As a feast day, it's more or less >dead, >from what I can see, and the only thing noteworthy that I recall of >the >cult is those weird crosses made of reeds (I think). Come to think of it, most feast days of Saints are seldom celebrated, except in the countries in which they are Patron of. One exception is St. Patricks day, but realize there are at least 2-3 Saints per day that have their feast on a particular day... ie, St. Peter and St. Paul have feasts on June 29 (I think) ...The wild truth, reeling but erect. - -G.K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy ____________________________ http://www.mrmark.com/forums/virtualireland/ http:/listen.to/rimworld/ <>< _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:53:15 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Geases (Re: K.K. the Lilim Munchkin) At 12:06 PM -0400 5/18/98, Pee Kitty wrote: >On Mon, 18 May 1998, MarkDEddy wrote: > >> I just realize what's been bothering me about this thread. If I'm remembering >> correctly, you can't stack Lilim Geasa. So 6xGeas/1 is *not* the same as >> 1xGeas/6. In Dark Victory, we see K. K. (Kamikaze Kitten, yes?) enforcing >> lots of Geas/1's on the Malakim trying to take her and Kobal out. But we don't >> see her able to enforce a Geas/6. > >No, you can stack any Geasa. I've always wondered why the book says Lilim >have 9 Geas/3s to Lilith instead of just "27 levels of Geasa" or 3 >Geas/9s. Maybe a Geas/6 is the most you can call in at once...it doesn't >say for sure, though. A Geas/6 is the most you can call in at once (unless you're Lilith, who smiles and won't say if she can do more). A Geas-hook (all those little favors, *before* you actually try to invoke it) can definitely be stacked. A sworn Geas (that you can't make any rolls to resist), it is possible, may *not* be stackable -- but that adds complexity, so it's easier just to stack everything. However, as a house-rule, maybe only the hooks can be stacked. (But when those hooks are called in, if you've gotten 6 Geas/1's, the Will roll is at -6.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:46:31 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> More Offing Superiors (Long) Some time back, one reason gived for wanting Superiors to be off-able was that, otherwise, PCs were negligible pawns. This strikes me as a somewhat drastic view of what it takes to be significant. Also, it seems to forget that IN is conceived as a game where the PCs typcially start as VERY powerful creatures -- compared to the mortals that are their usual concern. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 14:01:58 -0400 From: Robb Kidd Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Online Scott Weber wrote: > [...] I personally would be very, very upset at > such an > outrageous marketing ploy. That alone would probably be enough for me to > just say, "stuff it," and not even bother with the game at all anymore, > because to me, that's akin to walking into someone's house and breaking up > their tabletop game because only the publishing company is allowed to host > it. MUSHing tends to be vital to those of us small-towners who can't stir > up the interest for local group tabletop or live-action roleplaying. But M**ing is slightly different than running a game online (in IRC or a PBEm). With those other online gaming routes left open, the M** factor is not quite as "vital". ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:21:06 -0500 (CDT) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: IN> How Superiors React to Being Hit by a Fish for the Halibut If you hit them with a fish, just for the halibut... ANDREALPHUS will smile and say, "Oooh, you kinky tart! Do that again!" ASMODEUS will sentence you to scaling fish for Haagenti's favorite seafood restraunt in Shal-Mari for a few decades. BAAL will compliment you on your courage and ask for another demonstration in the center of Gehenna. BELETH will replay every JAWS movie ever made -except- the original in your dreams until you go insane or turn into Mike Nelson, whichever comes first. BELIAL will hold a fish fry, beginning at your elbow. HAAGENTI will eat the fish, beginning at your elbow. KOBAL will autograph the fish. KRONOS will suggest you try the stunt on Asmodeus next. LILITH will grin, say 'You owe me,' and send you off to do the same thing to Laurence. MALPHAS will look wounded and ask why you would slap the best friend you have in the world, when there are so many others who really -deserve- a slap with a fish. NYBBAS will point out that fish-slapping went out with Monty Python and reassign you to subtitling Hong Kong movies for a few years until you get your current trends straight. SAMINGA will just stare at you idiotically for a moment or two before scattering your Forces to the winds. VALEFOR will nick the fish before you can follow through on the swing. VAPULA will take the fish and spend the next few days devising a Vorpal Trout. BLANDINE won't say anything, but that night you will have a very frank and humiliating talk with a stern-faced guppy. DAVID will smile, take the fish, and say, "My turn now." DOMINIC will strip you back down to Reliever level and let you meditate on the evil of your actions while you slowly grow back up. ELI will blink, shrug, and reconsider offering you a beer. GABRIEL (flip a coin) * will shake her head, smile kindly, and say, "Thanks. I needed that." or * will scream in rage, incinerate the fish, and use your Vessel to light a few bonfires. JANUS will probably offer you an Attunement. JEAN will look at you as if you'd sprouted another head and say, "Who told you to do that?" JORDI will eat the fish, and then you for wasting a meal on a human joke. LAURENCE will say in a quiet angry voice that he chooses broadswords as his weapon and he will see you and your second at dawn. MARC will smile and make a mental note to double the price the next time you need a favor from him or his Servitors. MICHAEL will pound you into a greasy spot and then invite you to do it again the next time you want to see just how strong you -really- are. NOVALIS... well, you just can't hit Novalis with a fish. She's just too sweet. and Yves... YVES will chuckle and point out that Destiny usually does not include assault with seafood.... but your future probably does, if you make a habit of it. - --- Redneck Kris Overstreet, web pages beyond belief http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck - Redneck Gaijin Online http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ - White Lightning Productions http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/dvpbem/ - In Nomine: Dark Victory PBEM http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/milkmaid/ - The Magnificent Milkmaid ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #784 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.